Posted by Cid95 on July 22, 2008 at 1:13 a.m. (Suggest removal)

What is the definition of a SC Native American? I mean - is it anyone who says they are or believes they are? Is there any genealogical proof needed?

Posted by dixiegrl98 on July 22, 2008 at 1:30 a.m. (Suggest removal)

This doesn't sound like a bad idea,IF they organize it right.My husbands great grandmother was cherokee,wonder if he would qualify?....real good question cid95.

Posted by moonpie on July 22, 2008 at 6:30 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Cid you have to legally have a percentage of indian blood in your lineage. I don't know what the exact % is but it's minimal like 1/8th. I think I qualify, I'm trying to do the math right now.
Dixie your husband will defintely qualify. Based on his gm being Cherokee that makes him 1/4 indian.
Really my family looked into it but I don't remember the qualifications but hopefully someone more versed on the subject will post us all an answer.

Posted by wpc3iop on July 22, 2008 at 7 a.m. (Suggest removal)

When are we going to have an Irish American survey? We need to gather information on the needs and concerns of the micks...let's hold the meeting at Dunleavy's on Sullivan's Island!

Posted by Early on July 22, 2008 at 8:11 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I believe the Cherokee nation minimal is 1/4 percent to receive benefits. I do not know about our local Indians.
The problem I had is no birth certificates back then, you have to have someone with knowledge of your family or some tribes actually kept journals.
This is great, great news. finally, a minority that deserves to be recognized more and more. No other race in America has endured the hardships of the American Indian.

Posted by Jane on July 22, 2008 at 8:23 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Oh wonderful. We are continuing down the path of putting every person into a special group in order to get special treatment. I am part indian and would qualify and there is no way I would come forward for this. We need to do away with ALL special interests. Period. We are destroying our naiton with this "special interest group gotta get me something from the government mentality". We need to view ourselves as Americans. Period.

Posted by grannyofsix on July 22, 2008 at 8:34 a.m. (Suggest removal)

My husband is a member of a tribe his grandfather was the chief of the same tribe till he died. My Late husband was only 1/4 Native American. My husband is from Va. where the tribe is. So I guess he doesn’t qualify here. Oh well that’s the breaks LOL.

Posted by grannyofsix on July 22, 2008 at 8:38 a.m. (Suggest removal)

If anyone should receive any kind of benefits it should be the NATIVE AMERICAN. After all this was their land wasn’t it? Or were they shipped here to by unknown forces

Posted by Early on July 22, 2008 at 8:38 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Jane, special interest???
Maybe heritage?????
Angry, party of one, your table is ready!!!

Posted by STREETLAW on July 22, 2008 at 8:52 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Come on James Island Indians. Get together and put a casino and thoroughbred race track in the town of James Island somewhere off Grimbal road and see how many Charleston blue bloods come through the gates.

Let's make James Island the Atlantic City of the South.

Posted by suec on July 22, 2008 at 8:52 a.m. (Suggest removal)

"For so long we've had to be hidden and hide ourselves as another population,"

What?
For those of you who are or have a relative with indian blood, have you been discriminated against? I doubt it. My husband is 1/4 Cherokee and I can say that most people look at it as a positive thing.

This hand out is an insult to Indians. What happeend to pride?

Posted by Jane on July 22, 2008 at 8:58 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Excuse me Early, but I am part Native American. My point is it is time to stop this special interest groups. We are all Americans and this must stop. We are becoming more and more divided. Giving our tax dollars to special interest groups is so unconstitutional. We continue to think more and more that we are all entitled to special treatment from the government and "desrve" someone elses money. I would hardly call that angry. I would call that loving America and wanting us all to view ourselves as Americans. Just because I have Indian heritage does not entitle me to your money.
It does amaze me how people take such offense when you say people should take responsibility for their own lives and shouldn't expect to be given other peoples' money.

Posted by ln1959 on July 22, 2008 at 9:13 a.m. (Suggest removal)

STEETLAW:
Why Grimball Rd. We have enough traffic on that road as it is. They are already going to build a resort at the Grimball Rd extension. ha ha ha

Anyway, there are so many people claiming to have Indian in them. Hell I have family members that claim one of our great great great grandmother was Cherokee. Thats some thing I can not prove, but my cousin has a picture of her.

Posted by Early on July 22, 2008 at 9:25 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Jane, please show me where tax dollars are mentioned in this article!!! I assure you, I have far more Indian heritage than you and I do not need any handouts. I think the article indicate that "grants" may be used in the future, you do know what a grant is don't you?
And trust me on this one, I am not a "special interest" type of person. I see billions in waste on special interest!
I say all this respectfully, not in anger!
Early

Posted by LH1230 on July 22, 2008 at 9:43 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Jane, I totally agree with you. Until we start viewing ourselves as a united nation of Americans, this could go on forever.

And wpc3iop- I was going to say the same thing myself!:)

Posted by 512c on July 22, 2008 at 9:50 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I would like to see the natives indigenous to this area take a stand for what's left of the environment, and the way of life that supported a balance with it. I would also like to see tribes, even the Irish travelers be represented by a more imaginative government interaction. I grew up a southern kid with church goin parents from 3rd generation irish and polish families, and think it would be a shame to see more and more of the cultures Europeans took for granted squashed by our development patterns (based on a fantasy of each of us having our own lil' villa in the country). This past century saw a terrible amount of change towards industrialization and super farms. We have only a little time to stop this mindless development, and the Travelers, and the Natives here have something to teach us. I think we should have better defined urban zones, thus allowing a true forest canopy and a true biome. Right now, we have maybe a small shadow of the natural green world that ya'll respected. Stand up and be proud, question our European programs.

Posted by ysillyme on July 22, 2008 at 9:50 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Ther's a tax increase proposal on another thread about cig's. The blacks get "grants", the poor get subsidized meals, housing, welfare, Now we need to hunt down Indians for potential grants. Weren't they hunted down once? Jane is on point; stop with all the fragmenting of America. Just think...why are all the people sent to diversity training white? Is O'Bama Afro-American or 1/2 white and 1/2 black? How about just plain Americans? Almost forgot Spainish-American programs.

Posted by suec on July 22, 2008 at 9:51 a.m. (Suggest removal)

"If the survey is a success and the state starts to address the needs, you're gong to get citizens who are educated, who are giving back to the community and giving back to the state," Leach said. "Any time you improve the environment of the Native American community, you're going to improve the status of the state as well."

Early, who do you think is paying Leach, paying for the survey and this commission? Read the article again. Anywhere you see the word "state" you may as well read "tax dollars".

Posted by Jane on July 22, 2008 at 9:53 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Early, reread the last sentence....

"It will also help in DRAWING RESOURCES such as grants (notice, it does not say ONLY grants...it says such as, as in one source...among many)to the area and could serve to INSPIRE LEGISLATION AND SERVICES.

Come on...what do you think legislation and services means?? Legislation=new law raising taxes on something

services=giving your money to the new special interest group.

The journalist has just written it in a politically correct way so it goes down nice and easy.
Abolish all special interest groups today!! You wanna bet they have a lot of lobbiests in DC. No special interest groups and you don't have to worry about them lobbying for more money and threatening our legislatures with withholding campaign contributions. We are all Americans and NO ONE is more special than the next. You truly believe this is what our Founding Fathers intended. Remember the "All created equal" part? (I know, in the beginning not everyone was treated equal, but we only perpetuate things with this special interest nonsense).

Posted by 512c on July 22, 2008 at 10:04 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I say let the natives have there land back. and shut up about taxes, we stole it, shame on us, so quit mencing the argument with taxes and "diversity is going away because I had to take a diversity training course (hmm, maybe we needed some mind expansion?)"

Posted by Jane on July 22, 2008 at 10:04 a.m. (Suggest removal)

512c we Indians were not perfect stewards of the environment. We used to run whole herds of buffalo off of cliffs, when doing our hunts. We used to start fires and burn things out of control. We weren't perfect. Heck, we just didn't invent things and improve our lives like the Europeans did. What was so great about living in tepees or out in the open? MISERABLE!! Of course, this out of control growth is because we have out of control immigration both legal and illegal. Sorry, but it doesn't matter how much we conserve if we continue to allow this flood of people from other countries into our nation. Heck, did you know we Indians enslaved other Indians? Do you know why the Spanairds were able to invade and take over and then name "Mexico" Mexico? The Aztecs would kidnap Indians from other tribes and sacrifice them alive to their Gods. The Indian tribes decided they would rather side with the white man than to continue to be sacrificed by another Indian tribe.
Let's all move on from the past (never forget it, but let's move on). Let's stop this spllintering into our little groups. We have been such a success in the past because we were the "great melting pot". Not a patchwork of special interests how can I get myself someone elses loot.

Posted by Jane on July 22, 2008 at 10:09 a.m. (Suggest removal)

P.S. If we give "the Indians their land back" where do you suggest we go? Sorry, I don't want "my land back". No one owes me anything. It did not happen to me or any one alive today. Besides, most Indians today have more white blood in them than Indian. This is ridiculous. Move on. Enjoy being an American with your mixed ancestories and thank God you live in the United States of America.
P.S.S. If we Indians "get our land back" do we have to give up all the things the white man invented...a lot of the advances in medicine, air conditioning, flying, driving cars, etc. Sorry, I don't want to give that up.

Posted by suec on July 22, 2008 at 10:26 a.m. (Suggest removal)

This is right up there with the AA comunity wanting reparations for slavery.

My ancestors did not steal land from Indians or own slaves. Some people think the "white" man owes them something. Do they not see that they are degrading themselves by thinking that way. A better attitude would be "I will succeed, despite...."

Posted by 512c on July 22, 2008 at 10:34 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Jane, I agree with some things you say.
I did idealize the tribes. They were not perfect, no tribe ever is. But, let's talk history. Our European culture has
examples of cultures that were in balance with nature, but were cruel and heartless. And some that were just plain pleasant and well balanced.
Take Sparta for example, often referred to adoringly by western political types. It survived more than 400 years, but on the backs of a slave culture that was kept like cattle.
Now, take the Kogi, they have survived longer, and in balance with nature. http://www.labyrinthina.com/kogi.htm
There are some things that you or I could not stomach, if we lived like them. Fine, but let's recognize the cleverness of not needing cars to drive to work, find food, and worship.
I'm an architect in training, and have learned that our western mind set needs some serious balancing, not all our inventions were that clever, when you see the anxiety and sadness created by these.

Posted by 512c on July 22, 2008 at 10:38 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I know, we can only move forward.
Let me tell you: there are so many things that we do now, that need to not be carried on any longer, or the energy spent/energy needed/energy attainable ratios are WAY off.
Property and land owning is a mental idea, that say, stewardship on one end of the spectrum, but the other end says "profit" and as you can tell, when speculation on a value price for land, or use of land is the prime driver, you get balloon effects, that push people to buy more and turn it over just to maintain their status, let alone profit.

Posted by Early on July 22, 2008 at 10:58 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Jane, I envision the grants would be provided by other Indian nations which in some cases are extremely wealthy and pay no taxes. I don't see the connection of our tax dollars.

Posted by ysillyme on July 22, 2008 at 11:34 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I know one thing the Indians are pissed at: not doing a better job of controlling immigration!

Posted by Jane on July 22, 2008 at 11:44 a.m. (Suggest removal)

That's right ysillyme:-).

Early, I'm sorry you don't see the connection to our tax dollars. I do. That is what "special interests" are all about. Getting tax dollars. What other Indian nations would provide these grants and why does our government have to get involved?

512c Indians worshipped too. That was why the Aztecs made live sacrifices. Indians were very superstitious. As for slavery? We weren't the only ones to have slaves. We were the only ones to have a war to end it however.

Northern Africa enslaved more white Europeans than all of the 13 colonies had black slaves. Cuba had more slaves than all of the 13 colonies. When Europe outlawed slavery, it was the black leaders in Africa in on the slave trade that went to Europe to protest it.

Anyway, Indians were supposedly in harmony with nature because we did not come up with advances that made life more comfortable. That is my opinion. Again, I don't see the need for another special interest group. Go to school, do well, get a job, save some of your money, and enjoy life. Don't worry about what group you think you should be in. You're an American! Good enough for me.

Posted by Cid95 on July 22, 2008 at 12:12 p.m. (Suggest removal)

For the sake of heritage and historical knowledge, doing surveys and studies with my tax dollars (yes Early, despite what you "envision" that's how this stuff really works) is acceptable to me on a reasonable basis. Just like with early settlements, antebellum, Civil War and other eras.

But that's it. Being Indian isn't a lottery and they don't deserve anything special. Should we give British-Americans back "their" land which we unfairly stole during the American Revolution? Many of them left back to Great Britain, to Canada, or to the Caribbean and would maybe like "their land" returned to them in some sort of genealogical lottery if they can prove their bloodline.

The right of conquest is an undeniable historical fact. Is anyone proposing solving the Israel - Palestine thing now by giving the area back to the conquered Phoenicians? Why not, it was theirs first. How about the poor Celts, conquered by the Normans in 1066?

History moves on, people need to also.

Posted by ladyg on July 22, 2008 at 12:45 p.m. (Suggest removal)

My maternal grandmother was full Cherokee and my maternal grandfather's last name was "Falls," so he most likely was of Indian heritage as well. I never knew either of them. My paternal grandmother was 1/2 Cherokee, and my paternal grandfather's family was from England. I was raised and live no differently than probably millions of other Americans who have Native American blood in their lineage. I believe all of us who legitimately can claim Native American heritage should stand up and be counted, not for the purpose of any benefit to us, but to display the strength, fortitude, and undying spirit of those who came before us, and to honor them by showing what successes we have become despite the injustice they suffered. I did not inherit the culture and traditions specifically, and no emphasis has ever been placed on my Indian heritage, but I know that part of what is good about me and who I am as a person, is directly tied to those "Native Americans" from whom I descend.

I feel the same way about my Confederate heritage, and my Christian heritage. Something many people don't understand as being a good thing. We are more than the sum of our parts, but the "parts" do work into the overall equation.

Posted by grannyofsix on July 22, 2008 at 1 p.m. (Suggest removal)

So Gadsden what you are saying here is, the "American Indians" were brought here not here by nature, I would say god But, I don’t wan to offend non believers. Not being a smart a** I really would like to know your opinion

Posted by Jane on July 22, 2008 at 1:19 p.m. (Suggest removal)

grannyofsix I think what Gadsden is saying is that Indians weren't originally from here either. They just got here first. They came across the Bering Strait in Alaska during the last Ice Age and eventually worked their way down through what is now the America's. That is what I remember from school.

Posted by grannyofsix on July 22, 2008 at 1:31 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Ok. Thank you Jane. Either way, they were here first LOL

Posted by Lovely_One on July 22, 2008 at 1:40 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Jane, that is what I learned also. And I do not know why we call them Native Americans when this land was not called America when they first inherited it. Can someone enlighten me?

Posted by Jane on July 22, 2008 at 1:50 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Yes, granny they were here first, but I sure prefer my way of life that the ancestors on my European side came up with as opposed to my "native side". :-)

Posted by dixiegrl98 on July 22, 2008 at 5:29 p.m. (Suggest removal)

The cherokee have managed to buy back and currently own most of their land,run a very succesful casino,and yes...use the phrase native american on everything from shop windows to their museum,so obviously they are comfortable using this phrase.one of my best friends for a while grew up there,she told me about how bad the reservation schools need help,how many people she knows who are diabetic,so if the state of south carolina wants to fund a few grants,why not?blacks and mexicans alike get grants from different organizations,among other things,why not native americans?Lord knows,they haven't complained about the past and I think that deserves a better future.

Posted by rollo on July 22, 2008 at 10:13 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Tribal membership is the factor.

My Mothers' and my Fathers' families walked away from their respective membership generations ago. Since then we have been Americans.

Posted by eyfigueroa on July 23, 2008 at 11:48 a.m. (Suggest removal)

It is a shame how Jane seems very critical and not very proud of her cultural/racial heritage. She speaks only of the negative aspects of the various Indian cultures. However, there were many wondrous aspects of Indian culture and anyone who shares that lineage should be VERY proud of their association with any of the tribes.

I on the other hand display my pride in my ethnic/racial/cultural heritage. I’ve taught my own children the history of their ancestors (warts and all). We cook the food, listen and dance to the music and fly the flags of our racial/ethnic ancestry. Most of all I’ve taught them to respect those who do not share in our ancestry. They’ve also learned through the military service of both of their parents the importance and glory of their American citizenship and all that it entails.

ALL that we are have made us better Americans.

FYI - America is the ONLY nation on this planet that is not based on ethnicity or race. It is based on a set of ideals that have since become cultural in nature:

FREEDOM AND SELF-DETERMINATION.

So when people decry anyone showing pride in their heritage and claim the only pride we should have is in being Americans, they are being very short-sighted.

Now I don’t advocate the use of the politically correct hyphenation such as African-American, Asian-American, etc. If you are a citizen you should refer to yourself simply as an American. However I don’t have a problem with anyone celebrating their particular racial or ethnic heritage so long as it does not denigrate others or expect government preferential treatment via the passage of laws or extraordinary use of tax dollars.

Jane: government dollars have been used to research and celebrate Confederate history, White history, Black history and even the history of the state bird, the Carolina Wren (the South Carolina State Museum is a prime example of that).

IMHO using funds to conduct a survey is innocuous enough, especially if the information gathered is used primarily for information purposes such as determining demographics, etc.

Posted by rollo on July 23, 2008 at 7:06 p.m. (Suggest removal)

eyfigueroa;
..."determining demographics, etc."

To what end? Unless one is engaged in some criminal enterprise, the way they live is none of gov'ts' business. And even if that is the case, the criminals' lineage is entirely irrelevant.

So, to what use could those demographics be put? Another offer to grant one group some special favors or privilege?

NO!! I say it's time the gov't quit dividing us into groups and then pitting one group against another to compete for favors!!!

Now, you are smart enough to see the pattern here, your own post proves that, but what happens next? Someone in gov't says "Oh, look at all these Cherokee descendants, we need to do something for them!" Then another group pops up and complains,"Hey, you all never did that for us!", And pretty soon, gov't is spending taxpayers money on things for groups that those groups never cared enough about to try to raise the money so they could do that for themselves!
Then the gov't comes back to the taxpayer and says,"We, uh, we spent all your money trying to make all these groups happy, so now we have no money to pay the police force and pick up the trash, and fix the roads, so, you're going to have to give us more money."

You Know it's True!!!!!

Posted by Laurel_LaFlamme on July 25, 2008 at 9:30 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"Indians, Indians...come out, come out where ever you are! We want to study you." A little late seeing as the event to take surveys & collect information from the surviving Indians...is tomorrow! I only accidentally found it.

I'm certain that the Minority Commission wants to "help" these American Indians. Perhaps help them get set up and registered for contracting work and monies already earmarked for Minorities in SC. However, the PR campaign is not shining very well right now.

I have seen nothing online except this lone article. I have seen NO public service announcements, heard radio spots...nothing. How are all these people going to be reached?

I am not criticizing their efforts, it just goes to prove my point - when you really want to help someone YOU SCREAM IT FROM THE RAFTERS AND ROOFTOPS - get "grass roots" on it if you have to!

Lame attempts to announce "we're here to help you so come out and participate on short notice" is just not enough to be considered a real effort.

I hope the August 9th event is better publicized than this.

Also, I wonder why it is only 'now' that the push to find the last of our our SC Indian Heritage Peoples is in full effect? Talk about long overdue.

I agree with "Jane" to a great extent. It would be so great to see all Americans helping each other without constraint. When is that going to happen? Get real. Never. The masses don't like to share anything. But the "dream" is real.

In the meantime, remember that affirmative actions are only set in place where a huge disparity already exists. One can argue their opinion til the cows come home, but it's our Government that has set these plans into action. Why shouldn't Minorities take advantage of them?

It does not give anyone an "unfair" advantage. Helping others get a "leg up" only serves to strengthen our society and economy as a whole. It's good for the masses...but then again, the masses don't like to share...anything. And we're back to "that" again. It's a vicious cycle of rhetoric.

BTW - excellent comment thread.

Posted by JLMorningMist on July 26, 2008 at 12:09 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I had been told of this meeting by a friend and have spent this morning reading the comments on the article. I have spent years searching for the TRUTH of what happen to the Native People living on the land of what is now known as the Americans when the European people arrived. It was only in my first college history course that I first learned a few truths as my teacher did not teach from the book. Now I find it fitting that in a place as Charleston there is an effort being made to see how many Native People are in the area. Why Charleston - This is where some Native People, who were slaves, were shipped out to Barbados and other islands while the people of Africa were being brought in to replace them. Many Native people on the east coat of this country who did not die of disease or in battle, for them to live on the only land they knew, were captured and made slaves. Those who were made slaves knew the land and did not know how to plant rice so they were shipped away and the African people were shipped here.

Native people, who lived east of the Mississippi River were allowed to be killed on site if they practiced their beliefs or if men wore there hair long or if a man or woman wore their traditional clothing. This happened in the late 1800's to the early 1900's so they hid who they were and did not dare speak to their children of their heritage. This was not that long ago. In the 1950's through today those who practice their beliefs the Native way are treated by others in the community as outcasts. However now many don't care because their pride has grown. Who they are, their spirit, is strong and the path they are walking is the one that God the Creator intended.

As this pride is being felt for their heritage again there are those who want them to disapear into the mass of Americans who don't care to know about their history in this country. Or maybe they actually don't care about the TRUTHS of what happen in the last 500 years to bring us to where this country is today. And I am speaking of ALL TRUTHS. The history most know about this nation was written by white men, who we are told were Christians, and how they wanted their ancestors to remember them.

Celebrate today the fact that now the Native People can get together to celebrate their heritage with pride. If you feel it is wrong they will get some advantage from the the government don't worry. They will have to fight for anything they get. Those that know the truths of their ancestors know the fight.

I am of Native heritage.

Morning Mist