Cost for Sanford trips $70,000
Taxpayers have spent another $380,000 for governor to fly on state plane
By Tony Bartelme
State taxpayers have paid at least $70,000 for Gov. Mark Sanford's out-of-state and overseas trips, including last year's economic development mission to Argentina during which he met his mistress, state records show.
AP
Gov. Mark Sanford's travels have come under scrutiny since he admitted having an affair.
Since taking office in 2003, Sanford has taken at least one major international trip a year, flying to China, Japan, Great Britain, France, Germany, Poland, Slovakia, Brazil and several other countries, documents from the state Comptroller General's Office show.
In 2007, he touched down on two continents, attending the Paris Air Show that June and an economic forum in China a few months later. On these long trips, Sanford often flew business class at a cost of several thousand dollars a ticket, receipts for these trips show.
Sanford typically was accompanied by several aides on these trips, including Commerce Secretary Joe Taylor and his predecessor, Robert Faith. None of the records show the state paying for any of the governor's family to fly with him.
These costs are in addition to the more than $380,000 in expenses the governor's office has tallied using the state's plane to fly Sanford, his staff and family on hundreds of flights throughout South Carolina and other states.
Read more
Commerce Department travel summary of Gov. Sanford's overseas trips (Word doc)
Sanford has long railed against excessive government spending, including taxpayer-financed junkets. After he was elected to Congress in 1994, he told The Post and Courier how he agonized about a 1995 trip to Chile, Brazil and Argentina. "I know politically it's not the right thing ever to go on any trip," he said at the time.
As a congressman, and later as governor, Sanford became a frequent flyer. As governor, he took most of his trips in the summer or fall when the Legislature was out of session. Commerce Department documents show they were organized mainly to lure investment to the state. Notable destinations include:
• A trip July 16-18, 2006, to the Farnborough Air Show outside London. The Commerce Department said Sanford also held a dinner with a business prospect. The governor's tab for his airfare alone: $7,063.
• The Paris Air Show and Germany June 16-24, 2007, where the governor and aides held meetings with business and government officials. Sanford canceled meetings in Stockholm and returned early because of the Sofa Super Store fire. Sanford's plane tickets cost $9,890.
• Poland and Germany in April, where Sanford and aides met with BMW executives and government officials. Sanford's costs were $5,035. He also returned early from that trip, this time because of the wildfires in Myrtle Beach.
• The most publicized trip, however, has been the economic development mission Sanford took to Brazil and Argentina June 21-27 last year. Sanford's air fare was $8,687, credit card receipts show. During the trip, Sanford secretly met Maria Belen Chapur, his mistress. Sanford recently paid back about $3,000, which he said was the Argentine leg's cost. The State Law Enforcement Division recently determined that Sanford violated no criminal laws in the use of state money on that trip.
The Post and Courier's on-line center for investigative reporting.Are you ticked off by people who illegally use handicap placards? Want to know which restaurants are making you sick or which gas stations have bad pumps?
Check out what our Watchdog reporters found.
Sanford is by no means the only governor who includes overseas and out-of-state travel as an important part of his or her job description.
In recent months, questions have been raised about Virginia Gov. Timothy M. Kaine's traveling for fundraisers as chairman of the Democratic National Committee. An Associated Press review of Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal's travel records found that taxpayers paid for security details to accompany him on Republican Party fundraising trips and an appearance with Jay Leno on "The Tonight Show." Last year, Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin took heat for her travels, including a trip in 2007 to New York City for a leadership conference. The state paid for one of her children to travel with her and a three-night stay in a $707-a-day hotel room.
Sanford's supporters have said that his travel more than paid for itself by bringing jobs to the state. South Carolina has recruited more than 83,000 jobs and $18 billion in capital investments by companies during the governor's two terms, according to the Commerce Department.
So far, the state has received no tangible economic benefit from the Argentine trip, according to Kara Borie, commerce marketing and communication manager for the commerce department.
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lloyd007 (anonymous) says...
Yada..yada yada...Please get rid of this BUM..PLEASE. $70,000.00 for what? 83,000 jobs and $18 Billion in capital investment? How many of those jobs have already been lost? and how much are we losing in capital investment due to this bumbling idiot, so called wanna-be Latin "Loverboy"??...I do not consider him a leader of the state and I sure as hell would NEVER give another vote to ANY republican in this state or country...!!!!
July 9, 2009 at 4:01 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mmoe63 (anonymous) says...
A-S-I-N-I-N-E spells Mark Sanford. But want I don't understand is why people here in Charleston, SC area still supporting this idiot.
July 9, 2009 at 5:24 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
stanish (anonymous) says...
Sanford's supporters have said that his travel more than paid for itself by bringing jobs to the state. South Carolina has recruited more than 83,000 jobs and $18 billion in capital investments by companies during the governor's two terms, according to the Commerce Department.
That's an outright LIE! If this were TRUE, why have we ALWAYS been in the top three in the U.S. when it comes to UNEMPLOYMENT? NO Major Corporations or businesses have relocated or set up shop in S.C.! Why are we ALWAYS at the bottom in education compared to the 49 states? He was supposed to have been a Watchdog for the taxpayers in S.C., but he uses TAXPAYERS money to pay for his infidelity. Only when he's CAUGHT, he tries to make amends and only pay a SMALL portion of it back! He BREAKS the law by misusing state funds for his OWN PERSONAL gains and is NOT prosecuted like the average citizen would be. He tries to DENY unemployment funds paid to workers who benefit from it by REFUSING to request emergency funds from the federal gov't, but yet he uses TAXPAYER dollars on himself! Oh did I forget to mention he PREACHES Morality, Family Values, and God Fearing? A first class HYPOCRITE! Shame on the legislature for not making sure he was PROSECUTED!
July 9, 2009 at 5:47 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
lillycollette (anonymous) says...
Run him outta town on a rail!
July 9, 2009 at 6:30 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
bobielfield (anonymous) says...
Once again the P&C has done a very fine reporting job on this entire Sanford story, particularly the young woman reporter in Columbia, and we SC residents are continually disappointed that we see this terrible man remain our Governor... he is the new definition of the word "hypocrisy" and today's story illustrates that ... Thank you again for your good work ...
July 9, 2009 at 6:40 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
moonpie (anonymous) says...
STAN because you live here...?
"excessive government spending, including taxpayer-financed junkets". DO THEY TRACK JOBS THAT WE GET HERE AND THEN LOST?
HE SHOULD HAVE A LITTLE SELF RESPECT REMAINING AND LEAVE! HOW COULD THE STATE POSSIBLY PAY FOR ANY OTHER TRIPS FOR HIM FOR ANY REASON. WHO WOULD BELIEVE HE IS DOING WHAT HE SAID? HE STOLE FROM THE STATE, HIS WIFE AND HIS FAMILY(time not money), AND LIED TO ALL 3 THAT'S ENOUGH FOR ME TO SAY ONCE AGAIN, GET OUT!
July 9, 2009 at 6:56 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
common_sense_is_where (anonymous) says...
This is merely another attempt at selling newspapers. The "catchy" headline is designed to draw a click here, not to point out something which is unlawful or irregular. The same people griping about him going on these trips are the same people who would gripe if he hadn't. They'd claim Mark Sanford ignored many opportunities to bring jobs to the sate, blah, blah, blah. And, by the way, it is a good thing that he stood up about not taking the money from the Obamanation. Our Constitution is set up in particular ways for many reasons. We are a federalist government, with the states and the national government sharing powers, not a centralized government, and it is extremely important that our state's each keep their rights--if (when) we accept the "stimulus" money, SC will be tied to the will of the fed on issues which should not even be their concern. This is not a good thing, do some research. Certainly, I do not agree with how Sanford has run his personal life, as far as treatment of his wife and the affair situation, but jumping on the attack bandwagon from a silly article is not forward thinking in the least.
July 9, 2009 at 6:57 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
cwmcpa (anonymous) says...
I guess the Carribean junket by the congressional black caucus paid for by lobbyist and under investigation by the ethics committee does not merit mentioning. The P&C ignores potential criminal activity while celebrating the weaknesses of a confessed adulterer. No double standard here. This is tabloid journalism at its best. There was no concerns about the governor trips until the P&C smells some blood in the water. Then they send their version of Jason Blair to repeat the democratic talking points in an article that is intentionally written to insinuates an impropriety, and waits till the last 2 paragraphs to say oh by the way nothing here. If you did not vote for Sanford I understand your zeal for wanting him out of office. If you did vote for sanford I understand your regret for his actions. It is time we held ALL elected officials to the same standard regardless of what party they belong to.
July 9, 2009 at 7:04 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
JDHawg (anonymous) says...
To say anything against the the congressional black caucus would be racist.now lets not bring race into this.
July 9, 2009 at 7:12 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
theronce (anonymous) says...
I've been hard on this liar for lying...so much so that I've really been negligent in mentioning that he also is a thief. As a conservative, I cannot tolerate that either. Sanford should resign, or the rest of the government should do whatever it takes to run him off. Since the rest of the government is enabling him to stay and avoid prosecution, it also has no honor by abetting lying and theft.
July 9, 2009 at 7:18 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
fred_durst1 (anonymous) says...
stanish - there are 50 states. Hawaii 1959.
July 9, 2009 at 7:21 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
ln1959 (anonymous) says...
Posted by cwmcpa on July 9, 2009 at 7:04 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I guess the Carribean junket by the congressional black caucus paid for by lobbyist and under investigation by the ethics committee does not merit mentioning.
------------------------------------------------
You just shot yourself in the foot. Stanford was paid for by the TAX Payers, not LOBBYIST!!!!
Not saying it's right, but if your going to compare a story, make sure it's on the same level.
JDHAWG..No the statement is not racist, but the person who made it could be.
July 9, 2009 at 7:41 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
martin (anonymous) says...
Some of the state's political blogs are suggesting he was meeting Maria on some of these foreign trips. If he was, money needs to come back. How did these people come up with a nice, round figure of $3000 to pay back. What crud!
Don't try to tell me Joe Taylor, Joel Sawyer and plenty of others did not know exactly what's been going on and were conspiring to cover up.
Doesn't his regret over going on Congressional junkets sound like his regret over his affair?
This story is missing information about ALL the people, local politicians or hacks, who accompanied Mark and Joe on their junkets.
July 9, 2009 at 7:52 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
my2centsworth (anonymous) says...
I M P E A C H!!!!!
I M P E A C H!!!!!
GET RID OF THIS COCKROACH.
LET S. C. BE A FORERUNNER ON HOW TO HANDLE WASTEFUL SPENDING BY AND/OR ILLICIT BEHAVIOR OF ANY ELECTED OFFICIAL.
July 9, 2009 at 8:03 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
my2centsworth (anonymous) says...
I M P E A C H!!!!!
I M P E A C H!!!!!
GET RID OF THIS COCKROACH.
LET S. C. BE A FORERUNNER ON HOW TO HANDLE WASTEFUL SPENDING AND ILLICIT BEHAVIOR OF ANY ELECTED OFFICIAL.
July 9, 2009 at 8:27 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
RuleNumberOne (anonymous) says...
The public needs to know whether the Governor's staff knew he he was in Argentina. Simply get the phone records of calls and we'll know.He planned a ten day trip but cut it short. He had to know that trouble was brewing back home.And just how did he find out?? I'm concerned that the staff was involved in a conspiracy to hoodwink us. Surely they have a clue what their boss is up to. Were they covering up for him? P&C, please ask the questions. Don't let The State scoop you.
July 9, 2009 at 8:45 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
AMAZING (anonymous) says...
SANFORD SCANDAL PLAGUES STATE'S WEB PORTAL
The Lovenator Sanfraud's Internet Traffic overwhelms Official State Web portal
A surge of hits overran the state Web portal during the long Fourth of July weekend, slowing, stalling and at times crashing the server...
On Friday alone, when state offices were closed for the holiday, the number of hits on the site more than doubled the previous highest day's use. ...a 400-500 percent increase in traffic on the governor's Web site. ...computers "timed out," or lost access to the site... resulting in no access to the State's web portal or in some cases a 40 minutes or more wait..
"That had a significant impact on all our systems," Moore said, because all state sites run through a single system.
"Yep, Gov. Mark Sanford was getting a lot of attention in the wake of revealing his affair with an Argentine woman."
http://www.postandcourier.com/news/20...
July 9, 2009 at 9:07 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Liberals_Are_Maroons (anonymous) says...
Posted by my2centsworth on July 9, 2009 at 8:03 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I M P E A C H!!!!!
I M P E A C H!!!!!
GET RID OF THIS COCKROACH.
LET S. C. BE A FORERUNNER ON HOW TO HANDLE WASTEFUL SPENDING BY AND/OR ILLICIT BEHAVIOR OF ANY ELECTED OFFICIAL.
************************************************
It's called a "Caps Lock" key. Please press it one more time.
July 9, 2009 at 9:23 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
AMAZING (anonymous) says...
Maria Belen Chapur
http://www.facebook.com/people/Maria-...
July 9, 2009 at 9:26 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
ysillyme (anonymous) says...
Mr. Hawg~
If any wrong was ever committed by the black caucus was ever uncovered, even remotely on the level of Sanfords', anyone who mentioned it would be pounced on by every liberal civil rights, NAACP type group faster than a lacrosse player from Duke on a stripper at a frat party! Having said that....Sanford, ya gotta go bud.
July 9, 2009 at 9:31 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
AMAZING (anonymous) says...
Carlos Soto Served Mark Sanford And Maria Belen Chapur At His Restaurant, Says "Real Chapur" Is Blonde and is quite fit.
Reporter: We're here at Guido's in Palermo with owner Carlos Soto. Carlos, you told us that they had come here last year.
Carlos: Yes, Maria Belen had come before with the American, I believe, and I assumed he had something to do with the US Embassy. That day they came, I served them. I can't give a lot of details. This is an Italian trattoria and I brought them an antipasto, then a steak.
Carlos: She has blonde hair, she's physically fit. ...I had seen them together before, saw them together last year, and she had come in on other occasions
Reporter: You mentioned to me that they came here last week.
Carlos: ...the person in charge of the building where she lives told me that they came here to eat. I am sure at some other point they came here because Americans love to come and here because we serve nice Italian and Mediterrenean food...
http://guanabee.com/2009/06/guido-bar...
July 9, 2009 at 9:37 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
outrage (anonymous) says...
Posted by my2centsworth on July 9, 2009 at 8:27 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I M P E A C H!!!!!
I M P E A C H!!!!!
GET RID OF THIS COCKROACH.
LET S. C. BE A FORERUNNER ON HOW TO HANDLE WASTEFUL SPENDING AND ILLICIT BEHAVIOR OF ANY ELECTED OFFICIAL.
-------------------------------------------
He is the one who has vetoed alot of wasteful spending(over-ridden on those vetos) and tried to refuse the so called "stimulus funds".
Now you are saying he was wasting money!
Make up your minds.
* Al franken - Tax problems
* Charlie Rangel - Tax Problems, ethics problems
* Tim Geithner - Tax problems
* "Duke" Cunningham - Bribery
* William Jefferson - Bribery
and so on, and so on!
All these criminals and you go after a guy who cheated on his wife. You better build some more jails for the rest of the adulterers out there!
July 9, 2009 at 9:42 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
outrage (anonymous) says...
ysillyme - The Duke Lacrosse players did nothing wrong and now the D.A. is in trouble for railroading them.
Piss poor joke, my friend!
July 9, 2009 at 9:45 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
AMAZING (anonymous) says...
Exclusive: Sanford booked 10-day getaway
On or around the day his wife asked him to move out, South Carolina Governor Mark Sanford booked a ten-day trip to Buenos Aires, a person familiar with the governor's travel plans told POLITICO.
Sanford booked the trip on Delta Air Lines on June 10, using the company's SkyMiles program, the source said. He bought a ticket for June 18, returning June 28.
Jenny Sanford said yesterday, June 24, that she'd "asked my husband to leave two weeks ago."
Sanford's trip was cut short after the local press raised questions about his absence, but the dates offer a glimpse into both his decision to depart as his marriage frayed, and after months of counseling.
The bookings also cast light on the governor's recklessness, and his belief, or hope, that he could vanish from the state for well over a week without raising questions about his absence.
He spent his time in Buenos Aires in Palermo, a fashionable residential neighborhood, and was not, reportedly, a recluse: He was seen in the local bar, Guido's, with Maria Belen Chapur last week.
http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmit...
July 9, 2009 at 9:46 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
AMAZING (anonymous) says...
SANFRAUD TRIPPING OVER HIMSELF, CAN'T KEEP HIS STORIES STRAIGHT
In 1998, here's what the then-congressman had to say about the Bill Clinton sex scandal: "What the American public cares about is the issue of trust: because if they don't trust their lawmaker: they won't trust the laws that the lawmaker creates."
Sanford also spoke to the Post and Courier in 1998 about Clinton. He said, "I think it would be much better for the country and for him personally (to resign). I come from the business side. If you had a chairman or president in the business world facing these allegations, he'd be gone."
The statement had a good deal to do with Clinton not telling the truth under oath, but later that year, Sanford addressed another sex scandal with Louisiana congressman Bob Livingston.
"The bottom line is that he still lied. He lied under a different oath and that's the oath to his wife: so it's got to be taken very very seriously," Sanford said.
Now more than 10 years later Sanford is in the grips of a sex scandal of his own.
VIDEO AND FULL STORY:
http://www.counton2.com/cbd/news/loca...
July 9, 2009 at 10:03 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
theronce (anonymous) says...
Good idea...squeeze the staff. They're not all governors and have less protection. "What did you know, and when did you know it." Make dig that hole; make them lie some more. The more they lie, then the more apt they'll trap themselves. Are there any reporters in print or on air in this state? I know there has got to be a fair liberal wingnut reporter out there somewhere. Where are you when a conservative has a need for you.
July 9, 2009 at 10:07 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
nopartisan_noproblem (anonymous) says...
All of this worry over the $70,000 in so-called wasteful spending. Shouldn't we be attempting to impeach Obama and over half of congress for that approved $800 billion is wasteful spending, or more-so an advance on wasterful spending.
And does everyone wanna know why we are so far behind in education and employment. Because many of our citizens have no pride. Maybe it has to do with the fact that we cater to people that don't succeed or even attempt to succeed in life. Why do you need a job or an education when the taxpayers are gonna take care of you. I gurantee you if we eliminated the welfare state, we would have soaring numbers of employment and high school graduates. You are gonna go out there and make that money when no one is gonna be there to give it to you.
Let's make personal success an incentive for staying in school and employed, as oppose to dependence and easy living ( and it is easy if you aint payin for S%!^) as in incentive for failure or complacency.
July 9, 2009 at 10:10 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
vmirat90 (anonymous) says...
outrage- you are making this a partisan issue..are you kidding me? Are you sure you want to play that game? Can name more republicans with scandals that you just did. Sure you want to play that game?
It is a power issue- not a party issue. It is rampant in both parties, and term limits is the only answer.
July 9, 2009 at 10:32 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
AMAZING (anonymous) says...
Philandering South Carolina governor Mark Sanford has said little about the most beautiful sound he ever heard, "Maria," his horizontal tango partner from Argentina, so TMZ.com did a little lurking around Buenos Aires night spots.
Carlos Soto, owner of Guido's Bar, says Governor Mark Sanford and Maria Belen Chapur have stopped in several times over the last few months - most recently last week, while Mark Sanford was - wink, wink - hiking the Appalachian Trail to decompress after a tough legislative session.
Soto says the lovers were "all over each other" last week, "kissing, holding hands and drinking wine."
As for Maria, Soto said she has green eyes, dirty-blond hair and "un cuerpazo," which TMZ translated to mean "a banging body."
July 9, 2009 at 10:37 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
UrGatorbait (anonymous) says...
Bring on another dead horse....sheesh
July 9, 2009 at 11:09 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
ltgrunt (anonymous) says...
Nopartisan, I disagree with your assertion that taking away welfare would magically make everyone work harder and dramatically reduce unemployment. Contrary to the traditional, economically elitist view of unemployment, most unemployed aren't in that situation by choice.
It's arguable that instead of reducing unemployment, removing welfare would simply increase the number of homeless unemployed.
Unemployment doesn't come about solely because people are lazy - keep in mind that in many cases, maybe even most cases, unemployment comes about because there are fewer jobs than people.
Your argument that a lack of incentive to succeed makes people not succeed is flawed. Why would anyone work hard to succeed if taking handouts was such an easy, acceptable, sure thing? Knowing that I could just give up and live off the state, why do I instead work hard to provide for and improve myself? The argument that just because people can use the system, they will is inherently flawed. There's more to unemployment and welfare than just that.
July 9, 2009 at 11:26 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mb300sl (anonymous) says...
Please...I've heard enough about Sanford and MJ!
July 9, 2009 at 11:26 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
stanish (anonymous) says...
Posted by fred_durst1 on July 9, 2009 at 7:21 a.m. (Suggest removal)
stanish - there are 50 states. Hawaii 1959.
Yes I'm AWARE that there are 50 states! I'm aware of Hawaii Aug. 21, 1959 to be exact! In a matter of simple arithmetic if you subtract 1 from 50, wouldn't that leave with you 49? I was comparing S.C. to the other 49 states, not 50, because I subtracted 1 from 50. It doesn't matter how you try and defend your worthless, ineffective, and lousy govenor, it's still the truth! Maybe you should try and enlighten some of your backwards, uneducated posters when they try to discredit President Obama's birth certificate that Hawaii IS a state in the U.S. with equal footing and accorded all the rights and privileges the other states enjoy.
July 9, 2009 at 11:53 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
nopartisan_noproblem (anonymous) says...
Itgrunt, you do have the option to give up and live off the state.
"Why would anyone work hard to succeed if taking handouts was such an easy, acceptable, sure thing?"
Because some people have pride grunt. Not everyone wants to deal with the fact that they can't take care of themselves. Not everyone wants to be dependent. Some people enjoy looking around their dwelling and knowing they earned what they have. They want to set a good example to their children, that it is not okay to beg, but to earn. You're trying to tell me that if these kids in high school knew they would get nothing, that they would live broke down and homeless after high school, they would not try their best to further education in order to maintain a contentual lifestyle.
You honestly believe that if these children saw their parents bust their behinds and fully take care of themselves, that wouldn't encourage them to do the same? You don't think when these young girls see their mother with four kids living off the state, they don't inherit the mentality that that is an okay way to live?
You obviously do not live amongst these people nor did you attend school with these people. I interact with them everyday. I'm sorry, but my opinions do not come from assumptions, they come from interactional experience. I've watched my friends as I grew up attain the mentality that regardless their actions they are taken care of.
There is no reason for someone on assistance to have a cell phone, car note, pets, to be pregnant, etc. These are not necessities, these are things that people buy with the feeling that they are entitled to necessities and they can spend what little money they do earn on luxuries. That is a f****d up way to look at things. I don't care who you are.
July 9, 2009 at 11:58 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
ltgrunt (anonymous) says...
"You obviously do not live amongst these people nor did you attend school with these people. I interact with them everyday. I'm sorry, but my opinions do not come from assumptions, they come from interactional experience. I've watched my friends as I grew up attain the mentality that regardless their actions they are taken care of."
Your anecdotal claims are interesting, but I have experience with quite a number of people who have been unemployed, received government assistance and gotten new jobs and returned to providing for themselves as soon as they were able. To disparage all people on welfare the way that you do simply because of the poor opinion you've formed after watching your friends abuse the system is a bit one-sided.
"You honestly believe that if these children saw their parents bust their behinds and fully take care of themselves, that wouldn't encourage them to do the same? You don't think when these young girls see their mother with four kids living off the state, they don't inherit the mentality that that is an okay way to live?"
You don't believe that there are people on unemployment who really are putting in effort to find and secure employment and provide a good example for their kids? All of the statements you make about the unemployed and those on welfare imply that you think everyone who becomes unemployed does so by choice, and that none of those people try to remedy their situation by finding new employment.
"Because some people have pride grunt. Not everyone wants to deal with the fact that they can't take care of themselves. Not everyone wants to be dependent."
You're shooting down your own "they all want to live that way" argument. If people in general have pride in hard word and self-reliance, then the argument that poor and unemployed people are that way because they want to be doesn't hold water.
July 9, 2009 at 12:11 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
martin (anonymous) says...
Read the Commerce papers with the article. Sorely lacking in specific itinerary info: Dates, names of meetings, participants.
A trip to Scandanavia cancelled when he had to leave Europe early once. Does that mean Maria was there waiting, but if Gov. couldn't go, no other staff needed to.
Like the 5 day bird hunting of Joe Taylor in the June 08 trip to Brazil. It was a 6 day trip and 5 were so Joe could bird hunt and Mark go to Argentina?!?! Why are we paying for all those extra nights of hotels for bird and "bird" hunting?!?
Twice, TWICE, Mark came home early because of Sofa store fire & Horry Co fires. Didn't that give him a clue SOMEBODY in govt might need to know how to get in touch? Of course, we know Joel Sawyer knew where he was and was in touch the whole time.
Read the "report". It's amazing what Commerce is allowed to get away with. You guys in the press are getting there, but use more common sense to follow some of this stuff to the bitter end.
Why is SC the only state in the Union to have an office in China?!? At what cost?!?
July 9, 2009 at 1 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Luna (anonymous) says...
IT - give it up. I have fought the good fight, but there is no head harder than NoPartisan. He honestly believes that if you are poor it is purely your fault, if you are uneducated, your fault, disabled your bed to lay in, sick your fault.
All I can say is you get what you put out in this world....and a whole heap of steaming shicrap is headed his way soon.
July 9, 2009 at 1:17 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
omarro1974 (anonymous) says...
I could wile away the hours, Conferrin' with the flowers, Consultin' with the rain, And my head I'd be scratchin', While my thoughts were busy hatchin', If I only had a brain......
Sanford/Palin 2012.....two people, one brain.
July 9, 2009 at 1:18 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
nopartisan_noproblem (anonymous) says...
As much as you all bash my opinions answer this yes/no question?
Should people be forced by law to pay for others well being?
July 9, 2009 at 1:23 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
fred_durst1 (anonymous) says...
stanish - get back on your meds.
Your post says 49 states. Glad that you were or are now aware there are 50.
I don't think you'll find anywhere in any of my posts where I have every tried to defend Sanford. But feel free to rant away.
Usually my posts or comments center more on trying to understand where people get there information. I find a majority of what people quote as fact is more opinion. Myself included.
I have asked before when references are made to SC education being last in the country such as your post referenced, where that stat comes from? One person a few weeks ago provided a good reference although I don't recall SC being 49th or 50th. It was more a collection of data that as with most statistics can be made to support most any view.
July 9, 2009 at 1:35 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
nopartisan_noproblem (anonymous) says...
So you believe in financial slavery, Luna. Now I understand your standpoint. You feel the government can better handle your money and would make smarter charitable donations than you could on your own, because of this you feel others are no more fiscally responsible than yourself. You are now a drone.
Congratulations, they now have you where they want you. You have just admitted that government knows whats best. I feel sorry for you.
"He honestly believes that if you are poor it is purely your fault, if you are uneducated, your fault, disabled your bed to lay in, sick your fault."
And I didn't say all of those things were the persons "fault", I said it is definitely their own responsibility to change that situation. And I actually commended you for the willingness to help the sick and disabled. Because of people like you, it solidifies my point that people should receive their money first and then choose how to charitably distribute it, if that's what they choose to do.
"All I can say is you get what you put out in this world"
Luna, you just defeated your own ideas on societal economics. I have said many times that if you put out no means to support your family, you should receive no means to support your family. It's glad to see you finally agree with me.
July 9, 2009 at 2:07 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
ltgrunt (anonymous) says...
In honest, open discussion of real world issues, there are almost no true yes/no questions, Nopartisan.
In the broadest sense, all taxes are payments forced by law on us to pay for others' well being. In specific relation to welfare/workfare/unemployment, government provides a more reliable, controlled ability to provide assistance than private charities, which can often be overwhelmed by sheer volume of those in need, to say nothing of those who try to scam charities.
Taking your opposition to paying for others' well being to its literal extreme, no taxes should ever be paid, and the government shouldn't be able to do anything. We should all depend on ourselves and private community efforts to build roads, provide defence and everything else, right?
July 9, 2009 at 2:13 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Luna (anonymous) says...
NO - do not tell me what I think....that is just as rude as me calling them "tea baggers". I believe that "what defines a nation is how they take care of their most needy of citizens".
I also enjoy feeling morally superior to you.....I know I have a better heart and a better soul. I know that I would die for my fellow man if it would provide him with better than what I had.
So, you can spout off about how there is "always a charity to do this or that" for society, but if we all walked around with your attitude we could ne longer call ourselves human.
So, good day to you, sir, I'm done with the likes of you.
July 9, 2009 at 2:31 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
nopartisan_noproblem (anonymous) says...
I'm okay with taxes to pay for the protection of natural rights (police, courts, national defense) also infrastructure, which could be paid for my state sales tax excluding national defense). You are trying to justify me doing for anothers lack of doing. There is no justification for that.
Some guy got hooked on drugs and ends up losing his job, now I should help him, because of his mistakes. No. I'm sorry there is no way you can justify me making the right decisions to take care of many people that made the wrong decisions or bad situations fell on them, including people that unintentionally got fired or hurt. I should not be forced to hold responsibility for others.
We will obviously never agree, I cannot be convinced that I should put into society for those don't.
July 9, 2009 at 2:32 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
ltgrunt (anonymous) says...
Shouldn't it be your responsibility to provide your own protection for your own natural rights? I shouldn't have to pay to protect your rights, just like I shouldn't have to pay to help you if you're unemployed, right? I've got myself to worry about, and I need all my money - I can worry about your rights once I get my whole paycheck.
"Some guy got hooked on drugs and ends up losing his job, now I should help him, because of his mistakes. No. I'm sorry there is no way you can justify me making the right decisions to take care of many people that made the wrong decisions or bad situations fell on them, including people that unintentionally got fired or hurt. I should not be forced to hold responsibility for others."
You're only taking extreme, negative examples. What about all the people being laid off because businesses are going bankrupt? Hard working people who are being put out of jobs and can't find other jobs because there aren't any available. There isn't enough charity to go around to help all of these people - what do you propose? Are you a fan of the method Swift satirically proposed in "A Modest Proposal"?
Your attitude takes no account for people who can and do work hard when they are able, but who are victims of circumstance - or worse, corporate greed. Of course no one wants to support career welfare recipients, but for those in genuine need who would work if they could, the humane option is to provide assistance, and the efficient way to do so is through a state-sponsored, tax-supported program. If you can find a way to make welfare work on bake sales and band candy, by all means let us know.
July 9, 2009 at 2:44 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
nopartisan_noproblem (anonymous) says...
I don't want to find another way for welfare to work, that is up to the people that support it and believe in it.
A big majority voted Democrat last election which means there is an overwhelming majority that believes in welfare (which many republicans do also). Wouldn't all of you who voted that way take your so-called "social responsibility" and help out others in need. Whether the majority of people that support welfare do so, so they can provide it or receive it, I don't know. Did the majority vote that way, because they wanted to see what they could do for their country, or really what their country could do for them?
If you're were on hard times and you needed help, would you feel comfortable knowing that the help you are receiving was forced on someone and taken away from them unwillingly, practically stealing it from them? Would you still feel good taking that help? If so you are a sorry SOB.
And in all honesty I am okay with your proposed personal protection, if I, my community, or my state agrees that those people that pay into it will get protected. 100% support it.
And don't get started on the evil corporate greed. This country was built on profit-motive.
July 9, 2009 at 3:11 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
ltgrunt (anonymous) says...
You seem to be making a lot of hasty generalizations about welfare, political affiliation and moral fiber, Nopartisan. Honestly, it seems like you're making these claims mostly to justify your own prejudices against those in the lower income brackets and the unemployed.
"If you're were on hard times and you needed help, would you feel comfortable knowing that the help you are receiving was forced on someone and taken away from them unwillingly, practically stealing it from them? Would you still feel good taking that help? If so you are a sorry SOB."
If I were unemployed and needed help paying my bills you're damned right I would sign up for unemployment while I searched for another job. I pay into it, and as a taxpayer it should be available to me to make use of it if and when I need to. That's the whole reason it exists. It isn't being a "sorry SOB" to make use of a short-term tool in time of need - it's being responsible to myself, my family and those who I need to continue making payments to to avoid losing the house and car.
Again, it's a matter of taxes, and if you believe taxes are stealing from citizens, then you should believe that about all taxes and you should support a powerless, impotent government. If you want all of your money, you have to accept the responsibility of organizing and paying for your own means and necessities for every facet of life, including defence and basic civil infrastructure. To not do so - to go halfway and claim that it's okay for government to do everything to keep society going in general, but damn the poor and damn the hungry - is hypocritical as a taxpayer and shameful as a human being.
"This country was built on profit-motive."
There's a solid argument for saying that this country was built on black slavery and stealing land from and killing Native Americans. All for profit-motive, of course. Profits aren't all that great if along with selling everything else, we sell our morals.
July 9, 2009 at 3:22 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
nopartisan_noproblem (anonymous) says...
Itgrunt, are you really not even going to address my second paragraph.
And I already explained the taxes I felt we should pay. I do believe in government being set-up solely to protect someone's rights. I'm not paying it to protect yours, I'm paying to protect mine. I am perfectly okay with civil infrastructure being privatized. You pay into it, you use it. And don't tell me I can't go halfway on taxes, because that would mean that you think the government should take our full checks and then divvy out the materials we need so that we are all equal. I think they've got a word for that.
Your slavery reference, that is by the means of violating anothers rights, which is never okay, so your argument would fall right through. I guess that wasn't the best way to put it for you to understand what I'm getting at. I guess I would say that our country is currently as prosperous as it is due to profit-motive. Any business owner is going to make as much as they possibly can. And if they are smart about it they will treat their employees better, but they should not be forced to. The employees are not slaves, they wilfully work there. They agree on a pay rate and if not happy they can leave. Anybody that has a job knows that they can lose it. These owners did nothing illegal, they just made selfish decisions. Which we do every day.
July 9, 2009 at 3:45 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
AMAZING (anonymous) says...
S.C. Gov. Sought 'Light' Schedule for 2008 Trip to Argentina
meetings for him in Buenos Aires in June 2008, but he repeatedly emphasized his desire to keep a "light" and "low-key" schedule in his three days there
asked his staff to arrange for him to peel off to Buenos Aires,
"The governor has decided he didn't want to do that (hunting trip) the full time but wanted to make some calls in Buenos Aires,"
email records show, a commerce employee explained to the U.S. Embassy in Argentina that there was no need for the governor's visits with Argentinian officials to be lengthy or formal.
"The Governor is perfectly content with meeting for a drink, or something to that effect" ..."but would prefer that Friday be a little more low key."
Sanford's itinerary for Friday, June 27 indicates he planned to do self-guided sight-seeing, but he has since admitted he spent it with his girlfriend ...in the June pre-planning, Graham asked the Argentinian-based U.S. officials about connecting the governor with a real estate broker on that Friday.
State Sen. John M. "Jake" Knotts Jr. (R), a vocal critic of Sanford, said the trip to Argentina was "totally uncalled for." ..."He connived a way to use the taxpayers' money to get to see his 'soul mate,' as he calls her," Knotts said in an interview today. "He called and he orchestrated the Argentina trip. There was no reason to go to Argentina except to waste the taxpayers' money and use a deal about a hunting trip. We're not in the business of going hunting whenever we're looking for jobs."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/...
July 9, 2009 at 4 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
ltgrunt (anonymous) says...
I addressed your second paragraph. See the part where I pointed out that you're making meritoriously lacking generalizations.
"And don't tell me I can't go halfway on taxes, because that would mean that you think the government should take our full checks and then divvy out the materials we need so that we are all equal. I think they've got a word for that."
You're making everything into extremes just to support your views, Nopartisan.
"These owners did nothing illegal, they just made selfish decisions. Which we do every day."
You might make selfish decisions every day, but not everyone does. Corporate greed isn't an excuse for everyone to be greedy and selfish. And I never said that corporate greed is illegal, I just pointed out the fact that it is frequently immoral.
Just a few months ago Microsoft canned about 5000 employees. The company wasn't being affected by the recession, and the employees weren't underperforming - they were let go because the shareholders wanted to increase profit margins. Is that illegal? No, but it's clearly immoral to fire 5000 people just so stocks can go up a quarter of a percent.
"The employees are not slaves, they wilfully work there. They agree on a pay rate and if not happy they can leave. Anybody that has a job knows that they can lose it."
That's not true, though. An employee unhappy with his or her pay can't always leave - it isn't as easy as a nod of the head and a wiggle of the nose to find a new job. And sure, anyone who has a job could lose it at any time, especially in a so-called right to work state like SC, but that hardly justifies employers who use and throw away employees, nor does it justify employees having no safety net for unemployment.
July 9, 2009 at 4:12 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
AMAZING (anonymous) says...
INTERESTING POST from the Post and Courier
Posted by AnaLaura on June 26, 2009
RE: Maria Belen Chapur
"See a picture of the home breaker, she had a habit, she has been sleeping around with a powerful (and mafia) man (alberto Fernandez) from the Argentinean government, I know, I live in the US but I was born in Argentina. Heck, many argentineans, including me, we speak 5 languages, but we do not sleep around and we do not break homes."
http://www.postandcourier.com/news/20...
"This woman also slept around with the local "Ted Turner" of Buenos Aires, Daniel Haddad hired her as an informal commentator even if she had no formal training. She broke his marriage too, he had 4 or 5 kids, and when their affair came to light she was sent by his news channel to cover AFGHANISTAN, maybe Haddad's wife ask him to do that, to get rid of this whore.
"She is a jaded divorcee and a gold-digger, a climber. Sorry mr Sanford, she "loved" you as much as she loved other "strong" men, not afraid to get close to mafia, in Argentina:"
July 9, 2009 at 4:15 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
nopartisan_noproblem (anonymous) says...
I was referring to the second paragraph in my previous post about the overwhelming supporters of welfare being able to take care of the masses if they fellow supporters were in trouble.
If I was running a business I had 5000 employees that I didn't need, I would do the same. People do not start businesses to provide jobs for people, they start businesses to make money. That's like me sitting at my desk and feeling like I am owed this job, solely because my company can afford to keep me. If they don't need me I would expect them to get rid of me.
And an employee can always leave. Your situation may not allow it, but that is your situation. No one else is responsible for that as I've said before and a company should not have to accomodate your lack of funds at home.
Is it better for that employee to have been used and then let go, or never used at all? It is not any one company's fault regarding the economy. You cannot expect a business to accomodate it's workers. If they don't want your position there anymore, the smart thing would be to terminate you.
July 9, 2009 at 4:28 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
AMAZING (anonymous) says...
"The witness told the radio station that someone matching Mark Sanford's description arrived at the complex, alone, with a small sports bag last week and asked to go inside the building."
Maria Belen Chapur, lives in an upscale apartment building next to the Buenos Aires Zoo, in a trendy neighborhood that is also near the US Embassy.
A witness who works in the building described her to Buenos Aires Continental Radio as a beautiful brunette with big eyes who plays tennis on a nearby lawn and runs every morning in her neighborhood.
The witness told the radio station that someone matching Sanford's description arrived at the complex, alone, with a small sports bag last week and asked to go inside the building.
The news site also reported that she worked for an agribusiness company called Bunge, but that appears to be incorrect. According to their lovesick emails that were given to South Carolina's State newspaper, Shapur also makes semi-regular trips to New York City, the Daily News reports.
Celebrity gossip website TMZ quoted Buenos Aires bar owner Carlos Soto as saying he saw the governor and his mistress last week.
He said they were "all over each over" in his Italian bar and restaurant, "kissing, holding hands and drinking wine." Soto said Maria has green eyes, dirty blonde hair and an impressive figure.
http://www.argentinanews.net/story/51...
July 9, 2009 at 5:04 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
2dogs1bear (anonymous) says...
Posted by omarro1974 on July 9, 2009 at 1:18 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I could wile away the hours, Conferrin' with the flowers, Consultin' with the rain, And my head I'd be scratchin', While my thoughts were busy hatchin', If I only had a brain......
Sanford/Palin 2012.....two people, one brain.
lol@omarro
is that like a shell game? Which one has the brain?
July 9, 2009 at 5:17 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
studley (anonymous) says...
ltgrunt: I think you are wasting your time. Many years ago in graduate school (MBA) I learned a valuable lesson.
Never debate an issue with someone who doesn't know the factual basis of the argument. You cannot win.
July 9, 2009 at 5:35 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
omarro1974 (anonymous) says...
"Never debate an issue with someone who doesn't know the factual basis of the argument. You cannot win."
________________________________________________________
Words to live by when you post on THIS board.
July 9, 2009 at 5:48 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
ltgrunt (anonymous) says...
I'm never quick to give up on trying to get through to people, Studley.
Nopartisan, it's clear that you're pro-big business, and that's fine, but your position doesn't leave any room for the employee, even one who isn't responsible for becoming unemployed and trying their level best to remedy that problem.
I can't say as I understand why you take such an antagonistic and prejudicial stance against seemingly anyone and everyone on unemployment, but your pro-business, anti-welfare attitude doesn't seem to cover it all. I get that you're all about personal responsibility, but your lack of compassion or understanding for people who don't want to be unemployed but can't find work and need some form of help which charities are frequently unable or ill-equipped to provide is perplexing.
No one likes people who abuse the system, but most people recognize the necessity and utility of some form of welfare or workfare system in dealing with legitimate problems of unemployment, especially during a recession.
July 9, 2009 at 6:52 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
gringolandia (anonymous) says...
As a foreigner, i have made some interesting observations. The user "ltgrunt" sounds alot like "vmirat" and "BlackReign" and "yird".
Have any of you/y'all normal posters considered the fact that some "not normal" folks may have multiple names or screenames under which they can add comments?
It may be hard for the normal contributors to realize, but i think this "website" is a "Sham".
July 9, 2009 at 7:46 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
AMAZING (anonymous) says...
Raw Video:
Gov. Sanford Passes Through Columbia, SC Airport on his way to Argentina to see Maria Belen Chapur
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5plz2...
July 9, 2009 at 8:25 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
AMAZING (anonymous) says...
The disappearance: June 18-22, 2009
"The first sign that the governor was again attempting a disappearing act came on June 18, when he or someone disabled the tracking device on the black state-owned SLED SUV he was taking in the direction of the airport."
Sanfraud disabled the GPS on a SLED vehicle. WOW!
This freak has a criminal mind.
As far as his staff, security detail, and family apparently knew, he was off for a weekend of solitude on the Appalachian Trail. In truth, Sanford was in Argentina.
"Now, a week after the media first became aware of Sanford's absence, it is becoming clear that Sanford's rendezvous with his Argentine lover was a gubernatorial escape of unusual daring even by his Houdini standards."
http://features.csmonitor.com/politic...
July 9, 2009 at 8:27 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
AMAZING (anonymous) says...
Flying to Argentina?
Mark Sanford certainly wasn't thinking about the welfare of his family. What if a medical emergency had come up? How would they have reached him?
Mark Sanford certainly wasn't thinking about the welfare of South Carolina or its residents, either.
Mark Sanford was thinking about Mark Sanford. His plans, what he wanted.
We've seen this single-mindedness from Mark Sanford before.
A big part of the presidential election was about how to repair the economy. The principle of a democracy is each side makes its best case and then we vote. The American public voted for the guy who backed a stimulus plan.
Sanford didn't accept that. And he went on national TV to say so again and again. AGAIN and AGAIN and AGAIN ...
And Sanfraud went on National TV ...AGAIN and AGAIN and AGAIN ...
Mark Sanford certainly disregarded that South Carolinians were going to have to repay their share of stimulus funds whether they used those dollars or not.
Over the pleas and complaints of most of the state Legislature and many, many other South Carolinians, Sanford went to court to keep stimulus money from South Carolina public schools, law enforcement, colleges, etc...
Mark Sanford made sure unemployed South Carolinians had an especially miserable, worried Christmas by delaying about as long as possible a loan request to the federal government.
It's always been about Mark Sanford.
IT'S ALWAYS ABOUT MARK SANFORD.
Not only is Mark Sanford a jerk of the highest order, he is a jerk with a criminal mind.
If the Republicans don't ride Mark Sanford out of town on a rail, they will lose most of their power in this state for decades.
If the Republicians want to support a self-serving CRIMINAL Mark Sanford, well then...
I see the RED state turning BLUE.
July 9, 2009 at 8:28 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
studley (anonymous) says...
gringo: are you really "Sam the Sham"? Where are the Pharaohs?
July 9, 2009 at 8:32 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
torde2u (anonymous) says...
Gringolandia: At least it's still "free speech"...some newspapers have shut down the comments sections. I am not sure if the current DC admin has anything to do with it or not but the Big O-Imposter fancies just having one news source controlled by government! The posters you named above do appear to have some kind of connected repoire but maybe they just relate well to each other or are like peas in a pod.
July 9, 2009 at 8:38 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
KidYendor (anonymous) says...
$70,000! That is cheap. Go look at Nancy Pelosi Belalugosi's C-32 Pentagon plane. She spends that much getting off the runway with that bad boy to go back and forth to California.
July 9, 2009 at 8:56 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
AMAZING (anonymous) says...
The Lovenator Mark "Phony" Sanfraud "demonstrated repeated failures to act in accordance with these core principles and beliefs; and...
"Whereas, The Lovenator Mark "Phony" Sanfraud's conduct, in addition to falling below the standards expected of Republican elected officials, and ...
The Lovenator Mark "Phony" Sanfraud REPEATEDLY "breached "the public's trust and confidence in his ability to effectively perform the duties of his office"
AND ...REPEATEDLY "breached "the public's trust
___________________________________________
..."voted to censure Lovenator Sanfraud for his "repeated failures" to act according to the party's core principles and said he breached the public's trust"...
Sanfraud, who has repeatedly maintained that he won't resign, said he "fully appreciates" the party's position and he "intends to work diligently to earn back its trust."
I, uh uh uh, appreciate uh uh uh ...wait ...I uh uh uh ...fully appreciate ...I fully appreciate the party's position and uh uh uh ...I intend to earn ... uh uh uh ...your trust ...yep, that's it ...your trust. Trust me.
Wait ....let me finish ... I going to spend the next ...uh uh uh ...eighteen months trying to get you to trust me.
Sir? uh Sir? How are you going to get people to trust you? uh uh uh ...wait ...let me finish ...I'm going to stop talking ...uh uh uh ...that's it, I'm just going to stop talking ...uh uh uh ...because if I stop talking then you should trust me ...uh uh uh ...where is my Delta SkyMiles statement?, I know I have some frequent flyer miles left, I know I do ...uh uh uh ...I ...I ...can't keep my soulmate waiting too long. Ya'll take care, ya here!
July 9, 2009 at 9:08 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
AMAZING (anonymous) says...
This was a whole lot more than a simple affair," he said. "It's a love story ... a forbidden one, a tragic one, but a love story at the end of the day."
Sanfraud has "promised to repay the state more than $8,000 for that leg of the trip." of the so-called "South American trade mission."
"A Statehouse rally to call for his resignation is planned for Thurs., July 9."
Sanfraud "offered a different tune when responding to other politicians' sex scandals, even after he was privately "crossing the line" with other women."
In 1998, regarding the Clinton scandal, Sanfraud said: "I don't know how that could be good for anybody," he told The Post and Courier. "I don't think it's good to have anyone who's wounded in that high an office."
"You would set in place an awfully cancerous growth if you let people out there think,'I know the president lies so I can too,'" Sanford told the Associated Press.
Sanfraud further said: "The issue of lying is probably the biggest harm, if you will, to the system of Democratic government, representative government, because it undermines trust," he said. "And if you undermine trust in our system, you undermine everything."
"What these guys start thinking is they're above the law. You saw it with the president," Sanfraud said.
July 9, 2009 at 9:11 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
studley (anonymous) says...
ltgrunt said: "I'm never quick to give up on trying to get through to people, Studley.
You cannot help someone who doesn't know they need help and won't accept help.
Personally, I rely on the power of prayer. Sometimes I questions it's power. Especially when I read some of the rants posted here.
July 9, 2009 at 9:31 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
ltgrunt (anonymous) says...
Torde, free speech only covers protecting citizens against government attempts at censorship, etc. Private groups who own and operate their own websites - like the Post & Courier - are under no obligation to let us post our rants and opinions because the 1st Amendment doesn't extend to forcing businesses to not oppress our speech, just government.
Any good news website should allow reader comments, though, as it falls in the same niche as letters to the editor. Allowing reader input and giving citizens a voice through the publication is one of the tenets of fair and unbiased journalism, even if it isn't a Constitutional right or legally guaranteed.
I recommend not buying into fantastical conspiracy theories about government controlled media and the like. If you want an example of government controlled media, look at Iran. Here we have a few mainstream news outlets (which studies show aren't really as biased as people *think* they are) and dozens if not thousands of smaller news outlets. The idea of government controlling the flow of information at this point is a hard sell, short of drastic and abhorrently obvious measures.
As far as the idea that I might somehow be connected to Yird or BlackReign, that's funny, but patently untrue. As many disagreements as I've had with those two - and all the venomous hate-speech and lies they've thrown my way - I think it should be obvious that we're quite different people.
July 10, 2009 at 8:30 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
BlackReign (anonymous) says...
grunt, relax its that troll we all love to hate - I see that pathetic loser, TheFamilyValueParty AKA getserious - is back as gringolandia!
LMAO @ the pathetic troll looking for attention and getting laughed at in his miserable, piteous, pitiful troll pudgy face.
What is it like in your cyber stalker, deluded troll world?
You have an insane infatuation with trolling. You are the very definition of a delusional twit!
You have had how many screen names that have been deleted?
TheFamilyValueParty
Readmylips
yukonsuggit,
Hehatemebro
getserious
TP
Donttasemebro
July 10, 2009 at 10:54 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
gringolandia (anonymous) says...
Regarding the obsessive, stalker accusations this person has utilized:
PLEASE BEWARE OF THIS POSTER, THEY HAVE BEEN KICKED OFF THIS WEBSITE MANY TIMES FOR PROFANITY AND THREATS OF VIOLENCE:
Posted on July 11 at 2:51 p.m.
lmao, and the lies have started...lol, come on, post an e mail..
Those screen names dont exist because they have all been deleted, due to your worthless and foul comments getserious. You are so easy.
You are still pathetic and irrelevent gringolandia!
How long to your deleted this time?
On Even more bonuses due at AIG
Posted on July 11 at 2:46 p.m.
lol yird, the fool is back!
It wont be long till the foulness of his putrid mind & soul starts to flow from his stubby fingers.
LOL
On How will new GM compete?
Posted on July 11 at 1:13 p.m.
- back as gringolandia!
former screen names that have been deleted;
TheFamilyValueParty
Readmylips
yukonsuggit,
Hehatemebro
getserious
TP
Donttasemebro
What a tool, get some new rants will ya. Still pathetic - LMAO!
On Even more bonuses due at AIG
Posted on July 11 at 1:10 p.m.
- back as gringolandia!
former screen names that have been deleted;
TheFamilyValueParty
Readmylips
yukonsuggit,
Hehatemebro
getserious
TP
Donttasemebro
What a tool, get some new rants will ya. Still pathetic - LMAO!
On How will new GM compete?
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
again folks, thank you but we all need to continue ignoring if we are serious about purging these sickos from this internet forum.
July 11, 2009 at 4:05 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
gringolandia (anonymous) says...
Also, can someone please email me or explain what this BlackRain is talking about and why they are attacking me? Thank you.
July 11, 2009 at 4:29 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
BlackReign (anonymous) says...
gringolandia AKA -
former screen names that have been deleted;
TheFamilyValueParty
Readmylips
yukonsuggit,
Hehatemebro
getserious
TP
Donttasemebro
This is why, you phony tool;
Comments by gringolandia
Posted on July 9 at 7:46 p.m.
As a foreigner, i have made some interesting observations. The user "ltgrunt" sounds alot like "vmirat" and "BlackReign" and "yird".
It may be hard for the normal contributors to realize, but i think this "website" is a "Sham".
On Cost for Sanford trips $70,000
------
Get a grip, your still the pathetic troll you have always been.
July 11, 2009 at 5:18 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
BlackReign (anonymous) says...
grunt is on to your idiocy also;
Posted on July 10 at 11:55 a.m.
Posted by ltgrunt "Gringo accused me of being you, BR. That was worth a laugh and a half."
That proves he is a lunatic!
On MoveOn.org to hold rally for health care reform
July 11, 2009 at 5:20 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
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