Is double voting a problem?
No one's sure, but officials might try to find out
By Robert Behre
As Charleston County's Board of Elections and Voter Registration recently discussed the Nov. 4 election, board member June Smith noted the heavy turnout of college voters and observed, "They could just as easily have voted here and voted absentee in their own state."
She's right, election officials say, but it's unclear how many, if any, did vote twice.
As states begin analyzing what changes would improve the voting process the next time around, they will decide if such duplicate voting is worthy of their attention.
Previous Story
Registration rate for ages 18-24 double that of other age groups in S.C., published 10/12/08
State Election Commission public information officer Chris Whitmire said he hasn't seen any recent analysis about duplicate voting, but two years ago, the state compared its voter registration rolls with those of Kentucky and Tennessee. It discovered about 14,000 South Carolina voters also were registered in one of those two states.
Of those, the state struck 5,659 from its rolls because their other registration appeared to be more current. It also sent a letter to them, and a handful wrote back that they needed to remain registered here, Whitmire said.
Kentucky later examined voter turnouts and discovered no one had voted there and in another state, according to Kentucky Secretary of State Trey Grayson's office.
"Just because we have not seen this type of fraud in previous elections does not mean we should rest on our laurels," Grayson said at the time. "We will be looking for other voter fraud prevention techniques, as well as other states with which we can compare data."
This week, Grayson said Kentucky would continue to compare its most recent list of voters with lists from neighboring states, particularly the presidential battleground states of Ohio and Indiana.
Grayson said he became interested in the duplicate voting issue a few years ago after his parents offhandedly suggested that they could vote for him. This was after they moved from Kentucky to South Carolina.
"I said, 'Wait a minute. You're a South Carolina resident. You can't vote for me. It would look really bad,'" he said. "I saw that they could have, if they wanted to, voted and probably would have gotten away with it."
Even though Kentucky didn't find any case of duplicate voting, Grayson said it's still a good idea to check with other states because dead weight on the voting rolls creates a potential for fraud and because both campaigns and states want the lists as accurate as possible.
That no duplicate voting was uncovered is not necessarily surprising.
A national 2007 study of election fraud done by the Brennan Center for Justice at the New York University School of Law concluded that double voting is rare.
"The scarcity (of double voting) is expected, given the severity of the penalty (criminal prosecution) and the meager nature of the payoff (one incremental vote)," its report, titled "The Truth About Voter Fraud," said.
Grayson said some in Congress are asking if the federal government should help out.
"Some people are asking the question should we go to a national system?" he said. "We're probably in the 'Is there a problem stage?' and it may be that there's not a solution to this."
Whitmire said South Carolina has considered joining with Georgia and North Carolina to compare registration lists and voter turnout, but the idea never got beyond the discussion stage.
In Georgia's case, attorneys advised the state not to participate because of a pending lawsuit involving Social Security numbers.
"The voter registration system is not Fort Knox," Whitmire said. "Someone who wants to commit voter fraud could probably do it."
"Some people may feel in their mind they should be allowed to vote in more than one place," he added. "If there is a risk for being caught and prosecuted for that crime, you would weigh that against casting one vote in another state for president. Is it worth the risk? I would say no. I hope most people would think the same way."
Reach Robert Behre at 937-5771 or at rbehre@postandcourier.com.
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carolinadude (anonymous) says...
The electoral college vote is based upon the popular vote. For example in SC, the SC electors are bound by the popular vote in our state. And furthermore the electoral college is a constitutional provision protecting our nation from "mob rule". We must "preserve, protect and defend our constitution." Last year, McConnel and Harrell of the SC General Assembly called for a Constitutional Convention aka "con con".
Russian Roulette is a deadly game of risk. You put one bullet in a revolver, leaving five empty clambers, spin it, aim it at your head, and fire. The odds are very favorable; you have five chances out of six of surviving, and only one chance out of six of being dead.
Most people think that it is irrational to play such a risky game with your own life, Society calls it murder if you play it with anyone else's life. Many of us feel it would be just as irrational to play such a risky game with the U.S. Constitution - our most precious document and the fountainhead of our unparalleled American freedom, independence, and prosperity.
A call for a Federal Constitutional Convention (popularly called Con Con) means playing Russian Roulette with our Constitution. The chances are good, perhaps very good, that our Constitution would survive. But it isn't rational to take such a risk with something so important as our Constitution.
December 26, 2008 at 7:28 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
B_Fwank (anonymous) says...
Does it matter anymore?
Losing an election, or a country?
Herb London is the President of the Hudson Institute, a Professor Emeritus at NYU, and a former candidate for Governor of New York on the Conservative Party ticket. He took the results of November's election harder than we did, and wonders whether this country has undergone a profound change for the worse. Herb wrote this provocative essay for Power Line:
"The results are in and my candidate lost the presidency. Since I love this country, I wish the newly named President Barack Obama every success. But this was an election unlike any other. I don't think the Republicans merely lost an election, I believe many of us lost a country.
This was a land that once rewarded hard work and enterprise. A place where one's word was his bond. America was the land of opportunity. If you can't do it here, you cannot do it anywhere. We were a people to be envied, not only because we had the highest standard living, but because we had the greatest degree of stability.
Americans were notoriously optimistic because we counted on tomorrow being better than yesterday. We were an open people dependent on fair play and a free market bounded by a standard of virtue. With all the blemishes in our past and breaches in our own ethics, we were a model of civic rectitude. "Dems that gives, gets;" those who wish to bilk the system will be discovered and isolated.
There was a time not so long ago when people did not depend on government to bail them out of financial difficulty, a time when the nanny state bred apprehension, not affection. Now, it seems, in the new America almost everyone wants a free ride. The non-tax payer wants a rebate from the taxpayer. The poor man wants everything the rich man has and he wants the rich man to give it to him."
http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives...
December 26, 2008 at 8:22 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
sixcar (anonymous) says...
Mayor...Here's a novel concept for you to consider....how bout let's actually follow the constitution for a change, and end the popular vote for president?
The constitution clearly defines how the president and vice president is to be elected. Electing the president through the process of a "popular vote" by the people, was never intended to be a part of the process.
In fact, the latest Supreme Court opinion on the issue occurred after the 2000 presidential election (Bush v Gore). The supreme court upheld, once again mind you, that there is no constitutional right for the people to vote for president of the United States.
The founders of this country were brilliant in knowing the inherent dangers of mixing human emotion and misguided self-centered ideology with the political process.
Another fact-to-the-matter is the only constitutional right anyone has for popular voting, is with electing your congressman.
Imagine a republic where the political riff-raff is eliminated from Washington by actually doing something the constitution clearly mandates we do.
How bout actually "read" the constitution sometime! If people took the time to do that, we may not have some of the problems we face today.
December 26, 2008 at 8:40 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
dawhetsell (anonymous) says...
Its just another FRAUD by the goverment. No one will complain until they find out that they didn't get what the goverment promised. Then it will be too late because they will be SLAVES to a socialest goverment like China and Russia.
December 26, 2008 at 8:45 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
sixcar (anonymous) says...
B_FWank....very good post, thank you.
Frankly, citing many of the points in your post, I believe this country has reached the inevitable point-of-no-return.
In my opinion, at least 51% of the people in this country are ready to transition from a free republic to a benevolent dictatorship.
December 26, 2008 at 8:46 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
spengler (anonymous) says...
the 'election' was in reality a bloodless coup d'etat by the marxist/leninists; America as it was, is no more. We are all now subjects of a socialist oligarchy/beauracracy. Your so-called 'freedom' is an illusion as you will soon find out. What did Deep Throat tell the Wapo reporters? Follow the money. Follow ACORN. This was a coup d'tat many years in the planning with a flawless execution. William Ayers said millions would die in the coming revolution, those who would not accept re-education. The phony financial crisis will allow these statists to install a police state and then integration into a world government. THAT was the reason Obot gave the speech in Germany.
December 26, 2008 at 9:09 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
NativeSon (anonymous) says...
If, as has been said, we must preserve, protect and defend our constitution, how is it that barrack o'bama is headed for the white house?
December 26, 2008 at 9:16 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
firemike (anonymous) says...
The Electoral College is an out dated useless government machine. In 1787 I could understand the use for such a tool but that was pre-computers and such. If you go to the hospital would you like to be treated like people did in 1787? Then why would you let a voting system elect a president and a congress who directly effect the health care system. We need to go to a voting system where every vote counts. I know there are going to be people who read this post and say "there is not a good secure electronic voting system we can use yet". Well if we (United States) can build a computer system to handle our atomic missals we should be able to create a computer voting system. We should never listen the government, the media, or the elderly who says it cant be done. Sorry to ad the elderly but you would be surprised what they think about computers. My friend grandmother thinks her computer is a jerk who erases things on purpose just to make her mad.
December 26, 2008 at 9:45 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
wjhamilton3 (anonymous) says...
If people are so worried about double voting, why don't they run the suspect voters against the states they may have allegedly voted in elsewhere and prosecute anyone who gets caught? There are available systems for doing that. The reason nobody bothers is that over the years, few people actually vote twice and spending millions of dollars and thousands of hours to labor to catch them hasn't been regarded as important.
Where are the boiler rooms of Republicans checking all of this online if they are so worried about it? Sitting at home, watching football and awaiting the birth of the Bristol Palin baby.
We could have a uniform, secure nation wide voter registration system, keyed to social security numbers and verified citizenship data, perhaps even with a nationally validated photo ID. It would cost billions of dollars to implement, but would give us an exhaustive national database of where our adult population lives and votes. It would also enable better disaster preparedness, criminal law enforcement and census data collection.
Nobody knows for certain who lives in Charleston. There is no accurate list.
We don't have such a system for several reasons:
Conservatives don't want to spend the money.
We don't really want the government to know how many of us there or where we live.
People think it has something to do with "end times" and the "number of the beast."
In Europe most nations have such a system, in many case with fingerprinting, that people are required to update when they move.
Charleston could also have checked the registrations as they came in, so that people's older registrations in other states were canceled, but the county didn't have the staff, even though there were thirty days from the end of registration to election day.
The Republican's just want to bitch. They didn't want to do the work or pay the money. That is why they lost.
December 26, 2008 at 10:17 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
zekemire (anonymous) says...
Yep! Democrats support this fraud, and, many other to insure they can maintain power!
December 26, 2008 at 10:20 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
franksandbeans (anonymous) says...
how else do you think bo got elected? what about the millions from new york, new jersey, who migrate down here to "visit" relativces, them go back there to "visit" relatives, voting in each place?
December 26, 2008 at 10:48 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
wjhamilton3 (anonymous) says...
As I have said, Republicans could put together a volunteer system and start cross checking voting in the last election across the United States. Who voted and where is a matter of public record.
Of course 62% of Republicans approve of how Obama has been handling the transition, but there should still be a hard core of red meat base to do the work. It's not hard, just tedious and time consuming.
In the end, there will be only a handful, most of those will be determined to be bookkeeping errors, but after a few hundred thousand hours of work, you might put someone in jail.
There were dozens of people caught doing illegal voter suppression across the United States on November 4. The evidence was carefully collected and they are going to Federal Prison. In Florida, the Lawyer's Voting Rights Project I was working with caught a guy standing in the parking lot checking IDs and sending people home, telling them they might get arrested for attempting to vote for some imaginary irregularity. Four federal felonies were properly documented. Witnesses were identified and affidavits drawn. He'll get four to ten years and he will never vote in any federal election again.
I suppose he'll be the one "bending over."
December 26, 2008 at 11:07 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
geekboy (anonymous) says...
Please do not feed the pathetic troll.
December 26, 2008 at 11:17 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
yird (anonymous) says...
firemike;DO away with the electoral college, bring in mob rule?
wjhamilton3; Did you really pass a bar exam?
Posted by JimIslander on December 26, 2008 at 10:33 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Looks like you are the expert on all things Penis "johnnyholmes".
Isn't that your catagory of expertise Jimbo?
For information pertaining to successful voter fraud, contact mayor Richard Daley of Chicago, political birthplace of our genetically diversified president elect.
The homeless, incarcerated and deceased are all potential votes in the world of democrap politics.
December 26, 2008 at 11:25 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
froglegs (anonymous) says...
If the people who say they are Republicans would have reviewed their Candidates Platform and voted with out FOX News telling them who to vote for. They would have known there was another candidate on the Republican Ticket, that probably could have given Obama a run if he had the same support, that candidate was Ron Paul! Furthermore, all you so-called Republicans should have seen the writing on the wall when one of our Country's greatest war heroes chooses a "Soccer Mom" as his VP nominee. He was willing to put our country at risk just as a last ditch effort to win an election.
December 26, 2008 at 11:56 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Hwebster (anonymous) says...
Mayor writes:
"Don't blame anything on the Republicans or Democrats. It's not their fault. If any politician had any business savvy, they wouldn't be running for office."
Sums it up for me.
December 26, 2008 at 12:16 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
franksandbeans (anonymous) says...
JimIslander, you are obviously an a%% - since when have so many college students and dead people voted? There was a mass effort to get this inexperienced thug in.....illinios dead and others voted in record numbers and military votes weren't even counted.....BTW, Democrats had been in charge for over 40 years until the mid 90's, and the Republicans lost the majority only in the last election so it is the donkey party who has brought us to where we are, most recently, pelosi and reid. Heaven help us in the next 4 years as this inexperienced man is tested by the world.
December 26, 2008 at 1:17 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Chicago_Thug (anonymous) says...
We do not live in a Democracy for some very good reasons, some of which are stated below.
Rule by law: a republic
In the republican form of government, the power rests in a written constitution. wherein the powers of the government are limited so that the people retain the maximum amount of power themselves. In addition to limiting the power of government, care is also taken to limit the power of the people to restrict the rights of both the majority and the minority.
Our Republic was founded upon the principles of Liberty (the right to do whatever one wishes so long as those actions do not infringe upon the equal rights of others) and limited government, not democracy. In fact, seldom if ever will one see reference to democracy in the founding documents of our nation.
From the 1928 United States Army Training Manual, which defined democracy as:
A government of the masses. Authority is derived through mass meeting or any other form of direct expression. Results in mobocracy, attitude toward property is communistic - negating property rights.
Attitude toward law is that the will of the majority shall regulate, whether it be based on deliberation or governed by passion, prejudice, and impulse, without restraint or regard to consequence.
Result in demagogism, license, agitation, discontent, anarchy.
A democracy, according to this definition, is actually controlled by a demagogue, defined as: "A speaker who seeks to make capital of social discontent and gain political influence."
http://www.citizensforaconstitutional...
December 26, 2008 at 1:35 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Chicago_Thug (anonymous) says...
George Washington, in his farewell address to the American people as he was leaving the presidency, spoke about the amending of the Constitution:
If in the opinion of the people, the distribution or modification of the Constitutional power be in any particular wrong, let it be corrected by an amendment in the way in which the Constitutional designates. But let there be no change by usurpation, for though this, in one instance, may be the instrument of good, it is the customary weapon by which free governments are destroyed.
It was about the same time that a British professor named Alexander Fraser Tyler wrote: "A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can exist only until the voters discover they can vote themselves largess (defined as a liberal gift) out of the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidate promising the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that democracy always collapses over a loose fiscal policy, always to be followed by a dictatorship."
That is why we are a Republic.
This has been the case in past elections, however it has now come true; "...can exist only until the voters discover they can vote themselves largess (defined as a liberal gift) out of the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidate promising the most benefits from the public treasury,.."
December 26, 2008 at 1:38 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Chicago_Thug (anonymous) says...
James Madison who wrote: "In all cases where a majority are united by a common interest or passion, the rights of the minority are in danger!" Another was John Adams who wrote: "Unbridled passions produce the same effects, whether in a king, nobility, or a mob. The experience of all mankind has proved the prevalence of a disposition to use power wantonly. It is therefore as necessary to defend an individual against the majority (in a democracy) as against the king in a monarchy."
December 26, 2008 at 1:39 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
B_Fwank (anonymous) says...
December 26, 2008
The psychopathology of Bush hatred
By James Lewis
"...we can easily see an ancient anthropological drama: The crucifixion of the reigning king, along with the messianic glorification of a new one, who will surely rescue us from our media-driven despair. (Of course the new king will also grow weaker in time, in spite of his charismatic magic ...) This is the stuff of Shakespeare and Sophocles. George W. Bush's "head is bloody but unbowed," to quote the poem Invictus, ("undefeated') the Victorian answer to political witchhunts.
Whenever conservatives see yet another mob movement from the Left, we feel it is our obligation to stand in opposition. It is not unpatriotic to criticize the messiah of the moment -- though the Left will say so. It is our duty. We can do so with reason, with humor, and with clear thinking about the bad ideas the Left seems to carry around like a scratchy case of the fleas."
http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/1...
December 26, 2008 at 1:48 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Chicago_Thug (anonymous) says...
The worse that I have seen that Bush has done is to support the bailouts. Other than that, I for one am thankful that this nation has not been attacked from a terrorist organization since 9-11, thanks to President Bush's efforts, even with all the opposition of the democrats and their lemmings that despise him.
Obama will not pull us out of Iraq or the war on terror, because he will see the truth of what Bush has seen in intel briefs. Obama, is a socialist at heart, but in the end, he doesnt want to go down in history as the first president (black or white) that allowed terrorism to rise from weakness and attack this nation again. If he does, he and the democrats will be gone, 2010 for the dems and 2012 for him.
The election is over, Obama won, now lets see him take the lead and be a President we can all be proud of. If not, he will be just another Jimmy Carter or Bill Clinton. Weak and in the words of UBL a "paper tiger".
December 26, 2008 at 2 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
franksandbeans (anonymous) says...
JimIslander is obviously a liberal - they alone want those who disagree to sit down and shut up and not exercise their rights to free speech. They also criticize wars that have resulted in their freedoms to post their hatred in these forums. Since they also have no substance, they resort to name calling.
FYI, I'm very proud of South Carolina and our standings. Obviously, those to the north who also know so much more than we do agree with me -- that's why so many of them migrate here with their liberal know it all attitudes and infest our land.
Yird, congrats, you are obviously a thinker who gets it. last time I looked, it was obamanation that had the longstanding record of thugs, imprisoned public officials and rear end holes, as evidenced by their latest offering, the empty suit messiah, and their current gov.
December 26, 2008 at 2:55 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
yird (anonymous) says...
Thu; You could not be more accurate in your statements nor could the sheeple be more wrong.
If all students were required to read the Federalist Papers as well as some of the great "libertarian" writers of the 18th and 19th
century they may have had a more realistic grasp of politics and governments and we would not be in the perilous state we are today.
As things are today the ugliness of past history is treated as though it could never reoccur.
December 26, 2008 at 3:15 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
franksandbeans (anonymous) says...
OMG - Jimislander predicts cannibalism!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!
December 27, 2008 at 12:14 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
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