Carriage company is cited

sardis12 (anonymous) says...

Mr. Knoth's operation has had a terrible reputation for quite a while, and the conditions never seem to improve, so the time has come to shut them down. If not, fine him the maximum to give him incentive to either work out the problems or face a judge again...

July 10, 2009 at 1:22 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

livemusic (anonymous) says...

Bobby Knoth's treatment of his horses is reminiscent of his father's treatment of investors in the 1980's.

July 10, 2009 at 2:21 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Two_Sheds (anonymous) says...

They were combining bleach with ammonia-producing urine?! What were they trying to do, gas the horses to death?! It says right there on the bottle of Clorox: "do not mix with ammonia due to risk of toxic gas formation." Morons!

July 10, 2009 at 2:38 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

signseeker17 (anonymous) says...

If he goes before Judge Maloney (a family friend) at Liveability Court, he'll get off. Even if he doesn't, he'll pay the fines (fines don't mean anything to the Ks), and that's the end of this year's carriage company controversy. Back to business...

July 10, 2009 at 4 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

lifeisprecious (anonymous) says...

Thanks to Allyson Bird for continuing to cover this story and keep us informed. I too, doubt that the City will shut down the operation, but at least we'll have this evidence to build on. We need to continue to watch out for these horses no matter what the outcome of the hearing. It will take time, but I won't be happy until the Knoth's can no longer own and exploit animals. I've seen comments on this story from a lot of caring people. We need to organize or join the ongoing efforts to get this done.

July 10, 2009 at 6:51 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

theronce (anonymous) says...

There's too much smoke to not have a fire. If so, then the company will be rocked. Few tolerate animal abuse.

July 10, 2009 at 7:25 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

billtom (anonymous) says...

This company is the rotten apple in the barrel. Sounds like they have been fined before and even shut down for 2 days. Big deal! Hasn't taught them a thing! Shut them down entirely. The max fine would be $6600 according to the article, which would be a drop in the bucket. They could make that up on a good weekend.

July 10, 2009 at 7:47 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

kendl44 (anonymous) says...

Shut them down!

July 10, 2009 at 8:11 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

headscratchin (anonymous) says...

Time to call "60 minutes" or "20/20". If bad local publicity is not working maybe national bad publicity will embarass city officials enough to take appropriate action.

July 10, 2009 at 8:22 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

lawrendm (anonymous) says...

It is time to picket downtown. Provide copies of this article to all the tourons standing in line for their ride around the block. This is despicable. I will send to 20/20 today and to Conde Nast Traveler Magazine who honored Charleston as a Top 10 travel destination in the U.S. Not if you're a horse though.

July 10, 2009 at 8:46 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

YankeeLady (anonymous) says...

I was downtown last weekend, and obtained several photos of seriously underweight horses, with the names of the carriage companies. Who can I send these to?

July 10, 2009 at 8:54 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

belknancy (anonymous) says...

They have aways neglected there animals just like there employee's. It's easy for everyone to complain about it but nothing is ever done to fix the problem. There needs to be less talk and more action done about the this.

July 10, 2009 at 9:04 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

tallblonde (anonymous) says...

This just breaks my heart to read. To call it a "Code Violation" sounds like someone left their trash can out too long. These are animals - beautiful animals - just call it what it is - Animal Abuse.

July 10, 2009 at 9:06 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

blacman (anonymous) says...

I got nothing against animals but where is the outrage about kids living in poverty in our poor neighborhoods in the inner city? if they can see the horses being abused why can't they see the conditions in the projects? Good luck to the horses in any event.

July 10, 2009 at 9:22 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

beentook2 (anonymous) says...

So, the Holy City treats horses like dog food. Never thought the City cared about anything but the tourist's dollar anyway. Sounds like this Knoth fella knows all the right people. It would not be a pleasant site, but if one of his horses would drop dead in the middle of Market Street maybe someone from the City would wake up and do something other than say, "Oh my, there is a dead horse on the street". On second thought, ain't nothing to happen to Knoth. Characters like him and sticky fingers Maurice up at State are Teflon coated. It has been documented that Teflon can cause cancer and no doubt this character is a cancer to horses. According to a friend the only thing that will negatively affect Teflon is extreme prolonged heat. Perhaps not in this world but in another Teflon Knoth will under go the cure.

July 10, 2009 at 9:30 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

maeko (anonymous) says...

most of this is serious neglect. they lied about it and it's not the first allegation. they need to be shut down.

July 10, 2009 at 9:32 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

HERE_AND_THERE (anonymous) says...

blacman, got nothing against poor neighborhoods BUT they are occupied by folks who have yet to understand the power of education and hard work. How long have they squandered opportunities in favor of doing nothing, screwing around in schools and I know this is stereotyping BUT, falling into criminal behavior? I know it is the children that suffer, but when are the ADULTS going to wake up and see it? These horses have no choices, neither did their parents and for goodness sakes, let's remember they are animals at our mercy for their survival. Use your brain! If those people in the projects wanted things to be different, have them all turn on the drug dealers, criminals and thugs instead of house them,hide them and look the other way. Good luck to those who help themselves.

July 10, 2009 at 9:35 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

blacman (anonymous) says...

here_and_there
I've been a lurker for quite a while before I decided to jump in. I'm familiar with the regular posters who, like yourself, love to stereotype. I am educated, I don't committ crimes, and I grew up dirt poor. You claim you know it's the children that suffer then contradict yourself by saying the ADULTS need to wake up and see it. Have you ever gone to bed hungry, woke up hungry, gone to school and tried to pay attention? Didn't think so. Since you've never spent a night in the projects, you'll never know why the drug dealers and criminals appear to have shelter there. I encourage you to look thru the kid's eyes not the parents. Like I said earlier, I love animals and hope they are not being mistreated.

July 10, 2009 at 10:05 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

coolfreaknbeans (anonymous) says...

I have to slightly agree with blacman. It causes me concern when people ( especially in gov't) seem to care more about animals than people. Although, I hope they can help these poor animals. The situation sounds cruel and despicable. With the first mention of PETA I find it harder to care. They are a ridiculous bunch of nut jobs. Remember when O'Bama (GASP!) killed a fly ?

July 10, 2009 at 11:10 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

HERE_AND_THERE (anonymous) says...

blacman, not a usual poster. I'll answer your questions by several of my own. Have you taught any of those kids? Have you dealt their illiterate, sometimes drunk or high, parents to try to further their education? Have you, at the secondary level, tried to influence them NOT to listen to the morally indecent music that fills their head and rather concentrate on what will help them out of their plight? Have you ever tried to convince their parents that it is far more important to spend time reading to and with them, rather than "kicking it" with their posse?
I encourage you to look at the cause and lay blame where it really lies. I have been to bed hungry and I grew up dirt poor. The difference with me was that my parents, while not being educated, figured it out and MADE me get a great education. Taking on extra jobs to put me through college and supporting me continually. Placing their lives on hold to make sure mine was at the forefront. Do not chastise me about not being poor, not understanding. I have lived it, taught through it and now I am in a position where I can better help my own children get a better start than I even got. My parents were PARENTS. Thats what we don't have alot of in the projects. Figure a way to correct that......and you have the answer to our country's problems of the future.

July 10, 2009 at 11:19 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

abitskeptical (anonymous) says...

blacman-I agree w/ your point that often policies & agendas seem misguided as far as priorities go (I am guessing that is what you are thinking?).

The care & protection of people, especially the innocent & vulnerable, should be a priority that is #1.

The issue of the children in the projects is, naturally, more complicated than the issue of the horses, however. Such things as parental rights &, of course, the race issue comes into play.

You said to Here&There "You claim you know it's the children that suffer then contradict yourself by saying the ADULTS need to wake up and see it".

How is that statement a contradiction?

These kids have parents & legal guardians. Well meaning folks cannot just swoop in & rescue them w/out a mess of legal ramifications. Of course, in the most dire of cases, that does happen.

Are you implying that it needs to happen more?

In addition to food stamps, there are opportunities galore in this city--crisis ministries,soup kitchens, church pantry/food give aways--such that these children should not be going to bed hungry. If they are, then the adults in their lives are neglecting them & the children should be removed from their "care".

I do not personally know any children in this situation, but if I did, I would point the parents in the direction of help to feed them. If the parents refused or neglected to engage in getting the "free food" I would then report them so corrective measures to feed the children can be taken.

In case you are anyone else is interested, 2 of the most reputable food charities I know about are:
Food for the Poor &
America's 2nd Harvest/Feeding America

July 10, 2009 at 12:02 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

nextexodus (anonymous) says...

I am Nancy Lane, the person who is accusing Carolina Polo and the Knoth's of animal abuse and neglect.

To everyone who would like to help:
There is a court date Monday at 8:30am in the Greensburg Bldg at 180 Lockwood Blvd.
There is a city council meeting on July 21, 2009 call (843) 724-3727 for up to date info on time and location as it is subject to change.
Please send me any pictures you have or documentation of previous abuse so I can add them to my complaint. My email is NancyMLane@gmail.com
You can email any pictures or documentation of abuse to Danielle Dillahey at dillaheyd@ci.charleston.sc.us, Desiree Acholla at DesireeA@peta.org and most importantly, because she will keep this alive, send everything to Allyson Bird at abird@postandcourier.com so she sees exactly how many people care.
The biggest thing you can do to help is to "do something". For to long everyone quietly complains about how the Knoth's mistreats their animals. He really believes he is above the law and laughs at every attempt that has been made to stop him. I think if enough people get together we can put a stop to this man.
Take pictures, tell your friends, complain to the city and animal control but most importantly is don't forget.

July 10, 2009 at 12:04 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

acharlestongirl (anonymous) says...

Carolina Polo Carriage has been the bad apple in the bunch since the beginning. Since their inception they have continually laughed in the face of any violations they received and used local connections and money to get off without a scratch. SOMEONE needs to follow this through and have them shut their doors permanently. They make the legitimate operators look bad. Close them down!

July 10, 2009 at 12:15 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

YouKnowMe (anonymous) says...

blacman - I am with you all the way!

I love animals, but a human being is much more important!

I would love to see some of these self aggrandizing posters go out and actually contribute to the community they are constantly berating.

However, I am pretty sure they wouldn't want to "sully" themselves.

July 10, 2009 at 12:47 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

citizenmom (anonymous) says...

I add my voice to the chorus: shut them down. Thanks to Nancy Lane for making the complaint and to the P&C for continuing to report on this.

July 10, 2009 at 12:48 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

vmirat90 (anonymous) says...

Bless you, Nancy. This is outrageous, and the way that these poor creatures have been treated is criminal. People need to realize that it is our responsibility to look after and protect these helpless innocent creatures.

If it were up to me, I wouldn't even allow the carriages, but I understand that some would consider that extreme.

July 10, 2009 at 1:22 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

abitskeptical (anonymous) says...

YouKnowMe...don't you know better than to assume?

You usually end up looking like, well, an arse.

How do you know that people commenting on a situation have not "actually" contributed time, talent, treasure or any combo of these to help the community?

The answer is: You don't know diddly squat about the charity work done by posters anonymous to you.

In fact you might not know about charity work done even by people you know.

Many people who contribute to charity are rather humble about it & keep quiet about their good deeds. Somehow I get the feeling that such a concept might be foreign to you, but of course I concede I do not know you & I might be wrong on this.

As ONE simple example out of the many w/ which I am familiar, I know a fella who goes to the Low Country Food Bank regularly, loads up the food & delivers it to a downtown church for the grocery give away ministry. He did this part of the work for a good while before I found out about it (but not from him). He wants to do this without any attention on himself.

I had known this young man for well over a year & never knew he did this. I found out only because another person who joins him in this work mentioned it.

July 10, 2009 at 2:20 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

abitskeptical (anonymous) says...

Sorry, didn't mean to hi-jack the thread...just felt compelled to respond to a couple of posts.

In regard to the article:

It is difficult to comment w/out more info. We have the privilege & responsibility to look after the animals in our lives. Seeing one or 2 slices of a pie does not tell you for certain what the rest of it looks like.

I have to wonder if some of the people complaining know what a healthy horse/mule is supposed to look like.

There are people, & even entire cultures, who have no regard for animal life. And certainly that needs to be addressed when possible.

Then there are some who have such a radical out of touch stance that they render their own opinions invalid.

I have a whacked out sister-in-law who believes that anyone looking for a pet dog which also will be a guard dog for their young children is guilty of animal abuse because they are "using the animal for their own gain" rather than just "loving" the animal & taking care of it.

I imagine there are some people who think that working a horse in any way, including simply riding it, is abuse.

July 10, 2009 at 2:49 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

whatelseisthere (anonymous) says...

Go Nancy Lane!! Keep posting and get the word out. People will come. Are we allowed to say anything to the tourons while they are on the carriage ride? Now that would be fun. How about getting in front of the carriage and just stop the car so they have to sit there? Really, people just need to picket where the tourons get on the carriage tour, then follow on bikes.

July 10, 2009 at 2:52 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

pluffmudder (anonymous) says...

It's about @%&ned time!!!!!! those "arzes" got caught for ABUSING and MISTREATING those beautiful innocent horses. I wish I could put a heavy saddle on one of those scumbags, strap them to a carriage pulling about 12 overweight tourists, and make sure it's one of the most hellacious hot humid days here in our beloved Holy City, and watch them literally pass out from heat exhaustion and stress. I'd step right over their bodies like they were a piece of trash. MONEY HUNGRY SCUM BAGS!

July 10, 2009 at 2:59 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Luna (anonymous) says...

abit i I believe you missed a little word in YouKnowMe's post....Some. That one little word changes the whole meaning.

Just saying.......

July 10, 2009 at 3:12 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

charlescarolina7 (anonymous) says...

I can't believe the arrogance of a family and of a business. They have no regard to animals, the carriage industry, the law and this city. If the mayor allows Judge Maloney to hear this case he should be ashamed. They should be more than fined seeing they are under investigation by the city. The feeling of entitlement catches up as it obviously did to the elder Knoth in the 80's. You would think they would want to clear their reputation versus just making it worse.

July 10, 2009 at 4 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

MontessoriMom (anonymous) says...

SHAME ON THEM.

July 10, 2009 at 4:39 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Lazy2009 (anonymous) says...

Heres an idea. Shuttle the idiot tourists around in buses. We have modern traffic downtown and there ain't no room for horses!

July 10, 2009 at 5:43 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

abitskeptical (anonymous) says...

Luna-Nope..I didn't miss a word of that post. The word "some" does not have any great impact one way or the other in what youknowme's post conveyed.

But you certainly have the right to believe it changes the WHOLE meaning if that's what you want to believe....

Just saying....

July 10, 2009 at 6:25 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

southernlady (anonymous) says...

Okay, let's get back to the issue and not get on our own political issues. Kudo's to Nancy Lane for standing up for the horses. They do not have a voice of their own and depend on humans for their care. These people are in it for the money, heck with the horses! If anyone hasn't noticed it is called "Carolina Polo and Carriage Company". This is so they can write off the expense of their polo horses on their business. They most likely don't take any better care of their polo horses than they do their carriage horses, just use them as sport equipment, like they use their carriage horses. They are scum and give caring horse owners shivers down their spine. They do have friends in high places and most likely will get a slap on the hand, the "good ol' boys club"!

July 10, 2009 at 8:02 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

rhyno (anonymous) says...

WOW ! Is that true? 5 horses dead in two years to the same owner? Something is wrong with that!Either he is buying very old horses, they are being abused, or they were insured... Having grown up on a horse farm in Ky. with up to 40 head of horses at a time. I can remember loosing two in thirty years they walked out on a frozen pond together and fell through during the night.

July 10, 2009 at 9:36 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

RedHorse7 (anonymous) says...

Has anyone ever noticed the touristas on some of the carriages? There should be a weight limit. Some are so fat that one cheek is hanging over the side. Poor horses! To have to pull these "hogs" around and then be underfed with substandard hay and medical treatment. I would love to "adopt" these magnificent creatures and properly care for them. "Bless the beasts and the children, for in this world they have no voice, they have no choice".

July 10, 2009 at 11:11 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Maverick417 (anonymous) says...

Pretty sad that the City will fine a Carriage company $6600 for violations to horses but they are not willing to pay the full $9325 they were fined from OSHA for the Sofa Super Store fire.

"The state fined the Charleston Fire Department $9,325 for four violations. The city later reached a deal with the state that lowered the fine to $3,160 and downgraded the most serious violation."
OSHA, Sofa Super Store settle
Penalty reduced; 'willful' violation changed
By Ron Menchaca (Contact)
The Post and Courier
Saturday, January 12, 2008

July 10, 2009 at 11:14 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )