A very expensive fill-up: $500Station's owner agrees to pay woman's entire repair bill after water was found in gas By Ron Menchaca (Contact)
The Post and Courier
Thursday, July 17, 2008
Brad Nettles Julia Cart was with her 2-year-old granddaughter, Josephine Keefe-Lemaher, when her car had to be towed after it died in West Ashley. The diagnosis was bad gasoline, and the company that owns the station where Cart bought the gas plans to reimburse her for the repairs. Fuel prices are hard enough on the wallet these days without having to fork over hundreds of dollars more to clean contaminated gas out of a car's tank and engine. That's what Charleston fine arts photographer Julia Cart said happened to her recently after she filled her Honda Element at a Kangaroo Express station at Rutledge Avenue and Calhoun Street. A $40 tank of BP-brand gas wound up costing $460 in repairs, she said. An official with the company that owns the station, Sanford, N.C.-based The Pantry Inc., said Tuesday that the station's own testing showed that its tanks were not contaminated. Still, the company intends to reimburse Cart for all her expenses. On July 5, Cart was headed toward Earth Fare in West Ashley with her 2-year-old granddaughter when she pulled into the Kangaroo. She topped off with about 10 gallons in her 12-gallon tank. She said her Honda began sputtering after she pulled out and headed toward the Ashley River Bridge. "It kept dying on me through the stop lights," she said. "I was scared." Her vehicle conked out as she pulled into Earth Fare. She had to have it towed to Hendrick Honda on Savannah Highway. The mechanic's diagnosis was water in the gas. Cart paid $460 in parts and labor to get the bad fuel cleaned out. When she returned to the gas station to find out how to make a claim, "they seemed defensive and were reluctant to give me any information. I was pretty frustrated." She left with a 1-800 number for the station's corporate office in North Carolina. But she could never connect with a human being on the other end. That's when Cart called The Post and Courier Watchdog. The newspaper contacted Kangaroo's corporate office to inquire about Cart's case. Within minutes, a company official returned Cart's calls and asked her to fax over her gas receipt and car repair bill. Paul Moody, a division vice president with The Pantry Inc., said the company uses electronic monitoring and other tests to check its tanks for water and found "no record of any contamination." Moody said that if the station had dispensed water in its gas, he would expect more claims from other customers, but there have been no others. The company did receive a few claims recently after its Kangaroo Express station at 2220 Middle St. on Sullivan's Island had a breech in an underground line that allowed water to contaminate some of its gasoline, Moody said. After her experience, Cart lodged a complaint with the state Department of Agriculture, which certifies gas pumps and monitors fuel quality. Becky Walton, the department's director of public information, said the agency sent an investigator to the station Friday to take a sample of the gas. The sample is being analyzed and the results will be sent to Cart, she said. Water can get into gas either at the vehicle's tank or in the station's underground storage. Walton said water can form inside vehicle gas tanks when condensation settles in the bottom of the tank. She recommends keeping the tank near full so that any settled water or sediment doesn't get sucked into the engine. Gas stations and state inspectors routinely check for water in underground storage tanks, but water can get into gas there too, either by condensation or seepage, said Darrell Hixson, service manager at Hendrick Honda, where Cart had her car repaired. The dealership's service garage sees about one case of contaminated fuel a month, he said. "Most of the time it can come from rainwater that overcomes the seal on the storage tank," Hixson said. "Also, in the high humidity like we have in Charleston, a storage tank that's low and has air in it can form condensation that becomes water." Paul Charles, a local real estate agent, said he recently bought some bad gas at a different area gas station. A state inspection found water and sediment had gotten into his Lexus' gas tank from the station. He had to pay about $500 to get his car fixed, but the station's owner has been responsive, he said. Walton said state testing this month confirmed the presence of water in the gasoline at the Kangaroo Express at 3586 Savannah Highway, where Charles got his gas. The station's manager was not available for comment Wednesday, but Walton said the station had since corrected the problem. Walton said she's not aware of any uptick in water-related gas complaints, but the state is receiving more complaints in general from motorists questioning the accuracy of pumps. People are just more attuned to such issues because of high gas prices, she said. "They want to get their money's worth." Jeff Lenard, vice president of communications for the National Association of Convenience Stores, said it's possible that some gas stations are filling their storage tanks less frequently because of high prices, which would increase the likelihood of contaminants getting into their customers' tanks. Lenard said most gas stations already operate on such slim profit margins that running low storage tanks is risky business. "You never want to run out of gas because nobody's going to go inside and buy coffee." Reach Ron Menchaca at rmenchaca@postandcourier.com or 937-5724. |
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Comments
This article has 39 comment(s)
Posted by Neponset on July 17, 2008 at 7 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I do not top off my tank - just add enough to get by. I recently asked my full service station owner, if he though I should add an additive to absorb any moisure. Answer - No - modern car fuel systems are sealed and moisture can not get into the tank.
Posted by ColdBeer on July 17, 2008 at 7:10 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Come on Josephine. Let hop in grandma's FUV and go to the Earth Fair...
Yet another hypocritical tree hugger.
She "may" have had water in her fuel, but who knows where that came from... since the store received no other reports of bad gas, you can bet it didn't come from them.
Posted by ColdBeer on July 17, 2008 at 7:19 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Neponset, moisture can get in the tank, but it is usually not enough to worry about putting an additive in. If you have 1/2 a tank of gas, you also have 1/2 a tank of air. Around here, that means 1/2 tank of air with 80 - 90% humidity. On cooler nights, that moisture in the air condences in your gas tank. It's not enough to cause your car to shut off, but it can, over time, foul your fuel injectors. It's a good idea to run a fuel system/injector cleaner a couple of times a year at least.
Posted by wpc3iop on July 17, 2008 at 7:26 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Very considerate of the station since there were no other complaints...I guess they don't want a picket line of do-gooders and tree huggers...
Posted by Tammie on July 17, 2008 at 7:39 a.m. (Suggest removal)
*with stars in my eyes* CB is so smart....Lol
Seriously though, I drive an older car and I wondered about adding an additive for the moisture since so darn humid down here as well. Thanks for the info CB.
Posted by Neponset on July 17, 2008 at 7:41 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Cold Beer
What you are saying is true for vented tanks, but it is my understanding that modern tanks are sealed and not vented - I will check on this detail.
Posted by suec on July 17, 2008 at 7:47 a.m. (Suggest removal)
That is one big 2 year old or either Ms Cart is tiny.
I never buy gas at a station that is below sea level.
Posted by number1volsfan1 on July 17, 2008 at 7:50 a.m. (Suggest removal)
My mechanic friend says she probably was taken by her mechanic. He says gas filled into a vehicle tank when the gas is 10 degrees or more cooler than the air may cause a type of embolism called "vapor lock". If this is the case, she only needed to wait about an hour for the gas temp to stabilize.
Can anyone verify this?
Posted by tripsa on July 17, 2008 at 7:58 a.m. (Suggest removal)
You mean an evil oil distributing company did the right (get right for right wing {thats why wrong is left}) thing here?
I thought they hated us poor consumers.
Way to go The Pantry Inc.,!
Posted by ColdBeer on July 17, 2008 at 8:01 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I can't say for sure if tanks are made without vents or not Neponset. It seems to me like they ought to have vents of some sort as gas expands quite a bit when it gets hot, but they may be making some that are not vented. Even if not vented though, you are still allowing moist air in the tank every time you take the cap off to put gas in. That's why manufacturers recommend topping off a gas tank when you are going to leave it sitting for a while (I.E. winterizing a boat).
Posted by RTC on July 17, 2008 at 8:13 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Okay, so my daughter's vehicle just had to have the entire fuel system flushed, so can we go after the gas station and say it was caused by bad gas? No, it was more likely clogged because she lets her tank get so low that it had sucked up junk out of the tank into the system.
I seriously don't know how this lady can prove that she got water in her gas from this station. I bet if she hadn't gone to the media, she wouldn't have a leg to stand on.
Posted by ColdBeer on July 17, 2008 at 8:14 a.m. (Suggest removal)
number1volsfan, there are two common occurrences that people refer to as vapor lock.
One is sort of as you described. If an engine is hot, the gas entering the carburetor, or the fuel rail on injected systems, can, sometimes, actually boil off in to a gas. This isn't too common anymore as most injected systems operate at a high enough fuel pressure to prevent the gas from boiling. Not too many cars are built with carburetors any more (if any).
A second issue you'll hear referred to as vapor lock is when you completely top off a tank and then drive at a decent speed for a length of time. The fuel systems are sealed well enough where you could actually create vacuum in the gas tank, making it harder for the fuel pump to suck the gas from the tank. Personally, I don't think this can actually happen as I think that all of the tanks are vented.
Basically, vapor lock doesn't happen like it used to 20 years ago.
Posted by tripsa on July 17, 2008 at 8:19 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I had vapor lock last night after that chili and beer...man that was rough!
Posted by number1volsfan1 on July 17, 2008 at 8:20 a.m. (Suggest removal)
ColdBeer
Thanks for clearing that up. The explanation I got was that cold gas will expand rapidly enough to force enough air into the fuel line/pump to require the pump to lose its vacuum and need to "re-prime" itself.
With proper ventilation, I can see where that wouldn't be the case.
Posted by number1volsfan1 on July 17, 2008 at 8:27 a.m. (Suggest removal)
tripsa
Now I understand the nightmare you had when you envisioned the offshore oil rig.
"Can we get an oil rig, flying the confederate flag, with an ACLU office right next door the planned parenthood office that sits right next to the NAACP office that is right next door to the Gay tourism office?
While were at it, build a rail out to the rig and back, install the electric chair, hang an IBelieve plate from the rig. Then put an Obama08/McCain08 bumper sticker on it."
Beer and chili will do that every time.
LOL
Posted by Neponset on July 17, 2008 at 8:31 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Cold Beer
Just got off the phone with a guy from Marchant Chev. He agrees that modern fuel systems are sealed and the expansion/contraction due to temperture changes is handled typically by a bladder.
Posted by tripsa on July 17, 2008 at 8:39 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Neponset - dont even mention the bladder!
Posted by Neponset on July 17, 2008 at 8:48 a.m. (Suggest removal)
trip
Sorry for my insensitivity - I spend more money at my filling station on beer than gas.
Posted by Early on July 17, 2008 at 8:52 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Sounds like vapor lock to me. Is water not heavier than gas? if she filled up the moisture would be on the bottom of tank. I do not know where the Honda pulls it's gas from on the tank though or, maybe someone got mad at her and pissed in her tank?
Posted by lucy_fan on July 17, 2008 at 8:58 a.m. (Suggest removal)
"she recommends keeping the tank near full" What???? Are you supposed to go to the gas station every day?? Does that make sense to anyone else here? Or I am that much of an airhead??
Y'all, be nice to me when you answer that one!
Posted by Neponset on July 17, 2008 at 9:04 a.m. (Suggest removal)
lucy
Yes, but to get more beer. I add 5 to 10 gallons of gas to my tank (1500 Chev.) when the fuel light comes on.
Posted by ColdBeer on July 17, 2008 at 9:28 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Neponset, the bladder sounds correct. I hadn't thought about using one of those. Even so, you still get air in the tank each time you take the cap off, so moisture can build up, especially with this humidity.
Early, all vehicle fuel systems draw fuel from the bottom of the tank. You are correct that the fuel will float on top of the water. If water were to get in the system, it would be sucked up before the fuel.
Another "possible" answer could be this: A lot of manufacturers pay dealers at a lower rate for work on warranty claims than the dealer would get on a normal, customer billable, service event. This is why some dealers argue that a repair is not covered by warranty when it's obvious that it should be. Not all dealers do this, but some do. She may have had a warranty issue that the service center fixed and then decided to claim it was something else, allowing them to bring in more money. I.E. She may have had a loose connector on an injector wiring harness. That would cause the car to stall and run rough. Tightening the connector would use no parts and only 30 minutes of labor. That would have earned the service center less than $100.00. By tightening the connector and then telling the customer they had “contaminated fuel”, they make more money.
I’m not saying that is what happened here, but similar things have been known to happen in the past.
Posted by lucy_fan on July 17, 2008 at 9:29 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Neponset- Alas, no more beer runs for me. *sigh* I try to cap off my tank when it gets to about half, but I certainly don't want to do so any more often than that.
And thanks for being nice in your reply. I was afraid I was really gonna get it in regards to the airhead thing. Especaiily from Early and tripsa! :)
Posted by Early on July 17, 2008 at 9:35 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Now Lucy, I love you man! I wouldn't do that.
Beer is less expensive than gas so so it makes no sense not to pick up beer while at a gas station!!!
Posted by coolfreaknbeans on July 17, 2008 at 9:36 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Recently I bought gas to put in my lawn equipment.(weed eater and mower)The mower had different gas in it.It ran out of gas mid mow and I put the new gas in it.The mower chugged and wouldnt even START!Same with the weed eater.I had to buy something to put in it to remove the water,then they both worked.These places are watering down gas,intentionally or not.
Posted by lucy_fan on July 17, 2008 at 9:50 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Thank you Early. I appreciate that.
I can't drink anymore. (Well, I'm not supposed to, lets put it that way) Doesn't that just suck!!
Posted by justmyopinion7 on July 17, 2008 at 10:09 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Hemp Powered Car Debuts in Washington DC
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9Am3yUDt...
Posted by MissPriss on July 17, 2008 at 10:24 a.m. (Suggest removal)
My mother had to pay 1200 for repairs after gassing up at a local gas station. Afterwards, the gas station wouldn't take responsibility. At least these guys stepped up even though this was the only complaint they've received.
Posted by Neponset on July 17, 2008 at 10:25 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Lucy
Don't know what type of driving you do, but if its light, try just adding enough gas to last for a week - why buy and haul around excess fuel - a business would not maintain excess inventory and why should you.
Posted by ColdBeer on July 17, 2008 at 10:45 a.m. (Suggest removal)
On the other hand... as long as prices are going up.. you're better off filling up each time. Why buy 10 gallons at $4/gallon this week and then 10 gallons at $4.10/gallon next week when you could have bought all 20 gallons at $4/gallon?
Posted by Tammie on July 17, 2008 at 11:04 a.m. (Suggest removal)
That is a big ole 2 year old...lol With her binky in her mouth...
Posted by lucy_fan on July 17, 2008 at 11:19 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Neponset- I am lucky- I only work 10 minutes from home, so I don't do too much driving during the week. That is one of the reasons I stopped taking lunches. To save gas. I always went to the tanning bed on my lunch hour, and even thought it was only a few miles from my office, i am so surprised at what a difference it has made in my gas tank. I drive an SUV, but still, a tank will last me just over a week.
Posted by Neponset on July 17, 2008 at 11:44 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Cold Beer
I have hear this logic before, but I don't use that much fuel and some days its up and some days its down - win a few, loose a few. Call me a spot market buyer. Suppose all the folks like me did as I do, it would send a shock thru the market for a little while.
Posted by ColdBeer on July 17, 2008 at 4:27 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Julia Cart, The Manson Family called, they want their hair and glasses back...
Posted by lifes_adventure on July 18, 2008 at 12:28 a.m. (Suggest removal)
The hot air streaming from Pelosi's mouth could fuel the world for generations yet to come. Democrats out, Republicans in for now and forever...Never will I vote for a Democratic anything ever again! I denounce my New England heritage. Please forgive me for my past indiscretions (i.e. arrogance).
Posted by lifes_adventure on July 18, 2008 at 12:39 a.m. (Suggest removal)
She's a "fine arts photographer." You're kidding, right? Uh oh, I think I just pissed my pants from hard laughter.
Posted by ssluce on July 24, 2008 at 10:56 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I am the supervisor of a local courier buisness and using a gas card company that limits me to particular stations. In the past month I have had several cars taken into the shop due to cutting off and hesitations. My own motorcycle will start but sputter off when given gas. I need my bike for school and work and Im not sure what to do. Where or how do I get the gas tested?
Posted by ssluce on July 24, 2008 at 11:55 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I suppose nobody here was around in the 70's when stations watered down gas on a regular basis? Maybe one of you would like to come take a sniff of my gas tank and tell me if you really smell gas because it just dosent seem right that all of the same issues are occuring to our vehicles at the same time. I will empty my bike tank out this weekend and have a look for myself.
Posted by ferronimo on July 31, 2008 at 12:09 a.m. (Suggest removal)
ssluce: If you suspect that a particular source of your fuel has caused damage to anything you own (so long as it RUNS on that fuel,) you can call the SC Dept. of Agriculture @ 803-737-9690, and they will send an inspector to that place. He or she will conduct a test for water contamination in the tank, and then draw a sample from either the specific pump (if you can remember which one,) or possibly multiple pumps. Make sure you specify which grade of gas you suspect. The sample(s) will be analyzed the next day, and you can request a reply by phone, mail, or both. The lab report is a legal document that any court will recognize if it goes that far. The station will also be notified, and will have the same report you get. If water in the fuel IS found by the inspector at the station or by the lab the next day, that particular tank, and all the pumps fed by it will be "secured from public sale" by the inspector until the problem is fixed and then reinspected and released by the lab. If water is confirmed, and the station is independently-owned, ask for the owner. If it's a chain store, ask for the manager. As for your motorcycle, you should have a water separator (bowl) at the tank petcock. Also, drop and drain the carb bowls. If it is a newer Kamakazeewawa with injecto-zoiderators, yer screwed. And finally, gas stations have NEVER been able to "water-down" the gas. The two just do NOT mix, and engines have never been able to run well with any water whether carburated or injected. Stations have always been plagued with condensation, and water seepage into the tank or lines, and even the carriers have been known to drop water (accidently, of course, but I like the word NEGLIGENCE better.) It is true tho, that it's easier to get water out of a carb than a fuel injection rail, so the mechanix bill is much higher now. Good luck.