Toll road proposal rejected
County Council panel OKs traffic study committee
The Post and Courier
A Charleston County Council committee Thursday shot down a controversial proposal to build a toll road across Johns Island.
Councilman Paul Thurmond, whose district includes Kiawah and Seabrook islands, proposed the resolution, which asked the state Department of Transportation to seek proposals from private companies to build the toll road.
But council's Planning and Public Works Committee voted 5-3 against the resolution. Only Councilmen Thurmond, Teddie Pryor and Tim Scott were in favor of moving forward with the road. Councilman Henry Darby abstained from the vote.
Councilman Curtis Inabinett, whose district includes Johns Island, said he had been leaning toward supporting the proposal but changed his mind after receiving "countless e-mails and telephone calls" from constituents opposed to it.
The road, known as the Sea Islands Parkway, has been discussed, on and off, for more than a decade, he said, but opposition to it "has become more heated" in the past year.
Inabinett also said that before he could support construction of the road, he needed to know the exact route, where the on-ramps would be, and how many landowners would be affected.
Previous Stories
Panel to consider Johns Island toll road, published 10/16/08
Public survey on toll road reveals split views, published 08/31/08
"Those questions, in my mind, have not been answered," he said.
Inabinett then asked council members to approve forming a committee of people that have a stake in whether the road is built to study how to best deal with traffic on Johns Island. His motion passed with the support of six council members. Thurmond and Scott were opposed, and Darby abstained.
Supporters of the parkway say it would reduce traffic problems on Johns Island's two-lane roads, making them safer. And it would provide a faster route from Charleston to Kiawah, Seabrook and the southern end of Johns Island. They also say it wouldn't contribute to increased development because it would have a limited number of access points.
Opponents say it would encourage development, bring more traffic and ruin the rural character of the island.
After the committee's decision, Buddy Darby, chief executive officer of Kiawah Development Partners, who supports the parkway, said the county doesn't need another study on the road. It has already had two studies done and both indicate that the parkway is the best solution for traffic problems on Johns Island. And, he added, he previously tried to bring together people and groups who have a stake in the parkway, but those who are opposed never could commit to a meeting.
Thurmond said the county had studies done in 2001 and 2007 and both indicated that the parkway was the best way to deal with traffic problems on Johns Island.
"People are miserable right now and Johns Island is going to continue to grow and be developed," he said.
Bill Holtz, who serves on the Seabrook Island Town Council, said he's disappointed, but not surprised the resolution failed. "A vocal group (on Johns Island) says, 'Keep it rural while we double the number of developments.' "
Paul Roberts, chairman of the Kiawah Island Community Association and founding director of the Center for Transportation Studies at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, blames opposition to the road on the strong influence of the Coastal Conservation League, a group that has stated it doesn't support a toll road.
Megan Derosiers, the league's director of conservation programs, said she's glad the project was voted down. And she supports a study on the network of roads on Johns Island. "It's not just about one project," she said, "it's about the whole island."
Reach Diane Knich at dknich@postandcourier.com or 937-5491.
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Comments
Reader (anonymous) says...
"People are miserable right now and Johns Island is going to continue to grow and be developed," Thurmond said.
Talk about a quick flip flop. Life is just intolerable out there, but people will continue flocking out there. Huh?
Let traffic serve as its own check on urban sprawl, and stop building more roads. If traffic really gets bad, then people will stop building tract housing out there. If people are still throwing up tract housing out there, then the traffic situation is not that bad obviously.
As a wise person once noted, solving traffic problems by building new roads is like solving a weight problem by buying a larger belt.
October 17, 2008 at 1:10 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
zekemire (anonymous) says...
A win for local residents! I cannot believe they did not pull out the false logic used in the argument for "prepared foods tax", "accomodations tax", "rental car tax" and others! That argument is "this will make tourist from other areas help pay for this, that or the other, when the only people hit with the tax to any consequence are LOCAL RESIDENTS!
October 17, 2008 at 7:17 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
postman01 (anonymous) says...
This illustrates stubborn stupidity and nothing else. Adaptibility is a core component of intelligence itself. This indicates a failure to adapt to changes in reality (traffic problems) and therefore calls the actual intelligence of those opposing this into question.
The polite term for this is cognitive dissonance. How many people are going to DIE on Bohicket Road before the low IQ crowd stops arguing? Anyone who drives it sees the memorial to someone who DIED crashing into a tree on Bohicket whenever they drive down that stretch of the road and also experiences the traffic problems on a daily basis if he or she drives on that road frequently. Yet the low IQ crowd continues to argue instead of admitting ERROR, which evidences an impaired mental process.
October 17, 2008 at 7:28 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
postman01 (anonymous) says...
I read the comments posted before mine. All of them are paranoid and incorrect. A toll road would be used only by those willing to pay the toll, REGARDLESS. This negates the argument of all three prior posters, since this has nothing to do with obesity by any logical inference, nothing to do with the "criminal Bush", and also nothing to do with TAXES since taxes don't fund toll roads. Where is the KNOWLEDGE BASE and REASONING ABILITY of these people?
October 17, 2008 at 7:36 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
justmythoughts (anonymous) says...
I don't object to the road. I am against toll roads in general. The concept that a toll road is funded by the people who benefit/use the road is false. People living in the area benefit when EMS or Fire can reach their home faster. Local residents driving the old 2 lane roads benefit from reduced traffic sence the load is now spread between both roads. Oh, and my favorite... after the road is built who do you think maintains it? The Department of Transportation maintains it and they are funded by taxes.
If the road makes sense then build it. If you can't afford to fund it then don't build it.
You only need to look at central Florida and what happens when toll roads get out of hand. You can't drive across town without a pocket full of money.
Good luck Johns Island.
JustMyThoughts....
October 17, 2008 at 8:12 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
charlestonian (anonymous) says...
So as postman01 confirmed the only people that would really be willing to pay the toll to drive across Johns Island are the Kiawah/Seabrook residents. So it would be in fact a private road for Kiawah/Seabrook residents at the expense of Johns Island residents whom he calls the "low IQ crowd".
October 17, 2008 at 8:38 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Southern_Cousin (anonymous) says...
I would like to thank the County Council for refusing to approve Councilmen Thurmond's request. It concerns me that a committee is being formed to study this (wasn't that just done with the 'Maybank Pitchfork' plan?). It would have been better to say "No" to this request and close the door on the Golf Tournament Road forever.
The people of John's Island do not want this road. Nor do we want any more cheap, tacky, ugly developments. We implore the council to stop approving these - it is within your power to do so.
*** KEEP JOHN'S ISLAND RURAL ****
Sorry, those who moved to Kiaweh and Seabrook know the condition of the roads when they moved there.
*** FIX OUR ROADS FIRST ***
Why don't you high IQ people (LOL - is that code for Republican? ) who want this road (no doubt so you can plan to build more ugly tacky developments and line your own pockets) go somewhere that has already been destroyed (North Charleston, Ladsen, Goose Creek, Summerville, plenty of Mt Pleasant, etc)? Build your ugly developments there and leave our beautiful, rural island in peace.
Sign, one Dumb Tree Hugger, or, if you prefer, "low IQ Environmentalist" (LOL-sticks & stones, baby)
October 17, 2008 at 8:44 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
sweetsouthernpearl (anonymous) says...
Amen spankebuns!
Such rude comments in referring the "low-IQ crowd". Those with a low-IQ are those who think anyone will pay to use a toll road. Who will pay a toll to use a road? Certainly not the majority of the current traffic to Kiawah & Seabrook since they are workers who will not want/be able to afford the tolls. How many residents really live on Seabrook/Kiawah and how often would they use this new road? Too many of the spoiled rich try to bully and buy their way into what they want to the detriment of the general population.
October 17, 2008 at 8:46 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
LEYH (anonymous) says...
Thank you Curtis Inabinett for listening to Johns Island residents. Johns Island residents want to stay rural. I am sorry that Kiawah and Seabrook are on the other side of Johns Island but you can not squash us just trying to get to your islands.
And as far as the person who DIED on Bohicket, didn't a trucker just DIE a couple of days ago on I526? Haven't many people DIED on 26, 526 and other larger roads? People DIE on all types of roads in car accidents. It is unfortunate but this is not the answer.
October 17, 2008 at 8:54 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
sweetsouthernpearl (anonymous) says...
"Sorry, those who moved to Kiawah and Seabrook know the condition of the roads when they moved there."
EXACTLY!!!
That's just like the person buying a home next to the interstate or train tracks and then whining about the noise.
Building more roads is not the answer. If the county wants to alleviate the traffic issues then build a light rail system. And build an incentive system to reward those who use it (hint: tax breaks might be a good place to start).
We seriously need to reduce emissions and halt our dependence on oil - building roads is counter-productive to this!
October 17, 2008 at 8:56 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mkris (anonymous) says...
Kiawah Partners sure has its fingers in alot of politician's pockets .... Henry Brown to push the Flood Insurance to build on sand, now Paul Thurmond and the Toll Road.
How much do they pay these guys for this kind of private access?
October 17, 2008 at 9:20 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
SC_Native_ElCid07 (anonymous) says...
Glad this bill got killed. That is the last thing Johns Island needs.
As far as our roads out here on Johns Island goes, if people SLOW down and CHILL out there wouldnt be nearly as many accidents or problems. I personally like the 2 lane scenic roads and everyone I know that visits thinks they are beautiful. Widening the roads is just going to spur more development and turn our rural little island into the next Mt. Pleasant which is not what people here want. It breaks my heart to see a P.O.S. cookie cutter neighborhood pop up over night and destroy yet another piece of our island. All in the name of progress I guess... Its truely is sad. When its gone its gone.
KEEP JOHNS ISLAND RURAL FOREVER!!!
October 17, 2008 at 9:45 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mbookworm (anonymous) says...
postmano1... I don't agree with your "low IQ" remarks, but I do agree that the roads leading to Kiawah and Seabrook are deadly...
To Johns Island residents... how many of you drive out that way everyday to go to work? How many blue collar workers from other parts of the lowcountry drive these deadly roads everyday to go to work?
A new road is not just for the rich folks... it's for the everyday man who wants to make a living for their family and live to see another day
We need a new road out here... toll or not
It's a real shame you can't see that and can only see rich vs. everyone else...
October 17, 2008 at 10:16 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
SC_Native_ElCid07 (anonymous) says...
The roads aren't so deadly if you get slow the heck down and open your eyes. I've been driving them for years...
October 17, 2008 at 10:29 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
iceman1978 (anonymous) says...
The current highways are dangerous and people have been killed, but that's no reason to build an expressway across John's Island. If they build an expressway across John's Island it will only be a matter of time before it becomes the next Mount Pleasant. The rural character of John's and Wadlamaw will be gone forever. How about these for solutions:
Have a moratorium on development.
Repave the current roads and build guard rails in high-risk areas.
Install better lighting for visibility on Maybank and Bohicket.
Build a bridge going from River Rd to the back-end of Kiawah. They can have a gate since the place is gated, but why only give Kiawah one entrance on the west side? If you put a second bridge on the east side it would save time in getting downtown. It would also reduce traffic on the other end.
October 17, 2008 at 10:32 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
chris50 (anonymous) says...
why don't we just clear cut all of the trees on johns island? that way the roads will be safer.
October 17, 2008 at 10:58 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
iceman1978 (anonymous) says...
To my knowledge it isn't. Both sides need to be considered on this. Johns and Wadmalaw Island residents, many of whom have lived there for generations, have every reason to be concerned about over-development. On the other hand, real estate taxes from Kiawah and Seabrook pay for a sizeable portion of the local education budget relative to the number of residents. Also, the resorts provide jobs for people, some of whom live on Johns and Wadmalaw Island.
Here's what I would do:
-Build a 2-lane causeway linking the eastern side of Kiawah with River Rd. Line trees on either side to have it blend in better.
-Extend 526. This is coming. May as well do it. However, I would only allow for one on/off ramp on Johns Island. The extension of 526 would only cover the very northern tip of the island, but by connecting it to River Rd it would mean less distance for Kiawah residents to get to 526. It would also mean a faster commute into downtown for Johns Island residents and a quicker commute from West Ashley to downtown and would cut back on the bottlenecks near the round Holiday Inn.
-Make the extension of 526 contingent on a moratorium on future development for Johns, Wadmalaw, Kiawah and Seabrook Islands. Require that future development projects follow a 50/30/20 rule. 50% must remain rural, 30% can be developed residential and 20% must be commercial.
-Repave Bohicket, River Rd, Maybank Highway and the Betsy Kerrison Pkwy. No widening, just repave them. That alone will improve safety.
-Establish better reflective lighting along the roads to improve visibility.
-Along high-risk areas at sharp turns, they could install a guard rail to reduce the impact in the event of an accident.
-Most of all though? Strictly enforce the speed limits. Speeding along those back roads is just foolish.
October 17, 2008 at 12:22 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
yeahright (anonymous) says...
Lot of big words by Postman, mostly illustrating his own ignorance. This same "low IQ" crowd that he refers to in his first post are the same people that would likely be unwilling to use a toll road, as referenced in his second post.
Seems the "low IQ" crowd is prudent in protesting a toll road they wouldn't use in the first place.
Fix the existing roads, nix the super-highway to the gated communities.
October 17, 2008 at 12:32 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
postman01 (anonymous) says...
Mbookworm, sometimes we have to hit misguided people where it hurts. I'm actually sure that not all folks that oppose this road have "Low IQs" but slamming them verbally like this brings out their defensiveness and also goads them into making more stupid observations, whether they actually have a low IQ or not.
Look at "yeahright"s post. Notice the personal attack. He has no idea of how vast or extremely limited my intelligence and knowledge base actually is.
The fact is that this toll road will not materially harm anyone and the land taken through eminent domain to SAVE LIVES and facilitate efficient transportation would result in a good thing. The property owners whose land would be sold to the gov't would suddenly have a LOT MORE MONEY which they could save, spend , or invest. Note the observations about "greed". They are based on jealousy and envy, which are primitive and destructive emotions that make and keep people poor and powerless. For one, it would provide a lot of jobs for a time in this hurting economy. The kneejerk opposition we're seeing here is based on fear, which is a lousy basis for making decisions about any transportation system. Your insight into the thought processes of many posters here is correct and it is a shame that we share the same correct assessment. The world would be a MUCH BETTER place if our mutual insight was incorrect but it's not.
October 17, 2008 at 12:58 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
charlestonian (anonymous) says...
So what about the land this new private road runs across, some of that may be land that has been in a family for generations. Some people may not want to see their familiy land taken away from them or cut in half. They have no option to say no, their only option is take the check the assesor thinks is fair since the private developers are taking there land for eminent domain.
The fact is this is a private road to be built by a private company, maintained by a private company solely for the benefit of the residents of Kiawah/Seabrook and is going to go across the land of Johns Island residents that will have no say if they want to sell there land or not.
Maybe you ought to try this another time when the CEO residents of Kiawah/Seabrook aren't making 30+ million a year screwing over the working class residents like Johns Islanders and causing a financial crisis for all of the United States.
October 17, 2008 at 1:18 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
yeahright (anonymous) says...
"He has no idea of how vast or extremely limited my intelligence and knowledge base actually is"
This coming from someone who made the "low IQ crowd" statement. Ignorant.
You state that the "toll road will not materially harm anyone"? Ask property owners who have their land taken from them about that one(could it be possible that they'd rather have their land than "A LOT MORE MONEY"??). Again, ignorant.
More importantly, if the toll road is not being used by Johns Island residents or workers traveling to and from Kiawah and Seabrook due to the toll itself, how does this make Bohicket and River safer?
It's a glorified driveway from one end of Johns Island to the gates of Kiawah and Seabrook. Nothing more.
October 17, 2008 at 1:20 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
PalmettoDP (anonymous) says...
There seems to be some misunderstanding about how the proposed toll road was going to be funded. It was going to be funded through a toll concession. SCDOT would own the land the road passes through, but a private company would be responsible for funding, building, and maintaining the road. If it were to fail, the taxpayers would not be on the hook (I doubt said road would fail though, because there's already a traffic demand for it).
That being said, I don't live or drive on Johns Island - and really don't care if they build it or not. I just wanted to clarify how the road would be funded.
October 17, 2008 at 3:33 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
postman01 (anonymous) says...
Getserious, you are demonstrating the exact illogical thought processes I am somehwat good at detecting and then verbally demolishing. I am a Charleston Native and I live in an apartment in Mount Pleasant. While I am not financially desperate, your stereotype of people who think like me is completely confused.
I do not have a high opinion of myself (directed at you, Spankerbuns) and in fact do not have a huge ego. All of my critics are responding exactly as I expected and anticipated. Thank you for confirming my judgment with your behavior.
The more intelligent and well read among you might recall the movie "2001: A Space Odyssey". The computer in that movie (Hal 9000) was very instuctive to those who got it. Hal's purpose was to process information without distortion or concealment--something someone with a gigantic ego is inherently incapable of doing. I happen to have this gift to an extent but not with the perfection of a machine. I am all too human, believe me.
So there were no personal attacks as such by me and my critics find themselves in the unenviable position of behaving EXACTLY as I anticipated due to the STIMULUS of my first two posts. It's so sad to see any "person of reasonable intelligence" fail to understand an opportunity to listen, learn, and improve oneself. I do that all the time by absorbing and then accurately processing information derived therefrom including correctly assessing many though not all of the posters on this thread. I wish my critics would at least try to do the same because they would be better for it and I am all for people bettering themselves, myself included.
October 17, 2008 at 3:49 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
postman01 (anonymous) says...
Correct, PalmettoDP. You seem to have a mastery of facts that eludes some though not all of the posters here.
October 17, 2008 at 3:52 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
yeahright (anonymous) says...
Taxpayers would not be on the hook if the road fails, but there would still be a glorified driveway to Kiawah bisecting the heart of Johns Island.
Johns Island residents would not benefit from using a limited access road, and workers traveling to and fro won't pay a toll when there are 2 other free routes, even though both of those roads are in major need of repairs.
October 17, 2008 at 4:49 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
charlestonian (anonymous) says...
Correct as I stated it would not be a SCDOT road, but a Private road running across Johns Island for the sole purpose of Kiawah/Seabrook residents getting off there prvate island faster.
October 17, 2008 at 5:10 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
HighDef (anonymous) says...
every Kiawah worker coming from outside Johns Island would use this road, it would save time for all and that time could be spent with family or whatever. I'd rather see 5-26 extended, it would require less land and keep the rural area's intact. The Beach Co. should be commended for the job they've done out at Kiawah, best golf/tennis resort in the usa, providing lots of jobs etc.
October 17, 2008 at 6:22 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mkris (anonymous) says...
SCDOT would own the land. Therefore they would condemn the private land and pay fair value. TAXPAYER money pays for the condemned land transferred to PRIVATE hands to benefit the BEACH COMAMPANY and Kiawah Partner's profits.
Either way the taxpayer gets the shaft.
October 17, 2008 at 7:13 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
LEYH (anonymous) says...
Bottom line, postman, Johns Islanders don't want a toll road cutting through our rural island. People want their land, not the "fair market value" the gov. would offer them. If they wanted money instead of their land, it would be up for sale. How would you like the gov. to come in and take your property..oh, wait, you RENT an apartment in MT. PLEASANT..never mind.
October 17, 2008 at 8:27 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
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