Sanford ups ante on port rail line
300 stage rally in North Charleston against legislative effort
By Schuyler Kropf
Gov. Mark Sanford on Tuesday vetoed the Legislature's effort to open the northern end of the former Navy base to railroad lines, while more than 300 North Charleston residents met in solidarity to say they won't accept their city being re-industrialized.
The Post and Courier
Residents hold up signs in support of North Charleston Mayor Keith Summey and the City Council at a Rally for Home Rule and against a rail line at the north end of the old Navy base.
"We will fight to the very end," Mayor Keith Summey told sign-waving residents stuffed into a Park Circle meeting room. "We've got some very powerful people in the state of South Carolina trying to run roughshod over us," he added.
Summey told the crowd he expects the governor's veto to be overridden today or Thursday by lawmakers pushing to bring rail lines closer to a new port terminal being built at the base's south end. But there is a value in such a vote, city officials contend, because it will put legislators on record as either supporting or going against North Charleston's position that rail lines are unacceptable.
Sanford's veto struck down a proviso to the state budget that would have required that all railroad tracks, structures and equipment on the old base be transferred to the Division of Public Railways, a part of the Department of Commerce.
Lawmakers who support the proviso say it is needed because it would boost access to the new terminal being built at the base's southern end for both of the region's major rail carriers, CSX and Norfolk Southern.
North Charleston officials, meanwhile, say rail lines would gut years of redevelopment in neighborhoods around the former Navy shipyard.
Sanford vetoed the measure, saying it undermined a seven-year-old memorandum of understanding linking the State Ports Authority and North Charleston in an agreement that there would be no railroad access on the northern end.
"The principle here is a simple one: Your word is your bond, and this proviso would break with the words given that facilitated the SPA move from Daniel Island to North Charleston," he said.
The Post and Courier
'We've got some very powerful people in the state of South Carolina trying to run roughshod over us,' North Charleston Mayor Keith Summey told a crowd gathered to protest proposed rail lines.
"Were it not for that agreement, the port would likely have never come to this site in the first place. It isn't right to some years later try and change the deal that got you where you are," he said.
Sanford went on to call the agreement "sloppily arranged" from a legal standpoint, contending that the SPA had no legal authority to bind the Department of Commerce, the Division of Public Railways or other areas of state government.
But he added that a sloppy arrangement "does not change the spirit of the agreement," particularly since lawmakers who were present during the memorandum debate years ago are party to the proviso to change it. He specifically named Senate Finance Chairman Hugh Leatherman and Senate leader Glenn F. McConnell, R-Charleston.
Sanford's veto message also included a suggestion that all the players continue to negotiate a good faith rail- access solution, saying rail line through the northern part of the base would best suit both state taxpayers and business interests.
"From a business perspective, northern access probably makes the most sense and is, therefore, important for the way it could enhance the new port terminal and lower the cost of doing business in the port," he said.
Previous story
Summey plans protest rally, published 05/19/09
North Charleston officials contest that point.
"From a taxpayer standpoint, we also think it makes the most sense to use what we have in the old Navy Base to create a world-class port operation," Sanford added.
Another factor in his veto, Sanford said, is that he doubted the Division of Public Railways could enter into a "public-private" partnership for operating an intermodal facility on property obtained through condemnation, as the proviso potentially directs.
Meanwhile, there were signs late Tuesday that the rail effort was beginning to slow down with the winding down of the session. Sen. Larry Grooms, R-Bonneau, said he plans to scale back wording on the rail issue inserted in a separate pending piece of legislation to restructure the SPA.
Originally, the legislation called for the transfer of ownership of rail lines and a right of way at the north end of the base. The language in the bill mimicked the provision in the budget. Now, in the two remaining days of the legislative session, Grooms said he wants the bill to simply refuse any transfers of rail ownership without the approval of the Budget and Control Board.
Grooms said the ownership and access issue already is at the heart of a pending court case over land on the Navy base, and it is best to step back and let the suit play out.
Meanwhile, Grooms said he expects the Senate will uphold Sanford's veto of the budget provision, potentially halting the drive to settle the rail question quickly.
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Comments
iceman1978 (anonymous) says...
"Gov. Mark Sanford on Tuesday vetoed the Legislature's effort to open the northern end of the former Navy base to railroad lines, while more than 300 North Charleston residents met in solidarity to say they won't accept their city being re-industrialized."
Re-industrialized? This would be a bad thing for what reason????
Outsourcing and a loss of the manufacturing base is part of what got us into this mess we're in. You can't expect to be a major power with a world-class economy when you've got the equivalent of a coffee plantation mentality, which is largely what millions of jobs in the service sector equate to. Think of what would happen if we were to lose Westvaco, or if Greenville lost the BMW plant. You think by building a few more strip malls and a super Wal-Mart that it would make up for it? Think again.
N Charleston has a high crime rate and, like the rest of the nation, rising unemployment. Re-industrialization sounds pretty good right now.
May 20, 2009 at 12:59 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
sardis12 (anonymous) says...
This is a first, let me mark my calendar, Mark Sanford actually did something I agree with...
Re-industrialization is a good thing, but the rail lines don't need to run right into an area that is being zoned for residential and light commercial use. These agreements were made a long time ago, the city planned development around them, and the SPA just can't come in and ignore those terms now. Unless, of course, they want to pay millions in damages.
Westvaco and BMW weren't just plopped down in the middle of a residential area. If that's such a great idea, why not run the rails through Daniel Island, where they were supposed to go to begin with?
May 20, 2009 at 1:21 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
eyecantspel (anonymous) says...
Its hard to believe the first 2 commenters read the story, but that is not the only thing wrong with this story.
Top Ten Reasons Why This Story Doesn't Make Sense....
1. Keith Summey thinks its a bad idea, therefore, its a good idea. But.... Mark Sanford thinks its a bad idea, therefore, its IS a bad idea. I think a hole has been ripped in the fabric of time and we are sinking into a black hole.
2. Why does North Cracktown want to stop growth? They should have a first hand understanding growth is needed... and not just in the "gang services" job market.
3. A few NCers come out to protest, not Keith Summey, not the current state of their town, but they come out to protest progress. God bless America, and keep the checks coming.
4. The reporter failed to mention NC's new city slogan, "Disneyland for Meth Heads"
5. There are 500 train tracks in NC and Goose Crick. None of these go to Santee? None?
6. A overseas company wants to invest 100s of million (maybe a billion long term) into SC and create 1000's of jobs. I think that should just about sum this up for those of you on the fence.
7. I know its early in this "process", but lets get something straight, NC is shaking us down here right? I mean, are we really going to just let this company leave because of NC not wanting an extra railroad? Adding a railroad to NC is like adding a gang to Remount, I doubt anyone would really notice.
8. North C should be upset because of how well things have progressed at the old Navy base. It is a beautiful, problem free area that was finished in time and under budget an has become the jewel.... wait.. I can't even finish this one. Its a dump.
9. Of all the problems in North Charleston, this is the one that is the biggest deal. This would be like Pres Obama devoting his entire day to selecting his tie.
10. Sanford gives well thought out, logical reasons for his actions. He would rather do what is right than what is popular that day. Why do people not like him?
May 20, 2009 at 1:59 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
justjerry (anonymous) says...
eyecantspel - please do some research on the issue before you bash the opinions of the residents of the City of North Charleston. No one has said that the city will not accept rail or the port in North Charleston. What has been said repeatedly is that the rail needs to come through the South end of the base and utilize the Promenade and Macalloy sites to build it. Running rail through the North end of the base would be anything but progress, especially given the amount of damage it would do to what has occurred already and will continue to occur as long as the state follows it's word and does not run rail through it.
May 20, 2009 at 2:23 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
eyecantspel (anonymous) says...
I didn't read the story because it was boring and had too many big words. I will try to do better next time. Of all of the places you mentioned, I have no idea where any of them are.
May 20, 2009 at 3:28 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
karmann (anonymous) says...
I wish Mayor Summey had this much passion for the failing schools locted in North Charleston and have a rally pushing for CCSD to make actual changes.
May 20, 2009 at 6:11 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
WhoCares (anonymous) says...
What the story didn't say is far more important than what it did say. What it didn't say is that there is ALREADY a rail line running through North Charleston onto the north end of the old Navy base. What the story didn't say is that the ONLY major change that service through the north-end to the south-end would entail would be building a NEW rail yard in an EXISTING North Charleston neighborhood, namely the Chicora-Cherokee neighborhood. Now anyone familiar with Chicora-Cherokee knows that it is not only the MOST dangerous and crime-ridden neighborhood in South Carolina, but one of the WORST in the ENTIRE country! So, please, tell me again what would be so terrible about razing Chicora-Cherokee and building a rail yard??? And please spare me the comments about uprooting families... there are no families there, only unwed (welfare) mothers, drunks, drug addicts and gangs!!
I say build the railyard!!
May 20, 2009 at 6:22 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
moonpie (anonymous) says...
"North Charleston officials, meanwhile, say rail lines would gut years of redevelopment in neighborhoods around the former Navy shipyard."
HAHAHAHAH WHERE? MAKE THEM SHOW YOU WHERE THIS IS, I SURE HAVEN'T SEEN IT. IF YOUR TALKING ABOUT SUMMEYS LITTLE STREET IN THE HOOD HE LIVES ON, MIXSON, OR THE WATER FRONT PARK, THEIR NOT ON THE BASE SIR. HAS ANYONE CHECKED WITH THE BUSINESS PEOPLE ON THE BASE TO SEE IF THIS WOULD BENEFIT THEM? THEY MAKE UP THE BASE POPULATION AND I BET IT WOULD HELP THEM NOT HINDER THEM. SEN GROOMS IS RUNNING FOR GOV BY THE WAY. OF COURSE HE HAS TO FLIP FLOP.
May 20, 2009 at 6:25 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
MP (anonymous) says...
Summey is not responsible for the schools. Noisette and others agreed not to build the rail line in exchange for being allowed to buy and develop the old navy base. Now the others want to renege on the deal. Sanford did exactly what he should have,
May 20, 2009 at 6:27 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
moonpie (anonymous) says...
EYE that was great by the way. I am amazed this morning at the literary talent of my fellow posters. Well done to all. WHOCARES you know what's coming to you... You will be labeled a racist pig by noon. Even though you speak the truth.
Summey is only for "growth" if it means annexing a neighborhood that NC has no connection too, IE Popular Grove or what ever it's called, The Oaks subdivision in GC, or any other instant tax base he can grab up.
THE OLD NAVY BASE IS STILL A DUMP 20 YRS AFTER IT CLOSED. THERE IS NO RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT GOING ON. IF YOU HAVE BEEN PAYING ATTENTION TO LOCAL REAL ESTATE TRENDS, YOU HAVE MISSED THE BOAT!
May 20, 2009 at 6:33 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
zoomru (anonymous) says...
LOL......LOL !!!!
Well, citizens, we wonder how many of these fine citizens out of 300 are TRUCKERS...??? I respect TRUCKERS for the service they provide and the )*&^) they have to put up with on the highways. We know that they do NOT want more truckers on I-26 than we have right now. Geez?
We wonder what the fine citizens in Walhalla or Cowpens or Lancaster or Woodruff or Irmo or Lexington or O-burg or ANYWHERE in our state think about 300 mis-informed citizens being used as PAWNS by Lawyers on both sides of the issue to do .....what? The original "promise" written on some napkin was meant to be BROKEN....all along!! The ramifications of Mayor Summey's stunts on other RAIL issues in the state is leaving all SC taxpayers out to dry.
Glenn McConnell...........pick up the phone and call WHO down in Savannah..??? Also, while your dialing, call Mr. Georgetown and go over WHAT plans..???
Mr. Lonnie Carter.......tickle your keypad also and let the girl at Kinder-Morgan know that you need to reserve the "Medium" conference Room.....!!!!
Workers at Sanders Brothers..........gather near the snack machine and have a refreshing conversation and determine which one of you need to have firm words ...??? Think real thorough and cover all possibilities..!?
MAYOR Summey.....we see you smilin'. At least your showing some SPUNK for the 50K credenza set....!!!
We are fed ....UP !!
May 20, 2009 at 6:37 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
zoomru (anonymous) says...
MARK SANFORD..........
We see you smilin' too.......!! You hit Harrell and FORD and GLENN and WHO......right between their eyes by using this rightful VetO....!!! These shenanigans by the "Lawyer Gang" is unbecoming an honorable SC citizen....!!!! For FORD to think he can sashe' into primary season and NOT say one thing about the COAL Pimpin' or the PORt Fiasco will be the NAILS in his political coffin.!!! How are fine citizens able to rightfully VOTE for Ford when he is CASPER on every major Issue that has statewide ramifications....!?!? Hmmmmm.....it is rather interesting that Mr. DARBY or Scott has NOT been mentioned or ....WHAT ??
Mark.....get LOUDER..... NOW !!!!!!!
May 20, 2009 at 6:47 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
justjerry (anonymous) says...
Moonpie you are, pardon the pun, so far off base it is not even funny. The entire Park Circle area has been booming for the last 5 years with businesses moving in and prospering both in the commercial district and on the old Nave Base. The residential property value is relatively high for the Charleston area and has actually held on during the current downturn. Their are more civilian employees on the base now than there were when the shipyard was still there. Running rail through the middle of the business development that has happened on the Navy base would not only cripple those businesses it would also destroy years of work and investment by individuals, businesses and governments to redevelop this area. The Waterfront park is also right in the middle of this - not sure why you think it isn't - and would also be essentially ruined.
All the Mayor and the citizens of North Charleston are asking for is to have rail run through the South end of the base where there is plenty of industrial land and little impact on existing redevelopment efforts. This is what was promised to the city by the SPA by virtue of a state decree and the attempt now is to take it away. This is not to stop the port or kill the jobs, this is to have the SPA do what they originally said they were going to do which was the impetus for very large investments and long term planning. Why this is so hard for folks who do not live in the area to understand is beyond me.
May 20, 2009 at 7:01 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
speedygirl2000 (anonymous) says...
Did anyone that has posted on this subject go to last night's rally in North Charleston at Park Circle???
I did!!! The point that is being made is YES the north end of the old navy base does have a rail line BUT what was not said in this poorly written article is: NORFOLK SOUTHERN wants to take all the land on the north end cut off all access to the water front, pave new roads ONLY to be used for the new rail yard. This new paved road would go through 2 schools, many neighborhoods, have an overpass on Virginia Ave. This would create more of a nightmare than progress for the future of North Charleston and South Carolina. So in a other words, from Virginia Ave down to the south end of the old navy base would be ALL train yard.
There is a plan to RAISE Don Holt bridge so that the bigger container ships can get to the north end. Did anyone know that???Yes DON HOLT would have to raised to same level as the NEW bridge from Mt. Pleasant.
We in North Charleston are NOT against progress but come on, this plan for the north end rail yard is a mess.
May 20, 2009 at 7:05 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
guidedbystewart (anonymous) says...
Nice photo justjerry at the protest.....
May 20, 2009 at 7:16 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
speedygirl2000 (anonymous) says...
http://www.northcharleston.org/client...
May 20, 2009 at 7:55 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
onawhim (anonymous) says...
Putting down the rails now would be a good idea, just in case there is an inkling of a mass transit system in the future ... putting down the rails should be on every commuter's mind in every city and county in the Lowcountry.
May 20, 2009 at 8:10 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
halfsheli (anonymous) says...
Not sure why people who do not live in the area are so up in arms about those of us who do live in the area having strong convictions about this. I also wish that more of you had been at last night's rally as it was very informative. I don't think that those of you who are familiar with the area realize the destruction that the state's plan will inflict on the progress that has been made.
As for those of you who would like to see Chicora / Cherokee razed...
This is a high crime and dangerous area. It is also an historic area with the potential to be revitalized just as the Montague area has been. Seems to me that resisential and light commercial backdrops would do far more than inserting a heavy wharehouse and industrial area. By the by, wharehouse districts and heavily industrialized areas are often know for being havens for criminal activity, so your "reduce crime by razing the neighborhood" argument holds no water.
May 20, 2009 at 8:29 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
AFWally (anonymous) says...
How 'bout the job factor? Some new Rail lines would bring forth much needed jobs.
May 20, 2009 at 8:36 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
guidedbystewart (anonymous) says...
SOME PEOPLE prefer generic characterless slab housing burbs with Wallyworlds and Mickey Dees as your basis for culture. The Park Circle area of North Charleston is a community with character, where the residents have put heart, soul, and money to better their community.
When the Noisette development started, they asked the port authority and the State repeatedly (not just some napkin promise) about the location of the developed area and if they needed more line and they stated that they didn't!
"All the Mayor and the citizens of North Charleston are asking for is to have rail run through the South end of the base where there is plenty of industrial land and little impact on existing redevelopment efforts. This is what was promised to the city by the SPA by virtue of a state decree and the attempt now is to take it away. This is not to stop the port or kill the jobs, this is to have the SPA do what they originally said they were going to do which was the impetus for very large investments and long term planning. Why this is so hard for folks who do not live in the area to understand is beyond me."
So tell me, why is this a problem? Truth of the matter, the Wando terminal HAS No rail lines going to its terminal. Also, another thing no one is mentioning is how will this effect Summerville when 20+ train are increased going through the center of downtown in an area that already bottlenecked just so tracks can be converted in Orangeburg (here is a guess, labor is cheaper in Orangeburg).
Last but not least, karmann, if the parents of the children of North Charleston High gave an iota of a rats backside and even had a 10th of a passion about their children's' academic aptitude as these NC resident NCH would not be in the state that it is.I have seen the Park Circle resident raise money for Band Uniforms for the High School even though they do not have children that attend classes there. I have seen Park Circle resident raise money for the athletic program, even though they do not children attending classes. Hell, I KNOW OF PARK CIRCLE RESIDENTS that are members of the PTA that do not have children that attend classes there, so the resident of Park Circle apparently are much more involved with the well being of these students that the actual parent are, SO THERE!
May 20, 2009 at 8:38 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
yird (anonymous) says...
No matter what eventually transpires one thing is for certain, Daniel Island will remain sacrosanct.
May 20, 2009 at 8:53 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
speedygirl2000 (anonymous) says...
Have a question: Who is in favor of the Don Holt bridge to be raised to handle the double decked container ships???? The Don Holt bridge would have to be the same height as the Ravenel Bridge in Mt. Pleasant.....anyone want to guess how long this would take? How long you have to sit in traffic on the Mark Clark??? Not me!! We have enough of traffic/parking lot on I-26@ Ashely Phosphate Road.
May 20, 2009 at 8:58 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
crankyyankee (anonymous) says...
Sardis said "This is a first, let me mark my calendar, Mark Sanford actually did something I agree with..." Sounds like you have been wrong an awful lot in the past! It's nice to see the never do wells, poor pitiful me's and the gimme-gimmes are on line this morning. Another day of hand wringing and checking the mailbox foe da Gobmint cheese!
May 20, 2009 at 9 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
CHRISJIII (anonymous) says...
It all boils down to this. The wealthy people on Daniel Island don't want the rail lines running through their neighborhood so they want to dump it on N. Charleston. A deal is a deal.I don't live in N. Charleston nor do I support Gov Sanford but both the Gov and mayor are right in this instance.
May 20, 2009 at 9:16 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
smp (anonymous) says...
Good point, guidedbystewart, about Wando not having any rail. If we got to this point because Maersk is leaving, than why don't we look at where Maersk is leaving from. Maersk lines docked at Wando. So lets fill that vaccuum by putting rail lines through Mt. Pleasant. Nooo that is not what will happen. In fact the Port is having the spend money and land resources creating a "buffer zone" so that the residents in Mt P are not unduly disturbed by port activity.
But not so in North Charleston. It is actually a shell game. The port lost business in Wando and now through a quick slight of hand, is saying that more rail lines in North Charleston will bring business back...to uh Wando. ta dahhhhhhh!
May 20, 2009 at 9:17 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
ParkCircle4Ever (anonymous) says...
Karmann- the people of Park Circle just this past Saturday raised money for North Charleston High's athletics dept at a community yard sale. Not a single one of us has a child at that school. Without the Mayor's support we could not do that. It's the parents of the children that actually attend our schools that need to start showing some support.
Thanks to everyone who came out last night to bring this issue to the forefront of today's media- nothing like a good protest to get everyone fired up! Contact your legislators and continue to voice your opinions!
May 20, 2009 at 9:35 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
JC (anonymous) says...
Politicians!! This goes to show their word means absolutely nothing. It all depends who is willing to scratch your back if you scratch theirs. Disguisting. North Charleston doesn't want the rail line, so they need to stay out!
May 20, 2009 at 10:12 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
chalrestonguy1975 (anonymous) says...
I can understand the people of N. Charleston being upset by this issue and the people that negotiated the agreement many years ago made some major mistakes. This agreement has several items that the mayor has not lived up to and the port has not lived up to. The mayor has put the entire weight of the redevelopment of his city on a piece of paper called a memorandum of understanding. Any lawyers on here care to comment? An MOU is probably the weakest form of agreement out there and he can be bombastic and put on his best Boss Hogg impersonation all he wants but the court will rule against the City on these rail lines. Rail lines enjoy many legal provisions at the federal level that the mayor could not even begin to understand not to mention the fifth amendment to the constitution is broken by the agreement. The rail line is there on the north and what has been proposed would increase the traffic on this line but what choice do we have. Close the port? Trucks all over the place, literally?
Unfortunately, the mayor is right about one thing and that is that the city is being asked to shoulder the economic weight of the state by accepting the port and all that comes with it. You get the traffic and the headaches but you also get the jobs and the tax revenue. This is a state thing and if the city is not careful they will get run over. The port of charleston is the single biggest economic engine is SC and the state will not let a big fat windbag tell them what to do. If NC does not think there are enough votes from Greenville, Spartanburg, Columbia, Florence, Aiken, Myrtle Beach and every other major city in our state that have companies that depend on the port for their existence that will vote to override this veto then they are crazy.
The saddest part of this whole story is that Mayor Summey does not see the reality that we are in a recession and probably a depression. We need jobs and we need to hold the one's that we have. How much taxpayer money does he plan to spend on lawyers to fight this case that he can't win? He admitted himself that their tactic is to stop the port construction and delay and delay again? Have not the people of NC had enough delay when it comes to providing jobs and opportunity? How does this help his community find jobs and secure a strong tax base? How many longshoreman live in NC? Your jobs are at risk from this mayor's action and your port will not grow if you allow your mayor to attack the port in this way. Get loud ILA - Tell Summey to Suck It Up or Find a New Job!
May 20, 2009 at 10:26 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
MP (anonymous) says...
The UAW killed the auto industry in the US. The Textile Worker's Union killed the textile industry, the Steel Workers Union killed the steel industry. The list goes on and on and on. The ILA will kill the shipping industry out of pure greed.
May 20, 2009 at 10:32 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
IrwinCory (anonymous) says...
JOE RILEY IS HAPPY TO MOVE THE CARGO SHIPS TO NORTH CHARLESTON AND THE PASSENGER TERMINAL TO MOUNT PLEASANT. . THE VENDORS IN THE MARKET WISH THE PASSENGER SHIPS WOULD GO AWAY SO THEY CAN MAKE MONEY OFF THE "REAL" TOURISTS. THERE IS MORE TO THIS RAIL ISSUE THAN THE GENERAL PUBLIC KNOWS ABOUT. WOULD NORTH CHARLESTON CITIZENS BE WILLING TO VISIT A HUGE WATERFRONT PARK, SHOPPING MALL AND MAYBE THE SENATOR'S HUNLEY IN THE CITY OF CHARLESTON? OH, THEY MAY THROW IN A DISCOUNT PARKING PASS SINCE YOU LIVE IN NORTH CHARLESTON. IT LOOKS LIKE PEANUT BUTTER, BUT IT AIN'T.
May 20, 2009 at 10:37 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
zoomru (anonymous) says...
Great Comments ....by all !!!
Now ......if we could only get everyone in the entire state that is directly or indirectly impacted to stop and think about this major issue from all of OUR perspectives to digest and think and ....ACT on !!
May 20, 2009 at 10:58 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
flyingopinion (anonymous) says...
Thank you mayor Summey for standing up for the people of Park Circle! The Port Authority needs to keep their word and do what is right. We can not sacrifice our community for the sake of additional jobs in Orangburg. I'm all for development, but there has to be a balance between industry and residential. While everyone gives North Charleston such a hard time - this is where the jobs are found. This is the leader in Commercial revenue in the state! Whey isn't the "Pleasant Side of the River" opening their arms for the port and railroads!
May 20, 2009 at 11:40 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
KidYendor (anonymous) says...
I think most of the complaints would be eliminated if the trains would not block traffic for too long and keep moving and not toot their horns incessantly at all times of day and night. Incessant horn tooting at early morning hours is ridiculous at 4 a.m. when auto traffic is light and train speed is slow. "Get out of the wayyyy, I'm the engineer and I am going 15 mphooouuuurrrrr, hhhhhhoooooooonnnnnnnnkkkkkkkkkk!!!! hhhhhhhhooooooonnnnnnkkkkkkk!!!! I do not care if I wake everyone uuuuppppppp!!!!"
May 20, 2009 at 12:32 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
UrGatorbait (anonymous) says...
I see SC is still the bastion of job production. 300 useful idiots.
May 20, 2009 at 12:47 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Punky (anonymous) says...
ALL locomotives must adhere to rules set forth by the FRA. That would include activating a warning (horn) no matter what the clock says. I grew up less than 30 yards from the rail, the noise is not that big of a deal. Rails were here first, don't like it....move.
May 20, 2009 at 12:55 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
halfsheli (anonymous) says...
I was at the rally last night. There wre about 300 civil-minded, concerned Park Circle residents (among others) who were supporting their city and educating themselves on the ramifications of the dumb-azz move by the state. I saw nary an idiot. But, I think I spot one now...
May 20, 2009 at 1:11 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
KidYendor (anonymous) says...
Hi Punky, I will read some stuff about the FRA later when I have a chance. Obviously, the rules need to be changed to allow peaceful interchange between community and rails when trains are going slow. I see no point in long, loud horns when gates are down and lights flashing with a train going relatively slow. I do not live close to any rails to disturb me, thank the Lord. I just want to be a part of the solution. North Charleston should pass an ordinance allowing non horn times for trains and circumvent the FRA.
May 20, 2009 at 1:37 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
ParkCircle4Ever (anonymous) says...
We actually have a rail quiet zone near the business district and high school, good luck trying to enforce that! Thanks for calling us idiots Gator- if standing up for our community and what we believe in makes us idiots then idiots we will be. I'd love to see what your neighborhood would do if this was happening in your backyard.
May 20, 2009 at 2:04 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Native_Ink (anonymous) says...
Mayor Summey is the worst sort of NIMBY hypocrite. He had no problem going across the Ashley River to take over Watson Hill so it could be developed in a way that most people who actually lived nearby hated and had fought against for years. But God forbid anyone do something to his neighborhood!
May 20, 2009 at 3:10 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
wjhamilton3 (anonymous) says...
Someone needs to be sure rail service is available to this shipping terminal. The Wando Terminal is already generating huge amounts of truck traffic. This terminal will generate even more, locking up I26 and consuming all the new lane capacity being constructed now.
May 20, 2009 at 4:10 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
UrGatorbait (anonymous) says...
Park make sure you put your cute little PC initial sticker on your car window so you think you are actually doing something. Fortunately my neighborhood is not built in proximity to a military installation that once depended on rail to service the navy yard and vicinity so I have no worries. If you bought there than well, then money will dictate what happens to you next. But keep up the good fight. If all North Chuck can tout is the Park Circle area, than....well...
Yep halfshell you can stop looking in the mirror, it makes typing easier.
May 20, 2009 at 4:25 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
burton (anonymous) says...
WhoCares,
Your comments about Chicora-Cherokee were totally off base. Just so you know, there are "good" families that live in Chicora. Stop stereotyping all African-Americans. If you would like a tour of Chicora so that I can prove it to you, let me know. Otherwise, please talk what you know and don't believe all the negative press you read about Chicora. Here is one organization that is doing great work in Chicora:
May 20, 2009 at 4:30 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
JAS (anonymous) says...
There are 2 very large intermodal rail yards planned to accomodate both CSX and Norfolk Southern on the SOUTH END of the base practically shipside to the new container terminal. It is at and next to the Macalloy site tying them into the rail lines that already run along Meeting Street. The same amount of investment is required to do this as reefurbishing the tracks on the central and north end of the base. People need to realize that aside from the major spur that is along Virginia avenue and basically ends at the North gate, there was only lighter service rail throughout the base - nothing major and it ALL needs to be rebuilt if it were to accomodate Double stack rail cars. The only issue is the two lines will have to cross tracks. Pretty absurd excuse since they are able to cross tracks in Savannah and in Norfolk just fine.
The neighboorhood affected - Rosemont, Union Heights, etc. are already agreed to this and are recieving almost $5 million in mitigation
This was the original plan and if followed through with, you wouldn't be hearing any complaints.
This is the state gov't completely reneging on a promise for the benefit of one single rail line out of a fear the BMW will yank additional services and move more ops to Brunswick. That's it. And if was happening to you and your community, you would be doing the same thing.
May 20, 2009 at 4:46 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
guidedbystewart (anonymous) says...
Oh come on Gator, YOU, Mr. Pompous smart ass himself, calling someone narcissistic, PLEASE!!! You sir are almost in love with himself as much as postman01 is.
So what neighborhood is that? Characterless slab housing is pretty much the norm here. Yes, we do need jobs, yet the residents of PC were lied to and just standing up for there neighborhood, but Mr. Arrogant had to standup and insult people. Yes, Gator, GET OVER YOURSELF and then maybe you might get some respect!
May 20, 2009 at 5:22 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
JAS (anonymous) says...
You know, this is the reason I usually don't post on boards like this. It's people like the Gator guy. Those that like to sign on and attack others personally are just internet muckrakers with zero knowledge of the subject at hand.
I've learned that only people comforted by the shroud of internet message board anonymity make these ridiculous assertions. And no where else.
These are the kind of people whose wives and co-workers and bosses and neighbors *&^% on them on a daily basis and they never have the courage to say a thing.
But boy-oh-boy you can count on them to come out of the woodworks to stir the pot! All warm and safe in front of the computer screen--usually in their parents basement. So quick to condemn the shortcomings of others. Maybe Freud was on to something...
May 20, 2009 at 5:35 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Numba10 (anonymous) says...
so it is okay for the residents of daniel island to renig on an agreement to have the port there but not okay to go back on an agreement not to have rail in the north end of the old ship yard-----
May 20, 2009 at 5:37 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
CaptPete (anonymous) says...
The protesters seem to be just a bunch of racist. All white faces in the picture. They are saying don't run the tracks thru the white area( north end of the base)run it thru the poor black area ( south end of the base).
The black folks in those neighborhoods have been kicked around by the City of North Charleston for a long time.
The North end makes the most business sense for the taxpayers of the state. Build it and hire some folks.
May 20, 2009 at 6 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
dawhetsell (anonymous) says...
use barges and solve everyones problem.
May 20, 2009 at 6 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
speedygirl2000 (anonymous) says...
CaptPete, i was wondering when someone would pull the racist card and you are the winner. i can tell you did NOT attend last night's rally.If your comment is based on what was shown on the tv news stations, you are being mislead on who attended and made their voices heard. SHAME on you CaptPete SHAME
May 20, 2009 at 6:08 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
burton (anonymous) says...
CaptPete,
I'm the last to pull the "race" card but you are right. Speedygirl2000, he is right. The mayor has not shown the same disdain for the tracks running through the south end of the city as he has for the plan to run it through the north. I don't want to call it racist but it does make you go mmmmmm.
There is even one map that shows an asphalt road going right through Chicora Elementary!! I just want the mayor to show the same fervor for the south end of the city as he shows for the north end.
May 20, 2009 at 7:33 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
justjerry (anonymous) says...
The plan that the Mayor supports affects very little residential property (it does not run through Chicora.) The affected neighborhoods have already been made aware of this years ago when the initial planning was done and have money already set aside to mitigate problems.
The Mayor is offering a plan that WILL provide for a state of the art port, it is just a plan that will not destroy the North end of the Navy base and severely damage all of the progress that has been made there.
May 20, 2009 at 7:54 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
moonpie (anonymous) says...
yeah capt Peter to the tune of $5 million dollars they have been kicked around. That's more $$ than those people have seen all together!
May 20, 2009 at 7:54 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
JohnS (anonymous) says...
The South route does run down the middle of Howard Heights and into sections Accabee.
The truck access road that is within feet of Chicora Elem is in the original plan for truck routes. Not too many whites living in these areas.
May 20, 2009 at 8:51 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
803scdantes (anonymous) says...
Why would you be a member of the PTA and not have a child in the school? I would think the "Parent-Teacher Association" would only include parents and teachers- not some random guy from the neighborhood nearby.
May 20, 2009 at 9:56 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
justjerry (anonymous) says...
There are folks who live in the Park Circle neighborhood who do not believe that just because they do not have children that they should not participate in the education of the kids in the community. While everyone else is throwing in the towel and saying that vouchers are the only way, there are many people who think that it is better to participate and insure the success of schools rather than just give up.
May 20, 2009 at 10:05 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
thunderbolt (anonymous) says...
I hate it when people who don't live in North Charleston and haven't invested heavily in this community make comments and don't get all their facts straight by not reading every piece of literature available concerning this issue. Adding this railroad the way the legislators are trying hard to do, i.e. through the North End, would be a huge detriment to North Charleston and it's community progress. This city has a great deal of potential to become another beautiful section of the lowcounty, but it will take time and effort and smart planning. So unless you understand the entire story, please don't talk against the needs of North Charleston Homeowner residents by supporting this railroad. Here are some other findings made by a recent study. Chances are there will be hardly any jobs created because the train terminal will be mostly automated. The railroad would probably create hour-long traffic delays each day and thus potentially harming the health of North Charleston as ambulances and other emergency vehicles would also be caught by the train at the intersections. Help stand against this rail line that could come in and ruin North Charleston's Revitalization!
May 21, 2009 at 12:55 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
ParkCircle4Ever (anonymous) says...
JOHN S says: The South route does run down the middle of Howard Heights and into sections Accabee.
The truck access road that is within feet of Chicora Elem is in the original plan for truck routes. Not too many whites living in these areas
YOU ARE RIGHT! This is part of the entire Wilbur Smith Plan that the Mayor opposes, which happens to include warehousing and rail yards all over the Noisette property. We absolutely oppose roads over Chicora Elementary which is why I mentioned so in previous posts, it is an historic facility that the city has plans for once their new school is built.
GATOR: I HAVE LIVED HERE FOR 38 YEARS AND AM NO STRANGER TO INDUSTRY OR RAILROADS! However, the current property I am living in was priced highly due to its proximity to the redevlopment of the base and noisette project. NOT BECAUSE OF A RAIL YARD! The navy base hardly depended on rail service to operate, as stated many many times over, there is but one single line that runs onto the North end of the base. You obviously know nothing about the people who live and work in our city, thank you guidedby and others who seem to have a much better grasp of what is at stake here.
May 21, 2009 at 10:36 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
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