Civilian looks at Guantanamo
McClellanville man leaves U.S. base reassured, troubled
By Neal Petersen
Editor's note: Neal Petersen settled in the Charleston area after completing the 1998-99 Around Alone sailing race.
GUANTANAMO BAY, CUBA — Gitmo? The images flow fast: Soldiers herding men in orange jumpsuits behind a razor-wire cage; prisoners with shackles and black hoods kneeling on Cuban dirt.
AP
The sun rises over the detention facility at the U.S. Naval Base in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.
They mix with others we've all seen — soldiers treating prisoners like dogs at Abu Ghraib — along with my own memories of hardened lifers with the Irish Republican Army I once visited in an Irish prison.
These were the images I carried last week on a trip from my home in McClellanville to the military base at Guantanamo Bay.
During my visit, the military would give me an eye-opening look at one of the world's most controversial detention facilities. New images would replace some of the old ones. I would leave both reassured and troubled.
It wasn't a sightseeing trip. The military invited me to give four motivational speeches to the troops and their families. Since competing in the 1998-99 Around Alone solo sailing race, I've made numerous
presentations, usually at high-level corporate gatherings, about the importance of transforming barriers into solutions.
So when the invitation came to visit Gitmo, I had mixed feelings. Over the years, I've had limited contact with military service people. What kind of reception would I get?
Previous stories
Brown acts to bar detainees from brig; Lawmaker opposes terror suspects in Lowcountry, published 11/20/08
Brig's future considered for detention of terror suspects; Graham against Navy facility holding suspects if Guantanamo shuts down, published 11/16/08
But I also wanted to see this controversial place with my own eyes; and on Nov. 15, my wife, Darlene, and I found ourselves behind Gitmo's gates, behind the mines buried on the Cuban side to prevent defectors from reaching American soil.
In between my speeches, we would be given surprisingly in-depth tours of Camp Delta and Camp Six, where most of the detainees are held, comparable, I was told, to what a U.S. senator might get.
Our military escorts had a story to tell: They had made mistakes. They talked about the inadequacies of Camp X-Ray, the primitive fenced-off area where detainees were first held. Camp X-Ray was the world's first impression of Gitmo and the Bush administration's policy of detaining terrorism suspects.
"We were arrogant, thinking we knew how to do things. We were wrong but so much has changed," one enlisted man told me.
Today, Camp X-Ray is closed. It has been since 2002, though officers told us that media reports had surfaced recently claiming otherwise. Later, they took us to what was left of Camp X-Ray: Rusty barbed wire, roofs on buildings that had caved in, empty watchtowers, tall weeds. It was a dangerous place, but only because the buildings looked like they would collapse.
U.S. Army
Motivational speaker Neal Petersen speaks to a crowd Nov. 16 at Guantanamo Bay's Windjammer Ballroom.
Then we were taken to the new detention facilities, Camp Delta and Camp Six. They were in modern buildings. Armed guards were in watchtowers; unarmed guards were inside. Our escorts told us it was a detention facility, not a corrections facility, and that this distinction was important. The goal isn't to rehabilitate; it's to protect America from attacks.
We were told that the military was following Geneva Convention rules. They showed us photos of interrogation rooms, which had sofas and blue pillows. These images reminded me of a nice living room. They told us that the world is judging them by the mistakes of the past and giving them no credit for improvements they've made.
During our tour of Camp Delta, we saw three detainees in the distance, but we weren't allowed to talk with them. Camp Delta is for detainees who were "co-operative and demonstrated less hostility towards the guards," one official told us. We saw a room, much like a school classroom, where they were taught in Arabic and given help with English, and another that had about eight dorm room beds. Behind a screen was a television. Detainees were given a list of vetted DVDs to choose from. Our guard said the detainees enjoyed cartoons and Harry Potter movies.
I found one tidbit of information particularly surprising and a reminder of the costs of keeping people locked up. We were told that the prison spends about $60 per person per day on detainee food flown in regularly from the Middle East, prepared like they would get at home. Most of the detainees have put on weight from getting three meals a day.
A nurse then showed us the detainee hospital. She told us that doctors were available at a moment's notice. Later, I spoke with guards who said the detainees sometimes get more prompt medical care than they did. "Why does someone who wants to kill me get treated better?" was a common complaint I heard. "There are Americans with no health insurance and these (expletive) get anything they want," was another.
Camp Six, the next level of detention, is in a gray, concrete complex. Here, to prevent retribution, guards don't wear names on their uniforms. The chief warden showed us arrows that point to Mecca and told us how prison guards were not allowed to handle detainees' Korans. She said prisoners had two hours of outdoor exercise. At one point we passed a cone in the hallway asking us to keep our voices down because it was prayer time. Cells had a toilet and two bunks.
This wasn't the first prison I'd visited.
Between 1992 and 1994, I went to Portloise Prison in Ireland to speak about my sailing and life experiences to IRA and INLA terrorists who had been sentenced to life in prison. I felt more intimidated in Portloise than at Guantanamo Bay. At Portloise I felt an air of tension every second I was there. I remember the sounds of clanging steel doors and locks, the boots scraping the ground. At Guantanamo, there were fewer bars and more concrete. It felt calm, nothing like what I expected.
At the same time, it's difficult to compare the two because I interacted with the IRA prisoners but was kept away from the Gitmo detainees. And I would later get a taste from the guards about the challenges they face.
In Gitmo's early days, some guards had come straight from the battlefields of Afghanistan and Iraq. Some had seen their friends killed or injured in combat. When they assumed the roles of prison guards, they were angry and bitter and prone to taking out their emotions on the detainees. The military officials who briefed us acknowledged that this had been a big mistake.
Now guards generally go to Gitmo before being deployed to war zones. They're also given six weeks of special training and must shadow an experienced guard.
One enlisted sailor told me they are seen by the detainees "as a TV, because I have the remote control. I can turn you on or turn you off." Each day a detainee would ask him the same question and get the same reply. If the guard deviated one day, then the detainee had won some control and power.
Guards wear face shields because detainees throw feces, urine and other objects at them. They work for 12 to 15 hours a shift. The guards we met were courteous, and I wondered about the psychological impacts they're facing, short and long term. How will they fare after they leave the military?
In private conversations, I asked officers and enlisted personnel alike what they thought of the election and what ought to be done with Gitmo. They told me that they don't trust the media to get the story of Gitmo right. Many also said they don't have much faith in the current or future president, though they would follow orders no matter what. What they really want are clear orders with little wiggle room for interpretation or second-guessing.
I also asked if they thought it made sense to shut down Gitmo and move the detainees to the Navy's brig in Hanahan, S.C.
"Who wants these guys in their back yard?" was the most common response.
Back in our home in McClellanville, I find myself wrestling with the complexity of what we've wrought. I hear how a judge has ordered the release of five detainees. Will this compromise our fight against Islamic radicals? What happens if a detainee is released and participates in a new attack on Americans? What reaction would we get if we ship detainees to their countries of origin only to have the detainees executed there? How do we balance these possibilities with the fundamentally American principle that people who are detained deserve certain judicial rights?
I went to Gitmo with certain preconceptions. Now I'm back reassured that the military learned from some of its mistakes but troubled by the storms ahead.
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chucktonian (anonymous) says...
And now Obama is going to bring them to the US and let them all out. Change we can believe in!
November 24, 2008 at 1:12 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
ballachulish (anonymous) says...
Send them all to to Crawford!
November 24, 2008 at 5:20 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
WhoCares (anonymous) says...
Sounds like Mr. Petersen has had to eat a lot of crow and doesn't particularly like the taste!!
November 24, 2008 at 5:31 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
512c (anonymous) says...
reads like a press release:
"See, they get treated just great!"
Well, darn, why not treat them like we treated German soldiers in the war? We kept Germans and Italians here in Charleston!
November 24, 2008 at 8:25 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
SC_Native_ElCid07 (anonymous) says...
"Our escorts told us it was a detention facility, not a corrections facility, and that this distinction was important. The goal isn't to rehabilitate; it's to protect America from attacks."
Exactly, what goes on at these places should be left up to the government, not bleeding hearts back in the states. So far it seems they have done a pretty good job. No new terrorist attacks.
As far as "soldiers treating prisoners like dogs at Abu Ghraib", sounds like they treat them pretty good, I would treat them like the POS that they really are. It makes me sick that they even let them watch TV. They should be turning big rocks into little rocks all day long, sun up till sun down, until they out live their usefulness. Then, well... take em to see Allah!
These people want nothing more than to kill you and me. Simple as that. They have hurt alot of innocent folk and wrecked alot of lives with the stupid ideology. Most were captured on the battlefield fighting Americans for goodness sake! And people want to extend to them the same rights as U.S. citizens... WAKE UP AMERICA!
November 24, 2008 at 8:26 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
zekemire (anonymous) says...
The only problems are the headlong rush of lawyers and liberal democrats to bestow the rights of an American citizen on these horrible terrorist who only want to kill Americans and all others they consider infidels! They deserve the rules of the Geneva convention, no more, no less! Water boarding is not torture and should be used as a method of interrogation! These criminal terrorists should never be brought to the USA! Military tribunals should be used and those guilty should be executed immediately!
November 24, 2008 at 8:31 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
SC_Native_ElCid07 (anonymous) says...
Oh yeah, and if one of those POS ever threw urine or feces on me it would be on like donkey kong. Why are they allowed to get away with that?!
"What we got here is... failure to communicate
SO you get what we had here last week
Which... is the way he wants it...well...
HE GETS IT!"
November 24, 2008 at 8:36 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
grainofsalt (anonymous) says...
How, exactly, did Peterson have to eat crow?
He's a sailor and motivational speaker who was invited to Gitmo to speak. In this story, he has given his impressions and pointed out that he has learned a few things and is reassured, but also continues to have some concerns. It's an interesting, but very safe piece of journalism.
I'm unaware of Peterson previously expressing strong opinions publicly about Gitmo that he now feels he should reverse and apologize for with great humility. (That's what "eating crow" means.)
So... where does the crow-eating come in?
November 24, 2008 at 8:41 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
UrGatorbait (anonymous) says...
Jim Islander, great leftie talking points you spew there dude. Now do you have anything original or just the typical spew that you pass for adult conversation?
November 24, 2008 at 8:45 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
FTPAG (anonymous) says...
JimIslander,
I have read your 91 post here on charleston.net and I just wonder, who are you going to direct all your hate at when President Bush is gone? It doesn't seem to matter what the subject, your comment is always "I hate Bush".
I say close Gitmo and let all the inmates come live with you.
November 24, 2008 at 9:03 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
B_Fwank (anonymous) says...
The facts are simple - DEMOCRATS by a majority authorized Bush to act. Bush doesnt operate in a vacum, un-like you deluded mind spankQJimIsland.
************************************************
89-10 to renew and extend expiring portions of the Patriot Act, with Hawaii Democrat Dan Inouye not voting.
On March 2, 2006, Congress passed the USA PATRIOT Improvement and Reauthorization Act of 2005 with strong bipartisan support.
http://www.lifeandliberty.gov/subs/p_...
Due Process Clause for the President to order the military to seize and detain individuals who "qualify" as enemy combatants for the duration of a war.
Judge Williams finds that in the AUMF, Congress has authorized the indefinite military detention, as an "enemy combatant," of any individual "who meets two criteria: (1) he attempts or engages in belligerent acts against the United States, either domestically or in a foreign
combat zone; (2) on behalf of an enemy force." Post at 116.
"Al-Marri is an al Qaeda 'sleeper'
agent sent to the United States for the purpose of engaging in and facilitating terrorist activities subsequent to September 11, 2001," and "possesses information of high intelligence value, including information about personnel and activities of al Qaeda." ...arrival in this country, he was "trained at Bin Laden's Afghanistan terrorist training camps" and, "[a]mong other things, . . . received training in the use of poisons at an al-Qaeda camp." J.A. 217. He "met personally with Usama Bin Laden . . . and volunteered for a martyr mission or to do anything else that al Qaeda requested." J.A. 216. He traveled to the United States with money provided for him by al Qaeda for the purpose of carrying out his assigned mission.
******************************
Congress has empowered the President to detain enemy combatants provided the Government's allegations against them are true.
November 24, 2008 at 9:16 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
B_Fwank (anonymous) says...
Liberalism is indeed a mental disorder!
Liberals clinically mad, concludes top psychiatrist
Eminent doctor makes case leftist ideology is a mental disorder
"Based on strikingly irrational beliefs and emotions, modern liberals relentlessly undermine the most important principles on which our freedoms were founded," says Dr. Lyle Rossiter, author of the new book, "The Liberal Mind: The Psychological Causes of Political Madness." "Like spoiled, angry children, they rebel against the normal responsibilities of adulthood and demand that a parental government meet their needs from cradle to grave."
GET HELP JIMIsLANDER!
November 24, 2008 at 9:20 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
geekboy (anonymous) says...
Please do not feed the multi-named troll.
November 24, 2008 at 9:26 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
B_Fwank (anonymous) says...
Sure, the lies started with Bush...you are delusional islandboy.
President Clinton: "Earlier Today I Ordered America's Armed Forces To Strike Military And Security Targets In Iraq... Their Mission Is To Attack Iraq's Nuclear, Chemical And Biological Weapons Programs And Its Military Capacity To Threaten Its Neighbors ..." ("Text Of Clinton Statement On Iraq Attack," Agence France Presse, 12/17/98)
Former Vice President Al Gore:
Gore: "You Know, In 1991, I Was One Of Those Who Put Partisanship Completely Aside And Supported President Bush At That Time In Launching The Gulf War. And In That War, We Saw How Saddam Had Threatened His Neighbors And Was Trying To Get Nuclear Weapons, Chemical Weapons, And Biological Weapons. And We're Not Going To Allow Him To Succeed." (CNN's "Larry King Live," 12/16/98)
Gore: "[I]f You Allow Someone Like Saddam Hussein To Get Nuclear Weapons, Ballistic Missiles, Chemical Weapons, Biological Weapons, How Many People Is He Going To Kill With Such Weapons? He's Already Demonstrated A Willingness To Use These Weapons ..." (CNN's "Larry King Live," 12/16/98)
Sen. Hillary Clinton (D-NY):
Sen. Clinton: "I Voted For The Iraqi Resolution. I Consider The Prospect Of A Nuclear-Armed Saddam Hussein Who Can Threaten Not Only His Neighbors, But The Stability Of The Region And The World, A Very Serious Threat To The United States." (Senator Hillary Clinton [D-NY], Press Conference, January 22, 2003)
Sen. Clinton: "In The Four Years Since The Inspectors, Intelligence Reports Show That Saddam Hussein Has Worked To Rebuild His Chemical And Biological Weapons Stock, His Missile Delivery Capability, And His Nuclear Program. ... It Is Clear, However, That If Left Unchecked, Saddam Hussein Will Continue To Increase His Capability To Wage Biological And Chemical Warfare And Will Keep Trying To Develop Nuclear Weapons." (Sen. Hillary Clinton, Congressional Record, 10/10/02, p. S10288)
Sen. Robert Byrd (D-WV):
S "The Last U.N. Weapons Inspectors Left Iraq In October Of 1998. We Are Confident That Saddam Hussein Retains Some Stockpiles Of Chemical And Biological Weapons, And That He Has Since Embarked On A Crash Course To Build Up His Chemical And Biological Warfare Capabilities. Intelligence Reports Indicate That He Is Seeking Nuclear Weapons ..." ("Threats And Responses," The New York Times, 10/4/02)
Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D-CA):
Pelosi: "Others Have Talked About This Threat That Is Posed By Saddam Hussein. Yes, He Has Chemical Weapons, He Has Biological Weapons, He Is Trying To Get Nuclear Weapons." (Rep. Nancy Pelosi, Congressional Record, 10/10/02, p. H7777)
Sen. John Kerry (D-MA):
Sen. Kerry: "The Crisis Is Even More Threatening By Virtue Of The Fact That Iraq Has Developed A Chemical Weapons Capability, And Is Pursuing A Nuclear Weapons Development Program." (Sen. John Kerry, Congressional Record, 10/2/90, p. S14332)
November 24, 2008 at 9:52 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
B_Fwank (anonymous) says...
Sen. Kerry: "If You Don't Believe ... Saddam Hussein Is A Threat With Nuclear Weapons, Then You Shouldn't Vote For Me." (Ronald Brownstein, "On Iraq, Kerry Appears Either Torn Or Shrewd," Los Angeles Times, 1/31/03)
Former Sen. John Edwards (D-NC):
Sen. Edwards: "Serving On The Intelligence Committee And Seeing Day After Day, Week After Week, Briefings On Saddam's Weapons Of Mass Destruction And His Plans On Using Those Weapons, He Cannot Be Allowed To Have Nuclear Weapons, It's Just That Simple. The Whole World Changes If Saddam Ever Has Nuclear Weapons." (MSNBC's "Buchanan And Press," 1/7/03)
Sen. Edwards: "The Question Is Whether We're Going To Let This Man [Saddam] Who's Been Developing Weapons Of Mass Destruction Continue To Develop Weapons Of Mass Destruction, Get Nuclear Capability, And Get To The Place Where If We're Going To Stop Him, If He Invades A Country Around Him, It'll Cost Millions Of Lives As Opposed To Thousands Of Lives." (MSNBC's "Hardball," 2/6/03)
Sen. Harry Reid (D-NV):
Reid: "The Problem Is Not Nuclear Testing; It Is Nuclear Weapons ... The Number Of Third World Countries With Nuclear Capabilities Seems To Grow Daily. Saddam Hussein's Near Success With Developing A Nuclear Weapon Should Be An Eye-Opener For Us All." (Sen. Harry Reid, Congressional Record, 8/3/92, p. S11188)
Sen. Evan Bayh (D-IN):
Bayh: "In My Opinion - And I Do, As You Know, I'm Fairly Hawkish On Iraq. I'm Inclined To Support Going In There And Dealing With Saddam. But I Think That Case Needs To Be Made On A Separate Basis - His Possession Of Biological And Chemical Weapons, His Desire To Get Nuclear Weapons, His Proven Track Record Of Attacking His Neighbors And Others." (CNN's "Late Edition," 8/4/02)
Bayh: "The Question Is, Do You Want Saddam Hussein Having Chemical Weapons, Having Biological Weapons, Possibly One Day Having A Nuclear Weapon? Do You Want To Have To Deal With That? And If The Answer Is No, Then What Do You Do About It And When Do You Do Something About It?" (CNN's "Live Event/Special," 12/1/01)
Sen. Joe Biden (D-DE):
Biden: "First Of All, We Don't Know Exactly What He Has. ... We Know He Continues To Attempt To Gain Access To Additional Capability, Including Nuclear Capability. There Is A Real Debate How Far Off That Is, Whether It's A Matter Of Years Or Whether It's A Matter Of Less Than That, And So There's Much We Don't Know." (NBC's "Meet The Press," 8/4/02)
November 24, 2008 at 9:53 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
B_Fwank (anonymous) says...
Powell's chief role was to garner international support for a multi-national coalition to mount the invasion. To this end, Powell addressed a plenary session of the United Nations Security Council on February 5, 2003 to argue in favor of military action. Citing "numerous" anonymous Iraqi defectors, Powell asserted that "there can be no doubt that Saddam Hussein has biological weapons and the capability to rapidly produce more, many more." Powell also stated that there was "no doubt in my mind" that Saddam was working to obtain key components to produce nuclear weapons.
While Powell's oratorical skills and personal conviction were acknowledged, there was an overall rejection of the evidence Powell offered that the regime of Saddam Hussein possessed weapons of mass destruction (WMDs).
November 24, 2008 at 9:54 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mtw999 (anonymous) says...
Neil went in with some preconceptions about GITMO, most likely placed there by the MSM. When he actually saw this "evil" place, he realized the MSM was full of it. I first went there in 2004, just a couple of years after they closed X-ray and went back again in 2006. Altogether, I spent about a year there. I have seen a lot more of that place than most people ever will and it was never even remotely as bad as the MSM made it out to be. That stock footage they have been showing of the guy in shackles wearing orange being led through the barb wire in what looks like an outdoor camp is Camp X-ray. They showed that footage for years after X-ray closed, how's that for clouding the truth and shaping people's opinions?
I am glad someone with a real voice got a chance to pass the truth on to the public.
He pretty much summed up it nicely with the comments from the guards which show we bend over backwards to treat the detainees well. The Filipinos who work on the island live in far worse conditions and they are free to come and go when ever they like. The same applies for the Jamaicans working in GITMO as well. They have it better there than in Jamaica but still, the detainees live in nicer and cleaner areas.
Considering what the vast majority of these detainees have done to our soldiers and our country, the real injustice is the way the Filipinos and Jamaicans are living. Their living conditions should be switched.
Then I would sleep better at night.
Now I'll get to see what Obama is going to do.
I guess I'll get all the sleep I need when I am dead...
November 24, 2008 at 10:04 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
B_Fwank (anonymous) says...
Islandboy, you know why I cut and paste? Because you can not refute what is in th congressional record. And I know that for a delusional psychotic like yourself, to see the truth staring you in the face causes breaks in your warped reality.
Lets see, Bush was governor of texas when the majority of above quotes were spoke and placed into the record. How did that evil bush pull that off...?
November 24, 2008 at 10:05 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Satanssybil2007 (anonymous) says...
these detainees had some sort of hand in 9-11 and they are getting better treatment than our guys in jail here, they are mass murderers BS BS BS they get DVD's??? not here you dont, they get their special diets flown in from another country, here you barely get enough to feed a 5 year old, interrogation rooms with sofas and pillows OMG WTF is next a cold beer while being interrogated?
November 24, 2008 at 10:39 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
flinsc (anonymous) says...
This country is so soft. The same people that cry about Gitmo are the same people that sit on their ass at home and watch the show 24 with all the interrogation that goes on in that show. It is ok to have it all on TV, but god forbid it happen in real life. You know why we use to be the best country in the world? It is because we were willing to do what others woudn't. Don't think for 1 second I wouldn't trade the life of a scumbag in Gitmo to save 1000s here. Wait till next time you turn around, and see what was once great, turn into a world of hell.
November 24, 2008 at 10:56 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
eatmorecollards (anonymous) says...
I would simply like someone to ask them what they would do if they were released. It would be interesting to see thier replys. Maybe ask them that question several times and compare thier answers.
November 24, 2008 at 11:14 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
SC_Native_ElCid07 (anonymous) says...
LOL!!! That WOULD be funny! It would be even funnier if you had them hooked up to a ploygraph when you asked them! Dern needle would be flying off the chart!
Parole Officer: "Mohamed, if released, would you forget your crazy ideology and go on to function as a normal member of society?"
Mohamed the Terrorist: "YES!"
Polgraph Machine: BEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEP! (as smoke flies out and the machine stops working)
As the saying goes, "You know how you tell if an Arab is lying?
His mouth is moving!"
November 24, 2008 at 11:24 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
B_Fwank (anonymous) says...
I post those quotes for others that might just believe your democrat lies and talking points. So, you still cant except the fact that many big named dems lied about WMDs also?
November 24, 2008 at 11:57 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
GermanyXO (anonymous) says...
Great article explaining the history of how we created this mess are having to spend countless millions and losing precious lives to end it:
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Afg...
November 24, 2008 at 12:01 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
yird (anonymous) says...
Posted by JimIslander; said I never read the crap!
Jim I Slander everyone, it appears you read nothing. I suspect you just sit and watch MSNBC as they satisfy your childish sensibilities with their quaint "show and tell" performances.
Does your teddy bear enjoy these infomercials also?
November 24, 2008 at 12:15 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
theronce (anonymous) says...
These people taken off battlefields have tried to kill us and will kill us if we give them the chance. No one believed OBL when he declared war on us back in the 90's. Some of us get it now after 9/11. He has not surrendered or quit. The war goes on. What catches my eye is the foolishness and open, demonstrable lies told by some of these posters...and to top it off with high hypocracy, claiming that they care about the lives and treasure lost. It's safer on the battlefield in the mideast than in a mother's womb in America. Bush this and Bush that...you may as well howl at the moon like a bunch of wild dogs. What fool do you think believes that Bush did this without the willing cooperation and foreknowledge of Congress and the American people. Denying that damns anything that you have to say afterward.
November 24, 2008 at 1:27 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
MR_PRETTY (anonymous) says...
JimISlanded, your a very wise person. Don't get discouraged in this forum. you speak well and with great insight. remember, most people that post on this site, used to pull the legs off of insects when they were younger, and i believe that most of them still do to this day. cruelty and is and exstension of satin. i know now that satin comes in all shapes forms and color, but just hang in there with your sword of rightousness. Good shall beat evil! could you think of anything more evil than a person that would detain someone for no reason at all. some of those people are guilty of course, but i don't feel that all of them are guilty just based on the idea that i know the greed of my own country. and i know the history of my country. there are people out there that will not and cannot be fair. to lock someone up with out cause is a sin and the devils is alive and care nothing about doing whats right. the devil has many accomplices.
November 24, 2008 at 3:14 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
iceman1978 (anonymous) says...
The prisoners being held at Gitmo are being held as terror suspects. They are receiving better treatment at Gitmo than they would receive in their home country upon arrest and/or suspicion for a much lesser charge. To have food flown in daily from across the ocean (at $60 per person, per day) and to have access to better medical care than millions of American citizens should make groups like Amnesty International think twice before accusing the United States of human rights violations. Most other nations would have dealt with them in a manner substantially more harsh and draconian than we have.
I don't believe we need to transport them to the US. There's the risk of escape as well as the media circus that would quickly ensue. A better solution would be to build a prison in a very remote area of the far north. Has anyone considered the idea of using remote sections of Greenland or the Svalbard Islands?
November 24, 2008 at 3:18 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
rightofway (anonymous) says...
JimIslander - I'm a little concerned about your psychological condition that you would seriously think that men captured on the battle field trying to kill American service men and women should be treated better than the President, Vice President and others. You want the men who was attempting to kill Americans let go and then Bush and Cheaney put in their place or worse "placed in the harshest conditions the rest of their lives".
You need some serious help. You are a very dangerous person.
Jesus loves you anyway - there is still hope until your last breath, that you will come out of the darkness that you are in, into the liberating light.
November 24, 2008 at 4:08 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Iconoblaster (anonymous) says...
I'm disgusted (but not surprised) by the abject IGNORANCE of people like "rightofway" who justify the kidnapping and detention of ALL the people at Guantanamo because SOME of them "were captured on the battlefield trying to kill Americans". Nevermind that even when this assumption is true, it was a battlefield in THEIR country, which WE invaded.
Many, perhaps MOST of the people held at Guantanamo were NOT captured on any battlefield at all. Many were seized by their own indigenous enemies, and turned in to American forces for bounty... and they never raised a finger against Americans. Others fought, but again, WE invaded their country. What sort of pinhead thinks it is, or even should be, unlawful for anyone to defend their own country against invaders? These people are prisoners of war, no matter what you want to call them.
Fact is, the ignoramuses don't know if ANY of these people are guilty of ANYTHING. They have had nothing like a trial... and THAT is the point. People are arrested all the time for offenses they didn't commit... thats why we HAVE trials... to determine IF the individual has actually done something illegal.
What, exactly, do these alleged "loyal Americans" imagine they are doing when they argue that OUR OWN OFFICIALS should ignore American law and values in order to DEFEND American law and values?
November 24, 2008 at 6:19 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
GermanyXO (anonymous) says...
Did anyone watch the first Mission: Impossible starring Tom Cruise?
Wasn't there a list his character's team was attempting to sell for a huge sum? This list was a master database that listed undercover agents and their true identities. It can be argued that the existence of such a list resulted in the capture and/or identification of those currently housed at Guantanamo. Perhaps U.S. troops overseas seized computer assets that contained such lists and there were enough facts to justify taking these anti-American sympathizers into custody?
If the scenario described above were true, then would you seriously bother protesting the operation ongoing at Guantanamo Bay? How often do you find yourself asking why there hasn't been a large-scale terrorist attack on American soil since 9/11? Civil rights activists can complain 24/7/365, but when will they ever broaden their perspectives in order to support our U.S. President's quest for National Security on American soil?
To quote another American from film, Jack Nicholas' character, Colonel Nathan R. Jessup, from A Few Good Men: "I'd appreciate it if you said, 'Thank you', and went on your way."
November 24, 2008 at 6:38 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
SimplyMad (anonymous) says...
Iconoblaster - you have no clue as to what you are talking about.
GermanyXO - right on. These liberal idiots would be the first the terrorists would get their hands on and saw their heads off, islamic terrorists do not respect weakness nor TALK! useful idiots, all of them. thank God for GW Bush!
November 24, 2008 at 7 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
SimplyMad (anonymous) says...
This isnt some ACLU / leftist gotcha game, this is about real world threats. The left are always so quick to blame America first and hate this great nation, but these radicals want us and the useful idiots on the left - dead. And they were planning 9-11 since the first WTC bombing in 1993. Way before a real President, like GW Bush, was in office.
Agent infiltrated terror cell, U.S. says
Air travel in chaos after plot to bomb airliners exposed
'Mass murder on an unimaginable scale'
Chertoff said the plotters were "getting close to the execution phase."
"There were very concrete steps under way to execute all elements of the plan," he said.
The plot was "intended to be mass murder on an unimaginable scale," London's Metropolitan Police Deputy Commissioner Paul Stephenson said. (Full story)
http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/08/10/us.s...
November 24, 2008 at 7:19 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
SimplyMad (anonymous) says...
Words of Usama bin Laden
America assumed the titles of world leader and master of the new world order. After a few blows, it forgot all about those titles and rushed out of Somalia in shame and disgrace, dragging the bodies of its soldiers. America stopped calling itself world leader and master of the new world order, and its politicians realized that those titles were too big for them and that they were unworthy of them. I was in Sudan when this happened. I was very happy to learn of that great defeat that America suffered, so was every Muslim."
"When people see a strong horse and a weak horse, by nature they will like the strong horse."
---------------------
Sometimes I think the left believe America deserves defeat, in fact, the left - democrats - despise a strong America.
Dick Durban -
Compared our troops to "...Nazis, Soviets in their gulags, or some mad regime - Pol Pot or others - that had no concern for human beings. Sadly, that is not the case. This was the action of Americans in the treatment of their prisoners."
In May, Rep. John Murtha, D-PA, appeared on "Good Morning America" accusing United States Marines of killing ". . . innocent civilians in cold blood" and higher military officers of covering up murder.
Residents here don't consider the 2005 civilian killings a "massacre." Instead, they call the slayings the "Haditha accident."
The Haditha massacre, they say, was when al-Qaida insurgents lined up police officials and local men in a soccer stadium four years ago and beheaded them as part of an intimidation campaign.
November 24, 2008 at 7:28 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
SimplyMad (anonymous) says...
Jack Nicholson (Col. Jessup): Son, we live in a world that has walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Whose gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinburg? You have the luxury of not knowing what I know. That Santiago's death, while tragic, probably saved lives. And that my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives. I know deep down in places you dont talk about at parties, you don't want me on that wall, you need me on that wall. We use words like honor, code, loyalty. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom I provide, then question the manner in which I provide it. I prefer you said thank you, and went on your way, Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon, and stand to post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to!"
November 24, 2008 at 7:33 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
rollo (anonymous) says...
JimIslander;
There is a reason why the Geneva Conventions offer no protections to combatants who wear no uniform and serve under no signatories flag. It is not really hard to figure the reasons out, and you seem bright enough as an 8yr old to figure this out for yourself!
I am willing to help if you get stuck on a particular point, but, if you apply yourself you will be able to reason it out!
November 24, 2008 at 7:39 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
justjerry (anonymous) says...
I would recommend that anyone who thinks Gitmo should release all of these folks do a search on the internet and watch the tape of Daniel Pearl getting beheaded. A non-combatant who was their to do nothing other than report what was going on to the rest of the world. If you can watch this and honestly say that we treat these folks harshly then you are truly delusional.
November 24, 2008 at 8:05 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
facman (anonymous) says...
Lest we forget the unsolicited destruction the compatriots of these enemy combatants brought upon us. We must be steadfast in our commitment to keep America free. With these thugs locked away, and our wonderful warriors keeping the fight in their yards, how many hijacked jets have been flown into buildings on American soil lately?
November 24, 2008 at 8:57 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
yird (anonymous) says...
Iconoblaster;Why do people like you even want to live in the United States?
You accuse others of being ignorant when it is you who are the epitome of that distinctive quality.
I'm sure the military was fairly thorough screening these dirt bags before taking on the cost and responsibility of shipping them to GTMO.
Not much sense in holding valueless combatants. Better to just off them.
Trials, American law and values, you want these perks 0f our free society to be extended to those who would impale you on a stake or open you up from groin to gullet and praise Allah while you screamed in agony?
Your are naive, but unfortunately not alone in your misguided views.
November 24, 2008 at 9:40 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
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