Rail backers work to keep idea rolling

Posted by moonpie on March 5, 2008 at 5:07 a.m. (Suggest removal)

This is what "little Joe", "Big Joe(summey" and the other local governments need to get involved in. Not the Noisette type deals. This is exactly the type project that could impact the quality of life for all.

Posted by majorjohnson on March 5, 2008 at 7 a.m. (Suggest removal)

This is $40,000,000 minimum, and that's just to get it built. After that consider millions every year. Add in the fact that no one is going to take the rail to get to Charleston or North Charleston so they can take the lousy bus service to get 5 or 10 blocks from where they work. This area is not built for mass transportation, it's far too spread out. For mass transportation to work even with massive subsidies requires density, and we don't have that by design.

Charleston, Berkley and Dorchester counties have a spread out population of less than half a million people. Summerville to Charleston will serve a few thousand at most, and probably fewer will be willing to drive to the rail station wait for the train, get off in the area their job is in, wait for a bus, then walk to work from the stop and do it all again going home. Toss in August heat, rain, lack of proximity to lunch from work, and you get very few who will use this. We just don't have the density for it to be a viable alternative for that amount of money. Even in the NY-NJ metro area with a great mass transit system and extremely high density of millions it can't come close to paying for itself, and cost to benefit ration in an area built like this would be far worse.

Posted by commonsence on March 5, 2008 at 7:35 a.m. (Suggest removal)

While $40,000,000 is no small amount, it pales in comparison to what is/will be spent to widen 26 and other roads to deal with the congestion. Something has to be done and the combo of the port expansion, increasing gas prices and continued growth will help this idea gain support.

Posted by build259 on March 5, 2008 at 7:48 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Another utopian folly. It's not their money, but is their dream. Get the next generation living in "affordable" housing, clustered around rail stations, shopping at the neighborhood grocery - and walking or biking everywhere else.

It's the enviromentalists' vision of the future, but it smacks of Barnwell, Bishopville, Newberry or even Summerville in 1922.

No thanks.

Posted by jimisle on March 5, 2008 at 8:05 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I agree with majorjohnson that there aren't enough people in this area to support such an expensive project. Few people would ride trains for a number of reasons, including the fact that service would be very limited at first. Many newer systems in larger metro areas usually can't afford to run trains more than weekday rush hours. CHATS should study all kinds of public transportation. For example, bus rapid transit might get a better public reception, particularly if it were coordinated with an overall improvement of the present CARTA system.

Posted by theronce on March 5, 2008 at 8:15 a.m. (Suggest removal)

It is smoke and mirrors for politicians. Major is exactly on target. Rarely do these projects meet the hype. Most are expensive drains on the local economies that actually serve a very small part of the population. If you cannot make a bus system that is easily adjustable work, what makes you think that "buses" on fixed tracks will work.

Posted by whome on March 5, 2008 at 8:31 a.m. (Suggest removal)

How about $4 or $5 gasoline?

Posted by Zod on March 5, 2008 at 8:52 a.m. (Suggest removal)

It is our best interest to reduce our dependancy of foreign oil. This project is a major step in the direction of killing the love affair with the automobile. Contrary to popular belief, the interstate system has not always been in existance. The government built the interstates. People use the interstates. It's time for a wiser investment. This is one of them.

"You kill a snake by cutting off the head."

Mount Pleasant does not want anymore lanes on highway 17. How long before Summerville says they do not want anymore lanes on main street? How long before Goose Creek says they do not want anymore lanes on Goose Creek Boulevard?

The answer to DRIVE the usage of the track is to take lanes AWAY from roads. If you sit on a road in an automobile for two hours while a bus rides by in a lane designated for the bus, it will not take long for you to use the bus. Why would we want that? It may just be the answer to end of our involvement in the middle east. Our interest there is oil - "cutting the snake at the head."

Posted by icbmman on March 5, 2008 at 9:45 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Majorjohnson, your information is a bit off; the metro area of Chas of the tri-county area actually has more than half a million people: approximately over 600,000 currently. Despite that flaw in your argument, you are correct in that the current population will probably not support a commuter rail.

However, this project wouldn't be even completed until 10 years from now. What is the population of Chas going to be then? In the past decade, the Chas area grew by approximately 200,000 people...following this trend, the metro area could be close to 1 million by the time the project was completed. Do you honestly think I-26 and I-526 in their current state would be able to handle the additional traffic? While I'm no fan of Riley's half-a.. solutions such as the 2-lane grid system on Maybank Highway, this solution is a long-term one. We need to start building the infrastructure for this now.

The interstates STILL need to be widened as well as other roads, but commuter rail would give residents of the metro area an alternative for transportation. Having different options and alternatives will definitely help the traffic situation.

Posted by pompusmaximus on March 5, 2008 at 10:25 a.m. (Suggest removal)

You make an excellent point icbmman. People just can't seem to grasp the concept that 800,000 people and $6 per gallon gas 10 years from now will pretty much force us to look at alternatives. One more thing, please look at the figures for how much it cost to widen I-26 and 526. You will be hard pressed to make the cost argument when dealing with commuter rail. Road widening is pretty mush a useless outdated practice and doesn't solve the core problem at all. It just sweeps the problem under the rug until it gets even worse. Many people against the commuter rail ALWAYS ignore the fact that road cost far exceed any possible commuter line.

Posted by gcmadness on March 5, 2008 at 10:31 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Something has to be done. I commute to downtown from Goose Creek. I moved there when I decide to purchase a home after renting in West Ashley, because I couldn't afford to buy in the immediate Charleston area. Now that gas is climbing to outrageous prices, those of us living in the GC/Ladson/Summerville area would benefit form some type of mass transit. I agree with ZOD, a POV-type lane maybe a more affordable solution to the problem. Also a POV lane would encourage more carpooling, and the CARTA Express from N. Charleston seems to be a huge success, and if there were a designated lane on I26, I feel it be even more popular!

Posted by toastchee on March 5, 2008 at 10:34 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Please, please implement this to take Charleston into the modern age. We would be such a cool city to think progressively about our traffic.

Do we want to be Atlanta Jr?

Posted by little_green_person on March 5, 2008 at 10:34 a.m. (Suggest removal)

It is false logic to say that if CARTA is a disaster a rail system would be.

Rail systems are historically much more reliable and they work all over the world. People tend to like trains better. They use them.

Ask anyone on the street about the buses. People don't know which ones go where or when. Of course no one is going to trust that for transportation. With gas prices going up (and does anyone really think they are ever coming down?) it is past time to look at a rail alternative.

If Charleston can't make a rail system work while the rest of the world can, perhaps the city had better take a good hard look at itself and wonder why.

Posted by toastchee on March 5, 2008 at 10:35 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Cold beer, that is utter nonsense. That's the same thing my rich aunt said about Carta. Whiteys are doing just fine.

Posted by toastchee on March 5, 2008 at 10:35 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Ooops, I meant Marta in ATL.

Posted by LutherVanderhorst on March 5, 2008 at 10:49 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Consultants, town managers, and the mayor?

A black hole of ignorance and cash just opened somewhere in the galaxy.

Posted by newto843 on March 5, 2008 at 10:52 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Geechie is right, the light rail development in Seattle has been nothing short of a nightmare. This could turn into one big black hole for the region.

Posted by toastchee on March 5, 2008 at 11:02 a.m. (Suggest removal)

'which is why I never mentioned race....'

Let's see, comments on crime movement to the burbs and suggesting population control? Sounds as close as you can get to mentioning race.

Posted by icbmman on March 5, 2008 at 11:20 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Pompous, to eliminate or fix a problem as complex as it is, the solutions must be multi-faceted. Regardless of how people want alternatives, people also want independence, and the motor vehicle continues to give that. Even if rail were built overnight, you'd still have traffic jams as the population grows.

We cannot limit ourselves to one solution. It has to be a combination of solutions, in other words, a coordinated attack from different fronts. Traffic is already horrendous on I-26 and I-526, so a short-term fix of widening the highways will improve things. As the highways are being widened, start building the infrastructure for commuter rail. Rather than forcing people to use commuter rail by allowing traffic to get much worse--which is what would be done by not widening current roads and building new ones--having multiple alternatives for transportation gives people choices.

Posted by rutide on March 5, 2008 at 11:24 a.m. (Suggest removal)

"Adding lanes to solve highway congestion is like loosening your belt to cure obesity". Anymore than 3 highway lanes in each direction is more than enough and does not help total congestion just look at Ashley Phosphate and I-26 it has 5 lanes and is almost always busy.

Commuter rail with park and ride capability that can get you into downtown in less than 40 minutes from Moncks Corner with stops in Goose Creek/Hanahan, No. Charleston, and then downtown is ideal for a ten year time frame to reduce travel on 52 & 26. It wouldn't just benefit Charleston but the region as well.

Posted by icbmman on March 5, 2008 at 11:39 a.m. (Suggest removal)

"Adding lanes to solve highway congestion is like loosening your belt to cure obesity." I'm so sick of this quote with its convoluted logic. The actual cure for obesity would be eating less, so as ColdBeer has asked, are we to think about proposals for population control!?!? If you use that kind of logic, that's the kind of ideas you start conjuring. Enough of this absurdity.

While commuter rail is a great idea, it is not a magic pill. NYC still has enormous traffic jams, despite its massive transit system. Like I said, rail transit needs to be done IN CONJUNCTION WITH adding lanes to the interstates...attack the problem with multiple strategies.

Posted by majorjohnson on March 5, 2008 at 11:40 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Charleston is not going to become more dense. It is going to continue to expand as it is, out rather than up, in every direction with large open spaces everywhere. You cannot move people with mass transit when they are spread out over hundreds of square miles. Will we build another rail system from monks corner, awendaw, james island, st. george, walterboro? And when they get to Charleston they still have to get to work. People in Mt. Pleasant who work downtown have busses now, but they don't use them for a good reason. Charleston can't get people within what they consider a reasonable distance to the workplace in a reasonable time. Mt. Pleasant to North Charleston or West Ashley is over an hour with transfers. My nephew rode the bus from Mt. Pleasant to a school in West Ashley, 2.5 hours both ways and included having to walk because the stops weren't close to the school or his house.

NY has rail in and out to dense suburbs and hubs surrounded by millions of people, constantly running subways criss crossed under the island, busses constantly running every few minutes, and you can walk to lunch within 2 blocks from wherever you work, and they are still jam packed with cars and taxis.

People drive to the charleston area because that's where their jobs are. How about letting jobs move outside the area closer to where people are living at? If I were starting a business I'd probably move out toward Jedburg, Hollywood, Awendaw, where not only is land cheaper but my workers could get to me easier, not to mention I could get to work easier myself. The biggest deal around is on 95 towards Orangburg.

Posted by ln1959 on March 5, 2008 at 11:56 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I am reading a lot of posting about widening I-26/526 and I am here to say, it wont help the traffic problem that much, if your still ending up going from 6 lane to 3lanes. Then again, people in SC are more polite and would work together to keep the traffic rolling, compared to the people up here that would speed up so you wont get 1 up on them.

Here in Northern VA, a lot of highway widening have been done, but traffic is just as bad if not worse because they have 6 highways coming into one highway thats only have 4 lanes.

They have the mass transits system up here, but are losing a lot of money because people wont use it. Prices are going up twice a year so that the system can stay above water.

The convenience of having your car if an emergency pops up keeps people in there car and if the weather is real bad, you have to drive anyway.

Posted by zoomru on March 5, 2008 at 11:58 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Lets connect the dots here...
On Sunday this an article in the Local section discussed
our trash "problem". The solution is ...

http://www.popsci.com/scitech/article/20...

the energy generated would power the electricity to run an
ELEVATED MAG-LEV RAIL system along Hwys 17, 26, and 526. Do away with CARTA all together!!! Dont use the hydrogen for Buses as such but Trolleys in certain areas. Most would use
bikes, Golf Carts, or walk to the stations.
We have to get rid of trash any way...except now you will
get paid for it instead of the city charging for disposal pick-up. Talk about a clean city. Use City and county
municiple issued tax free Muni-Bonds to pay for this. Investors will rush in...and sorry Joe...no tax increases!!

Of course there are holes in this but it is a start in the right direction!!

Posted by zoomru on March 5, 2008 at 12:02 p.m. (Suggest removal)

They cut my link....again.....

http://
www.popsci.com/
scitech/article/2007-03/prophet-garbage

Posted by toastchee on March 5, 2008 at 12:04 p.m. (Suggest removal)

ColdBeer, agree to disagree. But you're embarrassing.

Posted by rmsems on March 5, 2008 at 12:41 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Better public transport would be a pleasant -- say what you want. I have worked overseas where gas prices are three times what they are at home and it was a real convenience to use high speed trains instead of cars -- quicker, safer, cheaper.
I'd say Charleston-Summerville is long overdue to jump on that bandwagon.

Posted by rutide on March 5, 2008 at 12:41 p.m. (Suggest removal)

By icbmman "The actual cure for obesity would be eating less, so as ColdBeer has asked, are we to think about proposals for population control!?!? If you use that kind of logic, that's the kind of ideas you start conjuring. Enough of this absurdity."

Whoa, did I say anything about population control? No. So if the cure for obesity is eating less wouldn't the cure for traffic be putting less cars on your highway? The population of the lowcountry could be cut by 25% and I guarantee you would still have just about as much traffic as you do now. We drive more now than we did 50 years ago when the highways were conjured up. Time to think to the future, this is America and we all love to think outside the box but noone ever wants to do it.

icbmman keep spewing your wild comparisons and exaggerations, I just hope you don't believe for a second you can compare us to NYC. 600,000 +/- pop vs. 8+ Million in 1/2 the area.

Posted by 512c on March 5, 2008 at 12:44 p.m. (Suggest removal)

YES!!

Posted by 512c on March 5, 2008 at 1:01 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Every car wreck is an alternative to rail.
Give up your drives and move downtown and Charleston will densify.
I notice the same people are posting on all forums, so I will polite. A lot of your opinions of the negative part of the rail are frankly retarded. Slow, as in a car in rush hour traffic. See ya!

Posted by icbmman on March 5, 2008 at 1:11 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Rutide, population control is in essence what would need to be done, using the logic of your aforementioned simile. You cannot guarantee that car usage would significantly decrease upon commuter rail implementation combined with the metro area's increase in population. Some people will still want the independence associated with driving their automobile. Yes, take cars off the road, but prepare for the future cars that WILL come as the population grows. MORE IMPORTANTLY, have highways that can accomodate massive amounts of cars for hurricane evacuations. Leaving I-26 and I-526 as they are would be the equivalent of negligence.

I was comparing Chas to NYC? When the he11 was I doing that? I merely pointed out that NYC's mass transit has not been the cure-all for its traffic problems, because the city still has them. Knowing this, commuter rail cannot be just built and be expected to solve the problem.

All I'm saying is that there needs to be a coordinated effort to implement road widening in conjunction with installing rail transit and coordinating the current CARTA bus system. THAT is what will make things better.

Posted by pompusmaximus on March 5, 2008 at 1:18 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I used this qoute on another argument a while back, "Widening roads is like buying a larger belt to cure obesity, it ignores the real problem." Establishing a commuter rail system will take cars off the road (or put less food on the table for an obese person)less food equals less obesity; less car trips equals less congestion.

Posted by wheels2u666 on March 5, 2008 at 1:56 p.m. (Suggest removal)

next time some of you are in Charlotte, which was a small town just 20-30 yrs ago compared to charleston, has recently opened up a light rail system from about 10 miles south of the "uptown" area, charlotte much like charleston has an interstate parelleling it I-77 and on this stretch of the light rail and old road say, like meeting street , charlottes old street is Southblvd, will it be full overnight with riders probably not, however as some here have posted, in 10 yrs , what might Gas be 8-10 dollars a gallon, if there was dependable /timely commuter service that would cost say 500 a yr versus a car that might cost 3000 a yr, hopefully people will use it , some will some wont, who of us would of guessed we'd be paying 50-60 or more a month to watch TV , or 75-100 a month to have a cell phone, its all about choices,
let the Govt subsidize these projects, a billion in charleston or charlotte, is much better than a billion in Iraq!!!

Posted by icbmman on March 5, 2008 at 2:10 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Well, I think it's utopian thinking at best to ignore road infrastructure for the sake of rail transit thinking that it will be the "magic pill". The population will continue to grow, bringing cars onto the freeways. That is a irrefutable reality. While rail transit does need to be built, it will not eliminate the need for wider highways.

The issue is that you may take some cars off the road, but as the population increases, more cars will go right back on the road. If you don't attack the problem from both fronts, traffic congestion will continue to linger.

What I'm beginning to sense is that this rail idea is more of a utopian transportation vehicle for environmentalist whackos to eliminate the automobile rather than a pragmatic solution to reduce traffic congestion. If the intention of this idea was pure traffic alleviation, I think the multi-strategy idea would be widely considered by most people; however, many of the supporters of the proposed project seem all too eager to forget the highways and focus on just the rail. What are the pure rail supporters' true intentions?

Posted by jimisle on March 5, 2008 at 2:11 p.m. (Suggest removal)

icbmman is right. Building these types of systems isn't a "cure" for traffic congestion. Studies have shown that a successful transit project might draw 1-2% of drivers from adjacent roads. Unfortunately, those drivers are quickly replaced over a short period, due to growth. Whether you develop commuter rail, light rail or bus rapid transit, the number one objective should be to build convenient and efficient transportation. And that development should embrace every other mode of transportation around it, including buses and highway lanes. Everything else - ridership, revenue, etc. - are perks. I hope Mayor Riley and CHATS is considering this, otherwise their project is doomed to become another tourist train to nowhere. If this moves forward, I say they'd be more successful seeking private funding. Otherwise, they'll be better off working in conjunction with CARTA to upgrade/expand the current express bus system.

Posted by icbmman on March 5, 2008 at 2:12 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Then I see comments from people like wheels2u666, and my suspicions are justified. Aye kurumba...

Posted by toastchee on March 5, 2008 at 2:22 p.m. (Suggest removal)

ColdBeer, what I hear you saying is that to keep people safe, we need to stop any increase in overall regional mobility ... that safety can somehow be maintained by keeping the barriers to lower-cost and helpful transit intact.

That those in suburban locales have a safer utopia partially due to the opportunity cost in criminals being able to reach them.

I am saying that is that is truly flawed reasoning.

Criminals can jump in the car with their homies and pillage a neighborhood easier than they can come hit your burb and haul the loot back on the train!

Keeping people safe is incredibly important. Yes, population is a problem. But crime happens where it does due to its 'potential' divided by its 'prevention'. You don't see crack dealers on Park West street corners due to the raised standards in the community.

Posted by wheels2u666 on March 5, 2008 at 2:32 p.m. (Suggest removal)

ICB man, im far from a tree hugging , green peace enviormentalist, however, more and more of "their " ideas make sense, do you even bother to re-cycle, ? probably not, building 6-8-10 lane roads like atlanta has , hasnt done much to alleviate traffic congestion, having another dependable /timely system in place can and will alleviat congestion is that to hard for you to comprehend, sure with population increase we will get traffic, however: the point is to decrease traffic with a system that would benefit more or most people from say 6am to 6 pm, time frame,
meanwhile sit on I-26 idiling away or bumper to bumper in traffic , Ive been in and around charleston since 1977, you could go from Goose Creek to Downtown charleston in 10 -15 minutes, wouldnt it be nice to do that again?

Posted by jimisle on March 5, 2008 at 2:49 p.m. (Suggest removal)

wheels2u666, A commuter train is not going to decrease traffic. The system can only be built to provide better transit, if that's in fact what it will be. Has Atlanta's MARTA system alleviated the parking lot on the I75/85 interchange? Or Northern VA's VRE commuter trains in relation to I95? Benefitting the people who commute the I26 corridor during the 6AM-6PM window will only work if it's done in a concerted effort with the entire transportation infrastructure. This will eventually make anything they develop in that corridor an attractive alternative to the private car for commuting purposes.

Posted by pompusmaximus on March 5, 2008 at 2:50 p.m. (Suggest removal)

ICBMAN I'm not sure anybody here is suggesting that commuter rail will solve all of the problems and it is quite disingenuous for you to make that argument. We are simply sayng lets provide an option that will hopefull y get SOME of the people off the road and onto a train if they so choose. I'm not an environmentalist..I'm just somebody who is sick of sitting in traffic and wants to prepare for the day we have 800,000 people in the metro area and gas is around 7 dollars a gallon. (10 years from noe ofcourse)

P.S. this is not light rail but commuter rail. Commuter rail uses exisiting rail lines and passenger train cars. This is much cheaper than light rail trolleys that cost billions. This will at the most cost 380 million

Posted by majorjohnson on March 5, 2008 at 2:51 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Dependable and timely? Like CARTA you mean? Try taking a bus to work for the rest of the week, then tell us if you end up back in your car or not. For that matter, drive downtown, park in a garage, and just take the bus from there...good luck.

And now we have the rail going from Summerville to Goose Creek, then downtown...how many more stops and miles are you gonna add? North Chuck? Maybe a few stops there. Then lets add some rail and stops in Mt. Pleasant...Then West Ashley. What are we talking now, 50, 60, 70 million dollars? For a few hundred people? How many hundreds of thousands of dollars per person are you willing to fork over?

Frankly I don't give a rats butt. I live in the country and work from home so I don't have to get in the traffic with the crazy can't-drivers, but how about you spend you're own money instead of expecting me to part with what little the government lets me keep of my paycheck right now.

Some people don't care what it costs or if it's effective for the price, since it comes off of the magic money tree anyway. Wheels says spend a billion...no problem with him. What is that, about 1 million dollars each to get 1000 people out of their cars? Ten million each if only 100 ride it? No problem there for wheels.

Posted by icbmman on March 5, 2008 at 3:17 p.m. (Suggest removal)

wheels2u666, jimisle does an excellent job of getting my point. If you want your commute from GC to downtown to be as short as it used to be, installing commuter rail would help somewhat, but it would also help if I-26 and I-526 had more room. Adding a carpool lane along with Park and Ride lots can help. However, it ALL has to be done--rail, bus, highways...everything--in order for the transportation system to be effective.

Pompous, I have no argument with what you said...indeed, let's provide the option of commuter rail, but let's not do that at the expense of our current infrastructure. Preparing for the inevitable population growth requires providing ALL of the options.

Posted by pompusmaximus on March 5, 2008 at 3:17 p.m. (Suggest removal)

ICBMAN I'm not sure anybody here is suggesting that commuter rail will solve all of the problems and it is quite disingenuous for you to make that argument. We are simply sayng lets provide an option that will hopefull y get SOME of the people off the road and onto a train if they so choose. I'm not an environmentalist..I'm just somebody who is sick of sitting in traffic and wants to prepare for the day we have 800,000 people in the metro area and gas is around 7 dollars a gallon. (10 years from noe ofcourse)

P.S. this is not light rail but commuter rail. Commuter rail uses exisiting rail lines and passenger train cars. This is much cheaper than light rail trolleys that cost billions. This will at the most cost 380 million

Also suggesting that this will dramatically increase crime is hilarious at best

Posted by pompusmaximus on March 5, 2008 at 3:19 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Sorry for the double post

Posted by toastchee on March 5, 2008 at 3:20 p.m. (Suggest removal)

>>ColdBeer wrote: "I still think we need to control the birth of children of all races so that only people that are capable of properly raising kids have kids".

Who decides? Joe? Keith? Dubya? You? A committee? the Church?

Scary thoughts, gentlemen.

Posted by toastchee on March 5, 2008 at 3:23 p.m. (Suggest removal)

lots of respect for your comments ColdBeer. I am impressed.

Posted by onawhim on March 5, 2008 at 4:13 p.m. (Suggest removal)

You all realize that this will not happen in our lifetime. It takes years to build a mass transit system. But one has to be built. It is inevitable.

The future holds more people, more housing, more businesses, more of everything. There are less and less trees up and down Dorchester Road, Highway 61, Highway 17, etc., than there were 28 years ago when I arrived in “Charleston.” And there will be less and less in 28 more years. New housing and businesses are going up literally every day, right before our eyes.

The Tri-County area will be a sprawling urbanized community before you know it. Charleston “proper” will be a very small part. Berkeley and Dorchester Counties are growing rapidly and folks are flocking to the “suburbs.” I have seen it happen in other states and it is happening right here, right now, right before our eyes.

The Tri-County area desperately needs a mass transit system. Whether it be bus or train, one is desperately needed. Not just a system to tootle around downtown. Young adults who are trying to get to Trident Tech from Summerville have to rely on their parents or friends to get there. Young adults who are trying to get to work from Moncks Corner, whether it be at McDonald’s on Ashley Phosphate or at Patriot’s Point in Mt. Pleasant, are limited unless they have a car. And every family can’t afford a second car; some can hardly afford one with today’s gas prices.

We need to stop looking at this with blinders on. This is no longer about “Charleston.” This is about the Tri-County area. There are several of us who live in Summerville, Goose Creek, Mt. Pleasant, Ladson, even Walterboro and beyond, who work in Charleston or North Charleston who are very much in favor and feel that a Tri-County effort would work.

Posted by wjhamilton3 on March 5, 2008 at 4:15 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I ride CARTA on a regular basis. It's convenient and reliable. They show up on time. The busses running to and from Mt. Pleasant have more riders every month. It takes time for transit to work since people have to work out their jobs, schedules and living arrangements. People who use transit do that and over time transit influences how the landscape around it develops.

I suppose cars are more convenient, but there is a lot more stress. The bus is calm and pleasant and you meet different types of people. I'm too nearsighted to have a driver's license, as are thousands of visually impaired people.

If you just want to blast around Charleston burning $3, soon to be $4 gas, while getting stressed out by traffic and you have the money, you can. However, our bus system works if you have the patience to use it.

My wife can pick up up and bring me home in the afternoon. It ads 15 minutes to her commute on average and imposes an additional cost in vehicle operation of about $2 to $3. I still have to ride home with her, which takes about 18 minutes. Total transport time for both of us is thus 36 minutes for the trip from my downtown office to home pluse about 7 additional minutes for her to get to my office from the most direct route home, a total of 43 minutes. I can do it by CARTA in 50 minutes, with a layover where I can hit the hardware store on Mary street. A trip to Lowes in Mt. Pleasant will eat up 40 minutes for both of us and consume about $2 in gas.

Most people just jump in the car to solve every problem, but the car is itself a problem. Our family accumulates less than 10 thousand miles a year on the jeep with my wife working near Citadel Mall.

Posted by majorjohnson on March 5, 2008 at 7:44 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Mr Hamilton posted something a bit confusing. It seems his wife has to pick him up to get him home, or maybe not. His wife can get him home in 18 minutes, or it may be 50 minutes by CARTA, or it may be 50 minutes either way. I was unable to figure it out.

I'm not against mass transit. Some folks need it. I'm saying over $40,000,000 dollars just for the startup for a rail system to get some unknown number of people from Summerville to Charleston is probably way out of proportion to any benefit that is going to be realised. I'm also saying if you want to limit housing to one or two families per lot you can't expect housing to be affordable. I'm also saying if you limit the very small footprint of the Charleston metro area to a disjointed few business areas allowing a couple of stories you can't get enough people or businesses in that area to allow for the density that is needed to even allow mass transit to operate at anything near an acceptable loss. The way Charleston and the surrounding areas want to restrict density is fine if that's what they want, but they cannot expect to have mass transit and low density without massive cost.

If yall are OK with massive cost I don't care. I wouldn't give a thimble of warm spit about it, as long as you don't expect me to pay for it. The real problem is people who expect folks in Two-fork Idaho and Smoaks South Carolina and Seattle Washington and New York New York to pay for it. We got problems in our little chunks of America too ya know! We don't have extra dollars to get you from Summerville to Charleston. You may think those federal dollars are free money that doesn't matter, but they are coming out of our paychecks and our communities. I'm fed up with people in every corner of America thinking that they deserve something so everyone else has to pay for it. What's even worse, they seem to think if it's gonna hurt when they stick it to me I should pay for my own lube or just grit my teeth and take it for their good. How about you grit your teeth and take the hit instead of expecting it of me?

Posted by zoomru on March 5, 2008 at 8:10 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Trying to link via a mobile a trial in progress

Posted by burton on March 5, 2008 at 8:54 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Build it and they will come? I really don't care for King Riley but he may be right on this one. We have to think in the future and what the population in the Tri-Country area will be like in 10+ years. My only concern is paying for this thing while the population numbers catch up. The study says it is feasible so lets do more detailed studies, run the numbers, and see what happens. In the end, it will be us the taxpayers paying for it though; you know that.

But if we keep relying on foreign oil, then many of us will be wishing for this rail system when gas prices are $5 dollars+ a gallon like they pay in Europe.

Posted by Cid95 on March 5, 2008 at 9:29 p.m. (Suggest removal)

The primary, main, all-imporant crux of the issue was isolated in the 2nd post above by MajorJ.

density, Density, DENSITY

Or rather, the lack of it.

People are too spread out, workplaces are too spread out, schools are all over the place, entertainment is everywhere from the beach at IOP to the malls in North Charleston.

Look at, say, Tokyo which has an amazing train station. And FIFTY MILLION people to use it. There are train stations every few blocks. You can get within a 10 minute walk of EVERYTHING.

For public transport to work in the CHS area the way we live would have to change. I don't see it happening.

I guess every suburb, area could have feeder buses that drove around picking residents up then taking them to a more cental bus stop, then a bus network could take people to a few centrally located train stations, then the reverse from there. But, at present, the pain of driving isn't high enough.

It will come, but not soon.

Posted by zoomru on March 5, 2008 at 9:46 p.m. (Suggest removal)

What needs to happen is have state and local gov officials negotiate with Startech to purchase these machines in volume and stage them strategically to provide power for a statewide ELEVATED MONORAIL MAG-LEV rail system (Think DISNEY). Start small in each identified region and install
these STARTECH Plasma Units to power the rail system and use all "profit" to build out the rail system over time. Make it financially closed loop to keep it from being a political football or having politicians "rob" the "profit" to fund other crap!! Have Retired person be the czar so mayors dont squabble. (Like a supreme court judge. BUT HE IS NOT PAID...He is doing it for civic duty!! HIS/HER EGO will drive them. Have reporters watch him/her like a hawk!!!) Use highway and power line easements for elevated rail line pediments to minimize property owner issues. This is not rocket science!!! This newspaper should be blasting numerous officials. I dont think it took disney a decade to build their monorail. 250 million for a STARTECH is ludacris also. Negotiations for a volume purchase would be a first step by these so called consultants (Consultant Jennifer Humphreys of Wilbur Smith Associates ). Getting the rail system to pay for itself is a must. SCREW GRANTS??
or matching funds..it only opens the doors for politicians to rob and control it (Boston's BIG DIG).

"Riley had urged the subcommittee of Charleston Area Transportation Study to take the action now, to get things rolling with the state funding process, although it could be a year or more until a major study of the feasibility of commuter rail is completed".

They've known about the coming landfill issues......Hmm....are they looking forward at all?

Posted by rollo on March 5, 2008 at 10 p.m. (Suggest removal)

And where will these rail system machines make their stops? Calhoun and Rutledge in the morning? Calhoun and Ashley in the afternoon? That'll be sweet, Two of the busiest intersections in town brought down to a crawl in the name of 'progress'.

I never voted for the 1/2% sales tax increase, but that's what seems to have kicked all this new spending off.

This appears to me to be a huge step in the wrong direction.

But, I commute every day, what do I know about the issue?

Posted by zoomru on March 5, 2008 at 10:04 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Come on David and Tenisha....do some more investigating!!! Are we really going to open more lanfills??? Who is getting paid off for that?? How many more studies are needed?? Who is getting paid off for that?? Main station in Chasn Neck area near bridge intersection.....One near Montague .....one near Ashley Frustrate.....one near hwy 78 intersection...on to Summerville for the first line. Common sense rules. Yes ...density does determine the speed of further build out. But, build this first line and see how building changes around the stations within a 2 mile perimeter.