Relief unlikely to come soon
Growing ranks of jobless might not see stimulus benefits for months
COLUMBIA — By this summer, 760,000 South Carolina workers and their families — more than the entire population of the Lowcountry — could be depending on unemployment benefits to pay bills.
The rolls of the unemployed are expected to swell months before the federal stimulus package infuses the state's economy with money and jobs, officials and estimates indicated Tuesday.
The Post and Courier
While Alicia Steele searches for work Tuesday at the Employment Security Commission, her 5-year-old, Porter, plays with a dollar bill he received in a Valentine from his great-grandparents. 'I just didn't think it would be this difficult,' said the single mother, who was laid off from her job in radio advertising.
The state is headed toward a projected 14 percent unemployment rate, and not all state lawmakers, laid-off workers and economists are confident that the roughly $3 billion earmarked for South Carolina in the pending federal stimulus plan will do anything to stop its immediate upward tick.
"We're in a serious situation," said Rep. B. R. Skelton, a Six Mile Republican and professor emeritus of economics at Clemson University.
Skelton said much is uncertain as the Legislature awaits details on the final version of the stimulus bill. Based on what he knows now, jobs that could be created to improve roads and bridges and waterlines, for example, could potentially help curb unemployment.
"Much of the rest of it is going to be too late, and it is not going to come in time to have any significant impact on employment, I do not believe," Skelton said.
Even the most vocal supporters of the stimulus plan, from President Barack Obama to Charleston Mayor Joe Riley, said the economy will likely get worse before it gets better, but they said the spending plan will help a recovery to start earlier.
"We've got to stop the downward spiral, get a floor established, and start building our way out of the recession," Riley said Tuesday at a press conference to support the stimulus bill outside the S.C. Employment Security Commission office in Charleston.
Find a job
Monster job search in Charleston from The Post and Courier and Charleston.net.
The state's unemployment rate is now 9.5 percent, the third-highest in the nation with 207,171 workers out of a job in December, the last month for which data is available. Factoring in the increase forecast by the state Board of Economic Advisors, the total unemployed and their families would amount to more people than live in Charleston, Berkeley and Dorchester counties.
Richard Sontheimer of Columbia was laid off Jan. 27 from his job as a customer service representative, and he said he would love to trade in his unemployment checks for work. He is hopeful the president was right when he told the nation Monday night that the stimulus bill would generate as many as 4 million jobs.
"Tell him to put my name on the list," Sontheimer said.
John Armstrong of Columbia is less hopeful about the stimulus plan's saving grace. He was laid off three months ago from his job as supervisor at a polymer plant in Dixiana.
"Everyone can't put a hard hat on and go build bridges," Armstrong said. "I don't know how that's going to help our state economy or the unemployment rates around here."
State Democratic Party Chairwoman Carol Fowler said the stimulus plan will create private-sector jobs in more than the construction industry. Once those newly hired wage earners start going out to eat and shopping again, even more jobs will become available in restaurants and stores.
Fowler also noted that Obama and the Congress specifically asked the states to prepare details on "shovel-ready" jobs, which are ready to go but awaiting funding.
Riley offered several examples Tuesday of plans that could be ready for groundbreaking in Charleston in 90 to 120 days. They were: Construction of a new city gym in the West Side neighborhood, which has been put out for bid contingent on federal stimulus money; the massive, $130 million Spring-Fishburne drainage improvement project to reduce downtown flooding; and plans to modify one of the Ashley River bridges to allow bike and pedestrian crossings.
"The stimulus effect of construction projects is quite substantial," said Riley, who planned to fly to Washington today to advocate for the bill's final passage.
The stimulus bill also includes millions of dollars for South Carolina to be used for unemployment benefits and health care for laid-off workers, food stamps, state government programs and job training — money that would flow in over an extended period of time.
U.S. House Majority Whip Jim Clyburn, D-S.C., acknowledged that the stimulus package will need time to work.
"No matter the final version of the recovery package, we will not see an immediate drop in the unemployment rate in South Carolina," he said. "I join the president in asking people to be patient. It took a significant amount of time for our economic crisis to develop, and it will take time for us to turn the economy around."
Alicia Steele, a single mother from Mount Pleasant, was laid off recently from her job in radio advertising and searched for work Tuesday at the Employment Security Commission's Charleston office.
"I just didn't think it would be this difficult," Steele said.
Where to find help
As unemployment numbers grow, so do the lines at social service offices providing everything from grocery cards to relief from the electric bill. Here's a breakdown of what's available when work isn't.
Q: Where do I apply for unemployment benefits?
A: Charleston Workforce Center
176 Lockwood Blvd.
Charleston, SC 29403
953-8400
Moncks Corner Workforce Center
107 E. Main St.
Moncks Corner, SC 29461
761-8514
Summerville Workforce Center
2885 W. 5th St.
Summerville, SC 29484
821-0695
Q: How long will it take to start receiving unemployment benefits?
A: If you are laid off through no fault of your own, you should receive benefits within about two weeks, according to Wendy Courson, area director of the Summerville Workforce Center.
Q: What's the most I can collect in unemployment benefits?
A: You could qualify for as much as $326 per week in South Carolina. The average check totals about $240 a week.
Q: If I find part-time work, can I still collect unemployment benefits?
A: A person collecting unemployment benefits may earn up to 25 percent of the weekly benefit amount without facing a deduction, Courson said. After that, the person will receive a dollar-for-dollar deduction.
Q: How long can I receive unemployment benefits?
A: The state provides unemployment benefits for 26 weeks, but current federal extensions that apply in South Carolina will continue the checks for another 20 weeks.
Q: Where, outside of the Workforce Centers, can I find financial help?
A: Courson said her office sends its clients to the state Department of Social Services offices for the Electronic Benefits Transfer (EBT) program, which provides debit cards for food purchases, and to the Charleston County Human Services Commission, which pays bills for people with limited income.
Q: How do I get an EBT card?
A: You can visit the DSS Web site for application forms. Or, in case of emergency, you can visit a DSS office:
Charleston County DSS
3366 Rivers Ave.
North Charleston, SC 29405
Berkeley County DSS
2 Belt Drive
Moncks Corner, SC 23461
Dorchester County DSS
201 Johnston St.
St. George, SC 29477
While there, inquire about Temporary Assistance for Needy Families, according to DSS spokeswoman Marilyn Matheus.
"Go early in the morning," she said. "We can only take so many applicants per day."
Q: What bills can the Charleston County Human Services Commission help with?
A: Rent or mortgage and water and energy bills.
Q: How do I qualify for help with my energy bill?
A: You cannot earn more than $1,300 per month in gross income (that's before taxes and other deductions). For each additional person in the household, add $450. The Human Services Commission will not cover any expenses outside the utility bill, such as meter tampering fines or returned check fees.
Q: How do I qualify for help with my rent/mortgage or water bill?
A: You cannot earn more than $1,083 per month in gross income. For each additional person in the household, add $375.
Q: How do I get Human Services Commission assistance?
A: First, you must have an appointment.
Charleston County residents: 724-6760 or 723-9285.
Berkeley County residents: 761-6935.
Dorchester County residents: 875-1168 or 832-7053 in Summerville and 563-9524, extension 305, in St. George.
At last count, the Human Services Commission received 1,300 calls in a single week, according to outreach director Tami McCrackin.
"That's just last week," she said. "And that's every week."
Wade Spees and David Slade contributed to this report. Reach Yvonne Wenger at 803-799-9051 or ywenger@postandcourier.com.
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Comments
eyecantspel (anonymous) says...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear_mongering
I must say, these "shovel ready" projects all seem like they will employ mostly Mexicans and some civil p.e.
Are all these car dealers, GM union guys, and banksters all going to start laying pavement? I'll pay to watch that.
The answer is, I'm sure, is no.
February 11, 2009 at 3:06 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
ballachulish (anonymous) says...
eye,
Hunger can be a great motivator, we may see some white collar workers getting a few caluses.
I think the intent of the "shovel ready" jobs is in getting wages to the unemployed, who in turn will buy cars, get loans, etc.
February 11, 2009 at 3:32 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
spengler (anonymous) says...
Where's the hope and change? democrats don't pay taxes. They have LOTS of money! Obot promised me a mortgage and a full gas tank. i'm still waiting. obot will not take my calls, either. impeach obot!
February 11, 2009 at 5:40 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
lowcountrydawg (anonymous) says...
"Hope and change" sure sounds like "doom and gloom" in the first 3 weeks!
February 11, 2009 at 6:26 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
justmyview (anonymous) says...
Governor Sanford and the state republican leadership are strongly opposed to the stimulus so perhaps we should reject the money. It appears that most of the readers of this paper hail Sanford as a great conservative leader. Sanford spends a lot of time on TV currently bashing congress and President Obama for their fiscal policies, no doubt this is also his strategy for setting ups his presidential run for 2012. But I think all citizens of South Carolina really need to look scrutinize the governor's leadership over the past few years. There are numerous postings in this forum bashing President Obama and Democrats and nothing but praise for Senator Demint and Sanford for being good conservatives. Our state is slipping further behind in education and unemployment will soon reach double digits. Perhaps Governor Sanford should spend less time on TV and more time with the Republican leadership in Columbia trying to figure out how to move South Carolina forward.
February 11, 2009 at 6:36 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
scottmcx (anonymous) says...
O-peckerwood is clearly a liar. He appoints a Tax cheat Treasury Secretary and Lobbyist in the Cabinet are two examples. Third, changed his against offshore drilling position. He was against offshore drilling but when the prices went up he supported it. Yesterday they announced they're against it again. "I was against it, before I was for it, before I was against it".
Sanford should refuse the Pork-ulus, declare a 300 mile offshore limit, drill for oil and gas and sell it to the US eco-nazis next time the Arabs jerk the chain. SC could become like Kuwait. We can put all the unemployed to work in the energy business.
With all this borrowed cash floating around, this is going to be the most criminal administration since U.S. Grant's. These crooks are going to steal a huge percentage of it.
February 11, 2009 at 7:40 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
palmettotree (anonymous) says...
I praise DeMint. He knows that the stimulus bill will kill all of us. I heard on Hannity that we will not even be able to afford to pay the interest. Where is all of the money coming from to pay the interest? Out of Obama's pocket, nope from ours. I for one don't want the stimulus package. I also heard this one lady say after Obamas speech in IN that she won't have to worry about putting gas in her car, food on her table nor worry about paying her mortgage. Obama the messiah will take care of her. That is one sample of the people who voted for him. they believed all of his lies. He can't do that not in reality. Where is that money coming from? Again you and I. I don't want to give my hard earned money to someone who does not want to work. Someone who spreads her legs so she can have kids to keep the welfare coming in. (yeah, this really does happen). Sorry for being blunt but that is just the way I see things.
Sanford and DeMint deserve the praise because they know what is at stake. Our future is at stake and these so called green jobs that Obama wants won't help out the regular joe. Obama has and will continue to screw up and I can sit back and say "I never voted for him".
I can't wait for 2012 so we can get this bungler out of office.
Before you say anything, I didn't like Pres. Bush's stimulus plan either. But being a regular I did not have any say in it at all, just like with the current president.
February 11, 2009 at 7:40 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Valkyrie (anonymous) says...
Thank God for DeMint and Sanford, standing against this pork-ing-us bill.
All this bill is going to do is enslave even more lemmings to the nanny state.
the traitors;
RINOs
Snowe
Specter
Collins
This Obama economy is a disaster! 3 weeks of complete and utter failure.
Good news is, we have O'Biden to laugh at.
February 11, 2009 at 8:04 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
crankyyankee (anonymous) says...
CHANGE! You wanted it you got it. Freebees for all!
February 11, 2009 at 8:06 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
geekboy (anonymous) says...
Change is a comin' alright...
(I had to do some serious snipping to get it under 3000 characters, follow the link for the entire article.)
******************************************
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pi...
Tragically, no one from either party is objecting to the health provisions slipped in without discussion. These provisions reflect the handiwork of Tom Daschle, until recently the nominee to head the Health and Human Services Department.
Senators should read these provisions and vote against them because they are dangerous to your health. (Page numbers refer to H.R. 1 EH, pdf version).
But the bill goes further. One new bureaucracy, the National Coordinator of Health Information Technology, will monitor treatments to make sure your doctor is doing what the federal government deems appropriate and cost effective. The goal is to reduce costs and "guide" your doctor's decisions (442, 446). These provisions in the stimulus bill are virtually identical to what Daschle prescribed in his 2008 book, "Critical: What We Can Do About the Health-Care Crisis." According to Daschle, doctors have to give up autonomy and "learn to operate less like solo practitioners."
Hospitals and doctors that are not "meaningful users" of the new system will face penalties. "Meaningful user" isn't defined in the bill. That will be left to the HHS secretary, who will be empowered to impose "more stringent measures of meaningful use over time" (511, 518, 540-541)
The stimulus bill does that, and calls it the Federal Coordinating Council for Comparative Effectiveness Research (190-192). The goal, Daschle's book explained, is to slow the development and use of new medications and technologies because they are driving up costs. He praises Europeans for being more willing to accept "hopeless diagnoses" and "forgo experimental treatments," and he chastises Americans for expecting too much from the health-care system.
Elderly Hardest Hit
Daschle says health-care reform "will not be pain free." Seniors should be more accepting of the conditions that come with age instead of treating them. That means the elderly will bear the brunt.
February 11, 2009 at 8:10 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Valkyrie (anonymous) says...
geekboy - yes, I posted that yesterday morning on another article. I added a kicker though;
***"He praises Europeans for being more willing to accept "hopeless diagnoses" ...chastises Americans for expecting too much from the health-care system. Elderly Hardest Hit
Daschle says health-care reform "will not be pain free." Seniors should be more accepting of the conditions that come with age instead of treating them."
Of course This thinking is nothing new;
When the war began in 1939, Hitler ordered his program of mass murder begun. The initial killings were to take place at several sanatoria including Brandenburg, Sonnenstein, Hartheim, and the infamous Hadamar.
Two favorites were phrases applied to the mentally disabled - these creatures were "life unworthy of life" and "useless eaters." The government program established to dispatch these "useless eaters" was dubbed Operation T4.
http://www.charleston.net/news/2009/f...
The sheeple rejoice!
February 11, 2009 at 8:18 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
justmyview (anonymous) says...
Who deserves the credit for South Carolina's "stellar" economic and public education status? We have a much closer economic disaster in South Carolina which I do not think can be attributed to President Obama or Joe Biden.
February 11, 2009 at 8:20 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
a_set_love (anonymous) says...
Post & Courier, when are you going to report in depth on the dangerous things the Liberal Socialist Democrats have inserted into this Bill.
Making a statement like ..... "The rolls of the unemployed are expected to swell months before the federal stimulus package infuses the state's economy with money and jobs, officials and estimates indicated Tuesday." .... does nothing but induce fear.
Are you trying to promote this Communist manifesto President "0" calls a recovery plan, or provide "TRUE" facts uncovered by investigation?
February 11, 2009 at 8:21 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
rednose (anonymous) says...
well,back to the plantation
February 11, 2009 at 8:24 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
palmettotree (anonymous) says...
Daschle says health-care reform "will not be pain free." Seniors should be more accepting of the conditions that come with age instead of treating them."
I had never heard of the above statement and it floored me! I read to say that Daschle thinks that instead of being treated for a disease or a cold (which can turn into pneumonia) he just wants our seniors to just wither up and die? The seniors have the knowledge that the young people don't have and he just wants it to all disappear? That is like telling my parents to just go away. He is crazy.
Why doesn't he just stops healthcare for all since we all will eventually die anyways. Does he not realize that people who smoke (me) and the overweight people have just as many doctor visits.
He is stupid.
February 11, 2009 at 8:28 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
BillytheKid (anonymous) says...
We have no leadership in Columbia, none. I wish we could hold an election today and replace them, Sanford for his "we have to cut taxes" story that he has spun into If we would have we would be at a better place and McConnell and friends to be so nearsighted to go to Washington and promote a new coal plant and want the air quality regulations reduced so they can build it.
South Carolina needs a sound plan to go forward and I have not heard anything out of Columbia that gives me any hint that they know what to do, the live in the past and for their own future, not ours.
February 11, 2009 at 8:31 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
AFWally (anonymous) says...
"Peckerwood" LOL, haven't heard that one in awhile.
February 11, 2009 at 8:45 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
ironhorse (anonymous) says...
Poor kid, the P&C just HAD to post that photo!
Someone tell Porter to file taxes on that dollar before he goes to jail, or worse, gets nominated by B. Hussein Obama for a cabinet post.
February 11, 2009 at 9:05 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
geekboy (anonymous) says...
Posted by palmettotree on February 11, 2009 at 8:28 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Daschle says health-care reform "will not be pain free." Seniors should be more accepting of the conditions that come with age instead of treating them."
I had never heard of the above statement and it floored me! I read to say that Daschle thinks that instead of being treated for a disease or a cold (which can turn into pneumonia) he just wants our seniors to just wither up and die? The seniors have the knowledge that the young people don't have and he just wants it to all disappear? That is like telling my parents to just go away.
**************************************************
You read it correctly. They are saying that they will decide if your life is worth saving... if the ROI on your life isn't good enough, too bad, go home and die, even though a treatment may be available.
This is yet another reason why Pelosi and Reid's craptacular stimulus bill should have been gone over with a fine tooth comb instead of being ramrodded through as quickly as possible.
What should really make your blood boil is that none of the scum who authored this bill will ever be required to abide by it, because they get free health care for life once they join the ranks of the other political scumbags in Washington.
February 11, 2009 at 9:06 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Valkyrie (anonymous) says...
But you can fight back right now. By signing the petition, you can join the thousands of Americans who are saying NO!
NO to more taxpayer-funded bailouts and giveaways to special interests!
NO to using economic hardship as an excuse for Big Government power grabs!
NO to heaving trillions of dollars in new debt on the backs of our children and grandchildren!
NO to this no-stimulus scam!
http://nostimulus.com/
February 11, 2009 at 9:08 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
AFWally (anonymous) says...
We said no to the bank bailout....we said no to the auto bailout, they did it anyway, so what changed? This stimulus won't do sheet either....it will just tack on more debt. They'll print more play money and come up with another scam after this stimulus fails. Washington is all about stealing and deception it makes no difference whether it's Dem's or Repub's....thieves, crooks and liars are always in bed together.....that Dem Repub thing is just a little game they use to play with our heads...it's called psyops and it's working.
February 11, 2009 at 9:22 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
crankyyankee (anonymous) says...
I don't know which is more irresponsible the unwed women in California with the fourteen pups or the Democratic Party. The Dems and their followers are like voltures circling a carcus(that would be the taxpayers). Ever notice how folks that don't pay taxes are always for spending! We've come to the point in time when there are more "I wants" than "I earns" and the I wants are winning!
February 11, 2009 at 9:38 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
dawhetsell (anonymous) says...
They need to give every US citizen a credit card with no limit. That way we can help as good citizens. The idiots in Washington are giving big business bailout money and saying we can spend our way out of the debt problems we have. No one would pay their bills anyway,that is why we have this problem now. EASY CREDIT, LIER LOANS, NO DOWN PAYMENT and #1" we will loan you 125% of the value of your home". All the factories are in China and other contries. WHAT JOBS TO GO BACK TOO ?
February 11, 2009 at 9:42 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Ethan57 (anonymous) says...
Let's see...760,000 unemployed in SC, 4 million jobs created divided by 50 states. Seems like a plan....NOT!! I do have to defend Obama on one thing. At least he's trying and it's only been three weeks. Come on people, you can't even become a good bartender in 3 weeks.
February 11, 2009 at 9:51 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
crankyyankee (anonymous) says...
The only denial that's going on is the fact the the Dems refuse to acknowledge they can't pay the bills now, let alone two trillion from now! They are denying that the bill will ever come due like the very people screaming we've got to spend, spend, spend and quick! Nobody has given a thought as to if or how this will be paid back. I think we have solved the Social Securty issue. No one will be able to retire under Democratic leadership (or lack of).
February 11, 2009 at 10:08 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Get_seriousHELP (anonymous) says...
Actually, it is 40 + years of a liberal agenda that have given us obesity, out of control STD's, a failed education system and high crime rates.
February 11, 2009 at 10:09 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
coolfreaknbeans (anonymous) says...
A lot of these people don't really want jobs. They come out better collecting unemployment than getting a job at Walmart or in fast food. For example, someone with a small child could collect $326 per week. Well when you're not working and were previously paying for child care (at about $100 or more per week), gas to get to work, lunch (unless you packed one before) The $326 is really like making roughly $451.00 per week. Trust me I'm not saying unemployment is joyous, but its not a bad situation for some. Not to mention the people on it that work under the table while on it. (like babysitting, housekeeping,etc)
February 11, 2009 at 10:12 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
yird (anonymous) says...
Stupid democrats! Everyday the lunacy emanating from the pie holes of democrat pork salesman becomes more ludicrous.
State Democratic Party Chairwoman Carol Fowler said the stimulus plan will create private-sector jobs in more than the construction industry. Once those newly hired wage earners start going out to eat and shopping again, even more jobs will become available in restaurants and stores.
---------------------------------------------------------
When Jesus and Raphael send half their taxpayer funded, construction job pay check back to Mexico and enjoy their multifamily meals at home, you fools that voted for change will be getting just what your ignorance has earned you.
Riley's talking up a new gym plus bike crossings on Ashley River bridges.
Now there's some real sensible projects to tax our grandchildren for. Maybe Riley' envisions a country like communist china where the bicycle has been the predominant mode of transportation, in which case our grandchildren will have in place a road system designed to be used by muscle powered vehicles.
Soon, none of us will be able to afford fuel because idiot democrats are still stuck in "global warming " mode which stifles our ability to exploit our own resources.
So using democratic thinking processes, one could say; high fuel cost good, people ride bicycles, get exercise, lower nationwide obesity problem, reduce the planet's fever that Al Gorp has warned us about. Rickshaw anyone?
I can hardly wait to hear that Iran is really our friend!
The American people didn't know it because they were kept in the dark by 8 YEARS OF BUSH. Really?
Democrats from the top down keep serving up big helpings of bovine scat but that's a menu for consumption by democrats only.
February 11, 2009 at 10:23 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
JD_Simms (anonymous) says...
While most economists agree that we need to stimulate the demand side of the equation, views differ on how to do it efficiently. I studied economics under one of the original architects of Ronald Regan's supply side economics policies, and I would bet even he would agree with this. The idea behind supply side economics is that it is more efficient (i.e., more bang for the buck) to stimulate the supply side of the equation via fiscal (i.e., tax) policy. However, these are unusual times and I would think even the most ardent supply-sider would agree that a demand side triage is in order.
However, we may have already slipped past the point where projects in the current Stimulus Plan can help much. One only needs to look at the failed attempt to stimulate the credit markets with the first half of the bank bailout as an indicator.
One area some economists see as being inefficient (although it doesn't get much press) is the emphasis in the current version of the stimulus bill on infrastructure projects. I think primarily because WPA projects appeared to help dig us out of the Great Depression, current policy makers have latched onto public works projects as solution ingredient.
The trouble with this is that the worker matrix in this country is entirely different now. A significant number of laborers in the construction trades today are from outside the U.S. The simple facts are that that in spite of recent efforts to crack down on illegal immigration, a significant percentage of laborers in the construction industry are here illegally.
With a demand side stimulus, your largest increase in demand normally comes from those on the lower end of the pay scale such as construction laborers. However, if workers send as much of that money back home as they can instead of spending it here, you lose a great deal of efficiency. This means that while stimulating construction will still have a positive impact, it will be much less effective than it was in the 1930's.
Given how rapidly the economy is deteriorating, it would seem that we need to find a much more efficient and much quicker way to stimulate the demand side. It might be time to revive the idea of simply doing another tax rebate; only this time, it should be significantly larger than the last. One advantage to doing this is that it reduces the additional debt we will need to incur.
Folks, we as a nation are in it deep. South Carolina is in it especially deep. The sad thing is, just about the time the nation starts to move out of this mess, South Carolina will have other large bills start becoming due. I'm specifically talking about the huge unfunded liability South Carolina is legally bound to pay to its retired workers. The current governor has appealed for years to the legislature to pay attention to this problem, but his pleas have fallen on deaf ears.
I think we all best lower our expectations for our economic future because there is no easy fix.
February 11, 2009 at 10:51 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
yird (anonymous) says...
Posted by JD_Simms, Great Post!
February 11, 2009 at 11:20 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
guidedbystewart (anonymous) says...
Great post JD_Simms,
But to many of the rest of you::.
The absurdities of these posts are becoming more insane every day. I have not posted in the last couple of days because I have been busy making sure that I don't lose my job, yet some people have nothing better to do than live on the government (yes, receiving veterans benefits whether it is disability or whatever is still living off the government (I am not saying these benefits are not warranted, yet if you can post on here maybe you also have the ability to work?), ironically these are the same people that complain about any government program that does not benefit them directly) allowing them the time to come on here and spin every development as if it is one political sides fault over the others. Many of you have a short sided, warped view of economics, yet come on here and post like you are some kind of expert, what a farce! Politics and economics are not a perfect science and they are many problems with both, so there is no perfect solution, quick fix and last, one solutions might fix one problem may cause another problem in the process. Again, many of you have your ideologies so far up your backsides, that thinking clearly or pragmatically somehow gets thrown out the window. I believe that something got to be done, yet if it is not done correctly, an economic stimulus could cause more problems than it solves.
February 11, 2009 at 11:40 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Thefutureisnow (anonymous) says...
This is a SCARY idea. Very SCARY!
February 11, 2009 at 11:41 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
UrGatorbait (anonymous) says...
The responses on here indicate why we are in the mess the country finds it self in. One side pointing fingers at each other trying to prove they are right and the other is wrong.
This country needs to crash and crash hard to hopefully jar us into a woken up state.
Everyone on here is subject to losing their job. I don't think any of the tough talking "pragmatic" GOP All-American cheerleaders would turn down a stimulus check. Hardly. They talk tough and bark loud but that's all they'll ever be.
The other side is realizing Ob isn't going to rescue them and are rationalizing it all away.
At least this state will be towards the top in one category..yeehaw
February 11, 2009 at 12:01 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
AFWally (anonymous) says...
Ah yes economics it is.....fine gubmint economics.....like buying in bulk $350 dollar hammers, $900 toilet seats, $50 "special" nut and bolt sets, upgrading military bases and then closing them, economics by the book..... Uncle Sugar serving America with pride.
February 11, 2009 at 12:18 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
CompostandWourier (anonymous) says...
Margaret Thatcher once said and it is so true today...
"Socialism will fail when Socialists run out of other peoples money"
If you pay taxes then the "other peoples money" is yours. If you don't pay taxes then you are probably in favor of this stimulus program.
I would be happy if South Carolina said no to any porkulus money as long as our citizens get a huge tax break and a promise we will not be held liable for these socialist programs.
February 11, 2009 at 12:32 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
slowcountry (anonymous) says...
don't worry Justmyview, if you hang around these forums for a few minutes, someone will manage to come up with a conspiracy theory that links all of our problems back to Obama. They will then copy & paste, copy & paste...It is pretty funny though, my co-workers and I like to check up on them during our breaks sometimes and laugh at their insight. I actually have a few specific people in mind but don't want to discourage them from posting by naming them. After all, we would miss the entertainment they provide!
February 11, 2009 at 12:55 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
theronce (anonymous) says...
Unfortunately, while better than the dems, the state does not have much in the way of leadership outside of the DeMint and the gov, and their voices are lost in the wind. To really start to fix things in this state, we need to stop taking all federal money with its strings and do things differently. Taking their new money and continuing to dance to that same tune will not make us better in anything, other than filling today's belly.
February 11, 2009 at 1:09 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
a_set_love (anonymous) says...
Speaker of the house, Nancy Pelosi has put in the massive stimulus spending bill $30 million for wetlands conservation in her San Francisco Bay area district. This is the home of the salt marsh harvest mouse which she has previously championed.
Of course she was torn between supporting 854 homeless, out of work Americans with $35,000 or the salt marsh harvest mouse........screw the people the mouse was more important.
February 11, 2009 at 2:03 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
a_set_love (anonymous) says...
Thats $35,000 per each family.
February 11, 2009 at 2:05 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
geekboy (anonymous) says...
It must be nice knowing that so many people think you're doing a p*ss-poor job:
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Voters strongly agree with the perspective that "No matter how bad things are, Congress can always find a way to make them worse." Fifty-eight percent (58%) share that view, and only 26% disagree.
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67% Say They Could Do A Better Job On The Economy Than Congress
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58% Say Most Congress Members Won't Know Stimulus Plan When They Vote On It
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http://www.rasmussenreports.com/
February 11, 2009 at 3:06 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
greyman (anonymous) says...
Don't worry Obama will fix everything. Its all gona change right......right
um yeah well maybe not
Next time people should vote not based on the color of someones skin, and b/c they didn't like bush.
February 11, 2009 at 4:20 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
charlestt (anonymous) says...
We are so scr**ed.
February 11, 2009 at 5:37 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
awwhite1134 (anonymous) says...
i thank the post and courrier for providing info at the bottom people need answers not trash talk and rhetoric
February 11, 2009 at 5:52 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Akhenaton06 (anonymous) says...
All of these comments are funny. SC has been controlled by Lowcountry interests for YEARS...like, since its founding. Yet you guys keep putting people like Glenn McConnell in office every year. Charleston sure is pretty, but the state would be MUCH better off without its politicians.
February 11, 2009 at 5:58 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Valkyrie (anonymous) says...
The Obama/Oprah show - this is pathetic. This is what Anerica is coming to, a bunch of whinning, woe is me losers, that expect the Messiah obama to save them.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-88Il-...
But look who helped her out;
But it wasn't just officials reaching out.
Chene Thompson -- the wife of state Rep. Nicholas Thompson, R-Fort Myers -- offered Hughes and her son a house in nearby La Belle rent-free, according to a spokeswoman, and she is interested in taking it.
"Basically, I offered Ms. Hughes and her son the opportunity to stay in my home rent-free for as long as they need to," Thompson told WBBH-TV in Fort Myers. "I'm not a millionaire, I'm not rich, but this is what I can do for someone if they need it."
Next -
What a pathetic loser, I though I heard Obama say "its gotta be a man"
Obama Answers Student at Fort Myers Town Hall Meeting
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01MNZB...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pp2PbO...
America, from the land of the free and home of the brave to - America, land of the hands out, palms up to the home of the nanny state leaches.
February 11, 2009 at 6:36 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Rush_is_Right (anonymous) says...
Story #3: No Stimulus: Chicago Liberals Turn Down Wal-Mart
Deal Or No Deal? New Big Box Jobs For Chicago
Big news in bad times: A major retailer wants to bring thousands of jobs to Chicago. But Wal-Mart's offer is running into the same roadblocks it hit several years ago. CBS 2 Chief Correspondent Jay Levine is asking whether it's a gift from heaven or a deal with the devil.
You'd think the city would be begging people like Wal-Mart to bring jobs to Chicago. Not putting up barriers. Well, think again.
Story #4: Reporter Goes Undercover as Wal-Mart Associate
"Some people, usually community activists, loath Wal-Mart. Others, like the family of four struggling to make ends meet, are in love with the chain. I, meanwhile, am in awe of it. With more than 7,000 facilities worldwide, coordinating more than 2 million employees in its fanatical mission to maintain an inventory from more than 60,000 American suppliers, it has become a system containing more components than the Space Shuttle - yet it runs as reliably as a Timex watch.
http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/dail...
February 11, 2009 at 6:51 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Valkyrie (anonymous) says...
Q: What are some of the tax breaks in the bill?
A: It includes Obama's signature "Making Work Pay" tax credit for 95 percent of workers, though negotiators agreed to trim the credit to $400 a year instead of $500 - or $800 for married couples, cut from Obama's original proposal of $1,000. It would begin showing up in most workers' paychecks in June as an extra $13 a week in take-home pay, falling to about $8 a week next January.
February 11, 2009 at 7 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Valkyrie (anonymous) says...
"Until the 1930s, the Constitution served as a major constraint on federal economic interventionism. The government's powers were understood to be just as the framers intended: few and explicitly enumerated in our founding document and its amendments. Search the Constitution as long as you like, and you will find no specific authority conveyed for the government to spend money on global-warming research, urban mass transit, food stamps, unemployment insurance, Medicaid, or countless other items in the stimulus package and, even without it, in the regular federal budget." Independent Institute senior fellow Dr. Robert Higgs
"Americans have long ago abandoned respect for the constitutional limitations placed on the federal government. Our elected representatives represent that disrespect." economist Walter E. Williams in a worthwhile read
Obama's Stimulus Scam
February 10, 2009 - 12:00 ET
Meltdown
By Thomas E Woods Jr
Most of us have probably heard just about all the arguments we can take in favor of the so-called stimulus package Barack Obama urges upon us. They boil down to this: if the government seizes resources from individuals (whether by direct taxation, borrowing, or inflation) and devotes them to arbitrary projects, we will prosper.
Japan has been through countless "stimulus" packages over the past 18 years, none of which has accomplished a thing apart from driving that country deeply into debt. And after years and years of government attempts to give artificial stimulus to the stock market and the real estate sector, the Japanese stock market is now about where it was in the mid-1980s, and real estate is selling, on average, for the same prices it was in 1975.
February 11, 2009 at 7:33 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Valkyrie (anonymous) says...
The same is true of the American economy of the 1930s, the decade in which President Franklin D. Roosevelt was supposedly lifting the country out of the Great Depression. Far from restoring prosperity, Roosevelt did everything he could to interfere with the economy's adjustment from depression to health. Thus instead of letting prices and wages move freely so the economy could reallocate resources rationally, he kept wages artificially high (and workers artificially unemployable) and propped up consumer prices.
More pertinent to our situation, FDR's make-work programs dwarfed even Herbert Hoover's public-works spending, which had allocated more funds for that purpose in four years than had been spent in the previous 20. Billions of dollars later, what FDR had succeeded in doing was to divert resources from a private sector starved for capital, and thereby weaken the forces of recovery. When genuine wealth generators have to compete with government for labor and resources, the productive sector is weakened at the hands of the parasitic sector.
>From 1933 to 1940, the unemployment rate averaged 18 percent. As the 1930s ended, FDR's Treasury secretary, Henry Morgenthau, wrote in his diary: "We have tried spending money. We are spending more than we have ever spent before and it does not work:. We have never made good on our promises:. I say after eight years of this Administration we have just as much unemployment as when we started:and an enormous debt to boot!"
What a perfect summary of the stimulus scam: it doesn't deliver what it promises, and it saddles the people with more debt. You'd think we would have learned this simple lesson, but instead our children have been taught that FDR - as big an economic ignoramus as has ever occupied the White House - was a genius who saved the American economy. The economic and historical research debunking this view is all over the professional journals, but the New York Times professes to be horrified to learn that dissent exists over the legacy of FDR.
It is impossible to devise a plan for economic recovery without knowing what caused the downturn in the first place. FDR didn't have the slightest idea.
As the great free-market economists Ludwig von Mises and F.A. Hayek (who won the Nobel Prize in 1974) showed, when a government-established central bank, such as the Federal Reserve, forces interest rates below the level at which the free market would have set them, it sets off an unsustainable investment boom, particularly in time-consuming projects far removed from finished consumer goods (mining, construction, etc.).
February 11, 2009 at 7:34 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Valkyrie (anonymous) says...
Now if interest rates had come down because the public was saving more, then the public's saved resources would have provided the material wherewithal to see all the new investment through to completion. But if interest rates come down because the central bank forces them down artificially, as in the case we're examining here, then the investment boom cannot persist because insufficient resources have been saved to fund them. The passage of time will reveal that they cannot all be completed. Many of these investments turn out to be malinvestments - that is, investments that should never have been undertaken in the first place, but that investors were misled by artificially low interest rates into thinking were profitable. They have to be abandoned. The bust comes.
In other words, it isn't the "free market" that causes the boom-bust cycle. It's the central bank's interference with the free market.
It's essential that government not interfere in the economy during the bust. Malinvestments need to be liquidated, not propped up with emergency loans. The economy's structure of production needs to be reorganized, with resources moving out of firms and sectors that were artificially and uneconomically expanded during the boom, and into genuinely profitable lines of production that cater to real consumer wants. Prices and wages need to be flexible in order to effect this rearrangement.
FDR interfered in this healthy process every step of the way. Not surprisingly, recovery eluded him. (And as I show in Meltdown, my new book, even the common claim that "World War II got us out of the Depression" is false and yields unnecessary ground to the stimulus-mongers.)
That's why the depression of 1920, whose first year was worse than that of the 1929 depression, was so short lived. Instead of a "stimulus" package, the federal government cut its budget. The Federal Reserve didn't try to inflate the boom back into existence. The economy sorted out the sound investments from the malinvestments, and before long the United States was back to setting production records once again.
Where is Warren G. Harding when you need him?
Thomas E. Woods, Jr., is the New York Times bestselling author
February 11, 2009 at 7:35 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
yird (anonymous) says...
whistlingdixie, Since your beloved democraps got us into this mess in the first place trying to put everyone in homes they could not afford and limiting our energy resources in the name of Al Gorp's global warming fiasco maybe you are stupid enough to think the same people can solve our problems by throwing more money at them.
No need to respond, your talking points have already been dispersed ad nauseam by other morons.
February 11, 2009 at 9:30 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
CMLMADDOG (anonymous) says...
WTF?!
I thought our new president was going to take care of my gas tank!? I'm below half-tank! Pass this damn stimulus bill!
I thought he was going to take care of my mortgage too! Since I'm renting because I CAN'T AFFORD to buy a house, I need to apply for a mortgage so I won't have to worry about it.
I love this presidency so far! He has granted my every wish so far!
Darn it! Now I realize I have to go to bed because I HAVE TO GO TO WORK IN THE MORNING.
I have never been able to attend a "rally," cuz I have to work during the week! Wrap your head around that. OK....TRY to wrap your head around that.
February 11, 2009 at 10:28 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
FiscalConservative (anonymous) says...
Nice try with the demand side economics JD_SIMMS: Also, did you study under Laffer?
Problem with the premise of demand side economics is what the gov't will be spending the money on. Keynes wanted infrastucture, which this bill has but it also will create more bureaucracies which are terrible wastes of money. A corporation's leaders have a responsibility to increase profits to appease shareholders. The objective of a bureaucrat is to increase his budget. They also have tremendous amounts of overhead which is why there are $500 hammers and toilet seats. (you have to allocate this overhead) Also with this increase in spending comes paying for it. You can borrow it, raise taxes, print it, or cut some programs. They are not going to increase taxes, borrow it, or cut programs (except defense). They are going to print it. Increase the money supply will cause inflation. Commodities will skyrocket because the futures market contracts will be increasingly bid up. When prices are higher and people are not making more money everyone will be worse off. Not a Pareto superior move.
February 11, 2009 at 10:29 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
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