Board, musicians face difficult path to survivalBy Adam Parker (Contact)
The Post and Courier
Friday, November 21, 2008
The fortunes of the Charleston Symphony Orchestra and its patrons now rest on a grave ultimatum: Avert imminent disaster through creative cooperation or declare bankruptcy. 
Mic Smith Robyn Julyan plays the violin during a Charleston Symphony Orchestra practice at the Gaillard Auditorium. Those are the options, and both mean a major reorganization and financial restructuring, according to symphony officials, who face perhaps the worst fiscal crisis in the organization's 72-year history. Executive Director Jan Newcomb, who joined the management team 13 months ago, put it this way: "We've had people sitting on the Titanic for about a decade discussing the choice of china." The orchestra's financial ups and downs have become status quo, she said. "We have not been brutally honest in a long time." When there are more former donors than current donors, it's clear that something is not working, she said. "We have to show that we are good stewards (of the budget)." Several factors have converged this season to cause a projected $1 million budget shortfall. Donations are down, ticket sales (both subscription and single-ticket) are down, and income from two endowments is down because of market losses. The CampaignThe CSO's annual campaign will run through May 30. More Info: For more information about tickets or donating online, go to CSO web site Mail contributions to: Charleston Symphony Orchestra The severe economic downturn has caused or exacerbated these problems, Newcomb said. Making matters worse is the fact that wages and benefits for the core musicians make up 51 percent of the annual budget, but when conductors' salaries, extra musicians, guest artist fees, travel and other expenses are added, that figure rises to 70 percent, Newcomb said. This can leave insufficient maneuvering room if the budget needs adjustment, she said. "It's not a rogue wave," Newcomb said. "It's a series of rogue waves." To get out of the rough surf, the symphony has set two broad goals. First is to stabilize this year's operation through emergency fundraising — $250,000 by Jan 1. Next year, some municipal funds from the city of Charleston and town of Kiawah Island are expected to become available, even though that won't be enough to make payroll for January. Then comes development of a long-term plan. This effort includes bolstering two endowments managed by the Coastal Community Foundation, cutting costs and redefining concert programming and marketing initiatives. The symphony is the largest performing arts organization in the state, but it should be smaller, CSO board President Ted Legasey said. The annual budget of $2.9 million ought to be more like $2.3 million, he said. Take in the SymphonyCritical to achieving these goals is a renegotiated contract with the musician's union, Legasey and Newcomb said. Meetings were held this week to find a solution. On Monday, Legasey asked the union to reopen the contract, saying an immediate fix was essential and that "everything is on the table" for consideration in addressing long-term issues. If the renegotiation fails and the symphony runs out of money, it will signify a breach of contract, forcing the organization into Chapter 11 bankruptcy, Newcomb said. Bankruptcy would then obligate the parties to renegotiate and restructure, except musicians would not be paid during this process, she said. Representatives of Local 502 of the American Federation of Musicians could not be reached Thursday, but symphony officials said they expected to get an answer on how to proceed with the union soon. Kate Prescott, a consumer research consultant who has worked with many orchestras, including the Charleston Symphony, said financial strain is an unfortunate mainstay of performing arts groups, which too often rely on benevolent donors and patrons to attend concerts and bail out the organization when it gets into trouble. Previous storiesFund drive warms up, published 11/20/08 $20,000 is music to orchestra's ears, published 11/19/08 CSO feels pinch; Board president shocks some with news that $250,000 needed to get through December, published 11/18/08 The Erie Philharmonic in Pennsylvania nearly collapsed three years ago, she said. Its audience was small, its staff and board in disarray. To turn things around, they found new board members, contracted with an outside marketing agency and hired a new music director. "They made a wholesale change in a year," she said, "and sales turned around with it." The situation in New Orleans was a little different. In 1990, the old symphony folded, but a group of determined musicians re-established the ensemble, with help from the community. It was a musician-owned, musician-run orchestra whose managers did everything: balance the books, sell tickets, market concerts, conduct and play, Mollere said. Little by little, they hired staff and a music director but maintained a high level of control. Musicians sat on every committee and held seats on the board. When Hurricane Katrina blew through in 2005, members of the Louisiana Philharmonic were scattered far and wide, and it looked like the orchestra was doomed, said Barbara Mollere, its executive director. It was the second time disaster had struck. After Katrina, the musicians worked hard, often from other cities and with support from other communities and arts organizations, to get the Louisiana Philharmonic back together. They succeeded because New Orleans demanded it, Mollere said. Musicians play an active role in the management of the Orlando Philharmonic, too, according to Executive Director David Schillhammer. Five musicians are part of the administrative staff and musicians comprise 25 percent of the board. The income produced by a healthy endowment can serve as a relatively stable funding source and make the orchestra less susceptible to short-term economic trends, he said. Charleston Symphony's endowment balance was $1.1 million at the beginning of the fiscal year, and the annual 4 percent draw was $45,000, significantly lower than other orchestras in the same category. The Madison Symphony Orchestra in Wisconsin receives $177,000 annually from an endowment of $15 million, according to public records. The Richmond Symphony in Virginia receives $400,000 annually from its $10 million endowment. Newcomb said that the local symphony relies on $1.5 million in contributions each year, and that major declines in giving have prompted an emergency fundraising campaign. By Thursday, more than $30,000 had been raised in a telephone blitz. Legasey called the crisis a "perfect storm" that no one saw coming. "Without the perfect storm it would have just been a steep uphill climb," he said. David Stahl, music director of the symphony, said from Munich on Thursday that the budget crunch is far from an isolated event, and not unique to orchestras and other arts organizations, but that major changes need to be made in Charleston. He said a regional strategy might enable the symphony to extend its reach, develop new revenue streams outside the Charleston market and boost its influence in the South. To get there, though, the organization needs an infusion of funds. "But we also need an infusion of belief." Spoleto Festival USA, which got its start in Charleston in 1977, sparked a cultural renaissance, Stahl said. "The arts was the blood transfusion Charleston needed," he said. It helped rejuvenate a troubled city and whetted the appetite for more culture. Sustaining the arts, though, takes an especially strong commitment from the community since the Lowcountry boasts no Fortune 500 corporations that can afford to make significant regular donations. "Do the people really care whether there's a first-class orchestra or not?" Stahl asked. "You can have it here, but you have to pay for it." And if the orchestra failed to survive? "Charleston would lose its heart," he said. Reach Adam Parker at aparker@postandcourier.com or 937-5902. Editor's note: Earlier versions of this story needed clarification with regard to the amount of the CSO's budget that goes to wages and benefits for its musicians. |
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Posted by charleston1960 on November 21, 2008 at 8:02 a.m. (Suggest removal)
It appears another Union is going to assist in the failure of an organization. They CSO is basically in the same boat as the automakers. Money is short because of the economy and high wages negotiations from Union demands. How soon people forget Georgetown Steel. The company told the Union the money was short. The Union still went on strike for more pay. The results were as predicted: the Union won, the money was short, the company filed bankruptcy, the company closed, the people were out of work, many families had no income and the Union leaders still had their paid job. The musicians union has not responded when they should have already moved to the plate and to discuss options.
If you spread the CSO annual budget, that is allocated for salary, equally between the 46 salaried musicians, they would each get 44,000 a year. I know that some make more than others. But if the CSO folds, they get zero. Wouldn’t take me long to figure out what the Union should be working on with the board! But then again, greed is all around this economy!
Posted by SCgal on November 21, 2008 at 8:13 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Come on everybody-->
pulled together to support the arts in Charleston!
Awesome gifts for the holidays
http://csolinc.org/agora/agora.cgi?cart_...
Cool car give away
http://csolinc.org/agora/agora.cgi?cart_...
The community came come together on this and show support!!!
Posted by suec on November 21, 2008 at 8:17 a.m. (Suggest removal)
How many stories is Post Courier gonna write about this?
Seems I have already seen 2 prior to this one.
Posted by charlestonscman on November 21, 2008 at 8:27 a.m. (Suggest removal)
It is time for them to face reality just like the rest of us do. If you can't afford to exist then you don't.
Many times this can be the story of Charleston. We think we should be able to afford something but in reality we just can't.
The area is too small to try and support soooo many organizations and sports teams.
Posted by B_Fwank on November 21, 2008 at 8:47 a.m. (Suggest removal)
This is a big waste of money, if enough people want to see these musicians play, they would pay for it by attending the concerts.
Why should the tax payers be forced to support this? Spare me the "arts are important crap" think of the kids that could be fed with this money...!
Posted by musicpaladin2007 on November 21, 2008 at 9:12 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I'm not even going to merit a response to that B_Fwank. That is a very ignorant and limited worldview you have there.
The arts ARE important and I can rattle off a million reasons why.
I bet you go to see athletic teams regularly. That in my mind is more of a waste of money then doing something intellectually stimulating and culturally enriching. But we're not going to go there.
Posted by B_Fwank on November 21, 2008 at 9:26 a.m. (Suggest removal)
If the arts are that important, why does forced support through tax dollar confiscation have to support them?
Athletic teams and sports in general are supported by what is called supply and demand, people want to see them, so they pay money of their own free will.
If enough people want to support the arts, than the money will be there.
Posted by SCgal on November 21, 2008 at 9:32 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I found the December schedule!!
http://www.charlestonsymphony.com/calend...
Posted by charlestonscman on November 21, 2008 at 9:35 a.m. (Suggest removal)
paladian2007 that is your choice not to support athletics. and it it Fwank's choice not to support the symphony.
We don't deny the arts are important but it does appear that enough people and companies in the lowcounty don't feel that it is important to support it.
Would you support the stingrays if I needed you to?
One reason that the common man, myself, doesn't support the symphony is because it is stuffy and not my cup of tea. In addition, I find the people very elitist and you have helped confirm my stance.
Posted by B_Fwank on November 21, 2008 at 9:38 a.m. (Suggest removal)
"...ignorant and limited worldview..." ahh the typical liberal responce, label someone that disagrees with your limited local view, and try to shut them up.
I am sure there are many well to do music lovers that would be happy donating money to support the arts.
Good luck. Its funny that when tax money gets tight, useless things tend to slip in priority. Useless to those that have to support them by being forced to pay for them.
I think I would rather spend that money supporting Law Enforcement, or food charities.
Posted by btwisay on November 21, 2008 at 9:41 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I don't understand why there are all these articles on the symphony. The symphony does not make this whole town - it is not the heart - there are so many other arts organizations, arts galleries, and non-profits here that make up the heart of this town. Everyone is struggling, so why is one organization getting all this attention?
And another thing, I looked on the symphony website to see if there were any concerts I could get excited about and go to and there wasn't one I wanted to be at. If no one is coming to the concerts, the programming has to change. It is an obvious problem. I don't want the classical symphony to go away, but there needs to be more "pop" concerts that will attract a bigger audience. Movie-themed concerts, an 80s concert, or something fun like that. I know musicians hate to do that, but its part of being a symphony. The classical stuff just doesn't bring in big audiences anymore.
Posted by SCgal on November 21, 2008 at 9:42 a.m. (Suggest removal)
The Causual Classic Series would be an interesting introduction to the CSO!
Sounds like CSO may need to check out the locals and be able to offer a nice variety of concerts that is appealing to many and get away from that "stuffy and airy" stereo-type though process~
4. What is the appropriate dress?
Above all, we want your evening out to be as fun and comfortable as possible. We have found that most concertgoers dress as they would if they were going out to dinner or church. Some patrons wear coats and ties or dresses; others business casual. Dress up or down, whichever is your preference. CSO also offers a New Casual Classics series that is specifically geared to be less formal. Even our maestro and musicians have shed their formal attire and have donned colorful casual duds for these concerts!
Posted by tgr83 on November 21, 2008 at 9:46 a.m. (Suggest removal)
all i can say is, based on some of the other comments written here, i never cease to be amazed by how some people honestly don't see the value and impact of the arts in our society....i'm just dumbfounded.
Posted by geekboy on November 21, 2008 at 9:50 a.m. (Suggest removal)
"I'm not even going to merit a response to that B_Fwank."
LOL... yet you responded. Wow, your self-importance is stunning.
"The arts ARE important and I can rattle off a million reasons why."
OK...This should be fun. Let's hear some of them.
Posted by tgr83 on November 21, 2008 at 9:53 a.m. (Suggest removal)
let me go ahead and say this, though....charlestonscman, i think you have a very valid point. i love music and i love sports, so i attend events of both kinds regularly and my hard-earned money goes toward keeping those things going. i wish that more people would develop an appreciation for the arts and do likewise, but i agree that if it's not your thing then you shouldn't have to pay for it in tax dollars.
Posted by B_Fwank on November 21, 2008 at 9:55 a.m. (Suggest removal)
charlestonscman - "Would you support the stingrays if I needed you to?
One reason that the common man, myself, doesn't support the symphony is because it is stuffy and not my cup of tea. In addition, I find the people very elitist and you have helped confirm my stance." EXACTLY!
Careful though, using the term "common man" may bring more insults as to your IQ. Thats the way elitists work.
btwisay " I don't understand why there are all these articles on the symphony..."
Its an agenda to build support and get the free tax money!
Posted by B_Fwank on November 21, 2008 at 10:02 a.m. (Suggest removal)
tgr83 "...i never cease to be amazed by how some people honestly don't see the value and impact of the arts in our society....i'm just dumbfounded."
And I am dumbfounded that you cant make the connection between what is really important and what is nice to have. If enough people thought that the arts were important, it would be supported through normal supply and demand means. PEOPLE WOULD PAY TO SEE THE CONCERTS & Advertisment would help support it.
Sports teams that loose constantly dont fill the stands. Nobody bails them out. As for building stadiums, that should be done through profits and if taxpayers vote to help due to the revenues a new stadium would bring, than that is the taxpayers choice!
Posted by tgr83 on November 21, 2008 at 10:22 a.m. (Suggest removal)
B_Fwank, did you bother reading my second post? i completely agree; if people aren't attending, then that's that...game over. taxpayer dollars should not be spent on things like the CSO, but what i personally do not understand is why some folks don't appreciate the value of the arts at all. i'm not trying to cram anything down anyone's throat here. i love music, and if you don't, fine with me and i hope you have something else that you are passionate about and enriches your life. to each his own; all i'm trying to say here is that the world would be a very, very bleak place without the arts and i think a lot of people are too willing to dismiss the fact that their lives are impacted by it every single day.
Posted by charlestonbill on November 21, 2008 at 10:23 a.m. (Suggest removal)
CSO is a wonderful group of truly talented people. I have enjoyed all of the concerts I have attended. They are one of the diamonds of Charleston. It would be a major loss to the area if they were to fold. The arts are one of the things a large company looks at in making a decision to move to an area. It would hurt us in more than the loss of some beautiful music.
Posted by scienceguy on November 21, 2008 at 10:28 a.m. (Suggest removal)
B_Fwank:
Athletic teams in the Charleston area receive substantially more government subsidies than than do the arts. For example, do you think basketball ticket sales at the new C of C arena will pay for the $44 Million cost of construction?
Posted by B_Fwank on November 21, 2008 at 10:39 a.m. (Suggest removal)
scienceguy - agree, cut the government subsidies to athletic groups, that can not support their programs.
fine with me!
tgr83 - got it thanks!
Posted by violajill on November 21, 2008 at 10:54 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I am a violist in the Charleston Symphony. To clarify charleston1960's comment about the musicians being greedy with salary and benefits, I would like to note that my annual salary is $22,133. This is the base salary that the large majority of musicians receive. Most everyone I know who chooses a career in music most certainly does not expect to make a lot of money. We choose it for the profound impact that the art form has made on our lives and our spirits. I have been in the symphony for four and a half years, and I have seen the level of playing go up each year. The city of Charleston is extremely fortunate to have such great artists here in town making world class music. I understand that there are many people who do not appreciate or enjoy classical music, and I see the elitist, stuffy stigma attached to the genre and hope that it can change. The fact is that music is everywhere and it is one of the most basic parts of being human. I am willing to bet that most everyone alive today has felt an elevation of spirit through music. The Beatles, Bach, Johnny Cash, Krishna Das, singing in church, the list goes on and on. If the Charleston Symphony ceases to exist, it is the community that will suffer. We, the musicians, will be alright. But we will be forced to move somewhere else, somewhere where we can make a living making music. I think of the students that I have become close to, and all of the many kids who might never get the chance to hear a string quartet or symphony. These are going to be the ones who end up suffering the most.
Posted by map06 on November 21, 2008 at 11:03 a.m. (Suggest removal)
It seems that all the blame is once again going to the musicians and their union. Does anyone know that the union previously took a 1/3 pay cut to keep the music playing, and that cut lasted 3 years. This was the first year since that reduction that they were suppose to go back to the salary they had 3 years ago! And lets talk about their salary, the average is $22,000 per year!!!! How many of you football loving, trash talking, brave bozos can support a family of four on that exorbitant salary??? With a take home of about $500.00 per week just how elite do you think you could be. Big House, Big Meals, Big Anything? The problems facing the CSO belong to the entire community! If the orchestra goes so goes Charleston, slipping away into mediocrity!!! Well be careful what you wish for you just might get it, and when the dust clears you just might not like it.
Posted by btwisay on November 21, 2008 at 11:22 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Explain to me again why the city and community is responsible for saving an organization that can't manage its money? Does that mean we are responsible for saving every arts organization that is failing in this town?
Posted by guidedbystewart on November 21, 2008 at 11:23 a.m. (Suggest removal)
B_Fwank,
The other day your post came across as pedantic bombast but today you are Mr. common man. I think that you are a head case that just likes to argue. When you were RW, you just came across a misanthropic cretin which would do nothing but call others you disagreed with names.
What a joke! You are the one that actually has a mental disorder.
Posted by charlestonscman on November 21, 2008 at 11:26 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Move to smaller venues. Get out more into the areas beyond Kiawah and Downtown and provide music that people actually want to hear.
If you want to survive you may need to make many choices you don't like but you will be able to keep your doors open.
Can't half way fill the Aud downtown then hold the concerts at Memminger or the Fine Arts auditorium at Burke or Wando. You may not like it but it will help you survive. If the people like the music they will still come.
Arts are important but there are so many other arts groups that are struggling that you can't help one and not expect everyone else to come out of the woodwork.
I would rather have only 1 or 2 great organizations than dozens of them that are half done, half full and half funded.
Posted by violajill on November 21, 2008 at 11:36 a.m. (Suggest removal)
charlestonscman,
you are right on... would you consider joining our board?:)
Posted by SCgal on November 21, 2008 at 11:40 a.m. (Suggest removal)
The Children
Children are singing, playing, or listening and essential in reading comprehension.
Plato music “is a more potent instrument than any other for education”.
Music is academic.
Music is physical- described as a sport.
Music is emotional--expression.
Music is for life. Most people can’t play soccer, or football at 70 or 80 years of age but they can sing. And they can play piano or some other instrument.
Music is a gift you can give your child that will last their entire lives.
Posted by B_Fwank on November 21, 2008 at 11:50 a.m. (Suggest removal)
map06 "And lets talk about their salary, the average is $22,000 per year!!!! How many of you football loving, trash talking, brave bozos can support a family of four on that exorbitant salary??? "
Great way to win support, insults. And if you cant support a family on that salary, which came first, your choice to be a musician or to have a family?
And guided, thanks once again for proving my point;
"When you have no basis for an argument, abuse the plaintiff."
Cicero,
Liberalism is a mental Disorder.
and guided by a cartoon rodent continue to uphold the fine oratorical traditions of the infantile, immature, bedwetting Democrats. If you can't defeat them with ideas, break out the invectives.
Posted by JamesIsland659 on November 21, 2008 at 11:56 a.m. (Suggest removal)
To charleston1960: I can assure you that the symphony musicians don't make anything NEAR $44,000. Did you read the article the other day that said that Kathleen Wilson, who has been with the orchestra for 22 years, makes $22,000? I know many of the musicians and her salary is pretty close to the norm. The musicians are grossly underpaid and they are not the reason that the orchestra is in bad financial straits right now.
Posted by wjhamilton3 on November 21, 2008 at 11:57 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Charleston survives because it is a cultural and educational center. A significant part of the value of this community is tied up in the arts. It's an economic driver, stimulating commerce, tourism, the food and beverage industry and education. The presence of musicians in the community enables all sorts of teaching and educational activity. Just having quartets available for weddings, helps bring and sustain a huge wedding industry here.
If someone will drop a BMW plant in N. Charleston which stays open and employs a few thousand people, we can try skipping culture and education in Charleston. However a town with neither culture nor history will soon be a town without valuable real estate or tourism.
If we lose every vulnerable civic, cultural or educational effort here, the pickings will be pretty slim when the economy comes back. Corporations and investors will be smart enough to go find the places which held on the amenities of civic and cultural life.
I agree it's tragic that a lot of people here would prefer to live in Mississippi, but many a paycheck depends on our being something better. Our minor league sports teams, college, arts organizations and environmental groups all contribute to that.
Of course Allendale and Hampton Counties are always avaialble for people seeking an area with lower taxes.
Posted by B_Fwank on November 21, 2008 at 12:12 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Local Mean Salary Typical Local Salary
Fire fighters $28,270 $18,570 - 43,560
Police officers $36,950 $27,950 - 47,440
Posted by geekboy on November 21, 2008 at 12:55 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I used to be a supporter of dance until they shut down the Silver Slipper.
Posted by charlestonscman on November 21, 2008 at 1:19 p.m. (Suggest removal)
hamilton, I understand your comments but how much of a economic driver can it be if no one is going?
The arts are important to Charleston, sometimes not in a good way.
Charleston has long chosen to focus away from manufacturing and industry. As a result we have focused on the arts, tourism and food/beverage, as you commented.
Posted by SCgal on November 21, 2008 at 1:31 p.m. (Suggest removal)
"Charleston has long chosen to focus away from manufacturing and industry. As a result we have focused on the arts, tourism and food/beverage, as you commented."
And IMO, all the more reason to support CSO in EVERY aspect, including the budget needs!
Posted by ColdBud on November 21, 2008 at 1:46 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I love music. All forms of music. I do not, however, think that the tax payers should be supporting anything along these lines. The orchestra needs to find a way to become self-sufficient through private means. While arts are important, governments, when spending tax payer dollars, need to focus on infrastructure, crime, and education.
A person could easily live in the low country for decades and not even know that the orchestra even exists unless they happen to catch one of these articles about their financial difficulties. I never hear anything about the orchestra unless they need money. Someone is not doing their job well, yet I bet they are still drawing a pay check. Fix the organization and you will fix your financial problems. If not… it wasn’t meant to be. Ever wonder why we don’t have a professional (top level) sports team in the low country? The market won’t support one. Not every town is meant to have every form of entertainment. The NFL, NBA or MLB wouldn’t dream of selling a franchise to this area.
Posted by btwisay on November 21, 2008 at 1:56 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Well said ColdBud - The Symphony does need to become more self-sufficient. They can't always expect the government and the community to save them everytime.
Posted by map06 on November 21, 2008 at 2:01 p.m. (Suggest removal)
B_Fwank, well lets 'be frank', my comment was not intended to insult, however, if you are insulted it must ring close to the bone. Sports have long trumped the arts in funding and attendance, let's face it, there is no learning curve to following a running, passing or kicked football, or beating your own chest with the progress that ball makes down the field.
Do you really think that either McCain or Obama care what happens to the CSO or to the City of Charleston? I think not. So what does "bedwetting Democrat" have to do with any thing other than your lack of imagination, or flare for the sensational.
Since your knowledge of the arts is limited, I will tell you that most if not all musicians in the classical arts begin their training before their 6th birthday. This training continues through college with at minimum a Masters Degree.
I'm also glad to see we both made the same mistake in voting for the Republican candidate. That must make both of us "bedwetting Democrats", as well as "liberals" since you so quickly labeled me as a member of that party.
As for winning, nothing i say or do will trump the collective conscience of the caring citizens of Charleston.
By the way don't the police and firemen have guaranteed retirement, paid by tax dollars which is in the 60% to 80% of salary range?
Posted by ColdBud on November 21, 2008 at 2:38 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Posted by map06 on November 21, 2008 at 2:01 p.m.: By the way don't the police and firemen have guaranteed retirement, paid by tax dollars which is in the 60% to 80% of salary range?
Yes... they are also guaranteed to put their lives on the line every day protecting you and me.
You can make fun of athletes all you want, but the bottom line is that they chose and trained for a profession that is pretty much guaranteed to pay them well. If it turns out that they are not good enough to play at the pro level, they find other careers. Ask the average man or woman on the streets to name three orchestras. They won't be able to do it. Musicians train and play their entire lives for the love of music. Those that chose to try and make a career as a member of an orchestra are pushing their luck. Bottom line... crappy career decision unless you can get in to one of a handful of successful orchestras. I played the clarinet and sax when I was in school. Then I chose a real career. My business is thriving and I'm living very comfortably. The overwhelming majority of people living in the low country could care less if this orchestra even exists. As I mentioned earlier, most don't know it exists. If the orchestra fails, the low country will continue on without missing a beat. This just isn't the right market... no matter how badly you want it to be.
Don't blame the public’s love of sports for a poor career decision. It just doesn't work that way.
I don't have a Master's Degree... but I do have a secure pay check. You tell me who got the better education.
Posted by suec on November 21, 2008 at 3:10 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Is being a member of CSO a full time job?
Posted by B_Fwank on November 21, 2008 at 3:31 p.m. (Suggest removal)
map06, the bed wetting democrat was addressed to guidedbystewert, how about use that education of yours. And I could careless about my knowledge of the arts, it means very little to me, if it means that much to you, byall means donate some of your $$. thsnks.
Well said in both posts CB. I love my football, and with the thousands of stats they now track, I will have to go get a degree in Statistics Education! LOL
Loke I said if you cant support a family on that salary, which came first, your choice to be a musician or to have a family? Either way, it isnt the taxpayers problem that you made a poor choice if supporting a family was your intention.
Posted by B_Fwank on November 21, 2008 at 3:33 p.m. (Suggest removal)
and dont corrrecct my speeelling on the lost past! <swigs beer> oh look, Wrastling is on!
Posted by B_Fwank on November 21, 2008 at 5:22 p.m. (Suggest removal)
All you art supporters...I have had a change of heart!
After listening to The Who's - Quadrophenia, (loved Helpless Dancer) and perusing the works of Andy Warhol, (Camouflage, 1986, boggles my mind).
I am astonished!
The arts are important! Next I am going to listen to Queen's - Night At The Opera & contemplate Vincent van Gogh: Starry Night.
Posted by map06 on November 21, 2008 at 5:35 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Ok b_fwank, coldbud or( coldhenikins, soon to happen), you win!! your frank and learned responses have this "Son of the South" want to go out and buy a F-250 (if ford is in business long enough) and take my turkey fryer to the next local foot ball game and cheer the "yearning nations blueeyed pride" on. Enjoy yourselves, you represent the vast majority of concerned citizens.
Posted by B_Fwank on November 21, 2008 at 7:36 p.m. (Suggest removal)
wow map, nice stereo typing. You are the quintessential elitist, looking down on the vast majority of Americans that love sports.
You should move to France, I here they had a great art collection before they surrendered to the Nazis and served the SS wine and cheese in the quaint streets of gay Paris.
Of course, the backwards, sport loving Americans and British had to come in and free them and get their precious art back to re-stock the Louvre.
bonne nuit prince doux!
Posted by map06 on November 21, 2008 at 7:58 p.m. (Suggest removal)
be frank, as ee cummings wrote "there is some s*** I will not eat" in this case it's yours
Posted by ColdBud on November 21, 2008 at 8:25 p.m. (Suggest removal)
As I said map06, I may not have a masters degree, but I have a secure pay check :) After the new year, I could probably throw a few bucks your way if you want to set up and play on my lawn as my friends and I drink a few Bud Lights... know any Kiss? A real orchestra played with them in concert...
Posted by B_Fwank on November 21, 2008 at 8:34 p.m. (Suggest removal)
strange choice of words and qoute....
voices and boots were much the worse,
and egged the firstclassprivates on
his rectum wickedly to tease
by means of skilfully applied
bayonets roasted hot with heat--
pretty sick map, is that art?
Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
Sigmund Freud
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TS Elliot -- Hollow Man
The Hollow Men
We are the hollow men
We are the stuffed men
-------
Posted by B_Fwank on November 21, 2008 at 8:41 p.m. (Suggest removal)
"I am gay on the outside, especially among my own folk; but inside something gnaws at me; some presentiment, anxiety, dreams - or sleeplessness - melancholy, indifference - desire for life, and the next instant, desire for death; some kind of sweet peace, some kind of numbness, absent-mindedness..."
Fryderyk Franciszek Chopin
man art is so up lifting.
Posted by berthelot on November 22, 2008 at 12:54 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Do we need a city hall with marble detailing? Do we need a city marina for private yachts to dock? Do we need an aquarium? How about a library? A museum? How about historically preserved architecture? Couldn't we get by just living in prefab boxes and watching tv? Of course we could, but then we would be just like every other town in SC. We have something special. People come to Charleston and spend good money for that very reason. It is a step above, a little bit classier than most places, and classy places have marble detail, marinas, aquariums, libraries, museums, and of course symphonies.
If you don't like classical music, at least recognize that it is the foundation that all modern music is based on. Forget what is on the program, just go and listen. A full orchestra performing acoustically is absolutely the greatest instrument of all time. There is no sound that compares to it.
The members of the CSO work very hard outside of their roles in the orchestra. They are always busy working with small chamber groups, teaching clinics in schools, performing free concerts in the community, and picking up extra jobs to make ends meet. They also play a major role in all aspects of the Spoleto and Piccolo Spoleto festivals.
I understand the idea that we shouldn't be "subsidizing" the arts, and I agree to an extent. However, I feel that the symphony is an exception as it is an asset to our community because despite our apparent distaste for symphonic music, other major cities that attract visitors ($$$) embrace symphonies and most have a strong following. Charleston does not want to fall behind other cities on our number one resource, attracting visitors. Just go to one concert. They sell beer and wine! Have a couple glasses of wine and just close your eyes and listen.
Posted by btwisay on November 22, 2008 at 7:01 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Berthelot,
You make it sound as if the only organization worth saving in this town is the symphony. The symphony alone does not attract tourists - without it, the tourist will still come. They come because of the history, the ocean, the art galleries, the theatres, and the fantastic food (among other things of course). The symphony has begged for money twice now and I don't want to give my money to organization to whom I feel as if they will just waste it. I want to give my money to someone that uses it well and manages it well. I don't disagree on the value or quality of the symphony and its musicians, but something seriously has to change. They need to be more self-reliant. Everyone is going through a hard time. They have 20,000 right now and need a million by May. If I could make a decent impact on that amount, I might consider helping, but I don't think my 10 dollars will go very far with this organization. I'd rather give it to one I know will be here next May.
Posted by alabamaman on November 24, 2008 at 3:16 a.m. (Suggest removal)
The union is not strangling this organization, they have been kicked so many times it's not even funny. Charleston is one of the lowest paid full time orchestras in the country. The budget is also lower than almost all the other major symphonies in the country. It's funny to see the comparisons between a non profit organization and for profit entities like football teams. People don't see the benifit in a symphony orchestra until it's too late. Fourth of July, that's a free show? How many people come out for that at the park. They get money from the city to do that show for the citizens, along with the fireworks. Nothing is free in this world, every group earns what they get. Childrens performances, community outreach. This organization will be here, but the problem is, how much more can the musicians concede. Remember though, these are people with families, and young persons with school debts. They will land on their feet, but they chose charleston because of the city that it is. They are not abandoning the city, the city is abandoning them if they let the group fail.
Posted by ColdBud on November 24, 2008 at 9:11 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I vote for abandonment. It's just not meant to be and it's a waste to throw money at this failing organization. If they can get revenue from private sources, great, but the tax payers should not be supporting this through tax revenue.