Black history may get big boost

Posted by nikkiP on July 30, 2008 at 8:29 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I kinda like the idea, especially if they don't put any kind of spin on it and just use historical facts or educated deductions. And no "white people are evil" stuff. It's an important part of history, yes, but I don't want to see it twisted one way or another.

That's an expensive museum, though. But maybe it will do something to help preserve our historic Plantations down here. I do get worried that the rapid development will start to affect the property lines.

Early- your wife teachers in CCSD? Brave woman, I'd be terrified to go into those schools for any reason. But I bet not only do they make her teach that for the entire month, but they probably don't let her say anything about how the north treated slaves.

Posted by BigSargeofSC on July 30, 2008 at 8:56 a.m. (Suggest removal)

"Americans tend to forget how intertwined the two histories are, said Lonnie Bunch, director of the national museum."

I'm with Early on this one. The one month of the year I can't wait to end if February. I'm sure there are better things to spend $300-500 million on that will serve all Americans, not just one race of Americans.

Posted by Chief_SittingBull on July 30, 2008 at 9:09 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Some of the more lucrative places to reside in and around Charleston are named [Insert Name] Plantation…Some folks are getting it shoved in their faces and some are getting their faces shoved into it.

I agree with you NP, there needs to be some clear cut standards.

Posted by roseb on July 30, 2008 at 9:17 a.m. (Suggest removal)

It will serve all americans. African Americans made great contributions to this country. It is time to tell their story because if some of you knew their stories you would not be making some of your comments.

Posted by nikkiP on July 30, 2008 at 9:24 a.m. (Suggest removal)

It is known that without the slave labor used since the colonies were established (Much of which was africans, but not all) the country would not have developed as quickly.

I think there's a fine line they'll need to fine. The difference between saying "Look what the black community has contributed" and trying to inspire others to be a positive influence, and giving the impression of "you owe me and because of something none of you had a hand in, I hate you." Let's hope this museum inspires the first.

And yes, it's alot of money, but they also have a Holocaust museum in DC. No one's complaining about that one.

Posted by nikkiP on July 30, 2008 at 9:32 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I was thinking about moving into the CCSD area when I got older. But if I do, I think I'll send my children to private school when that time comes.

You know, we actually have a women's month, hispanic, etc etc. I think there's a Holocaust day or week. But instead of using those as a tool in uplift people, they get twisted.
But maybe your wife will make a difference for someone, and it's better than nothing. Unfortunately, all I ever hear about is teachers being threatened and at times attacked, or just wanting to do something better for the students. But the administration never seems to help them, and it's a shame. A few of my friends graduated recently and have been offered jobs to teach in CCSD, but they refuse. Seems like the school district is destroying itself.

Posted by Diamondhead on July 30, 2008 at 9:43 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Just me the word, I’ll go to the cemetery, dig up these bastards and make plantation owners apologized for slavery. History is exactly that…history. We learn from history but we’re not here to be part of it. To make a connection of a wrong that happen a long time ago with a group of people today serves no one. I see no dividends in race relations by advancing white guilt when people living today had no part of slavery or segregation.

Posted by belovedbliff on July 30, 2008 at 9:49 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Early, your claims about your wife teaching black history the whole month of February are suspect and any educator on this board would agree with this. That would be 20 days that students were not being taught the STATE mandated standards. Both the teacher and the principal would get in trouble for this.

Posted by amicus_non_ego on July 30, 2008 at 9:55 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I find it illogical and incontrovertibly ironic that African-Americans cry for equality, but shockwaves of anger and indignation resound in the community if someone proposes a public system that doesn't provide them with Affirmative Action job quotas (which only perpetuates lower standards for performance based on race instead of merit), constant barrages in the face of the public about "Black History" (which only perpetuates a divided and caustic perspective of history), and all the additional echoes of reparations.

Racism is certainly born out of ignorance, and education is the key to erasing it. But if social equality is ever to become less than an illusory ideal, the constant demarcation of race lines in all facets of the society will have to change. Despite African-American goals, their zeal and fervor with "Black pride" ostracizes them more than anything. The only white people you see organizing and flaunting their "whiteness" are Nazis and Klan members, and anyone with half an education knows how useless and awful that kind of mentality is. While that may be an extreme example, and racism is a broad spectrum of ignorance and hate, the stereotypes and inequality is fueled by the African-American race-based entitlement endorsed by the government.

I'm sure, I'll be crucified for these thoughts, but true equality requires the erasure of race lines....not the entrenched misplace pride we deal with constantly.

Posted by justus1017 on July 30, 2008 at 10:01 a.m. (Suggest removal)

YOU ALL ARE CRAZY. THEY ARE TEACHING CHRISTOPHER COLUMBUS FOUND AMERICA. HOW THE HELL HE DID THAT WHEN PEOPLE WERE ALREADY LIVING HERE. BAN THAT FROM YOUR HISTORY AND A WHOLE LOT OF OTHER HISTORY THAT CAME FROM ENGLAND RECORDS.ALL WHO CAN'T TAKE IT FLOAT BACK ACROSS TO YOUR ANLGO SAXON HERITAGE AND LEAVE THE INDIANS, MEXICANS AND AFRICANS IN AMERICA. THEN THIS COUNTRY WILL BE AT ITS BEST

Posted by Chief_SittingBull on July 30, 2008 at 10:16 a.m. (Suggest removal)

“Despite African-American goals, their zeal and fervor with "Black pride" ostracizes them more than anything. The only white people you see organizing and flaunting their "whiteness" are Nazis and Klan members, and anyone with half an education knows how useless and awful that kind of mentality is.”

Your elitist Eurocentrism permeates the entire board. Is it safe to say that you are a Nazi or Klan member because as I see it you serve to epitomize “flaunting your whiteness.” Only a true xenophobe would have an issue with some who is obviously different AND whom you treat differently solely because they brown skinned, being comfortable with their difference.

“…true equality requires the erasure of race lines....not the entrenched misplace pride we deal with constantly.” You are absolutely right, and your ideology– like the blacks whom you feel have “misplaced pride”- are equally responsible for hindering the erasure of race lines.

Posted by nikkiP on July 30, 2008 at 10:29 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I think amicus had a good point at it's base- but limiting it to just black people would be the problem.
Affirmative action isn't just a product of the black community, it's any minority regardless of race or gender. For example, they're offering scholarships to women in Engineering. I find it offensive and useless, actually setting people back.

justus, I think you're missing the issue. First, Columbia didn't even land on America. That's the big problem. Second, he made a discovery that was unknown to Europe, hence why it was a big deal. Aaaand Africans were brought here (mostly against their will) so they were not natives.
You seem to be blaming everything that's wrong in America on white people. And it's the same thing people are currently doing on another thread on a different story right now, against black people. Both are shameful and an obvious way to pass the buck by different groups.

Posted by SCdeacinNYC on July 30, 2008 at 10:29 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Early, back at it again. One WHOLE month devoted to black history. I'm sorry you are suffering. I hope that isn't your wife's attitude. The problem is that the history is NOT treated equally or adequately within the American history spectrum. I learned hardly anything about the history of black americans (or any minority or ethnic group) in my middle and high school history classes. There would be no need for 20 whole days of "just" black history (though I think you are stretching just a bit) if it were adequately integrated into the American history curriculum as it should be, but it traditionally has not. When I did an internship with a community organization in Mississippi, arguably the state where the struggle for civil rights and basic survival was most dire for black americans, I was shocked at how little the students I worked with (all high school and middle school aged) knew about their state, the civil rights movement, and POST CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT (I also find it silly that we usually end American history studies there, like that was the end of the whole shebang, things happened after the 1960s!). Unfortunately, most of what I learned was from my wonderful parents, but everyone's parents aren't teaching the whole story. They are too busy on this board complaining about "other people's histories" being shoved down their throat. Ignorance breeds ingorance, obviously.

I would also like to interject an interesting anecdote from my high school years. As part of black history month at my school (though I have to say I don't remember anything special being added to the curriculum), we had a black history trivia contest. To encourage support and participation from, ahem, non-black students, some history teachers offered extra credit for those who participated. So ALL sorts of people participated, which is good "in principle." However it was a debacle. One of the teams we faced thought it was hilarious to answer Martin Luther King Jr. to every question. They thought it was the funniest thing ever, because as we know that's the ONLY black person to ever do anything according to most people in America. Part of me realized though, that they were only half-joking, that they honestly did not know much outside of MLK Jr. and Rosa Parks. Black history to them had been boiled down to "I have a dream" and someone refusing to give up their seat on a bus. It was mildly depressing to think that. Don't get me wrong, I think the way we teach history in general is horrible, most people not knowing our presidents, founding fathers, true reasons behind the civil war, world wars, et cetera. However, in a state with such an entrenched racial past, we will NEVER be able to move forward with that sort of attitude towards not just the history of a people but the history of our nation.

Posted by amicus_non_ego on July 30, 2008 at 10:30 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Chief -

Clearly you missed the point of my post. I suggest you read it again, perhaps with a dictionary if it was too much for you, and then respond appropriately.

You are not only wrong, but incredibly insulting to call me a Nazi or a Klan member. I have many friends who fall into racial minority categories, and many of them agree with me - that minority indignation is a primary force perpetuating racial inequality. My example of extreme "racial pride" by using the KKK is one side of the same coin that I was talking about. Blind racial pride does nothing for progress towards equal treatment. By segregating portions of history, demanding separate treatment in the workplace and other quadrants of society, and all the other lingering implications of the "reparation sense of entitlement" only diminishes the ability for true equality to exist.

And by the way, "Eurocentrism"?? Don't be retarded. Look up a word before you use it if you don't know what it means. I don't believe I made any comments indicating a defense of European Imperialism... You should read more.

Posted by Test2007 on July 30, 2008 at 10:33 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Ooooh BLACK history for a WHOLE 20 days!!! Good Golly Miss Molly that sure is bad.

WTF???

NikkiP - The "traditional" history (notice I didn't say white history, even though it IS) has a whole lot of "twists" to it. How about they do something about crap?

Frankly, I would be fine with no Black history month IF and only IF it was in the regular history classes. I would have no problem with it at all BUT jackasses like Early and his wife claiming that it is somehow a problem.

Early- your wife shouldn't be teaching any kids with that kind of mentality. She should resign if she feels that way. She doesn't think she can make a difference, she is probably getting her SC teachers loans paid off. I know they only pay it if you work for a title one school.

Posted by nikkiP on July 30, 2008 at 10:36 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Yikes, I meant Columbus didn't land on America.

I also find it a little sad how few race/ethnic/gender/relgious/whatever groups stand up for others. We have other months or weeks to discuss the history of these groups, but it never happens. I'd love to know about hispanic culture, but it seems the most of that I've gotten in school centered around taco day in the cafeteria.

Posted by Test2007 on July 30, 2008 at 10:40 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Sorry I'm with justus - Columbus' discovery is a crock.

Affirmative action wouldn't have been needed in the first place if there were equality in hiring/acceptance into schools.

Amicus - the quota thing no longer exists buddy, even in the most stringent AA programs. Also, WTF is wrong with having pride in your culture? Irish people show off their flags to demonstrate their "pride". Why the hell can't we?? Oh and thanks for generalizing a whole race. I appreciate it Mofo.

KKK and Nazi flaunt their ignorance not their race. I don't think every white person is a KKK member but I do think every KKK member is ignorant.

Posted by SCdeacinNYC on July 30, 2008 at 10:42 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Amicus, that's cute and very idealistic. But racial lines will never be erased. It's funny how people decry political correctness all the time but the same people get on this board and say some of the post over-the-top lovey dovey PC crap I've ever heard,

"but true equality requires the erasure of race lines....not the entrenched misplace pride we deal with constantly."

Race is a reality, it's not going to go away. No one is inflaming it by pointing out its prominent role in this country's past. This live and let live, let's all join hands and forget our differences crap is for the birds. We ARE different, recognize it, embrace it and enjoy it. Diverity is what makes America, America. And part of it is the knowledge and appreciation of other cultures, not just your own.

Posted by nikkiP on July 30, 2008 at 10:42 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I think it's unfair to assume how Early's wife feels. So far I've only gathered that she wants to make a difference, and doesn't like the multiple field trips because it takes kids away from their other studies.

They always hide the "ugliness" of what happened. I was probably a freshman in highschool before I even knew Columbus was a slave trader. But most of it is European centered because for at least 10 years of your schooling they base the history lessons on exploration of the world, a great deal of which was done by Europeans. They don't even teach much on the trading and societies of the early civilizations in Asia (russian, chinese, etc.) Which, might just be because they focus on Rome, Greece, and England as they sort of paved the path for current society.
Of course they also fail to tell you (until much later in school) that a great deal of North America had also been discovered by Vikings.

Posted by Lovely_One on July 30, 2008 at 10:42 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Yeah, I can't buy that the teachers were forced to teach nothing but Black History during the month of February. I volunteer at my kids' schools and they have a special block set aside during that month to concentrate on BH but they do teach the other core objectives and criteria.

Posted by nikkiP on July 30, 2008 at 10:45 a.m. (Suggest removal)

And quotas do exist. They still use it in college applications and how they hand out scholarships. Also in hiring in certain fields. I was actually told I had to be hired for an internship because I was a girl.
It's deplorable, and I can't stand it. I get tired of people treating me like I didn't earn my degree and work just as hard as my male counterparts in class.

Posted by nikkiP on July 30, 2008 at 10:47 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Posted by SCdeacinNYC on July 30, 2008 at 10:42 a.m.

I like this. This makes sense. And also kinda explains the problem with "White" as a race. Erm, ethnicity rather. You can be of russian origin, or irish origin. Both considered white, but different history. Still... both made great contributions in alcohol.

Posted by Test2007 on July 30, 2008 at 10:49 a.m. (Suggest removal)

If we didn't accept the whitewashing of history as if no other group added anything of importance to society there would be no need for women's history month, black history month, asian history month, etc. Personally I would like american history to be taught from the beginning, that means pre-colonization. Pssh, that will never happen. They will never ever teach about the massacre and subsequent cultural genocide of native americans. I wonder if they still skip over slavery like they did when i was in school. People need to realize that history should be taught without censor.

People like Early and his wife view it as an obligation. If his wife, as a teacher, stopped to think about that month and created something great for that time period she could really do well with the kids. I am sorry but if the majority of the kids in her class are black then that kind of attitudes sucks. Also, you want to talk about a "waste" of time? A friend of mine is a teacher at a school that isn't Title one and they took 6 weeks, read it again, 6 WEEKS out of their lessons to put on a school performance. So no, 2 field trips should not be a hassle or an obligation.

Posted by amicus_non_ego on July 30, 2008 at 10:51 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Test2007 -

Much like Chief Sittingbull, you missed the point of my post.

First off, I never said stop being proud of who you are. It is the blind pride and sense of entitlement based upon nothing more than race that I was discussing. Secondly, explain to me how I generalized an entire race. I fail to see what you are referring to. If anything, I was generalizing the government endorsement of a prevailing current of attitude across the country. Thirdly, quotas are the defining characteristic of Affirmative Action. Schools and employers recieve benefits for meeting "diversity initiatives" by reaching certain percentages. You are quite wrong.

And if you are simply arguing semantics when you say the Klan doesn't flaunt blind racial pride. It may stem from ignorance, but they yell "white power" and not "idiot redneck power."

Posted by nikkiP on July 30, 2008 at 10:57 a.m. (Suggest removal)

No, they still teach slavery and what happened to the native americans in school. Things must have changed in the era since you've been out of school. Granted, I learned more of it in Arizona as far as the native american history went, but probably for obvious reasons.

Actually, in high school we watched "Amistad" and were fortunate enough to take a trip to see the ship since it was docked in Charleston at the time. I forget if it was just a replica, or the actual Amistad that had been redone.

Posted by amicus_non_ego on July 30, 2008 at 10:59 a.m. (Suggest removal)

SCdeacinNYC -

AGAIN - read my post. You miss the point like all the others.

You'll never peg me as a PC kinda guy. I am not looking to erase all indications of diversity and a create a raceless circle jerk. My "erasure of race lines" concerned the use of race in hiring, segregated pockets of history in education, et cetera. Wave your flag, yell on the street about how awesome your race is.... Be proud. But don't stick out your hand for a free ride or extra recognition in a country where opportunity has always been based upon personal hard work and effort instead of some unfounded sense of entitlement. All that does is perpetuate inequality. To say otherwise is painfully obtuse.

Posted by Test2007 on July 30, 2008 at 11:02 a.m. (Suggest removal)

WTF is blind pride? Please define. A sense of entitlement? That comes in ALL races. There you go generalizing AGAIN.

generalization #1 - "I find it illogical and incontrovertibly ironic that African-Americans cry for equality, but shockwaves of anger and indignation resound in the community if someone proposes a public system that doesn't provide them with Affirmative Action job quotas"

generalization #2 - Despite African-American goals, their zeal and fervor with "Black pride" ostracizes them more than anything.

Amicus - quotas are not involved in the AA process and they are not the "defining characteristic" of AA. I worked at a company where I was the ONLY minority and there were NO diversity programs at all, so no I don't think that is the case. Furthermore, if employers hired equally it would not be needed in the first place, now would it? I have only seen diversity programs at larger companies who could care less about receiving benefits from anyone even though you are wrong about them receiving that kind of assistance period. My company now has it, guess what, we have a women's group, an Asian group, black, hispanic, LGBT, international (foreign workers) etc

Posted by SCdeacinNYC on July 30, 2008 at 11:03 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Amicus you generalized when you said:

Your generalization is clear as you are stating this as this is a fact of all Black Americans, that all black americans believe these things. It was a definite generalization. Moreover, your characterization of people who support black history to people who have a sense of entitlement is also a generalization and a stereotype. Finally, quotas of percentages and actual numbers rarely exist especially in the post 1990s and Supreme Court ruling world. They didn't exist much before that either. Like I said on another board about this same and unrelated topic of affirmative action. Some people (note the non generalization here) have the view that it benefits ONLY Black Americans who are undeserving and who are looking for a handout. Affirmative Action works many ways, but if it's so prevalent in our culture I don't see how it's worked to the success of Black Americans.

My friend is at a top 20 law school, she's one of 8 black Americans in her law school class of 200.

I went to a private university where in the freshman class you could count on one finger the number of black men who were there NOT for athletic reasons (5 to be exact, of a class of 1000).

Many medical schools have a percentage of black students at about 5% or less.

At the top companies and corporation there are very few black executives.

So assuming ALL of these people made it there because of affirmative action (as many on this board would), I would have to say, I don't see what the big deal is because its impact is minimal at BEST. There would not be a need for any sort of "affirmative action" program if the playing field were level, if people were not denied jobs or promotions because of their race or gender as they still are today and mostly if people on this board didn't have the attitude that most black american or any minority group out for a undeserved "handout" from the government.

Posted by nikkiP on July 30, 2008 at 11:09 a.m. (Suggest removal)

USC had less than 100 black males not affiliated with athletics attend. They didn't say anything about other minorities.

But I'd like to know how many applied. I love my school, but it's not hard to get in. Is there a place to find out how many minorities of which group APPLIED to these institutions?

Posted by Test2007 on July 30, 2008 at 11:15 a.m. (Suggest removal)

nikkiP - It is wrong for Early's wife to feel the way she does and teach anyone's kids too. I doubt she wants to make a difference with that kind of attitude. We do not live in a colorblind society. You don't have to teach black kids differently than other kids but recognize their experience may not be like your own (if you are of another race).

Also, did you decline your internship?? It seems like in your opinion that would be the "right" thing to do. If you were not qualified for it I am sure you would not have goten the internship in the first place. You may want to look into the fact that someone told you that you got it b/c you're a girl.

amicus- you are still generalizing a whole race. Oh and get off of your high horse. Opportunity has NOT always been based on personal hard work and effort. If that were true then a lot of struggling working folks would be doing much better than they are. Free ride? You are living in a dream land filled with BS if you believe that. I was always told from the beginning that I had to work TWICE as hard as my counterparts to do accomplish anything. You are constantly assuming things. Sense of entitlement?

BSBSBS and more BS

Posted by SCdeacinNYC on July 30, 2008 at 11:16 a.m. (Suggest removal)

"Be proud. But don't stick out your hand for a free ride or extra recognition in a country where opportunity has always been based upon personal hard work and effort instead of some unfounded sense of entitlement. "

LOL more generalizations. The biggest generalization is about how America has worked. Yes America has rewarded personal hard work and effort, but it's also awarded thethose "who start out with more, end up with more" mentality. Meaning opportunity is often afforded to those that don't deserve it, and I'm not talking about all the greedy minorities and women looking for affirmative action handouts. Let me point out again the last effects of nepotism and legacies especially in the employment processes and admissions policies of the most elite companies and universities in our country. Secondly, America is "ideally" built on this Horatio Alger myth that you work hard and you will succeed. I say ideally, because I think it's a load of crap mostly. Many people work hard their entire lives and never succeed and it has nothing to do with their on personal effort, just the way this country works, for better or for worse.

America is an individualistic country where we all would love to believe we "did it on our own." Hardly anyone can say that, I know I can't...somewhere down the line you were afforded an opportunity and some of us deserved what we got and many don't. It's easy to pinpoint those you think are "shouting for handouts" but what about those many, many more who have been given handouts their entire years to supplement an already ample headstart. To suggest that America is some great scheme where this doesn't come into account is naive at best.

Posted by SCdeacinNYC on July 30, 2008 at 11:21 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Nikki, USC really?? I would like to know how many people applied also.

My alma mater only has about 4000 students so the impact is a lot less but still obvious at a private university. When our school discussed the topic of diversity we had to argue that while we tried to attract black and other minority students to the school (as well as kids from other geographical locations) it became obvious that it all began at home. Education is complex in America, there's a long road before you may even make it to the end line which is attending university. Lots can happen before then and for many students its: not going to a school that is academically sufficient, not setting college or university attendance as a goal because of views about education in general and finally and most interestingly enough being discourage by school officials or family members to attend universities. Students even discourage themselves. If the number of applicants is low, it's definitely the problem. I knew plenty of kids who could have applied to college but wouldn't because of perceived financial problems and lack of motivation from both parents and themselves. It's just sad.

Posted by amicus_non_ego on July 30, 2008 at 11:22 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Guys,

You're correct. I generalized...but my claims are directed at a general minority sentiment. I have to generalize. I can't say, "that black guy or that hispanic guy", because we were discussing a broad topic. While I could have been more specific and say "those" people, I just said people. Focus on the argument and not the inconsequential inferences that you sub in to collaterally attack the merits of what I actually said. Your claimed successes as minorites support my argument entirely! Your merits got you to where you are, not your race. Of course you don't see it in a top 20 law school, medical school, or great private universities, because AA doesn't erase all standards. Fact: less blacks do well enough in school to reach those levels of professional education. (The inequality perpetuated by the reverse racism I was discussing is a definite contributing factor.) AA's effects aren't felt there because of that. AA exists, and despite your lack of personal experience, (you should be proud of that), it has reverberating effects that carry detrimental results to the ultimate goal: true equality. I am not contending that racism against minorities doesn't exist. I am not contending that the blame rests solely upon the "free ride seekers". I am simply stating the fact that the mentality I was discussing perpetuates it. You can't argue that...

Posted by Test2007 on July 30, 2008 at 11:23 a.m. (Suggest removal)

nikkiP - learned ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about native americans and only a slight touch of slavery. I went to school k-12 in SC. Go figures.

I graduated from a women's college so I didn't have to deal with that athletic scholarship crap. We didn't really have any good sports programs.

SC - It is just what EY was talking about yesterday, no matter what you accomplish some idiot will think it is because of AA.

Posted by nikkiP on July 30, 2008 at 11:25 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Because she wants to teach the reading and math? Bear in mind, what you read is Early's feelings on what his wife does.

I found out halfway through the summer, from one of the engineers that looked at the resumes. I can't imagine why he'd even tell me that, I thought it was a little rude. And while he said I was still qualified for the job, I do worry that future employers or clients might look at me and think "She got it because she was a girl" and not have the same respect for me they would a male in my place.
First plant trip I ever went on, the guy giving the tour kept using small words and talking to me like I was an idiot. Meanwhile the guy next to me had no clue what was going on and kept asking me.

Regarding AA and quotas, since you said you had some experience with it, have they ever denied a job to a "majority" member and given it to a minority instead, just because they needed that minority? That seems to be a big worry with people, is that someone is being passed on for a job because of something they can't help.
I could understand if they candidates were equal, and race was the very last deciding factor. But I've heard that is a big concern.

Posted by BigSargeofSC on July 30, 2008 at 11:36 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Time to tell the story? You can't help but hear the story, even if you don't want to hear any more about it. I'm well aware of the stories and I've visited several black history museums, including the Harriet Tubman Museum in Macon, GA. I've also had the extreme honor of meeting one of the Tuskegee Airman. My sense of diversity doesn't just stop with black and white. Therefore, my point stands that this museums doesn't not represent all Americans, just a part of them. You want to make a museum that represents all Americans, make it one that includes all of the various ethnic backgrounds that have forged American history.

Posted by nikkiP on July 30, 2008 at 11:36 a.m. (Suggest removal)

test- I came to SC and started school here around 4th or 5th grade. So I've had a mostly south carolina education. It's been... an experience. I took mostly honors in high school though, and I think it makes a huge difference. You want to talk about a waste of education time? It's called CP English classes...

SC- Yeah, I couldn't believe it either. I find the numbers a little suspect. We were told that by our RA bosses during training last year. I think they were telling us it was our fault. But we either have ALOT of black atheletes (which we do) or someone can't add. Which they probably can't.

but I agree that it all starts much earlier than just the application process. I've known (mostly white) kids that didn't do anything after highschool because they were never really encouraged. Their parents wanted them to just start working to "make more money" or they ended up in trouble. Our counselors didn't really help, either. You can't just expect people to suddenly accel at something when you've never helped them individually on it.

Posted by SCdeacinNYC on July 30, 2008 at 11:40 a.m. (Suggest removal)

But, according to your logic Amicus, AA would be at ALL those levels, including institutes of higher learning. Your generalization is that blacks don't normally do well enough to reach that level, but your underlying assumption that underserved minorities reach success because of AA seems to contradict your statement that AA hasn't made it to med schools or law school levels. You are still assuming that AA does not benefit merited individuals, but yet some invisible group of underserving people are benfeting. YOU are still not getting the point, which is that you have no idea who or what affirmative action even benefits. You just have this concept in your head that people who aren't deserving are benefiting and immensely at that. Well if those few blacks who have made it to that level aren't benefiting and are there on their own merits than WHO is benefiting (which was my original question anyways). Just people on the lower cusp of society? And if AA doesn't erase ALL standards (underhanded remark there), which standards does it erase. According to your logic, only some people benefit from affirmative action, and those people do because of lower standards. If that were the case, there would be more people in this positions I named earlier, not less.

I am really confused now as to what you believe.

I know you remember that the last AA case to go to the Supreme Court was a case based in the U of Michigan Law School, so obviously it does affect professional schools as well.

And save your condescending tripe about being proud over how you've made it somewhere on merits. Because of people like you, amicus, many minorities are always on the defensive about how they've succeeded. As Eyfig, said yesterday no matter what you accomplish as a minority to some its always because of AA and if not, it's truly condescending. If I were you, I would be more proud of a rich kid actually get a job on his own without his parent's connections, that is truly an accomplishment, rather than care about minority successes abd merits and how they got there. Especially since according to you, not enough of us are performing well enough to make it to the upper echelons either way.

Posted by Lovely_One on July 30, 2008 at 11:42 a.m. (Suggest removal)

nikki,

I must say that Early's assertion that his wife was instructed and only allowed to teach black history the whole month of Feb is unbelievable at best. I have never been in a classroom setting where the teachers were told to skip teaching Math, Reading, and Science so that they could concentrate on black history for the entire 6-8 hours they are in the classroom. Thet just doesn't seem plausible to me.

Posted by Chief_SittingBull on July 30, 2008 at 11:49 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Test, SCDEac…Think about it…Who is the one person who constantly posts and when confronted say, “ I didn’t say that!” “You did not comprehend.”

Get a life…say what the he** you mean and stop shifting the tides to match the sentiment. ..that’s cowardly…Did I use that word correctly? Take that to academia, pseudo-intellect.

Posted by Lovely_One on July 30, 2008 at 11:51 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Early: "My wife is a teacher and CCSD make her teach nothing but black history the entire month of February"

So, you meant that this is just during the time set aside for history or is this the entire day. That is where my confusion and disbelief come in.

Posted by Test2007 on July 30, 2008 at 11:53 a.m. (Suggest removal)

nikkiP - Was in honors and AP courses (science and english) in high school as well. The only AP history course available at the time was European history. The best history classes I took were in college because it was taught without censor. I also read and research independently. I don't take what is in the history book as an infallible truth.

Personally I just think Early is on his period this week. Someone needs to slip him some midol and a heating pad quick! Honestly, I remember our school having "black history" activities but now that I think about it, we never had actual lessons for it.

BigSarge- There are countless museums dedicated to Asians, Hispanics, Native Americans, Irish, Polish, Jewish and on and on so getting upset about this one doesn't really make sense to me.

Posted by SCdeacinNYC on July 30, 2008 at 12:01 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Lovely, why even try? You know he's over the top and exaggerating yet again, talking out of his bum.

LATE, you are not worthy of response. Your reputation precedes you as a fool. (Who may also have multiple personalities, or at least two people posting on your account.) Yes, you struck a nerve it's called my lack of patience for idiots. It's tested everytime you get on here with your high horse and your exaggerations about how hard your wife has had it as a teacher in CCSD. First, it's because she's been passed over for promotions because of AA. And now, she's forced to teach black history all day for 20 days straights. Excellent, I'm sad to know she has that sort of attitude especially if she has that attitude teaching people's kids. You get no sympathy here.

Seems like WE struck a nerve with you. You are ranting and your rage is showing, hold on a sec, don't blow your top off and think about what you've said. Your history tags YOU. Especially in the past two days, you've been on full race baiting attack. And yes I took the bait and accept your challenge. I can't believe you have the nerve to show your name LATE, since eyfig owned you yesterday....I can still smell the tire burns from where she ran all over you. You say I "think" I am educated, ha, well I certainly have nothing to prove to some rageaholic on charleston.net.

I have to bring up my brick wall comment again, aruging with some people (like you LATE) on this board is the equivalent to running into a brick wall head first over and over again, it's just painful so why even do it.

Posted by Test2007 on July 30, 2008 at 12:04 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Early - Your last two posts did not make a bit of sense but I'll bite on the last part.

You are ALWAYS the person who first mentions race negatively in an article. You are known for forgetting and coming back later on calling anyone who calls you out as a race baiter or trouble starter.

If your wife really wanted to make a difference she'd divorce your ass, obviously you seem to have a lot of "shortcomings". You apparently don't seem like the supportive type.

Posted by berthelot on July 30, 2008 at 12:04 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"Posted by roseb on July 30, 2008 at 9:17 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I would love to be educated. Please, post some articles for us to read. Enlighten us to the contributions of the African American population to our country that are so great to warrant a 300 - 500 million dollar museum.

I am not being sarcastic, but neither the article or any of the comments actually name any of the contributions that were made. Cite some specifics. Prove everyone wrong with facts.

I want to know exactly how the African American population has contributed to our country without European Americans, Native Americans, Asian Americans or any other type of American being involved.

It should be American history and it should be all inclusive.

Posted by amicus_non_ego on July 30, 2008 at 12:07 p.m. (Suggest removal)

SCdeacinNYC -

Look buddy, I am not condescending. I wasn't making underhanded comments. You are overtly defensive, and I think we know you'll probably blame that one on "people like me." Sweet irony with attacking generalizations, by the way.

My discussion concerning your failure to see AA at work in professional schools is based upon the incontrovertible fact that blacks simply don't apply. Whether it be apathy, public misinformation (doubtful), or the truth that they simply don't perform well enough in K-12 to go to college and beyond, is besides the point. (I am in law school now, and can attest to the fact.) While AA has little to no impact on these high levels of education, you have already conceded its existence! You're "see no evil hear no evil" mentality doesn't mean it has faded into the past.

But once again, we get dragged into arguing tangential factual disagreements when the main point is avoided....

My main point is that things LIKE AA, Black History month, and so on, only deteriorate the chance for greater equality and perpetuate segregationist ideals. That, my friend is what I believe. Instead of separating, incorporate. We need proper history, not two different versions.

I am on your side. I am not a racist. Get over yourself and think about things logically and perhaps your righteous indignation will subside long enough to recognize the problems I am pointing out.

Posted by Test2007 on July 30, 2008 at 12:07 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Lovely_One - I doubt they are spending ALL day on it. He's probably ranting about the history portion of the day.

SC - Yes, he does multiple personalities on P&C. Either that or someone else uses his name to post. Maybe it is his wife. If that is the case, she should be on more often and lock him out of the computer.

Posted by Test2007 on July 30, 2008 at 12:12 p.m. (Suggest removal)

berthelot - you are being sarcastic. It is not our job to educate your ass. Do some research. Read a damn book. Take a class.

amicus - If history was inclusive there would be no need for black history month. History is not inclusive. End of story. I love how you added this as well.

"My discussion concerning your failure to see AA at work in professional schools is based upon the incontrovertible fact that blacks simply don't apply. Whether it be apathy, public misinformation (doubtful), or the truth that they simply don't perform well enough in K-12 to go to college and beyond, is besides the point."

More generalizations. You can't make one post without a blanket generalization or stereotype to prove your point. IGNORE.

Posted by berthelot on July 30, 2008 at 12:12 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I should clarify my point. History is two things: 1) The truth and 2) what is commonly accepted as the truth.

You cannot get at the actual truth through this divisive form of education.

One must look at history from all perspectives. Perhaps the African American activists would be better off spending that 500 mil ensuring that the story is being told correctly in all museums rather than building a single elaborate museum that only recognizes one viewpoint. But hey, it isn't my money.

Posted by Test2007 on July 30, 2008 at 12:20 p.m. (Suggest removal)

berthelot - all museums? Sorry to inform you but if history could accurately tell every story, there would be NO museums. What is the one viewpoint that is being told? The black viewpoint? Kind of like the Irish, Asian, Jewish, Native american museums tell it from their viewpoint?

Having a museum is not divisive. It is informative. Is the Holocaust museum divisive?

Posted by SCdeacinNYC on July 30, 2008 at 12:20 p.m. (Suggest removal)

amicus, you aren't thinking about things logically. Firstly, you connected AA to Black History Month. I don't see how you got confused. AA benefits many people not just black Americans, so it's nothing that singles out anyone or any identity specifically. Black History month is abotu black's history, mostly in America. You are right in connecting the two if you are arguing that neither would have to exist if things were equal or better yet equitable. But my friend, the way to equality is not traced in your wishes that we can all forget about differences. That is not the road to equality. Many people have already chosen to forget that they are different or that others are different and hasn't furthered anyone's cause.

You may not realize it but you should be probably holding hands saying kumbaya somewhere because essentially that is your whole theory. Let's hold hands and assimilate and forget we are different. Whatever.

OF course I concede AA's existence. Have I not been defending it this entire article? My question to you (which you have NOT answered yet. )Is where is it most prevalent in your opinion, if it's not at these higher levels where it obviously has a larger impact. And if it's existence is so minimally recognized at this level, why was that the last battleground for AA? Come on get it together and answer my question Mr. JD in training. (thanks for throwing in there that you are in law school, here's another generalization, is that what makes you such an overcompensating pseudo-intellectual?, yes I have tons of friends who are lawyers but even they concede they are the worst in situations like THIS).

Posted by eyfigueroa on July 30, 2008 at 12:21 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"Fact: less blacks do well enough in school to reach those levels of professional education."

Wow.

Out of all of the comments this one actually struck me the most. It actually took my breath away. I’m not angry but very sad, so sad that someone as intelligent, articulate and obviously educated as amicus could put those words to paper. However, it is his observation/opinion and he clearly feels strongly that it is true. If anything I can appreciate his honesty even if I don’t agree with it. But the sadness is still there, for I normally see that attitude in many of the ‘regulars’ who post on this website. Their own general comments are very indicative of their mindset, experiences and intellect (or lack thereof). Though on occasion I ‘spar’ with them I don’t see them as any type of threat to me or mine. But when a poster such as amicus can say what he did, then I fear for my daughters, who soon will have to face people like that in academia and in corporate society. People whose first instinct is to believe as amicus believes. Will my darling first born deal with that when she walks the halls of Swearingen Engineering Center for the first time this August?

I took my time and read through everyone's posts. Especially Amicus, nikkip, test, scdeac, early. There were some very well thought out even logical concerns that were brought up in this discussion.

Regardless of how anyone may feel about AA, the legacy of that program has forever ‘colored’ the perceptions of too many people whose positions of power can and will dictate the path of future generations.

I don’t mean to sound dramatic, but today I feel demoralized and fearful for not only my daughters but for countless of others.

Amicus, you’ve done what NO ONE else could ever hope to do, make me reevaluate my desire and purpose for posting on this site.

Posted by nikkiP on July 30, 2008 at 12:25 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Test- You never had to take CP level classes? Luuuuucky. I want to say AP may have been our only non math/science AP course, but I guess that doesn't really say anything.

History classes are always skewed, and at times the students or teachers take them as infalliable and just kinda muck everything up. I'll only be taking one course at USC (holocaust history class, kinda excited) and I'm interested to see how they teach it in college vs. grade school.

And I like the idea of this museum, but think it needs to be done with the boundaries Chief and I had mentioned earlier. I think Test had made the comment on why the multiple months of concentrated history are used. And why is everyone all mad about this museum when there are several other museums like it? The reason they have SEPARATE museums is so you can learn, indepth, about one subject. Try having one building to describe the history of every culture in history that talks about it to such detail.

Even the smithsonian is multiple buildings. Get mad about that.

Posted by Test2007 on July 30, 2008 at 12:40 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Early - you don't know my education but if your wife has so many degrees then she should know why black history is important but having a degree does not equal having common sense.

Everyone knows that SOME african sold other africans, but what I DO hate is people thinking that this absolves europeans of enslaving people when they got there. I am sorry but that fact that they were enslaved afterwards is still a blemish on american history regardless of how they got there. That argument always cracks me up. "Oh well their own people sold them so no blame here". Nice.

NikkiP - No, I DID take CP courses for history and other stuff b/c honors and AP were only available for science and math (exception of european history). I mentioned earlier that I am interested in pre-colonization america and native american history in general (very broad but i don't care). Do you know that there were militant native american groups in the 60s and 70s as well? The history is so rich to me. I love learning new things (yeah corny).

EY - Sometimes I feel this way too but don't let that one person affect your feelings about posting. Sometimes I take a bit of a break and come back. Don't let it get to you.

Posted by realityhurts4real on July 30, 2008 at 12:48 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Life without Black People

At first these white people breathed a sigh of relief.

At last, they said, No more crime, drugs, violence and welfare.

All of the blacks have gone! Then suddenly, reality set in. The 'NEW AMERICA ' is not America at all-only a barren land.

1. There are very few crops that have flourished because the nation was built on a slave-supported system.

2. There are no cities with tall skyscrapers because Alexander Mils, a black man, invented the elevator, and without it, one finds great difficulty
reaching higher floors.

3. There are few if any cars because Richard Spikes, a black man, invented the automatic gearshift, Joseph Gambol, also black, invented the Super Charge System for Internal Combustion Engines, and Garrett A. Morgan, a black man, invented the traffic signals.

4. Furthermore, one could not use the rapid transit system because its procurer was the electric trolley, which was invented by another black man, Albert R. Robinson.

Oh yes, Thanks to Dr. Emeagwali & Dr Mark Dean both of whom are of African descent. They invented the protocols of the Internet to allow you to post your idiotic statements!

Posted by Test2007 on July 30, 2008 at 1 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Early - I guess the black man is keeping you down (sarcasm). I wish grandpa was alive to hear me say that.

Posted by realityhurts4real on July 30, 2008 at 1:05 p.m. (Suggest removal)

5. Even if there were streets on which cars and a rapid transit system could operate, they were cluttered with paper because an African American, Charles Brooks, invented the street sweeper.

6. There were few if any newspapers, magazines and books because John Love
invented the pencil sharpener, William Purveys invented the fountain pen, and Lee Barrage invented the Type Writing Machine and W. A. Love invented the Advanced Printing Press. They were all, you guessed it, Black.

7. Even if Americans could write their letters, articles and books, they would not have been transported by mail because William Barry invented the Postmarking and Cancelling Machine, William Purveys invented the Hand Stamp and Philip Downing invented the Letter Drop.

8. The lawns were brown and wilted because Joseph Smith invented the Lawn Sprinkler and John Burr the Lawn Mower.

9. When they entered their homes, they found them to be poorly ventilated and poorly heated. You see, Frederick Jones invented the Air Conditioner and Alice Parker the Heating Furnace. Their homes were also dim . But of course, Lewis Lattimer later invented the Electric Lamp, Michael Harvey invented the
lantern,and Granville T. Woods invented the Automatic Cut off Switch. Their homes
were also filthy because Thomas W. Steward invented the Mop and Lloyd P. Ray the Dust Pan.

10. Their children met them at the door-barefooted, shabby, motley and unkempt.
But what could one expect? Jan E. Matzelinger invented the Shoe Lasting Machine,Walter Sammons invented the Comb, Sarah Boone invented the Ironing Board, and George T. Samon invented the Clothes Dryer.

11. Finally, they were resigned to at least have dinner amidst all of this turmoil. But here again, the food had spoiled because another Black Man, John Standard invented the refrigerator.

Now, isn't that something? What would this country be like without the contributions of Blacks, as African-Americans?

Posted by belovedbliff on July 30, 2008 at 1:13 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Early, you changed your story--you said in the first post NOTHING but black history. Subsequent posts, you said that they do something related to black history for 20 days. That's two different things--substantially.

I reference black history month every day in February. I do the same for women's month and Native American month, too. If D-day falls on a school day, I talk about that (even though it is not my discipline) and the list goes on.

Posted by amicus_non_ego on July 30, 2008 at 1:16 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Eyfig... -

I did not state anything other than a fact. While a sad, depressing fact, it is nonetheless a fact. Poor standardized test scores, attendance rates, and less placement into college and post-grad programs are reality. I am not attempting to "generalize" as I see is the only point some can make, but whether or not you agree with me is irrelevant. The current state of Black education in America is depressing. Is it an argument for increasing quotas? Could be... But my original point was to attack the problem at the source, not provide fodder for supporting a shortsighted program like AA. Sure, short-term more minorities get jobs or into academic programs. Long-term, apathy and a visage of inferiority in the workplace and classroom will be the result. AA is the wrong way to cure the problems.

As to Test's comment, read what I wrote before you cop out with "generalizing therefore ignore." I wrote:

The capitalized portion is important, bud. I am not claiming those reasons are true. (Therefore not generalizing.) I was stating that they are inconsequential to the original point I was making.

As for SCdeacinNYC -

Don't be jealous. It is unbecoming of you. I revealed my current educational status to say that I understand the lesser impact in professional schools that AA has firsthand. That's all. It wasn't a boast, but then again, as defensive as you are I can understand why you would think so. Your question you seem to think I am avoiding has no bearing on what we were discussing. Whether the effect of AA is large or small, and the particular quadrant of society that it can be found, is irrelevant to the public perception of that kind of social program. That is the point I was getting at.

And the connection between the Black History Month and AA is quite clear. Separation as opposed to inclusion. It applies to all minorities who seek true equality. You'll never get there with backdoor handouts like AA. It is a short-term appeasement with detrimental long-term effects.

Posted by drp7773 on July 30, 2008 at 1:20 p.m. (Suggest removal)

naacp= colored folk...black history = Black folk and african american = huh .....I think they are trying to trap us on not being politically correct.

Posted by 3olivesmike on July 30, 2008 at 1:30 p.m. (Suggest removal)

The Post and Courier Sales Strategy: Run one or two stories each day designed to get the racists out from their hidey holes and clicking the web site so they can bilk advertisers. And there's no shortage of racists considering the quantity of print edition correspondence from Ladson, Goose Creek and other garden spots whenever Bob Ford or Jim Clyburn is mentioned. What a totally dishonest, worthless rag the P & C is.

Posted by SCdeacinNYC on July 30, 2008 at 1:55 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Education isn't valued in the black community because historically blacks weren't taught to value it, we were denied the right to read, write and have adequate school for generations. So what remains, a culture where being educated isn't a priority.
And your solution is to just forget that some people were treated differently than others for generations (and still are) and just realize we are all the same and that's how people will reach equitable standing. Great solution, I'll go write it up for the next United Nations General Assembly.

Fine Amicus, as long as you admit you are part of the problem because the "public perception" is really "YOUR" perception. Just admit it. You are assuming everyone has that view of AA because YOU do. You say the actual impact of AA is unimportant but then you constantly refer to backhand handouts. I think if you make statements like that, you need to back it up with evidence. Where are these handouts happening, what is the effect. If you can't back it up, you really have no proof that AA exists as you even say it does. You are trying to make a theoretical point about public perception but to say that the size and impact or perceived impact is irrelevant is not adequate enough response.

Finally it's hilarious that you think I am jealous. Egoism is unbecoming, you know. Congratulations on law school, I'm sure you got there because of all your hard work and preservence because that's the sort of opportunity that America affords you. (Sarcasm, yes) I don't know what law school you go to but your assumptions and your logic are faulty. Blacks do apply to many professional schools, it often depends on the school. I actually read a study that said black americans were more present at the higher level professional school than lower-rated ones because in my experience, if you've made it that far you've pretty much made it big. Also, depending on the school's location and reputation (especially among the minority communities) qualified black students may not choose to apply.

Are you absolutely sure that even at your law school, blacks have applied less and that there aren't other factors contributing to that.

Posted by nikkiP on July 30, 2008 at 2:08 p.m. (Suggest removal)

bahaha, reality, great series of posts. Especially since someone tried to claim black people have never contributed anything.

TEST- I know what you mean, though. History's always been fun for me, and I used to love going to DC to see the museums. Now I'm kind of excited that they'll have a new one to add.
And I had no idea there were militan Native American groups. Not sure how I feel about that, I'm a little "through peaceful" means, honestly.
Have you tried going to the bookstores at local colleges/universities? They'll sometimes have books on things like that. If USC has a Holocaust history class, I'm sure there's other things more like what you're looking for.

Posted by amicus_non_ego on July 30, 2008 at 2:26 p.m. (Suggest removal)

SCdeacinNYC -

I got to CSOL. Here are the numbers:

2007-2008: Minority applicants were 69 out of approx. 1200.

2008-2009: 196 out of approx. 1700.

This is taken from an article from June 30, 2008 SC Lawyers Weekly concerning our new Dean's approach to increasing diversity. Curiously enough, the article discusses firms that are seeking to hire more diverse staff wondering why schools aren't producing more minority candidates. Look at the numbers for that answer.

And if you think that since literacy was "outlawed" for slaves 200 years ago, the modern devaluation for education you claim is justified, than you are far more pathetic than I thought. If Blacks aren't taught to value education, blame parents, not history. That is a ridiculous cop out. Maybe if kids weren't worried about spinning rims and gold teeth, and more worried about test scores, your precious AA would be put to bed with the rest of your reparationist follies. Finally, (and I am really getting sick of repeating myself), you want me to prove that AA exists while on the same token you defend it? Irrelevant and already conceded. My point is not dependent upon the magnitude of AA's application, but rather the effect that backdoor policies like that have on the public perception of African Americans. Yes, that's my perspective. But if you think I'm alone, you are painfully naive and blind. If, in a competition for a job, someone gets it on account of race or gender - OF COURSE THAT'S A BACKDOOR HANDOUT. It wasn't decided on account of merit, which is how I got into law school by the way. I studied my F-ing a** off. Maybe you should argue for new government programs teaching work ethic, that will help your cause.

Posted by Test2007 on July 30, 2008 at 2:37 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Am I crazy or did the Charleston school of law just get accreditation?

Posted by amicus_non_ego on July 30, 2008 at 2:45 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Yep, it's a new school. I presume you have some underlying dig to post...

Posted by SCdeacinNYC on July 30, 2008 at 2:45 p.m. (Suggest removal)

ouch, low-blow TEST, though I did laugh. I'm sure CSOL is a good school, well actually I have no idea, i'm just giving it the benefit of the doubt. But it does go to my point that the higher qualified black students that do apply for professional schools usually attend higher-ranked schools with well-established reputations. All of my friends who are black that attend law school are in top 20 schools or pretty close. I read an article about it in sociology, about why the highest performing black students are all overachievers in that respect.

But Amicus, it seems you are angered and have tripped up over your own argument. I detect a bit of bitterness in your tone. I hope you realize that your solution is as easy and simplistic as your decision to blame things such as AA and Black History projects as the reasons why are nation is divided and inequality persists. Good luck with that explanation.

Posted by notanotherdumbassposter on July 30, 2008 at 2:49 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I want a national vaginal Americans day! Mother's day don't count because not all are mothers.

Posted by Test2007 on July 30, 2008 at 2:58 p.m. (Suggest removal)

uh huh

Posted by amicus_non_ego on July 30, 2008 at 2:59 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I never blamed AA and Black History for the basis of social inequality. They are simply cogs in the wheel. Repeating myself, yet again, the separation as opposed to inclusion only perpetuates it. And if I sound bitter, it is because I continue to repeat myself, and because of your (and Test's) inability to have a rational discourse without resorting to insult. As you fail to address anything I have said at this point, I am going to stop wasting my time. Keep blaming "history" every time another black on black murder or another high school drop out gets caught dealing drugs on America Street. Good luck with THAT explanation.

As for my school, it will defend itself on the merits of its alumni. I decided I wanted to practice in Charleston, and thus it was the best place to make the right connections to that end.

Posted by Test2007 on July 30, 2008 at 3:11 p.m. (Suggest removal)

*snicker

Posted by nikkiP on July 30, 2008 at 3:13 p.m. (Suggest removal)

We already have a Women's History Month. in march.

Posted by notanotherdumbassposter on July 30, 2008 at 3:22 p.m. (Suggest removal)

How about native american history month? They have been deprived much more than those with more pigment.

Posted by sc4peace on July 30, 2008 at 3:24 p.m. (Suggest removal)

history is history- we should all learn about everything that makes up history- if you don't like the way things unfolded, then build a time machine and go back to change it- Slavery happened- it isn't happening now- yes there are still many racist people in this world- but they aren't all white- I can't tell you how many times I have been called "cracker" and that "white girl"- I don't get mad at the whole race- I just consider the individual ignorant...I am fine with having a black history month- but if it's all about equality- don't fight it when a caucasion history month is introduced, or an Asian history month- we are all immigrants- if anyone deserves an apology, it's the Native Americans who we butchered and stole from- it was their nation originally- and they don't even have a month

Posted by nikkiP on July 30, 2008 at 3:40 p.m. (Suggest removal)

You can't have a "caucasian" history month.
Where exactly is Caucasia? I'd like to find the land of my ancestors, where we can all do our ethnic dance or shaking our butts, waving our arms in the air and shouting "Woohoo!!"

There are weeks/months for everything. I didn't even know about Women's History month until this year.

Posted by Test2007 on July 30, 2008 at 3:46 p.m. (Suggest removal)

All - November is Native Americans history month.
Asian - Pacific history month - May

Why should there be a caucasian history month when I learned about caucasian history all the time?? I never understood the validity of that argument. What the hell is being taught the other months in a year??
Jefferson
Paine
Edison
Columbus - pssh

If you are going to try to make a point please have some facts.

Posted by nikkiP on July 30, 2008 at 4 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Ha, good point Archdude. But the point I was mostly trying to make is that I hate the term caucasian. I have no idea why, it's bothered me since I heard it when I was little. I can stand "white" but caucasian bugs me. I guess because saying Black and White refers to a skin color, and that's one thing. But saying "Caucasian-American" is like saying "African-American." Africa is indeed a continent with black people.
Caucasia... not so much.

Thomas Jefferson wrote the Declaration of Independence. That's pretty important when it comes to American history.

Posted by Test2007 on July 30, 2008 at 4 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Archdude - Caucasian history is every damn month. If history taught in school wasn't almost completely white there would have been no need to have a month. Seriously, the arguments on this board are ridiculous.

Um, all the black people I know have african ancestry. A lot of them have european ancestry as well but that statement was completely off. If they didn't have african ancestry they probably would not be considered black at all. Even in other countries with "black" populations (brazil, mexico, etc) it is acknowledged that black people are descendants from africa. They may have some european mixed in but you can bet african is what is in there the most.

Posted by STREETLAW on July 30, 2008 at 4:04 p.m. (Suggest removal)

We have come a long way since Black History was discovered in the 70's. Up until that time, blacks apparently had no history.

The white dominated press obviously suppressed stories about great African scientist, military leaders, doctors, authors, theologians, musicians, builders, and so forth for all these centuries.

And while modern black history stills seems to keeps us in the dark about their ancestry, at least we can enjoy learning about their current achievements thanks to the brave people at the Smithsonian.

I wonder if whites have a history? If it does, I'm sure we will find it in the Smithsonian too.

Posted by Test2007 on July 30, 2008 at 4:04 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I didn't say we shouldn't learn about jefferson but acknowledge that most history being taught year round would be considered "white history".

Posted by Lovely_One on July 30, 2008 at 4:06 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Test and SCdea you ladies have been busy today. Lol!

Posted by nikkiP on July 30, 2008 at 4:10 p.m. (Suggest removal)

yeeeah, because most history year round is about colonizing in the world, especially the western hemisphere.

The reason "black history" works is the similarity most black Americans have of coming from Africa during the slave trade. though it should be noted that not everyone came with that. And that not all slaves were kidnapped, but sold by their tribal leaders. Or "American-Africans." ( I wish I could remember that country, crap)
"White history" is too diverse. Spainish history is completely different from Irish history. Even regarding America's history, there is the issue of having so many cultures.

Posted by SCdeacinNYC on July 30, 2008 at 4:16 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Yes Lovely, I'm needing a martini at this moment to cure my annoyance headache.

Posted by Test2007 on July 30, 2008 at 4:20 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I am going to make strawberry shortcake this weekend if it kills me.

Posted by nikkiP on July 30, 2008 at 4:34 p.m. (Suggest removal)

what? martinis? strawberry shortcake? mmmmm

Posted by nikkiP on July 30, 2008 at 4:35 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Well crap, if you'll look at it like that we're all just fishies and you're my cousin.

Posted by Test2007 on July 30, 2008 at 4:49 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Archdude - um most blacks in the US have african ancestry from the western portion of the continent for the most part, besides that, we don't know much. Why? Stolen history anyone? What is your ancestry? I bet you could tell me something like, British, Irish, Swedish etc. Well, we don't have that luxury thank you very much.

What do you care about slaves in other parts of the world? You only care enough to try to prove your point at this one moment.

Note - You DO know that not everyone believes that life started in Africa right? I believe it but you'll have a hard time pushing that on others. Also, we've gone over this before, if history was taught properly there would be no need to separate it.

Posted by Girleygirl on July 30, 2008 at 4:49 p.m. (Suggest removal)

LMAO @ Nikki

Posted by nikkiP on July 30, 2008 at 5:01 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Honestly, and you might disagree, I kinda don't mind the history being taught separately. Maybe it needs to be a little more evenly spread, though. Gives you a chance to really get into that culture when you go over it. Same idea behind the multiple museums.

Anyone ever think that maybe someone at PnC puts together stories that will eventually lead to these discussions? Someone is laughing at us right now..

Posted by sc4peace on July 30, 2008 at 5:03 p.m. (Suggest removal)

NAACP- help your brothers out in Darfur

Posted by nikkiP on July 30, 2008 at 5:08 p.m. (Suggest removal)

LIBERIA! that's the name of it. ha, I feel better now.

Posted by nikkiP on July 30, 2008 at 5:17 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I was trying to remember the country established in Africa for freed slaves to emigrate to. Once they got there, they referred to themselves as Americans and didn't assimilate into African culture.

ten more minutes at work... omg my brain is turning to mush. This is why I look up random stuff on wikipedia.

Posted by STREETLAW on July 30, 2008 at 7:12 p.m. (Suggest removal)

We have come a long way since Black History was discovered in the 70's. Up until that time, blacks apparently had no history.

The white dominated press obviously suppressed stories about great African scientist, military leaders, doctors, authors, theologians, musicians, builders, and so forth for all these centuries.

I wonder if whites still have a history? A better question if Obama gets elected might be do whites have a future?

If it does, I'm sure we will find it in the Smithsonian too.

Posted by LadyTarHeel on July 30, 2008 at 8:28 p.m. (Suggest removal)

WOW!!! I take a day off from school and reject my computer for the day and I miss all the excitement!!! Black History Month wouldn't be so bad if they taught about more people than Martin Luther King, Jr, Malcolm X, Harriet Tubman, and all the other AAs we learn about each February. What about EE Just, a wonderful scientist who was born and raised in Charleston and went on to break down barriers for other black scientists like myself.

Black history may get big boost

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