School choice bill takes fire

NativeSon (anonymous) says...

This is pure evidence that black leaders want black children to fail and continue being kept ignorant.

I suppose that is because the leaders do not want todays children to appear better than them.

March 27, 2009 at 5:05 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

karmann (anonymous) says...

How long will failing schools be given a chance/choice before the students who are assigned to them be given a chance or a choice. I support Mr. Ford on this one.

March 27, 2009 at 6:13 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

moonpie (anonymous) says...

It's a control thing NativeSon. They have to keep them in failing neighbor hood schools to keep them on the special "coolaide teaching" going on in those schools. He is right in the fact that all those people opposing have done NOTHING to better a youg black's chances, chices or life in general. JUST MORE OF THE SAME. If you don't agree you must be a racist!

March 27, 2009 at 6:32 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

cwmcpa (anonymous) says...

Gee Not one person that is against the bill is a republican, all part of the democratic establishment. I don't think that preacher Joe would want black children to have chance at a better life and education. They might see how the preacher has been keeping them down all these years. The soft bigotry of low expectations. Non victims do not contribute to the NAACP or attend Morris AME. Too much has been invested by the established black community in keeping these folks voting democaratic. Soon the established black community will find a way to spin this into a racist issue, and hang it on the republicans.

March 27, 2009 at 6:32 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

theronce (anonymous) says...

Ford nailed it with his comment challenging opponents on whether they would allow their own children to attend a failing school. However, his reference to predominantly "black" has no bearing or weight. I do not know about SC in particular, but I do know that there are many predominantly white schools failing across this country. It's a rare occurrence anymore that I meet a young person in or just out of school that can make change...and I estimate that 90% of their errors are in their favor. Also, I still think that a child with engaged parents can succeed in any school. As long as parents love the dollar more than their children and the education business continues with this 19th century model of education, then no amount of money will be sufficient to educate adequately much more than half the kids.

March 27, 2009 at 7:34 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

regulardude (anonymous) says...

Nativeson - Thats a pretty broad statement that you've made in regard to black leaders and the black community. Not every black individual in a semi-prominent position is what would be considered a "Black Leader". I don't consider him some sort of "Black Leader" sent down to save us "po black folk down here in chucktown". He's a politician. Im pretty sure whites do not consider Sanford or Riley a "White Leader" of the white community.

One more thing. I'm not trying to start a Post for Post war with you. The media and a SMALL percentage of blacks have created this fairy tale notion, that we as blacks just all band together and look up to ONE individual for guidance. NOT TRUE. I stand on my own two feet and seek advice from those who advice should be sought from. No matter their race. As a matter of fact, I think Al Sharpton is freaking joke. Let the media tell it, he's the black mesiah (with a perm).

As far as the article. I'm not sure what steps should be taken to improve the schools here. But I do know that SOMETHING has to be done.

March 27, 2009 at 7:41 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

cappy (anonymous) says...

When will they realize that failing schools don't make failing students, failing students make failing schools. Sending these kids to other schools will only make more failing schools. Until they address the problem of cultural indifference and non involved parents there will always be problems in our schools.

March 27, 2009 at 7:46 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

majorjohnson (anonymous) says...

If the opponents were actually supporters of educating children this would not be an issue. If you want children educated at state expense why would you really care if they got their education at a private or public school, or at home for that matter as long as they received a good education. The opponents are supporters of the government education bureaucracy, and its financial support is is the only thing they are interested in. If the children get a crappy education that's just an opportunity to insist on more money for the system. Education of children is not the issue here.

March 27, 2009 at 7:50 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

regulardude (anonymous) says...

cappy - well said

March 27, 2009 at 7:54 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

jk_newhard (anonymous) says...

blueeyes, well-said. The credits and vouchers will NOT pay for a poor child to attend a private school, which is MY main opposition to the bill. Actually look at private school tuition costs and compare them to the amounts that would be received. And yes, I looked up tuition costs for both religious and non-religious schools.

March 27, 2009 at 8:11 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

jk_newhard (anonymous) says...

Also, kudos to cappy for pointing out the major problem that makes a failing school.

March 27, 2009 at 8:13 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

greyrider (anonymous) says...

This is pure common sense. As long as there is no competition between schools, the schools will continue to fail. Parents need to be FREE (what a weird word) to choose where to send their kids to school. If they don't have confidence in the school down the street, they should not be FORCED to send their kids there.

BTW, if you want to know what a disaster socialized medicine would be like, just look at the public school system.

No competition = No success

March 27, 2009 at 8:16 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

jme (anonymous) says...

Failing schools also have a lot to do with lack of resources and adopted Curriculum programs that come down from the district with no formal training for teachers on how to use them. There are a lot of good things going on in the district, but the follow through on all parts is lacking. It also ties to the fact that federal law requires all students to take on grade level tests no matter what grade level you perform on. A student reading on a second grade level has to take a fifth grade level state performance test. What would anyone expect??? Of course a failing report! I'm sure that leaves many asking well why are these kids not held back to catch up...well thanks no child left behind...they actually get LEFT BEHIND!!

March 27, 2009 at 8:31 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

greyrider (anonymous) says...

Here's the truth on "No Child Left Behind". NCLB did radically improve the public school system. And here's how. It was taking an NFL team that goes 1-15, hiring a new coach and in his first year, the new coach goes 3-13. Holy cow, he tripled the number of wins!!! Incredible!!! The public school system is so screwed up, it PROBABLY will never be fixed. I have zero confidence in either party in this regard.

March 27, 2009 at 8:36 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

scienceguy (anonymous) says...

A study has been conducted in this state to show the enormoity of what it would cost to enact this legislation. Maybe Senator Ford should read the study before he goes off the deep end.

A similar program was enacted in Florida with less than stirling results. Because there was neither oversight nor accountibility of the private schools, many schools took the money and gave nothing in return, thereby leaving the state to clean up the mess and assimilate the kids back into public school.

Rev. Joe Darby has opposed charter schools which I do not understand. But, for Senator Ford to say that Justice Finney has never done anything to help black people is absurd.

March 27, 2009 at 8:37 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

eatmorecollards (anonymous) says...

There's a old saying I think has relevance here. "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink." Somehow we have to instill the thirst to learn in our children.

Reward the over achievers, but also reward the achievers. Instead of just teaching the material also teach a purpose for knowing it.

March 27, 2009 at 8:41 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Lovely_One (anonymous) says...

regulardude,

You took your 7:41 a.m.post right out of my head. I have been saying the exact same thing about Al, Jesse, Dot, and the rest of their ilk for a long time. I am also for the notion that not all blacks look to "one" person as our "leader".

And, cappy, you are dead on with your assertion of the failing students making the failing schools. The sooner these people realize this the sooner we can start coming up with solutions.

March 27, 2009 at 8:44 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

LocalNerd (anonymous) says...

If we can take emotion out of the decision, then we can make smart decisions!

My quick assessment is that, on average, approximately 50% of the local households have 1 school aged child. This accounts for households without kids, households with non-school-aged kids and households with multiple kids. As an example, let's make the math simple: we'll look at a representative neighborhood with 10 homes. So there are 5 houses with school-aged kids and 5 without.

Let's also say that each house contributes an average of $X taxes that are allocated to schools. Some houses pay more taxes and some pay less but the averag is $X. Therefore we have $10X dollars for 5 kids.

Now let's set up a program where each family can choose to take the average tax contribution to apply as they please for their child's education. If you are wealthy and pay more than X, you only get X back. If you are poor and pay less than X, you will benefit by getting the full X value.

NOW HERE IS THE COOL PART!
With all 5 kids going to public school, the school has $2X per child for education. If one family takes their $X for school choice, the remaining 4 children split $9X. So now there is $2.25X per child in the public schools. WOW, THE MONEY PER CHILD ACTUALLY GOES UP FOR THE PUBLIC SCHOOLS! If 2 kids leave, the remaining children have $2.67X; even more!

Without the emotion the math tells the real story. Now the only emotion left is sadness because kids from failing schools don't have any idea what I just wrote.

March 27, 2009 at 8:52 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

coolfreaknbeans (anonymous) says...

Wow. Some excellent posts on this one. Cappy,jk_newhard, eatmorecollards,regulardude and even blue_eyes. I believe in improving the schools conditions. But this could be ripe with fraud. How far would it go? Could you get a phony address from a crappy area and then ask the taxpayers to foot the bill to Porter Gaud or Ashley Hall ?

March 27, 2009 at 8:54 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

onawhim (anonymous) says...

Cappy, APPLAUSE, APPLAUSE!

March 27, 2009 at 8:55 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

CHRISJIII (anonymous) says...

Cappy you hit it right on the head.

March 27, 2009 at 8:56 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

jadedncynical (anonymous) says...

My two cents' worth...Ford is spot-on here, particularly with the observation that none of the people coming out in opposition to his proposal would allow their own children to attend failing schools. Somehow it's good enough for others, though. Hypocrisy? You make the call.

There are two key realities that the nay-sayers won't acknowledge:

(1) Competition makes services better. It works in the marketplace when the marketplace is allowed to remain free of government intervention. When the marketplace is closed, innovation is stifled and customer service is an afterthought (see the U.S. Postal Service).

(2) The public schools are nearly fully controlled, in terms of the content taught and the standards to be met, by liberal interests, and have been for many years. The public schools are still the best place for these liberal interests to indoctrinate young minds. Allowing these malleable children and youth to slip away into private schools represents a lost opportunity to flood the minds of a captive audience with liberal dogma, revisionist history, etc.

As a parent, I want my child in the best possible learning environment. There are too many schools in Charleston County where learning just isn't possible, and the blame for that lies with school administrators, and more importantly, parents. If we really want the best possible education for all of our children, we'll stop worrying as much WHERE they get it, and start worrying that they have the OPPORTUNITY to get it.

March 27, 2009 at 9:08 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

scienceguy (anonymous) says...

LocalNerd:

Your proposal does not compute for any number of reasons too complex to address here. Still, here is a question for you. I am sick and tired of paying taxes for all the things I don't use--the Cooper River Bridge, the Clemson football coach's contract buyout, the Charleston Acquarium, other people's Social Security, the Segway's purchased by the Charleston Police Department, and so on. If rich parents are going to get their taxes back to use to send their kids to Ashley Hall, why can't I get all my taxes back that are spent on the things that I don't use and use them to fund my needs? In other words, what is so special about these folks that allows them complete control to decide how their taxes are to be spent?

March 27, 2009 at 9:14 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

nochasgirl (anonymous) says...

In a lot of situations, it is not going to make any difference where the child attends school. You can only teach a willing learner. If the child has no structure or support at home, they will fail no matter what. Could it be that failing students make failing schools?

March 27, 2009 at 9:21 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

youngatheart (anonymous) says...

Cappy, there is a prime example of your words. Oakland was a great school,then it was chosen as one of the schools that Burns and another failing school's students could go to because they were failing school. Now, Oakland is a failing school.

March 27, 2009 at 9:27 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

LocalNerd (anonymous) says...

ScienceGuy:

I would love to see your competing math; I've already seen that your spelling is of failing school quality.

An educated population is a benefit to all. It is impossible for you to argue that every child shouldn't be given an opportunity to become educated.

Why don't you make a post that says something positive and constructive? So far you are 2 for 2 on negative comments.
Perhaps you simply don't have anything good to say.

FYI:

Stirling was a man who invented an external combustion engine. I believe that you meant sterling instead.

Also, there is no such word as enormoity; you probably meant enormity.

March 27, 2009 at 9:35 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

doiseeu2 (anonymous) says...

Private schools already get some federal money, and public schools everywhere need all the help they can get. Parents who choose to send their children to private schools, should do so with the understanding that they are paying for that as a privilege. A quality, free education is a right of every American; a private, often parochial, education is NOT.

Attention should be given to the public schools. This bill is a joke and is going to hurt the all ready struggling public schools.

March 27, 2009 at 9:44 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

scottmcx (anonymous) says...

Why does educator Cooper even mention "As an African-American"? WTF does that have to do with this?

March 27, 2009 at 9:55 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

wjhamilton3 (anonymous) says...

With the public schools facing another 100 million dollars in budget cuts, this is an odd time to bring this up. Charleston has a lot of options for choice and thousands of choices are being made.

The new Math and Science Magnet High School on the Rivers campus uptown is doing well with an integrated student body and good test scores.

Academic Magnet, the Arts High School and Wando have all gotten national recognition and provide educations to motivated students better than any local private school. That's why empty desks are turning up at the Private schools locally and their waiting lists have shrunk.

We've got school choice in Charleston County with Charter Schools, Magnet Schools and No Child Left Behind. Nobody is stuck in a "failing school" unless they want to be.

You can be stuck in the worst school attendance zone in the county, with the worst poor rural high school and walk into Wando High School under No Child Left Behind. Plenty of kids from Hollywood, McClellenville and North Charleston have done that every day of this school year.

March 27, 2009 at 9:58 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

scienceguy (anonymous) says...

LocalNerd:

I was in a hurry and did not Spellcheck. I will be more careful in the future.

The math has already been done in the study I referenced earlier. I will try to locate the site/link for this study later today and post it if I can.

I am not sure why you thought my post was negative. But, I do note that you did not answer my question.

March 27, 2009 at 10:21 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

LocalNerd (anonymous) says...

wjhamilton3

You are absolutley right about the excellent high schools that CCSD has developed. I'll send my kids to one of them for sure. I already actively support these schools with my time and money.

But, I also want my kids to qualify to attend a school like AMHS. Since I live in a district with failing elementary and middle schools, I've chosen to send my kids elsewhere.

Buist Academy would have been a good choice had my kid been able to get in. However, not even my neighbor's second child (whose older sibling is already in BA) could get in because of the districting issues and the wait list.

So, we (and they) are shouldering the burden of nearly $10,000 per year to send our children to private schools BECAUSE THERE ARE NO PUBLICLY FUNDED OPTIONS AVAILABLE TO US.

Please see my first post. I'd be happy to get the money that CCSD could (should) be spending to educate my child to offset my kid's tuition. If CCSD provided a viable option that I chose to ignore, then I wouldn't have a reasonable complaint.

March 27, 2009 at 10:23 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

WhatMeWorry (anonymous) says...

scienceguy asks, "what is so special about these folks that allows them complete control to decide how their taxes are to be spent?"

What's so special about them is that they ran for office and were elected. That's why they get to make decisions.

The idea that each individual should get to choose which taxes he wants to pay going line by line through each service the government provides is absurd. If you really want to dissect your taxes so that you don't have to pay for the Ravenel Bridge and state university salaries, you'll have to invent your own country because that one doesn't exist.

Lastly, your screen name implies that you have some inclination toward science. If science funding depended on each lay tax payer deciding which study they wanted to fund, we'd still be dying of polio and we'd all be speaking German.

I'd speculate you have very little to do with science.

March 27, 2009 at 10:28 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

scienceguy (anonymous) says...

LocalNerd:

I support school choice and Charter Schools and other endeavors to both improve and reduce the cost of public education. I do not support sending taxpayer funds to organizations and institutions who are not subject to monitoring and oversight. That is what caused the problems in Florida.

March 27, 2009 at 10:29 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

WhatMeWorry (anonymous) says...

LocalNerd - first time I've had to do algebra while reading a post. Nice!

March 27, 2009 at 10:30 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

WhatMeWorry (anonymous) says...

Pointing out that some of the politicians in question wouldn't send their own kids to failing schools, then saying, "Aha!" is a bit hollow.

When I was moving my family to this area, the #1 priority in choosing a neighborhood was school quality. That's how I ensured (to the best of my ability) that my kids would not go to a failing school. That's what intelligent people with straight priorities do.

March 27, 2009 at 10:35 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

WhatMeWorry (anonymous) says...

reems, I'm surprised to read that you believe in human evolution.

March 27, 2009 at 10:36 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

eyeinthesky (anonymous) says...

Localnerd, your analysis was correct. Sciencelessguy was wrong on many levels other than his spelling. Taxpayers did not pay off Clemson's coach. Donors to the Atletic department did. It is east for him to say his nonsense and not have to back it up. You called him out and he just faded away.

March 27, 2009 at 10:37 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

LocalNerd (anonymous) says...

ScienceGuy

I did answer your question. Look again. But here is the expanded version.

Every child deserves the opportunity to be educated; we all benefit from that. Which is why parents should have the choice to use the tax dollars that are supposed to be spent on their child's education if the government is not providing that service in an adequate or appropriate manner.

I can't argue about wasting taxes on football coach salaries and some other items. Find a legislator to write a billing banning that and I'll support him/her and you just like I'm support Mr. Ford on this issue.

I've seen the study you referenced. It, like most politically motivated studies, uses statistical manipulation to support the conclusion that the author wanted to demonstrate at the outset of the study. A scientist is a person who is willing to change their mind when confronted with new evidence. The author simply cherry-picked data in an effort to show that their opinion was correct.

March 27, 2009 at 10:43 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

guidedbystewart (anonymous) says...

Reiterating my post from yesterday

Posted by guidedbystewart on March 25, 2009 at 2:22 p.m. (Suggest removal)

There are a couple of reason why private schools out perform public schools, but the main reason is that private schools do not have the dilemma of educating the masses.
But anyways here are the reasons broken down...
Private schools can be picky at whom they take in, public schools can not. It is much easier for a private school to kick out incorrigible students, under performing student, ECT.
Parental involvement is much getter in private schools, but then again, if you are paying a bunch of money into school, your child's academic achievement would be much more monitored.
On average, the class size in private schools is much less than of that of public schools.
The teachers' employment is more competitive in private schools, also many teachers do not have to deal with the same kind of "riff raff" that they would in many public schools, because of the above reasons.

Yet, we do still have school choice and private schools are an option. If you want your child to go to private school and you can not afford it, you should push your kid enough for them to get a scholarship. It is doubtful that a voucher system would lessen the cost of private schools. If private schools received vouchers, all it would do is raise the tuition in order to keep the masses out. There is no way the government can give money to the private school system without taking money away from the public school system. This is the last thing that needs to happen in this State. Besides private schools are a business, they are there to make money, public schools are not.

Also, I have to give kudos to cappy post ealier...

March 27, 2009 at 11:02 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

guidedbystewart (anonymous) says...

Also, like scienceguy...

"I support school choice and Charter Schools and other endeavors to both improve and reduce the cost of public education. I do not support sending taxpayer funds to organizations and institutions who are not subject to monitoring and oversight. That is what caused the problems in Florida."

I definitely concur with this statement.

March 27, 2009 at 11:18 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Luna (anonymous) says...

Someday we will look back at this as the era of the white holocaust and an attempt at conservative genocide.

WHAT?

March 27, 2009 at 11:30 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

theronce (anonymous) says...

Failing parents are the cause of failing students. The general public supports the failing parents by ponying up the money and backing the lie that poor schools are the reason that students fail.

March 27, 2009 at 11:43 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

sherlock (anonymous) says...

I agree with the Senator. Why should we continue to send our children to schools that are failing to give our children the very knowledge needed to survive in this world? why do we insist that our children remain illiterate when they have the chance to excell? Anyone that doesnt agree with the Senator's bill is obviously a teacher or a staff member at a public school that cares more about money (and the teachers union) than the very children they are supposed to teach.

March 27, 2009 at 12:04 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

scienceguy (anonymous) says...

eyeinthesky:

Do you also think that college athletic teams pay for themselves? Or that growth pays for itself?

I thought that when Al Parish and Bernie Madoff went to jail that folks would quit relying on their economic models.

BTW, your spelling is as bad as mine. Not that it matters.

LocalNerd:

Just so that we are clear--I support true school choice, not school choice for a limited few. I also support a quality education for everyone with the caveat that that may involve techinical school programs as well as college prep programs.

I agree that the study we both reference made some assumptions. I think they were valid--you apparently don't.

Finally, you didn't answer my question about whether taxpayers should only have to pay taxes on programs that directly benefit them.

March 27, 2009 at 12:14 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

coolfreaknbeans (anonymous) says...

Absolutely PERFECT post guidedbystewart ! You and I may not always agree, but you hit the nail square on the head !

March 27, 2009 at 12:50 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

wjhamilton3 (anonymous) says...

Re LocalNerd

You had a lot more options that Buist. Orange Grove is an excellent Charter School West of the Ashley and I believe St. Andrews was running a very successful magnet program. There is the Montessori Magnet West of the Ashley and East Cooper Montessori Charter in Mt. Pleasant. Behind all of that is No Child Left Behind with several more options.

Believe me, people in Charleston County have figured out how to send their kids to good public schools when they want to. It's just a matter of working on all the options. The Principals at the schools understand you'll get empty desks in a hurry if you can't deliver. They're very motivated.

I wasn't so lucky years ago. We were living downtown and we had to fight the local school board for a transfer to Orange Grove, an excellent school with a wonderful faculty. That was in the early days of school choice.

We finally sold our house downtown and moved to Mt. Pleasant. Our Middle School options weren't as good as we wanted and we wanted our son to go to school with his friends from the neighborhood. Moultrie was one of the best middle schools in the state and he's at Wando now.

However today you can live downtown and access quality public schools across the county. They don't all have the snob appeal of Buist, but most have enrichment programs and advanced classes available.

March 27, 2009 at 12:55 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

redreader (anonymous) says...

I've noticed that neither the P&C reporter nor any of the commentators have mentioned the influence of New Yorker Howard Rich and his money (and his friends' cash) that is funneled to politicians who support vouchers, tax credits, whatever you want to call it. Ford has been on the receiving end of a full-court press from these people and their checks. Look it up on the SC.gov website for donations to him. You'll find a certain address repeatedly listed.

Robert Ford has only ever supported positions that have campaign donations behind them and he's either too vain or stupid (or both) to realize he's been made into an Uncle Tom.

March 27, 2009 at 1:02 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Rocks66 (anonymous) says...

Ford is dead right on this. How many more classes of S.C. school-age kids have to be let down by the current system before folks around here wake up? ANY option that improves the chances of these students finishing school with a decent education is worth considering. Naturally, the teachers unions oppose it, because it calls into question their abilities, and, God forbid, might induce the legislature to require teachers to have some accountability themselves. Wouldn't THAT be something?

I drove an old Acura for thirteen years so I could send my son to private school. Today he's a sophomore in the honors college of the state's most demanding university, and he has made the Dean's List every semester since he enrolled. Had he had to attend the public school system here, I shudder to think what he might be doing now.

If you're a parent, be unrelenting in your quest to get a better education for your kids. Once they "graduate" from high school, it's too late. And considering that roughly 50% of the kids in our public school system don't even make it THAT far, being proactive is even more critical. Don't let the bureaucrats deny your child a chance for something better.

March 27, 2009 at 1:31 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Draconian (anonymous) says...

School choice in or out of the government institutionalized monopolies is the freedom of democracy from tyrannical control. John Stewart Mills in 1859 believed a general state education created despotism over the mind and it still does today. Senator Ford has my complete support on S 520.

March 27, 2009 at 1:32 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Luna (anonymous) says...

However today you can live downtown and access quality public schools across the county. They don't all have the snob appeal of Buist, but most have enrichment programs and advanced classes available.
******************************************
Pardon me? Not all Buist parents are snobs. Some of us just have exceptional children. Now that I will be snobby about!

March 27, 2009 at 1:33 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

SCdeacinNYC (anonymous) says...

Very good comments from both sides of the issue. It's rare that conversations on this board don't devolve into name-calling, pettiness or just general ignorance. As I said yesterday, I agree with guidedby completely and others on the board and that I wholeheartedly believe in the school choice of the public school system.

When I was in school my parents refused to keep me in a failing school. They moved my sister and I to another school within our district. You DO have that choice, hundreds of parents make that choice every year to send their kids to another school rather than the ones in their own neighborhoods because they aren't adequate. Besides as coolfreak mentioned, I don't trust the state to be able to adequately regulate this system to prevent fraud and I sincerely doubt the biggies like Porter Gaud and Ashley Hall are going to be jumping for joy and opening their arms to every parent that wants their kid to do better. Those schools are businesses and have standards and they should. I suspect only a handful would make it in that far. What about the other 95%, are they doomed?

March 27, 2009 at 2:25 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

SCdeacinNYC (anonymous) says...

AND who is this Howard Rich guy financing this thing? He's from New York, my current home.

Well he obviously has a definite agenda, which just happens to be school choice.

http://www.friedmanfoundation.org/fri...

That is OK for him, but it seems convenient that this guy is financing Ford's campaign for governor and all of a sudden school choice is Ford's main rallying call. Ford is a complete kook... I am so tired of seeing his face and hearing his overly self-important comments. He seems to have sold-out whatever prior beliefs he had on this matter in order to allow his campaign and SC to be a guinea pig for this guy's agenda. That's just piss-poor.

March 27, 2009 at 2:32 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

halfsheli (anonymous) says...

"Anyone that doesnt agree with the Senator's bill is obviously a teacher or a staff member at a public school that cares more about money (and the teachers union) than the very children they are supposed to teach."

Yes, teachers and their obsession with the copious amounts of money that they make off of the tapayers...

It is so obvious that anyone who is a teacher is only in it for the paycheck and definitely NOT the children. I'm not even sure why teachers should have to put up with children. If we could just eliminate the children from public schools... Then teachers could earn those outrageous paychecks without having to pretend like they care at all. That's brilliant!

Oh, and what teacher's union? There is NO teacher's union in the prestigious state of South Carolina.

March 27, 2009 at 2:35 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

crankyyankee (anonymous) says...

After reading the comments on this site about the budget, stimulus package spending, bank bailouts and education I'm positive the children of this State will always be inferior until most of you move out and someone with a brain moves in. These are your kids that can't cut the mustard and the nut doesn't fall far from the tree. More money won't make you or your prodigy any smarter it will only make the taxpayer less stimulated, trust me! Your children were idiots before Sanford was elected and they will be after he moves on. It's you stupid not the Government or the school system but you! Have another offspring the ones you have are brilliant!

March 27, 2009 at 3:17 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Lovely_One (anonymous) says...

crankyyankee,

Tell us how you really feel! Care to expand on who you are referring to in your post?

March 27, 2009 at 3:31 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

LocalNerd (anonymous) says...

Cranky...

Perhaps you are from Massachusets where you are smart enough to continually re-elect a Senator that got away with murder.

Or maybe you are a brilliant Buckeye who so polluted your rivers that they actually burst into flames one day.

You could even be one of the financial geniuses from Michigan that created autoworker contracts that have buried the auto industry.

Regardless, please post your address so that I can send you a bumper sticker that says, "We Don't Care How You Did It Up North".

Every state has it good points and bad ones. Even so, your comments cannot be construed as a coherent attempt identifiy legitimate deficiencies in South Carolina.

Be careful about the throwing rocks in your glass house!

March 27, 2009 at 3:38 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

guidedbystewart (anonymous) says...

Cranky,
Your post exemplifies that you are by no means raising the bar intelligence wise in this State. While they may be a collective ignorance with many on this State, intelligence in not relative to geographic area unless there is lead or mercury in the water.

March 27, 2009 at 3:44 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Lovely_One (anonymous) says...

And most of us were born here, you came here by choice....what does that say about your idiotic status....?

March 27, 2009 at 3:51 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

coolfreaknbeans (anonymous) says...

Good post halfsheli ! Those teachers are freakn rolling in money ! Yeah right. Lovely - You addressed my pet peeve, thank you ! Someone who chooses to move here, only to biatch and gripe about how stupid we are and how crappy it is here. Hello!! Move back. Like Eddie Murphy once said," If you don't like it, then get the f out !"

March 27, 2009 at 4:27 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Lovely_One (anonymous) says...

CFB,

I wasn't going to say anything but, like you, that is something that irks my nerves. I am normally on the bandwagon of telling people to go back to wherever they came from, but this is one such time that it is deserving.

March 27, 2009 at 4:41 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Lovely_One (anonymous) says...

Yes, harold, you are correc, yours and crankyyankee's posts are nasty and shameful. I hope you are hanging your bigoted head right now!

March 27, 2009 at 5:01 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Lovely_One (anonymous) says...

Oops...correc = correct!

March 27, 2009 at 5:02 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

20_years_as_a_teacher (anonymous) says...

Private schools or not, parents in failing schools DO have a choice. Fill out the forms and they go elsewhere. I work in one of those schools who accept students from failing schools. Most are students who fail and transfer to my school fail because of BAD BEHAVIOR!

Don't even talk about teachers being in teaching for the money. This person is showing their ignorance.

So are people who want to run schools as businesses. Education IS NOT A BUSINESS. If you spend any time at all in a school you would know that. EACH AND EVERY STUDENT is different and must be treated differently and situations change daily.

I love my 70 hour a week, stress filled job and I love my children, but too many people try to change and or run schools without ever spending enough time in education to know what is happening.

I don't know a teacher against merit pay and other measures IF someone could remove variables. These variables are many and ever changing.

Private school vouchers cannot improve education significantly and is not a magic bullet.

March 27, 2009 at 5:15 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

scienceguy (anonymous) says...

WhatMeWorry:

I think you misunderstood my point--which is--all of us who pay taxes, not just parents with children in private school (the "folks" to whom I was referring)--contribute to projects and programs that do not directly benefit them.

I received my undergraduate degree (in a science discipline) from a private university, yet I neither asked nor expected to be relieved of whatever tax contribution I was making to support public schools. Nor have I ever asked to be relieved of whatever portion of my taxes go to support the Clemson athletic programs. However, I do not understand the logic behind the idea that parents with school-age children should get some special right to control how their taxes are spent when no one else enjoys that right.

March 27, 2009 at 5:54 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Lovely_One (anonymous) says...

Good one blue_eyes!!!!! LMAO

March 27, 2009 at 6:10 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

BlackReign (anonymous) says...

Hey, no school choice for Oakland CA, is working great for those animals out there!

WTH is going on in this country when a rapist and cop murderer, is a hero in the Oakland community? Is it the education system?

21,000 turn out to mourn slain officers

During a conversation with a fellow police officer, who was fostering drug-addicted babies before they were healthy enough for adoption, Hege reveled that he himself was adopted. It was that conversation that convinced his friend to adopt a little girl, Eade said.

http://www.insidebayarea.com/news/oak...

About two dozen people marched through East Oakland to rally in memory of Lovelle Mixon, who shot and killed four Oakland police officers before he was shot down by law enforcement agents not far from where the gathering began Wednesday evening, at MacArthur Boulevard and 79th Avenue.

http://www.insidebayarea.com/news/oak...

THEY HONORED this COP killing scum!

March 27, 2009 at 8:50 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

BlackReign (anonymous) says...

You think school choice might have helped this animal?

In October 2007, Lovelle Mixon was released on parole after serving five years of a six-year sentence for assault with a firearm.
Here is a look at Mixon's interactions with the parole department since his Nov. 1 release from the California Correctional Center in Susanville, as reported by the department :

Nov. 3: Mixon reports to his parole agent for an initial interview and undergoes his first mandatory drug test.

Nov. 5: Mixon reports to Parole and Community Team, a state program that offers a broad range of services to parolees. The agency provides job placement, drug treatment and other services. During the visit, he met with his parole agent and again was tested for drugs.

Nov. 7: Mixon's parole agent makes an initial residential visit, meeting with Mixon at his mother's home in Oakland.
Dec. 17: Mixon's parole agent makes a residential visit, also meeting with one of Mixon's cousins as part of their continuing effort to assess his family situation.

Dec. 19: Mixon reports to the parole office and takes a drug test.

Jan. 6: Mixon reports to the parole office and takes a drug test.

Jan. 23: Mixon's parole agent makes a residential visit and refers Mixon to another employment service, Project Choice Employment.

Feb. 6: Mixon reports to the parole office and takes a drug test.

Feb. 18: Mixon's parole agent makes a residential visit but cannot locate him.

Feb. 24: Mixon's parole agent makes another residential visit but Mixon cannot be located. The agent talks with his mother.

Feb. 26: After another residential visit, the agent still cannot locate Mixon.

Feb. 27: The parole agent prepares a parolee-at-large report and a warrant is issued for Mixon's arrest. The state Board of Parole Hearings suspends Mixon's parole effective Feb. 19, the day after his parole officer first failed to find him. The case is referred to the corrections department's Fugitive Apprehension Team.

March 6: The Fugitive Apprehension Team and members of the Oakland Police Department visit three Oakland addresses, including Mixon's mother's home, his address of record. The following week, they distribute a bulletin to the Oakland Police Department. The case is also referred to the U.S. Marshals Service to check on reports that Mixon might have been in the Auburn, Wash., area. They are unable to locate him.

March 21: Mixon is pulled over by Oakland motorcycle officers for a traffic violation shortly after 1 p.m. Authorities said he began shooting at the officers, killing Sgt. Mark Dunakin, 40, and fatally wounding Officer John Hege, 41. After trying to hide in a nearby apartment building where his sister lives, Mixon kills Oakland SWAT sergeants Ervin Romans, 43, and Daniel Sakai, 35, before he is shot and killed by police.

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-...

March 27, 2009 at 8:52 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

SCdeacinNYC (anonymous) says...

blackreign, first of all this has nothing to do with the article...

secondly, please don't claim that the oakland "community" is supporting this nutcase, the 20 or so people marched the people that marched in support of that murderer, part of a fringe movement called Uhuru (they're also known as the crazy group of black people that heckled Obama back during the campaign..)

Finally, I LOVE how you use the term "animals" to describe the entire community of Oakland. Good job at being subtle there.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uhuru_Mo...

Apparently a lot of their leaders in the Oakland, Philadelphia and St Petersberg area are also crazy white people. Google any photos of these crazies and half of the people protesting about Black liberation and African Power are white people.

Uhuru=Modern Day SLA.

March 27, 2009 at 9:18 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

lloyd007 (anonymous) says...

As stated before..."Politicians make strange bedfellows".Maybe if Robert Ford were to get out of bed with Glen McConnell long enough,he would come to his senses...What a complete loser and pure sell-out..

March 28, 2009 at 12:19 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

yird (anonymous) says...

cranksmokingyankee, Often it is expressed by some on these threads that local folks are not as cordial to the northern immigrants as they should be.

I shall endeavor to convey my thoughts in a civil fashion.

Your slightly less than flattering post telling everyone how stupid their children are is of course met with appreciation.

What would be even more appreciated is if you were to expatriate yourself and express those same sentiments to your fellow yankee friends which may discourage them from moving to this despicable backwater state.

We don't need anymore miserable or disapointed residents adding to our already hyper miserable population.

Thank you for your considerate comment and please leave soon.

March 28, 2009 at 12:58 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

eyfigueroa (anonymous) says...

yird, i could kiss you!

March 28, 2009 at 1:11 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

JoanneH (anonymous) says...

Twenty years as a teacher, THANK YOU.

I am a 30+ as a teacher and have never understood this BS about running schools as a "business." The stupid thing is that no one wants to PAY as a business does. It seems that everyone who has ever occupied a desk in a classroom knows how to run a school. Heck, I watch ER every week, but I can't be a doctor.

And scienceguy, your statement that "...I do not understand the logic behind the idea that parents with school-age children should get some special right to control how their taxes are spent when no one else enjoys that right" is absolutely spot-on.

There are roads all over this state that I have never driven on, but I help pay for them. I have never taken welfare or unemployment, but I help pay for them. I am paying for someone sitting in an ER somewhere in this state right now who doesn't have health insurance.

Why these private/home school parents believe they should have some kind of control smacks of arrogance.

March 28, 2009 at 9:39 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Lovely_One (anonymous) says...

yird, I am in line behind eyfig!!!!!!!!!!!

March 28, 2009 at 11:40 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

yird (anonymous) says...

Ladies, please, my poor antiquated ticker could never stand that much stimulation. UMMM---on the other hand???

March 28, 2009 at 12:07 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

scienceguy (anonymous) says...

JoanneH:

I was not trying to insult anyone--just trying to make the point that we are all in this together and we all need to pull together. We either need to find a way of improving our public schools or we need to find a way to finance construction of a lot more prisons. There are only a limited number of positions available in the fast food and tourist-related service industries and when people can't get work, you can bet they will turn to crime. So, to paraphrase Bob Dylan we better start swimmin' or we'll sink like a stone--the times they are achangin'.

March 28, 2009 at 2:14 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

dxmas (anonymous) says...

"Some say competition from private schools would be good for the public system..." who in the world would make such a statement. S.C. Public schools have to education ALL students. Private schools are at liberty to administer "entrance" tests and/or interviews for students to be admitted. Many private schools have no accomodations for learning disabled students or special needs and public schools' standards say that ALL students will meet or exceed S.C. State Standards.
There is no comparison.

March 28, 2009 at 8:07 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )