Tonight's GOP debate begins campaigns' S.C. stretch run
'The gloves will be off'
By Robert Behre
'The gloves will be off'
The Post and Courier/File
Republican presidential hopefuls gathered to debate at the Koger Center for the Arts in Columbia in May 2007.
Presidential debates have been so plentiful during the past year that one candidate even derided them as "monkey shows," but tonight's GOP debate in Myrtle Beach looms larger as the stakes rise.
The six leading Republicans will face off at 9 p.m., and Fox News Channel will air the debate nationally. Democrats will hold their own debate in Myrtle Beach on Jan. 21 as their primary enters the home stretch.
It's a month of visits by presidential candidates as both parties vie for the attention of voters.
S.C. Republican Party Chairman Katon Dawson called tonight's debate crucial.
"I think you're going to see one of the most competitive we've seen. I think the gloves will be off," Dawson said. "The Columbia debate in May was an introductory debate. It was a premiere event. Right now, we're heading toward Feb. 5, and information is going to come at a premium." About two dozen states will hold primaries on that date, known as Super Tuesday.
Tonight's debate is expected to be the last time that former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani, U.S. Sen. John McCain, former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee, former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney, former Tennessee Sen. Fred Thompson and Texas Rep. Ron Paul will appear together before the Jan. 19 GOP primary in South Carolina.
A day after New Hampshire voters handed McCain and Democratic Sen. Hillary Clinton big wins, the campaigns turned their sights toward the next contests, which include South Carolina's primaries as well as Michigan's Tuesday primaries and Nevada's Jan. 19 caucuses.
While some experts argue that the Granite State win gave Clinton big momentum, one supporter said it won't matter.
"Here in South Carolina, it's a whole different ballgame, and we had a winnable strategy in South Carolina before (Tuesday) night," said state Sen. Robert Ford, D-Charleston. "The last two times we beat the Republicans was with her husband Bill Clinton. We know we can win with Bill Clinton and Hillary Clinton."
Ford said he was not discouraged by polls showing that Hillary Clinton has slipped behind her main rival in South Carolina, Sen. Barack Obama. He noted that polls also showed Obama leading in New Hampshire. Tuesday's results "proved that polls don't really mean anything," Ford said.
Obama will visit the College of Charleston's Cistern around 11 a.m. today to appear in its Bully Pulpit Series. Those planning to attend need a free ticket, and Mike Robertson, senior director of media relations at the College of Charleston, said the college's ticket allotment for students was exhausted within two hours Wednesday.
Brittany Graham, a sophomore and political science major, staffed a table for the Students for Barack Obama group and handed out her last ticket around noon. She said more than 5,000 people may show up for the event.
"I think that lasting impression is very imperative," Graham said of Obama's stump just weeks before the state's Jan. 26 Democratic primary.
Robertson said a televised viewing of the rally will be available at Physician's Auditorium, which seats about 400.
Jesse Pruitt, a political science major and activist with the ONE awareness campaign at the College of Charleston, picked up a ticket, even though he plans to vote Republican.
"I wish the Republicans would talk more about change than they have," said Pruitt, who likes Ron Paul but said he may switch to McCain because he said he has a better chance of winning.
Joey Froneberger, a 21-year-old student with a double major in political science and communication, hasn't quite made up his mind. He said Mitt Romney is probably best for the economy, but he likes Paul's ideas, though he thinks Clinton has the most experience. Froneberger added that he sees Clinton in a different light after watching the debate in New Hampshire.
"Everybody always talks about how calculating she is," he said. "We kind of saw a vulnerable side that we hadn't seen before. It made her seem more human and more likable."
Former state Sen. Herbert Fielding, an Obama supporter, said Clinton might be helped by her New Hampshire win, but he still expects Obama will "practically walk away with South Carolina on the 26th."
Fielding said he had talked with several people who doubted whether Obama could win in November, but they now believe he can.
"The main thing that has come out is his electability," Fielding said. "That was doubtful for several folks that I talked with in the past. They just felt that because he is African American, America hadn't arrived at the point where he could be elected. I kept saying I just don't believe that, and I think we have come to that point. I think what happened in Iowa just sort of turned that around."
Obama won the Iowa Democratic caucus.
Former U.S. Sen. John Edwards, who won the 2004 Democratic primary in South Carolina, has lagged as a distant third in the state's polls for months, the same position he finished in New Hampshire. Edwards plans to drop by the Lowcountry Food Bank at 6 tonight to meet with supporters and help with the bank, which collects food and distributes it to the needy.
Edwards will be joined by members of One Corps, a local service arm founded by his campaign in cities across the country.
While Michigan's primary looms on Tuesday, the Democratic party punished the state for moving up its date, and most Democratic candidates vowed not to campaign there. Clinton is the only one on the ballot. That's why South Carolina expects more attention from them in the coming weeks, although they also may visit Nevada before that state's Jan. 19 caucus.
"We're looking forward to the next two weeks and the candidates being here," state Democratic Party executive director Joe Werner said.
Michigan is a bit more competitive for Republicans, because it lost only half its GOP delegates by advancing its primary date. However, Republicans have mostly shied away because Romney's father was governor there. Dawson said the national media doesn't seem to be covering the Michigan vote. "Talking to my friends in Michigan, they've not seen the activity that we've seen," he said. "If you want to meet a presidential candidate, South Carolina is the place to hang out."
It certainly will be tonight in Myrtle Beach. While Thompson called the debates "monkey shows" during a Tuesday campaign stop, he added that it will have some value.
"People are going to take away a little better idea of who the conservative is," he said. "You can talk the game, but I was walking the walk before most of these guys were even talking the talk."
While McCain has momentum and Huckabee has been successful — he had a third-place finish in New Hampshire after his win in Iowa — Dawson said neither victory ensures that they'll win here.
"South Carolina is the state that has either made the corrections or put the exclamation mark behind a candidate," he said. "It's extremely up in the air."
Tenisha Waldo contributed to this story. Reach Robert Behre at 937-5771 or at rbehre@postandcourier.com.
E-mail this story
Printer-friendly versionComments
moonpie (anonymous) says...
PM great post we need more like this on all the morons running. I see him just as these links exposed him. He is from corrupt Chicago, his upbringing is cloudy at best, his church that he attends is as racist as you can get(of course only white churches with these extremes would be outed). And these are all documented but the main stream media won't touch it? No doubt who they want for pres. He touts change at every paragraph of every speech but never lays out what change or how he will provide it. Of course none of the others do either. Had high hopes for him but the more I look the more I distrust him.
January 10, 2008 at 6:07 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
moonpie (anonymous) says...
Glad they let Ron Paul in the debate. He is a nerdy dude but listen to his message everyone.
January 10, 2008 at 6:22 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
crankyyankee (anonymous) says...
Though I really doubt Paul can win the nomination, I do like what he has to say and will vote for him if nothing changes. This will keep alive my streak of never having voted for what most voters consider a winner. I really wish someone besides a Democrat or Republican would run and win or at least someone with some integrity. I guess what I am really wishing for is informed voters but that won't happen in my lifetime!
January 10, 2008 at 7:30 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
TomShuford (anonymous) says...
Just a note on the GOP candidates and illegal immigration:
Most South Carolinians know that John McCain has few peers among boosters of illegal immigration. Remember McCain-Kennedy?
"Fool Me Twice, Shame on Me: The McCain/Kennedy amnesty," National Review, May 13, 2005:
http://www.nationalreview.com/comment...
But they may not know that in Mike Huckabee, McCain has met his match. Roy Beck, president of 500,000-strong NumbersUSA:
"He was an absolute disaster on immigration as governor. Every time there was any enforcement in his state, he took the side of the illegal aliens." ("Immigration group: Huckabee a 'disaster,'" Washington Times, Nov. 30, 2007):
http://www.washingtontimes.com/apps/p...
Tom Shuford, Columnist, EdNews.org
Lenoir, NC
http://www.ednews.org/authors/117/Tom...
January 10, 2008 at 9:07 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
horatio (anonymous) says...
McCain is the worst on illegal immigration, followed closely by Huckabee and Julie Annie. Frankly, the GOP is in the process of being hijacked by the neoconlibs who happily let illegal immigrants in if it means furthering the interests of their internationally-minded financiers. Aren't there any actual conservatives running? You know,low-taxing, small-government, America-first candidates that used to have a voice in the party? Why do we need to continue to vote for the lesser of so many evils? No wonder so many voters stay home.
January 10, 2008 at 9:49 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mosinfan (anonymous) says...
Archdude has spoken,
Only those sources he says are legitimate are welcome...talk about closed mindedness! Anyone that espouses something he disagrees with is ignorant. They cant be facts if they dont fit the so called moderate, ralativistic dogma. And archdude...your so called moderate (holier than thou) positions are dogmatic. Gimme a break!
January 10, 2008 at 9:57 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
KidYendor (anonymous) says...
I am voting for Ron Paul. The rest are neocons who will not call for the elimination of any government agencies and will not come out against our disastrous foreign intervention policies. Ron Paul is right. If the Chinese/Koreans/Iranians etc. had bases nearby or on our soil to police us and were walking around our neighborhoods with guns and camouflage I am sure we'd hate their countries and be shooting at them and trying to blow them up too. We need to end our police state/welfare state/nanny state/offend nobody state mentality that pretty much describes what America has become. That's why I must vote for Ron Paul!
January 10, 2008 at 9:58 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
crankyyankee (anonymous) says...
Archdude, I voted for Perot also voted for Steve Forbes who would have made a great leader. I just seem to be out of touch with the main stream, thank goodness!
January 10, 2008 at 10:18 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
tbo (anonymous) says...
Jack Hunter (The Southern Avenger) has a great article on "Islamofascism" in the City Paper this week, you guys should pick it up.
Well actually, here's a link. Since it's a free paper I guess it's not in competition w/ the P&C, right? If it's wrong to link this here I apologize, I'm not trying to anger the P&C, just think it's a neat article.
http://www.charlestoncitypaper.com/gy...
January 10, 2008 at 10:38 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
horatio (anonymous) says...
Good article, tbo. All this invasion did was makes the fanatics over there stronger, and help take our country one step further toward bankruptcy. But who wants to say that the emperor has no clothes, eh?
January 10, 2008 at 10:43 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mosinfan (anonymous) says...
Archdude, I think you last posting made it pretty clear as to who does the name calling and saber rattling. You accuse me of using labels and you do the very same thing. See there is not much difference, only in your mind where you position yoursefl above the rest. As for "winning" any debate yesterday...I see it the other way around. You probably didnt see my last post late last night where I answered you that I have read and understand the "Just War" doctrine and that I just think we draw different conclusions. Is that Ok with you when other people draw different conclusions? Your answer to that question will reveal much.
January 10, 2008 at 10:53 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
CoreyC (anonymous) says...
Ron Paul is open borders.
McCain sponsored amnesty with Kennedy last year.
Rudy/Mitt ran sanctuary cities in their state/cities.
Huckabee supports in-state tuitions for illegals.
Thompson is the only one with a solid record of taking care of the illegal immigration problem. His last stand is in SC and if he doesn't win SC, then the only candidate who is going to take care of the border and illegal immigration will be out of the running and kiss any hope of the problem being fixed, goodbye.. the democrats surely won't do squat about it, they welcome the new democrat voters from mexico.
January 10, 2008 at 10:54 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mosinfan (anonymous) says...
Archdude, it is abundantly clear to anyone reading what your writing (except you) that you are suggesting that ONLY you decide what is a legitimate source.
Your statements reveal an arrogance and pridefullness that you accuse the far right of. Only difference is you think since you claim the high and mighty moderate position (middle) that your take is superior and thus you are entitled to decide what sources are legit or not. That is the problem that I see with most liberals (and yes some on the right are guilty of this too) but especially the so called moderates. They tend to claim the morally superior position because they lay claim that they are the "open minded ones" or they are the only ones "willling to look at both sides".
Has if ever occured to you that those of us that might tend to take a stand one way or the other tend to do so because we thought it out and researched it and came to a conclusion that is different from yours?
January 10, 2008 at 11:05 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
tbo (anonymous) says...
Jane -- As a matter of public record, our invasion of Iraq had nothing to do with terrorism or 9/11. Bush & Cheney have stated it many times. We went in under the pretense that they were violating UN doctrine, but mainly because they posed an imminent threat to the U.S. because of weapons of mass destruction. Al Qaeda was not in Iraq, and had no tied to the Iraqi government before the invasion.
CoreyC -- Ron Paul is 100% against illegal immigration, and takes as hard a stance against amnesty as any other GOP candidate. From his "issues" page:
"The talk must stop. We must secure our borders now. A nation without secure borders is no nation at all. It makes no sense to fight terrorists abroad when our own front door is left unlocked. This is my six point plan:
Physically secure our borders and coastlines. We must do whatever it takes to control entry into our country before we undertake complicated immigration reform proposals.
Enforce visa rules. Immigration officials must track visa holders and deport anyone who overstays their visa or otherwise violates U.S. law. This is especially important when we recall that a number of 9/11 terrorists had expired visas.
No amnesty. Estimates suggest that 10 to 20 million people are in our country illegally. That's a lot of people to reward for breaking our laws.
No welfare for illegal aliens. Americans have welcomed immigrants who seek opportunity, work hard, and play by the rules. But taxpayers should not pay for illegal immigrants who use hospitals, clinics, schools, roads, and social services.
End birthright citizenship. As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be citizens, the incentive to enter the U.S. illegally will remain strong.
Pass true immigration reform. The current system is incoherent and unfair. But current reform proposals would allow up to 60 million more immigrants into our country, according to the Heritage Foundation. This is insanity. Legal immigrants from all countries should face the same rules and waiting periods."
http://www.ronpaul2008.com/issues/bor...
Get the facts straight!
January 10, 2008 at 11:07 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mosinfan (anonymous) says...
Archdude, you posted that you "never concluded anything on Augustine's Just War yesterday..."
Just a question so I can better understand my "moderate" brethren. Do you guys ever come to any conlusions?
January 10, 2008 at 11:08 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mosinfan (anonymous) says...
CoreyC, I think I just heard the sound of a hammer hitting a nail on the head.
And they have already welcomed in the "new voters".
January 10, 2008 at 11:15 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
jaysin (anonymous) says...
Does anyone posting in here make any sense?
I have read that Obama and the rest of the Dems are soft on terrorism and in the next line, Obama is chastized for saying that the US should act unilaterally if needed in Pakistan? The naysayers cannot have it both ways. First you talk about Obama's allegiance to his alleged Muslim background and then you say, he doesn't quite understand the ramifications of his foreign policy stance against countries that harbor Islamic extremists?!
Oh and another thing, Do you really think that making English our official language will somehow have an affect on the immigration problem? Here are 2 things that will stop illegal immigration. Businesses need to stop hiring illegal immigrants and if a business is found guilty of this practice, they need to be fined. Once we remove one of the major appeals to crossing the border, illegals will think twice.
January 10, 2008 at 11:18 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
since1648 (anonymous) says...
Ron Paul is the only canidate who I feel can reverse the loss of our personal freedoms and save our country from the globalist.
Do you know vote rigging has been confirmed in NH and they have already confirmed Dr. Ron Paul was cheated out of many votes and a investigation is underway at present.The investigation began when Ron Paul voters called to complain they voted and the results showed 0 votes for Dr. Paul in their county.www.dailypaul.com
The Elite Globalist are trying to control who will be our next President by promoting those canidates they want.
Please consider Ron Paul and check his web site to see where he stands on the issues www.ronpaullibrary.com.
Do you now more military active and vets like myself endorse Dr. Paul then any other canidate ?
He can win,he has the support and the money to stay in the race.
January 10, 2008 at 11:57 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
ItsTimeToBeFree (anonymous) says...
RON PAUL IS GOING TO WIN THIS THING
"Ron Paul doesn't have a chance to win. You can't fight City Hall. Death and taxes." It's all a bunch of enemy propaganda rolling across our picket line. It's time for us to stand-up tall, and to let the establishment know that we're not going to let them cram us into their rat maze anymore. We will no longer submit to their agenda of dehumanization and disenfranchisement. I want freedom, and more of it--not tyranny, and that's what you should want too. It's up to each and everyone of us to turn-loose just some of the fear, because that is their most effective method of controlling us--make us feel pathetic and small so we'll, willingly, give-up our sovereignty, our liberty and our destiny. We have got to realize that we are being conditioned on a mass scale. Start challenging this corporate slave state that rules over us all. What a bunch of garbage--liberal Democrats, conservative Republicans. It's all a phony, poorly-staged, left-right paradigm designed to control you. It's two sides of the same coin--two management teams bidding for the CEO job of Slavery Incorporated. Ron Paul is going to win this thing. The American people are too good. We're not a bunch of underachievers. We're going to stand-up together and beat the odds. We are going to get fired-up and use our creativity, our energy, and our burning desire for freedom to show Slavery Incorporated that the dynamic human spirit of the Twenty-first Century refuses to submit.
January 10, 2008 at noon ( permalink | suggest removal )
ItsTimeToBeFree (anonymous) says...
HOPE FOR AMERICA: PRESIDENT RON PAUL
RonPaul2008.com
-- No more meddling in other country's political affairs
-- No more aggressive military actions overseas
-- No more torture prisons
-- No more pseudo-wars like the "War on Drugs"
-- No more IRS and unconstitutional income taxes
-- No more Federal Reserve (the group of private banks which owns our government)
-- No more erosion of Social Security to pay for militarization
-- No more U.N. (one world government) participation
-- No more NAFTA, CAFTA, WTO or GATT (globalist trade cartels)
-- No more North American Union (loss of U.S. sovereignty)
-- No more federal gun control laws
-- No more illegal aliens pouring-in over our country's borders
-- No more illegal aliens allowed to roam freely in our streets
-- No more national ID cards (Real ID Act)
-- No more government invasion of your privacy
-- No more federal Laws which force you to take unwanted injections
-- No more federal Laws which are not authorized by The Constitution
-- No more federal erosion of State sovereignty
-- No more unlimited federal government
"Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human liberty; it is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves."
- William Pitt
"The means of defense against foreign danger historically have become the instruments of tyranny at home."
- James Madison
"Wars are poor chisels for carving-out peaceful tomorrows."
- Martin Luther King Jr.
January 10, 2008 at 12:01 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
ItsTimeToBeFree (anonymous) says...
I JOINED THE RON PAUL REVOLUTION
Too many times the political system produces candidates who are "typical." Today, we have a man running for office who is not simply the lesser of two evils, but is instead the absolute right choice. Ron Paul's consistency, clear articulation, solid leadership, sound financial perspective, faithfulness to God and to The Constitution are what we need in our next President. If Congress would have listened to Ron Paul, we wouldn't have lost nearly 4,000 soldiers, spent over $1 trillion, and gotten bogged down in an endless civil war from which there can be no equitable extraction. As one who is fed up with the globalist goons that dominate the two major parties, I have joined the Ron Paul Revolution and vow to fight for the rest of my life for the cause of freedom in this country. This means I will never again support a business-as-usual, millionaires-club, globalist toady from either party ever again! I will only support candidates who are committed to restoring The Constitution.
January 10, 2008 at 12:07 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mosinfan (anonymous) says...
Archdude,
I concur with your last re:mosinfan post.
January 10, 2008 at 12:09 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
horatio (anonymous) says...
Well, from what I see above, Ron Paul is right about one thing: you have to take away the incentives for illegal immigration: welfare, free education, and free medical care (actually, not free, but paid for by you and me). You won't be able to completely stop the negative effects of illegal immigration unless you're willing to take those things away. Neither Thompson, Huckabee, and certainly not Rudy McRomney, are willing to do that.
January 10, 2008 at 12:10 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
ItsTimeToBeFree (anonymous) says...
THIS COUNTRY NEEDS DRASTIC CHANGE
Ron Paul represents the sort of drastic change this country is in desperate need of. We have fallen so far from the vision our Founding Founders had for this country, even Paul may not be able to keep us from falling completely over the cliff. I share his belief that our Founders would be ashamed of what our nation has become. Ron Paul's election will have to serve as a mandate to our Congress that if they don't cooperate, we'll boot them out of office, and find politicians who will. That said. Unlike the other candidates, and I do mean ALL of them. Ron Paul is someone you can trust to do what he says he'll do. Rather than flip-flopping as the winds of the moment blow, or not fully disclosing where he stands on the issues, as most politicians do, Ron Paul makes his positions very clear, and he never deviates from those positions, ever. His 800 published articles, five books and 20 year congressional voting record is proof of that fact. They don't call him "Dr. No" for no reason. This is one of the many reasons so many people like myself support him. Ron Paul is a man of real substance and real integrity--A REAL AMERICAN--just the kind of President this country needs. RonPaulLibrary.org RonPaul2008.com
January 10, 2008 at 12:11 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
ItsTimeToBeFree (anonymous) says...
MORE TROOPS AND VETERANS SUPPORT RON PAUL
On Veteran's Day, Republican presidential candidate Ron Paul today addressed a crowd of over 5,000 enthusiastic veterans and supporters in Philadelphia. The Veteran's Day weekend rally took place at Independence Mall. Thousands of veterans and their friends and families heard country music superstar Rockie Lynne open the event for the Texas congressman. John Holland, the founder of a leading advocacy organization for troops, veterans, and POW/MIAs, delivered an enthusiastic endorsement of Congressman Paul, before the congressman addressed the crowd. The rally coincided with the launch of the Veterans for Paul Coalition, a group composed entirely of American war veterans. "Dr. Paul's support among veterans is extremely high," said Paul campaign spokesman Joe Seehusen. "These great patriots who have fought for our country know that only Dr. Paul's foreign policy of peace and secure borders can guarantee true national security, and they want him fighting for our country's freedom." Congressman Paul was himself a Captain in the Air Force who served as a flight surgeon during the "totally unnecessary and illegal" Vietnam war. He receives more campaign contributions from former and active military and military affiliates than any other 2008 presidential candidate.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=KzlqKoON3EM
January 10, 2008 at 12:14 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mountain (anonymous) says...
The press has told you that to vote for McCain and that is who you will vote for because you are a bunch of sheep. I have lived in S.C. all my life and they are right the (media) we do need health care to replace all the missing backbones in this state. We need education reform because no one can read. If they could read and would read the Constitution then their would only be one person they could vote for that is Ron Paul.
January 10, 2008 at 12:16 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
ItsTimeToBeFree (anonymous) says...
YOU'RE A FROG IN A POT
My fellow Americans need to open their eyes to the fact that our Republic, along with The Constitution upon which it was founded, is being flushed-down the toilet by our nations' bought and paid for politicians and media. While the Oligarchs warn and incite fear in the sheeple about the prospect of terrorism, they at the same time leave our borders wide open, and then conduct illegal wars overseas that do nothing but incite the terrorism which their Orwellian Laws like the Patriot Act and the John Warner Defense Authorization Act pretend to protect us from. Wake up America! It's not about protecting you from terrorism, or Global Warming, or any of that other fear-mongering garbage the sold-out, mainstream media feeds you 24/7. It's about feeding the bankers and the military industrial complex, and facilitating the global elite's ability to ratchet-up their control over the American people, placing us into a total control grid where they can surveille, track and control everywhere we go and everything we do. It's the groundwork for tyranny. It's the New World Order plan of Bush, Clinton, Edwards, McCain, Giuliani, et. al., being executed quite beautifully. You're a frog in a pot: In order to cook a frog, you don't throw him into a pot of boiling water. If you do, he'll resist and jump-out. What you do instead is, you turn the heat-up REAL SLOW, and by the time the water is boiling, he won't be able to jump out anymore, because it's too late--he's already doomed.
January 10, 2008 at 12:21 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
ItsTimeToBeFree (anonymous) says...
TO APATHETIC AMERICANS
Voter disenfranchisement and apathy infects the heart of our Republic. Get off your couch, put your remote control down, and become active in your nation's political process. The pathetically few people that do vote in this country, a.k.a., "the ruling class", who currently get to decide under what kind of conditions (and Laws) you and your family will live, are certainly involved. I can assure you of that. In fact, the ruling class would be much happier if you would just continue to stay home and watch TV in your pleasantly distracted and brainwashed stupor. That way they can continue to elect their political whores to office, and continue to maintain their grip on 100% of the political power they currently own in this country. If you voted (God Forbid), it would cancel-out their vote, and they would lose control. They can't have that. Now can they? If you don't vote, my friends, you're nothing but an unwashed "Pleb" to those that do, and the ruling class should rightfully consider themselves superior to you in every way. They do, after all, have all the power, while you have none. If you're too apathetic and powerless to do anything for yourself more time-consuming than driving down to Mickey D's to buy a milk shake in order to seize control of your life, and your country's destiny, then perhaps you deserve to be ruled over like the "Pleb" that you then are. The time to act is now. The time for political revolution has come. The time for Ron Paul is NOW!
January 10, 2008 at 12:22 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
ItsTimeToBeFree (anonymous) says...
DR. PAUL OFFERS HOPE FOR REAL CHANGE
I support Ron Paul's candidacy because he is the only candidate for president in 2008 who is both anti-war and anti-welfare. Moreover, he advocates radical and desperately needed reforms of the IRS and the Federal Reserve. He appears to be that rarest of all politicians: one who actually has principles and acts in accordance with those principles. I think of Ron Paul as a modern-day Socrates. Like Socrates, Dr. Paul remains true to his principles by not being afraid to say things that are unpopular. He's the only candidate who is not afraid to say "the Emperor wears no clothes." His consistency, forthrightness, and courage in the face of what have been brutal onslaughts has brought him worldwide admiration and respect. Only Paul offers hope for real change in America change; all other candidates promise nothing but the status quo and to take America further down the road of fascism, big government, high taxes, declining dollar, feudalism and an even more bloated bureaucracy.
January 10, 2008 at 12:24 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mosinfan (anonymous) says...
ItsTimeToBeFree,
No offense intended. I will tell you that I know quite a few vets and am a vet myself. None that I know of are supporting Ron Paul for the reason that it does not appear that he understands National Security. I know he served honorably in the USAF. I will say that his credentials as far as his understanding of the United States Constitution, the role of the federal government vs the states (9th & 10th Amendments), and his views on the IRS and taxes are second to none in my view. But when it comes to the current threat, I'm just not convinced he "gets it".
January 10, 2008 at 12:37 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
SCdeacinNYC (anonymous) says...
OK so I see the board has been hijacked by Ron Paul supporters. Great. Well, good luck with that during the primaries. Let me start of by saying I hate labels, especially political ones, because they are grossly over-simplifeid. BUT, Ron Paul is a libertarian NOT a Republican. Which means he will never win a Republican primary. Sure, he is against illegal immigration "high taxes" bureacracy all of that sounds good for "typical" Repubs. But, he isn't like many of your fellow conservatives (I even hate using conservative/liberal labels, its so over-simplistic). He also against the War on Drugs and against some of the faith-based federal program initiated by the last administration. Defintiely against a constitutional amendment for gay marriage. And while it seems like a good number of people on this board are to that extreme, I think the reality is that most South Carolinians and certainly most Americans are NOT.
Though I think he campaign will definitely be fruitless he serves to keep the lead candidates "honest" by bringing issues out in debates and on the campaign train that would not previously be on the table. Much like his Democrat counterpart Kucinich. Both are considered too "extreme" for most American voters and have a slim chance of actual success, but I think that the media is doing a disservice to us all by trying to prevent their participation in certain debates.
January 10, 2008 at 12:39 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
SCdeacinNYC (anonymous) says...
EARLY, what racial propaganda are you referring to?
January 10, 2008 at 12:41 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
1980Elephant (anonymous) says...
I am not sure most Ron Paul supporters understand what he is for/against. It is more a vote of rebellion against our current system (which is fine). Unfortunately it makes them unable to argue his ideas succesfully.
So in a few days South Carolina will go the polls and vote for whome they belive should be the next president. As a conservative there are a few issues that we should be addressing:
1). Which candidate will stand up to a House/Senate controlled by Democrats (more than likely)?
2). Which candidate has a strong consistent conservative foundation on which he would govern from?
3). Which candidate will always place America first in his decisions?
4). Which candidate understands what the proper role of the federal government is?
Whether we talk about immigration, social issues, defense, or the economy, it all boils down to the same thing. We have to elect someone that is a conservative not by convenience, but by conviction. The only candidate that can effectively lead this great country is Fred Thompson.
The other candidates have some great qualities, but I feel lack true convictions. True conservative principles would have kept Mike Huckabee from dramatically raising taxes in Arkansas and would have kept him from offering tuition benefits to illegal immigrants. True conservative principles would have forbidden John McCain to promote amnesty through the McCain-Kennedy Immigration bill and would have encouraged him to vote for the current Bush tax cuts. True conservative principles would have kept Mitt Romney from being elected governor in one of the most liberal states in the union.
As conservatives we cannot focus on one pet issue but look to the overall philosophy of conservatism. With the election just a few days away I strongly encourage you to visit www.Fred08.com and see as I have the conviction that Fred has about conservative principles. I know that when an issue comes up that is currently not being discussed Fred will come down on the conservative side everytime.
Support Fred Thompson for President
www.Fred08.com
January 10, 2008 at 12:44 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
crankyyankee (anonymous) says...
I like Ron Paul it's some of his supporters that scare the #$%^ out of me!
January 10, 2008 at 12:45 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
ItsTimeToBeFree (anonymous) says...
SPAM? I NEVER TOUCH THE STUFF
I challenge you to present your candidate's competing ideas, or does your candidate even have any ideas? You probably don't even know where your candidate stands on the most important issues facing our country. In fact, you probably don't even vote. Sadly, modern elections have become little more than beauty contests rather than contests of ideas, which is what they should be. To those of you who don't like my posts, and refer to them as "spam": If you are turned-off by free speech and the communication of political ideas during the middle of a presidential election season, I'm totally glad you are. You're probably the same sort of fascist pig who tries to define waterboarding as an "enhanced interrogation technique," rather than the inhumane sort of torture that it most surely is. You can define my political free speech as "spam," and you can define torture as an "enhanced interrogation technique," but that does not make it so. Finally, rather than flip-flopping as the winds of the moment blow, or not fully disclosing where he stands on the issues, as most candidates do, Ron Paul makes his positions very clear, and he never deviates from those positions, ever. His 800 published articles, five books and 20 year congressional voting record is proof of that fact. This is one of the many reasons so many people like myself support him. He, unlike your candidate, is a man of real substance and real integrity.
January 10, 2008 at 12:48 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
whetsell (anonymous) says...
Bill Clinton did not support the military as president. The pay raises were the lowest in 30 plus years, political hacks were promoted to general and admiral, and our nations fighting forces were reduced to a paper shell of themselves. Mrs. Clinton reportedly has an even lower opinion of the military, and would inflict even more damage on the military. I urge you to keep this in mind when voting.
January 10, 2008 at 12:52 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
horatio (anonymous) says...
TO: Mr. Itstimetobefree --
Hey, it appears Mr. Paul agrees with me on many issues, but it doesn't help your candidate for you to try to hijack the board. It turns many of us who are on the fence off.
BTW, my main objection to Paul is that he's not committed to working to recapture the party for the conservatives that used to have a home there. But since no one else is voicing the virtues of traditional Republican values, I am considering voting for him if for no other reason than to wake the rest of them up.
January 10, 2008 at 12:55 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
ItsTimeToBeFree (anonymous) says...
DEMOCRATS HOODWINKED BY HILLARY
Sadly, even though Clinton voted for the war in Iraq, and a host of Laws aimed at removing civil liberties; and our country's sovereignty, Democrats are so blinded by her cult of personality that I predict they will overwhelmingly vote to put her crime family back into office. While I've made some progress in educating Liberals as to the phony staged consensus of the left-right paradigm, the fact remains that a majority of Democrats still see the White House as some kind of political Super Bowl, where the success of their "team" is the be all and end all - to the expense of America as a whole. The Punch and Judy show theater that was the "troop surge" debate in the Senate characterizes Hillary's role in hoodwinking Americans perfectly. The debate is framed as not whether the U.S. should get out of the Middle-East altogether, but the relative minutia of whether to feed thousands of more troops into the meat grinder or not. A Clinton presidency will mean more war, more dead Americans, and a further desecration of the tattered shreds of what's left of our Constitution. Clinton is the ultimate global elitist and represents the Democrats supposed base: the poor and downtrodden, about as much as Lindsay Lohan represents grace and dignity. I'm sure she informed the likes of David Rockefeller and Queen Beatrix as to her presidential aspirations during her last visit to attend the Bilderberger conference. Vote for a REAL AMERICAN. Vote for Ron Paul.
January 10, 2008 at 12:58 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
ItsTimeToBeFree (anonymous) says...
HIGHLY RECOMMENDED VIDEO
You should check-out a fast-paced, 64-minute documentary called "We" which covers the world politics of power, war, corporations, deception and exploitation. It visualizes the words of the world-renowned author, Arundhati Roy, specifically her famous "Come September" speech, where she spoke on such things as the war on terror, corporate globalization, justice and growing civil unrest in the world. It's witty, moving, alarming and quite a lesson in modern history. We is produced in the style of a continuous music video. The music and rich visual products used sets the pace and serves as wonderful backdrop for the words of Ms. Roy and the images of the world we live all in today. We is a completely free documentary, created and released anonymously on the Internet. WeRoy.org
January 10, 2008 at 12:58 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mountain (anonymous) says...
Mosinfan, If we don't get rid of big government liberals and big government conservatives, i.e. Bush/McCain, then there will not be any country left to defend.
January 10, 2008 at 1:15 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
ItsTimeToBeFree (anonymous) says...
TO CoreyC:
RON PAUL KNOWS HOW TO STOP ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION
The talk must stop. We must secure our borders now. A nation without secure borders is no nation at all. It makes no sense to fight terrorists abroad when our own front door is left unlocked. Ron Paul has a plan: (1.) Physically secure our borders and coastlines. We must do whatever it takes to control entry into our country before we undertake complicated immigration reform proposals. (2.) Enforce Visa rules. Immigration officials must track Visa holders and deport anyone who overstays their Visa or otherwise violates U.S. Law. This is especially important when we recall that a number of 9/11 terrorists had expired Visas. (3.) No amnesty. Estimates suggest that 10 to 20 million people are in our country illegally. That's a lot of people to reward for breaking our Laws. (4.) No welfare for illegal aliens. Americans have welcomed immigrants who seek opportunity, work hard, and play by the rules, but taxpayers should not pay for illegal immigrants who use hospitals, clinics, schools, roads, and social services. (5.) End birthright citizenship. As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be citizens, the incentive to enter the U.S. illegally will remain strong. (6.) Pass true immigration reform. The current system, and those most other candidates propose, is incoherent and unfair, and would allow up to 60 million more immigrants into our country. (7.) Arrest as many illegal immigrants as possible and send them back home where they can pursue U.S. residency or work permits legally.
January 10, 2008 at 1:19 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mosinfan (anonymous) says...
mountain,
I concur with the "big government" slam wholeheartedly. I will admit I am a hardcore conservative but not the kind that we have today that are not holding to the principles of "smaller govt is better".
January 10, 2008 at 1:30 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
since1648 (anonymous) says...
It does seem a lot of over zealous Paul fans are on this board today.I am a Paul fan and I think a lot of us feel if another "Business as Usual"canidate gets into office we are in grave danger of loosing our sovereignty.
As far as National Security is concerned Ron Paul wants to bring our troops home and do just that Protect Our country.What good does it do to have our troops overseas while here at home our borders are wide open and many ME's have been caught
coming across our southern border.
Our Border Patrol Guards are screaming for help to stop the hemmorage on our Border and to protect them from increased drug and human traffickers attacks.Ron Paul will do that.
Sorry for the "over load" of Paul supporters.I am a new supporter who felt hopeless to stop what is happening to the country I love & support before I started reading about Dr. Paul and was anxious to share it with my fellow SC voters. :)
I hope you will give him a chance as he has the best and most consistant record of all those running for President.
January 10, 2008 at 4:59 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
SCDem (anonymous) says...
Howe anyone could possibly consider voting Republican after that party's lockstep backing of an administration lied this nation into an unjustified and immoral attack on a nation that had not and could not attack us is beyond me.
I may not always vote Democratic, but I can tell you I will never, ever vote Republican after what we've seen from them for the last eight years.
I believe in a fair trial for bush, cheney, rummy, condi, and the whole criminal gang.
January 10, 2008 at 8:49 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
willtex (anonymous) says...
I don't care who you vote for, no one but ourselves can solve the illegal immigrant situation.It's all about the
mighty dinero. American business people are hiring these people at sub standard wages so their profit margins soar.
It's all about greed, same as our politicians and lawyers,
let's make money.Greed, greed , greed, driving factor of our nation. If we don't hire them, they won't keep coming.
January 10, 2008 at 9:24 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
sakimasg (anonymous) says...
The word change was first coined by the present Mayor of Newark New Jersey Cory Booker who was backed by Orphan Winfrey and Alicia Keyes. The second time Mr. Mayor Corey Booker ran for office he won. I have the upmost respect for Mayor Booker and Senator Barrack Obama, who is now supported by the buffy, but Newark New Jersey has not changed one bit, it has been bargained. Today January the 10th 2008 25 gang members where in arrested in Newark mostly all the other cities in Essex County New Jersey took this action at lease a year ago. Birds of a feather flock together America can not be bargained that means who we are, what we have accomplished will not give way to the lesser.
Mr., Senator Obama has come up and is due respect but looks to ones that have made it instead of those who are struggling to make it.
Martin Luther King Jr.
"And if America is to be a great nation this must become true. So let freedom ring from the prodigious hilltops of New Hampshire. Let freedom ring from the mighty mountains of New York. Let freedom ring from the heightening Alleghenies of Pennsylvania!"
Do People repay favors?
January 10, 2008 at 10:20 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Hiltina (anonymous) says...
What was that spectacle last night in Myrtle Beach? A Whites Only Rally, a combination of an Up With People Concert and Hee Haw?
The Republican vision of the world: Thousands of black and brown US soldiers giving their lives for keeping their "Christian Schools" safe. Upholding nineteenth century sexist attitudes about the status of women in society, and enough Viagra to go around to keep all their Washington prostitutes happy. Interesting how the only Republican they talked about was the B-list actor Ronald Reagan. Not one word about their fearless leader George Bush. Remember him? They guy who cut the plastic turkey in Iraq for the Thanksgiving photo op. Oh yes, Mr. MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!
January 11, 2008 at 7:04 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
now_ready1 (anonymous) says...
And now ladies and gentlemen, a blast from the past - take it away 1969
http://patriotfiles.org/Pledge.htm
January 11, 2008 at 7:22 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
sakimasg (anonymous) says...
It was gracious and inclusive of President Clinton to speak on several African America radio station. I agree also that everyone in America thinks and feels that Senator Obama is a capable Presidential Candidate.
Senator Obama is a very likable person, he is intelligent, educated, backed by generous donors and does not seem to have been injured by racism which can come from any side or both sides of the coin.
In these days of high stake politics everyone has opinions, concerns, perception from their point of view and facts about the candidates. In considering all this information the spiritual phrase Let Go and Let God continues to flash in my mind.
January 11, 2008 at 9:21 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
sakimasg (anonymous) says...
All this racism stuff is ridiculous. The African American community can take to the bank that the Clintons are genuine real Constitutional Americans that understand the difference between an economical statistic and a human statistic. You will never be able to convince us who have bared witness of that, that they are playing the race card.
Americans are the recipients of the efforts, accomplishments, and the determination of John Kennedy and Martin Luther King. The point here is inclusions of all Americans no matter of which way they came that have contributed to America's greatness.
The concern here is, have been given the opportunity what will intelligence, education and likeability do with the opportunity to govern America.
It is not wrong to like yourself. It is not wrong to know you're self. Age and experience not only can distinguish by direction the way you came but the way you will go.
There are some regardless of what is said or done and regardless of what they have done; good or bad are going to choose their own because of race. The present talk tells me that this is Rowe 102. A strategy that has divided the African Americans community since our existence.
We are what we are now, and most of us actually know what we were and all of us know that all Americans have come a long way.
Explaining the agenda of party to resolve our racial problems is not racism. The idea of the melting pot was embraced By Ronald Reagan. Whether you want to believe it or not.
Republicans and Democrats have always disagreed. Racism is a part of American life.
The concern is only this which one of these candidates can really continue the efforts of Martin Luther king and John Fitzgerald Kennedy and claim that they are fair and concern about all Americans.
We have been dying for America's freedom since its establishment, White people and Black people united and although racism still exist we will continue to fight for the freedom and equality of Americans until fairness to citizens eliminates racism.
Racism, I believe that Tucker is attacked to Mrs. Michelle Obama. What does my belief say about racism?
January 14, 2008 at 7:48 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
sakimasg (anonymous) says...
Comparatively speaking! It is a national phenomenon and it goes beyond any boundaries that today's children playfully try to shock grown folks. It is disrespectful especially when the word respect is used, by tone, in a conversation that is disrespectful not by subject but by the way the subject in a conversation is toned especially when a person is speaking to or with an institution. How could anyone say that the graciousness that former President Clinton has shown that he and his family are not deeply committed from their hearts to the inclusion into American society of all the American People? President Clinton has also been confronted by the ugly face of racism. When he opened an office in Harlem some Negroes protested or should I have said the new Negro came out to protest..
I would not bet dime on a political poll in some instances for several reasons.
January 15, 2008 at 8:49 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
sakimasg (anonymous) says...
In a county based on law I welcome although it dilutes our rights my uncle looking over my shoulder in a time of war and for us this is a constant (XYZ). Although, I write from my emotions, a thoughtful person that can think will get as much out them as I. This is not politics this about our Country.
January 17, 2008 at 1:23 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
sakimasg (anonymous) says...
Another example of the governments political correctness being political wrong.
The standard had been set and allowing casino employee's to vote at the casino, their work place, is unfair to the rest of population. Speaking of this circumstance only! On a special day the convince should have been accommodated by the casinos. The Casinos provide buses for their patrons why not organize and provide transportation to the voting site for their employee's.
Adding insult to the incorrectness insult tries to make it seem that someone was trying to prevent the casino workers from voting. America has to have one standard of inclusion for all of its people to be the United States of America. This so-called political correctness does not right any wrong whereas anyway there was not a wrong done but only serves as another sign of division. It simple people! Why keep on letting America go astray if getting it right.
January 19, 2008 at 9:30 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
sakimasg (anonymous) says...
Republican good ideas just to mention a few!
The Contract with America, Amnesty for illegal aliens, "Tear down that Wall Mister".
Well Folks, some of the contracts with America entailments came true during The Clinton Administration, but it seems that Republicans do not practice what they preach because none of its entailment came true under the present Administration, oh I forgot Medicare Reform that has seniors having to hire an attorney to explain a government obligation that has been outsourced. Wrong! Maybe I need an attorney to explain those company names to me. Its seems sort of biblical to me that we now have to build walls to maintain our freedom, security, and future sovereignty. There was anger at the Clinton Administration because of Welfare reform. The repercussion and results of some of those Republican good ideas are causing some serious problems for Americans. 1982-2008
January 19, 2008 at 11:39 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
sakimasg (anonymous) says...
In my opinion former President Ronald Reagan stopped and reversed the civil rights movement that if administered as it was conceived to correct a flaw in the way America interpreted its Constitution, than we would not be having the problems and the uncertainties that we are having today. And if the 70th had continued the American public would be embracing their freedom instead of fearing external polarization which is always used against us.
A body motion tells the truth and communicates the truth of the depth of our experiences. If Mr. Obama had said to the American people that I am not with the Republican agenda AND I can lead this country and I can be become the next American President and I am not using the fact that I am a Black Man that is not a decedent that is up from slavery but I am the son of an immigrant that lived in poverty and understands what poverty creates
than I would vote for him.
Black people in Africa sold Black people to White People because we were a product.
What did I just say if Barrack Obama was Jesse Jackson although I knew he would lose I still would vote for him it really would meant something! Why should that be important to African Americans? Think about it for a minute and consider your self.
What did just say! Something as intimate as a nipple has to be strongly considered. America is very more complex place then a viewer will ever perceive.
January 23, 2008 at 10:56 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Postandcourier.com is pleased to offer readers the enhanced ability to comment on stories. We expect our readers to engage in lively, yet civil discourse. Postandcourier.com does not edit user submitted statements and we cannot promise that readers will not occasionally find offensive or inaccurate comments posted in the comments area. Responsibility for the statements posted lies with the person submitting the comment, not postandcourier.com. If you find a comment that is objectionable, please click "report abuse" and we will review it for possible removal. Please be reminded, however, that in accordance with our Terms of Use and federal law, we are under no obligation to remove any third party comments posted on our website.
Users can now build user-to-user connections, follow friends' recent posts, add an avatar that fits their personality, and more. If you have posted here before you'll need to sign up again, or if you've never posted before, start now by signing up!
Full terms and conditions can be read here.
Thank you for your interest in this story. The comment thread for this article has been closed.
- Most Commented
- Most Emailed
- S.C. losing port traffic to other states
- Out with old ...
- Cart gives Buddy new lease on life
- Water — 'The smell is gone'
- New drug may hold promise for lupus sufferers
- Schools plan to update visitor-security system
- GenPhar site 'red-tagged'
- Off campus
- Man, 17, killed in motorcycle wreck
- Historic manor house used by Girl Scouts is among buildings that might be torn down to make way for future
