Cross could adorn state license plates
2 groups oppose religious symbol
The Post and Courier
This proposed license plate in Florida is similar to the one proposed for South Carolina
Read the American Jewish Congress' letter to Gov. Mark Sanford
Find out more about specialty plates
COLUMBIA — The cross could soon grace a state specialty license plate.
But if the Legislature endorses the new plate, which would say "I Believe" across the bottom and carry the image of a cross in front of a stained-glass window, the state could end up in court.
The bill received key approval in the House on Wednesday with a 109-0 vote. A change from the Senate version will send it back to that body before it could go to Gov. Mark Sanford's desk.
"People can express their views however they want, on a bumper sticker,
whatever," said Ronald Lindsay, director of the First Amendment Task Force for the Council for Secular Humanism, a New York-based group.
"Once you get into the license plate area, that's an official government document, or tag. There is simply no need for it."
Sen. Larry Grooms sees things differently.
This is just one of several bills the Bonneau Republican has sponsored that helps the state use constitutional law to carve out rights for people to display their faith in public places.
Grooms signed on to a bill that lays out ground rules for prayer at public meetings and another that would let government agencies and schools display historic and religious documents, including the Ten Commandments, side by side.
Both those bills are making their way through the legislative process and are on track to become law.
South Carolina residents can chose between about 100 speciality plates, including six NASCAR tags and one for the Boy Scouts, all sorts of colleges, the Morris Island Lighthouse, even one for the H.L. Hunley submarine.
Grooms said he jumped at the chance to co-sponsor the legislation for the "I Believe" plate, which is based on a similar effort in Florida. It would not be the first religiously toned tag. "In God We Trust" is already a option. "Choose Life SC" will be available in the fall.
State law allows the Legislature to create specialty tags, or gives the state Department of Motor Vehicles the authority to issue plates designed by groups ordering at least 400 of one design. The Legislature approved the tags with "In God We Trust," but "Choose Life SC" was submitted by a group.
Marc Stern, general counsel for the New York-based American Jewish Congress, wrote Sanford a letter and urged him to veto the legislation creating the "I Believe" tag on the grounds that it is unconstitutional.
Stern said that if the bill becomes law, his group would be prepared to take South Carolina to court.
"There must be something more important to deal with in South Carolina," Stern said. "The Legislature wants to be on record saying that they like Christians."
The governor's office will not take a stance on the bill until it can research the issue further, according to Joel Sawyer, Sanford's press secretary.
"We're going to take a look," Sawyer said. "We certainly don't have a problem with what it says."
Reach Yvonne Wenger at 803-799-9051 or ywenger@post andcourier.com.
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Comments
ForPnC (anonymous) says...
Separation of church and State, folks. We don't need anything else dividing the people.
May 22, 2008 at 4:31 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
ForPnC (anonymous) says...
I want a plate that says "I don't."
May 22, 2008 at 4:31 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mac0cm4 (anonymous) says...
Can I get one that says "Ugh!" Don't they have more important stuff to worry about in Columbia?
May 22, 2008 at 6:18 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
moonpie (anonymous) says...
"I BELIEVE" BUT I don't need to wear it on my license plate nor have the state be involved. Its stuff like this that gives religion a bad name.
Doesn't Larry Grooms have anything else to sponsor? How about fix some big thinks like, illegal immigration, my taxes are to high, our roads stink, gas prices are to high, start more farms in SC so when the food shortages hit we can grow our own, alternative power for SC, did I say illegal immigration?, SC hwy patrol, state welfare system...Did I say illegal immigration?
May 22, 2008 at 6:26 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
karmann (anonymous) says...
I am a Christian and have no problem w/ folks expressing their beliefs. I don't look to the government to express my views for me nor do I want them too. They often get it wrong. So, I am against the tag. A life truly lived for Christ is the best testimony!
May 22, 2008 at 6:28 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
onevoice (anonymous) says...
The ideal of the seperation of Church and State was to prevent the church from intruding into the Goverment and visa-versa, which has nothing to do with license plates with a statment of faith. Even though our goverment and the Supreme Court have indeed stepped all over the rights of Christians. People should have the right to express there faith even if it is on a state license tag. Oh and Cold beer MY God did kick your gods ***, 200 years ago on Calvary when heshed his blood to save me and even you from our sin!
May 22, 2008 at 7:08 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
onevoice (anonymous) says...
Sorry for the Type-O " it was 2000 years ago.
May 22, 2008 at 7:10 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
trm2105 (anonymous) says...
another step closer to a fascist America.
May 22, 2008 at 7:12 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
trm2105 (anonymous) says...
Onevoice, that's just the attitude Coldbeer meant to expose and you walked right into it. It's like a bunch of snotty nosed kids on the playground, "My dad is stronger than you're dad." Ridiculous. Grow up.
May 22, 2008 at 7:18 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
berthelot (anonymous) says...
So the right to lifers were able to submit one that will be available this fall. Does that mean that we can all submit our ideas for vanity plates? Here is mine for Native Americans:
"I believe (you are standing on my land)"
May 22, 2008 at 7:24 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
joldham (anonymous) says...
We need to tell the group from New York that THEY HAVE MORE THINGS TO WORRY ABOUT than to worry about what is on a license plate in south carolina. if they sue us that's one jury I want to set on.
GOV, SANFORD listen to South Carolinians NOT New Yorkers!!!!
May 22, 2008 at 7:28 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Riptide (anonymous) says...
I agree with comrade Harpo. We don't need religion especially Christianity on our government made license plates. The separation of church and state is not found in our constitution or the bill of rights but why bother with small details. Our supreme court judges knows what's best for the masses. As soon as we abolish our legislature and turn over the making of our laws to the judges and the ACLU the better for this country.
May 22, 2008 at 7:29 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Hey_U_Guys (anonymous) says...
What about specialty plates for the atheists and agnostics?
May 22, 2008 at 7:38 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
onevoice (anonymous) says...
Matthew 5:11 "Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me". Thanks trm!
May 22, 2008 at 8:05 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
ChrisPia (anonymous) says...
I for one will probably get one of these plates. I see no problem if it is Voluntary....I see a problem If It mandatory though.
I Do However see a problem for Law enforcement in trying to figure out what state all these vanity plates come from, and I see a problem for Dispatchers in figuring out how to run all these vanity plates in the system.
May 22, 2008 at 8:17 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
auger (anonymous) says...
I want a plate with "Pro-Choice" and a pentacle on it.
May 22, 2008 at 8:22 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
greyrider (anonymous) says...
I don't need a cross on my license plate. My faith will not suffer without it. However, I understand the real motivation behind this. There is far too much anti-Christian hostility in government today and this is nothing more than a knee-jerk reaction to that. Let's get something straight, there is no separation of church and state in the Constitution. Thomas Jefferson was not at the Constitutional Convention and HE HIMSELF wrote that his letter to the Danbury Baptists should NEVER be used to interpret the Constitution. Ironically, it was Jefferson's idea to put the Bible into the American Public school system to begin with. Even though Jefferson denied the deity of Jesus, he liked Jesus' teachings and thought they would make Americans better people. This license plate proposal really is kind of silly. If we could get rid of the paranoia on the left, these situations wouldn't even come up. Putting up displays of the Ten Commandments, letting government employees wear little gold crosses, letting teachers silently keep a Bible on their desk, etc etc DOES NOT force anybody to do anything. This is America. Let people live their lives, and we won't see crazy ideas like this.
May 22, 2008 at 8:24 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Tammie (anonymous) says...
I am a Christian but I personally dont think I need a license tag to show that I am a believer. Like ChrisPia said, if it's voluntary like the school tags (Clemson, Furman, etc), then fine, allow us to choose. I just don't believe in what may come across to some as "forcing" beliefs. I wont sit here and drill my teachings into your head out of respect for you and your beliefs and I expect the same.
May 22, 2008 at 8:34 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
jblakeslee (anonymous) says...
seperation of church and state is not a catch phrase to REPRESS the free expression of religion. It was intended to prohibit the GOVT from stopping the free EXPRESSION of ANY religion......If people want a I BElIEVE plate that is fine, just as it would be fine if they want a I DONT BELIEVE plate.....seperation of church and state is used way to much now days as a tool to Repress the free expression a religion.
May 22, 2008 at 8:35 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Riptide (anonymous) says...
Comrades:
I hate to play a cruel joke on you guys but if you look at our constitution or bill of rights there is nothing in there that makes any reference to the separation of church and state. That ruling started with the supreme court judge Hugo Black (an appointee by the liberal Franklin D. Roosevelt) and by the way Hugo Black was also a former member of the KKK. Hugo Black wrote the brief base on a letter that Thomas Jefferson wrote to the Danbury Baptists. Since the 1947 ruling the Orwellian lie that is common in our culture of the separation of church and state has become truth now. Again, show me where in our constitution or bill of rights the separation of church and state. You won't find it. Another big lie from the liberals.
May 22, 2008 at 8:42 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Tammie (anonymous) says...
Newt said: "Wait until the Flying Spaghetti Monster finds out about this!"
OMG, what the heck??? Lmao!! Thanks for an early morning laugh!
May 22, 2008 at 8:48 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
greyrider (anonymous) says...
Newt, I, and most Christians are against the idea of "teaching" the Christian faith in public schools. BTW, that's impossible with 38,000 different denominations. However, there has been some ridiculous nonsense that has gone on. A 6 year old girl SILENTLY bowed her head and prayed before eating lunch. She was pulled out of her seat, taken to the principal's office and her mother was called and told to come to the school immediately. One teacher was fired for wearing a ONE INCH gold cross. Another teacher was threatened with being fired because she was told that by wearing a small Santa Claus pin, she was establishing the Catholic Church because old Santa comes from the story of St Nicholas. Students are banned from praying on their own at their graduation. Valedictorians are told not to mention Jesus by name during THEIR OWN speech. The NCAA once tried to ban football players from kneeling in the end zone after a touchdown. And someone please tell me how a display of the Ten Commandments is such a traumatizing matter? Does a stone tablet really threaten anybody? These things need to stop. If they do, you won't see legislators proposing things like this. Live and let live.
May 22, 2008 at 9:09 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Tammie (anonymous) says...
Newt, thanks for that website, I'm saving it to my favorites. This, so far, is my favorite quote:
2 verbtea.: I am the Flying Spaghetti Monster. You shall have no other monsters before me. (Afterwards is OK; just use protection.)
*attempts not to spit out water while reading*
May 22, 2008 at 9:17 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
zoomru (anonymous) says...
Folks we are one STATE. The pursuit of freedom in life, business and all other facets is the kernel or seed to the american experience. SCDOT is a state agency and should be able to decide the validity of these plate designs instead of all this wrangling in the statehouse? Even with no dissention in the VOTE, the time could have been better spent? Couldn't it? There are more pressing issues? Right?
(Early & Coldbeer..yawn!)
1) What about closing our state's landfills and turning all our trash into energy to be sold?
2) Providing the citizens of this state a mapped out implementation plan for elevated mass transit? Are we going to continue to PAVE without vision?
3) If Attorney Gen. McMaster can't enforce laws and stop business owners from hiring visiting immigrants(tourists that work)by fining them and shutting down these businesses, we need to plan on being able to move tourists and legitimant workers, because they will not want to drive on our over crowded roads with illegals that don't have driving permits!
4) Plus this story here ...
http://www.charleston.net/news/2008
/may/22/republicans_seeking_state
_house_seat_dis41766/
demonstrates precisely what our #1 Issue is in the comment SECTION!, that is not being addressed!
May 22, 2008 at 9:34 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
meridian (anonymous) says...
If the Christians feel the need to show off on street corners their Pharisee-like superiority in belief, sure, why not. Sometimes we just have to pander to those people and accommodate their wishes so that they will leave us alone and not act as if a plain, regular license plate is horrific discrimination. I'd say we should open it up to put on license plates a crescent and star or a Star of David or a yin-yang or a pentagram for the adherents to those religions, but the thing is that most other religions don't see the need to parade their symbolism around as if it were the logo of their favorite football team.
May 22, 2008 at 9:35 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
greyrider (anonymous) says...
Newt, religion shouldn't be pushed and it shouldn't be banned. It's impossible to know me and not know I'm a Christian. I wear a lot of Christian T-shirts and sweatshirts, essentially advertising my faith. But I leave it at that. If people want to approach me and they bring up the subject, I'll gladly witness my faith. But I never go around grabbing people and forcing them to hear about Jesus. I actually get irritated by people like that. But Christianity is part of the American Heritage. Leave the symbols and Ten Commandment displays up QUIETLY. That's the key. That way people can enjoy them or ignore them. BTW Newt, NO ONE should force doctrine on children. That gets into the area of "raising" children, which is the parents' responsibility. We're in agreement there.
May 22, 2008 at 9:43 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
summerville_guy (anonymous) says...
There is already a SC license plate for "Secular Humanists of the Lowcountry." It says "In Reason We Trust." If you don't believe me, it is the 35th plate down on this site:
http://www.scdmvonline.com/VehPlateSp...
So, if there can be a plate in SC that blatantly and proudly takes God out of a phrase used on our currency, then I see no problem with having an "I believe" plate.
May 22, 2008 at 9:49 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
scienceguy (anonymous) says...
Moonpie:
Larry Grooms does "have better things to do." Or at least his friends think so. Last year he slipped an $800,000 secret earmark into the state budget for Heritage Community Services so that organization could continue to teach its unmonitored, unapproved, and unproven program in South Carolina.
At the end of the day, all this is just a distraction from our current financial woes. Berkeley County has all kinds of fiscal problems, but Mr. Grooms passes some "cultural legislation" and suddenly he gets re-elected. Because no one thinks to ask whether the $800,000 could have been better spent reducing the dropout rate or providing bullet proof vests for police officers or more DSS Child abuse case workers or:.you get my point I am sure.
My friends in the ACLU assure me that this legislation will help insure that they remain in business. And whether the DMV wants to get involved in this is questionable after how much the last vanity plates go-around cost them. Click on to http://pacer.ca4.uscourts.gov/opinion... for details and a preview of what is to come.
May 22, 2008 at 9:50 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
greyrider (anonymous) says...
Posted by Newt on May 22, 2008 at 9:51 a.m. (Suggest removal)
In what way is it our American Heritage? Several of the signers of the declaration were atheists.
Actually, Fifty Four Christians, Zero atheists, two deists (Franklin and Jefferson).
May 22, 2008 at 10:11 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
meridian (anonymous) says...
a fool and his money, right? as long as they charge the typical vanity-plate price for it, i don't see a problem. vain christians can get their ego boost from their compadres, and the rest of us know who isn't going to tip well the minute they drive up
May 22, 2008 at 10:18 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
greyrider (anonymous) says...
Newt, when in Rome...
The Treaty of Tripoli was signed in reference to Muslims of that time. They saw the phrase "Christian Nation" as meaning no one else is welcome. Well, that was obviously not the case. Check out this quote from Patrick Henry.
"It cannot be emphasized too clearly and too often that this nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians, not on religion, but on the gospel of Jesus Christ. For this very reason, peoples of other faiths have been afforded asylum, prosperity, and freedom of worship here."
If you read history books written in the 19th century, they tell a radically different story than the "newer" history books.
May 22, 2008 at 10:38 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
512c (anonymous) says...
I am sure that When bubba Jesu' comes back, he will be playing the trumpet, looking for people who wear these tags... Beware of cares without drivers, adorned with "I believe" tags...
BWAHHAHA
GET a life sheeple!
May 22, 2008 at 10:39 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
commonsence (anonymous) says...
Harpo says..."Anyway, this is precisely why there are bumper stickers. Use a license plate to identify a vehicle .. put the
license number, the state, the expiration date, maybe
the county .. and nothing else on the plate."
Well said. Another distraction from real issues.
Seeing how it's a voluntary plate, where is the harm really?
May 22, 2008 at 10:45 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
greyrider (anonymous) says...
Newt, you ironically led this full circle. The phrase "laws of nature and of nature's God" actually specifically refers to the Christian God. It's a phrase invented by Thomas Aquinas. It comes from the Middle Ages and the Catholic Church's teaching on the relationship between church and state.
This is America. All views should be respected. Everyone should be given a chance to speak their mind. Freedom of Speech means you are going to hear things you don't like. Both sides need to understand that.
May 22, 2008 at 10:49 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
commonsence (anonymous) says...
ColdBeer...True. But the same could be said about the race of the occupants, type of car, etc. The professionalism of the officer is another issue altogether. I would prefer just a simple plate with the basic info.
"State law allows the Legislature to create specialty tags, or gives the state Department of Motor Vehicles the authority to issue plates designed by groups ordering at least 400 of one design." If 400 Wiccans or Muslims want a plate, more power to them.
May 22, 2008 at 10:58 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Neponset (anonymous) says...
I am old enough to remember when plates had no graphics - just the reg. no., the state name and the year. I would like to return to that.
May 22, 2008 at 11 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
eyfigueroa (anonymous) says...
Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster ROCKS!!!!
I cannot speak for all über Christians but my personal experience has been that those who flaunt their religion via clothing, bumper stickers, etc are not Christ-like. They talk a good game but for the most part very patronizing, mean people who wouldn't know TRUE kindness and generosity if it came up and bit them in the tookus. They flaunt their faith for they have a need to bring attention to themselves and a need to give themselves a sense of superiority over other even when they are probably the most miserable of individuals.
The same for the radical atheists I've had the dubious pleasure of meeting. Nine time out of ten they are atheists because they felt God failed them or they just want to join the bandwagon of the year. They mock those who have faith for no other reason than they are jealous of those who can believe in something larger than themselves.
And today, on this board, I've seen examples of both.
Personally I will not discuss my own personal beliefs. I don't have to for I'm secure in who and what I am and don't need confirmation from outside sources. I have a healthy respect for those who have a true sense of self, whether that entails religious beliefs, atheism or even agnostics.
However for those who mock others for their beliefs or lack thereof, you are only advertising your own personal and moral weaknesses.
As far as the tag is concerned, as long as they open the door to other LEGALLY recognized religions then I don't have a problem with it. It should be like any other vanity plate that incurs additional charges.
May 22, 2008 at 11:05 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
greyrider (anonymous) says...
Neponset - I'd like to return to the days when the government did as little as possible everywhere. I like Thomas Jefferson's idea that they shouldn't be paid. They should have real jobs and meet once in while.
May 22, 2008 at 11:07 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
ohappyday (anonymous) says...
The tags are choices NOT mandatory. The way that I drive makes me realize that I certainly wouldn't want my religious preference reflected on my vehicle. Even though, people may have a hard time seeing my tag if I'm traveling almost at the speed of light! Just kidding. I really don't go that fast. Life is full of choices. One day life as we know it will pass, but for now let's appreciate and protect the freedoms of our great country.
May 22, 2008 at 11:08 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
greyrider (anonymous) says...
Newt "We will still continue to disagree and that is what is wonderful about our country! You have the right to your believes and I have may right to non-belief.
Again, if tax dollars are used, then ALL beliefs should be represented. ALL or NONE!"
I agree
May 22, 2008 at 11:12 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
nochasgirl (anonymous) says...
So, if I don't like fishing, or I am a vegetarian and don't believe people should kill fish to eat, should I sue the state because of the fishing license plate? (I like seafood, and I like to fish.) I don't buy vanity plates because I think it is a waste of money--it's just a license plate. But it does not bother me at all to read license plates or bumper stickers. I was always taught that you shouldn't have to advertise that you are a Christian, that everyone should know it by the way you live. But the vanity license plates are a choice, and I see no problem with someone purchasing the license plate that they want from a list of choices that SC provides. If you are confident in your beliefs, the beliefs of others shouldn't bother you.
May 22, 2008 at 11:21 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
greyrider (anonymous) says...
Newt - If Jesus could be friends with people who didn't believe in Him, then Christians who see atheists as their enemies are hypocrites.
May 22, 2008 at 11:30 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Hey_U_Guys (anonymous) says...
I like the "PRO CHOICE" license plate idea.
eyfigueroa said "Nine time out of ten they are atheists because they felt God failed them or they just want to join the bandwagon of the year. They mock those who have faith for no other reason than they are jealous of those who can believe in something larger than themselves."
I am the 1 out of 10 that don't fall into that category. I married a Christian. He doesn't go to church or pray, but he has his beliefs. We have discussions about the Bible and God. I ask a lot of questions about why he is a believer and he asks me questions about why I'm not. We never fight or get mean about the subject. We simply listen to what the other has to say. We've talked about how we will let our son decide what he wants to believe or not believe in. If he wants to go to church, he can go. If he doesn't want to, that's fine too. We're not going to push either side on him.
May 22, 2008 at 11:34 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
summerville_guy (anonymous) says...
I can't believe so many people would have a problem with someone paying out of their own pocket for a license plate that simply says "I believe" and has a cross on it.
Let's look at it quite literally: Do you not believe that crosses existed in Jesus' time? The secular historian Josephus wrote about a man from Nazareth named Jesus dying on the cross, and about his followers reporting later that his body was no longer in the grave.
So, with those historical FACTS in place, what could possibly offend you about a cross and the words "I believe"? It doesn't even say what the owner of the plate believes!
And by the way, how many people are aware that the Holy Bible is depicted on at least one of our state's already existing license plates? It's on the college plate for Charleston Southern University - the open Bible is part of the school's symbol, proudly displayed on the plate.
May 22, 2008 at 11:44 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Hey_U_Guys (anonymous) says...
I don't have a problem with the plate, just as I don't have a problem with the "Jesus Fish" that people put on their vehicles. I have a "Darwin Fish" and an "Evolution Fish" on my car. I just think that there should be license plates for all sides.
May 22, 2008 at 11:59 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
summerville_guy (anonymous) says...
Newt, are you a Hindu, Muslim, Pagan, or Buddhist? If not, I would suggest that you let them speak up for themselves and ask for a license plate.
It amazes me that people are so offended by Christianity that they take up arms for religions of which they have no affiliation at all.
May 22, 2008 at noon ( permalink | suggest removal )
CountryGirl (anonymous) says...
Our government spends so much time trying to please everyone that they end up pleasing NO ONE and getting nothing done...yawn...same ole thing...reminds me of Willey Cyote running in place....
May 22, 2008 at 12:10 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
summerville_guy (anonymous) says...
And I know what people are going to say in response to my point. Something to the effect of "Well Christianity shouldn't be the only religion on the plate because that represents a preference toward Christianity by the government."
I see your point. However, what religion are you invidiually affiliated with that you would like to see displayed on a plate? Please call your local Congressman with this request.
If you are not part of any particular religion, however, do not complain. What you are doing is attacking Christianity rather than sincerely speaking up for other religions.
There are over 100 plates for people that have absolutely nothing to do with religion. Why are you going to be offended by one plate that people pay to have?
I am a Christian, but I will not be offended at all to see a Buddhist plate. If that is what the Buddhists want, let them ask for it. Do not pretend to care about their lack of a plate, however, if you have no connection to them.
May 22, 2008 at 12:12 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
carlosthedwarf (anonymous) says...
How soon before the ACLU gets involved with this one? I love to listen to secularists tell us how they support free speech when they're the first ones that want to prohibit yours. It's a freakin' cross! Lighten up.
May 22, 2008 at 12:19 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
devilsadvocate77 (anonymous) says...
Is this what our elected officials spend their time doing in Columbia? South Carolina has the most under-educated, obese, cigarette smoking, wife killing, non seat belt using citizens in the United States. And this is all they muster from a legislative session? Every one of them should be voted out but I am not so sure there are any candidates out there with some backbone to replace them.
May 22, 2008 at 12:25 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
summerville_guy (anonymous) says...
Newt, you are not speaking up for the minority, because to the best of my knowledge, the minority never asked to be spoken up for! I do not know any Buddhists personally. However, IF there are Buddhists living in our state, and IF they decide they want their own plate, and IF the state legislature turns down their request while approving a plate for Christianity, then you can have at it! You can make some signs and march around the capital building, you can get a bozillion signatures on a petition, you can do whatever you feel is best for you to "speak up for another" as you put it.
However, let the Buddhists first decide to ask for the plate. I am assuming that this plate is being considered by the legislature because Christians asked for it. What is wrong with considering creating a plate that people specifically ask for?
Look at it this way - there are NASCAR plates available in our state. I am not going to jump all over the people at the DMV and demand that they also have NBA, MLB, NFL, and NHL plates. Why would I not do this? Because even if they had all of those plates available, I would not want to spend money to put any of them on my car!
So Newt, if you honestly have a preference for a particular plate, by all means, please call your Congressman and ask for it. Then, when it is issued, go pay for it and put it on your car. That is our government in action, listening to the taxpayers.
HOWEVER, please stop being so offended by a Christian license plate that you declare that you are "speaking up for" religious groups who, to the best of my knowledge (and probably yours as well) have never even asked for a plate!
May 22, 2008 at 12:41 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
eyfigueroa (anonymous) says...
"Our government spends so much time trying to please everyone that they end up pleasing NO ONE and getting nothing done...yawn...same ole thing...reminds me of Willey Coyote running in place...."
"Is this what our elected officials spend their time doing in Columbia? South Carolina has the most under-educated, obese, cigarette smoking, wife killing, non seat belt using citizens in the United States. And this is all they muster from a legislative session? Every one of them should be voted out but I am not so sure there are any candidates out there with some backbone to replace them."
AAAAAMEN!!!!!!!! lol
May 22, 2008 at 12:41 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
ConcernedDorchesterCitizen (anonymous) says...
Here is my thoughts - backed up by the bible
Matthew chapter 6 vs. 5-7
And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.
But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.
God isn't looking at my vanity plate - he looks into my soul. Think about that one before shelling out money.
May 22, 2008 at 12:41 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
FiscalConservative (anonymous) says...
I am against this for one reason: The Muslim footbaths in Minnesota. You let one religion do something, then you have to let all of them. I am a Christian but don't need to have a license plate stating the fact. But I also love fantasy baseball and that definately to be expressed via license plate.
May 22, 2008 at 12:45 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
pissedincharleston (anonymous) says...
It's called the Establishment Clause, ye theocrats.
Try reading up on it.
May 22, 2008 at 12:54 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
onevoice (anonymous) says...
"Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church & State. Thomas Jefferson , the third President of the U.S. , supported the separation of church and state.
May 22, 2008 at 12:55 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
pissedincharleston (anonymous) says...
"Newt, you are not speaking up for the minority, because to the best of my knowledge, the minority never asked to be spoken up for! I do not know any Buddhists personally. However, IF there are Buddhists living in our state, and IF they decide they want their own plate, and IF the state legislature turns down their request while approving a plate for Christianity, then you can have at it! You can make some signs and march around the capital building, you can get a bozillion signatures on a petition, you can do whatever you feel is best for you to "speak up for another" as you put it."
Lot of conditions you've listed there. Any other hoops a non-Christian should have to jump through?
May 22, 2008 at 1:35 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
JohnS (anonymous) says...
If they get 500 people to say they will buy a plate then it should be done.
May 22, 2008 at 1:43 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
auger (anonymous) says...
Alright! 101 posts and 101 different plates in S.C.
May 22, 2008 at 1:51 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
summerville_guy (anonymous) says...
Hoops to jump through? How easy do you expect it to be to get a license plate approved? These are not hoops, "pissedincharleston." If you pay attention to what I said, it is simple: A Buddhist (or a person of any other religion) living in our state may want a license plate dedicated to their religion. So they can ask the legislature to approve it. Pure and simple. Then, if the legislature declines the license plate, newt, and whoever else feels strongly about it, can take action. Where exactly are the "hoops" here?
I personally would support the legislature approving the license plate for other religious groups, because unlike a lot of people on here, license plates fail to offend me.
And newt - you still do not get my point, and I guess you never will, so we will have to agree to disagree. All I am saying is that people who are part of other religions should be the ones to demand plates for their religion, not you. You are obviously offended by Christianity, so there is nothing I can say that can convince you otherwise. Even if every religious group you mentioned, and that you know people who are a part of, had their own license plates, I feel confident that you would be scouring the encyclopedia to find another religion to "stand up for." This is obviously because you have a problem with Christians asking for their own license plate, and that is sad.
Newt, a few posts back, you said that it was none of my business what your religion is. This basically says that you would not buy a license plate anyway with your religion on it in the case that one was available, since it is nobody's business to know.
So why all the fuss about all religions having their own license plate if you would not buy one of them anyway?
May 22, 2008 at 1:56 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
512c (anonymous) says...
I will say I'm sorry for making fun of Jesus... But, only if the people that represent him stop annoying me with they're obnoxious license plate tags..
May 22, 2008 at 2:09 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Hey_U_Guys (anonymous) says...
I want a license plate with a picture of my ass on it. Would that offend anyone here?
May 22, 2008 at 2:26 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
greyrider (anonymous) says...
100+ posts about license plates?
Wow, talk about a slow news day!!
May 22, 2008 at 2:30 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Hey_U_Guys (anonymous) says...
You know what, my celulite covered ass has a right to be printed on a license plate. It's important to me and I am a firm believer of my ass, no matter how big or disgusting it is. LOL!
May 22, 2008 at 2:34 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Tammie (anonymous) says...
Lol @ allwoman, you'd prolly get tailgated Hey.
Allwoman, how's allbaby treating ya?
May 22, 2008 at 2:35 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Hey_U_Guys (anonymous) says...
Oh, you'll enjoy it. Don't kid yourself!
May 22, 2008 at 2:41 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
sawser (anonymous) says...
Can I have a "Praise Allah" plate as well?
"I believe" you should keep religion in church.
May 22, 2008 at 2:46 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
greyrider (anonymous) says...
Posted by Newt on May 22, 2008 at 2:37 p.m. (Suggest removal)
grey this just proves how polarizing religion can be and that is not a bad thing if we can just learn tolerance:-)
Newt, this is sad but today when I meet someone and they say they are a Christian, I say out loud "Oh, really, so am I" but inside I wonder "oh, really?". Don't let the phonies distort things for you. There are some people I know who openly profess to be a Christian and then live in a way that makes me want to put duct tape on their mouths and tell them "shut up you're making us all look bad"
May 22, 2008 at 2:59 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Tammie (anonymous) says...
The little one is good, I felt my first "flutter" Tuesday night when I was on my home. Everyone is telling me I'm having a girl but we shall see. Appearantly, it's because of my hair, my fro is getting curlier and curlier and I have a strange craving for watermelon. Yuck. I dont like watermelon. Lol
May 22, 2008 at 3:07 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Tammie (anonymous) says...
My fiance wants a boy too but if the lil one is a "she", he'd better build a bridge and get over it. Lol
May 22, 2008 at 3:23 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Girleygirl (anonymous) says...
Hey Allwoman-
I will find you the news article where Darth Vader beat up the Jedi Priest....I sware to you I read it in the newspaper about 2 weeks ago and I laughed so hard about it.
I'ma get me a plate that has a picture of my foot going up Joe Riley's tail....
May 22, 2008 at 3:27 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
greyrider (anonymous) says...
Newt - That's what I say. Here's the true Christian perspective. We believe Jesus is God and that everyone should decide to follow Him. So therefore we would like to see everyone become a Christian and follow Jesus. That's our goal. NEWSFLASH - Being obnoxious isn't going to work! Back before I found Jesus (boy, do I have stories), when the "ram it down your throat" ones approached me, I didn't jump up and yell "hey, I want to be like you!" We can respectfully discuss different perspectives, agree to disagree and still be friends.
May 22, 2008 at 3:30 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
theronce (anonymous) says...
As a Christian, I do not think that we need this. I agree that our lives should be sufficient testimony. Our lives should be what sparks the opportunities to witness; the attention that we should seek should not be on ourselves. Paul might agree that this is one of those things that we can do without to avoid being a stumbling block to others.
May 22, 2008 at 3:30 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
bravecharleston9myspace (anonymous) says...
I AM A CHRISTIAN BUT I DON'T THINK IT'S A GOOD IDEA....
IF CHRISTIANS OR ANOTHER RELIGIOUS GROUP WANT A SPECIAL
PLATE....GO BUY ONE....
DO WHAT JESUS WOULD DO.....DON'T PUSH ON EVERYONE....
May 22, 2008 at 4:09 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
CHRISJIII (anonymous) says...
No matter how many ways and times you Bible thumpers try to get around it division of church and state still stands.
May 22, 2008 at 4:57 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
luvmydogs59 (anonymous) says...
Posted by ColdBeer on May 22, 2008 at 10:52 a.m.
"There is no harm what so ever... as long as the state is willing to make specialized plates for any and all religions. Otherwise, it's a government endorsement of specific religions and THEN you could have some harm."
Very well said and very true. I am not of the Christian faith. So where is the license plate for my religion? I'm not a religious person by any means, but what it boils down to is the principle of the thing. Everyone has their own religious beliefs...that's why there are so many different religions in the world, and here in the U.S. Either recognize and endorse them all, or endorse none. We live in a secular world, we don't need any government getting involved with the "church and state" issue.
I guess our lawmakers have no other pressing issues to deal with these days. This is what happens when they get bored, they have to think of something to do! *sarcasm noted*
May 22, 2008 at 6:25 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
abitskeptical (anonymous) says...
I have not read through all of the 130 some odd posts, so maybe my comment has been covered...
How can a license plate that has to be VOLUNTARILY "special ordered", & costs extra to do so, be construed as a government "endorsement" of a specific religion?
Seems to me it is merely a tolerance of a certain group who wants to pay extra for a vanity plate. I think the whole vanity plate issue is a bit ridiculous, but if they are going to be allowed....
As I understand it, any group who orders 400 or more of the plates can petition to have a specialized vanity plate. If other religions want to to this, it is my understanding that they are free to apply for the same type of thing.
I am not interested in paying extra for a flipping license plate, but if that floats someone's boat, & he/she wants it bad enough to pay extra for it, what is all the hooopla about?
May 22, 2008 at 7:41 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
YankeeLiberal (anonymous) says...
Kind of pathetic when lawmakers can't pass legistation on
1. Penalizing businesses who hire illegal immigrants
2. Enforcing the law on proper use of handicapped permits
3. Adequate funding of public schools (here's an idea: "the education lottery" money should be spent shoring up really bad public school performance in the primary grades, WAY more critical than funding college!!!)
4. Rooting out racist, unprofessional law enforcement
But, they've got time to eagerly vote on putting a religious symbol on a revenue producing license plate????
That says it all!!
May 22, 2008 at 10:11 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
abitskeptical (anonymous) says...
yep...
May 22, 2008 at 10:20 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
scienceguy (anonymous) says...
abitskeptical:
The 4th Circuit Court of Appeals more or less answered why this will not fly in http://pacer.ca4.uscourts.gov/opinion....
May 23, 2008 at 12:48 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
scienceguy (anonymous) says...
YankeeLiberal:
The State Lottery was created as a way for those who wanted to voluntarily tax themselves to pay for college scholarships for South Carolina students. If that money is diverted to K-12, then people will be screaming for a tax reduction and we will then still have mediocre schools but no scholarship money.
May 23, 2008 at 1:04 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
abitskeptical (anonymous) says...
scienceguy-thanks for the reference..
I actually had started to re-think some of my comment last night. I have some other thoughts on this subject, but don't have time at the moment to go into it.
You are a productive contributer to these P&C threads & I am most appreciative.
May 23, 2008 at 7:20 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
abitskeptical (anonymous) says...
My husband & I have a special code word nickname for those special license plate "frames"...but I can't say it here...
:) :)
May 23, 2008 at 12:02 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
GOLDIE (anonymous) says...
The Unites States is NOT a nation of christians. It is a melting pot of hundreds of spiritualies. Why do christians feel the need to shove their belifs down everyones throat? If someone want a christian cross on their license plate they have that option by ordering a custom plate. The christians are unrealistic and need to practice what their leader did. Which is to include all, despite their job, or faith or past or sexulity. Apparently the christians feel they are better than Jesus and have the right to discriminate. Perhaps they should actually read their own book.
December 11, 2008 at 7:14 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
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