At PETA, another silly idea
By Brian Hicks
Previous columns
To read more from Brian Hicks, go to: postandcourier.com/hicks
It's hard to question the motives of a group whose only goal is to champion animal rights, but PETA has gone off the leash.
This week, the People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals attacked Charleston horse carriage tours, said they ought to be banned because horses are forced to dodge cars, breathe car exhaust and walk on the pavement all day long in the heat.
Well, that sounds like a meter maid's job description, and no one's picked up their cause yet.
Why do this when there are plenty of real villains? Pick on the cretins who put on pit bull death matches, the hunters who kill whales, club baby seals.
But instead of these worthy causes, they go after people who actually love animals.
"I got in the animal business because I like animals," says Tom Doyle, owner of Palmetto Carriage Works. "Most of the people involved in this business feel the same way."
What about horse sense?
You know, it was all fun and games when PETA had the campaign with the models who stripped, said they'd rather be naked than wear fur.
When they picked on the circuses, it got a little murky. For every shady outlet that mistreats animals, there are many others like the Clyde Beatty-Cole Bros. Circus, where trainers treat the animals pretty well.
By that reckoning, we'd ban parenting because some people abuse their kids. How about we ban voting because of how Congress turned out?
Truth is, the horses in Charleston have it better than many animals. Sure, they have to work for their supper — but who doesn't?
Doyle treats his horses better than most companies treat their employees. His horses get eight weeks of vacation and, between jobs, sit in front of a fan that blows a cool mist. When's the last time a firefighter got the day off because it was too hot?
PETA doesn't want to negotiate conditions for horses, which is a legitimate debate. They said horses ought to be given their freedom.
Well, where are they supposed to go, and what are they going to eat? In case you haven't noticed, there are few amber waves of grain left in this country — somebody paved paradise, put up a parking lot.
If PETA wants to stand up for animal freedom, sue the developers. The critters have a good case.
Dog and pony show
The problem here is that some nonprofits, like PETA, have to spend all their time raising money. They do that by doing stupid things that attract media attention. You can only harp on cockfighting and neutering so long before people get bored.
So PETA will have to get progressively wilder to make ends meet. Maybe they'll start a campaign to arm deer so hunting is a more evenly matched sport. Or they'll argue for slower cars so the dogs can actually catch them.
But they aren't going to get anywhere in Charleston, thanks to Mayor Joe Riley. New York City argued over carriage tours for about two years. Riley put this one to rest in less than a day.
He told PETA they were barking up the wrong tree. Again.
Reach Brian Hicks at 937-5561 or bhicks@postandcourier.com.
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Comments
hooveryankee (anonymous) says...
Damn, For once I agree with Riley. Go figure
There are some people who will find anything to complain about and PETA is one of them.
April 10, 2009 at 12:53 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
MC29461 (anonymous) says...
Outstanding column, thanks Bryan for the great work.
April 10, 2009 at 12:53 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
isharemyopinions (anonymous) says...
PETA Sucks Monkey Balls. WTF,,, Did anyone ever see the Penn and Teller episode of BullShi*t about Peta..
April 10, 2009 at 4:49 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
BillytheKid (anonymous) says...
If it gets to hot, park the horses, they do, and get on with it. Best job for a "stock" horse it to work Charleston.
April 10, 2009 at 5:13 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
sig (anonymous) says...
Joe should figure out a way to have PETA banned from Charleston, in fact maybe Sanford can get them banned from South Carolina. They are just a bunch of idiots!
April 10, 2009 at 5:36 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
retired (anonymous) says...
I'm a member of PETA.
P--People
E--Eating
T--Tasty
A--Animals
April 10, 2009 at 7 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
theronce (anonymous) says...
This was a pretty good story. PETA might have sold me on their stand if they had just stepped up to the plate and volunteered to take the horses' places in pulling the buggys. Their failure to man-up just goes to show how empty their rhetoric is.
April 10, 2009 at 7:05 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
number1volsfan1 (anonymous) says...
PETA brings hypocrisy to a new low:
http://www.consumerfreedom.com/pressR...
April 10, 2009 at 7:25 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
bullygirl (anonymous) says...
Good Story. What PETA fails to realize is that most of the horses that are used by the carriage companies would be dead if the companies didn't buy them. They buy horses at auctions where other people are buying them to kill them for other reasons, so in actuality the carriage companies are saving the lives of these horses. (I used to work in the market while in school and got to know many of the carriage drivers--they really do care about the horses.)
PETA really needs to focus on true animal cruelty cases....like puppy mills and such.
April 10, 2009 at 7:32 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
number1volsfan1 (anonymous) says...
PETA doesn't care if the horses are killed, in fact, they encourage it (refer to my news link above).
April 10, 2009 at 7:35 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
eds777 (anonymous) says...
People like PETA, who think that animals have rights, are VERY confused people. However, just like the Southern Poverty Law Center, they have to keep stirring the 'crisis' pot in order to raise money.
April 10, 2009 at 7:48 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Chicago_Thug (anonymous) says...
PETA Killed 95 Percent of Adoptable Pets in its Care During 2008
Hypocritical Animal Rights Group's 2008 Disclosures Bring Pet Death Toll To 21,339
WASHINGTON DC Today the nonprofit Center for Consumer Freedom (CCF) published documents online showing that People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PETA) killed 95 percent of the adoptable pets in its care during 2008. Despite years of public outrage over its euthanasia program, the animal rights group kills an average of 5.8 pets every day at its Norfolk, VA headquarters.
http://consumerfreedom.com/pressRelea...
April 10, 2009 at 8:13 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Weeeee (anonymous) says...
hahah PETA.
We're talking about the same people who wants the Pet Shop Boys to change their name.
April 10, 2009 at 8:18 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Coup_de_Dawg (anonymous) says...
Stop the miss treatment of these horses now! Or at least focus on something else and leave cockfighting alone, my roosters are almost done with their molt. Fight Time Baby!!!!
April 10, 2009 at 8:54 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
hotchick (anonymous) says...
Well written, informative, and entertaining article! Great job Brian.
PETA is a joke. I am still sorry that they actually won out in their publicity attack on the Abbey in Moncks Corner about the chickens and the monks stopped selling eggs. Don't budge, Riley.
April 10, 2009 at 8:56 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
dawhetsell (anonymous) says...
PETA members must be yankees. Tar and feather them . Then put them on a train and ship them back north to the rusted out , empty factories to eat yellow snow because they will not eat real food.
April 10, 2009 at 8:58 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
pullmyfinger (anonymous) says...
Peta was created for people who had nothing else to do with their lives, kind of like the NAACP.
April 10, 2009 at 9:03 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
blah_blah_blah (anonymous) says...
PETA wants the Pet Shops Boys to rename themselves Rescue Shelter Boys. I'm not lying!!!
http://www.cnn.com/2009/SHOWBIZ/Music...
oh, and I'm a treehugger, too; vegetarian for 3 years, now eating only organic meat, preferably meat that was hunted (deer, duck, etc.)
PETA is no good!
April 10, 2009 at 9:04 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
coolfreaknbeans (anonymous) says...
PETA is ridiculous. I don't know if anyone has seen their latest crap, but take a look at this, it's hilarious. I don't know how anyone could take them seriously.
http://www.peta.org/sea_kittens/
April 10, 2009 at 9:06 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
dhshjh (anonymous) says...
dawhetsell...You, and other people like you, are the reason that people from other states think SC is so backwards. It is unfortunate that there are some people here that still resent that they lost the war. Get over it. Why do you show your ignorance and make all the good people look bad?
April 10, 2009 at 9:25 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
dustym59 (anonymous) says...
Hey PETA...LAST WEEK MY BOSS RODE MY ASS...CAN U HELP ME?
April 10, 2009 at 9:30 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
coolfreaknbeans (anonymous) says...
lmao @ dustym59 !
April 10, 2009 at 9:34 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
BlackReign (anonymous) says...
Posted by dustym59 on April 10, 2009 at 9:30 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Hey PETA...LAST WEEK MY BOSS RODE MY ASS...CAN U HELP ME?'
--------------
LMAO!
April 10, 2009 at 9:34 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
cinnabar (anonymous) says...
PETA is part of the lunatic fringe that we find becoming more and more mainstream nowadays. If everyone would just ignore them, they would go away. However, they are newsworthy so the paper and e-media outlets use their idiotic statements for filler. They should all get a life and visit nursing homes or elderly shut ins if they want to serve a higher purpose.
Any organization that beats up on the Mepkin Abby for 'mistreatment' of egg laying hens needs to be ignored. Irrespective of the type of domestic animal, if humans can't use them for some purpose, they never get a chance to live in the first place.
PETA should change its name to People for Elimination of Animals, as they seem to be all too happy to kill them as posted by Chicago_Thug...
April 10, 2009 at 9:39 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
shoelaces (anonymous) says...
You would think PETA would focus on bunnies and baby chicks during Easter time.
I think I will go eat a boiled egg. Too bad it isn't from Mepkin. Anyone seen the mushrooms they are growing out there now? They are expensive too.
Way to go PETA....bunch of losers without real jobs.
April 10, 2009 at 9:50 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
RTC (anonymous) says...
I thought PETA stould for "Please Eat This Animal".
I saw a guy with a t-shirt that had that on the front with an arrow pointing towards his groin.
This group will always find something to complain about. It's a shame that they don't have to worry about making a living like the rest of the population.
April 10, 2009 at 10:10 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
brooke207 (anonymous) says...
These comments really irritate me..I am by no means a supporter of PETA, I saw the Penn & Teller episode on PETA and I understand that their tactics are extreme and not always (practically never) in the best interest of animals. HOWEVER, I have lived downtown for 5 years. Currently, one block from the market. I walk to work near Broad Street everyday..I literally pass no less than 8 carriages a day. They stop right in front of the office I work in everyday. Have any of you ever seen them up close every day for years??? They have the saddest eyes, so solemn looking, and always have their heads down. And man, when it gets in the 90's and humidity is 80% or more, those poor things are toting around fat tourists all day long, all summer long. With the steaming hot payment beaming up on them at all times. And everyday I see speeding cars dodging around them, not even bothering to slow down in effort to not scare the horse. Doesn't anyone find that to be cruel???? I don't know what causes them to nay so loudly, but they do it all the time, perhaps in irritation. There is no reason for these tours to go down Broad Street in the mid-day, when it's full of traffic, and huge trucks plowing by on deliveries, but they do. I understand where they would be if these companies didn't buy them to work, but I wish that people would at least acknowledge that they do have it rough and PETA, if anything, was simply trying to bring that to everyone's attention. I have felt this way for a long time and I am glad PETA did bring it up, despite being shot down. I think a better solution would be to only do carriage tours near the battery around the park, where people are driving slow anyway, and do more WALKING tours around the busy streets since everyone seems to be a tad overweight these days. Better for the horses, better for the people.
April 10, 2009 at 10:18 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
yird (anonymous) says...
PETA, Green Peace, Sierra club, Nature Conservancy, and the violent Earth Liberation Front have caused untold harm to thousands of private land owners and businesses yet in this modern era of political correctness they are tolerated.
Should animals and the environment be protected? Of course! But at what cost?
Ranchers have been denied grazing rights to land generations of their forbears used for that purpose, because some rarely seen rodent residing on that land has made it onto the endangered specie list.
Nearly every plot of land with standing water no greater than a pee hole can be categorized as a wetlands, unless of course some developer greases enough palms in which case a variance is miraculously issued.
Property rights are one of the hallmarks of a free society and each of these organizations, despite their claim of doing good works, is systematically working in concert, to destroy that right.
Add into the mix the insane global warming zealots, who have swallowed that tripe hook line and sinker and we have a serious problem facing us as a nation.
April 10, 2009 at 10:43 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
counterpoint (anonymous) says...
I worry about the tourists who are forced to endure being downwind from the drop-bag.
April 10, 2009 at 10:47 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
annemarie (anonymous) says...
I'm sorry, and regardless of PETA, I was a carriage driver and I am telling you - the horses and mules live in hell. They are not meant to carry the over-stuffed carriages. One company in particular has carriages that are for 13 or 14 people. The animals are not properly rested or watered, though you are trained to say so by the company owners. Let Mayor Riley pull a carriage for a day - proportionally-suited to him - and see how he feels. They are NOT rotated to pasture every few weeks. It is all a ruse, believe me.
And why is it the POST_COURIER has all these columnists listed, and absolutely nothing to read? I remember when Ken Burger spent a whole column making fun of a lady who was window-shopping on King St. while talking to her dog! So what, Ken! Plently of people talk to their dogs - Are you people just insensitive or are you animal-haters? You live in the most historic city in America - a fascinating city full of things to write about - and the P_C has nothing to read that is not flat and uninteresting - even if it is an interesting subject, you make it boring. Please! Get some writers who have the curiosity to explore and write about Charleston with the intrigue the city deserves.
April 10, 2009 at 11:04 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Sark (anonymous) says...
"Did anyone ever see the Penn and Teller episode of BullShi*t about Peta.."
Oh yeah.
PETA: bringing democrats and republicans, whites and blacks, atheists and christians together in disdain.
April 10, 2009 at 11:13 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
coolfreaknbeans (anonymous) says...
PETA sucks. They have their headquarters in VA. When I lived there for a bit we tried to take our kids to the circus. Big fn mistake. They made it impossible to enter. They had a truck set up displaying (way too graphic for children) videos. They literally shoved pamphlets in the hands of children and screamed horrible things to them. I have no use for this "organization". They are pathetic attention, fame seeking whores. We didn't leave the vehicle and went home.
April 10, 2009 at 11:14 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
devilsadvocate77 (anonymous) says...
I think PETA has seen too many My Pretty Pony cartoons and have a distorted sense of the value of an animal. Maybe they should take up the Pit Bull fight and see about getting those nasty dogs out into some meadows to lead a stress free, non-combative life. That might actually save a few peoples lives' from being mauled by one.
April 10, 2009 at 11:15 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
brooke207 (anonymous) says...
"Well, that sounds like a meter maid's job description, and no one's picked up their cause yet."
What you are failing to acknowledge, Mr. Hicks, is that meter maids CHOOSE the job they have. They can quit anytime they want. I see those people all day as well, and guess what? Half the time they are hanging out in a car, air-conditioned, or on their cell phone chatting away with friends. Or huddled up together talking, eating and carrying on. They also go in hotels and businesses around where I work to use the restroom and take a break. So please do not compare these hardly-working individuals, who actually have freedom, to voice-less laboring animals!!
April 10, 2009 at 11:34 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
isharemyopinions (anonymous) says...
You know what. I would kill one kitten to save one of your lives. PETA Would let you die before they kill a single kitten
April 10, 2009 at 11:51 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
my2centsworth (anonymous) says...
I just read the PDF file on PETA regarding the animals that they have put down- and the question I would pose to them is this: "Are you really sure you are qualified to make statements regarding animal cruelty when you yourselves are putting so many down on a daily and weekly basis?" I have taken those carriage tours and the companies who use the horses are -very- protective of those animals!
I wonder if PETA has a contract with the dog food companies... Hmmm
April 10, 2009 at 11:52 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
SCHoser (anonymous) says...
Posted by dustym59 on April 10, 2009 at 9:30 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Hey PETA...LAST WEEK MY BOSS RODE MY ASS...CAN U HELP ME?
POST OF THE DAY!!!
April 10, 2009 at 12:59 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
ed52 (anonymous) says...
i don't think i have EVER met a bigger group of idiots than peta.
April 10, 2009 at 1:06 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
dustym59 (anonymous) says...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9ijLu...
watch this peta lovers
April 10, 2009 at 1:27 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
walleyedwoman1215 (anonymous) says...
I don't know firsthand how the carriage horses are treated, but I do know they are draft animals (Percherons, Belgians, Shire crosses, etc.) that have been bred for three centuries to carry armored soldiers into battle and pull heavy carts.
I hope they don't "live in hell" as the OP said, but they are genetically designed to be hardy, resilient and incredibly powerful.
Also, horses are herd animals. They neigh and whinny to establish the location of other horses.
Just my 2 cents :-)
April 10, 2009 at 1:40 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
malthus (anonymous) says...
Growing up in the Downtown and the market area specifically I have seen a merchant killed by an out of control carriage horse and numerous accidents and injuries (most were fortunately minor) caused by careless guides. For every careful driver there is going to be a careless one. For every company manager that cares about the animals there will be one who is so greedy he will turn the handicap access to a building where the company office is into a parking space just to fit in room for one more carload of passengers. In the summer months no one actually checks the horses well being until there is a complaint made. The horses and mules also create a sanitation issue that has been mocked by the media many times. Riley does not want to lose a massive source of revenue and that is understandable, but why make horses and mules collapse or be injured when there is an over crowded jail about ten minutes away.
April 10, 2009 at 1:47 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
annemarie (anonymous) says...
These draft horses -- however -- were not originally bred to walk on concrete (but dirt) much less 10-14 hours a day, in the heat, amid traffic, or to pull the poundage that they pull around Charleston. I DO think the tour guides care about the horses; I don't think the tour company owners do. They are blinded by greed. And if any employee voices an opinion concerning the lack of care of the horses, they are cajoled and if that doesn't work, fired.
April 10, 2009 at 2:52 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
annemarie (anonymous) says...
And thank you, Brook207, for your sympathy for these sweet animals who are tortured in plain sight, daily. Yours was s very moving post.
April 10, 2009 at 2:55 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
annemarie (anonymous) says...
P.S. Guarantee you it was a carriage company owner who contacted Brian Hicks to write a story pooh-poohing the notion the horses are anything but ebulliently happy w/ their enslavement to Charleston tourism. I'll just bet!
April 10, 2009 at 3 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
YankeeLady (anonymous) says...
I agree that these carriage horses live in hell, toting around thousands of pounds in overstuffed carriages, in heat that is hazardous to their well being. I was downtown a few days ago and noted that many of the animals have skin erosions on their sides from the tack rubbing on their bodies. I saw another animal who had to dig in several times to get the overloaded carriage moving. The carriage trade is primitive and needs to be retired. What about the stalls for the horses and mules? Are they big enough for them to lie down? The only reason they are still in business is that the tourism industry is about all that Charleston has going for it,and the carriage trade lobby has infiltated City Hall.
By the way, all PETA members aren't Yankees, as if that's something so terrible in itself. Get over the civil war already and stop being so backwards.
PETA needs to be controversial, in order to call attention to the gross mistreatment of animals in factory farms, circuses, laboratories, canned hunting preserves and by humans in general. Unfortunately, there are too many brain-dead idiots who think that it's fun and a somehow a God-given right to mistreat other creatures.
April 10, 2009 at 3:05 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
malthus (anonymous) says...
Probably the same carriage company that got the free publicity in the article.
April 10, 2009 at 3:06 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
LadyRenegade (anonymous) says...
There should be checks and balances for all programs, including private businesses, involving animals and children where they cannot speak for themselves.
People must come to understand that there is a HUGE difference between Animal Rights and Animal Welfare, they are not the same by any means.
There are MANY non-profit organizations that NEED help protecting animals and children.
Many bills that are seemingly innocent, are being pushed through, that while not personally effect you now, may lead to your doorstep. How long until dressing Fluffy in that cute outfit is considered abuse? How long until mandatory sterilization? When will you be told you may have 2 pets total of any species? When will you be fined for animal abuse if your dog is on a lead tied to a tree in your own front yard while you're washing your car? Many cities across the country are already debating these as laws!
BSLs are not the answer, but they are highly supported by PETA and those they can inspire by fear. The last LEGITIMATE statistics for which dog bites were reported was in 1994, FIFTEEN YEARS AGO by the CDC "...the most recent year for which published data are available, an estimated 4.7 million dog bites occurred in the United States and approximately 799,700 persons required medical care." In 1994 the population of the US was 262 million people. More people go to the hospital for a broken toe.
The U.S. Army base housing bans pit bulls, American staffordshire terriers, bull terriers, rottweilers, dobermans, chows and wolf hybrids. My son, who lost his leg in Iraq and suffers from TBI & PTSD, cannot live on base with his Rott. Despite having her CGC, she is considered a dangerous dog. That is the equivalent of saying because you're black you are a crackhead, or if you are white you are redneck trailer trash. When we allow these types of organizations to speak for us, we lose our own voices.
Laws are MUCH harder to remove (look at poker!) than to make!
Just don't be surprised when you get your summons. After you tell your grandchildren about the circus, you can tell them about zoos. There won't be any. Congress is right now discussing the enactment of a law not allowing the transport of ANY exotic animal, called the "Monkey Law" because of ONE idiot. That law will include zoos, aquariums, etc.
Coffee's brewing people. This goes a lot further than horses in Charleston. The people in PETA, and those that align with them, have the ears of people very high up. They are very well organized. While you are living in your own world, they are planning your future. Without an animal to share it with.
Regarding the comments about the horses sounding loud and appearing restless, it can seem that way if you're not used to being around them. Their nays and whinnies are LOUD.
April 10, 2009 at 3:15 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
CWL922 (anonymous) says...
PETA was a respectable group when it first came about. Lately it seems to be run by a bunch of lunatics that do not know there a-- from a hole in the ground.
April 10, 2009 at 3:34 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
annemarie (anonymous) says...
At least PETA is doing something for the horses. P'haps a local group divorced from PETA should organize to SAVE THE CARRIAGE HORSES FROM TOURISM, and really do something about these poor animals.
April 10, 2009 at 4:04 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
annemarie (anonymous) says...
Take a look here: http://www.banhdc.org/
New Yorkers are taking a stand to ban horse-drawn carriages, and it's NOTHING like the torture you watch these animals endure in Charleston - even aside from the danger of potential accidents.
April 10, 2009 at 4:11 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
annemarie (anonymous) says...
You wrote:
"Why do this when there are plenty of real villains? Pick on the cretins who put on pit bull death matches, the hunters who kill whales, club baby seals."
-- Do you honestly think there is a difference? Worse, these horses and mules endure a prolonged torture - day after day after day.
April 10, 2009 at 4:18 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
annemarie (anonymous) says...
Oh, and one more thing (sorry, but cruelty to animals gets me all riled up) - To the P&C: Might not a worthwhile story for your paper be to see what these tour guides are paid, and whether they are offered insurance? Hummm? compared to what the carriage company owners bring in for themselves. You might be amazed, and it would be a revealing story.
April 10, 2009 at 5:11 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
skeeter (anonymous) says...
A horse with a job wont end up in the belly of a frenchman where horse meat is a delacacy.
PETA can suck my PETA.
They're fanatics and I can't stand fanatics. I drove carriages for 10 years and the horses are trerated with the utmost care!
April 10, 2009 at 6:39 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
YankeeLady (anonymous) says...
Speaking of fanatics, it seems as if there are way too many insensitive blockheads who have absolutely no level of consciousness regarding the sensibilities, intelligence and suffering of animals. It pushes a really violent button in you folks who fear that animal welfare and rights supporters and organizations like PETA might make you stop and think twice about your "rights" to misuse animals.
April 10, 2009 at 8:30 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
whatelseisthere (anonymous) says...
Come on...who, but tourists, carriage drivers, and horses are out in the mid-day sun in Charleston in the summer? Just who is anyone kidding? It's too hot, we all know it.
April 10, 2009 at 10:19 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
kmichael (anonymous) says...
For many reasons, after 20 years, I have decided to cancel my subscription to the paper. One main reason is the journalistic fast food such as Brian Hicks pedals. How is he qualified to have his own daily column is baffling. The PETA story and the ignorant, racist, redneck chatter it generated is just another example. Could it have been thoughtfully written? Could both sides been given the opportunity to be heard? Sure. It is, however, much more tempting to stir the pot and pepper your story with sarcastic and wry remarks to sound clever and current. The fact is PETA has a real point here to make, however, the average 'joe six-pack', doesn't want to hear it: Animals do suffer and they do feel pain. It's much easier to pretend they don't and go back to the burger & fries that will eventually kill us. I miss the days of Ashley Cooper when Charleston was celebrated each day and you gained something from reading the local paper. Today, we are left with the lowest common denominator of writing: Amateur bloggers.
April 10, 2009 at 10:43 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
yird (anonymous) says...
YankeeLady,"What about the stalls for the horses and mules? Are they big enough for them to lie down?"
Not hard to tell your a smart Yankee.
Horses rarely lay down less the sick, dying, or rolling in the grass. They sleeps on their feets.
April 10, 2009 at 10:47 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
yird (anonymous) says...
their, their ,their, got it this time.
Worked hard today and I'm tired and cranky, but not a crankyyankee!
April 10, 2009 at 10:51 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
yird (anonymous) says...
Oh MY, there was right all along, brain , get back to work!
April 10, 2009 at 10:54 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
fyrefighter273 (anonymous) says...
malthus, you have the best one yet, empty the jail knock off a day of their sentence to pull fat a** yankees all day but then the SPLC, ACLU and Prison Reform Act will shut us down, I say we can do that if the drivers don't use a whip!
Skeeter speaks the truth as well, I thought peta was some crazy Greek bread anyway.
April 10, 2009 at 11:11 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
armymom (anonymous) says...
yird, it's they're! LOL! Too many ways to spell it!
April 11, 2009 at 12:01 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
santee_chris (anonymous) says...
Awesome article!
April 11, 2009 at 12:53 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
hockeyaki (anonymous) says...
While I am certainly not a fan of PETA, there is no doubt that the horses drawing the carriages in downtown Charleston are NOT treated well. They are forced to draw at least a dozen obese tourists in broiling hot conditions day after day every summer. The weight load they are forced to carry (especially in the overpowering Southern heat) amid the loud traffic is animal cruelty.
Despite their claims, the carriage company owners do not love animals or they wouldn't treat these horses so poorly. I've been around horses all my life and I've seen the ones drawing the carriages in downtown Charleston. These creatures are overworked and utterly miserable. They are not in good condition and some need medical attention.
Mr. Hicks made no attempt at professionalism and simply touted his buddy's position without even bothering to present the other side. There are many Charlestonians who are horrified at the miserable life these creatures are forced to endure but it's obvious that Brian Hicks only interest is in helping to keep the money rolling into his friend's pockets.
Brian Hicks article is so colored by his friendship with the carriage owners that I blame the Post and Courier for allowing him to pass his biased opinion piece off as news worthy. His entire article is simply a promo for his carriage owning buddies and unfortunately, their mistreated horses are paying the price for his blatant nepotism.
April 11, 2009 at 1:54 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
webman2 (anonymous) says...
PETA should have stuck to eggs. Hmmmm, you know, PETA folks remind me of eggs: white, fragile, yellow in the middle, and only been laid once.
April 11, 2009 at 7:24 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
eatmorecollards (anonymous) says...
I have no use for PETA, but I think this article is BS as well. Those carriage companies are not in the business because they love animals so much. They are in it for the money.
I think the carriage tours should be seasonal. Those horses shouldn't be worked on downtown streets during June,July,August and September.
April 11, 2009 at 8:19 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
pavlovsdog (anonymous) says...
PETA needs to find something else to do with their time. Cities all over the US and the world use horse and carriage for tourists. I lived in a community in PA that was heavily populated by Menonites. Guess what they use as transportation, horse and buggy. As long as drivers are aware that there are horses on the road, and caretakers take care of their animals, then PETA should buzz off.
April 11, 2009 at 9:29 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Reader (anonymous) says...
AnneMarie wrote these things: "[T]he horses and mules live in hell. They are not meant to carry the over-stuffed carriages. One company in particular has carriages that are for 13 or 14 people. The animals are not properly rested or watered, though you are trained to say so by the company owners."
Also, this: "These draft horses -- however -- were not originally bred to walk on concrete (but dirt) much less 10-14 hours a day, in the heat, amid traffic, or to pull the poundage that they pull around Charleston."
These comments are simply not true or are irrelevant. The horses are specifically bred to carry great loads. People like AnneMarie confuse what a human can do with what would be heavy for a horse. A horse of 1200 pounds can pull that same amount ON A FLAT DREDGE. Pulling a carriage of people on wheels is not very hard work for a horse. It is simply not true to say that pulling a carriage of people is hard for a horse.
And, the horses most certainly are watered adequately and rested. I don't have any idea what standards AnneMarie thinks apply, but I suspect she is again equating being a human and being a horse. When I was a driver, even in the summer, on a busy day, you might give five tours. That meant that the horse was walking for, say, four hours a day. Not too bad. Twenty-hours of standing around per day is not too much to expect of a DRAFT horse.
And, as for the heat, these animals were bred to do outdoor work on farms and other locations. They were not designed to work in cubicles in offices somewhere. And, it gets hot outside. That is a fact. It is no hotter downtown than it would be on Johns Island pulling a wagon of farm equipment.
And lastly, as for the poster who diagnosed suffering from the horses' "sad eyes," that is simply ridiculous.
April 11, 2009 at 10:03 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
skeeter (anonymous) says...
Reader you said it the best. By the way Annemarie the carriages hold 16 people. You must have been fired from one of the companies because you seem to have a chip on your shoulder.
Again Reader I think your post was the best. If I was a draft horse I would much rather have a pie job in Charleston than working from dusk till dawn either plowing a field or lugging logs out of a forest!
April 11, 2009 at 10:45 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
margaret (anonymous) says...
My husband and I visited Charleston last summer and stayed at the Market Pavilion Hotel. Our trip was grand until we saw the weary and sad carriage horses pulling at least 15 or more overweight tourists in heat which was unbearable for us (who were doing nothing more than walking the streets of the City). I was so terribly saddened and appalled that those poor horses would be made to pull such enormous weight in such extraordinary heat and humidity that I wrote to the Mayor of Charleston. Although I received a nice enough reply, clearly he was not of the same opinion as I.
I am the owner of a small business and as a result of what we saw in Charleston, where apparently it is acceptable to overwork these beautiful creatures, I have decided not to hold my Sales Incentive trip for our top sales reps in Charleston. I will continue to rally for the horses until better measures are in place or until the abuse stops altogether.
I will never forget the face of one of those poor creatures as s/he looked at me with the saddest eyes I have ever beheld. It is heartbreaking and the horses should not be forced to endure such heavy loads in such hot weather. At least compromise and stop the rides altogether during the summer and have only 2 or 4 people carriages during the other seasons. At least that would be a start toward the humane treatment of these magnificent creatures.
And, for the record, I don't always agree with the over-the-top methods of PETA, but they do bring causes to the forefront and, overall, I do think that their heart is in the right place and on the side of the animals.
April 11, 2009 at 12:42 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
armymom (anonymous) says...
Is Margaret a horse-whisperer?
April 11, 2009 at 4:39 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
yird (anonymous) says...
margaret, So glad that you refrained from taxing a carriage with your bulk and the BS your full of, because the combination of both would have exceeded the hauling capacity of the animals.
April 11, 2009 at 5:11 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
MP (anonymous) says...
Margaret- thank you. We appreciate your NOT coming back to Charleston.
April 11, 2009 at 5:33 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
MP (anonymous) says...
kmichael- and you are one. But, unlike the others, you can add arrogant to your resume.
April 11, 2009 at 5:38 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
walleyedwoman1215 (anonymous) says...
No one has mentioned that the SPCA ensures that the horses are pulled off the streets in the summer when the temperature/humidity tops out. Their internal temperatures are also monitored. An overheated horse goes back to the barn and is sprayed down. (Yes, I've seen this :-)
I don't know if the carriage company owners love their horses, but I'm pretty sure they protect their investments(a draft horse costs more than a couple hundred bucks.) Look at it this way: A 1,600 pound horse in full harness collapsing with heat stroke on Market Street would be very bad for business.
April 11, 2009 at 10:57 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
fyrefighter273 (anonymous) says...
margaret, please me, don't tease me, stay out! please assure us you will not return, maybe you can join the NAACP ban! Call it the fat a** yankee ban. I grew up south of here and can remember my grandfather using mules on his/our farm in the fields, I think the draft horses here are doing better.
April 12, 2009 at 12:40 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
WSM (anonymous) says...
"And thank you, Brook207, for your sympathy for these sweet animals who are tortured in plain sight, daily. Yours was s very moving post."
Ummm...what about the baby humans?
Sadly, one poster was right about the "mainstreaming" of fringe radicals. Media outlets are businesses, and they will sensationalize much to sell a paper or have higher ratings to sell more expensive advertizing time.
The thing is, so many of the simple-minded and poorly educated out there see this stuff, and say,"Oh, this is a great cause! Why, I'll ignore the deliberate starvation of baby Christian children by Marxists and Muslims in Africa, I'll ignore the mutilation of children by Islamofascists in Afghanistan and Iraq, and hell, I'll even ignore that homeless woman with the kid on the way to the grocery store because I just loooooooooveee kittens and puppies!"
The irony is that these are the same "open minded" people who call everyone and everything a racist if you don't goosestep along with them.
Besides, there isn't much sacrifice involved with PETA. Nor brains, for that matter.
April 12, 2009 at 3:10 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
malthus (anonymous) says...
I see there are some who either believe the publicity stories about the horses temperatures being checked or are trying to keep the lie going, but when I worked fifty feet from the horses lined up along market street I have seen many times how the checks go. They only happen after a citizen's complaint is made or when people get all upset over a horse collapsing in traffic. Yes accidents do happen, and animals can get killed, but when you see a horse bolt full speed into the brick wall of the market building and the remains of the carriage tear into a minivan, you get a different opinion of how the animals are treated. Yes these are animals originally intended to drag heavy sledges loaded down with cargo, but in this day and age quit being cheap and break out the air conditioned tour vans, you want to go green get a van with an electric engine, you want fresh air and to really see the sights get off your fat butt and do a walking tour. The horses could be phased out for a more modern tour experience that doesn't leave mounds of manure and puddles of urine stinking up our beautiful city. And think on this how much do the owners and guides think of the animals well being when they are double parked on market street during the same time when the merchants are trying to pack and are also forced to double park. The hotel owners don't want the horses in front of their business because of the stench, so they move the animals to the busiest part of the street. And the only reason they have to double park is that there is a line of empty carriages lined up to peddle tickets. It is time to push our city out of the dung heap and modernize our tourism practices.
April 12, 2009 at 10:47 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
brooke207 (anonymous) says...
My point exactly, Malthus. I think it is time for some things in Charleston to modernize a bit, and I am saying that while holding a degree in Historic Preservation. I don't think it would take away from the city's character if we phased out carriage tours. A city can still retain its beautiful historic charm while incorporating a less controversial/polluting form of touring/transportation. San Francisco, for example. I realize we cannot have electric buses wired around our city, but the point is that modern upgrades wouldn't ruin the city and stop people from coming.
Many people in these comments have focused on their hatred for PETA. Again, this has nothing to do with PETA; it's about the treatment of the horses, or lack thereof. PETA simply has a stronger voice than say, people like myself who would have a more difficult time having my opinions heard on a higher level. As my boss says, you can't fight city hall. Unfortunately there is likely nothing that can be done about the tours:not until someone high up wants to acknowledge citizen's complaints and be more progressive. Mayor Riley will likely be around a for lonnnng time.
And Margaret, I am sorry for the discourteous comments directed towards you. Not all southerners are rude, un-educated, Yankee-hating hypocrites. There are plenty of people in Charleston who have class, and are accepting of all people who visit the city. Furthermore, the horses DO have sad looking eyes; so Reader and WSM, until you live by the Market and bear witness to those animals every day, you can't say for sure. Dogs and cats can look sad, why can't a horse?
Lastly, a quick 3rd grade grammar lesson to those who desperately need it:
THERE are many ways to make one's self sound ignorant. Tourists should get off of THEIR lazy butts and enjoy the walk-ability of this city. Those shiesty carriage company owners should find another business venture, as THEY'RE clearly not deserving of one penny of THEIR earnings.
April 13, 2009 at 12:19 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Numba10 (anonymous) says...
first--The horses carry nothing other than thier harness
second---bred to wlk on dirt?--have you ever noticed the ancient cobblestones streets of Charleston and other european citiess
third--the surface of the earth is not only dirt
April 13, 2009 at 2:19 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Numba10 (anonymous) says...
also----both north and south lost the war-----all states lost thier states rights-
April 13, 2009 at 2:21 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
annemarie (anonymous) says...
I was not fired from any carriage company nor do I have any ulterior motive against any carriage company other than the fact that I care for these animals. And as the years pass, as traffic increases downtown, as tourism has increased bringing more and more people to tour via buggies, the lives of the carriage horses looks more and more dire.
April 13, 2009 at 5 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Reader (anonymous) says...
Brooke wrote this: "Furthermore, the horses DO have sad looking eyes; so Reader and WSM, until you live by the Market and bear witness to those animals every day, you can't say for sure."
I think some peoeple have watched too many episodes of Mr. Ed. Horses' eyes do not express happiness or sadness in any way. If they could, then why wouldn't professional veteranians just look in the eyes of a horse to tell something about its condition? This is classic projection by misinformed but perhaps well-intentioned people.
Moreover, I pass these horses every day, and I worked with them for two years. Can you say the same?
Until anyone can cite any source from an objective, professional veterinary or equestrian organization even remotely suggesting that it is even difficult (much less cruel) for a draft horse to pull 1.5 times its weight in a wheeled vehicle on flat, paved surfaces for five hours a day, five days a week, I'll stick to my position.
April 13, 2009 at 8:16 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
YankeeLady (anonymous) says...
Reader, you're insensitive and just don't get it. Horses and other creatures feel pain and are sensitive beings. Why are you so resistant to these facts? Why does acknowledging animals strike such fear in the hearts of the blockheads who see animals only as things to use, eat or kill?
April 13, 2009 at 10:30 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
yird (anonymous) says...
brooke207 I suppose I should ignore your implying that I'm incapable of grammar exceeding that of a third grader since I know that to be an error on your part but your unveiled pomposity leaves me no choice but to respond.
I was very tired when I (forgive me for I have sinned) miss used THEIR and THERE when I should have written THEY'RE.
======================================
"And Margaret, I am sorry for the discourteous comments directed towards you. Not all southerners are rude, un-educated, Yankee-hating hypocrites. There are plenty of people in Charleston who have class, and are accepting of all people who visit the city."
Your comment above was nothing more than you vainly trying to convince everyone how polite ,well educated, southern belle classy and tolerant of others YOU are.
By the way Miss Correctness, what is a lonnng.
A degree in historic preservation? Is that on the same level of technical accomplishment as underwater basket weaving?
Progressives, YUK!
April 14, 2009 at 12:11 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Reader (anonymous) says...
YankeeLady wrote this: "Reader, you're insensitive and just don't get it. Horses and other creatures feel pain and are sensitive beings. Why are you so resistant to these facts? Why does acknowledging animals strike such fear in the hearts of the blockheads who see animals only as things to use, eat or kill?"
You strike me as an idiot.
I never said horses cannot feel pain. I said that you cannot diagnose a horse's very limited mental state by looking deep into its eyes. That sort of nonsense is just uncritical, overly sentimental claptrap resulting from projecting a viewer's own beliefs on an animal. People see what they want to see.
Find a single objective source for the idea that pulling the weight of a carriage on wheels is even hard for a draft horse (much less cruel) and you can tell me to shut up. Until then, at least keep your opinions based on facts.
April 14, 2009 at 12:49 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
CedarPosts (anonymous) says...
PETA's poke at Charleston is just that an attention grab, and anyone who gives money to these ding dongs is just helping PETA's board earn six and seven figure incomes while doing little to save the dozen stay dogs and cats that are scooped up every day in Charleston County.
Even Liam Neeson has come out against PETA's attack on horse carriage companies. More at http://cedarposts.blogspot.com
April 14, 2009 at 3:46 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
annemarie (anonymous) says...
You people who are clueless to the sensitivity of God's creatures, to any opinion that differs from your own, who express yourselves so crudely, who are so obviously of a redneck bent -- make me ashamed to be a South Carolina native - in fact, you SCARE me to death.
Thank you, the few literate, informed, caring people I have corresponded with here on this subject.
And God SAVE THE CARRIAGE HORSES! Tourism won't relieve them as long as they can pile on more tourists, as long as greed exists... Oh, and those of you are so lacking in empathy.
April 14, 2009 at 12:05 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
ascholtes (anonymous) says...
"Pick on the cretins who put on pit bull death matches, the hunters who kill whales, club baby seals."
PETA already does this..
"there are many others like the Clyde Beatty-Cole Bros. Circus, where trainers treat the animals pretty well."
Apparently you have not done your research on the circus. No circus treats their animals well!
April 14, 2009 at 1:11 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Reader (anonymous) says...
AnneMarie wrote: "And God SAVE THE CARRIAGE HORSES! Tourism won't relieve them as long as they can pile on more tourists, as long as greed exists... Oh, and those of you are so lacking in empathy."
Yes, God save them for the misinformed but enthused.
Apart from the lack of even a shred of support for a completely incorrect belief that the horses are treated cruelly by having them walk around town a few hours a day, let me ask this: If having a horse pull a carriage were cruel and if the horses were in some hellish position, just why is it that they continue to walk when prompted to?
That is not a sarcastic question. If a horse were physically exhausted or overheated, why would the horse not simply stop in its tracks?
No one with any carriage company I have ever been familiar with has ever beaten a horse into submission, and in fact, carriage drivers have no more than a flimsy crop to touch their horses. No horse has ever been denied food or drink as punishment for poor performance. So, why would a horse continue pulling a carriage if doing so were really hellish?
Those who say they can see "sadness" in the eyes of the horses will, I predict, claim that the horses have a heightened sense of social responsibility or are aware that doing so would cause a traffic jam.
April 14, 2009 at 11:09 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
malthus (anonymous) says...
I read the comments made by Liam Neeson and they do not apply to this story at all, they relate to his positive personal experiences with the carriage conditions in New York. While I do not agree with any of PETA's actions, they do often point out areas that need to be researched or reviewed. Before the farming industry became automated animals were used as a more efficient tool than human labor. As farming modernized many labor animals were phased out. With more efficient methods of tourism available, shouldn't the carriage horses too be phased out of mainstream tourism as well. I personally have few complaints over the small carriages used for weddings and special occasions as those animals are very well groomed and in my opinion appear to be healthy and content. The tour companies in Charleston should invest in making their industry better, not digging in and holding on to the past ways of doing tours. The larger carriages are what I feel give many a sour taste since those animals are the ones seen collapsing in the street when temperatures went above the point where the animals could continue to do tours. Those are also the carriages that cause wrecks and injuries due to a lack of maintenance or mechanical failures. I think too many people here are getting touchy feely about the plight of the animals and others are out to hammer back at them. In the eighteen years I had been down in the market area I cannot recall a single time an animal was abused, what I saw was more greed, negligence or carelessness that lead to problems and injuries to people and animals.
April 16, 2009 at 12:25 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
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