Smoke tax issue reignites
Number of uninsured S.C. children spurs legislative leaders to predict '09 tax hike
COLUMBIA — A study that ranks South Carolina 13th highest in the country for its number of uninsured children prompted the state's legislative leaders to say Tuesday that lawmakers likely will raise the cigarette tax early next year and use the money to provide health care coverage.
The report
Read the report on South Carolina's uninsured children by Families USA - (PDF)
House Speaker Bobby Harrell and Senate President Pro Tem Glenn McConnell, both Charleston Republicans, said they expect the vote to come after lawmakers return in January. At 7 cents per pack, South Carolina has the nation's lowest cigarette tax.
Their comments came after Families USA, a Washington-based advocacy group, revealed results of a study that found 132,000 children who live in South Carolina are without health insurance, or 12 percent of all children in the state. The number of uninsured children increased by 29,400, or 28.7 percent, between 2003 and 2007, and is projected to continue to grow because of the sputtering economy.
Harrell and McConnell favor credits given either to families or small businesses to be used toward the cost of health care, rather than allocated through a government-run program. "The goal is to decrease the number of uninsured people in South Carolina dramatically," Harrell said.
McConnell said that, given the state of the economy and dwindling revenue collections, the Legislature must be careful not to add new programs that would later have to be cut. "That's just the cold reality of where we are," McConnell said.
Support for a cigarette tax has been building in the House and Senate and the fight is likely to be over how to use the revenue, not whether to raise the tax. A plan to increase the tax to 57 cents a pack passed the Legislature earlier this year, but Gov. Mark Sanford's veto derailed it.
Sue Berkowitz, executive director of South Carolina Appleseed Legal Justice Center, said it makes sense for the state to expand coverage to children through the State Children's Health Insurance Program, which matches every state dollar with nearly $4 from the federal government.
"Not only from a humanitarian standpoint is it very upsetting how we can overlook our children and their health care," Berkowitz said, "but it doesn't make sense from an economic standpoint."
Previous Stories
Dems demand answers, published 10/22/08
Enlarged health plan had room for 60,000 children, published 10/08/08
Group pursues cigarette tax boost; Limehouse thinks 'voluntary user-fee' will pass next year, published 07/22/08
The influx of federal matching funds would boost the state's economy and help hospitals recover funds spent on children who show up in emergency rooms without insurance, she said.
A Watchdog report by The Post and Courier in October revealed that only about 8,000 children were signed up for health care coverage 16 months after the Legislature set aside money to cover 60,000 more children.
The federal State Children's Health Insurance Program is known here as South Carolina Healthy Connections Kids.
The Legislature ended up cutting a year's worth of funding for the program during the latest round of budget cuts last month.
Berkowitz and Ron Pollack, executive director of Families USA, said economic conditions make it the wrong time for the state to scale back on the health care coverage it provides to families. They warned that the state could end up backsliding in the national rankings due to the expense of attaining health insurance for many families.
The study found that nearly 80 percent of the uninsured children come from families where at least one parent works full time.
"The overwhelming majority of children who are uninsured are in working families," Pollack said. "These are not the sort of children in families who are seeking handouts."
Reach Yvonne Wenger at ywenger@postandcourier.com or 803-799-9051.
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Comments
This article has 64 comment(s)
Posted by moonpie on November 12, 2008 at 5:36 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Yep and the poker machines will be revived! Soon as the state coffers start to run dry they start re-living old areas of revenue.
Posted by NativeSon on November 12, 2008 at 5:42 a.m. (Suggest removal)
The tax on tobacco junkies should be $2.00 a pack to offset the cost to taxpayers for their excessive medical expenses which we end up paying for.
And there should be a $1,000 fine for every ONE butt they throw on the ground.
Posted by EqualityB4theLawThinkAgain on November 12, 2008 at 5:49 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I am not sure which stinks more, cigarette smoke or a tax increase. I am sorry to hear that these kids don't have health coverage; however, lawmakers should wait and see what the national government is going to do about this issue when Obama takes office. Nancy Pelosi already has a proposal that is expected to hit Obama's desk in Jan dealing with health insurance for children. If the fed's program is adequate, a tax increase on tobacco would not be necessary. If the legislature is going to increase the tax on cigarettes, maybe the money should be used to reduce the state income tax for the taxpayers or to develop alternative energy sources for state residents.
Posted by northeastguy on November 12, 2008 at 5:56 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Raise the tax to at least $1.00, more like $2 or $3, smokers don't contribute anything to the state but they cost other taxpayers a fortune especially in uncovered health costs. We cut health care for kids, higher education and other programs needed to advance SC, for what and at what cost, so the kids can buy cheap smokes and drop out of school. SC needs to get it's priorities straight. Heck, make the tax $5 a pack and fund the needed programs of the state.
Posted by ColdBud on November 12, 2008 at 7:19 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Blah Blah Blah... yes, tax smokers so that they have to pay for the health care of families that had babies they cannot afford to raise properly. Of Course, those babies then go on to misuse welfare, use drugs, deal drugs, commit burglaries and murders, tie up our court system and over crowd our prisons... yea, smokers are a much bigger threat to your safety and health... Sheesh. The ignorance. Go ahead… make the state even more attractive to freeloaders.
Fortunately for me, I don't have to pay state tax on my cigarettes, so it's a non-issue.
Posted by blackwoman on November 12, 2008 at 7:36 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Considering that over one third of the children of smokers will grow uo to be smokers themselves,let the parents pay now for the harm they are inflicting on their offspring. South Carolina should pass a law to prevent parents from smoking while driving with their child [like California has recently done].
Posted by trod1 on November 12, 2008 at 7:38 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Any tax based on consumer usage wont work unless it targets the whole community.how bout making our elected politicians responsible for the reckless spending they do on pet projects and such .they didnt do squat with the education lottery do you think they would do anything than fill there own pockets with at tax,.
"smokers don't contribute anything to the state but they cost other taxpayers a fortune especially in uncovered health costs"
so you have asked and received info on every smoker in the state to find out if they have insurance and such and how much they pay in taxes .?come on man thats a flawed logic at best.a big problem in medicine is insurance to protect from frivolous lawsuits that out judiciary system lets people get away with.
Posted by zekemire on November 12, 2008 at 7:55 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Who cares what the rest of the states do? NOBODY! What happens when less people smoke? Where will the money come from then? ANOTHER TAX INCREASE ON UNSUSPECTING TAXPAYERS! The so called sin taxes are ridiculous to start! Alcohol, tobacco and others are a discriminatory tax that should be ruled unconstitutional! Same with accomodations, prepared foods, rental car: what else will they come up with to rape taxpayers to fund "pet", "feel good" projects?? Better yet, tax conservation easements instead of giving tax breaks, tax environmental groups for each time they hold up vital projects, tax unions for destroying businesses and the economy,get the state out of buying private property to change it to government property like the Jocasse Gorges, the Belfast Plantation and the other hundreds of millions of taxpayer dollars spent to insure public access! THIS IS NOT THE PURPOSE OF OUR GOVERNMENT! THE USA IS BUILT ON PRIVATE OWNERSHIP! The governments should constitutionally be limited to property ownership only for roads, bridges and buildings required to carry out the business of government, PERIOD!
Posted by commonsence on November 12, 2008 at 8:17 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Hmmm...coldbud or cold-hearted? I'm all for not funding more social services for deadbeats but being against funding healthcare for children who had no say in the choices of their parents?
Maybe welfare kids don't deserve a chance for a healthy, productive life?
Posted by ColdBud on November 12, 2008 at 8:18 a.m. (Suggest removal)
JimIslander, I've got news for you. Yes, we are currently the greatest nation in the world, but our biggest threat is not from outside of our borders. Our biggest threat is from within. A large portion of our society refuses to provide for itself even when they are perfectly capable of doing so. I have no problem what so ever helping to provide for those that can't help them selves based on real physical or mental disabilities, but I'm tired of paying for housing, food, and yes, health care, for those that do nothing but mooch off of our government. Get that type of waste, fraud and abuse under control and you'll never hear me complain about welfare assistance again. Our current welfare policy, which includes helping people purchase houses that they cannot afford, is exactly what has led to the economic downturn we are experiencing. It’s taken decades to catch up to us, but that system is now hurting us and will quickly ensure we are no longer the greatest country in the world.
It’s not about “getting mine”. I’ve never once gotten anything handed to me from the government that I did not earn. I earned mine... earn yours. THAT’S what it’s about and I don't see what's wrong with that line of thinking.
As far as smoking goes, make it illegal! If the state or federal government passed a law making it illegal to smoke, I'd quit right away and never complain once. Are they going to do that? No. They don't want to lose that tax revenue or cost those jobs in the tobacco industry. It's hypocritical and as long as it remains hypocritical, I say screw any objections to smoking.
FYI, I hope Obama is wildly successful as our President. It’s in all of our best interest that he is. I think a universal health care system that provides for those too lazy to provide for themselves is a bad idea. We’ve taught too many generations to have that “gimmie gimmie” attitude already. The funny things is, with a universal health care system, we ALL get to pay for the health problems of cigarette smokers... and crack heads.. .and meth users… and fat people… and alcoholics. We get to pay for the injuries caused in auto accidents that result from talking/texting on cell phones…
Again… I earned mine… earn yours.
It’s that simple.
Posted by yird on November 12, 2008 at 8:31 a.m. (Suggest removal)
One of the problems for this cigar smoker for over 50 of my 70 years,is the accelerating number of caring, busybody,whining, do-gooders that expect a tax, or the politicians who impose them on us, to solve every perceived ill of society.
Lets repeal the 21st amendment. We can save all these binge drinking college students from killing their unused brain cells or, themselves.
Tax candy for the dental damage visited on the precious children who so many are so concerned for.
So what if they're left with baby sitters of questionable character while a night of fun is enjoyed by their loving parents, the baby sitter is a verified non-smoker!
Tax meat and fine anyone daring to cook it on an outside grill, contributing to global warming and creating an additional health risk by pumping outcarcinogenic smoke that could be inhaled by a neighbor.
Place punitive taxes on beans, cabbage, eggs or anything that causes flatulence in order to reduce methane gas production and unpleasant odors.
All these taxes can then be channeled to a bunch of incompetent bureaucrats running a health care system equal to that of Cuba and everyone will live healthily after.
What a bunch of jerks!
Posted by coolfreaknbeans on November 12, 2008 at 8:42 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Great post yird! I'm completely against any types of "sin" tax. I don't think any product I buy should be ridiculously taxed taxed to pay for someone elses issues.( whether it be alcohol, fatty food,sweets, etc.) I don't understand how a double income family can't get insurance on their kids. It's called priorities folks. Stop the cell phone, cable, trips to hair and nail salons and take responsibility.
Posted by Missing_Home on November 12, 2008 at 8:46 a.m. (Suggest removal)
STUPID!!!!! As more and more people quit smoking where are they going to get the money to keep funding there programs. Seems pretty dumb to fund something from a waning tax base.
As for the idiot claiming he is paying for smokers health care .....BULL Show me where you paid.
This is a Bullcrap claim to convince the non-smokers to vote to tax/shun/mock/disassociate, etc....the smoker.
Truth is, there are a large % of Iraqi war veterans, veterans in general that smoke, people who have served our country. We are going to force these freedom fighters to pay higher taxes?
Shame on us.
Posted by carolinadude on November 12, 2008 at 8:48 a.m. (Suggest removal)
McConnell and Harrell really don't sound like Republicans here. Part of the reason that Americans went for Obama is that the Rinos (Republicans in name only) no longer stand for their platform of less government and lower taxes. If history is any indicator, like New York, South Carolina with an increased cigarette tax can expect to see an invigorated cigarette black market, an increase in the crime and menace that comes with black markets, the presence of international terrorist organizations that fund themselves with bootlegged cigarettes, and as is always the case with ''sin'' taxes, poor Chicagoans can expect to bear the brunt of the tax.
Posted by carolinadude on November 12, 2008 at 8:54 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Wouldn't this tax increase be somewhat of an Obama style "redistribution of wealth". McConnell and Harrell were two ringleaders who campaigned against Obama on the "redistribution" debacle. I THINK THESE BUMS WILL BE UP FOR REELECTION IN 2010. WE NEED CANDIDATES! LOL
Posted by Missing_Home on November 12, 2008 at 8:55 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Jimislander- - - "President Obama is going to make universal health care in the US a reality"
Dream on........and be careful what you wish for.
Did you know if we became a country of socialized medicine the death rate would go up? True, Your mother or father might be deemed to old to have certain test or operations.
Don't forget people in Canada wait months to see a specialist. It is of my opinion doctors in other countries are not held to the same standards as US doctors, and you may not have any legal recourse against a bad doctor in a socialized medical setting.
So again I say, be careful what you wish for.
Posted by carolinadude on November 12, 2008 at 9:01 a.m. (Suggest removal)
In recent years, New York City's black or ''gray'' cigarette market has aided a bevy of international terrorist organizations and nefarious elements, including the Russian mafia, Chinatown gangs, the Irish Republican Army, Hezbollah and al-Qaida. In 2002, Hezbollah ringleader Mohammad Youssef Hammoud was arrested in Charlotte, N.C., for operating a cigarette smuggling ring that bought low-tax cigarettes in North Carolina and sold them on the black market in high-tax Michigan. Just one van of cigarettes making the trip could bring in as much as $10,000 for the terrorist group.
Posted by Tides on November 12, 2008 at 9:03 a.m. (Suggest removal)
A depression is coming and they want to raise taxes on something really stupid. SC is full of stupid politicians with stupid ideas with these stupid groups with stupid lobbyist.
Do I say stupid a lot? Yes. Because SC government is stupid.
RAISE THE TAXES ON BEER, WINE, and BOOZE. OH! That's right! To many Kings and Queens in SC drink. Like your butch looking SC Supreme Court Justice JEAN BUTCH TOAL!
Posted by Tides on November 12, 2008 at 9:04 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Blah Blah Blah .. less people are smoking now. And the numbers are increasing. Raising taxes on tobacco is dumb.
Posted by carolinadude on November 12, 2008 at 9:04 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Perhaps McConnell and Harrell are vying to become part of Obama's cabinet!! Good riddance!
Posted by Missing_Home on November 12, 2008 at 9:05 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Wow Carolina dude, so becoming a Cigarette Dealer could mean better profits than becoming a pot or coke dealer.
Cha Ching
Probably less chance of getting arrested to.
Posted by Tides on November 12, 2008 at 9:12 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Spot on Northeastguy! This Harrell and McConnell are the two biggest clowns I've ever read about in SC politics!
When you have a state with DOZENS of specialty auto license plates that DO NOT ever get changed out, but the REGULARLY issued auto license plates DO every six years, it's STUPID!
This Harrell and McConnell sound like Billy Bob and John Boy!
Posted by Tides on November 12, 2008 at 9:14 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Coldbud (obviously and alcoholic with a beer name) ... Are you a member of Obozo's Church of Satan?
Posted by Missing_Home on November 12, 2008 at 9:19 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Hi Tides,
I have read coldbud's post and can't figure out where you are coming from. Please explain the satan crap.
Posted by dawhetsell on November 12, 2008 at 9:21 a.m. (Suggest removal)
There is a great need for medicaid for children and grown ups. If we have a sin tax on cigarettes and alcohol to pay for the 4 to 1 federal matching funds,its a no brainer. Most of the people on medicaid smoke,drink acohol and do drugs. Let them pay for their health insurance by the taxes just like I pay for my health insurance.If they did this in the whole country we would not need universal health insurace paid by the people who work to give to the people who don't want to work but want goverment freebes from the money they legally confiscated from the working people by the goverment.
Posted by wjhamilton3 on November 12, 2008 at 9:27 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Children without health insurance often don't get care until it's an emergency and much more expensive. Sometimes minor, treatable problems become major chronic health issues which haunt people for a lifetime. It's pretty clear a lot of people reading here don't comprehend how difficult it is for the working poor of South Carolina. These people need a reliable system that allows them to take their children to the doctor. Most of you wouldn't accept the waits and conditions these people deal with to get health care at the Franklin C. Fetter or Sea Island Clinics.
I'm sure your answer is that these children shouldn't be born, but God thought different. I hear endless talk about abortion, but little care for the children after they're born.
SC can at least provide decent health care for it's children. They're relatively inexpensive to insure and treat since they're generally healthy. They're parents work crappy jobs with no benefits and you don't hear them complaining much. They go to bed hurt, sick or in pain just hoping to get to work the next day. They do all of that for their kids.
There are basic things a decent society should do for its children. If SC can't manage them, we'll have to accept the consequences of dealing with chronically sick adults, skill labor leaving the state and children too sick to learn.
Posted by jmw9 on November 12, 2008 at 9:29 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Raise the tax on cigs AND alchohol. Also, bring back the vehicle inspections. Also, have the SC Lottery start up a new scratch off to promote adult continued education so grown ups can learn how to spell and write sentences.
Posted by dhshjh on November 12, 2008 at 9:30 a.m. (Suggest removal)
What a crock!! Yes I am a smoker and I would like to know what healthcare you have paid for me. I'm so tired of hearing how we are so bad because we smoke. If you don't smoke then great for you, but I can almost bet that as a smoker I have missed less days of work than about 98% of you non smokers. I'm 53 years old and I have missed about 5 "sick" days in my whole life. As far as throwing cig butts out the window then fine every person that throws out any trash $1000. I am so tired of all you self rightious people. I don't drink, so tax alchohol. Look at the deaths from drunk driving. What is wrong with you people. I guess you'd rather get hit by a drunk driver then smell my smoke. Oh yeh, most people drink, which makes it OK.
You all like to talk about discrimination. Well I think it is discrimminating when someone post a job on the P&C and says non smokers only. Who are you to tell me that I can't smoke on my own time.
Hey wait a minute, I think we should tax more gas. Look at what cars are doing to the environment.
Posted by Missing_Home on November 12, 2008 at 9:33 a.m. (Suggest removal)
dawhetsel-----"Most of the people on medicaid smoke,drink acohol and do drugs."
Please tell us where you got this.
WJhamilton3---I agree, children need healthcare.
Bottom line is I don't agree with taxing a waning tax base to provide the funds.
I say charge a $.88 monthly fee for all cell phone users, now there is a tax base that will only increase.
Most people won't even notice.
Posted by guidedbystewart on November 12, 2008 at 9:45 a.m. (Suggest removal)
The thing is that children can not work, and have no control over their parent’s irresponsibility.
If we look at the cost of healthcare, it is not just the people on welfare that can afford not afford health. It is anybody upper middle class or lower and many times the insurance is also not affordible. Many of the people are hard working productive members of society.
Last, healthcare for children does not equate to more "baby factories" and that assumption is just absurd.
I agree that we still need more reform on welfare reform, but it can not be at the expense of children well being.
Posted by ColdBud on November 12, 2008 at 9:51 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Tides, my user name actually has nothing to do with beer. It's a small tribute to my brother-in-law. My wife and I saw some Star of Bethlehem flowers at his funeral and thought they were very pretty. They bloom in the winter time. We took some of those flowers and planted them in our flower beds. They just popped up out of the ground last week. When trying to think of a user name, for some reason those popped in to my head. Star of Bethlehem didn't sound like a good user name, so I went with coldbud since they bloom in the winter. Consider yourself educated.
I don't even know what "Obozo's Church of Satan" is, but since I'm not a member of any church, I'd have to say no, I'm not a member of that one either.
Now, let me ask you a question: Are you so blinded by your political rage that you can no longer function normally in society? What kind of person are you that you would WANT the President of the United States to be a failure? That makes no sense at all. Don't you realize that if our President and our government is a failure, you lose? We all lose? I voted McCain but I'm intelligent enough to know that once the election is over, I hope our President, whoever it is, is successful. If he screws up, I'll take note. If he screws up enough, I won't be voting for him next time either. At this point though, a mature adult would give him the benefit of the doubt and hope that he does well.
Have your conversations with Jane, JimIslander and the other polinsane posters we have Tides... I'm not interested in those types of rants and you obviously aren’t intelligent to discuss anything else.
Posted by yird on November 12, 2008 at 10:05 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Has anyone noticed a problem with the copy and paste function? It is such a valuable tool for highlighting the absurdity of the tax and spend crowd that I would not put it past them to complain to the PC about it's use.
Shades of the "fairness doctrine?
Posted by coolfreaknbeans on November 12, 2008 at 10:08 a.m. (Suggest removal)
dhshjh I couldnt agree more. Years ago when I smoked a woman said to me while I was buying a pack...."(*loud sigh* Smoking is soooo disgusting, don't you know it's bad for your health?!" # 1 point: It was none of her fn business. Hilarious point #2: She was a complete lard azz. I don't mean big or chunky, I mean fn huge. She waddled. I replied without hesitation,(while roaring with laughter)" Well I can see you're a real health nut, do you have any more healthy living tips? Mind your own fn business." Several people laughed as well. I hope she was embarrassed. I would never in a million years called her out for buying a candy bar. Here the same people degrading smokers are lard azzes who are heart attacks waiting to happen. Just a bit hypocritical huh?
Posted by yird on November 12, 2008 at 10:11 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Posted by wjhamilton3;Most of you wouldn't accept the waits and conditions these people deal with to get health care at the Franklin C. Fetter or Sea Island Clinics.
==========================================================
If universal health care is ever instituted the conditions described above will be "enjoyed" by all.
Posted by ColdBud on November 12, 2008 at 10:11 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Posted by yird on November 12, 2008 at 10:05 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Has anyone noticed a problem with the copy and paste function?
I haven't seen an issue with the function, it works OK for me.
Posted by jmw9 on November 12, 2008 at 10:13 a.m. (Suggest removal)
These posts are SO FUNNY!!! LOL!!!!!
Posted by yird on November 12, 2008 at 10:20 a.m. (Suggest removal)
ColdBud I checked it out on another article and it worked fine. Came back to this one and it's okay. ????
Next time I talk to Bill Gates I'll ask him about it, and also about spreading some of his wealth my way .
Posted by ltgrunt on November 12, 2008 at 10:27 a.m. (Suggest removal)
The health care system in the US is already absurd as it is. Most people who aren't wealthy enough to have a personal physician have to deal with draconian policies, insane wait periods and frequently have to pay significant medical bills without ever having seen an actual doctor. And I'm not even talking about the state of clinics and medical outreach programs for the poor and the working poor, I'm talking about everyday hospital and doctor's office conditions in many parts of the country.
The health care system now is so mismanaged that in many cases it punishes people both for being sick *and* for trying to get preventative treatment. You're only guaranteed adequate treatment if you're already healthy or if you have a lot of money to throw around.
Concerning possible increases in cigarette taxes, I say hike them to ludicrous proportions. The really stubborn ones who refuse to acknowledge the health risks to themselves and others need to be relieved of their money and have it put toward better causes. Sure, there's the small chance that over-taxing or illegalizing tobacco products will create a black market, but attach astounding fines to the criminal charges on those arrests and it will just keep on filling the coffers. Let the people who really want to smoke that badly go back to rolling their own tobacco - then it's a win for everybody as homemade cigarettes won't have the added poisons that manufactured ones do.
Posted by ColdBud on November 12, 2008 at 10:28 a.m. (Suggest removal)
guidedbystewart, I will agree that we should not turn our backs on innocent children, but we're stuck between a rock a hard place on this one. Let me ask you this: If there was no such thing as any type of government assistance (no welfare, no subsidized housing, no WIC, no food stamps, no free health care), do you think we would see a decrease in the number of children born to families living in poverty? I'm not saying that zero assistance is the right answer, but I do think that, in some cases, people don't act responsibly because they know the government will be there to bail them out when they screw up.
How do we reverse that trend? If there is a way to accomplish that without the children paying the price, I'd sure be willing to listen to the ideas.
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Posted by ColdBud on November 12, 2008 at 10:54 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Posted by yird on November 12, 2008 at 10:20 a.m.: Next time I talk to Bill Gates I'll ask him about it, and also about spreading some of his wealth my way .
ROFL!
Posted by yird on November 12, 2008 at 11:01 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Posted by ltgrunt;Concerning possible increases in cigarette taxes, I say hike them to ludicrous proportions. The really stubborn ones who refuse to acknowledge the health risks to themselves and others need to be relieved of their money and have it put toward better causes.
========================================================
Cocerning possible increases in high cholesterol, high fat content foods,I say tax them to ludicrous proportions.
The really stubborn ones who refuse to acknowledge the health risks to themselves and the financial burden to taxpayers they want to subsidize their risky eating habits, need to be relieved of their money and have it put toward better causes.
Posted by dhshjh on November 12, 2008 at 11:10 a.m. (Suggest removal)
ltgrunt. You are an idiot. And I bet you drink to. Sorry, I hate to call people names but you are really a selfrightious ****. I'm sure you do nothing that is bad for you. I'm not perfect, but what about all the other things in our environment that are hurting people that more people do. We could get way more taxes. Leave us smokers to kill ourselves. It's not hurting you anymore. Can't even smoke in a bar, and some people only smoke when they are drinking.
I'm sure there are more important issues in our country then picking on the few smokers that are left.
Posted by WhatMeWorry on November 12, 2008 at 11:10 a.m. (Suggest removal)
A lot of interesting comments today!
* Taxing alcohol is not the same as taxing cigarettes. When used in moderation, alcohol actually has proven health benefits. The same can't be said for cigarettes.
* While obesity is a huge and growing (pun intended) problem, the detrimental effects on health are not nearly as subtstantial as smoking. Smoking is a far greater risk factor for heart disease, hypertension, and stroke than obesity not to mention overall mortality. That being said, I'd be totally FOR a tax on candy bars and fast food. I am completely in favor of telling an obese person to take a look in the mirror if he/she complains to a smoker!
* Regarding obesity and the myth that poor people are forced to eat fast food because it is cheaper: totally false. During school when no one was poorer than I was, I would buy a big bag of frozen chicken breasts, big bag of frozen broccoli, and rice and eat that two meals a day everyday. I was never healthier and I promise you, fast food costs 10x as much.
* The premise that taxing a shrinking base is dumb is... well... dumb. While shrinking, there are still enough smokers to make it worth it. If a tax causes some folks to quit, well you've killed two birds with one stone. Wouldn't it be great if one day officials came to us and said we had to find a new source for funding the uninsured because there are no smokers left?
* For those who complain that the uninsured are all freeloaders who live off of handouts, the article states that 80% of those who would benefit from the tax hike work full-time. I, too, worry that a lack of incentive breeds laziness, but I don't think that's the case for the majority of these kids' families. It would sure be interesting to see some statistics regarding more details of the employement status of these folks and, if unemployed, the reasons and the efforts made to find employment.
Posted by guidedbystewart on November 12, 2008 at 11:15 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I do not totally disagree with you ColdBud. Anyone with half of a brain realizes that welfare has caused more problems than they have solved. If it was up to me, there would be some sweeping welfare reforms and some of them quite radical. Welfare should not be a crutch, period. I know that it is not an easily solvable problem, but then again it should not be at the expense of the children health.
Posted by yird on November 12, 2008 at 11:28 a.m. (Suggest removal)
WhatMeWorry;Smoking is a far greater risk factor for heart disease, hypertension, and stroke than obesity not to mention overall mortality.
============================================================
Prior to the inception of the anti smoking movement there were more thin people than fat. I know because I've been around long enough to witness the transition.
People quit smoking and started eating.
Heart disease, diabetes, and high blood pressure to name a few are all ailments brought on by gluttonous behavior.
Society has merely shifted from one habit to another.
When working out at the Charleston barbell club in the seventies, my close friend and I both weighed in at about 180. He quit smoking and now weighs 275. I still smoke my evil cigars and am 165. he has high blood pressure, diabetes,and gout. Except for a bunch of tore up joints I'm feeling great.
Am I an exception? I don't think so!
Posted by ltgrunt on November 12, 2008 at 11:30 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Calling me an idiot doesn't do anything to forward the discussion, dhshjh. You're also way off-base when you suggest that I drink, not to mention the fact that such an assertion is completely pointless without any rationale behind it. I'm not perfect, and I never said anything to indicate that I think I am. That being said I'm also not actively trying to kill myself, which is basically what smoking is if we're all being honest.
Posted by ltgrunt on November 12, 2008 at 11:36 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Yird, there's a very good reason that anecdotes aren't respected as scientific or statistical evidence. Weight gain isn't an inevitable side-effect when a person stops smoking, and your friend doesn't have any other health problems specifically because he stopped smoking. More than likely those problems are either tied directly to his weight, which can be managed, or are directly related to his smoking even though he already quit.
Additionally, you may be *feeling* great, but odds are decidedly good that your body is not *doing* great. If you've been smoking for almost three decades then it's almost certain you won't be able to perform physical tasks or activities as well as a non-smoker at the same height, weight and BMI. You also likely have conditions that have gone unnoticed, untreated or willfully ignored by yourself because you want to believe that you are healthy.
Posted by ColdBud on November 12, 2008 at 11:38 a.m. (Suggest removal)
WhatMeWorry, I have to disagree with a couple of your statements... hold on...
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Ok, I'm back. Decided to take a quick (state tax free) cigarette break :)
I'm pretty sure that obesity has been proven to cause more health problems, and resultant deaths, than smoking. I don’t have the numbers, but I think you’re incorrect.
Not everyone thinks that everyone on government assistance is a freeloader. As I've mentioned before, if they could get the freed loaders out of the system, I'd not complain about helping those that REALLY need the assistance.
We need to tax cell phones usage. Cell phone use in automobiles will most likely result in more deaths this year than fat and smoke combined.
Posted by yird on November 12, 2008 at 11:56 a.m. (Suggest removal)
ltgrunt;Sorry to disappoint you but I am health conscious to the extent that I have regular physicals.
Blood pressure consistently in the 120/70 range, resting heart rate 60bpm and lungs are clear.
At my age I'm loathe to expect much more.
If as you say my friends problems are connected to his prior tobacco use(he quit 15 years ago) then it stands to reason that I even more so,should be plagued by similar ailments.
Posted by UrGatorbait on November 12, 2008 at 12:11 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Tax smokers, it bugs the heck out of them. It some how impinges on one of their apparent constitutionally mandated freedoms to smoke.
Posted by WhatMeWorry on November 12, 2008 at 12:13 p.m. (Suggest removal)
yird - your anecdote is meaningless. Science and statistics come from real research. But it's worthwhile mentioning that you claim to only smoke cigars (I think). While cigars certainly put you at risk for certain types of head-neck cancers, they are not as risky as cigarettes.
ColdBud:
CDC statistics: "Results show that during 1995--1999, smoking caused approximately 440,000 premature deaths in the United States annually [out of about 2.5 million deaths]and approximately $157 billion in annual health-related economic losses."
A recent report claims the deaths related to obesity to be 365,000 (JAMA 2005; 293:298). (In the ballpark, but not as bad as smoking.)
Other CDC statistics say that about 20,000 deaths are related to alcohol, 44,000 from automobile accidents and about 30,000 from firearms. As you can see, these don't come close to smoking. (Someone mentioned more specifically auto accidents from cell phones... I agree SC should catch up with the rest of the country and ban talking on cell phones while driving unless using a hands-free device, but it's not a significant cause of mortality.)
Posted by geekboy on November 12, 2008 at 12:43 p.m. (Suggest removal)
"Also, have the SC Lottery start up a new scratch off to promote adult continued education so grown ups can learn how to spell and write sentences."
Lotteries are a tax. A tax on people who suck at math.
Posted by jmw9 on November 12, 2008 at 1:09 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Ok, so, I just bought Brad Paisley's new cd "The Guitar Album". Wow he can play. Now I'm an instant fan. If you like jamming guitar of all genres, pick it up.
Posted by islandbenzbc on November 12, 2008 at 1:10 p.m. (Suggest removal)
What happens to funding for the program when fewer people smoke and the tax revenue declines?
Posted by WhatMeWorry on November 12, 2008 at 1:26 p.m. (Suggest removal)
islandbenzbc: "What happens to funding for the program when fewer people smoke and the tax revenue declines?"
Then we celebrate the fact that smoking has been eradicated and find a new source for funding. It would be bigger than eradicating polio.
Eradicating smoking would reduce the cost burden on the healthcare system tremendously and free up funds for providing for the underinsured.
It's a fantasy to think that'll ever happen, but you asked the question.
Posted by green123 on November 12, 2008 at 2:12 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Posted by northeastguy on November 12, 2008 at 5:56 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Raise the tax to at least $1.00, more like $2 or $3, smokers don't contribute anything to the state but they cost other taxpayers a fortune especially in uncovered health costs. We cut health care for kids, higher education and other programs needed to advance SC, for what and at what cost, so the kids can buy cheap smokes and drop out of school. SC needs to get it's priorities straight. Heck, make the tax $5 a pack and fund the needed programs of the state.
I have to say that northeastguy needs to get his facts straight. Smokers contribute to this state and nation by paying increasing taxes. Most smokers have health insurance, that covers their own medical problems. Most smokers go and work a 40+ work week and support their families and pay their bills. It's not the government's responsibility to provide insurance to kids...oh wait their is medicare. If you can't afford health insurance go to social services and apply. Even though something is no longer socially acceptable doesn't mean that the certain group of people should be punished by a "sin" tax.
Posted by halfsheli on November 12, 2008 at 2:35 p.m. (Suggest removal)
"Most smokers have health insurance, that covers their own medical problems. Most smokers go and work a 40+ work week and support their families and pay their bills."
Is this true? Can you cite your source, green123?
Posted by SpongeMunkie on November 12, 2008 at 2:43 p.m. (Suggest removal)
" smokers don't contribute anything to the state "
What? So smokers do not work and do not buy anything in this state? Well, damn.... how do they afford to buy cigarrettes at all? I guess we should raise the taxes on alcohol then......
Posted by yird on November 12, 2008 at 2:54 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Just lit up a fine Honduran made maduro wrapped Churchill.
God almighty these things are delicious.
I have no worries, my health insurance premiums are paid up.
Posted by Tides on November 12, 2008 at 4:38 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Coldbud is "Coldbeer"
Posted by ColdBud on November 12, 2008 at 7:34 p.m. (Suggest removal)
My my.. obsessed aren't we Tides? :)
Posted by ForPnC on November 13, 2008 at 3:27 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I'll just keep going to the Air Force Base to get my cigs and beer. SC isn't going to get my money to fund their weird programs and fat.
Posted by MMitchum on November 13, 2008 at 12:58 p.m. (Suggest removal)
All I can say is God help our children, they are the ones who will be running this world one day if they have a chance. They come from poor families to wealthy families..it doesn't matter...but they deserve to have a chance just as we did...everyone is not born with a GOLD SPOON in their mouths. And INSURANCE IS NOT CHEAP PEOPLE!!
Posted by scconservative on December 11, 2008 at 8:54 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Wow what a bunch of nanny's on this site. Many of whom have no idea that our fearless leaders will tax anything they can, taxation is the raw power to take aka STEAL from one group to give to some favoured group. Our dear leaders appreciate the disunity of the public to increase their control of every single aspect of our lives. Remember the billions of $'s extorted by the state gubmints' crooked DAs and Judges (see Mississippi & NY) from the tobacco industry supposedly for the good of helping smokers quit, that worked well didn't it! The billions of $'s dissapeared into the general state budgets and were predominately used for graft and to buy votes from the weak minded electorate. WAKE UP, starve the gubmint wolves DEMAND NO MORE TAXES and ACCOUNTABILITY FOR ALL SPENDING. The next ox to be algored will be yours, guaranteed.