Q&A with Jon Zumalt
The Post and Courier
North Charleston Police Chief Jon Zumalt (right) takes part in a round-table discussion on immigration reform.
Previous story
Zumalt joins call for reform, published 06/12/09
EDITOR'S NOTE: North Charleston Police Chief Jon Zumalt joined with chiefs from Austin, Texas, and Topeka, Kansas, and a former Sacramento, Calif., chief to urge comprehensive immigration reform and to underscore how it would keep their streets safer. He talked with reporter Robert Behre about why he has jumped into the debate.
P&C: Specifically, what would you like the president and Congress to do to reform immigration?
Zumalt: "The key elements are controlling our borders so we have knowledge of anybody who is coming into our country. The next step is making sure we can document and identify everybody who is in our country. And the next step is those whom we identify who are criminals, we've got to get them deported. Then we have a need for a workforce, so getting some work visas and opportunities for following the rules of citizenship would help."
P&C: Do you plan to do anything else to inject yourself into the national immigration-reform debate, such as testifying before Congress?
Zumalt: "I will if I'm asked."
P&C: What are the problems from your perspective?
Zumalt: "You've got to look through the eyes of the police officer in North Charleston. They're running into a great number of people out on the streets of this city who have no identification. ... If they're engaged in misconduct, it's very, very difficult to process them. And with those who are victimized, it's very difficult to process the case because we have a difficult time knowing who the victim is. We've had a death in the past where it took a significant time to identify the victim.
"Another problem is they're working in the community (and) carrying cash, and they have no place to put it, so that puts them in a position to be victimized. They're not citizens. They can't get driver's licenses but they're trying to get to work. All these issues point back to the need for proper identification and going through the right steps to the point where they can be here legally."
P&C: Is there anything the state could or should do to improve matters?
Zumalt: "In North Charleston, we're working through the Mexican Consulate, looking at some way of getting good, valid identification for the immigrants in our city who came from Mexico. That's going to go a long way toward solving the problems for our officers on the street. They'll know who they're dealing with. That would be something statewide that would help."
P&C: Do you have an estimate of the number of illegal immigrants living and working in North Charleston, and are their numbers rising?
Zumalt: "We estimate that we have somewhere between 5,000 and 7,000 immigrants in North Charleston. ... I don't see that this population has been increasing over the last year because the construction economy has declined, and that was the primary draw."
P&C: Last fall, federal agents in the Lowcountry arrested more than two dozen illegal immigrants with gang ties. Many were from North Charleston. Would immigration reform help police fight these types of gangs?
Zumalt: "Absolutely. Transnational gangs are penetrating our borders. The classic case you have is when an immigrant community moves in, they have to carry cash. And then they'll go to the MS-13 gang or another gang to protect them, and the gang gets entrenched. Then the immigrants become involved in the gang themselves and participate in the criminal behaviors, and it spins out on you."
"What I am seeing is because of the economy, there's been a shift. Instead of being the victims of crime, more immigrants are being participants in criminal behavior. They're out of work. They're hungry, and they're going down that path."
P&C: Do you think your position on immigration mirrors what other local police chiefs think? Have you talked with them about this issue?
Zumalt: "I know all of them personally, and they all believe in human rights and the protection of human liberties. ... As far as solutions moving forward, I haven't sat down and visited with my peers in the Lowcountry about that."
P&C: Have you received criticism for saying these immigrants who are crime victims deserve the same treatment as citizens who are crime victims? If so, how do you respond?
Zumalt: "I probably do get some criticism for that, but my argument is that if somebody robs an immigrant, they're a criminal. Are they going to rob someone else? I think that's a likelihood. I've got to get those weeds out of the garden. If the illegal immigrant can identify who did it, then that's going to help us reduce overall crime."
P&C: Are you concerned that such comments will make North Charleston a sanctuary city, or at least create that perception?
Zumalt: "I'm kind of in a box here. I can't allow people to be victimized. My belief system will not allow this to happen, and yet through no fault of mine we have a good-size immigrant population here. That's what really puts me in a box. Until we have national reform that can contain our borders, it's going to seem I have a sanctuary. That's something I just can't help."
P&C: Do you feel police could do more to identify and arrest those immigrants who are in this country illegally? Why or why not?
Zumalt: "You should be here legally. I never go up and do a talk in front of a (Latino) group without making that point. I'm totally in favor of everybody in this country to be here legally or have a legal right to be here."
"We do everything we can out on the streets, but we have language barriers. I don't have the workforce. We've done what we can to get our officers to a point where they have fundamental Spanish skills, but that's a big part of the problem — just communication."
P&C: How many bilingual officers do you have?
Zumalt: "I'm authorized for 325 sworn (officers), and I have less than 20 (bilingual officers)."
P&C: What might happen in five years if nothing changes?
Zumalt: "It's going to escalate. ... I believe our crime is going to continue to increase. I'm very concerned about the threat of gang intrusion and the establishment of Latino street gangs. Those are some of the real concerns that I have."
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Comments
TRODI (anonymous) says...
P&C: How many bilingual officers do you have?
Zumalt: "I'm authorized for 325 sworn (officers), and I have less than 20 (bilingual officers)."
Sounds like some people need to learn english or whats left of it.i wouldnt go to the Philippines and not try to learn some Tagalog.
June 14, 2009 at 12:54 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
malthus (anonymous) says...
Beat me to it TRODI, Part of being here legally is knowing enough of the language to function. Zumalt is on one partially correct path here, everyone here should be here legally and paying taxes. Find the illegal communities have them documented and start taxing them at an increased rate. Pass anti-gang ordinances, criminal gangs can be labeled as terrorist groups and incarcerated with conspiracy to commit a crime. I'm sure the Rico laws used to tear apart the mafia would be highly effective. If a crime can be linked to that gang charge every member that you can find. Hit clubs that cater to gangs and shut them down. Enforce no bond status for gang members and those who associate with gangs or have gang tattoos. At first it would be a massive surge in jail population but soon it will no longer be cool or hip to be in a gang and gangs will avoid North Charleston.
June 14, 2009 at 1:32 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
singleroni (anonymous) says...
IF YOU ARE NOT GOING TO ENFORCE THE LAWS THEN QUIT
WALMART MIGHT NEED A SECURITY GUARD
June 14, 2009 at 6:17 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Eye_on_You (anonymous) says...
Q: Zumalt what are you going to do about hit and run accidents?
A: Just sit on my duff and hope it just goes away.
June 14, 2009 at 7:06 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
lillycollette (anonymous) says...
It is of course a comfort to me that all of our local chiefs of police believe in human rights and the protection of human liberties.
It is an outrageous crime that innocent citizens who are victimized by sham judicial process have ALL of their rights and liberties ignored.
June 14, 2009 at 7:35 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
lillycollette (anonymous) says...
PS://
= man
= woman
June 14, 2009 at 7:38 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
McBear (anonymous) says...
This PD, and all others, should work closely with ICE. A person without identification is probably an illegal, and needs to be turned over to ICE. That would be doing something....because it sounds like not much gets done.
June 14, 2009 at 8:05 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
MC29461 (anonymous) says...
It is hard for me to believe that North Charleston's city council is supportive of Chief Zumalt's pie-in-the-sky notions of immigration reform.
North Charleston has long been a haven for drug dealers and violent street gangs. Add the illegal immigrants and it now transforming into a third world killing field where the illegal gangs are in direct competition with the local gangs. In Los Angeles, the Latino gangs are systemically cleaning their neighborhoods of black gangs at the point of a gun and no one is able to stop the process.
Chief Zumalt is just another political administrator who is jumping on the reform bandwagon in hopes of getting a federal appointment or moving on to a larger jurisdiction and leaving his mess for the locals to clean up.
North Charleston Police Department has always required a leader who is both highly educated and had the intestinal fortitude to empower his officers to go out and get the job done while not violating suspects civil rights.
Chief Zumalt has none of these basic traits as a leader and has risen to the top in several departments by playing the political game. Now it is up to the elected city officials and their voters to decide if "immigration reform" is right way to proceed.
However, evidence has shown in all other major cities that is has NOT worked, but Chief Zumalt might be able to lead the council down the primrose path as they seem too involved in other issues to consider the cancer of crime that is consuming North Charleston.
June 14, 2009 at 8:13 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
moonpie (anonymous) says...
No identification then call in "ICE" and force their hand. They are here illegally, period. We can't just pull into Mexico and stay there (not that I would want to)!
Great one from the "EYE". This has happened more than once to family members too. Hit, break and run that's all they know. Until we take to the streets and run them out ourselves nothing will ever change.
June 14, 2009 at 8:30 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
lillycollette (anonymous) says...
ICE? Vot is dis ICE?
I have raised verified violations of Document and Benefit Fraud to ICE and every other jack-leg puppy down the pike only to be informed that nothing could be done. Go figure :
http://www.ice.gov/partners/idbenfrau...
Document and Benefit Fraud Task Forces
(Maybe the -- ICE -- melted.)
June 14, 2009 at 9:14 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Speedy (anonymous) says...
It's easy to sit at your computer and say, "Take them to jail! Deport them! Call ICE!"
There are no immigration laws enforceable by local law enforcement. Therefore, the police cannot arrest illegals for being illegal.
ICE does not seem to be overly concerned with showing up to deal with illegals. They usually just deal with the worst criminals after they have been arrested on other felony charges. You can't just call ICE every time an illegal is caught driving without a license.
I am all for the program with the consulate to get ID cards for all of the illegals.
I am agitated with all of the illegals, but I also realize that they are here to stay. Unless all of this stimulus money goes to round up and deport them, the illegals aren't going anywhere.
June 14, 2009 at 9:44 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
KidYendor (anonymous) says...
This is what you get when products and instructions are labeled and written in English and Espanol and the English instruction writing becomes so small you need a magnifying glass. This is what you get when illegals get to enroll their kids in schools. Medical field personnel need to tell stories of illegal alien healthcare. This is what you get. It is too late and like Rome we shall fall.
June 14, 2009 at 11:01 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Chicago_Thug (anonymous) says...
and the beat goes on
June 14, 2009 at 11:11 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
moonpie (anonymous) says...
I'm afraid the "kid" is right. We will fall.
June 14, 2009 at 1:20 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Grinder (anonymous) says...
ICE, in its current configuration, is useless at the local level. And as stated above, local law enforcement needs the legal tools to deal with illegals - as it is, they do not have the laws to enforce nor the manpower to process those arrested if they did.
How about this - screen the unemployed, hire those who get through as immigration police, patrol the border in heavy numbers and start sending the illegals home. How to pay for it? With the Obamanistas' stimulus dollars. At least it would be going to something useful. Once they're gone, and the economy turns around, immigration enforcement officers would get preferred status in the job lines.
Works for me.
June 14, 2009 at 1:20 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
GAL2000 (anonymous) says...
P&C: Does your standard operating procedures (SOP's) or policies, include having your officers staying fit? Similar to the Military standards. I ask this question, because of the rising healthcare cost, and the high mortality rates of officers once they do decide to retire. When I first came into the military in post war vietnam era, there were not many healthy life style choices...over the years and before I retired, the military went on a healthy campaign to get the troops fit, and recognize a healthier lifestyle. My old "Rations" once had two cigarettes inside (I never smoked), and the MRE's did not have cigarettes.
I just see a lot of your officers that are not fit, and a few who cannot see past there stomachs to view their own feet. I see even your Mayor has taken steps to reduce his weight, and live a better lifestyle, which I give him credit for doing this. That is a start to be a good role model, and your apearance is fit as well.
June 14, 2009 at 5:05 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
membermike (anonymous) says...
dear cheif will u pleaz stop being a pimp thanks.....
June 14, 2009 at 8:06 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
malthus (anonymous) says...
"There are no immigration laws enforceable by local law enforcement. Therefore, the police cannot arrest illegals for being illegal."
Speedy you are right in a way, however there are laws that allow officers to take away the havens that cater to illegal aliens. Prosecute employers and fine them for every illegal they employ. Revoke their licenses, and make the prospect of hiring an illegal too costly to imagine. Prosecute gangs as a whole, not just the individual, bring conspiracy charges against the members and charge every member for any action caused by the gang. This would force ICE to intervene when illegal aliens in gangs have dozens of felony charges. I may be a little off point here, but when law enforcement went after organized crime, they used conspiracy charges to great effect and used the leverage of multiple felonies and massive bonds to create street level informants, why is he same thing not being done here. Yes a wholesale clearing of the streets would mean massive jail overcrowding, but it would give the police a foothold to fight back.
June 15, 2009 at 12:01 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
membermike (anonymous) says...
dear john......i wuz serious when i told U 2 STOP pimping......
June 15, 2009 at 3:01 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
lillycollette (anonymous) says...
For what it is worth ...
http://www.ice.gov/about/lesc/brochur...
Local, state and federal law enforcement officers and investigators utilize the Law Enforcement Support Center (LESC), for its wide range of information services. The LESC is administered by U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE), the largest investigative arm of the Department of Homeland Security (DHS). ICE has made information-sharing partnership with other law enforcement entities a key strategy in the agency's homeland security mission.
The LESC provides timely and accurate information to law enforcement officers on the immigration status and identity of individuals who have been arrested or are under investigation for criminal activity.
LESC technicians have ready access to a wide range of databases and intelligence sources. In addition, the LESC analyzes and disseminates information received from the public about suspicious or criminal activity.
The LESC, located in Williston, Vermont, operates 24 hours a day, 365 days a year. For information on how to access the Law Enforcement Support Center via NLETS, please direct inquiries to:
LESC Computer Services Division
188 Harvest Lane
Williston,Vermont 05495
802-872-6050 or via the NLETS Administrative Message (AM) to VTINS07S0
June 15, 2009 at 3:29 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
lillycollette (anonymous) says...
http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html...
SUPREME COURT OF THE UNITED STATES
Nos. 95-1478 and 95-1503
JAY PRINTZ, SHERIFF/CORONER, RAVALLI COUNTY, MONTANA, PETITIONER 95-1478 v. UNITED STATES RICHARD MACK, PETITIONER 95-1503
ON WRITS OF CERTIORARI TO THE UNITED STATES COURT OF APPEALS FOR THE NINTH CIRCUIT
[June 27, 1997]
Justice Scalia delivered the opinion of the Court.
[...] The petitioners here object to being pressed into federal service, and contend that congressional action compelling state officers to execute federal laws is unconstitutional. [...]
June 15, 2009 at 6:06 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
lillycollette (anonymous) says...
Jay Printz and Richard Mack won their case.
Sheriff Richard Mack looks like an interesting person to listen to. Well, far more interesting than some anound here.
June 15, 2009 at 12:36 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
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