Buyers seek builder's answers
Unfinished projects among issues in subdivision
The Post and Courier
Many homeowners in Hidden River on the Ashley, a new development off Dorchester Road, have found answers to construction deficiencies and other problems hard to come by. Homeowner Lisa Corbett, who says the builder has abandoned projects such as the one pictured above, has organized a meeting with other residents.
The Post and Courier
Lisa Corbett
Lisa Corbett thought she was buying her dream house. But she said it's been nothing but a nightmare since the day she closed on it 11 months ago.
Corbett, who moved from Columbia to a new neighborhood off Dorchester Road in North Charleston, said she encountered a window with water damage, a chipping driveway and other minor problems with her Pomfret Street house in Hidden River on the Ashley, part of The Park at Rivers Edge subdivision.
She and other residents say the development has stopped midstream, with unfinished houses with open doors and windows, lopsided lampposts and broken sidewalks.
"Anybody could walk in and squat down and have parties and God knows what," Corbett said.
She and her neighbors point to a huge mound of concrete rubble that has sat at the end of one street for at least a year, along with two large trash containers even though construction appears to have stopped.
They are wondering if the developer, Martin Henry Investments of Greer, and an affiliated construction company, A & J Builders, have run out of money.
Construction manager Drew Frazier said that's not the case at all.
"We paused construction, and we are working on financing the new project," he said. "Sometimes you have to duck and dodge a little."
The new project is the area behind Corbett's house, near the Ashley River, an area she was told would never be developed and would remain a wetland.
"That's one of the reasons I bought where I did," she said.
Two months after construction began on her home, she noticed most of the trees were gone. She had paid about $5,000 down on her house and tried to get out of her contract but was unsuccessful.
No houses have been built behind her home yet, but Frazier said the company hopes to start within the year.
Frazier said the homes in Hidden River are left open because workers are coming and going all the time. "Construction is continuing," he said.
Frazier said no one has complained about the leaning lamppost at the end of Park Gate Drive or the pile of rubble and trash containers.
"This is the first I have heard of it," he said.
John and Natasha Day settled with A & J Builders on June 27 to get back their $5,100 down payment on the town house they bought in February.
The couple said they didn't like the way the mortgage filing was handled nor the lack of interest in fixing the lamppost that was knocked askew by heavy equipment when workers dug up the driveway to repair a leaking water pipe months ago.
The Days are glad they are leaving by month's end, but they are not happy with what's happened.
"It's sad because a lot of people who are living here don't know what is going on," Natasha Day said.
Malinda Kennedy has lived on Vermont Road for two years. She has not had structural problems with her home but she is concerned with the appearance of the neighborhood.
Besides the pile of rubble, she pointed out old shower stalls left beside huge trash containers, wires peeking out everywhere and trash in the pond.
"It's not an appealing site to drive through," Kennedy said.
As for Corbett's problems, Frazier, who lives just down the street from Corbett, said he's been trying to be professional about her problems and address them as best he can.
"She wanted me to jackhammer up her driveway and re-pour it," Frazier said. "It was a totally irrational way to solve the problem. I told her I would be happy to repatch it."
Corbett thinks it was poor-quality concrete work and should be redone.
On residents' complaints that construction might not be up to par, Frazier disagrees.
"I think we are as professional and top quality as any houses anywhere," he said. "When you build 140-plus houses, you are liable to have one or two problems. I'm willing to do whatever it takes to make things right."
Frazier said he never told Corbett there would not be development behind her house on a 51-acre tract owned by Martin Henry Investments Inc. Corbett said a site manager told her the tract would never be developed.
Charleston County recently posted a delinquent tax notice for 2007 taxes of $20,301 not being paid on the undeveloped tract. If not paid by Oct. 31, the property gets added to the county's tax sale on Nov. 3, according to the county's Delinquent Tax Office.
Martin Henry Investments and A & J Builders also face several liens filed in the Charleston County Court of Common Pleas by subcontractors who say they have not been paid.
"We are working to resolve them," Frazier said.
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Comments
CharlestonJim (anonymous) says...
Shockingly, people are having problems with out of town contractors and their work. Even more suprising, some people question the honesty and pride home builders have with their work.
What is the world coming to?
Has this ever happened before?
July 7, 2008 at 2:17 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Neponset (anonymous) says...
It is not surprising to me that we are hearing about problems with recently built homes. When one considers the scale of new construction over the last decade, the question should be asked: who is building these houses?
My guess is that the contractors and specially contractors with skill and experience could not do all this work and others with little or no skill or experience have stepped in to catch the overflow and the results are lots of problems.
Don't blame it all on out of town folks - I have been a specialty contractor (doing home repair) and have had lots of jobs to correct problems created by locals.
July 7, 2008 at 5:40 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
moonpie (anonymous) says...
NEPONSET hit it on the head. But it does sound a bit like a disgruntled buyer too. AND it appears the builder has run out of money. Look at Tanner Hall Plantation (home to the poker bust) $300k to $850k homes. Some started 3 yrs ago and are unfinished. Some hugh homes framed and dried in now have broken windows they have sat so long without any more work to completion. Contractors trying to build a house to make some money ran out of money during construction and then there is the housing market downturn...
Hey ya'll how's that cheap labor working out?!
July 7, 2008 at 6:05 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Neponset (anonymous) says...
I think another problem is the type of house currently in vogue ie multi story with vinyl, wood or Hardy plank siding, which are susceptible to wall leakage if not flashed correctly. Older homes of single story, lots of roof overhang and brick veneer where less susceptible to wall leaks.
July 7, 2008 at 6:20 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
JohnS (anonymous) says...
New track built homes do only have a small overhang from the roof. Also many places have stopped building new homes. Not just this development.
July 7, 2008 at 7:12 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
gococks1985 (anonymous) says...
I know of this company and the word of the day when it comes to dealing with them is: RUN!!!! They do not stand behind their word. I have personal dealings and know this to be true what Ms. Corbett is going through. They have stopped all construction on the triplex's in Summerville. This too is a reason for the property to be depreciated around that area. Again....RUN!!!!
July 7, 2008 at 7:12 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
suec (anonymous) says...
Just like a lot of things these days, people buy what looks good on the surface with no thought to the structural integrity.
"If it feels good, do it" has been replaced by "if it looks good, buy it."
July 7, 2008 at 7:20 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
theronce (anonymous) says...
For years I've watched what appeared to me as poorly built homes go up on clear-cut land one on top of the other and expected the problems to hit either with a little age or with a small huricane. Many have been built on land that will flood easily.
July 7, 2008 at 7:41 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
billtom (anonymous) says...
When we first planned to move here, we were going to buy into new developments. When the contractor reneged on the contract we quick like a bunny had to find a new home (we had already sold our other home). We settled in Crowfield Village, Ladson, and are happy. The homes have been here for 20 years, survived a major hurricane and are sturdy built. For what we would have spent on a new home we can put into remodeling this one. Plus the duplex, rather than townhome, gives us more yard room.
July 7, 2008 at 8:04 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
katrenavantassle (anonymous) says...
So sad for these people. And watch out! First storm warning for the USA, "Bertha" may be coming!! I wonder how the cookie cutter homes in the Woodlands behind Wal-Mart in Oakbrook will hold up. I watched them being built at 3 a day...so fast and so cheap looking. No trees to break the wind at all in that neighborhood!
July 7, 2008 at 8:12 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
BlueGrits (anonymous) says...
I lived in the Park at River's Edge for nearly 20 years until 2005 when developer's STRIPPED the woods behind the houses. Prior to this, it was a quantly small subdivision with beautiful woods all around. When the duplexes went up, the sight of it was a DISGRACE. The trees were gone, and the "buffer" if you could even call it that was about 2-3 feet thin. There are too many unscrupulous developer's who are paying elected officials to allow them to RAPE the land, build CHEAP homes, utilizing unskilled labor, paying off inspectors to turn a blind eye, for the sake of their own GREED. It breaks my heart to read this story. These "builders" should be sued.
July 7, 2008 at 8:16 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
ysillyme (anonymous) says...
Who was it that said, "theres a sucker born every day"? He must have had Charleston in his thoughts. The builders shouldn't be sued bluegrits, the idiots who buy their inferior homes got what they deserved. Real losers: the ecosystem getting raped.
July 7, 2008 at 8:29 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Neponset (anonymous) says...
y
P.T.Barnum (sp?)
Your wrong - take them to court!
July 7, 2008 at 8:33 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
common_sense (anonymous) says...
Realtors & their buds in the mortgage industry foisted the ideal on people that "you CAN buy a home, with nothing down & questionable credit). Large national builders, and locals, bought large swaths of land, clearcutted the whole thing, save a few scraggly pines (aka- lightning rods!), and placed 4 cheaply build vinyl-sided homes per acre.
These duct tape homes aren't built to last, and definately are not quality construction. The facts are, the realtors & mortgage bankers lured people into the market who didn't have the credit or the savvy to be a homeowner, and they were pigeonholed into these cheap homes. Now that many of these people are defaulting on their ARM's, we're about to see many of these suburban communities become ghettos, as prices fall & speculators buy these properties, and convert them into rentals.
If you're in a financial position to buy a home, buy a brick home that's at least 10-15 years old. It should be solid, in an established neighborhood, and you won't suffer from vinyl-itis.
I'm just sayin...
July 7, 2008 at 8:39 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
drp7773 (anonymous) says...
It starts with builders who have no morals, who at the turn of a hat will go out of business then start up again under a new company name (same owners on the paperwork) and then they get the ok to build even tho they have all the lawsuits on the other company name. Why the state, county and cities allow this , who knows....Second they do not have enough inspectors to go house to house and inspect all the work so they just paperwhip the forms to give the ok to continue and of course it's who you know....And finally it's the workers you have on most sites )illegals everywhere) because according to the builders it saves money, but I have yet to see the price go down on the sale price for cheap and non qualified labor, the work is at best sub standard. 1x2's are used when it should be a 2x4 etc. And again, the builder should and is on the sites everyday and should be making sure that even tho it past inspection that it really does pass inspection to give the consumer their monies worth but of course many many many times this is not happening. And the house warrenty you buy , well lets just say for the most part its a waste of ink.....
July 7, 2008 at 8:42 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
TinaR (anonymous) says...
CommonSense, I think that it is about time you start using some. There is no way in the world that a realtor or mortgage person is to blame for what is going on in this neighborhood. That fault would lie with the builder. Besides, I have seen several people that I know who did not think that they would be able to purchase a home, do so because of programs that both realtors and mortgage people both knew about. And these folks are paying less in a mortgage payment than they were in rent payments. You look for a conspiracy in just about everything, and sometimes, there just isn't one.
July 7, 2008 at 9:03 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
shoelaces (anonymous) says...
Prior to closing on a home you should have the home inspected. I don't live in a cookie cutter subdivision and hope to goodness I never have to. I have lived in a much older home and when we had it inspected we discovered quite a few issues.
Buyer beware!!! Especially when these builders come through and slap up a few dozen homes in 6 months. Sadly, you get what you pay for.
I may be the bad guy here but when you buy a home it is your responsibility to have it inspected. Don't use "their" inspectors get one of your own or get two of your own. There are too many people trying to rip you off today.
July 7, 2008 at 9:03 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Neponset (anonymous) says...
Common
I think you are right about some areas turning into ghettos. It will be interesting and sad to see how this story ends up.
July 7, 2008 at 9:07 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
grandpa1 (anonymous) says...
It seems everyone these days is quick to point the finger at the builders. Granted many can be a very unscrupulous, with the quality of their work questionable at best. However the real problem lies with the local governments that allow these poor quality developments to be built within their jurisdictions. This particular devolpment is another perfect example of the City of North Charleston, being so greedy at the possiblity of additional tax dollars coming into the City's coffers that will allow the clear cutting of beautiful wetlands, all the way back to the Ashley River, and then allowing that same land to be used for substandard quality building. Buildings that they HAVE TO SIGN OFF as ready for occupancy.
July 7, 2008 at 9:17 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
common_sense (anonymous) says...
TinaR's comment above was brought to you by Countrywide, a division of Bank of America, and the National Association of Realtors.
Honey, realtors & mortgage bankers conspired to steer low income/poor credit individuals towards certain communities that were built shoddily. As more mortage bankers approved people with questionable credit, more shoddily built homes were built. Supply & demand.
Realtors, mortgage bankers & construction companies all had their run & made out like bandits. Now that the gravy train has dried up, I hear Waffle House needs waitresses.
I'm just sayin...
July 7, 2008 at 9:20 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Neponset (anonymous) says...
shoe
Inspectors are a joke for the most part - just folks who have gone thru some basic training, with no building experience, looking for a fee. They come up with a long list of superficial deficiencies to justify their fee - like leaking "p" traps and burned out flood lites on the back porch.
July 7, 2008 at 9:22 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Floger76 (anonymous) says...
common_sense - "Realtors & their buds in the mortgage industry foisted the ideal on people that "you CAN buy a home, with nothing down & questionable credit)." You may want to do a little homework on where most of the 100% programs for people with questionable credit came from. You may want to start with learning about something called CRA. As far as your comment regarding "4 cheaply build vinyl-sided homes per acre"-Four homes per acre actually yields a lot size of about one third of an acre. Thats because the roads and easements eat up their share of the land as well. But I'm sure you knew that. But I'm also sure you knew that the biggest reason the lot size are continually shrinking is that the cost of producing a buildable lot continues to go up. Any idea how much road water and sewer costs per linear foot??? I didn't think so. But why would you want to learn about something when you can just cast dispersions at an entire industry because there are some bad apples.
July 7, 2008 at 9:34 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
shoelaces (anonymous) says...
Neponset - I am sorry that most people can't go out and do the leg work required to ensure that they are buying a quality product.
You (we do anyway) get a few estimates before hiring someone to do a job. Get a QUALITY inspector or two to check something out. If people are too lazy to do the work then it is their fault.
When we were duped, we were going to sue the company who inspected our home. I contacted their insurance company, shared the information I had and presto!!! They had to pay for all of the repair work to the house. If you start making noise and rattling cages you would be surprised what you can accomplish. And if you take some time to ask around you will find some good names and people to do the work.
If someone is willing to live in a "poor" quality home that took 6 weeks to build then they probably aren't willing to take the time to do their homework.
You get what you pay for.
July 7, 2008 at 9:48 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
common_sense (anonymous) says...
Floger, I'm not trying to cast aspersions on an entire industry. However, I'm sure you'll join me in the overall conclusions I drew above. People were convinced they could buy a home when their credit said they could not. Builders (some builders) built shoddy tract homes in close proximity to each other. Maybe not four per acre...six may be more like it, which is even worse. Economies of scale, I know, but at what price?
Now the land encircling Charleston has been raped & deforested by these duct tape homes that are losing what little value they had daily.
I'm just sayin...
July 7, 2008 at 9:54 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
kingsacura (anonymous) says...
"I think we are as professional and top quality as any houses anywhere," he said. "When you build 140-plus houses, you are liable to have one or two problems. I'm willing to do whatever it takes to make things right."
If you take a look around , ALL builders are building CRAP. None of them build a quality houses. We had a KB Home (in Hanahan) and had to get a lawyer. It would not even pass code .It took them over a year to fix everything. Than we sold the dump. The inspectors are letting these builders get way with it. The house we have now was built in 1960. The quality is much better. Buy an old house that survived Hugo.
July 7, 2008 at 10:01 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
ysillyme (anonymous) says...
common_sense--I see this as a result of the building boom, not just here but especially here. The bankers and buyers literally went bankrupt trying to gouge the other one and now turn to the public (gov't.) to bail them out. Now with the economy gone south, folks aren't willing nor able to bail anyone else. Make sense? i.e gas prices and food prices etc.
July 7, 2008 at 10:12 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
kingsacura (anonymous) says...
CommonSense, I think that it is about time you start using some. There is no way in the world that a realtor or mortgage person is to blame for what is going on in this neighborhood. That fault would lie with the builder. Besides, I have seen several people that I know who did not think that they would be able to purchase a home, do so because of programs that both realtors and mortgage people both knew about. And these folks are paying less in a mortgage payment than they were in rent payments. You look for a conspiracy in just about everything, and sometimes, there just isn't one.
Tina,
What?? The realtor and the mortgage people are at fault here also. The realtor has no idea these are crap houses? And hey interest free mortgage. Now the interest is due and the fool who fell for it can't afford the payment. So now we have to bail them all out. Common Sense would tell you these people can't afford it.
And Grandpa -so true
July 7, 2008 at 10:15 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
TinaR (anonymous) says...
CommonSense, if the Waffle House needs a waitress, then you should apply.. "I'm just sayin..." Seeing as how I own and operate my own business, I will not be needing to apply.
Again, there are plenty of programs available to people who would like to buy a home and work with you if your credit is questionable in order to help you fix said credit. There is NACA and one with the city were you have to prove you can save money in addition to attending home buying classes. There is also, the Nehemiah Program for downpayment assistance. There are plenty of things that these people have to do in order to qualify and I am sure that the "mortgage people" are not to blame 100%. Most of these programs have what are called regulations, which come from the government, and risk losing federal funds should they be acting shady. It is time for you to actually know what you are talking about before you get caught looking a tad bit silly.
When my husband and I were interested in getting a new home, the first thing that we did was talk to the bank to see what we qualified for. Once we knew that, we had a decision to make, did we use all the money that the bank would give us, or did we go with an amount that we felt comfortable with mortgage wise, which was a great deal lower than the bank said we could afford. Answer: We went with the lower $. Then once we found a new construction home we liked, we got it inspected. Why? Call it being responsible buyers.
You simply cannot blame everyone around you when you make a bad decision. Did this particular home owner make a bad decision, possibly, is the builder at fault probably, can the city do more thing, not likely, since they would have to hire and train more staff to help, then people would be fussing that they have to pay more in taxes.
July 7, 2008 at 10:19 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Neponset (anonymous) says...
Shoe
I am sorry also. I am older than most and have experienced the building boom since WW II. My father , with a friend/master carpenter built the first new house I lived in. I have had an interest in building and industrial arts all of my life and am happy to have spent some time in this art/craft and have known a number of fine craftsman/builders. Unfortunately nobody cares any more about craftsmanship/building.
July 7, 2008 at 10:21 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
common_sense (anonymous) says...
I love how realtors try to justify themselves, when they share blame, praying on those who should not have bought a home. People are responsible for their own actions, but to pray on those who simply don't know any better is poor form. In the end, the realtors simply look like used car salesman. And the ads that the National Association of Realtors are currently running on TV are disingenuous.
I'm just sayin...
July 7, 2008 at 10:29 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
TinaR (anonymous) says...
Kingsacura, in my opinion you cannot blame a realtor for showing you a house in a price range that you can afford. As the buyer of the home, it is up to you to do the homework necessary as far as having your home of choice inspected new or not. I seriously doubt any of the realtors out there, are going to be visiting new construction neighborhoods on a daily basis in order to gauge how the homes are being built. That is not their job. Do I believe that realtors will go out and see some of these neighborhoods, my answer is yes, since they need to know what is available. Nowadays, since the market has slowed, many of these new construction neighborhoods, are not builidng unless they have a contract, which means again, the buyer has the opportunity to view the home in the many stages of construction and hire an inspector to follow the process for them. How do I know this, because that is what happened with my husband and I. We found something that we liked, and it took several months to build. We did not find it, and then move in, in 30 days.
That is what is wrong with alot of things in this country, people what to blame the other guy because they are being responsible for themselves.
Every buyer makes the decision wheter to use a realtor or not, every buyer makes the decision to sign the contract, the buyer decides who they would use for a mortgage, the buyer makes the decision as to what to offer on a house, the buyer makes a decision as to who to use as a closing attorney. That's a lot of control that any buyer has. Besides, if she had held out for the release of contract that she claimed she wanted, she could have sued the builder in small claims court to get her escrow money returned.
July 7, 2008 at 10:35 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
ysillyme (anonymous) says...
TinaR--you seem to have an overstated sense of importance and common sense. You didn't state what business you own, but I'd pick up an application at the Waffle House soon if I were you. Some women should be seen and not heard. Some shouldn't even be seen.
July 7, 2008 at 10:46 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
shoelaces (anonymous) says...
Did this woman do her homework and research this builder? I don't know. Are there some fine tract/cookie cutter homes? Sure there are just as there are some crummy custom built homes.
I like the discussion about the mortgage "crisis." I am just wondering how much it will eventually cost ME to bail out people who should have known better. I already lost my home owner's insurance due to Katrina. A lot of people thought they were going to invest then flip a house and make a profit. That is all well and good but if they couldn't afford it in the first place then it is their fault. We used a realtor when we bought, sold, and built a house. They were responsible enough to talk to us about just what they felt we could afford and not afford.
Is it the realtor's responsibility to ensure you don't over extend yourself? Is it the bank's fault for allowing you to over extend yourself? Or, maybe, just maybe it's YOUR fault when you over extend yourself. It will be interesting to see how this one plays out.
NEPONSET - It is a shame there aren't more builders who take pride in the quality work they turn out. And not everyone can afford to build a $200-300 a square foot home to buy quality. When we built our home we didn't go with the highest bid contractor but we made sure to be here nearly every day to check on things. People have to be willing to take the time to make sure they are getting what they want and keep an eye on things.
July 7, 2008 at 10:53 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Neponset (anonymous) says...
Give tina a break - she is just the person selling this shoddy goods.
July 7, 2008 at 11:09 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
TinaR (anonymous) says...
LOL Neponset. I am not selling shoddy goods as I am not the builder in question, or a builder. What I am selling is owning your sense of responsiblity to yourself. Apparently, I missed the day in school that said when I make a bad decision for myself or my family, then I should blame everyone under the sun except myself. NOW .. I get it.
I am the one who is using common sense as to what MY responsibilties are when I am purchasing a home, and holding only myself and my husband when we make a bad decision.
July 7, 2008 at 11:20 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Neponset (anonymous) says...
I wish to withdraw my last comment - it was inappropriate and unkind.
July 7, 2008 at 11:21 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Neponset (anonymous) says...
This forum is hot! Sorry Tina for upseting you - I should not have made my last comment.
July 7, 2008 at 11:28 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
justafan (anonymous) says...
TinaR for President!!!
It doesn't matter if you are buying a house, car or a boob job. You get what you pay for.
If you want quality construction from someone who takes pride in what they do you need to pay for it.
The truth hurts and people are quick to blame someone else. Lawyers depend on this type of thinking.
July 7, 2008 at 11:33 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
MissVAbch (anonymous) says...
I'm still laughing at common_sense in that he thinks one can "pray on" someone. Its *prey*. Unless it's laying on 'of hands' that we're talkin about.
Just sayin'.
And the argument that realtors should be held responsible. That made me laugh too. Lets place the blame anywhere so that we don't have to be held accountable ourselves. *rolls eyes*
July 7, 2008 at 11:44 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
justafan (anonymous) says...
I agree
July 7, 2008 at 11:44 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Neponset (anonymous) says...
Just
The problem is that people are not getting what they paid for (ie a well built house at the quality level that they paid for).
July 7, 2008 at 11:46 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Oceanlover (anonymous) says...
These kinds of neighborhoods are the future slums of Charleston and surrounding counties. Mortgage brokers, builders, realtors and politicians are complicit in building them and allowing such gridlock and clearcut inducing schlock to be foisted on those of us who knew better. W/gas as expensive as it is, more and more folks are going to look at thse places as being too expensive to live/commute to - in addition to having adjustable mortgages they can no longer service. As they age, they're going to look more and more shoddy - encouraging low-cost rentals, vacancies, vandalism and drug houses. Those that haven't yet been built - good luck seeing them finished. These kind of places will become the new ghost towns and crack hoods of the new millenium. The intown areas will gentrify, the outliers are scr-wed. Developers in this area have been operating on speculative cash just like the buyers, banks and everyone in between. That dries up, and so do the plans. The great real estate unwinding continues. The real shame is the fact that the few good in this biz are also getting taken out with the bad.
But there sure was plenty of bad to go around.
July 7, 2008 at 11:47 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
TinaR (anonymous) says...
Neponsat, you did not upset me in the least, hence the reason for the LOL ( ya know, laugh out loud) when I responded to you. Just like you have an opinion that you are more than certain entitled to, so do I and the many other posters on here. We do not have to agree, because life as we know it will continue either way.
July 7, 2008 at 11:52 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Neponset (anonymous) says...
Cold Beer
I concur.
July 7, 2008 at 11:54 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
common_sense (anonymous) says...
There's no denying that realtors did work in concert with mortgage bankers & builders to steer individuals towards certain developments and/or certain types of housing, namely, the shoddily built tract houses. These three groups of individuals rely on each other for business.
If allowed, they will "prey" (gotta love the grammar police...no ideas of their own, so they look for spelling errors) on the unsuspecting. Again, you are responsible for your own actions, and people need to do their homework before purchasing a home. However, there's case after case where people developed "house fever", and manipulative realtors, mortgage brokers & builders took advantage of it.
If Tyrone & Lequitha were told they could qualify for a 250k mortgage, after living a life in crummy apartments, you better believe they'd jump at that opportunity. This scenario played itself out nationwide. Realtors could care less: they wanted their commission, as did the brokers & builders. Instead of advocating for their customer (realtors) or watching our for the bottom line of their bank (brokers), or keeping a keen eye on shareholders value (national chain builders), this trio...well, we all know what they did, and in the end, it started the bursting of the housing bubble, which helped accelerate the current economic sitution our nation is in.
I'm just sayin...
July 7, 2008 at 11:55 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mrmachi (anonymous) says...
common-nonsense makes me laugh. "I am not trying to cast aspersions on the entire industry." Yet you ramble on and on about how it is all the REALTORS and mortgage brokers fault. Let's face it, you dont like the industry and you are just lumping them all together because you have nothing better to do. Yes, like EVERY industry, there have been some less-than-favorable members of that organization. But lets not ramble on about how all of this was caused by a group of people. I'm sure if you had a job with any significance, we would be able to lump you together with the few bad apples.
July 7, 2008 at 11:59 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
MissVAbch (anonymous) says...
Common_
The mortgage company is the one who qualifies. The realtor has nothing to do with that. It sounds as if you have been caught up in this type of mess and you are grasping at straws for someone to blame, or you have some realtor friends that aren't very ethical and you are assuming that they are all the same.
Gimme a break.
July 7, 2008 at 12:05 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
common_sense (anonymous) says...
Just read the writing on the wall is all. As for me, I'm quite comfortably retired, and still grossing on a daily basis probably more than what 1/2 of you do in a month, since mr. machi decided to go down that road.
As for me, I'm going to go play a round of 18. Continue your debate.
I'm just sayin...
July 7, 2008 at 12:17 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
walleyedwoman1215 (anonymous) says...
I sold my vinyl tract house seven years ago and built a condo; I went to the site often, asked questions, did some research and was satisfied w/the end product. You really do need to be your own advocate. Now I rent that and live in a 90-year-old Craftsman cottage which is solid as a dollar (umm, back when the phrase meant something.)
July 7, 2008 at 12:17 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Neponset (anonymous) says...
Miss
The first line of qualification is the realtor - folks out of their element should not even be allowed to submit a contract.
July 7, 2008 at 12:17 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
MissVAbch (anonymous) says...
The first thing a realtor finds out from clients is if they have been pre-qualified. They won't take them out and show them anything until that is done, otherwise, they are wasting their time. Then the realtor knows what the price range is, pulls potential homes, and shows them. Then when the contract is written, it is submitted with the pre-approval letter from the mortgage company.
Realtors don't qualify. That is what the mortgage co. is for. I'm confused why it it so misunderstood.
Maybe things have changed from when you last bought a home, but that is how an experienced realtor works NOW.
July 7, 2008 at 12:24 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
coolfreaknbeans (anonymous) says...
This like a lot of other "hot topics" boil down to personal accountability.If someone told me they'd finance a 200k car for me(that I knew damn good and well I couldnt afford)should someone "bail" me out out when I start missing payments?So I can keep it.Should I get pity?NO.Maybe I'm heartless but I don't pity people who made 30k a year who went out and got jumbo home loans for 400k for a house and are now whining that they might lose their home.Here's an idea-scale down.As far as new home communities-I live in one and I'm very pleased.When I went looking for homes people wanted a small fortune for used up dumpy pieces of crap.They were dirty(from years of use and wear and tear)and small.To me after much research is was like buying a new car vs buying a used one.Buying a used one is a bigger gamble than buying a new one.Not to mention it was cheaper,nicer,more square footage,had an HOA,clean,came with an amazing warranty and I picked out everything in a design center.And my home immediately appraised for $16,000 over the purchase price.Now after only 7 months-it's up $41,000.Thats not gonna happen in a neighborhood built in 1977.
July 7, 2008 at 12:25 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
MissVAbch (anonymous) says...
We had a similar experience with a home we bought years ago. We stumbled upon a home, had the agent meet us there, and wrote the offer. She never even discussed with us our income, job security, etc. We did, however, discuss these things with a mortgage company to get pre-approval.
So, how is the Realtor to blame? I'm still confused how the agent is the target dumping ground.
July 7, 2008 at 12:34 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
coolfreaknbeans (anonymous) says...
Well said ColdBeer!I picked out my house and our mortgage company said they will(for free)refer an agent to us(just to assist us with any needs/questions)and if we used the agent(even though we built from the ground up)they'd give us $1000 after closing.So hellllooo agent.LOL Loved my agent/lender and builder.
July 7, 2008 at 12:38 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
MissVAbch (anonymous) says...
Posted by common_"Just read the writing on the wall is all. As for me, I'm quite comfortably retired, and still grossing on a daily basis probably more than what 1/2 of you do in a month, since mr. machi decided to go down that road."
Just lookin for your opportunity to be braggity braggity? Don't you know that those with money don't have to brag about it?
Or maybe its those with *class* & money.
Just sayin.
July 7, 2008 at 12:40 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
grandpa1 (anonymous) says...
OK guys help me out. Apparently I have lost my ability to read. I just went back over this article a couple of additional times and have yet to find anything that states the people having the problems were not "qualified" to purchase & pay for these homes. All they are asking is to get what they are paying for.
July 7, 2008 at 12:44 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
NCLawyer (anonymous) says...
You do get what you pay for ...
I hear the complaints about predatory lending, but most folks buying $350,000+ homes are not truly victims of predatory lending. They are victims of the false sense of security credit gives otherwise sensible people to encourage them to live above their means. Also, there is a mentality among homebuyers that buying a home is like buying a car, and that new homes with limited warranties are somehow better than older homes which will certainly need maintenance or repair. Newsflash folks: all homes will have problems, all homes need maintenance. "New is always better" is true only for toothbrushes.
Hindsight is 20/20, but seriously folks, look at old houses and take a contractor with you when you go back for a second look at any house you're thinking of purchasing. And pay for the inspections the realtor recommends! (I've represented many a realtor who gets sued by the client who didn't listen to the realtor's advice to pay for the home inspection, follow-up inspection of problems disclosed by the home inspection, and survey. Newsflash number two: the typically law does not punish the realtor for the homeowner's gamble to purchase property without full inspections.)
Money spent up front is almost always money saved on the backend.
July 7, 2008 at 12:47 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Neponset (anonymous) says...
Miss
Yes, it has been a while since I bought a house and my realtor did a fine job and worked very hard for her commission (lots of problems with the sale). I don't know about "prequalify"), but you don't take a client with a burger budget to look at a million dollar home.
July 7, 2008 at 12:55 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
MissVAbch (anonymous) says...
How would the realtor know what the client's income is when it is not their place to discuss this? The realtor DOES NOT want to show million dollar homes to the burger budget. This is what the pre-qual if for!
An ethical realtor wants their clients to be happy with their home buying decision immediately as well as on down the road. Good realtors have repeat business which is where they find success. Also, realtors do not 'steer' customers anywhere, they could lose their license! Realtors pull all properties matching the clients criteria, and cannot recommend one area over another. They can only give them the info, and show them the homes, and let them make their own decision. And yes, recommend that they hire an inspector.
Most do the right thing, but I'm sure there are a few bad apples in the bunch that can be 'used car salesman' types. But to lump them all together is just ignorant.
July 7, 2008 at 1:31 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Neponset (anonymous) says...
Miss
Define how one gets prequal?
In my day, one would call the real estate agent and ask to be shown a house and if the house suited them, then they would make an offer.
July 7, 2008 at 1:54 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
redman1959 (anonymous) says...
Pretty interesting comments. I work for and with a local homebuilder. One of the things we often talk about is the obvious lack of quality in many of the new homes ie: eaves that are 3-4", low quality vinyl siding, poorly sealed windows, just a real lack of quality. Worse yet, there is a clear lack of Customer service when there is a problem.
We have customer service manager that......well, I've never seen anyon as dedicated to making things right in all my life.
Education is the beginning and like so many of you have said, "You gotta look behind the walls." Most buyers just look at the "window dressing" then gat caught with bad products.
July 7, 2008 at 2:13 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Neponset (anonymous) says...
redman
Your comments are interesting, considering the current flow of feelings.
July 7, 2008 at 2:48 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
coolfreaknbeans (anonymous) says...
Neponset -Your mortgage lender can prequalify after you fill out the application.(not the agent)Thats what we did.I would never waste anyones time.That way you set out and know your budget exactly.NCLawyer- You DO NOT always get what you pay for.The couple in the article yesterday paid $419,000 for a 1500sq ft mold infested home.I agree that ALL homes will need maintenance.A lot of people don't account for that.But a home with a warranty(for no extra cost)to me beats the hell out of an old used home with no warranty at all.Buying an old home,you don't really know how it was maintained and could have tens of thousands of $$ worth of costs the first week.I know for 10yrs I will never have a problem with my homes structure,for two years I will never pay a dime for any mechanical problems with the appliances or AC/heat,hot water heater and so on.For the 1st year I have a 100% warranty on everything(even paint,walls,small flaws,the lawn....)To each is own.But in my experience a new home was a MUCH better value all around.
July 7, 2008 at 3:12 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Neponset (anonymous) says...
ColdBeer
Thanks for the info.
I will try to make commentary on this rigid system of failure later.
July 7, 2008 at 3:14 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
JoeBlow (anonymous) says...
Grandpa1, I agree. Somewhere along the line the folks at Hidden River's problems with the developer got off track. This developer was also the realtor and in some cases the mortgage banker. I looked at some of the units at Hidden River but decided against them due to the size. I was pleasantly surprised to discover The Park at Rivers Edge was a gated community with a planned guard. I can't see the residents of this well maintained community where you can see pride in ownership from the minute you turn in off of Dorchester Rd. allowing Hidden River to become a slum .
July 7, 2008 at 3:33 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
ysillyme (anonymous) says...
coldbeer--that's kind of a strange user name. I am new to posting on Charleston.net, but I have posted before. Do you often attack posters you disagree with? Pride cometh before a fall, have doubts you are familiar with that quote.
July 7, 2008 at 3:44 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
prosperous_hb (anonymous) says...
I'm having issues with my HOA folks, Pluff Mudd Properties. They want HOA fees, but haven't done anything to deserve. My neighborhood doesn't have a playground or a swimming pool. For fun, the kids play on the constructions sites which is not safe.
Any suggestions on how to get them to work for the best interest of my subdivision?
July 7, 2008 at 4:04 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Neponset (anonymous) says...
y
Give ColdBeer a break - I like his user name.
"Pride goeth before ..." Prov 16:18-19.
July 7, 2008 at 4:31 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Floger76 (anonymous) says...
prosperous_hb - You should be able to get a copy of the budget from your HOA. It should give you a breakdown of what the $$$ goes toward.
July 7, 2008 at 5:17 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Brad (anonymous) says...
I have lived in the Park at Rivers Edge for quite some time. I used to hike back in the woods, where the Hidden River development is now. It was a beautiful - wetlands bordering the Ashley River, full of lush vegetation and trees, many large grand oaks and other very large trees, deer, pilated woodpeckers (the huge ones).
Before I left town for a trip, I noticed a number of trees, in what was yet to be Hidden River, marked in different colored tape and I learned that meant that some trees were to be cut & others saved. The developer began excavation in Hidden River while I was gone. When I came home, I was shocked to see extensive clear cutting of this land - even the large trees that should not have been legally cut, were gone.
I witnessed trucks and trucks of dirt carried in to fill the wetlands. As far as the cutting of the grand trees goes, I found out that it's a common practice in the greater Charleston area (among those developers who do not care about the environment) to just pay the county fines on the cut trees, rather than spending the extra money it costs to build around them. I am not sure how this developer got the permit to fill the wetlands, though! What can be done to prevent more of this occuring in the Low Country? Increase the fines on cutting trees? Any thoughts out there?
July 7, 2008 at 10:51 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
coolfreaknbeans (anonymous) says...
prosperous_hb-You can get a copy of the budget.You can also go to meetings and get involved.Voice your opinion,you may not be alone.Unfortunately HOA dues arent ust for pools or playgrounds.They are used to maintain the entire neighborhood,such as landscaping.Good Luck!
July 8, 2008 at 9:12 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Kerry (anonymous) says...
Nothing new here:
Shoddy, poorly constructed tract home development appears and is named after what the property once had to offer.
Prospective buyers are lied to by realtors and builders about future plans in the area.
Contractor "ducks and dodges" problems left in the wake while on his way out of town in his brand new duelly crew cab King Ranch extra duty pickup truck.
These days a motor home is your best housing investment...at least you can move on when things start going downhill.
July 8, 2008 at 9:46 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
inkblot74 (anonymous) says...
HHHhhhmmm...banks are going under, and pulling back their loans. What does anyone expect? It's obvious the economy is effecting everyone, every business, and every community. This story has a lot of holes in it-there's always three sides to a coin and three sides to a story. It's unfortunate that Corbett was "told" this 51 piece tract of land would stay untouched but wasn't it obvious with all the grading going on??? It seems this person is trying to get out of her OBLIGATIONS in a failing market where there is no such thing as job security.
July 25, 2008 at 12:59 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
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