City's piazzas ... er, porches, in limelight
In Charleston, name has survived since the 18th century
When President-elect Barack Obama mentioned in his acceptance speech that his campaign began "on the front porches of Charleston," among other places, some local purists may have winced.
After all, the keepers of this city's architectural flame don't call them "porches" but "piazzas." And they're most often located on the side, not the front, of the house.
The term "piazza" first appears here around 1730, probably brought here by visitors or settlers from the Caribbean, says Carl Loundsbury, an architectural historian with Colonial Williamsburg and author of "An Illustrated Glossary of Early Southern Architecture and Landscape.
"It seemed to have worked its way up the coast as a synonym for open porch," he says. "There's another meaning of that term, which is a corruption of the Latin and Italian piazza, meaning open square."
The Post and Courier/File
Charleston's piazzas are most often located on the side, not the front, of its old single houses of the 18th and 19th centuries.
This corruption came in London, fortunately, not the United States. When master architect Inigo Jones designed St. Paul's Church at Convent Garden, people began using the term for the open space but applying it solely to the sheltered area.
Loundsbury says the term "piazza" also reached into Virginia and even New England during the 18th century but gradually died off there as people began using "porch" instead.
No one is sure why the term piazza survives here while vanishing most everywhere else, but "The Buildings of Charleston" author Jonathan Poston has a guess.
"The real architectural usage of it has become pretty uniquely Charleston, and it's part of the fact that Charleston's traditions do hold onto things like that," he says. "That is a tradition."
Poston is inclined to give the president-elect a break on the usage, especially because he was talking to the nation as a whole and not simply to Charlestonians and its educated visitors.
Related story
Charleston's front porch: Obama is fond of our 'beautiful, restful' city, published 11/06/08
Charleston Preservation Officer Eddie Bello says he thought Obama's reference was great, adding "it makes me proud that my job is to help preserve those porches. I already had goose bumps while listening to the speech, but to have Charleston mentioned during such an inspirational and historic moment for our country was just remarkable."
In fact, it's mostly the old porches —those built on the city's thousands of single houses from the 18th and 19th centuries — that are called piazzas.
The fancy term probably rarely has, if ever, been used by the builders or owners of the many, many more 20th century homes built in the area.
Still, it was one of the city's older homes that apparently inspired the remark. Obama held an April 2007 fundraiser at 21 King St., a grand Italianate sidehall house built between 1852 and 1870.
Bello says had he attended that $1,000-per-plate fundraiser —"I'm sure my invitation must have simply been misplaced" —he would have explained to Obama that they are actually side piazzas.
"I would have even helped him with the proper pronunciation (pee-AZ-ah)," Bello said. "He'll have to come back soon so we can sit down and discuss."
Regardless of whether Obama does that, the slip alone likely won't cost him any votes here should he seek re-election (and shouldn't that campaign be starting soon?)
After all, it's not like he said his campaign began "on the front verandas of Charleston."
Reach Robert Behre at 937-5771 or at rbehre@postandcourier.com
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Comments
CedarPosts (anonymous) says...
Well in defense of the President elect, Chicago has porches and piazza is the round thing with meat sauce and cheese, that you cook in a brick oven.
Is it true the all the porches, aka piazzas are on the harborside? Seems that way to me and makes sense as the breeze almost always blows from the ocean.
November 10, 2008 at 3:04 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
abitskeptical (anonymous) says...
I have lived in Charleston all of my life...playing & hanging out in those downtown homes growing up & living & visiting, as a "grown up", in various old/historic downtown homes.
No one here refers to the porch as a piazza, unless he/she is joking w/ a mocking affectation & says something like "Dah-ling, do let's drink our mint juleps out on the piazza."
Porch porch porch. It is a porch.
November 10, 2008 at 6:18 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
ColdBud (anonymous) says...
I've gotta chime in with a big "who cares" on this one...
November 10, 2008 at 6:40 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
back2u (anonymous) says...
hehehehe -- Slow news day folks. Leave it to the good ol P&C to do their part to 'edumacate' us country bumpkins on the proper use of architectural terms.
November 10, 2008 at 6:54 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
islandbenzbc (anonymous) says...
The word piazza may have brought even more attention to Charleston if Obama had used it...Oh well!
November 10, 2008 at 6:54 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
counterpoint (anonymous) says...
"'The real architectural usage of it has become pretty uniquely Charleston, and it's part of the fact that Charleston's traditions do hold onto things like that,'" he says. "'That is a tradition.'"
So... Charleston has a tradition of getting something entirely wrong and then being too proud let it go, going so far as to point this out to a world leader?
It seems that hubris prevails among Charleston traditions.
November 10, 2008 at 7:22 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Larz13 (anonymous) says...
I always thought that a single "porch" is a porch but when you have two (or more) then it was a piazza. Dunno.
November 10, 2008 at 7:41 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
abitskeptical (anonymous) says...
CB..I agree-no one should loose sleep over this.
But, I find it hilarious that the so called experts are trying to call a porch a piazza. :)
After opening this site this morning, I actually commented to my husband over coffee that the PnC could save money & paper by forgoing a Monday publication unless something of great significance occurs on Sunday.
November 10, 2008 at 7:57 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mrjm (anonymous) says...
OK - someone please tell me the difference between a porch, a piazza, and a veranda.....
November 10, 2008 at 8 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
blah_blah_blah (anonymous) says...
anyone else notice that the whole article was how Charlestonians call them piazza's, but the quote from the Charleston Preservation Officer Eddie Bello says PORCHES?
"it makes me proud that my job is to help preserve those porches."
November 10, 2008 at 8 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
abitskeptical (anonymous) says...
PS...no one "from here" calls the porch the veranda either...again, unless he/she is kidding around with a mock affectation: "Dah-ling, do let us sit on the veranda & enjoy the magnolia blossoms....or watch the moss hanging from the magnificent oaks."
November 10, 2008 at 8:04 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
islandbenzbc (anonymous) says...
How about stoop?
November 10, 2008 at 8:04 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
SCVOTER (anonymous) says...
Could he have been talking about front porches in Charleston County? There are many other "Charlestons" than just the small downtown area.
November 10, 2008 at 8:06 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
eatmorecollards (anonymous) says...
Calling them porches is just fine with me. I have noticed that words that bend the tonque like spoleto and piazza have a tendency to make guys wrist bend when saying them. Yes, I'll continue to be uncultured and call them porches.
November 10, 2008 at 8:14 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
512c (anonymous) says...
how about we quit being snobby about our sideways houses?>
November 10, 2008 at 8:15 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
grannyofseven_2 (anonymous) says...
Guess I should stop calling my deck the veranda. Hmm use to call it a stoop as well. Ha-ha who cares what its called I put my rocking chair on it, and rock on a nice night too old to rock any other way.
Good Morning fellow posters
November 10, 2008 at 8:19 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
abitskeptical (anonymous) says...
I haven't heard stoop in a long time. We used that term as kids: "Mom, we left our muddy shoes on the front/back stoop.
A stoop refers to a SMALL porch or landing at the top of a few stairs leading to entrance door--so calling the large porches on the downtown houses stoops would be about as correct as calling them piazzas.
Hey, maybe we all should start calling them stoops to give the PnC something to write about for next Monday! :)
November 10, 2008 at 8:25 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
eyfigueroa (anonymous) says...
buenos dias granny!
Stoop?
Porch?
Veranda?
Piazza?
ROFL!
Wow, Thank You Post & Courier for starting off my day with such pertinent information.
Now I can go on with the rest of my life secure in the knowledge that a porch is really a piazza!
Hey everyone, here's another VERY IMPORTANT nugget of Charleston knowledge that you MUST know:
Chitlins are actually Chitterlings
sheesh!
November 10, 2008 at 8:28 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
abitskeptical (anonymous) says...
eyfig..you have that backwards...what they are calling a piazza is, in reality,...ta da...a porch!
Yes this has had me chuckling this morning.
November 10, 2008 at 8:34 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
eatmorecollards (anonymous) says...
I thought they was $hitlins.
November 10, 2008 at 8:37 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
tc1 (anonymous) says...
25 posts at 9AM on this? I guess life is going to be boring for a while after the recent past. That would be a good but unlikely change.
To stay on topic I like my porch.
November 10, 2008 at 9:04 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
ColdBud (anonymous) says...
The word "piazza" was actually adapted from an old American Indian language that was common in the low country during the late 1700's.
Back in the day, Native American Indians from the Weti Panti tribe had no plumbing. In the evenings, they would sit around on the front porches of their teepees, drinking cold Bud Light and socializing. When one of the young Indian braves needed to relieve himself, he would simply take a few steps off of the teepee porch and pee on a tree, a bush or whatever else provided an adequate target. As a joke, it became common for another young brave to pee, from the teepee porch, on to the back side of the first brave that was relieving himself, hitting him in the buttocks. The Native American words for urinate (pi) and buttocks (azzas) were combined and used to describe this devilish but popular Low Country past time.
Over the years, "piazza" came to mean any fun activity that was partaken on the porch, and then, in the late 19th century, it became the word used to describe porches themselves.
November 10, 2008 at 9:18 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
charlestonscman (anonymous) says...
Downtown snobs assume that Obama was referring to their porches or piazzas. There are many porches in Charleston. Not every comment refers to downtown.
November 10, 2008 at 9:38 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
ckc (anonymous) says...
just dosen't sound right Piazza monkey ???/
November 10, 2008 at 9:48 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Hwebster (anonymous) says...
Psst..please don't mention the "joggling board" came from Europe.
November 10, 2008 at 9:51 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Pillsbury (anonymous) says...
Ooooh, I have a couch and a refrigerator on my front porch. I like to call it a piazza . . .
November 10, 2008 at 9:54 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
RTC (anonymous) says...
They can call it what they want. I have a concrete back deck which I jokingly refer to as the veranda.
I'm sure that would really make some of the highbrows flinch.
My deck is still decorated with two kegs(not empty), left over from a wedding reception. Thirsty anyone?
November 10, 2008 at 10:06 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
tc1 (anonymous) says...
ColdBud, :) :) :) :), almost a keyboard!
ckc, :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :(, Not Funny, not helpful, not going to improve anything ...
November 10, 2008 at 10:08 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
ColdBud (anonymous) says...
!
Did someone say kegs???
November 10, 2008 at 10:09 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
eatmorecollards (anonymous) says...
ColdBud, I'm glad you set the record stright. When Etymologists study our American word origins they often get our Native American words confused with Latin or Other European languages. This completely corrupts the true meaning of the words.
November 10, 2008 at 10:19 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
RTC (anonymous) says...
CB, one's Newcastle and the other is.......BUDLIGHT!
The Newcastle is floating now, so must be almost empty, but the Bud's still half full.
They are still iced down and sitting on my piazza, veranda, porch, patio, deck, or whatever the heck you wanna call it.
November 10, 2008 at 10:21 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
ColdBud (anonymous) says...
Wow... when Liberaltime is able to call you a racist, you KNOW you've got issues. That's like the KKK telling people they should avoid wearing white...
November 10, 2008 at 10:29 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
jhota (anonymous) says...
i always thought the porches on single houses were more properly called loggias (as they are usually closed by a wall at either end, and function as an outdoor room or entrance hall), and those on the larger houses verandas (as they extend around more than one wall).
i've never heard them referred to as "piazzas" before today.
meh, it's still a porch.
November 10, 2008 at 10:33 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
coolfreaknbeans (anonymous) says...
I absolutely agree abitskeptical. Using the term piazza to me is just a pretentious way to say porch. And BTW who really cares?
Eyfig- When I first saw "chitterlings" in print I thought,hey thats not right! It's chittlins! LOL
November 10, 2008 at 10:49 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
now_here_this (anonymous) says...
Posted by Cswoman on November 10, 2008 at 9:01 a.m.
I winced more when Michelle Obama...blamed her improper pronunciation of "Nevada" on having just come from South Carolina.
I couldn't agree more.
Signed,
Huger Vanderhorst III
November 10, 2008 at 11:48 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Girleygirl (anonymous) says...
MY gosh- Liberaltime & cwoman sound worst than these folks saying porches over piazzas piazzas over porches....
November 10, 2008 at 11:53 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
abitskeptical (anonymous) says...
I like my back PORCH.
I really do.
I most especially
like the view....(except when the lights at the Joe are kept on all night--why DO they do that? Does someone forget to cut the lights off when they leave the "room"?)
November 10, 2008 at 11:56 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
eyfigueroa (anonymous) says...
"That's like the KKK telling people they should avoid wearing white..."
I have crackers spewed all over my screen.
Dang that was priceless.
November 10, 2008 at 12:11 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
postman01 (anonymous) says...
Well, now we know that Obama speaks without learning DETAILS. Not a good sign.
November 10, 2008 at 12:32 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
msplacedinsc (anonymous) says...
I know that in 71 days from now, I'll be sitting on my porch (veranda), (piazza) and smiling to the heavens because the "imcompetent", "poor excuse for a President" will longer serving us! I sure hope it's a bright and shiney day! Don't you?
November 10, 2008 at 1:15 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
SeaSaw (anonymous) says...
Although Obama spent a warm spring day on one of Charleston's most handsome porches during a campaign stop in April 2007. How do we really know if he was indeed talking about Charleston, SC, Charleston, Ill, or Charleston, WV ?
He also spend alot of time in Charleston, Ill. Below he is pictured in Charleston, Ill., on Tuesday, Aug. 15, 2006.
http://flickr.com/photos/grizzly_ligh...
Presidential candidate Sen. Barack Obama (D-IL) delivers a campaign speech to supporters in Charleston, WV. ( 2006 )
http://video.aol.com/video-detail/sen...
He has been e-mailed with the question as to which Charleston porches he was referring to.
Context of Obama's remarks:
I was never the likeliest candidate for this office. We didn't start with much money or many endorsements. Our campaign was not hatched in the halls of Washington - it began in the backyards of Des Moines and the living rooms of Concord and the front porches of Charleston.
November 10, 2008 at 1:37 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Larz13 (anonymous) says...
I was just out on the lenai and you folks are talking politics in this article????
November 10, 2008 at 2:52 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
LI58 (anonymous) says...
I think it sucks that Laura Griffin's killer is able to practice law again!
November 10, 2008 at 3:02 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
ColdBud (anonymous) says...
LOL @ Larz13. That was pretty good.
November 10, 2008 at 3:07 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
preachlove (anonymous) says...
I have a porch on the front of my house and even if it was a piazza, I still wouldn't call it something close in pronunciation to what I enjoy eating. I can laughingly see this picture: Hey kids let's eat some pizza on the piazza. Don't think so. :-)
November 10, 2008 at 3:28 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Girleygirl (anonymous) says...
Hello Everyone,
I just wanted to let you all know that our beloved Tammie had a healthy baby girl on Friday and Lovely had her baby boy yesterday. Mom and babies are fine and doing great!!!!
November 10, 2008 at 4:53 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
coolfreaknbeans (anonymous) says...
OMG! I'm so glad to hear they are all doing well. How crazy they gave birth a day apart! Please tell them I said congrats and am so happy for them both :)
November 10, 2008 at 5:45 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
eatmorecollards (anonymous) says...
Why are some of the comments missing? What did I miss? Today must not have been as dull as I had thought.
November 10, 2008 at 6:37 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
yird (anonymous) says...
I grew up in a predominately Italian neighborhood and never heard the word porch till I joined the military and left the area.
Those that had them would 'go out and sit on the peeyazaah."
November 10, 2008 at 7:12 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
LEYH (anonymous) says...
The "porches" running down the side of the older single houses downtown are called piazzas. I have always lived here and always called them piazzas. You people living in your cheap little vinyl sided houses do not have piazzas outside of your front door.
It is sad how so many people from off are here and want to take away everything unique about Charleston.
November 11, 2008 at 9:04 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
geekboy (anonymous) says...
"Why are some of the comments missing? What did I miss? Today must not have been as dull as I had thought."
Apparently, Spankerbuns, or Liberaltime, or whatever it's calling itself today, has been punted... again. All of its posts are gone.
November 11, 2008 at 10:30 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
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