Veto blocks new specialties
Lawmakers to decide this week whether to override the governor's decision
By Yvonne Wenger
Provided
This 2008 Delaware license plate was voted the best in the nation by the ALPCA for its balance of appeal and legibility for law enforcement.
COLUMBIA — South Carolina soon could add to the list of 100-plus specialty license plates if legislators allow farmers, nature lovers and green advocates to display their passions on bumpers.
Photo Gallery
License plate hall of shame
Some examples of recent specialty license plate designs that, because of their design, are difficult for law enforcement to read. Courtesy of the Automobile License Plate Collectors Association.
State lawmakers will decide this week whether to override a veto by Gov. Mark Sanford that attempts to block new plates. The governor said groups can go through the Department of Motor Vehicles to create plates and the Legislature should step out of the process.
South Carolina has one of the largest selection of specialty plates, said Tim Stentiford with the Automobile License Plate Collectors Association. The group estimates that 2,000 specialty license plates are in circulation across the country.
Because the specialty plates are more expensive than the standard state plates, Stentiford said they generate money for specific causes. They also are popular because they allow members of the public to express themselves.
"I think it's the 21st-century personal signature," Stentiford said.
The first specialty plates began appearing in 1976 for the country's bicentennial and grew in popularity in the 1980s after Florida issued one in memory of the Challenger spacecraft and California created one for the Olympics, Stentiford said.
The Automobile License Plate Collectors Association has nearly 3,000 members and was established in 1954. Stentiford is editor of PLATES Magazine.
Press release
Read more of the code
SECTION 56-3-8100 Special license plates production and distribution guidelines ... (go to section 56-3-8100)
The plates can either help or hinder law enforcement, Stentiford said. The collectors provided a major lead to Baltimore police last year in the investigation of a murder case, he said. The suspect was driving a white Ford van with a bright orange plate. The group was able to identify the plate from North Carolina's Blue Ridge Parkway.
Eyewitnesses, victims or officers also could easily mix one plate up with a similar one,
Stentiford said. South Carolina's Kiwanis International Foundation and Rotary International plates, for example, look very similar to Pennsylvania's standard plate with gold and blue bars framing a white background.
Despite the huge selection in South Carolina, Jeff Moore, executive director of the S.C. Sheriff's Association, said he is not aware of any problems law enforcement here has had with the variety of plates.
The public can choose between more than 100 plates, but the total variety includes more than 370 plates when tags for commissioners, legislators and other officials are factored in.
For more information
Read Yvonne Wenger's blog entry about the license plates
Should S.C. have so many specialty license plates?, published 6/11/09
The legislation that Sanford vetoed creates plates for "Our Farms-Our Future," "South Carolina Wildlife" and "Reduce, Reuse, Recycle."
The governor made it a point to note that his veto had nothing to do with the merits of those groups.
The Legislature's role in creating the plates has landed the state in court.
A case brought on by Americans United for Separation of Church and State is pending. The group sued the state last June after the Legislature created a tag with the phrase "I Believe" adorned with a cross in front of a stained-glass window. The court action has delayed the issuance of the plates.
The Washington, D.C.-based group argues that the Legislature's decision to create the plates shows a preference by government for Christians.
Provided
The only South Carolina license plate to win the ALPCA's Best License Plate competition was the 1990 wren license plate. For 2008, South Carolina came in 3rd nationally with the sunset plate.
Judging South Carolina's plates
Tim Stentiford took a look through South Carolina's more than 100 specialty license plates and rated them. He is a long-time judge with the Automobile License Plate Collectors Association, and has reviewed more than 5,000 license plate designs since 1999. He is also chairman of the collectors' Best License Plate Award annual competition.
South Carolina won the competition one just once in 1990 for the Wren plate. The state came in third in last year with the new sunrise tags. The best plates have clear registration numbers, color contract and attractive designs.
Stentiford's South Carolina Hall of Fame Tags:
1. United We Stand
2. U.S. Armed Forces
3. Sons of Confederate Veterans
Stentiford's South Carolina Hall of Shame Tags:
1. Converse College
2. Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority, Inc.
3. Aviation Hall of Fame.
Reach Yvonne Wenger at 803-799-9051 or ywenger@postandcourier.com.
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Comments
patlabb (anonymous) says...
I think the WORSE plate and it belongs in the "Hall of Shame" is the SCV plate with the confederate flag on it. It is an insult to people of color. The War has been over for 150 years..stop flying the flag on cars.
June 15, 2009 at 6:34 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
ForPnC (anonymous) says...
The new sunrise plate needs trashed. It's Fugly.
June 15, 2009 at 6:52 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Jagolet (anonymous) says...
Yeah, patlabb, the war has been over a long and Martin Luther King has been dead a long time too! There's nothing wrong for any color to remember their heritage.
June 15, 2009 at 6:56 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
theronce (anonymous) says...
It seems that I remember that the citizens had an opportunity to vote on one of three. I did not like any of them and liked this one, the winner, the least. I agree that the legislature needs to stay out of this, let DMV do its job. I also think that the gov has no business telling the legislature what to do. I guess I'm against all of them for wasting our time.
June 15, 2009 at 7:01 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
realamerican (anonymous) says...
If Sanford is against this then it must be a good thing.
Override his veto as usual. Screw Sanford!
Let him reap the ill will he has sown.
June 15, 2009 at 7:22 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
SCGirl0901 (anonymous) says...
With all of these specialty plates, they ought to save all the time and money devoted to new plates and voting on them.. Just let people design their own.. Of course with some type of approval process to avoid obscene stuff.. There's already over 100 now.. what's the difference.
I bet people could come up with some better looking plates then we've had in the past - or now.
June 15, 2009 at 7:43 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
watchdog (anonymous) says...
Its not heritage Jagolet, The Civil War was a wrongful act, not heritage. Learn your history man.IT WAS A WAR>>>>>>
June 15, 2009 at 8 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
realamerican (anonymous) says...
Save your breath watchdog.
The "heritage" ploy is just how the racists try to justify themselves.
I bet folks that have those license plates are always having flat tires and scratched up cars. It must be because of their heritage. LoL
June 15, 2009 at 8:12 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
jselsey1 (anonymous) says...
Lets change the handicap tag to something bright.It is drab and dull.There should not be a charge for the handicap tag either.For the most of us we did not asked to be Handicaped
June 15, 2009 at 8:39 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
nopartisan_noproblem (anonymous) says...
Watchdog, are you really going to call someone out on learning the history, when you honestly believe that we fought the civil war over slavery. Next thing you're gonna say is Lincoln freed the slaves.
June 15, 2009 at 9:02 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mb300sl (anonymous) says...
I have a golf tag on my car...does that mean I'm a racist bigot? Oh well...
June 15, 2009 at 9:08 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
postman01 (anonymous) says...
What a completely stupid debate. We have one poster saying if Sanford opposes it, it must be a good idea, which is a retarded methology for assessing anything.
Some other posts, like patlabb's, are primitive, paranoid, and inferior. If this poster feels threatened by ANY license plate, he/she needs mental help yesterday.
Then some of the others try to fake being profound and talk about "history". No one ever gained anything profound, including a truly impressive knowledge of "history", from reading a license plate.
Ever heard of the seven sins, people? While I'm not thumping anything, these are VANITY tags. Those to whom vanity tags are actually important are VAIN, a serious emotional, intellectual, and MORAL shortcoming. The sole important and valid purpose of license tags is to identify the legal owner of a motor vehicle to authorities.
This does not apply to the theronce or jagolet. Their's were quality posts.
June 15, 2009 at 9:15 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
realamerican (anonymous) says...
Postman01, you are a retard therefore your argument is invalid.
June 15, 2009 at 9:26 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
ltgrunt (anonymous) says...
Postman, in the specific context of displaying a specialized license plate on a vehicle, "vanity" isn't being used in quite the same way as in the bible. In this case it's a method of expressing individuality, and individuality isn't an emotional, intellectual or moral shortcoming. While I think the number of tags available is excessive, especially given the fact that bumper stickers are cheaper and much easier to obtain, I will say that you should keep your morality to yourself.
While Patlabb's view is a bit on the far side, I do believe that no agency of this state's government should stamp that flag on anything. An official endorsement by the state of everything that flag stood for and was used to rally troops in battle for contradicts the unity and equality that we're all constantly working toward. That would be as bad as the misbegotten idiots who heckle, berate and threaten parades on MLK day while waving that flag like a filthy, hate-inspiring rag.
Nopartisan, I have to disagree with your assertion that the war wasn't about slavery when the vice president of the Confederacy made a great to-do about the secession and the war being caused by Northern hostility toward the institution of slavery. Most of the "states' rights" issues that the Confederate leaders mentioned revolved around states' supposed rights to mandate slavery and not pay taxes on human labor. They also didn't want to pay taxes to build infrastructure like bridges and ports in other states, even if it was of direct benefit to their own states' industries. That whole "we're going to do it our own way and not give or send anything to each other" attitude turned out to be another nail in the coffin for the Confederate war effort.
June 15, 2009 at 9:49 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
vmirat90 (anonymous) says...
actually, vanity is NOT one of the 7 deadly sins. Here they are:
Pride, envy, wrath, sloth, avarice, gluttony, and lust.
Thanks to my 11th grade honors English teacher for requiring us to learn them.
June 15, 2009 at 9:52 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Lovely_One (anonymous) says...
I agree with Gov. Sanford. If they want the plates, let them go through the proper channels with the SC DMV and let the government stay out of it. We already have state issued license plates and that's all we need the state to be involved in. They are wasting time and money on this mess.
June 15, 2009 at 9:53 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Lovely_One (anonymous) says...
For those that don't know, avarice is excessive greed.
June 15, 2009 at 9:55 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
nappyd (anonymous) says...
While I'm all for these as long as they're profitable and generate revenue for the state, aren't there reports that show that vehicles with special interest tags and/or personalized tags are more likely to be stolen or broken into than those without them?
June 15, 2009 at 10:24 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
watchdog (anonymous) says...
Nonpartisan noproblem, what are you talking about? Who mentioned slavery? Now that you have, what do you think caused the civil war? What an idiot..... This is why my state is in last place, I am sorry DEAD LAST ... Because of banana republic thinking people like yourself...
June 15, 2009 at 10:27 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
iceman1978 (anonymous) says...
I've got the sea turlte plate on my car. The Surfrider Foundation has a license plate too.
June 15, 2009 at 10:40 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
singleroni (anonymous) says...
AS BILL CROSBY SAID MORE BLACK MEN ARE IN CHAINS RELYING ON THE WHITE MAN TO TAKE CARE OF HIM THAN EVER BEFORE.
THEY ARE IN PRISON FROM THEIR OWN DOING
June 15, 2009 at 11:13 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
firemike (anonymous) says...
I say we should have a plate that states "have you hugged a DMV employee today?". For the picture have someone siting behind a desk looking confused and miserable punching the "next" button. :-)
June 15, 2009 at 11:47 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Lovely_One (anonymous) says...
Posted by singleroni on June 15, 2009 at 11:13 a.m. (Suggest removal)
AS BILL CROSBY SAID MORE BLACK MEN ARE IN CHAINS RELYING ON THE WHITE MAN TO TAKE CARE OF HIM THAN EVER BEFORE.
THEY ARE IN PRISON FROM THEIR OWN DOING
***********************************************************
WTF????!!!!
June 15, 2009 at 12:17 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
kostanza (anonymous) says...
how about 'I love panda's'? because I REEALLY do! And it is my right to display my love of this fluffy mammal for all to see. They're so black and white and cuddly looking...mmmmm black and white
June 15, 2009 at 12:24 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
iceman1978 (anonymous) says...
Posted by firemike on June 15, 2009 at 11:47 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I say we should have a plate that states "have you hugged a DMV employee today?". For the picture have someone siting behind a desk looking confused and miserable punching the "next" button. :-)
--------
How about two women sitting behind the desk smoking?
They could have a caption that would read
"Sometimes we don't let the line move at all. We call those...weekdays."
June 15, 2009 at 12:28 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
jcncamscott (anonymous) says...
Why not just have ONE freakin' SC plate that everyone can recognize? I've had a 'vanity' plate before and really don't know why. Extra money spent on a license plate I never again thought about after I put it on my car!!!
June 15, 2009 at 12:29 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
yird (anonymous) says...
This is sheer childish stupidity which resulted from people stupid enough to fork out extra (hard earned?) cash so they can let everybody who happens to notice, that they place little value on their money.
The only justification for a specialized plate that I can think of is if it's business related.
For instance, an air conditioning service might have a tag reading, COOL OFF, a flowers shop, FLOWERS,or a handyman HANDY 1, or some such relatively inexpensive advertising for their particular business.
Other than some practical reason for a specialty tag there is none unless ego boosting is considered a necessity!
Our legislators sure have a lot to do, don't they?
June 15, 2009 at 12:50 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
kostanza (anonymous) says...
yird, or our love of panda's!
June 15, 2009 at 1:07 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
firemike (anonymous) says...
yeah, cause panda's are cute!
June 15, 2009 at 1:16 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
nopartisan_noproblem (anonymous) says...
"The Civil War was a wrongful act, not heritage. Learn your history man.IT WAS A WAR>>>>>>", I'm sorry watchdog for some odd reason I thought that was in reference to slavery.
June 15, 2009 at 1:38 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
usna04 (anonymous) says...
I'm a fan of horses myself.
June 15, 2009 at 1:51 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
kostanza (anonymous) says...
oooh here we go the horse lovers are putting their oar in, next thing you know the 'Coalition for Koala love' will be jumping on the bandwagon as usual, shoving us downtrodden panda lover's to the back of the line...it's always the same, just typical!!
June 15, 2009 at 2:01 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Lovely_One (anonymous) says...
"I'm a fan of horses myself."
I'm sorry. At first glance I saw "I'm a fan of whores myself." I need a nap!
June 15, 2009 at 2:09 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
PalmettoDP (anonymous) says...
I don't see why everyone (except vanity plate owners) had to get a new license plate over the last year or so. It would have saved a lot of money if the new plates were just phased in when a new car was registered or an old one changed hands. I believe that's the way Georgia does it.
June 15, 2009 at 2:09 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
usna04 (anonymous) says...
haha. Easy kostanza, I really like pandas too!!
And Lovely_One - go take that nap!!!!!!
:)
June 15, 2009 at 2:11 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
vmirat90 (anonymous) says...
yird..finally something you and I completely agree on. I have never understood the mentality of "hey, look at me!" As far as I'm concerned, it's for the very insecure. I think it's to compensate for a shortcoming somewhere else.
June 15, 2009 at 2:37 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Numba10 (anonymous) says...
The flag is not an insult to anyone it is an Honor to those who served the South in the battle of States rights. Those rights which we see trampled on everyday by the federal government. Many say the south, lost get over it. When in reality all states lost thier states rights. The civil war was a wrongfull act on the part of the US government. It refused to acknowledge the will of the vote in the states in secession. Read the Declaration of Independece it sets the rule of people being able to dissolve and form a new government.
June 15, 2009 at 2:38 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
vmirat90 (anonymous) says...
I can appreciate what you're saying numba...but I hate to let you know that we are governed by the constitution, not the Declaration of Independence.
June 15, 2009 at 2:41 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
eyfigueroa (anonymous) says...
"how about 'I love panda's'? because I REEALLY do! And it is my right to display my love of this fluffy mammal for all to see. They're so black and white and cuddly looking...mmmmm black and white"
Okay that was HILARIOUS!!!
June 15, 2009 at 2:47 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
charlestonnative1963 (anonymous) says...
I agree with realamerican...If Sanford is against it, I'm all for it...he is usually wrong on every angle
June 15, 2009 at 2:49 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Numba10 (anonymous) says...
Where does the Constitution prohibit a state from dissolving its Union with the US?----
June 15, 2009 at 2:49 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Numba10 (anonymous) says...
I said the dec of Independence sets the rule for dissolution---nothing about governance.
June 15, 2009 at 2:51 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
charlestonnative1963 (anonymous) says...
Only in SC can such a discussion turn racial
June 15, 2009 at 2:51 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Lovely_One (anonymous) says...
If [Obama] is against this then it must be a good thing.
Override his veto as usual. Screw [Obama]!
Let him reap the ill will he has sown.
Somehow I think that the person that wrote the earlier version would be screaming racism had this meen the actual post by a poster of another color. How hypocritical is that?
June 15, 2009 at 2:54 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Lovely_One (anonymous) says...
meen = been
Going to take that nap now.
P.S. There is a wonderful story in today's paper about a woman doing what many of the posters here have been crying about for the longest and it only has 3 comments....Not controversial enough I guess:
http://www.postandcourier.com/news/20...
June 15, 2009 at 2:57 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Numba10 (anonymous) says...
Charleston native obviosly you are not getting out much this type of racial nonsense is prevalent in the entire country---whether it is white, black, yellow, red, gay, straight or what ever---the ignorant will always turn to that thot over any issue
June 15, 2009 at 2:57 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mypointofview (anonymous) says...
"Posted by patlabb on June 15, 2009 at 6:34 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I think the WORSE plate and it belongs in the "Hall of Shame" is the SCV plate with the confederate flag on it. It is an insult to people of color. The War has been over for 150 years..stop flying the flag on cars."
You're right! The war HAS been over for 150 years. So take those ridiculous "Chains" license plate frames off your cars.
June 15, 2009 at 3:10 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
nopartisan_noproblem (anonymous) says...
The constitution was not established to "govern" or set limits on the people. It was created to set limitations or "govern" the U.S. government. Get it right Vmirat
June 15, 2009 at 3:36 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
kostanza (anonymous) says...
racial harmony is best displayed by the panda, he is black and white........and asian. Like the Tiger Woods of the animal kingdom!
June 15, 2009 at 3:36 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
firemike (anonymous) says...
PalmettoDP I don't know why I had to get a new plate this year either.
June 15, 2009 at 3:55 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
CNSYD (anonymous) says...
patlabb, watchdog, realamerican, et al, I hate to have to educate you folks on what should have learned in school but here goes. In 1844 the planters around Bluffton, SC became angered by Federal tariffs which were making the goods they imported from abroad excessively expensive. Out of this discontent grew the "Bluffton Movement." Incensed planters gathered beneath what became known as the "Secession Oak" and the secessionist movement was born. Sixteen years later South Carolina became the first state to secede from the Union. Damn, it wasn't over slavery? Why that sure messes up the Yankee argument. Why those guys in Bluffton sound like...dare we say it? a bunch of Libertarians.
June 15, 2009 at 4:07 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
ltgrunt (anonymous) says...
CNSYD, then why exactly is it that Confederate vice president specified to such a great degree the importance of the slavery question in the Cornerstone Speech? That speech listed the reasons for secession and the Confederate cause in the war, and placed the institution of slavery and Norther "hostility" toward it paramount above any and all states' rights and taxation issues.
Said Stephens: "(Jefferson's) ideas, however, were fundamentally wrong. They rested upon the assumption of the equality of races. This was an error. ... Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite idea; its foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery - subordination to the superior race - is his natural and normal condition."
Stephens then went on to list estimates on the value of all of the taxable property that the Confederacy was composed of, and made no promise to not engage in tariffs and taxes on imports and exports.
It's a nice and comforting modern view to uphold that the Civil War wasn't about slavery, but that's revisionist history. Slavery was a very big factor in the development of the secession and the war. Much of the "states' rights" argument was brought about after secession, and specifically to vindicate the secession. The problems with the tariff of 1842 were rendered mostly moot when it was repealed in 1846 and replaced with the much less protective Walker Tariff, which was primarily supported by Southern Democrats (remember, Democrat and Republican party roles were switched back then). The Bluffton movement was also more closely related to Calhoun's failed presidential nomination bid than tariff issues.
June 15, 2009 at 4:27 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
nopartisan_noproblem (anonymous) says...
You're ruining the governments indoctrination of our children CNSYD. We must obey what they say, obey what they say. Drones!!!
June 15, 2009 at 4:29 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
vmirat90 (anonymous) says...
Lighten up, nonpartisan- telling me to get it right...I know what the constitution is, and that is a blueprint, so don't take that condescending tone with me, young man.
June 15, 2009 at 4:37 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
CNSYD (anonymous) says...
ltgrunt, it is an old axiom that victors get to write the history. So you have bought the victor's history hook, line and sinker. Do you think for one minute that the upstate Scotch-Irish of the 1860s cared one whit about slavery? It did not involve them. But the subjugation of the state to the federal government was what they opposed. Remember the 10th ammendment? As regards Jefferson. When he wrote "all men are greated equal", do you think he meant females? If so, why didn't he say "people" in lieu of "men"? I doubt he gave equality of women a thought. Anyway, if he was so interested in equality of all people, how did Sally Hemmings fit into his views?
June 15, 2009 at 4:50 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
ltgrunt (anonymous) says...
Jefferson spoke at length on the necessity and undeniable difficulty of finding a way to integrate blacks as equals into American society.
"ltgrunt, it is an old axiom that victors get to write the history. So you have bought the victor's history hook, line and sinker."
The "victors" didn't write Stephens' Cornerstone Speech. As I said, it's comforting to believe that the Civil War wasn't about slavery, but a very large part of it really was.
"Do you think for one minute that the upstate Scotch-Irish of the 1860s cared one whit about slavery? It did not involve them."
It upheld the social order and economic status of their state. Even those who didn't own slaves in the South frequently supported the institution as they were reluctant to throw away the economic benefits that came from profiting off the labor of human property.
"But the subjugation of the state to the federal government was what they opposed. Remember the 10th ammendment?"
The issue of states' rights was discussed more often after secession than beforehand. Additionally, most of the discussions of states' rights before secession revolved around - what? - you guessed it, the "peculiar institution" of slavery.
Also, the 10th Amendment guarantees rights to the states, but I doubt it can ethically or morally be used to support the "peculiar institution."
June 15, 2009 at 5:03 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
CNSYD (anonymous) says...
The "peculiar institution" to which you refer, is it the one wherein African war lords rounded up people to sell to the slave traders of English and Dutch background at port towns? Or is it the genocide now occurring in Africa over "tribal" differences that often also results in slavery? I don't believe you can lay all the sins of mankind comfortably at the feet of we Southerners (assuming you are one). Was it slavery as an ethical and moral problem that the caused the to be North so opposed or the fact that it provided a possible economic benefit to the South? I choose to believe the latter. That does not make slavery ethically or morally correct. I just fail to believe that all those in the North were mounted on white horses of ethics or morality.
June 15, 2009 at 5:21 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
vuduchld (anonymous) says...
It seems like you pilgrims have nothing better to do than dress your pick up trucks with silly license plates. This thinking and behavior is the result of excessive inbreeding among brain dead zombies who don't care about themselves or their states future. When will folks wake up!? With your state being last in almost every category except stupidity it would seem like your citizens would be thinking of ways to solve problems. This is a new century people, get with the program, we're sick and tired of supporting you dead bolts!!
June 15, 2009 at 5:35 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
vuduchld (anonymous) says...
CNSYD
For all your "intellectual" concepts on slavery, could you please use your same lame thought process to explain Jim Crow!
June 15, 2009 at 5:38 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
shoelaces (anonymous) says...
Umm...for those of you on the Confedrate flag plate rant...
Who do you think was buying the goods made in the south by slaves? It wasn't poor white southerners!! The North played its part in supporting slavery by purchasing items made in the south by slaves.
I have ancestors who fought in both the American Revolution and the War of Northern Aggression. Both battles were fought for independence. Too bad my ancestors would HATE to see the way the country has gone lately.
I don't like the current plate. I didn't like the palm tree plate. I liked the Carolina Wren plate and the one that said "South Carolina, smiling faces, beautiful places."
If people want to spend extra TAX dollars on a vanity plate then let them do it.
Any "real" news out there today? Anything?
June 15, 2009 at 5:38 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
shoelaces (anonymous) says...
CNSYD "I just fail to believe that all those in the North were mounted on white horses of ethics or morality."
I agree. If the North was not hell bent on destroying the South then explain why Sherman salted acres and acres of Southern farmland on his March to the Sea. If the North was not hell bent on destroying the Soth, then explain why Northern soldiers looted homes of Southerners during the battles.
Nobody wants to delve into the REAL history...it's not pretty. I would think this discussion would have ended years ago. Why is it people continue to bring it up?
There were plenty of black Confederate soldiers (for many reasons) but my argument has always been that blacks should be equally proud of their heritage during that time in history....after all, the South was built on the backs of slaves...somehow there should be some pride in knowing that is part of someone's history???
June 15, 2009 at 5:44 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
CNSYD (anonymous) says...
vuchild, Jim Crow was wrong. It was a reaction to what the South felt had been the retribution of the North against them during Reconstruction. BTW the prejudicial interstate commerce rates imposed by the North on the South that lasted well into the 20th century were designed to maintain economic dominance. Also if conditions here are so unspeakable to you, may I suggest you take I-95 north to the land of milk and honey?
June 15, 2009 at 5:57 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
ltgrunt (anonymous) says...
CNSYD, the willingness of Africans to sell each other into bondage doesn't excuse whites having bought and abused them.
Shoelaces, the British Empire bought more of the agricultural goods that were produced by slave labor than the Northern states did. There was agriculture in the North, after all.
"I agree. If the North was not hell bent on destroying the South then explain why Sherman salted acres and acres of Southern farmland on his March to the Sea. If the North was not hell bent on destroying the Soth, then explain why Northern soldiers looted homes of Southerners during the battles."
Sherman destroyed crops, agriculture and industry to bring a quick end to the war. There were no orders to loot homes, and any soldiers engaged in those activities were acting against direct orders and accepted international battlefield conduct. Additionally, there are incidents of Southern soldiers doing the same.
June 15, 2009 at 6:03 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
CNSYD (anonymous) says...
ltgrunt, the point of my discussion of the slave trade was NOT to justify it but to show that there were many more folk involved in it directly or indirectly than just those south of the Mason-Dixon. For them to all of a sudden to be morally outraged was a sham, ala Captain Renault. As regards Sherman, what agriculture and industry was housed in the state house of SC or in Old Sheldon Church in Beaufort County?
June 15, 2009 at 6:37 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
firemike (anonymous) says...
I so happy that I was lucky enough to be educated by a history professor at USC that was a devout civil war historian. He made us read books about the subject so we wouldn't be tainted by his personal opinion. He thought, and I have to agree, that one of the biggest reasons we went to war is because we (southerners) didn't want others to tell us what to do (or force us what to do). State before country was the cry. I have to admit I myself can understand where they were coming from. Every few days I here the statement "that's not how we did it up North". Anyway I do believe the whole "the war was over slavery" argument is a shallow one.
Whether I'm wrong or write is irrelevant. The rebel flag make people feel uncomfortable. The same as if black folks had a picture of a white man in a noose on their license plate. So what's the lesson? No custom license plate pictures. If you want people to know what your passionate about buy a bumper sticker.
June 15, 2009 at 6:45 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
shoelaces (anonymous) says...
CNSYD...good points, thanks!!
FIREMIKE....As I was reading the last paragraph of your post, I was thinking, bumper sticker....YOU ARE RIGHT!! And you can remove those but are stuck with a vanity plate.
I still believe in states' rights.....and the right of the people...our legislators are supposed to work for us, not the other way around!!
Thomas Paine's Common Sense should be published in mass and become required reading for ALL....although that would go against peoples' rights.
June 15, 2009 at 6:55 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
CNSYD (anonymous) says...
firemike, how dare you interject logic as regards what was behind the war! IRT the flag, there were many different flags. The one that seems to stir the objection was the "battle flag". Are the other ones equally a problem? I don't know, I am just wondering. Since the new occupants of the White House have moved in I have heard many national news folk say it was a "house built by slaves". If so, why isn't it objectionable? But if the point is one of pride, then why is there no pride in the fact that there may be a Confederate flag on the grounds but there are decendants of slaves inside elected to the legislature?
June 15, 2009 at 6:58 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
shoelaces (anonymous) says...
Wonder how much of OUR tax payer dollars this is costing us??? So much for anybody's rights!!
June 15, 2009 at 7:16 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
CNSYD (anonymous) says...
shoelaces, I may be entirely wrong but I thought that the "rules" on specialty plates was that they paid for themselves, thus the higher cost. So it would seem, if that is correct, that the number of different ones would not matter.
June 15, 2009 at 7:36 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
kostanza (anonymous) says...
This just in..Gov. Sanford has agreed in principle to a new bill proposed by the 'Coalition for Koala Love'(CKL) that all images of panda's be removed from all government buildings and public spaces in favor of the Koala, and hereby pledge that all 'Panda Love clubs' be barred from meeting on said government property....looks like the CKL is using it's political strong arm tactics again!!
June 15, 2009 at 8:09 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
firemike (anonymous) says...
Please understand CNSYD I used to medal detect and I have a full reenactment outfit. My walls are littered with Civil war memorabilia. I even have that civil war chest set. All I'm saying is if you leave it up to the government (who chooses the company that runs the DMV) to choose vanity plates they will screw it up. So the smarter thing is less government. One plate for all (unless your handicapped, a senator, or a government vehicle)! If you want to put a flag sticker on your vehicle go for it brother! Heck wrap your whole car in civil war stickers. It's still not illegal (for right now).
June 15, 2009 at 9:04 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
CNSYD (anonymous) says...
firemike, I hear some senate and house members don't want their plates as they think it makes them a target.
June 15, 2009 at 9:09 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
firemike (anonymous) says...
A target for what - Not getting parking tickets, DUI's, and traffic tickets?
June 15, 2009 at 11:29 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
CNSYD (anonymous) says...
firemike, mostly one finger salutes.
June 15, 2009 at 11:42 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
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