Alcohol is part of proposal for cafes
By Schuyler Kropf
A North Charleston city councilman who supports cafe-style sidewalk dining, with alcoholic beverage service, said he has a solution that he hopes will make it acceptable to locals and drinking opponents.
The Post and Courier
City Councilman Kurt Taylor, outside Evo Pizza on Wednesday, is promoting a proposal for sidewalk dining in North Charleston, one that would include serving alcohol but only during restricted hours.
Councilman Kurt Taylor wants to allow the option for restaurants in the Olde Village business district, by Park Circle and East Montague Avenue.
Some residents have raised opposition, saying the district is too close to their churches, neighborhoods and North Charleston High School.
On Wednesday, Taylor presented a pilot proposal that would allow sidewalk dining in the area from 7 a.m. to 11 p.m., but with alcohol service only between the hours of 3 and 11 p.m. The time frame covers most dinner crowds and part of afternoon TV football game schedules, but not too late into the night.
Restrictions would occur during home football games at the high school, and during other events, such as when the area is blocked off for street events or parades.
As many as seven restaurants could take part, and there also would be insurance requirements and the need to make sure pedestrian flow isn't interrupted.
"It's not about outside bars, it's about outside dining," said Taylor, whose district includes areas around Park Circle.
The proposal, which passed a city subcommittee vote Wednesday night, is considered a pilot program to see how well outside cafe dining can work in an area known for its restaurants and neighborhood flair.
At present, sidewalk dining on city rights of way in North Charleston is not strictly prohibited under the city code, but it is not regulated either.
Previous story
Bite and a beer, maybe: N. Charleston may OK permits for outside dining, drinking, published 03/12/09
Mayor Keith Summey, who lost a sister and a brother-in-law to a drunken driver, said he was supporting the proposal, in part to help the business area grow as a family destination. He favored cafes as a means of creating an ambiance "that helps draw people to it."
Summey's family owns a restaurant in the area but may not be able to take advantage of any cafe change, he said, because of the tight geography outside the front door.
Voting against the plan was City Councilman Michael Brown, who said he didn't want to "create an ambiance" based on alcohol, and because of the proximity of the high school. The effort has several layers of city government to go through before it would be adopted.
Business groups, merchants and some neighborhood groups have backed the idea, saying a cafe offering will boost visitation.
Scott Cloud, owner of the Barbecue Joint, said he'd welcome outside dining because it would give him extra tables on the city sidewalks, including during times of good weather.
The congregation of the nearby Cooper River Baptist Church remains opposed to the alcohol sales. Coley Snowden, deacon chairman, did not attend the meeting but said members would probably attend future meetings.
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Comments
justjerry (anonymous) says...
What a great plan to allow the restaurants in Park Circle to utilize their outside space. Thanks to Kurt and the Merchants association for coming up with a compromise that does as best as possible to respect the rights of all.
July 16, 2009 at 1:41 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Halcyon (anonymous) says...
I'm a North Charleston resident (so many that will weigh in on this probably aren't) and I think outside dining (and drinking) is a great idea. The only thing I object to is the time constraints. Since when did we get the idea that drinking required a time limit? Why can't I have a beer outside of a restaurant after 11 PM? Why can't I have a beer at a bar after 2 AM? Furthermore, why can't I walk down the street and drink a beer, so long as I'm not intoxicated or a public annoyance?
In what is our fear of alcohol based?
July 16, 2009 at 2:21 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
charlestt (anonymous) says...
Halcyon you are named after a powerful drug for sleeping problems and you want to know what's wrong with alcohol? Alcohol is the most deadly drug in the country you meathead. Peoples problems stem from the fact that you will urinate, yell and generally be an idiot before you go home.
I would think that a bar should determine where and how to serve their beverages. If you don't want them to sell alcohol, just don't give them a business license. Don't let the investment be made and then start changing the rules because of some stupid mom and her kid live behind a bar. From what meals I have had up that way, they look like the nicest looking people in that whole nasty city of yours so roll out the red carpet or throw up a waffle house.
July 16, 2009 at 3:27 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Halcyon (anonymous) says...
charlestt, you're thinking of Halcion (triazolam), which has nothing to do with a halcyon, a synonym for tranquility. My city might be nasty, but at least we can pick up a dictionary.
Is alcohol any less dangerous at noon than it is at 3 AM? Please provide me with the research behind your hypothesis that alcohol does more harm depending on the time of day.
I've already eluded to the fact that I agree with laws prohibiting causing a public annoyance and being publicly drunk. Once again, my city might be nasty, but at least we can read.
July 16, 2009 at 3:37 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
SteveWynn (anonymous) says...
I agree with Halcyon. Those who are opposed to this are devoid of any common sence. What exactly do they fear is going to take place outside, that could not be done inside the restaurant? What is the magic of 3pm? Apparently, they must feel that high school students will be served alcohol on the way home from school(because we all know that those who drink outside never get carded). Or, that someone on their way to a church meeting is a no-show, because they were tempted by that devil water being served in front of EVO Pizza. It really is scary how narrow minded people are.
July 16, 2009 at 4:22 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
BuddhaDon (anonymous) says...
So, if a cop sees someone enjoying a beer with his meal outside, can he arrest the person, and throw him in jail for public intoxication?
July 16, 2009 at 5:10 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
ColdBud (anonymous) says...
Dining outside can be great, but I'm thinking North Charleston still has a ways to go in getting it's crime under control before I want to sit outside and eat there. I don't feel safe going to eat inside at North Charleston restaurants, much less sitting out in the war zone.
July 16, 2009 at 5:57 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
justjerry (anonymous) says...
buddhadon - no, that is the purpose of this regulation. Police would have the same need to arrest someone for public intoxication within the boundaries of the cafe area as they would inside the restaurant. The outside area is an extension of the area that the business is licensed to operate with a few other restrictions for outside service.
Coldbud - please feel free to stay out of North Chuck, especially the business district in Park Circle, we don't want your fear and paranoia about being in our city to ruin the good time that we have there.
July 16, 2009 at 6:38 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Halcyon (anonymous) says...
ColdBud, I eat inside (and outside) of North Charleston restaurants almost daily, and have yet to have a problem.
July 16, 2009 at 6:41 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
ColdBud (anonymous) says...
justjerry, no problem. My good times don't involve guns, crack, prostitution and illegal aliens. Business takes me through the area all of the time. Dress it up with pretty words all you want, Park Circle is still a VERY dangerous area. The only people claiming that it's not are the people that have an investment in the area. I hope you get it cleaned up, I really do. It's not there yet. Remember the article about a year ago touting the first man to buy a home in Mixon? I've driven by twice this week... I think he's still the only resident. I know that's not really Park Circle, but at the time, people were claiming that Park Circle was cleaned up and that the Mixon homes would sell easily. They've dropped the prices down to the mid 100Ks and they still aren't selling. The fact that they are ugly as hell may have something to do with that too. It doesn't matter how nice the stores and restaurants are, if they are across the street from one of the deadliest areas in town, it's still a bad area.
Archdale, off of Dorchester, is a very nice neighborhood. Ask all of the homeowners why they are selling. It's because of the close proximity of violent crime.
When I go out to eat, I go to Summerville or down to Shem Creek. Yes, crime can still happen there, and Summerville is getting worse daily, but it's still not near as bad as North Charleston or Charleston. Get the crime under control and I'll gladly support your local businesses. My safety, and the safety of my family comes first though.
July 16, 2009 at 6:54 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
jbr1039 (anonymous) says...
As someone who lives and owns a business here in Charleston, I can never get over the NIMBY attitude of this city or its seeming lethal allergy to new ideas. Sidewalk dining is a wonderful idea, and it has negative effects on no one. Sidewalk dining is a staple in every major city in the world, and many others at that, and lends a rarefied and dignified atmosphere. I am always disappointed on lovely days when there really aren't any opportunities to sit outside, read the paper, have a drink (tea or wine) and watch the fantastic people of this city walk by.
For those of you who haven't experienced life with sidewalk dining, it is in fact a wonderful community builder. I know that I have had many, many times when I have been out doing errands, and friends have waved from a sidewalk bistro, asking me to join them. It's nice. It's fun. It's harmless, and it helps build a good commercial base.
For the skeptics out there who think that this would encourage rowdy drunks to bring it out into the streets, what do we have now? In downtown at least, you have drunks thick as flies on the streets who are hopping from bar to bar or are milling on the sidewalk because that's the only place to smoke these days. If you have establishments that have seating, tables, servers and managers in these outside areas, you have a measure of control which makes the outside as well maintained as the inside.
Obviously, we are not speaking of downtown, but Olde Village, where you can smoke inside, and there is ample space on the sidewalk. Yes, there are churches and schools, but show me an outside cafe in Paris or Rome which isn't a stone's throw away from a church? As for the thought of getting mugged while you are sitting outside enjoying your dinner.. please. When you have people in controlled areas, dining on the sidewalk you decrease the chances of crime. What you have are lively, bustling streets, where people who prey on others are not likely to act.
Olde Town is growing in to a very special community in our area. One where the merchants all know one another and do what they can to help one another's businesses. Outdoor dining would be a boon to that area, and I applaud them for trying to get it done. They can show the rest of us how nice a change of pace can be. Hey, if you don't like it, keep eating in Summerville or Shem Creek. That's the beauty of a society where you have freedom of choice.
July 16, 2009 at 7:58 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
kostanza (anonymous) says...
it's a shame really that this has to be an issue. If you go to any other city in any other country in the world you will see people dining outside at cafe's enjoying a glass of wine or a beer with their lunch or dinner. I think that if the establishments maintain a level of decorum, then the customer's they atrract will likewise act accordingly; if you allow places to have 'Keg stand Thursday' and blast outside music then you'll be asking for trouble.
July 16, 2009 at 8:12 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
justjerry (anonymous) says...
Coldbud - Myopic people such as yourself should continue to go to the largely bad and/or tourist trap restaurants of Shem Creek and Summerville. There is crime in every area of Charleston, just ask the poor victim who worked at the Queen Street grocery downtown. To think that it only happens in North Charleston is just silly. Your statement that Park Circle is still a VERY dangerous area is laughable and ludicrous. Mixson is not selling for the same reason that every other new home development is not selling, the housing market is in the crapper. Fortunately for me, however, my home in PC, my wife's old home in PC and my mother in law's home in the neighborhood continue to hold and increase in value, unlike the rest of Charleston. Enjoy your chain restaurants and vinyl village I will enjoy my locally owned neighborhood restaurants owned, my friendly neighbors and now my cold beverage (which is usually not a mass produced, redneck champagne Budweiser) on the sidewalk.
July 16, 2009 at 8:13 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
justjerry (anonymous) says...
barbershop you are funny. I think that buying a house and having it increase in value by 35% in 4 years in a down housing market is a pretty good return. My wife's house has tripled in value in 10 years. I doubt seriously that either you or coldbud have had the same return, especially in the last few years, that is if either of you actually own property. I know of people who have sold their homes at discounts to get them sold in a crummy housing market, not because they did not like the Park Circle neighborhood.
Like I said, enjoy your trailers and vinyl track homes with no trees and clear cut lots out in Ladson and Goose Creek and I will stick with my beautiful old home in Park Circle where I don't have to deal with rednecks, am convenient to anything I want to do in the greater Charleston area and have great neighbors who enjoy the tremendous quality of life that has developed in the last 5 years.
Also, what was your prior screen name since you only have two posts to your credit as barbershop and claim to have in depth prior knowledge of my past postings?
July 16, 2009 at 8:48 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
ColdBud (anonymous) says...
justjerry, reread my comments. I already acknowledged that crime is everywhere. I also stated that I hope you get your out of control, violent crime problem fixed. I'm not your enemy. I am, however, honest and straight forward. Park Circle is still slap dab in the middle of one of the most violent areas in the low country. FYI, houses in my neighborhood that do end up for sell are being bought pretty quickly, and yes, with vinyl siding.
BTW.. I drink Bud Light... not Budweiser. I've had "specialty beers", wines and alcohol. Don't like any of them. Don't like the taste and, being honest and straight forward, I don't drink things I don't like just to impress others. I also don't resort to grade school degrading when my feelings or pride get hurt. It says a lot about your maturity and probably goes a long way to justify your point of view.
Enjoy your neighborhood... I enjoy mine. That's all that really matters. I'm sure we have meth labs not too far from my house. You have crack whores and thugs. We all have problems we're dealing with. Your's are just more violent and more frequent at the moment. If they get the crime under control, great. Until then, I'll stay away and drink my cold Bud Light with the cheapos and morons that I hang with :)
July 16, 2009 at 9:04 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
eyfigueroa (anonymous) says...
A church complaining about what a private business will do down the street from them?
Imagine that.
And what's so sad is that City Council may actually take into account a church's concerns regarding what consenting adults do at a restaurant.
I can certainly understand neighbors being concerned for loud noise, traffic, trash and rowdiness of intoxicated patrons. And that SHOULD be taken into account. However that is not based on religious preferences but the desires of individual homeowners.
But what's getting my goat this morning is this public pandering to religious organizations over what should be allowed in businesses, who by the way PAY for the privilege of operating via licenses & taxes.
Something churches do not.
And the excuse about a school being nearby? Simply ludicrous. It's a high school and North Charleston at that.
Next thing you'll hear is a dress code will be implemented as to not 'offend' the churchgoers and the innocent bairns who attend the nearby school. *rolls eyes*
When are you people are going to get fed up with constant social/moral tyranny of our elected officials?
July 16, 2009 at 9:09 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
eyfigueroa (anonymous) says...
Boys...
Stop the pissing contest over whose neighborhood is better.
Justjerry more than likely lives in an area of North Charleston that is an oasis in a desert.
I've gone to the Park Circle area to visit friends and patronized the shops in the Olde Village.
It is not the warzone that coldbud or others would have you believe.
However they are correct in mentioning that surrounding that area are some of the most dangerous neigborhoods in NC.
So essentially both of you are right.
If I didn't have children at home or wasn't just plain in love with Berkeley county I could honestly say that I would consider Park Circle as a place to live especially if I got one of the larger older homes for cheapies.
In any event, no need for war of words over individual neighborhoods.
There are pros and cons everywhere.
But I see Olde Village as a quaint place to have lunch or dinner and I appreciate ALL of the work the residents and the city are putting into that area.
July 16, 2009 at 9:18 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
justjerry (anonymous) says...
There is crime everywhere but to characterize Park Circle in the same light and as dangerous as areas such as Waylan or East Side or Savage Road or Boulder Bluff is just false. And with your methlabs there are definitely a few meth whores and thugs to go along with them ;) Hopefully one of these days you will develop a taste for specialty beers, they are not all the same. Man can't live on just ground beef, every so often a filet or even just a ribeye is a pleasant change.
July 16, 2009 at 9:20 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
tootiedootie (anonymous) says...
jbr1039 : I'm 100% with you. I can't wait until all of this is over and we can sit down to a nice meal and a glass of wine on the sidewalks of East Montague.
All of you who are in support of the sidewalk dining, keep a look out for the public hearing on the issue. That is when you all have the opportunity to let the city know what you think. Unfortunately, the last time we fought for this issue, we lost out because of the poor showing on our side at the public hearing. We can't let that happen again.
July 16, 2009 at 9:21 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
kostanza (anonymous) says...
eyefigueroa, you're dead on. I love going up to Madra Rua in NC for a Guiness, Home Team in WA for a bud and some BBQ, Art's in Mt.P for a locals experience. This area is wonderful, and we are all very lucky to live here, everyone needs to explore their surrounding communities to find diamonds in the perceived rough!
July 16, 2009 at 9:23 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
JAS (anonymous) says...
"... I will stick with my beautiful old home in Park Circle where I don't have to deal with rednecks, am convenient to anything I want to do in the greater Charleston area and have great neighbors who enjoy the tremendous quality of life that has developed in the last 5 years..."
------------
Well said justjerry! I owe you Coast IPA one evening out on the sidewalk.
EVO - Please bring back the house cold cured salmon appetizer. Could have been one of the best thing I've ever eaten.
July 16, 2009 at 9:32 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
nopartisan_noproblem (anonymous) says...
And roses bloom from your porcelain there too barbershop, way to side an arguement by describing (possibly fabricating, just saying) how much better you are. None of this defeats the fact that a city that you are attempting to bash should be prohibited from trying to create a stronger sense of culture and community by offering something that many larger and more prosperous cities do. Money doesn't make you better, but it can make you close-minded.
"Wealth is a state of mind, not a state of currency"
July 16, 2009 at 9:33 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
justjerry (anonymous) says...
barbershop - Glad you like it on James Island, I like to go there whenever I want to sit in traffic and watch home values decline. Hopefully you are not near Camp Road, I hear there is an occasional crime there too.
As eyefigueroa said, we in Park Circle are in an oasis and it is sad that you and others would miss out on some great experiences because of your short sightedness. North Charleston has been the economic powerhouse in the tricounty for a long time and through no fault of it's own has had to revitalize after a crippling blow when the Navy Base and Shipyard pulled out. The progress made may not seem apparent to the uninformed but it has been spectacular and continues to happen every day.
Best of luck to you, I will stay in Park Circle, you can have James Island and hopefully for your sake you have not been annexed by little joe yet.
July 16, 2009 at 9:41 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
WhatMeWorry (anonymous) says...
While I agree that alcohol abuse and dependence are significant problems, the folks enjoying a drink at a restaurant out of doors usually do not meet the criteria for either.
Perhaps out of control alcohol consumption wouldn't be as much of a problem if alcoholic beverages weren't so taboo. I grew up in a family where a glass of wine was usually consumed with dinner (which we ate together). Once in our late teens, we were included as long as we weren't driving and our homework was finished. No one got drunk. In fact, I've never seen my dad drunk.
When I went out on my own, alcohol was no big deal and getting it and drinking as much as I possibly could was not a goal of mine.
This fear of casual and social drinking leading to drunken debauchery is bunk.
July 16, 2009 at 9:45 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
High_Gravity (anonymous) says...
Barbershop- Which one of those crimes you just listed happened in Park Cricle?
July 16, 2009 at 9:46 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
nopartisan_noproblem (anonymous) says...
I was once almost a victim of a ruthless hit and run accident after I almost got hit by another players disc during a frisbee golf game and no one spoke up as to who threw it.
July 16, 2009 at 9:50 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
justjerry (anonymous) says...
Comparing the crime in the City of North Charleston to the City of James Island is apples and oranges. A more equivalent comparison would be to compare the City of Charleston crime to the City of North Charleston crime statistics. Both have large, diverse populations of varying incomes which creates crime. There are expensive areas in North Charleston with little to no crime and inexpensive areas that are riddled with it, just like Charleston.
As for the rednecks, when I first moved to Charleston the rednecks were, oddly enough, on James Island, Summerville and Mount Pleasant. They have for the most part been priced out but that is where the ignorance in this area streamed from.
Even if the knife is dull I would take it over an unloaded gun.
I will agree that you are happy with your investment, feel safe and have pride in the area you live in on James Island. I feel the same about my home in Park Circle.
July 16, 2009 at 9:54 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
UrGatorbait (anonymous) says...
Give ColdBud an MRAP and a full body armor suit, police escort...all to walk out his door to get his paper just in case somebody who passed through Park Circle might be a criminal with the evil intent of taking his pink bunny slippers and diversity bathrobe....sheesh
Maybe some of those Archdale folks are just moving? Maybe under foreclosure? Maybe Park Circle is not as bad as you think? You don't appear to travel much outside of certain areas without your armored car, body armor and an arsenal of pop guns. So I would lay more credence on the opinion and observations of somebody who lives there than someone who avoids the area. Then again I consider the source.
July 16, 2009 at 10:06 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Ayarkay (anonymous) says...
I don't understand why every time there is an article on Park Circle, there's about 5 people (usually the same ones) who chime in with the comment, OMG Park Circle dangerous you will get shot and accosted by crack whores Danger Danger. If you don't live here, and you have no interest in coming here, then why don't you just leave us alone to enjoy our nice old houses?
Yay for sidewalk dining, Montague is the perfect area for it.
July 16, 2009 at 10:08 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Edwin435 (anonymous) says...
Barbershop,
I live in the PC area and love it. I also love the restaurants and bars in Old North Charleston. I think that the idea of outside cafes is fantastic. This would provide a place when friends can meet and enjoy each other without being inside. I personally would welcome this as it provides for a more casual atmosphere. I also think that it fits the people of the area. People in PC are very friendly and outgoing. I like this neighborhood feel as it lends itself to the community feel that I experienced while traveling in the military. But your assumption that the PC area is crime ridden flea bag area is wrong; you quoted several crimes that happened in "North Charleston". Well, technically you are correct, but they were in the northern end of the City and at least 10 miles from our area. I think that anywhere that you live is just a couple of turns from a bad area...that's just a geographical fact but the assumption of crime increasing with cafe dining is a bit farfetched and alarmist. I guess we need Chicken Little out there to yell the crime is coming the crime is coming.......
July 16, 2009 at 10:27 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
singleroni (anonymous) says...
if you sit in outside and drink and get in a car can a cop arrest you for dui. since he sees you drinking?
or do nochas cop ignore it since it is the port city.
July 16, 2009 at 10:39 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
vmirat90 (anonymous) says...
I didn't realize that James Island was the new "Eden". No thanks- JI was the brunt of all of our jokes growing up, and a few gated communities do not change that perception.
Park Circle is no more dangerous than any other area- if you actually ventured there, you would know that. You are more likely to be hit in the head with a frisbee by hippies than you are to be assaulted, and we know how violent those darn hippies are.
July 16, 2009 at 10:48 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Edwin435 (anonymous) says...
LOL VMIRat.....so true so true...
July 16, 2009 at 10:50 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
vmirat90 (anonymous) says...
and Madra Rua does have all the English Premier League football (soccer for most of us yanks) matches.
I don't know too many thugs and rednecks that watch soccer.
July 16, 2009 at 11:07 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
singleroni (anonymous) says...
born and raised on Jenkins street - went to nochas high and elementary- worked at the asbestos plant for25 years.. will only go back in passing through rather fast. they still have great hamburgers at the grill across from the bank. but you have to pass through a bad circle to get there. don't feel safe there and park circle always was the upity crowd. that seems not to have changed. they can have it i prefer to ride or walk without looking over my shoulder. since the mayor does nothing about the mexicans i don't even go to the remount road area. i would go if force protection would lend me a cougar.
July 16, 2009 at 11:27 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
nopartisan_noproblem (anonymous) says...
No more posts. Yes, there is a God. Barbershop is a closet cheese eater.
July 16, 2009 at 11:28 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
vmirat90 (anonymous) says...
never said I lived in NC, barber-- way to connect dots that just aren't there. I guess that people who live in ivory towers have a bad habit of doing that. I enjoy going to PC for the bars and restaurants.
I will put my community up against yours any day of the week- crime, traffic, proximity to shopping, bars, restaurants, etc.
July 16, 2009 at 11:39 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
coahtrtaylor (anonymous) says...
coldbud: How many steps does it take to get to your ivory TOWER?
I usually agree with you, but you are way off base with this.
Many areas in North Charleston are crime ridden, but I have never seen or heard of problems in the area that the article refers, and I am a frequent visitor. I have never felt unsafe leaving any of the businesses on East Montague. Now if you venture too far down the opposite side of the circle or are crazy enough to head toward Remount Rd you may find yourself needing armor cover.
I am a customer of Bella Bella and SoCa, my husband and I love Madra Rua, EVO and just ate for the first time at The BBQ Joint. It's nice to see the area coming back.
July 16, 2009 at 11:55 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
vmirat90 (anonymous) says...
agree completely, coah.
July 16, 2009 at 11:59 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
MMitchum (anonymous) says...
Changing Times...Guys, get over it. You do not rule the world. Hey did you see in Fla. where the couple that had all the adopted children with diabilities were killed. Had money nice home and camera survelliance...didn't matter what neighborhood they were in. See happens everywhere and to every walk of life. You are no better than anyone else in this world. Where I am living now the smoking ban has caused cafe style on the streets...it's changing times guys.
July 16, 2009 at 12:27 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
wjhamilton3 (anonymous) says...
We've visited Montague Ave. several times to take in the movies at the Greater Park Circle Film Society and often to have dinner, on the sidewalk at EVO pizza across the street. The area is a bit worn and ragged here and there and I wouldn't advise wandering around it alone in the dark while drunk, but we haven't had any problems.
In ten years, this will be the hottest place for younger people to live in the area. It looks like every up and coming hip neighborhood that is just on it's way.
In a decade, when gas is seven bucks a gallon, their biggest problem is hoping their community won't be ruined by the Republicans trying to get reach on the real estate there. They'll have art Galleries, cool places to eat and all the hip, fun stuff and sidewalks full over oversexed, and attractive 20 somethings having the best years of their lives.
After that, real estate prices will go through the roof and a lot of dull, middle aged Republicans will move in, then the urban pioneers will have to find some other marginal area to move to.
Fortunately crime helps keep the cost of housing affordable and available to younger people and creative types. I'm afraid it is a necessary evil since it keeps upper class dullness away.
July 16, 2009 at 1:37 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
wjhamilton3 (anonymous) says...
1 would also point out that there are over 1800 cafes on the sidewalks of Paris serving alcohol and food. It's quite nice. Some of those areas are pretty run down, but that can be part of the charm.
My son enjoyed the fist fight between the waiter and his woman's ex boyfriend immensely. It didn't even clear out the cafe. The police showed up, French Style, which is rather cool, small cars, lots of cops, and within 10 minutes everything was back to normal, except for one less table.
The manager seemed a bit frustrated, but it was real life. Se la vie.
July 16, 2009 at 1:45 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
vmirat90 (anonymous) says...
I think you mean c'est la vie, wj! :)
Sorry...8 yrs of French, and I had to chime in.
July 16, 2009 at 2:01 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
nopartisan_noproblem (anonymous) says...
WJ, nice post but did you really have to go and make it political. You make it look like the democrats are the criminals and the republicans are the killjoys.
July 16, 2009 at 2:15 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
counterpoint (anonymous) says...
Why hasn't anyone brought Obama into this debate?
July 16, 2009 at 2:17 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
vmirat90 (anonymous) says...
give them time, counter. I am waiting for yird or ysilly to post that it is an Obama conspiracy, and that we're all going to die!
July 16, 2009 at 2:20 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
truejournalism (anonymous) says...
As a resident of North Charleston, I feel perfectly safe dining in and outside of the restaurants located on East Montague, and to think that passing this ordinance will create "an ambiance" of alcohol is just absurd! EVO Pizzeria has brought people from all over Charleston to North Charleston, and b/c of that, more people are willing to travel to our area AND spend their dollars with a locally owned establishment, something Mayor Summey has supported with his pledge to the 10% shift. Every time that I have driven by that restaurant, I see people enjoying family, friends, food and drink in a MATURE manner. There are no raging parties, as the church folk want to believe, nor have they served to high school or underaged students. More students will skip school at North Charleston High to loiter in the streets and attempt to buy beer/cigarettes in local convenience stores that even attempt to have a pint of beer or glass of wine during school hours!
EVO Pizzeria is not a late night spot either, nor does it seem to encourage heavy drinking typical to bars. People go there b/c they like the food, the prices and the service. If a business is in compliance with the city and takes into consideration its neighbors, then why should it be barred from conducting normal business? What's the point in even having those gorgeous sidewalks if people and businesses cannot use them to enhance a neighborhood?
Bottom line--outdoor dining generates revenue for businesses and in turn, revenue for the City, which can aid in more police protection and crime reduction, but I don't rely only on the City alone to protect me; I take the initiative myself by participating in crime watch walks and communicating with my neighbors and law enforcement about suspicious activity. And in doing all this, I've seen the Park Circle community grow and improve.
July 16, 2009 at 2:31 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mrjm (anonymous) says...
Does anyone really believe that Summey is not behind this? That weak comment "I don't think we will be able to benefit from this...." is a lot of hooey. There isn't one thing proposed by NC Gov't that doesn't benefit Summey directly, believe me.
I'm all for outside dining, but when are you knuckleheads in NC going to wake up and see how Summey and his family are prospering by all the directions they are leading NC in : his wife (formerly a school teacher) is now a judge, his son is a County Councilman, his investment in MIXON and NOISETTE, the "beautification" of old towne NC where his family restaurant is....? WAKE UP.
July 16, 2009 at 2:31 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
guidedbystewart (anonymous) says...
Barbershop,
Your comment reeks of arrogance. Some people have different values as to where they choose to live. Some people want good schools and then some one to be close to the nightlife, restaurants, etc. Some people some there slab houses, being close to Wally World and Mickey Dee's and then others like to be within walking distance to their favorite pub. You know how the old saying goes, whatever floats your boat! Personally I feel that Park Circle has tons of more character than either Mt Plastic or James Island combined. Whether or not it is safe, all I can say is I have never felt threatened. Yes, the area around PC is scary, yet if you feel that the businesses around the Ole Village are unsafe either you are paranoid or you have not visited the area in a while. Personally, I like a place with a little edge; it keeps the uppity arrogant snobs such as yourself away and keeps the prices at bay.
July 16, 2009 at 2:33 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
stretsweeper (anonymous) says...
NC, THE SMELLY ARMPIT OF CHARLESTON COUNTY. KEEP WHAT YOU GOT, NOBODY WANTS IT. UP AND COMING, WHAT A JOKE. WHERE DO ALL YOU FINE CITIZENS OF NC SEND YOUR KIDS TO SCHOOL? PRIVATE SCHOOL I MEAN! SOME OF THE POSTS DEFENDING NC IS CRAZY. OBVIOUSLY PEOPLE WANTING TO LIVE A CHAMPAIGNE LIFESTYLE ON A BEER BUDGET. CALL PC WHAT YOU WANT, I CALL IT A WANT A BE BUT CAN'T AFFORD IT NEIGHBORHOOD COMPROMISE.
July 16, 2009 at 3:06 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
JAS (anonymous) says...
mrjm - Elliott got elected by the community. He was not appointed by his father.
His wife's resteraunt? Seriously, I've lived in Park Circle for about a year and a half. I walk to East Montague almost everyday with my dogs and frequent the Pub and EVO multiple times a week. I have NEVER even seen Aunt Bea's open. I think it's open like 2 days a week for 6 dollar lunches. Hardly a cash cow for the Summey family.
Besides, I'm glad my mayor has property and business interests in my community. That means he's going to do what's best for us because it will directly affect him.
July 16, 2009 at 3:10 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
bigdrewsmoove (anonymous) says...
Somebody help me out. I've dined and drank beer in front of EVO in the past year. Did they recently outlaw this, or am I missing something?
July 16, 2009 at 3:23 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
vmirat90 (anonymous) says...
somebody needs to learn to type with their caps lock OFF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
July 16, 2009 at 3:25 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
vmirat90 (anonymous) says...
somebody needs to learn to type with their caps lock OFF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
July 16, 2009 at 3:25 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
vmirat90 (anonymous) says...
and I apparently need how to learn not to post twice...
July 16, 2009 at 3:46 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
JAS (anonymous) says...
The ordinance has to do with Alcohol. I think it's one of those things like jaywalking. I don't think it's necessarily legal right now but it's not enforced. EVO, to my understanding has never had any issues with people being loud or disorderly. They usually have the place closed up by 11. The police know that that pantrons coming to EVO to dine on the sidewalk is good for the community.
July 16, 2009 at 4:07 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
smp (anonymous) says...
I love the idea of outdoor cafes...and of course if the restaraunts serve alcohol inside, then they should serve outside.
A separate issue is whether or not people will drink responsibly. But if they won't , It won't be because they sat at a table outside as opposed to inside.
I like that N charleston is always working on improving. Yeah we have a loooooong way to go, but we have leaders who continue to work on it.
July 16, 2009 at 4:12 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
vmirat90 (anonymous) says...
you can never legislate morality, although the right wing Bob Jones types would love to be able to. Just enforce the laws that are on the books. If people want to get drunk and make complete arses of themselves, they are going to do it inside or outside regardless.
July 16, 2009 at 4:33 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
JohnS (anonymous) says...
Not safe area at night. Look at the stats from the City. I would not want to eat on that sidewalk. It's right next door to the grocery store who's owner was shot. There is a bad ghetto development right beyond the football field.
July 16, 2009 at 4:42 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
justjerry (anonymous) says...
JAS - I am off all weekend and I LOVE Coast of any flavor!
vmirat - Hippies scare me too. But, I was terrified of clowns as a child...
mrjm - I am glad that the mayor will benefit from changes to the neighborhood that I live in. I am glad that ANYONE will benefit. The Mayor and his family have lived in Park Circle through a lot of good and bad and should have the same right to enjoy the fruits of any progress that happens as anyone else. The decisions of the Mayor would have little to no effect on property values if other people were not attracted to the character, vibrance and charm of the Park Circle neighborhood. As for the benefit that this ordinance will have for their restaurant, it will be little to none. They are open for lunch 5 days a week, don't sell alcohol and based on the ordinance would not have enough room in front of their property to have any outdoor dining.
July 16, 2009 at 4:47 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
vmirat90 (anonymous) says...
justjerry, about the only thing that hippies are going to attack is a big bag of doritos.
July 16, 2009 at 4:49 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
kostanza (anonymous) says...
okay, that's it! I've had enough of the childish BS, and to show just how tired I am I'm taking my bottle of red wine, plastic deck chairs, candle that has the faux look of long use, easy listening low volume piped in elevator music, and I'm going home GOODNGHT!
July 16, 2009 at 7:59 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
eyfigueroa (anonymous) says...
lol @ kostanza
July 17, 2009 at 2:53 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
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