Accord on illegals bill closer
McConnell, Harrell shape compromise
COLUMBIA — In behind-the-scenes discussions, the two most powerful Charleston legislators worked to reach a compromise on illegal immigration reform that is likely to make it into law.
Senate President Pro Tem Glenn McConnell and House Speaker Bobby Harrell worked to bring their chambers together on an issue that has fiercely divided the Legislature for months.
The Senate gave the latest plan key approval Tuesday and the House is expected to take a vote in the coming days, at which time the bill would go to Gov. Mark Sanford's desk.
"I think this bill will have a chilling effect like an Arctic breeze," McConnell said. "We will not stand idly by with this silent invasion."
The major controversy has been over how the state will ensure that businesses aren't hiring illegal immigrants. The compromise plan would:
-- Require all businesses to check the legal status of workers by using a state driver's license, a license from another state that has the same eligibility requirements or E-Verify.
E-Verify is the U.S. Department of Homeland Security's free, online database that lets employers check Social Security numbers. The state's Employment Security Commission must help employers use the database.
-- Fine employers between $100 and $1,000 for every time they fail to verify the legal status of a worker.
-- Charge employers who knowingly hire an illegal immigrant with a felony.
-- Suspend a business' right to operate in South Carolina for 10 to 30 days for the first time it is caught knowingly hiring an illegal immigrant, 30 to 60 days for a second offense, and revoke its right for at least five years for a third offense. Employers also would need to pay $1,000 to open for business again.
For the first offense, employers would be given 72 hours to register and use E-Verify, allowing them to avoid a fine and suspension. In all cases, the illegal worker must be fired.
What's next
The Senate gave key approval Tuesday to an immigration reform plan, hailed as a compromise. The bill received second reading by a voice vote and is up for third and final approval today.
If it receives final approval, which is expected, it then goes to the House. The House must take a vote on whether to agree with the plan.
If it does not agree, the bill would go to negotiations. If the House does agree, it goes to the governor's desk.
The state Department of Labor, Licensing and Regulation would investigate businesses to make sure they are verifying that workers are legally entitled to a job. The federal government must at the state's request determine if a worker is legal.
If they're not, the agency would make a judgment as to whether the employer knew the worker was illegal or if they were duped by false documents, and that decision determines what penalties would be imposed.
The Labor Department would conduct random audits and respond to written and signed complaints. It also would publish a list of businesses that violate the law on its Web site.
Compliance would be phased in between January 2009 and July 2010, depending on the size of the business (smaller companies are given more time) and whether it has state contracts.
"We're going to reinstate the rule of law in this area," said Sen. Chip Campsen, R-Isle of Palms.
Diana Salazar, president of the Latino Association of Charleston, doesn't see it that way.
"I think they have not considered the impact to the economy," she said. Salazar predicted that the state's economy will take a hit when "undocumented" workers are forced out. "It should be a federal issue," Salazar added.
If the plan passes, South Carolina would follow Georgia, Oklahoma, Arizona and other states that have attempted to rein in illegal immigration with comprehensive reform plans.
The bill has been passed between the House and Senate several times, was hung up in negotiations and scrutinized intensely by the governor and the public.
In all, it would also make it a felony for those who use fake documents to obtain state benefits, give victims of identity theft connected to an illegal immigrant the right to sue for three times their actual losses and require judges to consider immigration status before setting bond, among other provisions.
"There's been a lot of back and forth on this bill over the past few weeks, but we believe the end result that the Senate approved today is what everyone was after the whole time — a strong and enforceable immigration bill," Sanford said in a statement released Tuesday.
Reach Yvonne Wenger at ywenger@postandcourier.com or 803-799-9051.
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Comments
greyrider (anonymous) says...
When you're this close to a touchdown, nobody better pull a Leon Lett.
May 28, 2008 at 6:03 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
moonpie (anonymous) says...
"Salazar predicted that the state's economy will take a hit when "undocumented" workers are forced out."
THIS JUST DOESN'T FLY WITH ME, THIS LEAVES US TO ASSUME THAT BEFORE THE ILLEGALS SWEPT INTO TOWN OUR ECONOMY WAS CRAP. THEY SAVED THE DAY! IF IT WERE NOT FOR THE ILLEGALS NO ONE WOULD CUT THE GRASS, PICK THE CROPS, CLEAN THE HOTELS, WORK IN THE RESTAURANTS, WORK FOR CITY OF NORTH CHAS., ETC, ETC. THEY JUST DO IT A LOT CHEAPER. THAT DOG DON'T HUNT. WE WERE DOING IT BEFORE THEY GOT HERE AND WE'LL BE DOING IT WHEN THEY LEAVE HERE, BOTTOM LINE! I particularly like that judges will have to look at their status before setting bail. Will that make it to the magistrates level too? Need it for traffic court too. I'm glad to see this legislation is still alive!
May 28, 2008 at 6:06 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
bearjon (anonymous) says...
Instead of fining the business owners, heres a novel idea why not go to the places the illegals stand everyday and round their sorry butts up and send them back to Mexico!
May 28, 2008 at 6:18 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
groover (anonymous) says...
I think that comment is the best I have heard from anyone or any political figure. I have been wondering the same, why doesn't the government just wait till these illegals just show up for work, round them up and send them home to whatever third world they came from.
May 28, 2008 at 6:34 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Paul (anonymous) says...
Why wait 72 hours ... allowing them to escape if they sense they will be caught by the check ...
Verify everyone immediately upon application !
May 28, 2008 at 6:45 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
theronce (anonymous) says...
Here's another idea to go with the others. When they are gone, pay an American South Carolinian a decent wage for the work and then hold them accountable for their performance. That is called managing your business.
May 28, 2008 at 6:49 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
lemonhead (anonymous) says...
maybe if these companies get fined enough they will hire legal ones to work,look at all the resturants that hire illegals to do jobs for less,went to ihop this passed weekend except for the waitresses most were mexicans,asked one for something and he couldnt speak english,how do u hire someone that cant speak our langauge,if they want to come here do it the right way
May 28, 2008 at 7:21 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Hey_U_Guys (anonymous) says...
Please don't take this comment the wrong way. This is just what I think.
A bill concerning this issue will never be enforced. The hiring of illegal immigrants is already a no-no. Just because they say they will fine business owners (HA) doesn't mean that certain companies will STOP using cheap, illegal labor. Seriously. Jamaican immigrants whose visas have expired live here illegally and most have jobs working in kitchens around the area. The illegal Mexicans work all kinds of odd jobs. Bussing tables, washing dishes, construction, landscaping, janitorial, etc...
When we think of ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS, Mexicans generally come to mind. Why is that? They are sneaky enough to cross over the border without being noticed, but they just cannot seem to function in society without raising a red flag. They travel/live in large groups, drive brand new cars (some of them) below the speed limit as to NOT draw attention to themselves, and loiter around gas stations/ home improvement stores to find work. The other groups of illegal immigrants that live here in SC are more cautious. They make sure to try to fit in to the crowd. Maybe it's just harder for the Mexicans because they stick out like a sore thumb. The black or white illegal immigrants tend to blend in a little better, I guess. But ALL Mexicans are not here illegally. But it's the ones that just don't want to be legal citizens that make a bad name for the genuinely legal, hard working Mexicans already in this country. It only takes a few to generate a stereotype. I hear the term "dirty Mexican" quite often. They aren't all dirty, but it's easy to generalize when you are pissed about the situations the local/state/federal government just doesn't seem too concerned with to handle.
If SC wants to take care of this situation, they need to go to the source of illegal labor around here. Go to the labor companies around the area. Hell go to the one on North Rhett. When Iw as working on the Weapon's Station I would see LOADS and LOADS of people sitting out front waiting for them to open. Not all of the were Mexican, but about 85% or so were. I'm not saying that all Mexicans sitting in front of a labor company are illegal, but some of them are bound to be.
May 28, 2008 at 7:42 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mcdian (anonymous) says...
It is just a start.
If you pass it they will go.
May 28, 2008 at 8:11 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
grannyofsix (anonymous) says...
Paul, At my company we have to E-verify ALL PEOPLE that come in to fill out an application. we have I-9s as well as go on line and do E-Verify. it doesnt cost a thing. And you can weed out those that can be a problem
May 28, 2008 at 8:40 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
jblakeslee (anonymous) says...
I agree, It is not perfect, but at least the state is trying to do something.....
It is interesting that Ms. Salazar always refers to ILLEGALS as "undocumented" workers....someone should let her know what the word ILLEGAL means.......
As for a impact on the economy, does this woman understand that ILLEGALS send $38 BILLION home to Mexico every year? That is alot of money LEAVING the US economy! Funny she does not mention anything about that.
If you want to live and work in the US do it the righ way: The LEGAL way!
May 28, 2008 at 8:50 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
grannyofsix (anonymous) says...
Since a lot of our warehouse's are closing down here in this small town I see less Mexicans here. Some of these companies were raided last year. and now that they are being checked closely on the I-9s well now we have 3 less companies here, either they were fined heavily or the refused to pay better wages. one company were letting Americans go to hire Latino's this I know for fact because of the business I am in. Now this company is being shut down after 2 small raids.
If we put in to practice then we wont need to lose the companies I have lots of people who at this time will work for 6.00 an hour hell my husband just went to work for 7. 50 an hour after being out of work since Nov. yes our Americans will work for what they can, if given the chance. as it is no jobs are out there unless you cant speak English then you can find lots of work.
If the illegal were to come here to make a better life for themselves HERE and not send the money back to their home country I could understand it. but that is not what they are doing they are not political refugees as was with the Cubans they want to better themselves in Mexico or Hundurous or wherever by taking the money to there homeland.
Please Understand I have nothing against Latino's or any other minority group. I just want as we all do to be fair. Also on another note(siding with them ) Mexicans are not dirty some you see may have just gotten off work from the fields or from working on building a home I am sure if you did this hard work you would look dirty as well I have been in close proximity to them and they didn't smell or look dirty either I just wish they would all be here legal is all
May 28, 2008 at 9:05 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
beerjoy (anonymous) says...
I am a permanent resident and came here from Mexico when I was 14. Dad had to get an American job to be able to come in legally, but he did. After two years we were able to move to the States. These illegal immigrants from south of the border cheated their way in and then try to speak for us while giving my family a bad name.
Dad had us assimilate by first learning English fluently, then finish school and get a job. I am now here in Charleston working my ass off trying to pay my mortgage and a bachelor's degree. It makes me so mad for lazy people to cheat and then come up with excuses. THIS AIN'T MEXICO!! Obey they law darn it!!
I will not just blame the workers but also the employers and government officials that contributed. Many made a bunch load of money doing dirty monkey business, but seems like that is finally going to change.
CNN can laugh all day long for all I care, put some frigging pressure on the matter and roll with it. Trust me, plenty of people will keep up their complaints if this isn't fixed.
:it would not surprise me if they give another amnesty just so they can get more taxes.
May 28, 2008 at 9:13 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
grannyofsix (anonymous) says...
GOOD FOR YOU beerjoy this goes to show that people can misinterpret what they see
May 28, 2008 at 9:32 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
jblakeslee (anonymous) says...
"I see them all the time cutting grass and planting flowers on those big car lots. Even Lexus of Charleston".
I am curious how a person can look at someone on a worksite and know they are illegal.
(and before you think I am pro-illegal for saying that; look at my comments above)........
May 28, 2008 at 9:49 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
beerjoy (anonymous) says...
Did you stop by and check to see they were illegal?
Well I guess your boycotting won't work on the Lexus dealership since ignorant people can't afford Lexus...wait I take that back, your family probable left you plenty of $$
May 28, 2008 at 9:50 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
daleeff (anonymous) says...
If they would get rid of the illegals and put welfare receiptients to work in their place it would help. Stop giving welfare to people having a baby every year or two, put them to work, they won't have time or energy to keep having babies. If they don't want to work to pay for their babies then take them away give them to people that can afford a child and want them.
Its time OUR Government listens to 86% of the American people and stop this illegal immigrant problem. NO REFORM just get them out. Put each state responsible for rounding them up and deporting them. Let them enforce the laws we already have.
I'm not cold hearted I understand people in Mexico suffer but we are over flowing with our own problems and need to stand up for our country, let them come legally then maybe the influx won't be faster than we can handle like it is now.
May 28, 2008 at 10:03 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
DoUrmbr8888 (anonymous) says...
We Americans have created the influx of illegals by hiring them in the first place trying to save a buck thus stimulating the endless vortex that will eventually suck us up with it. Things will never be the same and you will never rid your cities of them due to political correctness.
What a crock, grow some cahonies and kick their arses out!
America is full of wussies, hippies, greenies.........
Don't give me that peace, love, dove crap.
Take AMERICA back and don't stand for the acceptance that you are being force fed!
May 28, 2008 at 10:12 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
forget (anonymous) says...
Unfortunately, this time I have to side with Thomas1776. I have personal knowledge of quite a few landscaping companies (husband is involved in that profession) and MOST, not all, of the employees are illegal. They have phony SS cards with names like Marvin Jones and don't speak any English. They'll leave the company and go to work somewhere else, then come back to the company again after 6 months or so and give a SS card with another name. But part of the problem is these companies getting employees. The illegals are not working for real low wages, alot of them make $10-$12 per hr. They CAN'T find employees to fill their need. You would think that young men(18-24 yr. olds) would take these jobs. They don't want to do the work.
May 28, 2008 at 10:14 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
eyfigueroa (anonymous) says...
Again Ms. Salazar, you are doing an incredible disservice to everyone of Hispanic descent, legal or otherwise. Do not think for one moment you will get the majority of hard-working, tax-paying American citizens on your side with that type of rhetoric.
May 28, 2008 at 10:25 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
forget (anonymous) says...
The jobs are plentiful in that field. Any of you all know of any young men (or women) that want to learn a trade, have them hit up any of the larger landscaping companies. If they're willing to work hard and learn, they can make a supervisory position pretty quickly. This is a great time of the year to apply. I know for a fact that they would love applicants that can speak English and are willing to work and learn.
May 28, 2008 at 10:27 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
beerjoy (anonymous) says...
If a worker does not speak any English you can bet he's got phony papers.
Now, don't spend money and effort deporting b/c after you enforce local law, they will eventually clear along with their employers.
daleeff is right, no more welfare unless you WORK. If you don't work you don't eat, and if you don't eat you die.
May 28, 2008 at 10:27 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
DoUrmbr8888 (anonymous) says...
Yep, they will run right into traffic at the corner of Ashley Phosphate and Stall. Sounds like a new video game to me...."Truck" (1) - "Taco Bender" - (0).
May 28, 2008 at 10:29 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
coolfreaknbeans (anonymous) says...
I like the fact that we will be able to look online and see violators.This is far from perfect but I'm very happy to see some effort.It's such a crock of crap that our economy would suffer without illegals.These illegals have taken away skilled and unskilled labor jobs and low cost housing away from lower income,working class folks.Think about it-who was living in those trailer parks along Stall rd?It had a lot of lower income families who were LEGAL citizens.Where were they pushed out to? They were replaced by a bunch of illegals willing to pay a little more money in exchange for a "don't ask,don't tell" mentality.I'm so over it.I'm sick and tired of the racism.I've said it a million times and I'll say it again- 80 BLACK men would NOT be allowed to loiter at a corner store all day.Nor 80 white men,nor 80 Arabic men...you get the point.
May 28, 2008 at 10:32 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
forget (anonymous) says...
Actually, the taco trucks show up on the larger work sites! Remember it used to be the sandwich trucks?
May 28, 2008 at 10:33 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
jblakeslee (anonymous) says...
Forget: You know they are illegal because you have personal knowledge of quite a few landscaping companies. That is how you know they are illegal......not because you seen them cutting the grass. Thomas is saying you can tell just by looking at someone.
One of the problems today is that people are too quick to stereotype a group of people without knowing anything about them. You cannot just look at someone and tell anything about them other than their race, and then we start the stereotypes. We should treat ALL people we encounter with respect, honesty, and fairness until they give us a reason not too.
I am not anti-hispanic....I do not have a problem with hispanics, blacks, whites, people from the middle east or any country for that matter as long as they are here LEGALLY and did not get here by BREAKING THE LAW!
May 28, 2008 at 10:36 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
forget (anonymous) says...
The taco truck thing I don't quite understand. I saw one the other night in the parking lot of a convenience store on Rivers Ave. and he had chairs and tables set out. I didn't know we could do that? Didn't they get rid of the hot dog carts a few years ago?
May 28, 2008 at 10:36 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
greyrider (anonymous) says...
First, I didn't know anybody still watched CNN.
Secondly, you are very naive if you think we can get a really "good" bill passed right from the start. This battle can only be won in steps. This is a good start.
Lastly, can someone please escort Ms Salazar to a padded room?
May 28, 2008 at 10:37 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
forget (anonymous) says...
jblakeslee- alot of time you can tell they are probably are illegal by looking at them, not by the way they look, but the way they they act. Alot of the illegals keep to a group with one that can speak and/or understand English at least minimally. They rely on that person for direction at the job, trying to pick up a job, etc.
May 28, 2008 at 10:41 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
DoUrmbr8888 (anonymous) says...
Ok jblakeslee,
Why would legal mexicans congregate in such numbers rather than spend time with family or doing something other than loiter? "The Group" you refer to are probably 98% illegal.
It's like they came overnight in droves. Don't pacify the true issue. "They are BREAKING the LAW"!
May 28, 2008 at 10:42 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
daleeff (anonymous) says...
If we got rid of slavery why do we have companies paying illegals so much less? Not being able to speak english, working for less money and getting a place to live, car, phone etc free sounds kinda like slavery to me. Many of these farms do just that, pay 100. a week cash (which 50. goes back to mexico) give them a shack to live in and provide transportation, phone etc. When they get sick they can go get healthcare but I was born here and can't get any healthcare. When companies hide workers that means they aren't matching the social security which goes into the fund for seniors now that made this country what it is. Not to mention the federal taxes being stolen from our government when all this cash is being floated around, no records anywhere. All of the benefits unpaid for thru a paycheck are not taxed in any way. Think about that
May 28, 2008 at 10:53 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
jblakeslee (anonymous) says...
Man....You folks sure do know how to miss a point! If you read my very first post.....I said they should not be here if they are Breaking the law! People, I agree with you on that one...get it? In my second post, I again pointed out that I am not pro-illegal, They are breaking the law!
A statement was made, that you can tell the status of a person (pick any race you want) just by LOOKING at them....all I was saying is you cannot tell if a person is legal or illegal by looking at them.
If they are ILLEGAL and Breaking the law, they should be sent home.
May 28, 2008 at 11:08 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
DoUrmbr8888 (anonymous) says...
Thomas1776,
Your statement rings all too true and it is known that some border officials/agents have been paid off to allow entry. It would be all too easy for terrorists to follow suit and indeed, what would we do or who would we blame? You can't get people to wake up and do your duty as voters.
I hear people say all the time that they don't vote because it does no good. Can you imagine how many people are out there like that?
May 28, 2008 at 11:10 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
DoUrmbr8888 (anonymous) says...
jblakeslee, forgive me, point taken.
Isn't it just odd that they hover in mass?
It is not for protection, they feed off each others experiences and learn how to "stay" the course of being an illegal.
No arguments here.
May 28, 2008 at 11:14 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
UrGatorbait (anonymous) says...
Remember all, Thomas is an uber-patriot and knows all and sees all. His word is final. Cut the terrorist schitck Thomas it's more scare tactics and ways to drum up the boogey man for people to fear. It solves nothing but would make and excellent soap opera. A border fence solves nothing. If you pay attention people are cutting through the fence with realitive impunity. A fence to stop the drug trade? Dude you watch too much TV. The drug war is another wasted expenditure of our funds and resources. Execute real solutions such as the illegal immigrant enforcement measures instead of Rambo measures that apparently appeal to your sense of big government and other simple minded ignoramus folks that take flash over substance. If the feds won't solve it, than the states need too. Kudos to AZ and SC for taking the step forward. Screw CNN. Here's a suggestion man, why don't you take your butt out and find a contractor for everyone to designate as the boogie man hang and the problems will magically disappear in your world?
It's about time the they started enforcing the laws on the books. It'll be like Arizona soon. The work will dry up and they will go elsewhere. Then we can see if we can get the thugs and wannabes to go actually work hard for their money.
May 28, 2008 at 11:28 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
CaptPete (anonymous) says...
That's ok the ones running the Mexican crews don't have a business Lic to revoke. Big builders have subs who know who runs these crews making it a three to four layer deal to find someone who knows anything about the men working in a new development.
They ought to have a clause in the new law that says if you have undocumented workers on your project's property you are also held accountable the same as the person who hired them.
May 28, 2008 at 11:36 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
singleroni (anonymous) says...
Bet most of you will still vote for lindsey graham!!!
May 28, 2008 at 11:42 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
commonsence (anonymous) says...
forget...it may be difficult to get people to work in landscaping for $10-12/hr but landscapers have to pay market prices like everyone else. If it takes $15/hr then so be it. Maybe people will start mowing their own lawns for a change...this isn't a perfect law but it is a good start.
Sadly, when you look at the final three party candidates for president, there isn't a good choice to deal with the illegal immigration issue. All three favor some sort of amnesty, path to citizenship, etc. I'll have a tough time voting for any of them because of this issue.
May 28, 2008 at 11:44 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
forget (anonymous) says...
Most of the landscapers pay market price for the help. Believe it or not, They don't get applicants. It isn't any different than where I work. I have an ad in the newspaper right now and I have had 2 applicants. Neither one wanted to work Saturdays or past 6:00 pm. Both young people, no children to take care of. Alot of the problem is that a majority of our young people have been handed everything and don't want to work hard for anything.
May 28, 2008 at 12:39 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
coolfreaknbeans (anonymous) says...
CaptPete -very valid point!I inquired as to the legal status of the workers as they were building my new house.The response was something to the effect of "Everyone on our payroll..." And implied that it wasn't his business as to what the subs do or who they hire.Thats how so many large home builders get away with this crap.My neighborhood,I'm ashamed to say, is FULL of illegals working for subs.They don't speak a word of English,dump their lunch trash everywhere and drive like freakn maniacs nearly mowing me down while driving heavy equipment.I would love to see more accountablity.
May 28, 2008 at 12:58 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
grannyofsix (anonymous) says...
Capt Pete your right about subs they dont evenuse a form of application and OH MY should i say it !!!!! the subs dont pay taxes AND this i know from experience that some subs dont pay taxes
May 28, 2008 at 1:02 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
grannyofsix (anonymous) says...
oops meant to say some subs dont pay taxes
May 28, 2008 at 1:06 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
grannyofsix (anonymous) says...
first all i am not being RACIST but in my business i can almost tell illegals when they come here lookng for work. when you tell them they have to fill out paper work and an I-9 they say they will come back tomorrow with their ID. I never see them again. i have had some come in with ID in hand. and go right through the E-Verfiy. I dont know what will work but even making them legal would be a help this way they have to pay taxes on what they make. unless they work for that sub-contractor who doesnt pay taxes
May 28, 2008 at 1:34 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
eyfigueroa (anonymous) says...
allwoman: well said! yet they still have 'followers'. I just don't understand it.
I read the paper and I'm amazed and saddened by the ignorance on both sides.
*sigh*
May 28, 2008 at 2:12 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
eyfigueroa (anonymous) says...
It's 2008. I wonder at what point will those who continue to follow Sharpton, Jackson, Scott will see them as the race baiters they are and finally decide for themselves what is important.
The idea of children going hungry or ending up in institutions is repugnant to me. However, the idea of stopping ALL benefits to these women & men (black, white or brown) from living off of the backs of others has to be considered. Something has to be done for the welfare of our ENTIRE society.
*tying fertility to benefits (not forced sterilization but ending benefits if another child is born)
*tying DNA identification to the disbursing of benefits. No named father, no benefits. (Exceptions for stranger rape or limited mental capacity of mother)
*tying benefits to citizenship status. (US born children get medical care but nothing else)
*if non-custodial parent doesn't pay support jailed on a chain gang working somewhere not just sitting in a cell costing money
This may not be the forum for this discussion, but it galls me when people like Salazar and Scott bemoan the fact that our people are so downtrodden, yet don't address the very real and serious problems facing minorities today.
A TRUE LEADER acknowledges problems, admits faults and then goes about FINDING solutions. They don't stand in front of a camera spewing rhetoric that does nothing but alienate the very people that try to help. A TRUE LEADER stops looking outside for help and looks within for way to become better and stronger.
A TRUE LEADER Salazar and Scott ain't!
May 28, 2008 at 3:01 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
eyfigueroa (anonymous) says...
early: I knew I could count on you to put everything into perspective.
May 28, 2008 at 3:05 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
SCPDBLUE (anonymous) says...
listen to what you people are saying,You are saying you have had enuff of illegal aliens in S.C...Then VOTE THESE INCUMBANTS OUT,Bring in new blood..I agree with bearjon,Thomas1776,Paul,raregar67 and others who are saying what i've been saying for years..Listen people it takes you to make a difference,No violence,Vote these PC Aholes out,the ones that say they are on your side but are buddies with building contractors and such.McConnell and Herrell are not your friend because YOU the ones who work hard for a living cant do anything for them because you are poor and have no connections.Now they will smile and pat you on the head,then turn around and laugh behind your back.Before you vote talk to the canadate,tell him you will hold him responsable for his actions on illegal aliens issues.The only way we will stop this illegal allien take over is by holding our elected officals responsable.That includes the white house.Vote,Vote No incumbants this time around.....
May 28, 2008 at 3:07 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
eyfigueroa (anonymous) says...
I'm in total agreement with you allwoman. The great social experiment has failed and now we have GENERATIONS of people who have been shackled by not only their sloth but by the 'govt.' assistance.
May 28, 2008 at 3:47 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
beerjoy (anonymous) says...
Being from Mexico and with a legal status, I would like to recruit several legal immigrants from Mexico, Central, and South America to sing up for a "YOU DO NOT SPEAK FOR ME" type of movement. I believe I saw something like that in the news, a group of legal immigrants down in AZ or TX that did the same to separate themselves and tell people like Salazar to shut it.
Salazar needs to pull her head out of her butt thinking she represents all Hispanic/Latinos here in the state. She sounds as corrupt as the leaders from Mexico I met.
May 28, 2008 at 3:51 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
beerjoy (anonymous) says...
Oh, and of course I agree with u huys on welfare reform.
IF YOU DON'T WORK YOU SHOULD NOT EAT!!!
May 28, 2008 at 3:54 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
SCdeacinNYC (anonymous) says...
Well eyfigueroa let's not call welfare something it isn't.
It wasn't a social experiment, it began in the U.S. in the 1930s to give much needed relief to everyday Americans suffering from the effects of the Great Depression. It was modeled after programs present in all of the other industrialized countries. Now it's devolved into a system which has little regulation and an even smaller push at receiving its ultimate goal. (Which in my opinion, should be the elimination of poverty as we know it now exists in our country.)
Welfare presently has an accepted image usually manifesting as the "poor black woman with six kids who refuses to work." I would mostly blame the media for this sense whenever there is an article or report about welfare it's usually people of color represented (even though last figure I checked blacks only accounted for about 25% of welfare recipients:.not sure about what percentage of black people are on some form of federal assistance). I think in the end whether or not people like to admit it or not, that stirs their ideas of federal assistance.
The program is extremely flawed, but then again so has every attempt in America to combat increasing poverty. First, we are using an ancient formula, which has only been reformed twice in the past 60 or so years to adapt federal assistance programs to modern ages. But more importantly, abolishing welfare as we know it isn't the real solution. In that case, we would leave out some much needed aid for families that actually need it. What we need is better education from ground up for women AND men (I hate how it's almost always a women's problem). Our education system is ancient in every way and so we produce unskilled workers who have not received adequate technical, academic or social educations. People are so worried about women having multiple children without fathers, well it might be helpful if we had a better sexual education system in place in our country. Some people want to say we shouldn't teach it in schools. Well, it's either teach young men and women to be responsible with their budding fertility or YOU will be paying the price later, I'm not just talking of taxes:I'm talking about our society.
In the long run though, I think federal assistance while in some cases it runs ragged, gets a bad name. There are many individuals who receive federal assistance only temporarily, get back on their feet and live productive lives. But we only hear about the women someone knew with four kids and never working:.et cetera et cetera. People need more of an incentive to work as well:and skills and also jobs that pay well. All of these things began long before they reach federal assistance and have much more painstaking reforms than just the to welfare in general. If the state gets involved in anything, it's that we need to revolutionize the way we educate and socialize.
May 28, 2008 at 4:27 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
buff_o_rilla (anonymous) says...
The Mexicans work so cheep even the Chinese Restaurants hire them to work!!! LOL
May 28, 2008 at 4:37 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
SCdeacinNYC (anonymous) says...
Sorry to continue on... BUT
In the end though, I've said it once and I'll say it again:I think immigration is more of a non-issue for me. The acutal money we spend on it in terms of "supporting" illegal immigrants pales in comparison to the time and energy we spend arguing about something that isn't going to change and has a minimal impact compared to the rest of this nation/state's expenditures.
I think those who are fed up with those immigrating legally vs. illegally need to look at the state of immigration to our country as a whole. I argued this to my Cuban friend one day, who complained about the constant influx of illegal immigrants where she lives. She was adamant that her family had immigrated her legally. I pointed out to her that Cubans are often granted asylum and legal status in America though they come through illegal means because our government privleges this group of immigrants, as we do any country we presently dislike. Immigration as it stands is an unfair system and not everyone can just "apply" and get in. It's very much based on the U.S.'s flavor of the month. In the 1960s it was Cuba, mostly because of our anti-Fidel policies. I think if there is going to be a selective process for immigration (which is definitely our nation's prerogative) it should be at least FAIR. That is to say that a great deal of the illegal immigrants who come to America whether from Mexico, other places in Latin America, Africa, Europe or Asia (being from NYC I see more of the latter ones than Mexicans) may not have a fair channel to reach the nation legally and it's not that they don't want to be legal sometimes they CANT and this is the only way.
May 28, 2008 at 4:38 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Test2007 (anonymous) says...
Jane
We didn't have the "right" to come here either. I am sure you read your history books. I love how we "traveled" here and then closed the damned door after us. Get over yourself and stop your fearmongering.
Also, if we want to grant asylum to all people who are fleeing murderous dictators you DO realize that number WILL be in the millions.
I can also count on Jane to incite fear and hatred in others. OH, and not everyone in the world does want to come here. The nerve.
May 28, 2008 at 4:53 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
SCdeacinNYC (anonymous) says...
Jane, those aren't the only reasons why people might get rejected from coming here.
*We have rejected asylum seekers fleeing murderous dictators many times over...just ask the people who have tried to flee from Haiti and apply for asylum that.
*The assumption that people are afraid to apply legally because of criminal records, medical screening and not being able to speak English is ridiculous. In many cases that is NOT the reason.
*Not everyone in the world is trying to come here and grab a job from an American...that is also ridiculous...there has always been illegal immigration and undocumented workers in the US, many of them helped build this country. Like any nation, they constitute a part of the economic system, like it or not.
*It is a "privlege" sure (so funny to think of it, since so many of us are just LUCKY to be here and have done nothing of value to contribute to this nation...including many on this board), but it is a privlege that should be accorded fairly...but it is not. There are doctors, lawyers and professors who are not allowed in the US, while there are regular everyday uneducated people passing in and out everyday legally. It's about WHERE you are from, not your "value added" to this nation.
May 28, 2008 at 4:54 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Test2007 (anonymous) says...
Oh and Jane,
I have heard you spew your ignorant tripe about how only criminals try to immigrate here. If that were the case there really wouldn't be an issue at all.
May 28, 2008 at 4:56 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Test2007 (anonymous) says...
I am beginning to think that we are full of ourselves. You can best believe if Mexico was close to another country like they are to the US,they would be trying to go there. It has more to do with location and opportunity (easiest way to get there) rather than some grand dream.
May 28, 2008 at 5 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
moonpie (anonymous) says...
Well lets see IF the incumbents win AGAIN! From the likes of these post they will loose by a landslide.
May 28, 2008 at 8:40 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Popeye (anonymous) says...
U Guys need to remember that the E Verify program is coming up for sunset in the fall term of Congress. Already Representatives from Arizona are trying to NOT renew it; do U doubt that Sen. Juan McAmnesty and his cohort in Crime Jon Kyle will also vote to kill eVerify if they get a chance? U need to get your leaders who are behind this bill to say that employers MUST use whatever replaces eVerify if it dies! If they don't the new law will be useless as tits on a boar hog.
May 29, 2008 at 12:01 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
kryan74 (anonymous) says...
Alright people. SC is on the right path. Once the law passed here in Oklahoma we got to hear all the fear mongering Liberal talk about how our economy would tank and we would have a labor shortage. Smart people wrote the bill and smart people voted to make it law. Expect to hear nonsense claims from the Hispanic Groups. Next, your chamber of commerce will file a lawsuit. The Catholic church will be up in arms and banks will suffer because they cannot give mortgages to illegal aliens.
The law will stand and all attempts to discredit the bill will fail.
Our unemployment rate dropped immediately as a result of the bill.
Also expect everyone against the bill to bring race into the equation. You will hear all about how we are a country of immigrants. Keep in mind these people have no idea how immigration to the U.S works. Also keep in mind this is about what is right and wrong. Illegal immigration is wrong and hurts us a nation.
Y'all are the next state to do the right thing. Expect more and more states to follow. Sorry illegal supporters. You will lose this fight. First in the south and eventually parts of the Midwest and NE.
Here in Oklahoma we have heard all the nonsense from the sympathizers and it did nothing from stopping the bill. Logic wins over idealization every time
May 29, 2008 at 10:56 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
BKLYNIRISH (anonymous) says...
I found this article rather entertaining...
http://www.newsobserver.com/news/crim...
June 2, 2008 at 2:18 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
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