Sanford rips federal aid to cities
Proposed stimulus called 'a horrible mistake'; Riley defends city's wish list
By Ron Menchaca
Charleston's $1 billion wish list for federal stimulus money, which includes more than $6 million for a downtown park and $3 million for a Johns Island airport that serves private jets, recently garnered national airtime.
Gov. Mark Sanford blasted such plans as wasteful and told CNN anchor Wolf Blitzer on Sunday that President-elect Barack Obama's proposed stimulus package is "a horrible mistake" with "dire consequences for the next generation."
The Post and Courier
Included on Charleston's wish list for federal stimulus funds is $3 million to expand the executive airport on Johns Island. The project is needed to accommodate increasing numbers of private jets, officials say.
The governor said Americans have a right to be cynical about the federal government proposing to dump billions of dollars into local projects that have little or nothing to do with federal infrastructure.
Charleston is among hundreds of cities and towns that responded to a recent series of surveys from the U.S. Conference of Mayors aimed at identifying infrastructure projects that could quickly get underway and generate jobs with an infusion of federal cash.
In all, 641 cities listed 15,221 local projects considered "ready to go." The total price tag is more than $96 billion, and the number of jobs created would top one million.
Charleston's list includes more than 150 projects tied to stormwater drainage, parks, public transportation, schools and other areas. Projects in the Charleston area would spark nearly 19,000 jobs, according to the city's list.
Mayor Joe Riley said the intent of the lists has been largely misconstrued in the media or bent for political reasons by people who oppose Obama's stimulus plan.
"These are not funding requests," Riley said. Rather, the lists were intended to show the capacity for local public works projects to create jobs and get the economy moving.
Wish list
The wish list for the City of Charleston from "Mainstreet Economic Recovery," a report by the U.S. Conference of Mayors
Still, Riley said all of the listed projects are viable, and he hopes some ultimately do benefit from federal money.
Among the bigger-ticket items on Charleston's list are rail cars and railroad upgrades for a proposed commuter rail line between Summerville and Charleston. The city wants about $80 million for those.
The city also cited the need for $60 million to improve drainage near the Crosstown Expressway, $6.5 million to boost the Concord Street Park project and $3 million for expansion at the executive airport on Johns Island.
The airport project is needed to accommodate increasing numbers of private jets flying business executives and wealthy tourists to Kiawah Island for golf outings and other trips, said Becky Beaman of the Charleston County Aviation Authority.
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By contrast, Columbia identified less than one-fourth as much as Charleston, citing needs of about $250 million. Sumter pitched $41 million worth of projects, including more than $1 million for five new public buses. The survey is voluntary, and all cities have not weighed in.
Sanford told The Post and Courier on Tuesday that some lists are misleading because they include projects that already are under way and funded through existing state and local money. "There is no additional stimulus that comes from completing a project that is already underway."
Sanford said he doesn't doubt that some local projects are justified, but he opposes the larger notion that it's Washington's job to funnel pork to individual cities.
"These lists tend to multiply people's perception that there's free money out there. We are spending 95 cents to get a nickel. This is a ridiculously inefficient way of funding a local park," he said.
The fastest way to stimulate the economy would be to take the billions in proposed spending and cut a check to every American, Sanford said.
Riley said Sanford's view is in the minority. "That's a fundamental disagreement. If we don't do this, the economy will get worse and will continue to spiral downward."
U.S. Sen. Lindsey Graham said he doesn't believe Congress will wind up sending checks to the nation's mayors, and he said he expects that any federal money will flow downward through the states based on strict project criteria.
"I think it's pretty clear that the president-elect has said we're not going to have a stimulus package with earmarks," Graham said. "We're not going to pick and choose between our cities."
Robert Behre contributed to this report. Reach Ron Menchaca at rmenchaca@postandcourier.com or 937-5724.
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Comments
whome (anonymous) says...
Politically, the Obama team should have vetted the list before it went public. While we do need some public stimulus to offset private demand destruction, methinks a private airport for jets might not go over too well with the public.
January 7, 2009 at 1:08 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Smart_Enough_2_Know_Better (anonymous) says...
Sanford is right- several of those projects on the list are a complete waste of money. And as far as Riley complaining about Sanford pointing that out, if no one stands up and points out the waste, what's to stop those ridiculous projects from ending up being "accidentally" funded? It's called being a watchdog and I think Sanford was 100% right in everything he said.
I'm glad to hear the mayors (most likely) won't be getting checks. Riley would do nothing but piss the money away on useless crap that only helps him politically and may or may not do anything for the long term economic viability of Charleston.
January 7, 2009 at 1:39 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Sandy37 (anonymous) says...
When I lived West of the Ashley there were no storm drains. The drainage ditches filled to the top and the snakes swam around. Never understood why this was not a requirement when the houses were built as most houses had septic tanks and seemed very unsanitary. Glad to hear it has been taken care of...If it has not Federal Money would be well spent in this area.
January 7, 2009 at 3:29 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
CedarPosts (anonymous) says...
Sanford - "These lists tend to multiply people's perception that there's free money out there. We are spending 95 cents to get a nickel. This is a ridiculously inefficient way of funding a local park,"
Its not free money? You think?
We're in deep trouble, and unless Obama gets congress off their collective butts its just going to get worse. No amount of money is going to reverse this recession.
Small biz is suddenly closing left and right, putting more people out of work, commercial real estate is going to take a major hit and all these shopping centers that have sprung up during the last ten years are going to be some kind of ugly.
One a lighter note Obama names Sanjay Gupta the nations top medical officer and Jack Bauer to CIA chief. More at http://cedarposts.blogspot.com
January 7, 2009 at 3:35 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
LocalHero (anonymous) says...
Go down to Sunrise Park on James Island where the city is doing some improvements and look at the big granite block "monument" stuck there with all the politicians names chiseled into it. Just imagine the thousands of dollars spent to buy and install this useless piece of political advertising. It's a classic example of an irresponsible waste of money by self serving government officials. Lets find someone with more common sense/integrity to decide how the big government handout will be spent.
BTW, there's also two granite benches placed so anyone who wants to sit and stare at the block can do so. Knock yourself out...
January 7, 2009 at 5:52 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
sig (anonymous) says...
I wish Governor Sanford would run for President. He may have been born with a silver spoon in his mouth, but I love the way he fights waste.
Who cares if Riley gets mad. The people of Charleston have voted him in how many times? Maurice Washington should have been elected the Mayor of Charleston.
Go Goverfnor Sanford. Investigate all agencies that use tax payers money. Start with DHHS and DSS. At least $100 million in Fraud, Waste and Abuse at DHHS each year and the same can be said for DSS. I still can not get over the fact that we are giving welfare folks $60.00 a month gas cards to offset the cost of transportation.
January 7, 2009 at 6:57 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
bullygirl (anonymous) says...
Riley with $1 Billion equals bad idea. And how does a park cost $6 million?? If the government is going to be handing out money I would rather get a check personally than for another park to be built or a private airport that I will never get to use.
January 7, 2009 at 7:12 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
nappyd (anonymous) says...
Don't we have enough problems with crappy roads and dangerously old bridges statewide still?
Why not fix these before some yuppies get to fly in to Johns Island on bigger planes?
God forbid they have to actually drive across Charleston & see the city. That would require them to rent a car...HEY! that boosts the local economy! Wow, this making tough economic decisions thing really isn't so hard after all. Its just common sense on stuff.
So seriously, why not focus in on smaller, higher need projects statewide? Maybe even just repave the roads. That'd please all those rich people who are pissed that oil is so cheap and need an excuse for it to be expensive again.
January 7, 2009 at 7:26 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
greyman (anonymous) says...
A big 6 million dollar park is a great idea Obama. Now all the people that have lost there job ,and are homeless will have somewhere to sleep.
January 7, 2009 at 7:45 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Tides (anonymous) says...
Mayor Riley needs to be criminally investigated. Mayor Riley is corrupt to the core. The peasants must gather their pitchs forks and rise up against Mayor Riley and throw him into the dungeon where he belongs. He is a nothing more than a demon in sheep's clothing.
Snap out of your delusion. Riley is entwined with all of this corruption in politics. You want change you better demand a full audit of Charleston City Hall to expose him; unless, of course, you are a demon too.
January 7, 2009 at 7:52 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Tides (anonymous) says...
Clearly, Riley is a LIAR!
January 7, 2009 at 7:53 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
charleston1960 (anonymous) says...
Where do I send my list?
I want $1 million to complete the park I am building for my family and friends.
I want an additional $500,000 to put a fence around it to protect the kids from sexual predators.
I want an additional $300,000 to install cameras so we can monitor the kids as another line of protection.
I want $10 million to install an underground rail service to the park so the kids can travel safely to and from the park.
I will also need an additional $620,000 to build an activity building in case of inclement weather.
About $15,000,000 should suffice. The extra would cover change orders to the project. This will provide approximately 1000 jobs. Of course, I will have to lay off 985 of the workers when the work is completed. Unless you throw some more truckloads of money to me so I can build more structures to benefit a few.
BTW, I will promise to install a monolithic obelisk that has my name on it when completed. Or before if you so desire. Benches included!
January 7, 2009 at 7:57 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Tides (anonymous) says...
"...... spark 19,000 jobs" .. Yeah, for illegal mexicans. Anyone notice the illegal mexicans working on Charleston County Schools? Amazing!!!! They are still everywhere and your own government doesn't care what the law says.
When people in government do not enforce the law, when people in government abuse the law to benefit themselves and their friends and special interest, when people in government abuse the tax payers, and it all gets so out of control like it has, there is only one way for tax payers to get control back from the tyrants.
The American Revolution happened for a reason. Sad to say, Our own government has turned into our enemy because of their own swollen heads, greedy selfs, and crooked ways.
You can only push the masses of citizens around so much before they gather in huge numbers and revolt.
January 7, 2009 at 8:03 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
zekemire (anonymous) says...
The so called jobs "created" by these projects ARE TEMPORARY AND SERVE NO ONE!!!
January 7, 2009 at 8:10 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
desspec (anonymous) says...
Federal stimulus money is tax dollars confiscated from us ... we're going to pay ourselves to get out of our economic situation ... maybe I can do that at home ....
January 7, 2009 at 8:26 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Larz13 (anonymous) says...
Here's an idea:
If you want to upgrade an airport that serves only private jets--charge those using that facility more to pay for the improvements! People like Madoff won't notice (well...he may notice now) the extra $$ in the takeoff/landing fees.
The CCAA is already hosing us who use CHS by charging about the same for parking as they do at Washington Dulles Airport! To pay for more opulant facilites on John's Island that gets minimal use???? Ridiculous!
January 7, 2009 at 8:27 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
laurasmorris (anonymous) says...
It never ceases to amaze me how Sanford does his knee jerk Libertarian thing without any regard to fact and so many of you just jump off the cliff with him without actually giving it any thought. Whome questions why these project were not vetted before being made public. What do you think is going on now? Nobody has even suggested these would be funded! The Conference of Mayors and others were requested to develop lists of "shovel ready" projects in an effort to ascertain the need for infrastructure and an estimate of the number of jobs that would be created. As for these lists being made public, would you rather they were passed along in secret and not published until funding decisions were made? Or, worse yet, that these decisions were made in Washington without any local input? Not me. I'm glad to see what is being considered, knowing full well that many of them will ultimately not survive the smell test.
As for Sanford's suggestion that we just cut taxes again, I wonder what rock he's been under that he doesn't see we've been doing that nationally and in this state for the past eight years and it clearly has not helped the economy.
January 7, 2009 at 8:33 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
yird (anonymous) says...
The British are coming!
January 7, 2009 at 8:34 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
geekboy (anonymous) says...
Please don't feed the trollander.
January 7, 2009 at 8:47 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
CedarPosts (anonymous) says...
I'd expect many many more "public works" projects. Then privatization of the public works projects down the road, where the eventual private sector owners are the big ole fat cats who got us into this mess in the first place.
It is going to be a busy year for congress and the lobbyists.
January 7, 2009 at 8:49 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
guidedbystewart (anonymous) says...
Any comments from Sanford on an economic stimilus is laughable at best! Aren't we third in unemployment?
January 7, 2009 at 8:53 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
flinsc (anonymous) says...
Tides,
Where do we begin? We need to organize.
January 7, 2009 at 8:55 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Winker (anonymous) says...
This story is a joke, SC is going to be the last on any list to get federal aid. Why would the new administration give money to a state where the senator (Mrs. Lindsey Graham) flew around the country for 6 month talking s%&t about the new president and the govenor did the same thing.
You reep what you sew SC, it is going to be a long 8 years of 25% unemployment and no road work. Might want to consider voting Democrat in 2012.
January 7, 2009 at 8:59 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
firemike (anonymous) says...
The more I know about Mayor Riley the more I am amazed how he keeps getting elected. Is there no one in our area that can bet him? A lot of people joke about him being in office until he dies but could this really be Charleston's fate? I know of a truly great person who ran for city council (Temple) but he was defeated by a Riley guy. I still can't figure it out how it happened. He (Temple) knew local politics, was very educated (taught at MUSC), financially stable, and truly loved the City of Charleston. If someone like him can't even get on city council this city is really under the foot of Cotton Eye Joe.
January 7, 2009 at 9:02 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
B_Fwank (anonymous) says...
jimislander, I always get a kick out of your continual attack on the people of SC.
Keeping in mind that California had financial problems before GWB -
California (as liberal a state that exists on the west coast) has the 8th largest economy in the world, the sheeple of the socialist state of California, continually vote democrat at the federal and state level. Governor Schwarzenegger, is a RINO, in the truest of definitions.
Question why have they been going broke and are still going broke if they are so intellectually advanced. Based on
your idea that to vote democrat is the smart thing to do.
Democrats = higher fees, more regulations, radical enviromentalism, higher fuel costs and taxes...the 8th largest economy in the world and they are broke year after year. Amazing.
Using your thought process that SC is where it is because of the republicans and the "un-educated" voters that vote them in, you would think that the many states that constantly vote democrat would be flowing in cash to support all their welfare programs. But alas, they are just as bad off as SC.
I think your only reason to post here is to insult SC residents . Why live here? Is it because you welfare check goes further?
January 7, 2009 at 9:06 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
B_Fwank (anonymous) says...
Unemployment state by state
Rank State Rate
51 MICHIGAN 9.6
50 RHODE ISLAND 9.3
48 CALIFORNIA 8.4
48 SOUTH CAROLINA 8.4
47 OREGON 8.1
45 DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA 8
45 NEVADA 8
44 NORTH CAROLINA 7.9
43 GEORGIA 7.5
39 ALASKA 7.3
39 FLORIDA 7.3
http://money.cnn.com/pf/features/list...
January 7, 2009 at 9:11 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Oceanlover (anonymous) says...
Winker that would be true if Jim Clyburn wasn't the majority whip. I see a lot of political posturing in this thing w/Sanford. I'd like to see the whole list - in a prioritized fashion - before I rushed to judgement. Though upgrading the Johns Island airport so Tiger Woods can get to Kiawah more efficiently seems really stupid. I flew into that airport a couple of months ago, and it was EMPTY except for the pilots doing training in the airspace above.
January 7, 2009 at 9:15 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
majorjohnson (anonymous) says...
You know where the federal government gets the money to do crap like this? There are only 3 places they can get it. Print it, tax it, or borrow it.
Printing it creates inflation. That makes your money worth crap.
Taxing it takes it out of the local economy, that's money you could eat or hire workers with.
Borrow it means your children and grandchildren get to pay it back for you.
No matter how they get it, it passes through a huge bureaucracy that has to be paid for, then they spit a few pennies back on the dollar. If anyone believes this strategy will work give me $2000 and I'll hire you for 5 days to do busy work at $200 a day. Then you can brag about how much money you're making. Don't forget you have to pay taxes on your $200/day.
January 7, 2009 at 9:18 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
guidedbystewart (anonymous) says...
Fwank,
We are actually tied with California for third at 8.4 percent, also that was November's numbers.
http://www.bls.gov/web/laumstrk.htm
January 7, 2009 at 9:20 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
dawhetsell (anonymous) says...
" Economic stimilus is laughable at best!" this is the correct statement. All its going to do is destoy whats left of the dollar. Anyone who thinks you can spend your way out of debt is the greatest fool of them all. The goverment does not create real money through production. If the goverment spends money they must take it from someone who creates real money from production or they must print money to pay. Every dollar they print makes all the other dollars worth less. We have deflation now (prices going down), but soon when the rest of the world sees that the dollar is worth nothing we will be hit with inflation(prices going up because money is worth less). The goverment is going to have the last laugh when its broke and can't give you anymore money(welfare,food stamps, unemployment,free medical and ETC...)and you pay a million dollars for a loaf of bread. He who has the GOLD rules.
January 7, 2009 at 9:20 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
guidedbystewart (anonymous) says...
..never mind, I didn't read that you had them at the same percentage.
January 7, 2009 at 9:23 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
B_Fwank (anonymous) says...
#1 Ranking is "Smartest"
2006-2007 Smartest State Award
RANK 26 - South Carolina improved by 3 positions
RANK 47 - California improved by 2 positions
2005-2006 RANK
29 - South Carolina
49 - California
http://www.morganquitno.com/edrank.htm
January 7, 2009 at 9:35 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
icbmman (anonymous) says...
PRSISBEST sure looks like and sounds like the troll Bulldog01 as well as TP. The posts sure are awfully similar.
In this case, Sanford is on the money with his statements. If the federal government wasn't considering blowing more money through Obama's stimulus package with city projects, why did the conference even suggest cities to make their lists? They know that if they lobby Obama and a very liberal Congress, more government money will be merely printed to fund these pork projects.
Riley has become a completely inept mayor with fading ideas and no imagination. Also, he appears to be squandering the major budget that the city tabulates every year. There are PLENTY of downtown parks...why do we need to build more? Why not involve private investment with the Concord Park development? Why not sell city ghettos in Gadsden Green to private investments and use that extra money to accomodate the drainage system? Hell, why isn't the money for drainage already alloted?!
Riley's incompetence is multiplying as he gets older and stays in power. Hopefully, next mayoral election, a true leader with a bold vision for Chas can emerge and change this city for the better.
January 7, 2009 at 9:35 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
B_Fwank (anonymous) says...
Guided, my point is, SC is not as bad as some would like to make it out to be. I just think a lot of self-appointed elitist like to bash SC and its residents. It gets pretty childish and down right stupid.
January 7, 2009 at 9:39 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Mayor_McCheese (anonymous) says...
I'm simply amazed by the amount of ignorant rednecks in this forum. How do you people get internet access? Anyway, Charleston could really benefit from some of these stimulous package funds (in particular money for commuter rail project,526 extension and drainage.I will admit that investing in a private airport is a huge mis-allocation of funds but there are a lot of good projects that shouldn't be written of as "wasteful." Cutting everybody a check so people can buy a plasma TV or a jet ski isn't going to help us much in the long run.
January 7, 2009 at 10 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
icbmman (anonymous) says...
PRSISBEST, you are a complete troll.
I haven't been upset on here, and if you actually had some intelligence, you would see that my post is in favor of a conservative governor and against the liberal approach of more government spending.
If anybody throws insults around at people on this board, it's you.
January 7, 2009 at 10 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
GermanyXO (anonymous) says...
"These lists tend to multiply people's perception that there's free money out there. We are spending 95 cents to get a nickel. This is a ridiculously inefficient way of funding a local park," he said.
The Honorable Mark Sanford makes a strong point that illustrates Charleston's long-held attitude of entitlement that saturates city residents' perceptions. Also, the Honorable Joe Riley conveniently ignores the true impact of submitting these infrastructure projects for media attention. Bottom line up front: Riley should have consulted with Sanford before releasing the funding request list for media exposure.
Charleston and surrounding Lowcountry city leaders have a stellar history of offering businesses, real estate developers and residents alike, tax incentives that have cumulatively eaten away at our cities' abilities to adequately fund the maintenance and improvement of our public parks, transportation networks, storm water drainage, and wastewater management infrastructures. Riley's funding request list amounts to an appeal for federal welfare to fund these infrastructure projects. Riley has brought shame to Charleston, because before our Lowcountry cities beg for handouts from the federal government, our cities' businesses, developers, and residents should express a need and capacity to pay a majority of the costs. This ignorant attempt by Riley to market quick start projects as an economic stimulus solution runs contrary to old-age wisdom:
If you can't afford it, then you must save your money until you can. Or, in the case of Charleston and it's sister cities, if your businesses, developers, and residents aren't paying enough in taxes to fund these projects, then you must raise taxes across the board for each to pay his/her fair share.
"The city also cited the need for $60 million to improve drainage near the Crosstown Expressway, $6.5 million to boost the Concord Street Park project and $3 million for expansion at the executive airport on Johns Island."
Seriously, Riley, these projects sound like we're giving a bath to Charleston's richest residents! Sure . . . let's call it "improve drainage" when what you're truly asking for is a preventive measure to keep property values near the Crosstown Expressway from falling. On top of that, let's continue down our path of ignorance of the fact we built Charleston atop what our EPA would classify a wetland. Why not save for what you truly need to completely replace Charleston's drainage network?
"Charleston's list includes more than 150 projects tied to stormwater drainage, parks, public transportation, schools and other areas. Projects in the Charleston area would spark nearly 19,000 jobs, according to the city's list."
Anyone want to guess where developers will go to hire workers to fill these jobs? How much of that $60 million will be spent for lobbyists in Columbia pressing for a moratorium on processing illegal immigrants?
January 7, 2009 at 10:24 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Donna920 (anonymous) says...
The money could be better spent on better roads,improved education, housing and food assistance for those in need. The last thing we need to do is to cater to those who have plenty. It's time for a mayor who won't be so wasteful.
January 7, 2009 at 10:25 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
charleston1960 (anonymous) says...
If i did not have to pay taxes last year, I can get a stimulas check?
WOW, when I combine that with the government mortage assistance, welfare check and the gas cards...man this is sweet.
God Bless America!
January 7, 2009 at 10:40 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
UrGatorbait (anonymous) says...
The government hoodwinks the masses again. Temporary jobs local "talent" won't be able to keep after the money has gone. Public transportation? Buy us buses? Build a rail line? Buy everyone else new fuel efficient cars? Fill potholes? Widen roads? Put...wait...real drainage systems and not just ditches? Infrastructure is not a private airport. How many here have used it?
Use the money on education, not new shrines for the administrators and their neat electronic gadgets.
A billion dollars in Joe's mitts? The voters of Charleston are either dense as rocks or the influential are in on something lucrative. It's probably an unhealthy combination of both. He doesn't speak for me. He's not the be all and end all of the Tri-County area nor the state of SC.
If the little prig is worried about communicating his intentions, he should have consulted with the governor. Better yet, OB should have invited the governors to attend the conference also. What's being created is a split in power.
Screw Riley
January 7, 2009 at 10:49 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
allaneddie (anonymous) says...
If cities need money, have them tax their own citizens, businesses, and visitors and quit thinking that the people in Iowa should pay for things in SC.
January 7, 2009 at 10:59 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
yird (anonymous) says...
Posted by Winker;" You reep what you sew SC"
Hey winky, that was great, sort of like kasting your bread upon the waders.
When writing this( "This story is a joke, SC is going to be the last on any list to get federal aid.")did you ever consider where that "federal" aid originates?
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Posted by laurasmorris It never ceases to amaze me how Sanford does his knee jerk Libertarian thing without any regard to fact and so many of you just jump off the cliff with him without actually giving it any thought.
As for Sanford's suggestion that we just cut taxes again, I wonder what rock he's been under that he doesn't see we've been doing that nationally and in this state for the past eight years and it clearly has not helped the economy.
=========================================================
Some of your previous posts contain the same overbearing condescending flavor as this one as they explain to the rest of us, points that you apparently assume we otherwise would have difficulty perceiving.
I for one wonder what rock you and similarly fooled folks like yourself have been under for the past two years that you can't see what uncontrolled spending nationally and in this state is doing to the economy.
January 7, 2009 at 11:03 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
firemike (anonymous) says...
FLAT TAX! FLAT TAX! FLAT TAX! FLAT TAX! FLAT TAX! FLAT TAX! FLAT TAX! FLAT TAX! FLAT TAX! FLAT TAX! FLAT TAX! FLAT TAX! FLAT TAX! FLAT TAX! FLAT TAX! FLAT TAX! FLAT TAX! FLAT TAX! FLAT TAX! FLAT TAX! FLAT TAX! FLAT TAX! FLAT TAX! FLAT TAX! FLAT TAX! FLAT TAX! FLAT TAX! FLAT TAX! FLAT TAX! FLAT TAX! FLAT TAX! FLAT TAX! FLAT TAX! FLAT TAX! FLAT TAX! FLAT TAX! FLAT TAX! FLAT TAX! FLAT TAX! FLAT TAX! FLAT TAX! FLAT TAX! FLAT TAX! FLAT TAX! FLAT TAX! FLAT TAX! FLAT TAX! FLAT TAX! FLAT TAX! FLAT TAX! FLAT TAX! FLAT TAX! FLAT TAX! FLAT TAX! FLAT TAX! FLAT TAX! FLAT TAX! FLAT TAX! FLAT TAX! FLAT TAX! FLAT TAX! FLAT TAX! FLAT TAX! FLAT TAX! FLAT TAX! FLAT TAX! FLAT TAX! FLAT TAX! FLAT TAX! FLAT TAX! FLAT TAX! FLAT TAX! FLAT TAX! FLAT TAX! FLAT TAX! FLAT TAX! FLAT TAX! FLAT TAX! FLAT TAX! FLAT TAX! FLAT TAX! FLAT TAX! FLAT TAX! FLAT TAX! FLAT TAX! FLAT TAX! FLAT TAX! FLAT TAX! FLAT TAX! FLAT TAX! FLAT TAX! FLAT TAX! FLAT TAX! FLAT TAX! FLAT TAX! FLAT TAX!
January 7, 2009 at 11:15 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
firemike (anonymous) says...
Did I mention the flat tax idea?
January 7, 2009 at 11:16 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
yird (anonymous) says...
B_Fwank Notice also on http://www.morganquitno.com/edrank.htm
that we fared better than Delaware and Illinois, adopted homes of the dynamic duo heading to Washington.
That site must be part of Hilary's "vast right wing conspiracy". If I can find a right wing conspiracy recruiting office I'm going to join.
January 7, 2009 at 11:23 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
yird (anonymous) says...
firemike; have you ever considered a flat tax?
January 7, 2009 at 11:26 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
B_Fwank (anonymous) says...
Roger that Yird! Amazing isnt it? But than again, when you dont sit around and spew pure bs and hate for SC, and step back to look at facts and reality, you will see, SC is not that bad.
January 7, 2009 at 11:32 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
JF (anonymous) says...
Why didn't the mayor request more money to expand the aquarium?
January 7, 2009 at 11:35 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
yourmom (anonymous) says...
i hate gov sanford, how have we kept a govenor for so long that hates the people of south carolina. what a douche
January 7, 2009 at 11:45 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
littlehouse (anonymous) says...
Hurray, Gov Sanford! I am embarassed at all the CEOs and local governments holding their hands out in the federal welfare line. Have we lost our sense of shame?
January 7, 2009 at 11:50 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
yourmom (anonymous) says...
a stimulus check from the government would not even pay my electric bill but a job would, but that would be actually trying to fix the entire problem not just a part of it, how republican of him.
January 7, 2009 at 11:51 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
JF (anonymous) says...
Where is the request for beach renourishment of the beach in front of Wild Dunes? Save our putting greens!! We could also expand the golf tunnel at the city golf course with more amenities!
January 7, 2009 at 12:13 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
icbmman (anonymous) says...
Firemike, I assume you're referring to the fair tax proposal? I say that it is time to consider that option, especially since we're going to have to find a way to fund all of the pork projects that are coming.
January 7, 2009 at 12:15 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
bigwhip (anonymous) says...
Laura......you must be a Democrat. Your thoughts should be directed at our legislature. Sanford has limited power and to his credit he has been trying to send a message to this spend happy Columbia bunch. Shortfall anyone?????
January 7, 2009 at 12:30 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
charleston1960 (anonymous) says...
How did Sanford get elected? He got elected very much like this country elected a man with less than 2 years of true political and zero executive experience to be President.
Only in America can you smoke dope, burn the American Flag, toot a little something up your nose, have non-sexual sexual relations, dodge the draft, commit real estate fraud, hang around convicted felons, pal around with should have been convicted felons:.and still become the leader of the greatest country on the planet.
Once again: God Bless America
January 7, 2009 at 12:52 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
yird (anonymous) says...
Posted by yourmom on January 7, 2009 at 11:51 a.m. (Suggest removal)
a stimulus check from the government would not even pay my electric bill but a job would,
============================================================
Turning out some of the lights and shutting down the computer will reduce your electric bill.
I think Hardees is hiring, or if you can stretch your last can of beans for just 13 more days all your troubles wiil be over.
January 7, 2009 at 12:59 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
UrGatorbait (anonymous) says...
So mom tell us what is the 1 billion gonna do fer you? Get you a temporary min. wage job repairing roads? picking da weeds outta da cracks at the private airport or handing out kiddie snacks at the new playground? Long term common sense? How very entiltementish of you...If you think either party has a plan then ya best go get yer self 'nother cuppa kool-aid.
January 7, 2009 at 1:02 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
AFWally (anonymous) says...
Time to lock and load....take this Country back
January 7, 2009 at 1:19 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Whopper (anonymous) says...
Let's just call the dollar a penny if all this crap goes through. And when all the projects are completed, the workers will be so wealthy they can retire, right? Uncle Sam needs to dislodge his head from his butt, fix or build a few roads that are needed and leave the rest alone without raising taxes on anyone.
January 7, 2009 at 2:07 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
doiseeu2 (anonymous) says...
Just more proof as to why Gov. Sanford rightfully holds the title of "Worst Governor in the US"
Jobs! Who needs 'em!
January 7, 2009 at 2:32 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Missing_Home (anonymous) says...
I agree with Gov. Sanford on the issue of Federal dollars.
It's too bad more govs don't see it as he does.
This country needs to quit these "knee jerk" reactions to the economy, take it on the chin and move on.
These "knee jerk" bailouts will lead to our undoing.
January 7, 2009 at 2:37 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
AFWally (anonymous) says...
When the Communist Chinese demand payment of loans....that will be our undoing.
January 7, 2009 at 2:53 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
UrGatorbait (anonymous) says...
Yeah doiseeU, those minimum wages jobs are the norm here in SC and are completely classified as legit jobs by those that embrace mediocrity or something. Temporary jobs at min. wage, yeah, that's a solution. Throw money at it, print it, it'll work and keep my head buried in the sand...yeah that's the ticket.
January 7, 2009 at 3:20 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Uncas (anonymous) says...
Leave it to Riley to make an over reaching spectical of his "Wish List".
This proves what many have suspected for decades - he has long ago lost touch with reality and is absolutely insane.
January 7, 2009 at 3:31 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
flinsc (anonymous) says...
AFWally we need to get together, where can we all unite. It is time to turn the clock back to 1776.
January 7, 2009 at 3:38 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
AFWally (anonymous) says...
flinsc, you heard the slogan "got milk" it needs to be changed to "got ammo" :)
January 7, 2009 at 4:23 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
goodkarmasc (anonymous) says...
Does Gov Sanford not think that we South Carolina FEDERAL taxpayers are due some return for our money?!? Should out tax dollars all be spent on New England roads, parks and bridges while we here in the South fall on the sword for the sake of "conservatism"?
January 7, 2009 at 4:41 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
GermanyXO (anonymous) says...
goodkarmasc: Thanks to Gov Sanford, instead of having a crowd of unemployed SC residents protesting in front of his house, he'll have a crowd of unemployed SC residents throwing parties in his front yard, funded by the emergency unemployment loan he applied for from the federal government.
Money that should be directed to maintain our infrastructure has already been funneled into the pockets of our unemployed SC residents and keeping social (READ: Democratic) programs from insolvency. Charleston's brand of conservatism means keeping everyone in the same tax bracket and keeping unemployed residents as residents.
Vastly oversimplified, but do you see my point?
January 7, 2009 at 4:53 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
B_Fwank (anonymous) says...
Once again the troll getserious adds nothing, just his stupidity.
yird, you are correct, getserious wants attention. His behavior on these forums is classic attention getting behavior.
Yird, as you can see below, ignoring getserious may make things worse.
A sick and pathetic display of;
Seeking Attention
Every troll demands attention. Over 90% of misbehavior by trolls is for attention. Denying attention in such situations usually stops the misbehavior. If a poster is constantly having to cope with attention-getting behavior however, ignoring may not always be enough of a response. Being ignored may be the reason for the problem in the first place.
For trolls who require undue attention, the temptation for most posters is to scold, nag, or coax. When posters remember that the troll's goal is to get attention (any attention), it's easy to see that scolding or nagging only encourages more misbehavior. In a troll's mind, the attention from an angry poster is better than no attention at all.
For the troll seeking attention, use the two "I's" of discipline: Ignore the behavior when possible, giving the troll positive attention during pleasant times, or Isolate the troll by using "timeout" when the troll's behavior is too extreme to be ignored.
Getserious - go to your room, you are in timeout!
January 7, 2009 at 6:19 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
B_Fwank (anonymous) says...
icbmman, GetSerious is the former nutjob troll called TP, and donttasemebro, and 6 other sreen personas. he is in need of attention. A multi-personality whack-a-troll.
lmao - GetSerious - is a pathetic loser.
January 7, 2009 at 6:24 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
B_Fwank (anonymous) says...
getserious, you are a simple but pathetic sh!thead. Do you ever add anything of substance to a topic? Are you so childish that all you can do is post ignorant and weak ass insults?
I bet that you are the type of guy that sits in a bar and looks at all the people that enjoy themselves and wonder why you are such a loser.
Seeking Attention
Every troll demands attention. Over 90% of misbehavior by trolls is for attention. Denying attention in such situations usually stops the misbehavior. If a poster is constantly having to cope with attention-getting behavior however, ignoring may not always be enough of a response. Being ignored may be the reason for the problem in the first place.
For trolls who require undue attention, the temptation for most posters is to scold, nag, or coax. When posters remember that the troll's goal is to get attention (any attention), it's easy to see that scolding or nagging only encourages more misbehavior. In a troll's mind, the attention from an angry poster is better than no attention at all.
January 7, 2009 at 6:56 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
B_Fwank (anonymous) says...
you and your mom like BEEF_WANK, dont ya'll GetSerious? Have you found your daddy yet?
January 7, 2009 at 6:58 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
B_Fwank (anonymous) says...
Check any of my posts, agree or disagree, I add thought and substance to all my posts. On the other hand, your limited brain power can only add school yard insults and little boy bravado. Your a friggin wuss. A mommy boy wearing his sisters dress. What a waste.
getserious, TP, DTMB - An "Internet troll" or "Forum Troll" or "Message Board Troll" is a person who posts outrageous message to bait people to answer. Forum Troll delights in sowing discord on the forums. A troll is someone who inspires flaming rhetoric, someone who is purposely provoking and pulling people into flaming discussion. Flaming discussions usually end with name calling and a flame war.
Sometimes, Internet troll is trying to spin conflicting information, is questioning in an insincere manner, flaming discussion, insulting people, turning people against each other, harassing forum members, ignoring warnings from forum moderators.
Trolling is a form of harassment that can take over a discussion.
Without attention, Trolls are nothing. They have no audience, and no victim. To read the website, click here.
The mentality of a Troll is obvious - he wants a cheap laugh, and that is all. The offense that may be caused is of no concern to him, as are any other ramifications of his actions.
Trolls are a nuisance. They purposefully cause annoyance to other users, but their approach can, and does, vary. Some trolls are obvious, some are not. They're kids who aren't mature enough to have a sensible conversation.
Everyone of getserious posts are nothing more than troll crap!
January 7, 2009 at 7:19 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
B_Fwank (anonymous) says...
Facts and arguments are a waste of time for a troll like getserious.
main type of troll:
people who have the psychological need to feel good by making others feel bad. <---getserious
This is a sort of "psycho troll", whose deception involves deceiving themselves as well as others.
good bye you weak ass troll getserious! LMAO, you are indeed a Richard Cranium.
January 7, 2009 at 7:25 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
yird (anonymous) says...
Hey Frangee, wuz up wit u mon? Ignore the ignoramus. There's a new one come up out of the muck that calls itself PRSISBEST.
It's a totally dysfunctional, delusional, fruitcake but---appears to have some conservative values in spite of it's maniacal makeup.
It does contribute a smidgen of rationality in it's posts from time to time which can't be said about the other bozo.
Both claim to be well of financially, PRISPOT more so.
Maybe they could jointly host a friendly "Meet and Greet Your Fellow Posters Party" so we could all sit done and keep from killing each other over a cup of coffee.
That would be nice.
January 7, 2009 at 7:49 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
yird (anonymous) says...
sit down ooohh!! spelling police no ticky please.
January 7, 2009 at 7:51 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
yird (anonymous) says...
"I think it's pretty clear that the president-elect has said we're not going to have a stimulus package with earmarks,"
============================================================
The whole package is earmarks with the mayors filling the role normally reserved for lobbyists.
Tax, spend, tax, spend, tax, spend, till the very end!
What a total obamanation.
January 7, 2009 at 9:34 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
icbmman (anonymous) says...
Yird and B_Frank, I'm glad to see I'm not the only one seeing the demented behavior of these trolls that manage to lurk on this website. Doesn't the P&C have some sort of filter for these trolls' IP address so they can't re-register here with multiple personalities?
It is hard not to feed the trolls, but both of you are spot on with your analysis of their motives: it's all about getting attention. I also wonder about their age...the behavior appears to be high school or college student-ish..
January 7, 2009 at 9:56 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
yird (anonymous) says...
icbmman;Pre school mentality,the internet is their sandbox.
January 7, 2009 at 10:07 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
icbmman (anonymous) says...
Well said, Yird. Couldn't agree more.
January 8, 2009 at 6:52 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
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