Local workers: Increase not enough

KidYendor (anonymous) says...

The minimum wage is an example of socialist-authoritarian government rule. Minimum wage workers don't see the paperwork, taxes, quarterly withholding, and stifling laws that burden business owners relentlessly in so many ways. They only see the paychecks and think running a business is easy and simple. If only they could see the business's mailbox with weekly county, city, state and federal paperwork demanding more and more tax money which might instead go to workers. Minimum wage laws stifle freedom and drive up prices for everything we buy with each increase. It is a "vote for me and you'll make more" sham used by politicians to get elected. Minimum wage laws are liberal government at its worst.

July 24, 2008 at 1:03 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Smart_Enough_2_Know_Better (anonymous) says...

Minimum wage + day care + three kids = negative cash flow

Gotta change the equation: either get some skills to earn more money, stay home or use a condom. It's a little late for birth control and you can't be that smart if you made it all the way to the third kid before you realized you had a problem, so I hope you like daytime television...

July 24, 2008 at 1:54 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

FiscalConservative (anonymous) says...

WHO ACTUALLY MAKES MINIMUM WAGE!?!?!?!?!?!?

I have worked various jobs since I was 16 and have never made minimum wage in my life, even internships I had paid well.

STAND828--- I hate to disagree with you too. Minimum wage laws are stupid. These jobs are no-skill jobs so there are no barriers to entry (education and training). If one job is paying too little, people will find one that is paying a little more and flock there, that wage goes down, that other business will raise its wages to attract workers, and so on and so forth til a wage is set. But if you break the law and hire illegally, the wages will be artificially low. These aren't doctors we are talking about. You keep raising minimum wage and all prices will go up, making higher earners actually earn less.

If suddenly one of your inputs (land, labor, or capital) goes up profit margin goes down, price goes up. Companies don't pay for increases, consumers do.

I can't wait for the inevitable, maximum wage laws.

July 24, 2008 at 6:48 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

geekboy (anonymous) says...

"James Island Kangaroo employee Christine Dewar said she makes $8 an hour and that the government should give her a raise. She and her husband, an electrician, earn too much to qualify for welfare assistance, she said. They have three kids."

What? Why should the government give you a raise? Here's an idea... if your job doesn't pay much, don't have more children than you can afford to raise on what money you do earn.

July 24, 2008 at 7:36 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

ironhorse (anonymous) says...

"the government should give her a raise"

Christine, take my money in taxes and give it to you???? I have a feeling I'm already paying for your situation.

Quit working at Kangaroo and sell watermelons on the side of the road.

July 24, 2008 at 7:37 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Clemson1979 (anonymous) says...

LOL Iron. I think we all had a hard time swallowing when we read the part about the government giving her a raise.

July 24, 2008 at 7:44 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

justjerry (anonymous) says...

Before I feel sorry for the girl working at the Kangaroo I would like to know some things like whether or not they have cable TV at their house, how many phones do they have, how many cars do they have, do they receive an earned income tax credit, etc, etc. If they really look at their situation they might find that they would be better off with one of the parents staying at home and raising their kids.

July 24, 2008 at 8:03 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

nesseca (anonymous) says...

"Christine Dewar said she makes $8 an hour and that the government should give her a raise."

Unfortunately there are a LOT of people who think this way. The idea is perpetuated generation after generation.

We're doomed.

July 24, 2008 at 8:07 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Lovely_One (anonymous) says...

Raising minimum doesn't do a dang thing for my husband and me. We both make waaaaay more than minimum. I think that instead of just raising the minimum wage, they need to raise wages all together. Like Fiscal said, who the heck makes minimum wage anymore. This raise only helps the 16 year olds that are just getting into the job market.

July 24, 2008 at 8:10 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

dogwoodroad (anonymous) says...

It would be so very hard to live on minimum wage...

that being said, there are so many opportunities...you can get an education at a tech school for practically nothing and find a better job; you can use public transportation if gas prices are too high (or you can just ride a bike); you can stay home with your kids (I'm guessing that daycare eats up the entire paycheck)...

We are too dependent on our government in this country. The government isn't even her employer! Why should they have anything to do with giving her a raise? Where is the sense of personal responsiblity? I doubt this (our current state) is what the founders of our country had in mind...

July 24, 2008 at 8:14 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

lowcountrydawg (anonymous) says...

....it's called "minimum wage" not "paid what your worth"?

Remember, you choose your profession...

July 24, 2008 at 8:16 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

zekemire (anonymous) says...

Wages should only be set by the job marketplace. You cannot arbitrarily set a wage based on feel good ideas. Everyone who works does not have the same economic impact and therefore should not be paid the same amount. The government should be prvented by the Constitution from forcing a minimum payment to an employee. The job market will determine the "fair" rate of compensation!!

July 24, 2008 at 8:18 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

jifdeng3 (anonymous) says...

You want to make more money? Then get your butt in school. Im tired of hearing people freeking whine becuase they don't make any money, then you look at them. They come to work with their shirt untucked, hair all over the place and gennerally looking piss poor. Why should you get paid any more with that slack work ethic? Im sorry but take some damn responsibility for yourself and quit sitting around and boo hooing. There are tons of good paying jobs out there if you are willing to put in some work. There's a paramedic shortage, a nursing shortage, truck driving. I could keep going. TONS of well paying jobs. It just takes some self motovation to go out and get the skills. Where there's a will theres a way.

July 24, 2008 at 8:19 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

flinsc (anonymous) says...

If you think it is bad now, just wait and see what happens in November with the election. People will be waiting for handout for everything. Medical, housing, food. To pay for all of this everyone will be taxed more, so that 70 cent raise you just got will be taxed more, cost of goods will go up. People want government to bail them out all the time, we need to go back where there was little government. Should only be there to allow us to be free, not control. Anyone remember 1776?

July 24, 2008 at 8:24 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

guidedbystewart (anonymous) says...

It seems like many of you posters want to back to the good ole days of slavery. The minimum wage, even with the increase, is not a livable wage as it is. It was way over due and it should have been more. If you can not run a business paying people minimum wage, then maybe you're in the wrong business.

July 24, 2008 at 8:46 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

charleston_girl (anonymous) says...

I agree with justjerry. There are ways of 'cutting back'. I did it several years ago, and I don't miss having cable, internet,etc. I don't eat out anymore...always finding ways of saving a penny. It becomes a lifestyle, a simple way of living. I work and make $9.63 an hour and shop at Goodwill, Family Dollar.(The P&C article makes it sound like that's a pitiful thing to have to do!) I've had to work 2 jobs. I raise a child and have no one else to depend on. It's been very hard, but you do whatever works. Everyone is whining and expecting someone else to take care of them...like the government!!

July 24, 2008 at 8:49 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

dogwoodroad (anonymous) says...

I agree as well...I have had to cut back a lot due to going back to school (so that I can support myself without the government's help) - currently living off student loans, which I will have to pay back WITH interest! I only have $20 to last me until the end of the month...but I'm not asking for food stamps or government assistance!

BTW - I know lots of wealthy people who shop at Goodwill too...you can find some pretty cool stuff there!

July 24, 2008 at 8:53 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

jifdeng3 (anonymous) says...

Its not designed to be a living wage. Where did I suggest slavery or anyone else for that matter? I suggest going to school and getting a good job. Other people suggest the same thing. How about being responsible and not having three kids when you can't pay for them? I don't feel sorry for people who have no self motovation to do any better for themselves.

July 24, 2008 at 8:53 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

MsPiggy (anonymous) says...

Minimum wage was never intended to be something people 'live' off of. It was intended to be a starting point. The point of minimum wage is to start there, and work your way up. When I think of M. wage, I think of some 16 year old sophomore in high school bagging groceries at Bi-lo.

I'm sorry, but I don't feel sorry for Christine at all. She could become a waitress (which by the way, doesn't require experience or education) and make 250+ bucks in a weekend. Of course, how good of a waitress you are determines your cash flow. I'd give a newbie 3 weeks to a month and they'd be making money with the rest of them. She could work a double shift and pull in 100+ dollars in a day easily. Whatever. I waitressed for a year and a half and I saw a lot of money during that time. The resturant industry is desperate for workers. There are plenty of opportunities in that field to make more money. Whether it's overtime, or picking up somebody elses tables.

People need to get up off their lazy butts and stop whining and begging for money from the government. What they need to do is start to make something of themselves. Get skilled. Start a pressure washing business on the weekend. Do landscaping. God gave us talents and abilities for a reason, people. USE THEM!!!

July 24, 2008 at 8:58 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

guidedbystewart (anonymous) says...

Well making less than minimum wage is slavery for all intensive purposes. Many of you people need a history lesson. The Libertarian system DOESN"T WORK. There was a time in history when our government did little to regulate business and those times were atrocious. This was during the times of the early industrial revolution, and this was a time of deplorable work conditions, rampant poverty, child labor and truck system (have any of you guys heard of company stores (Not much different from communism)). If you believe me, maybe you should read Upton Sinclair's the Jungle.

July 24, 2008 at 9:17 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

jifdeng3 (anonymous) says...

We are not discussing making LESS then the minimum wage. Perhaps you need a reading lesson. We are discussing the fact that the minimum wage was not deasigned to be a living wage and that these people should have a little self motovation to advance into a decent job by taking the time to get an education. The socialist system doesn't work either. (Have you ever heard of a Trabant?)

July 24, 2008 at 9:29 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

SCHoser (anonymous) says...

This is not complicated at all-don't live beyond your means. Why in the world are people who make minimum wage having child after child anyway? Irresponsible to say the least. It is not up to the government to bail people out of situations that they have put themselves in. It used to be that when people first started out on their own, they started with the bare necessities, had roommates, no furniture etc etc. But now, people have to have big screen tvs, suvs, digital cable, cell phones galore, computers, laptops, ipods...all the latest and greatest gadgets. When in the world did all this start? It's taken me almost 20 years to get where I am, and I see people coming out of high school trying to have it all right from the jump! There are two ways of doing things...the right way and the wrong way. If you choose the wrong way, us taxpayers shouldn't have to bail ya out!

July 24, 2008 at 9:43 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

guidedbystewart (anonymous) says...

I can read fine, thank you. If you had not read some of the other post, many of the people have post comments about doing away with minimum wages. If we did away with the minimum wage requirement, you would be delusional if you don't think people would pay wages less than the current minimum wage (ie.slave wages). My comments were mainly addressing these people. I feel that there should be a minimum wage for people that are under 18, and then a minimum wage for people that are over 18. This wage should at least be a livable wage (while not a comfortable living).

July 24, 2008 at 9:50 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Lovely_One (anonymous) says...

archdude,

They are raising just about everything anyway and leading us to a possible recession, so they may as well raise the wages to compensate for the raise in everything else.

July 24, 2008 at 9:58 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

guidedbystewart (anonymous) says...

Yes jane, why do you think that the government allow illegals still (at least SC is somewhat changing this).
Also, Mexicans can live 15 to a trailer and send most of there money to Mexican, and I bet that few of them would even work for less than minimum wage( yes, I am against illegals but for a guest worker plan were they are paid non slave wages and taxes and so on).
Yep, I heard of the song, it is about the truck system, a common practice with both the coal mine and textile companies.

July 24, 2008 at 9:58 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

SmooveB (anonymous) says...

If somebody is making $16,640 a year with dependents, they *aren't* paying income tax.

More than likely, they are getting an Earned Income Tax Credit. The "credit" being paid by you and me.

The minimum wage is just a floor- it is nothing to aspire to or be content to stay at forever.

July 24, 2008 at 10:03 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

guidedbystewart (anonymous) says...

archdude, I don't disagree with you.
I am not for government hand outs, i am just against slave wages. I am not sympathetic to people that have little desire to better themselves. Able bodied peolpe have a responsiblity to work, put into the system, so forth.

July 24, 2008 at 10:10 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

wjhamilton3 (anonymous) says...

If only 2% of workers in the area earn minimum wage, this isn't a change which really matters. Nobody here seems to understand that our economy depends on people making and spending money. People earning low wages can't buy houses, which is why we have thousands of houses on the market here now. The general level of wages in Charleton is too low for its cost of living. Skilled workers and service workers can't stay here if they can't pay the cost of living from what they earn. If you read the reviews on trip advisor you see that a lot of our hotels get fairly poor reviews, apparently from being understaffed (there are some striking exceptions). If we can't server tourist because tourism doesn't pay enough to attract the labor needed to make the beds, I think we have a problem.

Houses which don't sell drive down the market value of real estate and tax revenues, forcing budget cuts, including economic development funds. Mt. Pleasant just terminated its economic development director and doesn't plan to replace him. Eventually, because they can recruit industrial and commercial tax base, taxes on residential will have to increase to maintain basic services.

In the old days food and housing were cheap in Charleston, but that ended years ago. Having a cost of living so far out of line with local wages is a structural problem. Left to the free market alone, the resolutions are pretty drastic. A crash in the value of real estate is one possible outcome. Loss of virtually all skilled labor followed by a market driven run up in wages for whoever is left is another. The market seeks balance locally and globally. There is no way to be sure it's results will be fair or pleasant.

We have a very real problem in our local economy. This isn't just a liberal thing. The Chamber of commerce will tell you the same thing.

July 24, 2008 at 10:13 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Lovely_One (anonymous) says...

archdude I get what you are saying, but with the rising cost of everything, we will not be able to afford the "essentials" pretty soon. I am not asking for a government handout and I was just making a tongue in cheek comment about raising everyone's wages. I know not everyone deserves a raise like I do, Lol. My point was that not many people who make minimum wage are over the age of 16-18 and those people still live with Mommy and Daddy. So, raising the minimum isn't helping the bulk of us that are already established in our jobs/careers and making well over $6.55/hr.

July 24, 2008 at 10:14 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Rebel_Yell (anonymous) says...

Stop complaining across the board--not just at the Kangaroo. Since everybody is so proud of their paychecks, no one should be complaining about filling up that luxury SUV. If you can't afford to keep it, you should go back to school and get a job that pays better so you can afford the luxury. Otherwise, get rid of a kid or wear a condom next time; across the board, this logic applies to everyone who lives larger than their means and has no savings, just debt.

July 24, 2008 at 10:14 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

CADguy (anonymous) says...

Some numbers for thought:

2.3% of the 300,000 working for minimum wages = 6900 employees in the Charleston area.

Using the national average of the 1.3m of the 1.7m are in high school, it leaves 23.5 percent not in High School earning minimum wage.

6900 x .235 = 1622 people not in High School making minimum wage in the Charleston Area.

So, out of the 300,000 workers in the Charleston area, less than 1% earn minimum wages (1622 / 300k). Not to bad of a percentage, I think.

Curious:
When does a High School student need to make more than $6.00/hour?

What percentage of the 1622 people receive government assistance? That should be calculated into the yearly earnings as income.

July 24, 2008 at 10:22 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

justus1017 (anonymous) says...

RAISE IN (MINI)MUM WAGE IS A JOKE. THEY TAKE THAT BACK WITH THE INCREASE OF TAXES. THIS TOPIC ISN'T EVEN WORTH DEBATING.

July 24, 2008 at 10:36 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Lovely_One (anonymous) says...

archdude,

I never said I needed assistance and I manage my money wonderfully. I don't drive an SUV, although a van that I can pay cash for is in my immediate future. I have 2 vehicles now; one is paid for and the other is soon to follow. I don't have cable, nor do my husband or I own a cell phone. I have only eaten out 4 times in the past 7 months (2 of those times was paid for by someone else). I don't eat at Firehouse Subs. My husband and I have a monthly budget that we stick to down to the penny. To save on electricity I don't run my AC in my house, we use ceiling fans and window fans. I don't use my clothes dryer, I hang my clothes out to dry. And there are so many other things that I do to make sure I am not living beyond my means, so that is not my issue.

I am just pointing at the fact that the price of everything is going up and wages are going no where. That is, unless you are a government official and get a lot of what I pay for for free anyway. And just so you'll know, I am pregnant with my 7th child as I have said daily on this board. Will that make me run out and get welfare or apply for food stamps? No. It will just make me budget tighter. But, I still stand by the fact that everything is going up and wages are stagnant. And I will continue to do what I need to do to make sure my family is comfortable and has the essentials to survive.

July 24, 2008 at 10:43 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

lou9 (anonymous) says...

SmooveB - you hit the nail on the head. This person may be making minimum wage, and that's her fault, but she and her husband pay no taxes. As a matter of fact, they get a hell of a lot more from the government in refunds, EITC, food stamps, etc., than they pay to the government. Social programs were originally designed to be a hand up, not a hand out. But society has coddled people for so long, telling them that it's okay if you don't want to finish school, it's okay if you don't want to work, it's okay if you want to have child after child even if you can't afford to support yourself, the government will provide for you. Well, I for one am sick and tired of my tax dollars going to people who think they are owed something.
By the way, mine and my wife's "living wage" has not increased in about 6 years. How about the rest of you? What do you think your boss would say if you came to him/her and said you should get a rasie because the cost of food, gas, etc. has gone up?

July 24, 2008 at 10:46 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Lovely_One (anonymous) says...

I just read that archdude and I laughed once I saw it.

July 24, 2008 at 10:48 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

nativecharlestongirl (anonymous) says...

Minimum wage? Even if they raise minimum wage it is hard to make ends meet. I don't think it is the governments responsibility to make up for the hardship. Go back to school, better yourself in some way, find something you are good at doing or making, be resourceful. I just recently got married but before that, I raised my daughter on my OWN (no child support, no welfare or gov. assistance) and struggled to make payments on my car and her private school. But guess what it is possible and can be done without begging for handouts. Quit being lazy and get out there to make it work for your family. Cut back on everything possible. No cigarettes, fast food, blowing money. Save five dollars here and ten dollars there and you would be surprised how fast it adds up...

July 24, 2008 at 11:04 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

orvinc (anonymous) says...

Mrs. Dewar who employees you? The article says Kangaroo but you are asking the "Imperial" government to give you a raise. So who is it? Last time I checked my employer writes my pay check not the government and I do not believe Kangaroo is a nationalized or socialized business. Also, stop having kids. Three was obviously more than enough, take an aspirin and hold it between your knees and don't worry about paying for birth control. You are probably spending more on day care hour for hour than you are probably making so either stay home or vie for management of the store.

Mr. Ladson you are correct "the poor do not make anything" because they don't contribute to society. You are wrong about hard working; they are the laziest people in this country.

Finally, thank you Mr. Hefner for your spot on analysis, bravo.

July 24, 2008 at 11:17 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

iceman1978 (anonymous) says...

The minimum wage was only meant to be a starting point and not a permanent solution. Maybe some of you remember this but a while back they ran a story about a woman who moved here from Virginia. She left a good paying job and took one here making just above minimum wage and then had three more kids by three different men after moving here. I'm sure that she would have thought the govt should give her a raise but the fact remains is that she was in that situation because of her own doing.

Maybe this woman's story is different. Maybe at one time they were better off before the gas prices went so high. $8 per hour is above the min wage and it's not the responsibility of the state to raise her income. Suppose that they raised it to $12 per hour. What do people think would happen to consumer prices?

If you really want to address poverty you have to look at it from the standpoint of the consumer price index relative to wage levels. You have to create incentives for business expansion, increased production, and encourage the flow of capital that is currently offshore back into the US economy.

July 24, 2008 at 11:50 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

guidedbystewart (anonymous) says...

Evilgenius
where i get my shoes...
http://www.simpleshoes.com/index.aspx
FYI, unions are rarely tied to anything in SC, compared to other States, we have less union worker than any.

July 24, 2008 at 12:09 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

chucktonian (anonymous) says...

the minimum wage itself is a job-killer.

people who make the minimum wage:

high school kids
housewives
retirees

Nobody lives on the minimum wage. If you do, you're a loser.

July 24, 2008 at 12:11 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Larz13 (anonymous) says...

I asked for a $5 per hour increase from my customer last month and they offered in increase of $3 per hour. I suppose that I am somewhat satisfied that it will cover my travel expenses but nothing more.

July 24, 2008 at 12:13 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

suec (anonymous) says...

minimum wage is meant to be a starting point. If you are still makeing minimum wage after more than a year on the job then
a) you are not worth more
or
b)find need to find an employer who rewards for a job well done

Anyone who learns their job, shows up when they should, and has a decent attitude should advance no matter where thay are working.
I bet you could be a fast food manager in 6 months if you did all 3 of those.

July 24, 2008 at 12:43 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

citizenbo (anonymous) says...

I agree that the minimum wage increase is not enough. If it were doubled, it might result in less members of a family having to work. With some parents at home, a lot of social ills might be lessened. A stable family life is necessary to the well being of a society. There is more to life than the bottom line. Prosperity results when the workers are satisfied. Wages are used too often as a way to cut operation costs. I wonder how many voters out there are having to work more than one job, just to make ends meet.

July 24, 2008 at 12:43 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

UrGatorbait (anonymous) says...

Wow, no not wow, just a sad state of affairs when the apparent minority utters..."The government should pay me more" For what? Because you are alive and pump out babies like a soda machine? We who work and earn should keep you? Grow up and to quote the Chucktonian..."You're a loser" I add to that move up in life or deal with it. Unfortunately the way they deal with it is to play the victim and manipulate sympathy out of the ignorant masses.

Minimum wage...I'll repeat it again, is not a living wage. I'm sure Curly fries Pelosi, Scary Reid and heaven forbid The BarrackStar will attempt to make it come true in November.

Stewart, you can drop the slavery drama. No one is a slave. If you want to see real slavery/poverty/persecution, try visiting Africa or the Mid east. It's ugly and has absolutely no bearing on a minimum wage does the slavery inflammatory rhetoric. It only blurs the conversation and steers it away from any real discussion like any victim/entitlement pro would do.

July 24, 2008 at 12:53 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

iceman1978 (anonymous) says...

This woman is making $8 per hour which is more than the min wage. I made $8 per hour at my first job when I was still in college. When I found that financially I was struggling I decided to do work on the side detailing cars. Just through networking with family and friends I was able to bring in an extra $300 per month detailing and cleaning cars for people. It was tough work, and I could have looked for another job, but I needed something where I could stay close to the campus. I didn't ask the govt to help me, and I certainly didn't expect it. We live in a nation that has K-12 education, and if you play your cards right you can get assistance to basically pay the first two years of college.

You do what you have to do when things aren't going well. Maybe these two need to start up a home-based business part-time to bring in extra cash flow.

July 24, 2008 at 1:13 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

icunvme (anonymous) says...

chucktonian,
i have to disagree with when u said people who make the minimum wage:are high school kids, housewives,retirees.
I hold a bachelors and a masters working on another masters and I make min wage! I really believe this city is intimidated by my education make me "overqualified" for a job! I can't find another one to save my soul.

Also you said If you do, you're a loser. I am so not a loser but a well educated, single mother trying to make ends meat.

South Carolina Sucks!!!!

July 24, 2008 at 1:19 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

VMI90 (anonymous) says...

People who say "go back to school and get an education, and thus get a better job" are completely missing a very important point here. Eventually, there has to be SOMEONE to do these types of jobs. Not everyone can go back to school and get better jobs, or there wouldn't be anyone to do these jobs. Ok, by your logic, we will have a society of salaried, college-educated workers, with no blue collar workers. Hmm..kind of utopian sounding, isn't it? So for the jerks who keep calling minimum wage earners "losers", maybe you need a reality check. Look in the mirror before you call someone else a loser.

July 24, 2008 at 1:27 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

SCHoser (anonymous) says...

icunvme-you are kidding, right? Why in sam hills' name are you here then? I think I will have to call b.s. on this one...btw-why would anyone envy a college grad with a masters who makes min wage?

July 24, 2008 at 1:32 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

iceman1978 (anonymous) says...

icunvme, Single parent, two college degrees, still in college for another and making min wage? I have a hard time believing your story but I'll go ahead and give you the benefit of the doubt. I just have two questions:

1) How do you pay bills? At min wage you're lucky to be able to pay the rent and utilities much less college tuition.

2) If you have a Master's degree and have been unable to find a job that pays you what you're worth then you need to move to another city. Why do you stay here?

July 24, 2008 at 1:43 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

guidedbystewart (anonymous) says...

Gator,
I am well aware of the poverty in Africa (which is a whole other problem), Haiti, as I am aware of the poverty off Allendale and Hampton Counties (which is, lets face it, much like a third world country). I am also very aware that the minimum wage is not a living wage, which to me is a problem (but not necessarily the government problem to fix). It had been 11 years before the minimum wage had changed in this country and it was long over due.
My comments were mainly aimed at the "let's do away with minimum wage"
Libertarian crowd. If you make less than minimum wage, I do not think that it is much of an embellishment to state it as I see it, slave wages (and yes this is my opinion).

That being said, I feel most of the people in this situation are there because of own irresponsibility and bad decisions. But there are others that are not. There are also people that worked hard all of there life to raise a family, got laid off at their textile job they had worked all there life, and reduced to becoming a greeter at Wal-Mart for a job that barely pays minimum wage (with no benefits). No folks this not a work of fiction, but the reality of many people from many counties across this state. They are too old to start again with education and usually too old to find anything else. Are these people losers? HELL NO. Not everyone that is getting paid low wage jobs are these stereotyped "baby factory" minorities that many of you have pictured in your head. I had to struggle myself at times, I lost my parents at a young age, worked my way through college and have a decent job to show for it. So I truly value hard work. But if people work 40 hours a week (which many buisnesses will not allow in fear of having to pay benefits if they do), they should at least have food on their plate and a house over there head period.

July 24, 2008 at 1:56 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

suec (anonymous) says...

icunvme- just your name gives a hint as to why you have a hard time getting a job. Attitude counts for a lot.

What did you major in?

July 24, 2008 at 1:56 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

iceman1978 (anonymous) says...

stewart, Excellent post.

July 24, 2008 at 2:06 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

VMI90 (anonymous) says...

It's really funny to me that these people that throw out the term "losers" to these minimum wage earners are probably also right wing, bible thumpers who claim they are "compassionate conservatives", and claim to be holier than thou. I am willing to bet it is the same crowd. Hypocrisy at it's finest.

July 24, 2008 at 2:10 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

nativecharlestongirl (anonymous) says...

icunvme- please if you are not satisfied with SC by all means PLEASE leave! I always have appreciation for those who bitch and make their circumstances better, not JUST bitch about it. If you need help packing up the kids and moving on out just say the word, I am sure there are plenty of people who will help with that effort!!!!

As far as making minimum wage... I say do the best you can and make advances in life don't just sit there completely stuck in a victim state, get up and work it out.

You can always make things better but think they could be a HELL of a lot WORSE.

My dad a very well educated and experienced man always says "ASS, CASH or GAS, NOBODY rides for FREE".

July 24, 2008 at 2:13 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

flinsc (anonymous) says...

Don't forget about unions. A lot of those contract are set up on 3,4,5,6 or more times minimum wage. So if it went up 70 cents, that means that worker will make possible $4.20 more an hour. The port prices go up, price of cars, cost of beer, everything will be rising. It is all political. Rase the salary of people in the short term, union workers, minimum wage workers, so that people can be elected. But when others start losing jobs and can't afford things, that will cause the fall.

July 24, 2008 at 2:30 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

SCHoser (anonymous) says...

You are not a loser if you have a min wage job. But if you are trying to support a family and have some of the luxuries of life on min wage, well then you are. Rewards take effort, not government assistance.

July 24, 2008 at 2:46 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

SmooveB (anonymous) says...

From what school did icunvme get her "masters"? The total lack of punctuation, grammar, and sentence structure may be indicative of why she can't make ends *meat*.

I have several Master's degrees, yet I don't get paid what I am worth in my state either. Therefore, I travel the continent, and even ocassionally internationally, to make ends more than meet. I do have sympathy and compassion for single parents though.

July 24, 2008 at 3:40 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

hartley8184 (anonymous) says...

icunvme writes:
"Also you said If you do, you're a loser. I am so not a loser but a well educated, single mother trying to make ends meat."

This is only one glaring example of the spelling, grammar, construction and punctuation errors in your overall post. If you are truly a double Master's Degree holder, you wasted your money. You probably can't get another job because your resume is full of errors. My son in 8th grade speaks and writes with greater proficiency. So, I also doubt your credibility. The education system in this country is a complete sham. And the politicians in this country with their evil and sinister policies have reduced the general population to the modern equivalent of medieval serfs. Don't give up your guns.

July 24, 2008 at 3:56 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

STREETLAW (anonymous) says...

CEO's make hundreds of millions. Might we pay people who hold up the pyramid a living wage, not just a minimum one?

Think if it as a grass roots economic stimulus.

When people can make almost as much or more than minimum wage on welfare than they can by working, they will do it.

July 24, 2008 at 4:43 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

FiscalConservative (anonymous) says...

StreetLaw....you need some learning as do a lot of you.

EXAMPLE____That EVERYONE can follow....hopefully.

You own a business that employs minimum wage people to make your "widget". If you don't know what a widget is, there is your problem, you haven't taken ANY level of ECON. These widgets are made from materials that cost $10. I takes one worker 1 hour to make 1 widget. He was paid old minimum wage yesterday---$5.85. This means the product costs $15.85 to make. You sell it for $50. Profit=$34.15.

It is now today and the worker's wage is now $6.55. Everything else is the same. It now costs $16.55 to make the "widget" Profits are now down $0.55. Owner is not happy. In turn, shareholder's are not happy.

What does he do?

ANSWER: He raises the price of the widget to offset his increased production costs. This may not seem like much because this is a simple illustration but it is still valid.

WAIT!!!!! THERE"S MORE!!!!

What if this widget went into making something else? Then that objects price would go up because materials go up. If the person who makes the products that contain widgets employs minimum wage workers, two factors that go into the production of a product increased due to an increase in the minimum wage. All of the increase in the widget won't get transferred into the other product but some will.

Let's say the widget worker goes to buy the product that contains the widgets that he makes. It now costs more than he just got from his "raise." He is worse off than before.

---Worse than that---We all didn't get and extra $0.55 today so we are even worse off than him. Our wages are even closer. Another way how the Gov't redistributes wealth in America.

July 24, 2008 at 5:30 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

FiscalConservative (anonymous) says...

icunvme said----" i have to disagree with when u said people who make the minimum wage:are high school kids, housewives,retirees.
I hold a bachelors and a masters working on another masters and I make min wage! I really believe this city is intimidated by my education make me "overqualified" for a job! I can't find another one to save my soul."

I would love to know where you got your degrees and what they are in. Please provide the institution that accredits them, also. Unless you have something else wrong with you, you can find a job, a good job. Post your GRE scores or GMAT scores also.

July 24, 2008 at 5:41 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

FiscalConservative (anonymous) says...

Posted by VMI90 on July 24, 2008 at 1:27 p.m. (Suggest removal)

People who say "go back to school and get an education, and thus get a better job" are completely missing a very important point here. Eventually, there has to be SOMEONE to do these types of jobs. Not everyone can go back to school and get better jobs, or there wouldn't be anyone to do these jobs. Ok, by your logic, we will have a society of salaried, college-educated workers, with no blue collar workers. Hmm..kind of utopian sounding, isn't it? So for the jerks who keep calling minimum wage earners "losers", maybe you need a reality check. Look in the mirror before you call someone else a loser.

You are right, not everyone can go back to school. SOME PEOPLE ARE NOT SMART ENOUGH OR WORK HARD ENOUGH FOR IT. Does that mean they should be rewarded for this: NO!!! Life isn't fair. I am not tall enough or have the skills to play basketball in the NBA. Should I then be paid their wage? NO!!!! At least with education, you can move up if you work hard enough. I know a lot of lazy, smart people that make a lot less than hardworking dumb.

July 24, 2008 at 5:51 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

iceman1978 (anonymous) says...

Fiscal, I double-majored in business and econ so I understand where you're coming from on this. Most manufacturing jobs are likely paying well above the minimum wage but your basic point is valid. It is in the service industry where you have a higher percentage who make minimum wage. The service industry is particularly vulnerable right now with the rise in energy costs so it's not likely that they will raise prices even further. What I believe will be more likely is that they will downsize their labor force to offset the increase in labor.

July 24, 2008 at 5:55 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

FiscalConservative (anonymous) says...

guidedbystewart----The term is "all intents and purposes."

Sorry but that and "mute point" both bother the hell out of me. Stick with easier phrases for your own sake. That shows you learned it on TV.

July 24, 2008 at 5:57 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

FiscalConservative (anonymous) says...

Iceman: I believe you are right about that. I was just using the simplest example I could think of. Minimum wage jobs are no-skill meaning you can be replaced very easy. Having skill/education makes that harder and leads to higher wages.

July 24, 2008 at 7:16 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

FiscalConservative (anonymous) says...

Thank you stand828. I thought about what the price of the final product should be. I wanted it to be high to get a comment like yours but not too ridiculous to make my point, "pointless" so to speak. I will dissect your response.

"No one forces them to raise that price, because nobody ever guaranteed that $34.15 profit. They could accept the fact that a $33.45 profit, while, granted, not as desirable as a $34.15 profit, is still damn good."

---Well you are not educated at all, are you? That 34.10 profit is a gross profit. It doesn't include taxes, overhead, and all the other expenses that go along with business ownership. If you had even taken a remedial accounting class and passed you would know that with the info I provided you. That price is determined through various factors. Believe me, 13% to the worker from the sales price is great.

To be continued.....

July 24, 2008 at 10:41 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

FiscalConservative (anonymous) says...

Continued......

"So now I'm supposed to feel sorry for the owner and the shareholders? Boo f**king Hoo!"

---Most stock ownership is through mutual funds, you look it up and see what that means . 401(k) plans are comprised of these mutual funds because single stock ownership is VERY risky. When a company underperforms, for a variety of reasons, the stock loses value. If this happens to a lot of companies contained in the mutual fund, it drops in value. That means you have less money to retire on and when it runs out you have to go back to work at, most likely if you are old, a low paying job.

"The problem here is greed. The owner and the shareholders now feel a sense of entitlement to the higher profit, and will do whatever it takes to see that they continue to get it. Whether it means keeping their workers at a stagnant rate of pay for a lengthy period of time, or raising the market price, they want their money. And that is wrong, and that is why we need a minimum wage."

---You obviously did not read the part about how the worker is worse off. As soon as you saw profit you were blind to everything else. You also injected your entire response with bias toward your point. I understand that. I simply used an example of economics. I pointed out what happens, you said what you hope in your heart happens. I can hope that 2+2=5 for the rest of my life, doesn't mean that they should pass laws making it so. I find it amusing that you use the word "entitlement" in your last paragraph and then go on about why the gov't should mandate a "pay raise."

---Finally, I even kept this simple. I could have discussed many more advanced Economic topics relating to this, but this one seems advanced enough. It's OK. Economics is a hard subject. The CofC bookstore has nice intro books that can help.

----One more thing, say this is a private company owned by one man. He took all the risk starting the business and will be on the hook if it fails. Why should he have to give up profit due to the gov't saying his wage should be this? A lot of small businesses are started with all the money a person has and sometimes all they can borrow on top of that. Most fail. The few lucky ones who make it and become rich are the epitome of the American Dream, rags-to-riches. Why punish that? Oh yea, we do, by taxing the hell out of them to give to people who don't have the will, smarts, drive, or BALLS to do it themselves.

July 24, 2008 at 10:42 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

iceman1978 (anonymous) says...

What I found most disturbing about this article was when the woman said that she thought the government should "give her a raise." Where does she think the money comes from? This is absolute proof of the degeneration of our education system in that people have no understanding of the concept of money. If her understanding of economics and finance is as such that she thinks the govt should just give people raises then that's the first reason she isn't making more money on her own.

The United States is unique among nations in that Americans were the first people to coin the term "to make money". The significance in this is that we came to the realization that wealth is something that must be created. The root of the profit motive is money, and money, being a tool of exchange for goods and services, has its roots in production. The roots of production are men and women who use the power of their minds to develop products, improve on existing technology, create a production apparatus and start businesses. Every nation in human history that has amounted to anything has understood this. When it comes down to it, the intellect is the root of all the wealth that has ever existed on earth. Our government prints money through the Federal Reserve, but without production to back it up it would be useless. The government could give her a raise, but it would come at the expense of someone else in the form of higher taxes and increased production costs. It's the same concept with these people who look at lawsuits as a way to get rich quick. They can sue a hospital or insurance company, but where do they think that money comes from? (shaking head as I mutter 'idiot' under my breath)

Anyone who has their money tied up in a 401(k), stocks, bonds, etc. has an interest in seeing corporations be as productive as possible. Greed isn't what hurt this country, it's what built this country. The United States was not built on the foundations of altruism, a belief that has led many other nations to destitution. America was built by the entrepreneurs who started businesses, created wealth and expanded to become larger; creating more and better paying jobs each step of the way. Henry Ford comes to mind here, as does Bill Gates. Bill Gates has done more to improve the living standard of the average American than most of our politicians have.

July 25, 2008 at 12:23 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

FiscalConservative (anonymous) says...

Stand828-- I didn't mean that you are uneducated in general just in this aspect. If this was a story about how someone broke the law and how they were punished, I would be the uneducated one. You would say one thing that you know from your law experience (education, sentencing guidelines, statutes, etc.) Would that mean you were biased? No, unless you said this is how it should be instead of how it is. In this regard, I don't think that my original example was biased. It is one of the basic elements of economics.I used my example to show one of the possible side-effects of the increase. Iceman gave the most likely example, fire x amount of workers.

There is a way to go about lowering the CEO's pay without the gov't also. Buy stock in the company. It doesn't have to be a lot. Then, organize other shareholders and go to the meetings to voice your disgust. If enough shareholders feel the same way and want unite with you it will make a difference. You would need a majority or at least a good chunk to be taken seriously. If it is only you why should they change? Because one person thinks something is wrong? If that is how everything worked we would never get anywhere because not everybody can agree on anything.

As far as the 35% profit goes you mention, that was probably specific to your business. Businesses that have to invest in huge amounts machines, buildings, technology development, etc. operate at huge losses for extended amounts of time. When (IF) they become profitable, they can use these losses to offset taxes. A reward for sticking it out. Great idea IMHO.

"We should want the least among us in our community to be able to pay for the basic necessities in life."

If prices go up due to minimum wage, like my example, can they pay for these? No. If some get fired, like in iceman's example, are they better off? No. We could raise the minimum wage to $100,000, how much would basic things cost? A lot more. Higher wage earners would take longer to have their wages catch up because they are based on the market price for their wages and the market was affected artificially.

BTW--Jesus refers to charity which is voluntary not forced. If you are forced to believe in God, Do you still go to heaven?

July 25, 2008 at 10:39 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

hartley8184 (anonymous) says...

The minimum wage will NEVER be high enough to appease and placate the egalitarian dreamers. On the other hand, capitalism is not a good mix with hyper-individualist secularism. America is over with. Get used to it.

July 25, 2008 at 5:29 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

FiscalConservative (anonymous) says...

I HATE to say it Hartley but you MAY (caps because i hope you are not) be right. I sure as hell am learning the new international accounting rules to position myself for that change. I hope to god you have to eat your words but would not bet on it. Socialism is terrible and will be the ruin of this planet.............

........Unless you are in charge, of course. Then it is great. People obey you and you are allowed to do as you wish. EVERY dictatorship (w/ or w/o genocide) is great for those in charge but the people who they used to get there by promising the world end up suffering. I am certain Hitler was having the best time of his life, but what about the Jewish citizens?

July 25, 2008 at 6:32 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

majorjohnson (anonymous) says...

Hope people making minimum wage like not working, because I suspect some will be getting fired.

July 25, 2008 at 7:41 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )