Battle for Boeing stirs up virtual attacks on S.C.
By Robert Behre
File/AP
Crowds were excited two years ago when the first production model of the Boeing 787 Dreamliner was shown in Everett, Wash.
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A conservative, anti-union bastion whose people don't have much education. A magnet for destructive hurricanes. A region whose unskilled workers are incapable of building an airplane that can fly.
Does that sound like Charleston?
Now that the Lowcountry has emerged as a top competitor for a second production line of Boeing's new 787 jetliner, the area is getting increased attention from people living in Seattle and particularly in Everett, Wash., where Boeing builds its jets.
While the above views on Charleston are by no means the official position among Washington state political and business leaders, some folks from the Northwest are painting a less-than-flattering view of the Holy City. Their comments have dribbled out in online comments as Seattle newspapers track the story.
One poster from Bellevue, Wash., summarized the Palmetto State this way: "S.C. has an obscene tax base based on liquor, cigarettes, sales, and income. ... If you wonder how they get away with it, just move there and talk to the people. Not very educated, hate change, think liberals are evil, and don't mind working a production line for minimum wage (except when they are competing with the illegals, then they mind), and think educated people are snobs."
The battle for Boeing pits Northwest vs. Southeast, a blue state vs. a red one, a land of rain against the Sun Belt.
Another Washington poster said Boeing planes built in the South would fall from the sky, adding, "I can tell you I won't be flying Boeing planes that are built in the south. RIP Boeing."
Yet another person from West Seattle said Charleston would be destroyed by a Class 5 hurricane, adding, "I don't want to see anyone hit by something like this, but if I were Boeing I would consider how this occurring could potentially cripple production for years."
And this comment posted on postandcourier.com: "Should I fly in something built by some fellow wearing a cami cap with a fish hook in the bill? Perhaps not."
Jon Talton, an economics columnist with The Seattle Times, said he's familiar with the Carolinas — his wife is a South Carolina native, and he worked in Charlotte for several years — but he's the exception.
"I don't know that Northwesterners know the Southeast that well," he said Friday. "There's not that much flow back and forth between the regions for people to really understand."
Talton said he doesn't sense much dislike of the South and that any caustic comments "are coming from a very self-selecting group, many of whom are just nuts."
Talton said he doesn't underestimate South Carolina's potential to land the plant, though its advantages — cheaper land, lower business taxes and a focused economic development strategy — are different from Seattle's, which include a highly educated and talented workforce and no income tax.
"In the end, we're almost playing in two different leagues," he said. "I'm not saying one is better and one is worse. They're just so different, it's hard to compare the two."
To be fair, much of the Northwest online debate has focused on whether the aerospace unions are driving Boeing out of town. And the South has had its defenders, including one who took exception to the prediction that Southern-built planes won't fly: "That's the most arrogant comment I've heard all day. I'm sure such things were said in Detroit decades ago."
"The South has many, many aerospace repair and overhaul facilities," another wrote. "They have the talent and they will help Boeing invest in new plants."
Some posters also noted that housing here costs less than in Seattle: "You can buy a very nice house in the Southeast for $200K — the same $200K a builder throws away to the Seattle/King/WA governments just to get to build," one wrote.
Another noted that in 1990, environmentalists forced Boeing to spend $1 million to move a frog pond that was going to be in the shadow of an expanded 777 plant. "The difference? In South Carolina, they call that pond, 'Fishin bait.' he wrote. "Them there's all ya need to know."
There was even a defense of the hurricane threat by someone who noted that the Washington area is subject to catastrophic earthquakes.
"Hurricanes are 'forecastable,' " she wrote. "Having gone through more than one of each, give me a hurricane every time."
And she was polite enough not to mention that the Lowcountry is subject to catastrophic earthquakes too.
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mkcj (anonymous) says...
"The battle for Boeing pits Northwest vs. Southeast, a blue state vs. a red one, a land of rain against the Sun Belt." Seattle's Avg. rainfall 37.1 inches a year. Charleston 51.5 inches a year so right from the start you know the person writing this story knows nothing. Second Boeing had no choice but to buy this company well both! The parts coming from there are the biggest problem in the supply chain! ZA001 was delivered to Boeing 17% complete. Vought would have gone bankrupt had Boeing not stepped in then what you build 40% of the fuselage but for them to admit this would be to admit that outsourcing was wrong. They had to outsource right? so they could sell more airplanes! How many planes are being bought by S.C. And now they own the outsourced company. I have already told my son who works on the 787 to get ready it won't be long before he goes back to try and get this failed company back on track. If Boeing does not see it's failures your right it will go the way of detroit Boeing use to make $ now with this business plan all there doing is bleeding green a BILLION at a time plus penalties.
July 11, 2009 at 3:33 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
postman01 (anonymous) says...
Our best ally? The stereotyping of condescending and ignorant LEFT WINGERS who, as usual, do not know what they are talking about.
There's a reason why Boeing is ditching Washington state for another place. The temporary dominance there of grossly confused left wingers.
This is part of the suicidal aspect of the relatively primitive left wing mindset, which is clearly incapable of prioritizing correctly. We are seeing this deficiency in California, in the newspaper industry, and elsewhere. It is the suiciidal behavior of the LEFT WING RELIGION adherents who are quite willing to commit a form of suicide (in this case financial suicide) because their totem pole political religion is more important to them than survival!!! This indicates a mental problem, of course.
July 11, 2009 at 4:11 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
cocksure (anonymous) says...
Seattle sure can't throw rocks about the hurricane dangers of Charleston...how about the volcano dangers in Seattle and Washington state? Not only does Seattle have to worry about the initial blast of a volcanic eruption, but also the ensuing flows of water, mud and lava mix (called lahars) so serious that school children are drilled on "run for the hills" when one cuts loose. Like our hurricane evacuation route signs, Seattle has lahar evacuation signs everywhere, a clear admission that lahars are a real threat Seattle lives with every day.
And...don't try to compare the rainfall amounts of Charleston and Seattle...while the amounts may be similar, ours comes intermittently throughout the year while Seattle can go months at the time without any sun...yukkkk!
July 11, 2009 at 4:39 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
DougHuffman (anonymous) says...
Well, let's compare; what fraction of Chucktonians are employed in technical production, heck, even production?
There is a reason. Chuckton services tourism, including retiree-tourists that stay until they expire, services tourism on its knees.
Bubba and Pancho compete for the same squeegie-man jobs.
July 11, 2009 at 4:53 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
DougHuffman (anonymous) says...
Re risks of volcanoes versus hurricane risks; what a pathetic ignorance of statistics and of reasoning even.
What was the last time Seattle suffered from a volcanic eruption? And the last time Chuckton suffered a hurricane? Zero volcanic eruptions of note historically compared to tens of notable hurricanes.
Just what does the sure cock think 'risk' and 'danger' mean?
Read Charlotte Thomson Iserbyt's 'The Deliberate Dumbing Down of America' to learn of Chuckton's basest failing.
July 11, 2009 at 5:03 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Neponset (anonymous) says...
Doug
1980 - St Helens - fortunately the high level winds pushed most of the ash NE - bet it was kind of dusty around Seattle. Charleston has somehow managed to support a large shipyard and other manufacturing plants. I doubt that they will assemble here, but if they do, they would being in critical skills folks and train the locals for the rest of the jobs, just as I suspect they did in Everett.
July 11, 2009 at 7:13 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Moontree (anonymous) says...
SC uneducated? Please ask BMW about our education and technical abilities. I received all of my elementary, middle school, high school and college education (all public schools) in SC. I also earned a Masters degree in "ignorant" Charleston and then went to a top 25 law school in NC where I graduated in the top 20% of my class. I then went to work for the oldest Wall Street law firm (Cadwalader, Wickersham & Taft) working on complex international financial transactions. What Doug and others fail to realize is that educational averages of states are just that - averages. There are more than sufficient individuals in SC to perform the work for Boeing.
The posters from Seattle do not strike me as intellectuals - one cliams they will not fly on Boeing planes made in SC. How are they going to know where the Boeing was manufactured? It is not going to be painted in big letters down the body of the plan.
The hurricanes are a non-issue - the Boeing facility will be strong enough to withstand one. Please note all of the houses that still stand today in Charleston from the 1700 and 1800s that did not even have the structural and material advantages of today's building and design advances.
July 11, 2009 at 7:16 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
scottmcx (anonymous) says...
The only Race of people that it is politically correct to abuse is "Southerners". If the Yankee/Liberal Industrialists and Labor Unions are so smart how come the Chinese are kicking their butts? Why are auto plants and other manufacturing jobs moving to the South? Could it be "work ethic"?
If you're a true Southerner, you know, that the primary reason the "War" was fought was the Yankee Industrialist wanted to force the South to buy their overpriced, low quality manufactured goods through HIGHER import taxes.
The same struggle continues today.
July 11, 2009 at 7:18 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
charlestonian (anonymous) says...
@DougHuffman: "What was the last time Seattle suffered from a volcanic eruption? And the last time Chuckton suffered a hurricane? Zero volcanic eruptions of note historically compared to tens of notable hurricanes."
Have you ever heard of a little mountain called Mount St. Helens? I think they had a little blow there a while back.
Have you seen any of the news in the past couple months about Mount Redoubt in Alsaska that was causing tremors all the way down in Seattle?
The "Ring of Fire" that edges the pacific is highly active.
When those ash plumes hit the air, it knocks out Jet engines, not exactly the best to have Boeing jets falling out of the sky.
July 11, 2009 at 7:20 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
High_Gravity (anonymous) says...
Am I reading this correctly? Did the P&C just write an article about the comment section from another article? Really?
July 11, 2009 at 7:21 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Moontree (anonymous) says...
Speaking of not flying on Boeings made in SC, a Boeing 747 preparing to take off in London yesterday had to be evacuated after smoke filled the cabin from an apparent electrical malfunction. Sounds like Seattle is not raising the bar too high for dumb little SC workers.
July 11, 2009 at 7:51 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
katrenavantassle (anonymous) says...
Ignorant people come from everywhere and some of these above post prove it.
You cannot take an average of intelligence and simply state that ALL OF SC PEOPLE ARE IGNORANT.
Boeing is simply doing what makes the most financial sense at this time.
We have Bosch Manufacturing here, and they make fuel injectors for automobiles. I don't see any difference in making those types of items that making parts for airplanes. All Technical. And the Boeing company does have schools just like most technical company's do to train their employees.
I myself have lived in SC for 20 years and in Texas for 15 years. I prefer SC due to the fact that I love the ocean.
I also have been in two major category 5 hurricanes, Hugo and Camille. Both of them had their losses but I am sure that Boeing has thought of that possibility and will be prepared.
We are also in a earthquake zone, and are overdue for a big one.
You can't live life worrying about Mother Nature and her future plans. You just have to have faith in GOD.(Yes I am a Christian Woman who believes in GOD.)
Sounds to me like a "few" Yankee's are just p.off that Boeing didn't want to be in their town.
Face it, that is why so many of "them" are moving to Charleston these days.
Just like us, they don't like living somewhere it rains all the time and is so cold that your freezing your butts off 3/4 of the year!!!
Get over it Yankee's...
The South Wins!!!
July 11, 2009 at 7:51 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
maeko (anonymous) says...
@ High Gravity....lol, i thought that too. hey, i guess my back would get raised too, if i stumbled across that kinda talk. P&C must think that some of the posters will have some good arrows to sling. course they'll get some real duds as well.
i can't comment on the airline industry or the weather, but i know bigotry and provacation when i see it. in a state where civil liberties are of nonconsquence, what else do you expect their people to do? they certainly can't waste time on their own issues. it's much more important to perpetuate ill-conceived notions about places they have never been!
July 11, 2009 at 8:06 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
High_Gravity (anonymous) says...
The ONLY reason that the P&C wrote this story is to rabble rouse and create internet traffic. That's it. Effing pathetic.
July 11, 2009 at 8:14 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
cocksure (anonymous) says...
The U.S. Geological Survey considers the volcanic threats to civil and military aviation,
life, and property posed by Mount St. Helens, Mount Rainier, Mount Baker and Glacier
Peak to be very high, the highest classification in an assessment the survey published
in April 2005. The same report considers the threat posed by Mount Adams to be high.
Additionally, Oregon's Mount Hood, about 50 miles southeast of Portland, poses some
threat to areas of Southwest Washington along the Columbia River. Mount Hood has
erupted repeatedly for thousands of years, most recently during two episodes in the
past 1,500 years; the last eruption ended shortly before the arrival of Lewis and Clark in
1805. Mount Hood, and other volcanoes in British Columbia, Oregon, and California,
can produce tephra which would fall on and affect Washington. The April 2005 USGS
assessment states the threat posed by Mount Hood also is very high.
July 11, 2009 at 8:15 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
maeko (anonymous) says...
being underestimated is always a strong position. let them think what they will. perhaps, we should encourage the stereotypes to keep them away.
by the way, they were kind enough to let Ms. Goodloe-Johnson work for their fair state. she is sorely missed and we are humbled by their graciousness. SC just couldn't support such talent.
July 11, 2009 at 8:29 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
BlackReign (anonymous) says...
"A conservative, anti-union bastion whose people don't have much education. A magnet for destructive hurricanes. A region whose unskilled workers are incapable of building an airplane that can fly.
Does that sound like Charleston?"
Nope, its sound like that hate monger realunamerican.
I hate to break it to the morons saying those things, but those big grey C17s that fly in and out of here, are maintained by Boeing and AF active duty/reservists and civilians from right here in good all Charlie town.
July 11, 2009 at 8:43 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
badplf (anonymous) says...
a back-asswards state obsessed with the confederate battle flag. a psuedo-conservative state that gives lip-service to freedom and liberty but whose christian bible thumpers use the police power of government to impose their morality on everybody else.
a state stimied by such inbreeding and ignorance that it repeatedly elects such idiots as ravenel, ford, altman, riley, mcconnell, harrell, thurmond, and all the rest for life.
sc - you deserve what you get.
July 11, 2009 at 8:54 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
HighDef (anonymous) says...
So this is all about bloggers negative comments about the south and Charleston. The trash talk between Boeing and Mobile, Alabama's Northrup Grumman is better than this . The French have the redneck's b/c of the Alabama connection, Boeing is the big USA brand with the elite liberal workforce out of the northwest(yankee-land). ! More Sarah Palin and Mark Sanford gossip please... Great News P&C !
July 11, 2009 at 8:55 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
eatmorecollards (anonymous) says...
To say that the Charleston work force has no experience in the aerospace industry is slightly misinformed. Does anyone remember when Avco Lycoming was here?
If Boeing comes to Charleston they may have a pleasant surprise awaiting.
July 11, 2009 at 9:01 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
HighDef (anonymous) says...
Unaware of what year it was, Joe wandered the streets desperate for help. But the English language had deteriorated into a hybrid of hillbilly, valleygirl, inner-city slang and various grunts. Joe was able to understand them, but when he spoke in an ordinary voice he sounded pompous to them.
July 11, 2009 at 9:03 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
CWL922 (anonymous) says...
Don't get me wrong, I want to have Boeing here. The problem is going to be when Boeing wants to put a rail line in to support the plant. Look at the last incident when a company wanted to put a rail line in which would have created more jobs.
July 11, 2009 at 9:05 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
BlackReign (anonymous) says...
badplf - thank you for proving how much of an ignorant clown you are. I hope you feel like the big, bad arse you try to pretend you are from behind your keyboard.
The left coast have so restricted the manufacture of aircraft, with over regulation under the guise of enviromental laws, over taxation, & spoiled union members that think they are God's gift to humanity.
Unions are nothing more then self-destructing children demanding more and more for less and less of a good product.
July 11, 2009 at 9:06 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
bilge (anonymous) says...
From North Carolina I feel compelled to comment. The Unions in the NW have done for aerospace what the Unions did for Detroit and the auto industry. We know how well that worked. The South has the skill base to build airplanes (and maintain them) but more importantly it has people who want to work for fair wages. We also understand that the top of the food chain stops with us; people and their long term well being are far more important than presrving a three toed amphibian or something equally silly. Boeing, commit to the plant and the people of the South will commit to staffing it.
July 11, 2009 at 9:09 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
tc1 (anonymous) says...
"Yet another person from West Seattle said Charleston would be destroyed by a Class 5 hurricane, adding, "I don't want to see anyone hit by something like this, but if I were Boeing I would consider how this occurring could potentially cripple production for years.""
They probably did and decided a class 5 union strike would "cripple production for years." also. So hurricanes don't matter for this decision. :)
July 11, 2009 at 9:11 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
BlackReign (anonymous) says...
eatmorecollards - also Allied Signal Aerospace in Greer, I think they merged with Honeywell in 99.
This article just gives all the self absorbed, pseudo intellectual elitists a place to bash Southerners. These SC bashers are really nothing but loser cowards and self-loathing bullies.
In a word - Pinheads.
July 11, 2009 at 9:13 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
BlackReign (anonymous) says...
As for the hurricanes arguement, I was stationed at CAFB during Hugo, the base was hit hard, but we were getting relief supplies within 12 hours flown in after we cleaned up the runway and ramp.
I guess the C17 plant sitting off of Cherry blvd in Long Beach CA, is just fine, no worries about a major earthquake.
Hurricane = red herring.
July 11, 2009 at 9:16 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
BlackReign (anonymous) says...
Posted by bilge "From North Carolina I feel compelled to comment. The Unions in the NW have done for aerospace what the Unions did for Detroit and the auto industry. We know how well that worked."
Exactly - enough said!
July 11, 2009 at 9:17 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
zekemire (anonymous) says...
The fact that SC is conservative and anti union should make Boeing's decision as easy as eating a Krispy Kreme!
July 11, 2009 at 9:27 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
CNSYD (anonymous) says...
For decades the "poor dumb unskilled workers" at the Charleston Naval Shipyard refueled nuclear reactors on board nuclear submarines and renewed the hulls to survive dives to great depths. The only reason they still don't today is that they were too successful. They helped the US win the Cold War and the Soviet Union died. So how was that for the ability of SC workers?
July 11, 2009 at 9:54 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
LutherVanderhorst (anonymous) says...
If we are fortunate enough to get Boeing, let's make it a goal to make up for the two year delay the apathetic workers in Everett and Seattle are responsible for.
July 11, 2009 at 9:57 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
charlestonnative1963 (anonymous) says...
Ha,,,you guys think they just think that about us in the west. I just spent two weeks in kentucky at a bus. meeting where I was told that SC government leaders could not could be trusted and the average educational level was 8th grade, KENTUCKY
July 11, 2009 at 10:18 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
CNSYD (anonymous) says...
badplf, I hate to see you in such distress! Relieve your pain and take I 95 and don't come back.
July 11, 2009 at 10:21 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
BlackReign (anonymous) says...
CNSYD great post at 9:54 a.m
July 11, 2009 at 10:50 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mkris (anonymous) says...
I've advised clients seeking to move facilities and/or create subsidiaries in the US.
I like SC and have advised copanies to move here: great climate, relatively inexpensive housing, low taxes and great business relocation incentives.
There are simple reasonsn most companies haven't moved to SC. They are 1) key employees with families will NOT move to SC because of poor schools and poor opportunities for thier families; 2) a poorly educated and/or skilld workforce and 3) a widespread hostility towards displays of intellegence and cultural sensitively.
Union/ right to work play very little into the decision. Most large business have experience dealing with unionized workers and are capable of dealing with them.
July 11, 2009 at 10:55 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
CNSYD (anonymous) says...
mkris, so where did you recommend they move to negate the 3 objections?
July 11, 2009 at 11:06 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
IHeartDorchester (anonymous) says...
Correct me if I am misinformed, but isn't North Carolina the birthplace of aviation, A SOUTHERN STATE! It's only right that Boeing comes down south!
July 11, 2009 at 11:25 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
eatmorecollards (anonymous) says...
I'll bet ya some of the aerospace workers of Lockheed, who had the expertise to put the Polaris Missile together are still around also.
The Polaris Missile Base closed around 95 I think.
July 11, 2009 at 11:58 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
eatmorecollards (anonymous) says...
I'm just sitting here wondering. As dumb and poorly educated as we are, why have we not blown ourselves up, or glow in the dark?
July 11, 2009 at 12:32 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Moontree (anonymous) says...
Yeah GM has done a great job of dealing with unions - using taxpayer $. As for unskilled wokers - we have a BMW plant, had a nuclear sub station and Clemson has the ICAR program. Finally the "poor" SC public educational system landed me in a Wall Street law firm along side people who attended Ivy League schools. As long as fools focus on average educational results they will be misled. Boeing is not going to insist on only hiring South Carolinians who made the median grades; they are free to hire those in the top of their class.
July 11, 2009 at 12:53 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Neponset (anonymous) says...
I am not even from here, but it always p*sses me off when folks try to run down our Low Country.
July 11, 2009 at 12:58 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
BlackReign (anonymous) says...
IHeartDorchester "Correct me if I am misinformed, but isn't North Carolina the birthplace of aviation..."
Actually, the Wright Brothers were from Ohio, but made their first successful flight at Kitty Hawk,NC.
July 11, 2009 at 1:05 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
sunnymead (anonymous) says...
I lived in Seattle when my father was working on a PhD in mycology. While there are many good things about Seattle I live in Charleston because I want to. I can do the business I do anywhere in the country. Do not forget that the people in San Francisco said the same things about Charlotte when Bank of America was bought out by Nations Bank and the corporate headquarters moved. They are just scared.
July 11, 2009 at 1:11 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Rocks66 (anonymous) says...
Typical ignorance from those routinely denigrating anything "Southern."
To be fair, however, much speculation suggested that the reason Boeing bought Vought was that the build-quality of the work being done here was substandard and was indeed a factor in the critical production delays that Boeing now faces. As I said in a previous post, installing a crankshaft in a vehicle that carries five people is hardly comparable to building a fuselage sub-assembly that will ultimately transport hundreds of thousands of people at 35,000 feet. As to the reference to the nuclear substation, that labor capability no longer exists here.
The presence of a Boeing plant here would obviously be welcomed, but I believe it is unrealistic to expect it will happen. The amateurish marketing efforts to promote the area, will, as with attempts to land major film production contracts here, be another waste of money. It's about time Charleston and N.Charleston hire some real pros to get the message out, instead of the locally-created 1970's-style advertising and marketing efforts they currently employ.
July 11, 2009 at 1:15 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
jammer (anonymous) says...
as much as we hate to admit this state is at the bottom of the list in the nation for education... that's just coming home to roost in these articles
we have some ridiculously high percentage of high school kids that can't read above a 4th grade level and we get pissed that someone calls us on it??
obviously we have a fair share of intelligent people too, but we have wayyyy too many uneducated people that will never catch up to the ranks of the high education in Seattle... the desire nor the opportunity is here to reach that
not that it can't be, but it isn't...
they come here to save money, bottom dollar... same reason many corps go to mexico or china, it's cheaper
it's always about money, especially in a recession
July 11, 2009 at 1:21 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
CNSYD (anonymous) says...
jammer, how much better are they educated in Detroit, the South Bronx, East St. Louis, etc.?
July 11, 2009 at 2:04 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
lowcountrydawg (anonymous) says...
"A conservative, anti-union bastion whose people don't have much education. A magnet for destructive hurricanes. A region whose unskilled workers are incapable of building an airplane that can fly."
They forgot a couple...
"Our girls are prettier...have you ever heard of a song called "Washington Girls...Best in the World!"
...and the SEC runs circles around the PAC-10..
Why don't they just say something bad about our Mamas?
July 11, 2009 at 2:11 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Neponset (anonymous) says...
I am sure that Boeing is checking us out as we speak to see if we have enough "trainable" locals to fill out the work force after they bring in their highly skilled core folks to make it work. Don't forget that aero space workers are highly mobile and we will get some them as well. My guess is that we could provide the necessary work force, in spite of the above negativity.
July 11, 2009 at 2:14 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
TheSheikh (anonymous) says...
I am ready to bring fight.. with biggest guns and old knife still having stains from past bloodbattles. From deep in belly comes battlecry and war paint will soon be in short supply!
July 11, 2009 at 2:30 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
jammer (anonymous) says...
CNSYD we aren't talking about those other places, and we know they aren't that intelligent... look at who lives there these days, they had a special on TV not too long ago about that
Seattle has always had some of the brightest minds in the nation, hence why much of silicone valley has always been near there among other things
"assembly line" work for cars doesn't take a lot of intelligence, you can teach a monkey how to do a lot of that... or computerize more of it and get rid of the people
air planes need a lot more personal attention to detail or there would be serious consequences in short order IMHO
I'm from here and I'm telling you much of our work force is stupid... I've seen it up close and personal for many years
our best tech college started jumping the shark years back to try and switch to white collar curriculum which put a giant dampener on our technical abilities or opportunities to learn in this area... they marketed nursing and computer programs and all but quit marketing the industrial trades
we can catch up but it's going to take quite a lot from several factions of our area
I'm not saying we can't take this on but I am saying you better weed the people out to achieve the skill you're looking for, regardless of the racial or otherwise outcome of your force... don't try to get equal amounts of diversity, get equal amount of skill or you'll just end up dummied down like our schools
July 11, 2009 at 4:12 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mahoney (anonymous) says...
Lockheed helped build the 50 C5-B planes at the Charleston plant on Pace Street back in the '80's, of which ALL are still flying, I believe. I worked on these planes and know there are many very knowledgeable people in the area capable of this type work. SC gives a lot of free training for workers and companies use it to their advantage as they should. The Lockheed building still remains, and would be a great place for Boeing to build these planes. I think Washington is scared, very scared of Charleston.
July 11, 2009 at 4:46 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Neponset (anonymous) says...
Jam
I agree, we have more then our share of dumb/stupid folks and of course they would not find much to do at a Boeing plant other than custodial and grounds work, but I think we have folks that can put the parts of these planes together. Not every "machinist" in an air craft plant is highly skilled (ie tool/die/jig maker), some take part "A" and attach to part "B" with bolt/nut assembly "C" and torque nut to X inch lbs. Our tech schools would respond to the need and they are pretty good at it. At the moment there is not a lot of demand for industrial arts. I suspect that Boeing would bring in the highly skilled folk and use the locals for less critical work. Wish we had an aerospace machinist, without an agenda, on board.
July 11, 2009 at 4:59 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
gngolfing (anonymous) says...
Dem fightin words.
July 11, 2009 at 5:03 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
CNSYD (anonymous) says...
jammer, no clue where you work or have worked but the nuclear submarine work that used to be performed at Charleston Naval Shipyard by LOCAL labor was anything but "assembly line". You want to tout airplane work but how about systems for navigation while submerged? Ever seen welders who could weld joint they had to view in a mirror? Local Charleston workers did it for years. BTW stroll down to Alaskan Way in Seattle and check out all the "bright minds" passing around wine bottles. IRT workers at places like Microsoft, yes they are smart but to do aircraft work you need workers who can walk and chew gum at the same time.
July 11, 2009 at 5:05 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
omarro1974 (anonymous) says...
"I'm not saying we can't take this on but I am saying you better weed the people out to achieve the skill you're looking for, regardless of the racial or otherwise outcome of your force... don't try to get equal amounts of diversity, get equal amount of skill or you'll just end up dummied down like our schools"
"Dummied" isn't a word. I'm glad you aren't in school, so we don't have to water down the curriculum. I'm glad they weeded you out.
The hypocrisy of stupidity....I love it.
July 11, 2009 at 5:09 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
dralexan7431 (anonymous) says...
I guess when the P&C has no real news to report, they rely on "virtual" news.
...Maybe tomorrow, they will report what was discussed in these comments.
July 11, 2009 at 5:35 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Neponset (anonymous) says...
CNSYD
I like your user name and remember the welders that did mirror welding, not mention welding thick hull plating with 30-50 passes and having to meet zero defects/inclusions for the job. We were one of the best on the east coast.
July 11, 2009 at 5:45 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
WSM (anonymous) says...
Is this suprising?
They are responsible for thier own undoing. Screw 'em. Unions have killed the goose that laid the golden egg. That is what happens with a Socialist (read "Fascist") economy.
So...just pedal on over to Starbucks, get a latte', and complain that Bush made this mess so bad that Obama couldn't fix it fast enough.
Then again, if it is so much better there, why do they all move here? Can't compete and have to drop their standards, or are they too proud to admit they've been wrong all along?
July 11, 2009 at 5:49 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
jammer (anonymous) says...
I've done some of that welding by mirror yrs ago, and yes I know we had a very skilled work force here 20 yrs ago... but that was 20 yrs ago
unless you're going to pull all those people out of retirement where are you going to find the skill needed for this? they'll probably do as you've said, teach the people here once they get here as vought has tried to do through TTC
but exactly how well has that turned out? they have many of the throw aways in there from Amercian LaFrance and the likes and are now selling out...
and omarro you keep showing your ignorance like a beacon... lol ... look up dummied dummy, next to it will see things like dulled etc etc... you must have been one of those they "pushed along"
July 11, 2009 at 6:04 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
chasnative54 (anonymous) says...
For anyone who is not aware, GA (Global Aeronautica) has been the "Buffer" to Everett for the entire existance of the program. GA started with a limited scope of approx 700 jobs on the aircraft, but due to Everett and the partners needing the assistance, GA grew to approx 2200 jobs on the aircraft. Thats 3 times our original statement of work, plus we kept going while the strike was on, continuing to support the program. And now we accept all work that has been put to us, regardless of how difficult the changes may be. The men and women of that plant have done everything asked of them, no matter what thier job was or what amount of hours they were asked to work. They HAVE done it, ARE doing it today, and WILL do it tomorrow. I couldn't be more proud to say I know these people.
And yes, we have lots of help from Everett that we greatly appreciate! They train those employees everyday; coach, mentor, train, develop, and we are greatfull for that. The funny thing is that none of the help wants to leave!!!! Some are taking on permenant positions, and others keep coming back. I must ask, why is that?
The fact is that Charleston "wants" this plant, will take any work that the program asks us to take, the local area will support in anyway possible, and the State will do whatever is asked to make this happen. And we have demostrated this to the program over the last 2 years; and we wont stop, regardless of the decision by the program.
Why? Charleston sees the GA and Vought plant as blessings just as they are today. A final assembly line would be a godsend and icing on the cake. When the shipyard left us, it really hurt us and we remember that, and vow to never repeat those choices.
Everett, they may see the plant as a right, something they are entitled to, something they deserve. And they have show by thier choices they they believe they can control the actions of the company. Companies come and go, they are not required to be in any city, state or country. They are however, required to be in the area that is in the best interest for thier survival. If that is Everett, Charleston, or Hong Kong, then so be it, that is where they will operate.
Ladies and gentlemen, this is capitalism, NOT socialism, and companies make these moves everyday. Sometimes those who have felt this pain before are more hungry to attract and keep the companies that are benificial to thier area.
One more thing, I am a Chalreston native (and Charleston educated) and I can't wait to have the pride of seeing the 787 fly into Charleston, reguardless of where it completes its final assembly. Charleston has a hand in this aircraft, no matter what happens. Lets face it Everett, we are in this together no matter what.
But.......it shure would be nice to have that final assembly plant here........and have the 787 fly OUT of Charleston.
One more thing....there is a plan for hurricanes :)
July 11, 2009 at 6:06 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Neponset (anonymous) says...
Jam
You are right - time has passed and most of these craftsmen are retired and/or dead. But they were not born with these skills - they were trained. If this community of dumb/stupid folks could produce these fine craftsmen once, they can do it again with a new generation.
BTW Did your mirror welds have to be tested and pass high standards (maybe you know the drill PT, X-ray etc) or were they what I would call scrap iron welds, and did not have to pass any standards?
July 11, 2009 at 6:35 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
TheSheikh (anonymous) says...
To make quality airplane, need man not afraid to work with no sleep.. flying machine used to destroy all enemies with swiftness. -- we build flying machines and show all
July 11, 2009 at 7:25 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Jim_Isle (anonymous) says...
To quote one of the average "posters," think about it. We sent Maria Goodloe-Johnson to Seattle, so what do you think they feel about us?
July 11, 2009 at 7:47 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mkcj (anonymous) says...
In my first comment I asked and no one will answer if S.C. is the best place for Boeing why is the product we receive from them the WORST of all the parts received. I work for Boeing and my son works there on the 787 fact is fact Boeing had no choice but to buy this company to have any chance of getting this airplane built. Boeing will not see a profit for 20 years on this plane a big part of that is the problems with this plant and now they had to spend another BILLION $ more.
July 11, 2009 at 8:07 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
TRODI (anonymous) says...
Our local citizens can learn the skills needed to work for boeing.we have been outworking our competition for many years with charleston area workforces.up north some workers do not work in the rain ect.our guys/gals put on a rain coat and get the job done.period.while our leaders may have ran business away from our local port we have the best production in the united states.i say bring boeing and charleston will meet the challenge and bring a strong workforce.
July 11, 2009 at 8:33 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
CNSYD (anonymous) says...
Neponset, Yes the welds were tested. We (the shipyard) did, for example, MT, PT, RT and UT as applicable. After NDT a hydro would be performed.
July 11, 2009 at 8:55 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
eatmorecollards (anonymous) says...
mkcj: Below is a extraction from a previous P&C article on the local economy. I don't know if it answers your question or not, but it answers mine.
_____________________________________________
Vought Aircraft Industries has been recalling laid-off workers at its North Charleston plant, but the Boeing Co. supplier will not resume making new parts for the 787 jetliner until later this year.
Most of the more than 100 displaced employees who are back on the job have been installing wiring and other equipment in rear fuselages that the company made in 2008, before the factory was temporarily shut down.
Vought ceased production in North Charleston last November as a result of a two-month strike at Boeing and a rash of 787 manufacturing glitches.
July 12, 2009 at 4:38 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
youngernsmarterthanbehre (anonymous) says...
ok... come on ppl...
We all just need to calm down. We all know that he obviously doesn't know what he's talking about, and, yes, he's probably just doing this for internet publicity for the Post and Courier. There are, what, 69 of us bashing Mr. Behre? And for what? Because he's making fun of our state and our people, the same state that he resides in? Or because he's calling us "southerners" ignorant and uneducated? I'm sure his children -heh, if he has any, have you seen his picture?- are in are going to the same high schools that you and I graduated from. So let's not get upset because all this man has is an English degree. He probably doesn't even how to put together legos, let alone a plane, nor does he have what it takes. Hell, he obviously doesn't know much about math or science either or else he would know exactly what type of natural diasasters Seattle, WA, and 'the city that he lives in' faces.
So let's just leave this article alone, and let's not give this man the satisfaction...
Let's get back to doing what we do best - building the plane.
July 12, 2009 at 11:40 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
yird (anonymous) says...
Posted by badplf on July 11, 2009 at 8:54 a.m. (Suggest removal)
a back-asswards state obsessed with the confederate battle flag. a psuedo-conservative state that gives lip-service to freedom and liberty but whose christian bible thumpers use the police power of government to impose their morality on everybody else.
a state stimied by such inbreeding and ignorance that it repeatedly elects such idiots as ravenel, ford, altman, riley, mcconnell, harrell, thurmond, and all the rest for life.
sc - you deserve what you get.
==========================================
What we don't deserve to get is the likes of you.
July 12, 2009 at 1:20 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
yird (anonymous) says...
Posted by DougHuffman on July 11, 2009 at 4:53 a.m. (Suggest removal.
Bubba and Pancho compete for the same squeegie-man jobs.
=================
Maybe you should get yourself a "squeegee" and see if they'll let you have a piece of the action.
Posted by DougHuffman on July 11, 2009 at 5:03 a.m. (Suggest removal
Zero volcanic eruptions of note historically compared to tens of notable hurricanes.
======================
"tens of notable hurricanes." ???????
Aside from Gracie in 59 and Hugo in 89 no hurricane of any "note" has struck Charleston.
Posted by DougHuffman on July 11, 2009 at 5:03 a.m. (Suggest removal
Read Charlotte Thomson Iserbyt's 'The Deliberate Dumbing Down of America' to learn of Chuckton's basest failing.
====================
Why bother. Reading your posts provides all the evidence needed to confirm the Dumbing Down of America.
The gloomy soggy Pacific Northwest is looking for people to protest anything and everything. Go now, avoid the rush!
July 12, 2009 at 1:40 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
sandcrab (anonymous) says...
If I were a well-paid Boeing professional, I'd be seriously weighing the advantages of each locale. Such information is easily obtained on the internet.
In terms of public schools, in Seattle the 35 top schools rank from 97th to 99th percentile. In Charleston, there is Academic Magnet.
http://www.neighborhoodscout.com/resu...
If you want medical care, MUSC Medical Center is in the 70th percentile; there is 95th percentile care, though, just three hours away in Union. Seattle's best hospitals only get a 92 and a 95, but if you want the very best, you can get the 100th percentile of care in an hour and a half. http://www.healthinsight.org/performa...
If your daughter wants to serve in the state legislature, WA's lawmakers are 31% female. SC's percentage is 8.8, lowest in the nation.
http://www.allianceforwomen.net/news/
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rosters/Member...
If you want to go to the opera, the Seattle Opera presents all year; this season, Wagner's entire Ring Cycle, three Verdis, and an American debut. In Charleston you have opera for seventeen days.
http://www.seattleopera.org.
If Boeing comes to Charleston, then Charleston will have a chance to become a Seattle, but it will take time and pioneering philanthropic spirit.
July 12, 2009 at 8:09 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
fixin2go (anonymous) says...
All I can say to SC is be careful for what you ask for...you may get it. Over-priced housing, overcrowded roads are a couple things to look forward to. There is definitely an air of arrogance out here in Western Washington, just ask the eastern part of the state. Oh, and for the folks that use the same old stereotype that Southern folks are uneducated...I am a Boeing engineer that grew up down south. Just watch and see how quickly the machinists back-peddle from last years militant position.
July 13, 2009 at 3:06 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
cathycurry (anonymous) says...
Enough already with the Yankee bashing from the rebels of the south who apparently are still suck in the 1800's. Washington State was never part of the United States during the Civil War and I would think that most educated Americans would know that but apparently some Southerners (fortunately for me I'm considered a misplaced southern by my daddy's family) are not vey well educated on when and why we have 50 states and two territories that have yet to become states. The reason for buying the plant is purely economical and if Boeing chooses to build a second assembly line in South Caroline, they will still have to ship parts there along with creating or recreating what all ready exists in Everett, WA. This isn't to say it won't happen, but until the deals done and the plant is built or until the fat lady sings it still is up in the air much like the Northrup Grumman plant in Alabama. It's all business and keeping the company in the black, nothing more or less.
July 13, 2009 at 4:49 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
cjw (anonymous) says...
To say the least, I am highly embarrassed by the way washingtonians are responding to the south. Honestly if I was Boeing I would pack up and head out too. Yes I do work at Boeing and it is a great company. But alot of Boeing employees seem to think that because they have a higher education they apparently know it all. Or that they are the only mechanics that can build an airplane. If Boeing does put a line in SC, I would be the first to pack up and go. Just for the fact that southern people are a heck of a lot more down to earth and nicer and don't think everybody else in the world is beneath them.
I must say, shame on the naysayers that have posted here. Your attitude is one of the main reasons Boeing is looking elsewhere. Take a look in the mirror before you start slamming "Hillbillies" you don't even know.
July 15, 2009 at 4:51 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
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