Dump would be more than just a landfill
Williamsburg plan points out S.C. role as waste importer
By Tony Bartelme
Every year, the businesses and 36,000 residents of rural Williamsburg County toss out about 45,000 tons of trash, enough to fill about 1,800 garbage trucks. And for years, much of this refuse has ended up in the county's landfill, a primitive pit with a history of environmental problems.
So when a North Carolina waste disposal company offered to build a new dump and pay for the closure of the old one, Stanley Pasley, the county supervisor, was all ears.
The Post and Courier
Even better, the company, MRR Southern, was willing to pay Williamsburg County $400,000 a year until the new landfill opened plus $2 to $2.50 for every ton of trash that came from outside the county.
In February, with the County Council's support, Pasley inked a 55-page agreement with MRR Southern to build the new dump.
But it would be no ordinary land-fill.
The deal called for a 500-acre operation capable of taking 1.8 million tons of garbage a year. That's 40 times the garbage residents in Williamsburg County typically toss out. Put another way, it's enough trash to fill the North Charleston Coliseum seven times a year. If built, the landfill would rival the largest one in the state.
When it comes to new landfill projects, Williamsburg County isn't alone. MRR Southern wants to build another huge trash landfill in Marlboro County, and other waste disposal giants have opened or are eyeing South Carolina for what critics call 'megadumps.'
Residents and conservation groups are forming coalitions to fight these projects, and state lawmakers are set next year to debate the amount of landfill space the state needs for its residents and the amount it should provide for people elsewhere, a debate that highlights South Carolina's growing role as a major importer of out-of-state trash.
'No megadump'
Last year, the state's municipal waste landfills took in 6.5 million tons of trash. That's about 3,300 pounds of garbage for every man, woman and child in South Carolina. It's also an increase of 10 percent from 2004's total of 5.9 million tons.
Biggest S.C. landfills
LEE COUNTY LANDFILL: Lee County, 1.5 million tons PALMETTO LANDFILL: Spartanburg County, 820,000 tons RICHLAND LANDFILL: Richland County, 799,000 tons OAKRIDGE LANDFILL: Dorchester County, 748,000 tons UNION LANDFILL: Union County, 484,139 tons ANDERSON REGIONAL LANDFILL: Anderson County, 344,232 tons THREE RIVERS: Aiken County, 269,210 tons HORRY COUNTY LANDFILL: Horry County, 245,257 tons HICKORY HILL: Jasper County, 235,296 tons BERKELEY COUNTY LANDFILL: Berkeley County, 232,545 tons
NOTE: Charleston County's Bees Ferry landfill disposed 125,318 tons, less than some other metro areas because the county's trash goes to an incinerator.
Source: DHEC
A sizeable chunk of the trash that went into the state's landfills, about 25 percent, came from out of state, mostly from North Carolina, New York and Massachusetts.
The state's largest landfill is in Lee County and is operated by Allied Waste Industries. Last year, it took in 1.5 million tons, 1 million tons from other states.
MRR Southern's plan for Williamsburg County has the potential to push Lee County's operation into second place. It also means big bucks for a county government already strapped for cash.
Despite the Williamsburg project's size, and even though council members talked about a large landfill in public sessions, few county residents seemed to know about it until late this summer.
As the council prepared to vote on the landfill's location in September, "a local paper got a hold of a map, and we realized that it would be right on top of us," said Tommy Stuckey, a farmer in the crossroads community of Nesmith.
As more people learned about the landfill's size and location, opposition grew. Critics began posting handmade "No Megadump" signs along roads. More than 200 people crowded into Nesmith Baptist Church for a forum that turned into an anti-dump rally. Two months ago, the County Council backed away from the deal, voting four to three to sever its relationship with MRR. But in a parliamentary twist, Pasley said the council needed a two-thirds majority.
That leaves the project in limbo.
Opponents fear it's just a matter of time before the county and MRR Southern push through another proposal.
Dan Moore, an executive with MRR Southern, said in an e-mail that his company plans to move forward "with passion! We have way too much invested in this project to think of walking away." He added that the company "is not the bad guy we have overwhelmingly been painted. We have simply lived up to the terms and conditions of a contractual agreement largely proposed and dictated by the county."
'Perfect place to exploit'
Williamsburg County is north of the Francis Marion National Forest and is bisected by the coffee-colored Black River. Its largest town is Kingstree, which has about 3,200 people. In 1970, the county earned the unwelcome distinction of being the poorest county in the continental 48 states. Today one of four residents still lives in poverty, census figures show.
"Williamsburg county has very little to offer the rest of the world, except for clean air, the best hunting and fishing on the East Coast," said Stuckey, who eventually formed a group called Coalition of Concerned Citizens of Williamsburg County. "You bring in a megadump, and it will destroy one of the very few assets we have to offer the rest of the world."
Stuckey and other opponents believe that waste companies are targeting sites in rural South Carolina.
"They picked a perfect place to exploit because there are no watchdog groups around here," said Nelson Chandler, a Charleston lawyer who grew up in Williamsburg County and hopes to retire there someday.
MRR Southern and the county settled on a timber tract called the "Big Woods" near Nesmith, a crossroads between Andrews and Hemingway.
In some respects, it was a curious site for a large facility of any kind.
The area around Nesmith is one of the least populated places in South Carolina. The nearest interstate highway is I-95, and it's more than 40 miles away. A CSX railroad track does run through the tract, and Stuckey and others speculate it might be used to haul in waste from other parts of the country.
"We have farm-to-market roads that are in horrible shape to begin with and couldn't stand truck traffic, and they haven't been clear about the rail," Stuckey said.
'Never tried to hide'
Moore of MRR Southern said that he was hesitant at first to discuss the company's plans. "There is a story to be told regarding this project but it does not appear to be one that sells many newspapers," he said in an e-mail.
The Post and Courier's on-line center for investigative reporting.Want to know how your favorite restaurant was rated by DHEC? Wonder about state employees' salaries?
Check out what our Watchdog reporters found.
Moore noted that Williamsburg County has a serious problem with its existing landfill near Salters. Indeed, the state has ordered Williamsburg County to clean it up and close it as soon as possible.
Last year, Williamsburg County began asking private companies for proposals to build a new landfill next to its Salters operation.
At least three waste disposal companies submitted proposals, including MRR Southern, Moore said.
In addition to paying the county $400,000 a year to operate the old landfill until it was closed, MRR agreed to handle Williamsburg's trash for free, a service that could carve about $1 million in expenses from the county's $16.7 million budget. The per-ton fees on out-of-state waste could add millions more to the budget.
"Yes, out-of-state waste was clear from the get-go," Moore said in an e-mail, describing the deal as "by far the most generous host package existing in the state, and possibly even in the country."
He said the company purposely chose "the most rural property possible for this facility, that is, a site that would have the least impact upon the citizens of the county." He said the company would first seek waste contracts in the Pee Dee region and then look for garbage in other areas. Waste would be delivered in trucks, but rail would be another possibility.
"It's not every day that a waste company gets an invite from a local government to propose on the opportunity to build/operate a regional landfill," he said, adding that the only way to make the project work financially is to bring in waste from outside the Pee Dee region. "We have never tried to hide this fact," he said.
Moore said the company spent eight months studying sites. "All of this has been at great expense to our company," Moore said. "I may also add that County Council agreed unanimously with MRR and our engineers on the superiority of the chosen site. This was not done behind closed doors; it was done in open session of the County Council."
'Magnet for waste'
What happens next to MRR's plan isn't clear.
The agreement in February required the "county's assistance and full cooperation" to obtain all the necessary government permits.
Moore said in one e-mail that the language means that "any interference, delay, or other breach of the contract by County Council has very serious implications."
Asked if the company planned to sue, he said, "we do not anticipate a lawsuit. We are still optimistic that the county will live up to their contractual obligations, as we have."
Pasley, the county's elected supervisor and council chairman, couldn't be reached for comment this week despite repeated attempts. He told The State newspaper earlier this year, "Our primary objective was to control our own waste destiny."
Andy McKnight, council's vice chairman, said the landfill issue has yet to be settled. "I'm against it because the people don't want it," he said. "I have no problem with MRR, but money isn't everything. We'll survive without an out-of-state landfill."
Meanwhile, the landfill's opponents say DHEC should deny MRR Southern a permit to build the landfill.
State law requires operators to show a need for a landfill, and South Carolina already has plenty of landfill capacity for its residents, said Jimmy Chandler, a lawyer in Georgetown with the South Carolina Environmental Law Project.
DHEC recently sent the General Assembly new regulations that should make it more difficult for counties to build large landfills that cater mainly to out-of-state waste generators. The General Assembly's decision could affect the Williamsburg project and others, Chandler said.
It's unconstitutional to ban out-of-state waste, but it's OK to craft laws making it difficult to build landfills larger than what state residents need. "At the rate we're going, we're turning into a magnet for waste from all over," he said.
Reach Tony Bartelme at 937-5554 or tbartelme@postandcourier.com.
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Comments
eyecantspel (anonymous) says...
I have driven through Williamsburg County once on the way to Florence. I did not drive back through, I took 95 to 26.
I haven't been back to Florence either.
All I can say is that taking the deal makes the most sense for the county and its taxpayers. A million dollars a year could be spent pretty well on attracting anything. Unless, of course, they don't need the money.
December 22, 2008 at 1:22 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Edwin435 (anonymous) says...
My families homestead is in that area and I vote no! While that area is rural, the money generated from that site would not help that community at all yet they would be the ones that have to deal with the smell, increased traffic, and all the other environmental issues that come with this monster. The county politics involved with the Mega Dump turns my stomach and fear that if they do get the dump passed, that community will be ruined. I love that area. Pristine woods, rivers, and lakes make that area a prime country community. Would you like your place ruined? These people don't.
December 22, 2008 at 8:42 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
dawhetsell (anonymous) says...
Watch out for the gift horse. If it is too good to be true, IT IS . This will be a gift that keeps giving even when the pollution can't be stopped and MRR leaves the county with a billion dollar cleanup. Then company declares bankbuptcy after all the stockholders get their money and leaves the company.
December 22, 2008 at 8:54 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
GermanyXO (anonymous) says...
Williamsburg County leaders simply made a decision that a benefits Williamsburg County. Did Williamsburg County leaders demand MRR Southern submit an environmental impact study, or was it negligent in favor of financial gain? The concerns by residents and others downstream are valid and real. Storm water run-off and wastewater seeping from the proposed landfill threatens both real estate and wildlife in downstream cities like Georgetown and Charleston. Who wants to live on a creek/marsh that smells like garbage? What can Williamsburg County leaders produce for the rest of us downstream to address these concerns?
Perhaps it's fair. What have South Carolina politicians done to direct commerce, real estate development, and industry to Williamsburg County? Have Williamsburg County leaders been ignored, left high and dry by South Carolina politicians, and forced to make arrangements for themselves? Charleston lawmakers turn a blind-eye to massive real estate developments, permitting developers to exploit every square foot of land for financial gain, so why not let Williamsburg County leaders decide what's best for their county?
December 22, 2008 at 9:04 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Edwin435 (anonymous) says...
Williamsburg county is rural, agrarian, and not well represented. They get very little money from the state for development. They have largely been ignored. My family has lived there for many years and they get very little from the county much less the state. For years the county has been mismanaged. The county had a crappy credit rating. (much improved before the current administration took hold).dwhetsell was correct...too good to be true is just that.... There is hardly any manufacturing, no jobs, and the schools are horrible due to the lack of monies. The county also has one of the highest tax rate in the state. This is not a viable option. One part of the county bearing the brunt for the rest of the county to benefit. JUST SAY NO....
December 22, 2008 at 9:17 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
zekemire (anonymous) says...
THERE SHOULD BE NO GARBAGE BROUGHT INTO SOUTH CAROLINA FROM OTHER STATES! THEY SHOULD HAVE TO ACCEPT AND DISPOSE OF THEIR OWN! IF OUR STATE LEGISLATORS AND THE GOV HAVE ANY COMMON SENSE AND THE GOOD OF THE STATE AND IT'S PEOPLE, THEY WILL LEGISLATE THIS OUT OF BUSINESS IMMEDIATELY!
December 22, 2008 at 9:42 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
geekboy (anonymous) says...
Wow.... I'd have thought plasma-boy would have already posted at least 10 back to back posts by the time I got here.
December 22, 2008 at 9:53 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
yird (anonymous) says...
We have simply lived up to the terms and conditions of a contractual agreement largely proposed and dictated by the county."
It's unconstitutional to ban out-of-state waste,
=========================================================
In 1943 an old friend of mine was on a destroyer four days out of San Diego when they overhauled a Standard Oil of New Jersey
tanker,flying no flag, headed for Japan with a full load of crude oil. The ship was escorted back stateside and was impounded along
with it's cargo. The company claimed they were just "honoring" trade agreements made by businessman prior to the war..
Isn't it heartwarming to know the lengths honorable business people will go to abide by contracts or agreements, that enhance their earnings?
I don't know what constitution makes any mention of "out of state waste".
It must be the the one that so many claim guarantees everyone a job, home, health care, and college education.
Could one of you smart folks tell me where it is and what to look for specifically?
Thanks
December 22, 2008 at 9:57 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
ltgrunt (anonymous) says...
The Constitution has some fairly specific passages on interstate commerce, Yird. The "out of state waste" in this case does represent a facet of interstate commerce, and as far as I can recall, the Constitution doesn't provide for outright banning transactions between agencies of different states and reserves power over interstate commerce for US Congress.
This would of course come from the same Constitution that every reasonable American believes guarantees them the chance to pursue a job, home, health care and college education.
December 22, 2008 at 10:23 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
bunglinbee (anonymous) says...
It is embarrassing to see that our county council sees no hope for economic development in our county except by acting as garbage collector for other states. We have many talented citizens and great natural resources. Money is nice to have but you always have to give up something else to get it. Be careful what you sacrifice because some things are irreplaceable. Bless you- Andy McKnight- for being man enough to vote the people's wishes.
Williamsburg County has long been a haven for many hunters from around this state and other states.Those who come here to enjoy our forests and river do more to stimulate our economy than many of you may realize. To do anything to endanger that relationship (ie;polluting our own soil) is ludicrous.
December 22, 2008 at 10:27 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
carolinaboy29556 (anonymous) says...
As a resident of Williamsburg County, I can say that our county isn't as prosperous or famous like Charleston, Berkeley, Georgetown, or Florence counties, but we do enjoy living near Myrtle Beach. Williamsburg County's population is the size of Goose Creek and if they are going through with this "megadump" everyone in Williamsburg County need to move from this "backburner" of SC. The schools here are terrible because everyone has this notion of "I do not want to learn" or "I am destined to fail." There is not much growth here and the younger folks like myself are moving out of this county because there is not much opportunties out there. Also, citzens of Williamsburg County has to go into a different county whether if they ride a bus to migrate from here to Horry County or simply take a drive to Florence County for work. All-in-all, Williamsburg County is not a desirable place to live and with us being one of the poorest county in the state who would blame Pasley for having a dump into the county.
December 22, 2008 at 10:36 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
yird (anonymous) says...
ltgrunt;If nothing else you sure are persistent.
I'm well aware that that article 2 section 8 of the constitution gives congress the power to regulate essentially all commerce but most "reasonable" Americans would not consider dumping the trash from some states into the "green" areas of other states as commerce.
At least you got this right.
This would of course come from the same Constitution that every reasonable American believes guarantees them the chance to pursue a job, home, health care and college education.
Everyone has a right to pursue these things on their own but there is no constitutional mandate to actually provide them.
That misconception is the result of the predominant entitlement mentality.
December 22, 2008 at 10:51 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
zoomru (anonymous) says...
Geek BOY........
I wanted to see if ANYONE would miss the TRUTH...!!!!
Obviously this newspaper doesn't want to EDUCATE the citizens about ALL solutions to OUR statewide PROBLEMS...!!!
If you THINK that 2 Hundred people are a problem to MRR at this hearing.....CAN YOU imagine what 20K marching on DHEC and the Capital will be ONCE our Citizens are educated about PLASMA technology that turn all this TRASH into ENERGY to be SOLD back through the power GRID..!!!
When citizens statewide realize that the EDITORS of the sham are in on the NEWS "Blackout"...!!!
Commentors...think about this....if had not been informing all of you for the past year ....would you even know about other choices that are NOT being reported or talked about...!!!???
December 22, 2008 at 11:03 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
dawhetsell (anonymous) says...
I see everyone commenting about the constitution. I don't beleive that most of the people in the USA knows or cares about our constitution. It has been STOMPED ON from 1863. Most laws do not go by it, examples: the creation of the federal reserve, seperation of church and state or letting an illeagal immergrant become President. Therefore it should be no discussion about the constitution and upholding it unless you are willing to defend it.
December 22, 2008 at 11:08 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
yird (anonymous) says...
dawhetsell;Of course you are correct but defending the constitution short of going out and shooting every SOB that abuses it is tough.
Lawyers and politicians have twisted the constitution like taffy candy,and sweetened it to satisfy the taste of a want everything free electorate.
The events of 1775-6 reoccurring seem like the only real solution to restoring sanity to this country.
December 22, 2008 at 11:26 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
ltgrunt (anonymous) says...
dawhetsell, no immigrants - illegal or otherwise - have become President. Maybe you've been reading too much fiction lately? If terrible parenting and scapegoat legislation are to be believed, make-believe things can distort your mind.
Granted, many people don't understand the Constitution, the Bill of Rights and the other amendments to the degree which they should, but it's inaccurate to claim that the Constitution has been stomped on since 1863. Developments over our nation's history have prompted changes to the Constitution, embodied in the aforementioned amendments, but most of those have been in keeping with the spirit of the original document.
Your comment about the separation of church and state is vague and ill-defined. Are you complaining about the lack of adherence to the principle of separation of church and state, or are you complaining about the existence of said principle?
You are also unnecessarily vague in your comment about being willing to defend the Constitution. I would hazard a guess that just about all of the people who post here, whether they understand that document and this country or not, would be willing to defend it. Keep in mind though, that there are a myriad of ways by which to defend that document and the principles it stands for.
Yird, it's a lazy, vindictive, hate-filled "us vs. them" mentality that you're allowing to cloud your judgment by believing irrational things like your fantastical notion of "a want everything free electorate." The world won't always be the way you want it to be. You can't win all the time, and you'll face lots of disappointment in this life. The real world is not, in fact, Burger King - you cannot always "have it your way." Politics change, political parties gain and lose power and influence, social and cultural values ebb and flow. Get yourself accustomed to change or seclude yourself away in your fear of it, but don't pretend that everyone but you suffers from some imagined shortcomings simply because of your fear and lack of understanding of the world and its ways.
December 22, 2008 at 12:50 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
bunglinbee (anonymous) says...
I have to disagree with Mr. Moore about out of state garbage. I was at the county council meeting where MRR first explained their proposal and we were all assured of an approx. 75 mile radius. We were assured of a lot of other things that I sincerely doubt will come true in the end.Maybe he should check his notes.This problem has been over 12 years in developing and some are now looking for a quick fix. As for those excited about the proposed income and its positive impact on our county: Think again. According to newpaper reports,approx.$800,000.00 is missing from the fund set up to close the old unlined landfill at Salters and County Supervisor Stanley Pasley has not responded to FOI requests about where it went, although the Supervisor's office approved the expenditure. You can pump all the millions you want into this county's government and it will evaporate as quickly as it appears. It will never "trickle down" to those of you who believe it will.
December 22, 2008 at 3:14 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
yird (anonymous) says...
FDR and LBJ's myriad of social programs rather than helping people up, kept people down.
Now, after Bush has squandered billions on "bailouts" Obama is ready to continue the insanity.
It's a plain simple fact that as a country's treasury is destroyed, so goes the country.
If you read the Federalist papers you may be able to understand that
the men who founded this country knew in advance that without constant vigil we would arrive at the point we are today; a country with large segments of the population either unable or
unwilling to provide for themselves without some form of government assistance.
You informing me about the "real world" is akin to the students in school lecturing the teachers on the subject matter.
Thank you for telling me I'll face disappointments in life.
I've had more than my share but quitting is not in my lexicon. I'm better off than many today because I learned to face adversity at a very young age. You might say I was allowed to fail.
I know I can't always have it my way but I'm damn sure going to try.
Your little treatise about change is cute. So what! I don't fear change anymore than the next man as long as it's positive change.
Here's a few examples of change over the past 60 yrs.
More lawyers than engineers, more college educated people with degrees in sociology and psychiatry, fewer journeyman machinists, pattern makers and tool and die makers.
More personal indebtedness, more bankruptcies, more teen suicides, more people trying to buy homes they can't afford and losing them, more discipline problems in schools, more teenage pregnancies and that's enough for starters!
As for you last silly line, It's hard to make sense out of it but I'll try.
I do not imagine that everyone but I has shortcomings although there are a goodly number like yourself who have taken on an
undeserved air of sophistry and feel that the they are somewhat superior in design to those of us who actually think for ourselves.
If I, as you say have "fear and lack of understanding of the world and it's ways" maybe you with your vast perceived knowledge of the ways of the world can tell me just what "they" are.
I have traveled extensively over much of this planet and that little phrase has nothing in the way of consistency.
Finally--there is a book I think might help you immensely if you would take the time from you busy life trying to lecture those you look down on, to actually read it.
It's titled The Law and was written by the brilliant French economist, Frederic Bastiat over 160 years ago.
If you can't locate it let me know and I'll help you get a copy. It may change your whole perspective on "the ways of the world".
December 22, 2008 at 4:34 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
yird (anonymous) says...
MY previous post is in response to, Posted by ltgrunt on December 22, 2008 at 12:50 p.m
December 22, 2008 at 4:38 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Jttiger (anonymous) says...
For those that are curious, just take a drive down I-20 through Lee county just outside the town of Bishopville. The "mountain" just south of the interstate is the dump that will be dwarfed by the proposed Williamsburg county dump. Incidently, if you have trouble finding it, you will smell it long before and long after you see it.
December 22, 2008 at 5:01 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Philup37 (anonymous) says...
I would hope that ALL South Carolinians would rally together to FIGHT any type of landfill or waste company that wants to bring garbage from other states here to our beloved South Carolina. I can't understand why any government offical would want such a Mega landfill in their state. Here in South Carolina we are in the land of "Beautiful Places and Smiling Faces" and a six mile long trash dump and lines of garbage trucks DON'T FIT THE BILL here. I do not live in Williamsburg County nor have I ever lived there but my family and I do not want or need a Mega Dump there, or any where else in South Carolina. MRR needs to look at their back yard to build a Mega Dump, not ours. SAY NO MEGA DUMP IN SOUTH CAROLINA! Williamsburg County needs to attract clean technology businesses to the area.
December 22, 2008 at 5:40 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
takeoption3 (anonymous) says...
dawhetsell, that would be illegal immigrant, not illeagal immergrant. I'm guessing you were educated in Williamsburg County?
December 22, 2008 at 6:04 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
geturmyndrite (anonymous) says...
I really can't believe it. They're really ready 2 payout all that money 4 a landfill! When they ran out of funding 2 complete highway 78. That is like a major highway for developments such as busniesses and new homes. I would like 2 know where does all the sells tax go to 2. Y does summerville have 2 pay for there trash and 2 street up for me is charleston county and they don't pay for trash. The little people always get the short end of the stick!!!!!
December 22, 2008 at 7:24 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
ltgrunt (anonymous) says...
Yird, as often as you reference it, it seems that you've let that one book define your entire political view, which is a terrible idea both in principle and practice. No one book is sufficient to guide and inform any person. All the books in my library, including but not limited to Emerson, Plato, Sun Tzu, Machiavelli, William James, Voltaire, Payne, Mill, Sartre and even your precious Bastiat, are enough to give me an understanding of the world. Reading only one of them would never be enough.
What is also not enough to form a competent worldview is world travel. Congratulations on having seen a fraction of the world in a handful of exotic locations, but that hardly makes you wise and worldly. It's downright insane for you to drivel on with your cookie-cutout mindset and clearly brainwashed group identity and suggest that you could somehow be more likely to think for yourself than I.
You spend almost all day every day on the comments section of a newspaper website whining and complaining about the things that you're too scared or lazy to change. Not only are you not contributing to the newspaper or those who read it, you're failing to contribute to the world in general. You're so self-important that you imagine you're being so helpful and benevolent all day when the reality is that you're an out-of-touch crackpot with a pathetically limited worldview who can't understand how modern politics and economics work. You obsess over Bastiat because you're stuck in the fanciful delusion that traditional, antiquated theories are simpler and therefore better than modern ones, reality and rationality be damned.
But hey, maybe you are as old as your vague claims suggest, in which case if the country really did go to hell, it did so on your watch. Way to go, you let the country fall apart and your major contribution was... to whine about it incessantly. Darn all those other people though, because responsibility absolutely couldn't rest on the shoulders of you and people like you.
December 22, 2008 at 10:35 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
yird (anonymous) says...
Grunt;obsession with your own self worth is almost admirable.
I keep the ART of War right on my bed stand and have read many volumes by the authors you are so proud to claim as though they are a rite of passage up to some mystical cerebral plateau.
But unlike you I have learned much of what I know from hands on experience. It helps to be well read but no book ever did a lick of work.
I doubt if you have read The Law but if you have it's obvious you learned nothing from it.
Incidentally,I have seen far more than a fraction of this world and few of the places I've been could be called exotic.
You could not be more wrong thinking I spend all day at the computer posting. I come in from my shop from time to time and scan
the threads. Sometime I'll rag egotistical clowns like yourself and other times just ignore them which would probably be a sounder choice.
I've read your posts, as you have mine I suppose and you come across as a generic new age secular progressive with a completely televised world view. Your kind are a dime a dozen.
Vague claims? I was born well before WWII but am fortunate enough to be in excellent health both physically and mentally, a claim I doubt you'll be able to make if you get to my age.
Your remark "traditional, antiquated theories are simpler and therefore better than modern ones" says much about your lack of understanding of history.
Nothing going on today is really new. Just different players and circumstances. Folks like you who think you have all the answers are not only willing, but actually go to great lengths to repeat the mistakes of the past.
Maybe when you grow you'll have figured that out.
Now I have to get my six hours of sleep so I can be alert as I sit at the computer all day.
Ciao!
December 23, 2008 at 1:11 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
ltgrunt (anonymous) says...
Your assumptions about me couldn't be more wrong, which falls in line with your limited understanding of the modern world. You assume that I'm very young and, by extension, you assume that I therefore lack experience, wisdom and that my views are null and void as a matter of course, which couldn't be more wrong. If you're as old or as wise and well-traveled as you claim then you should know what happens when you assume.
Don't try to transfer the frustration you feel over the tedium of your inefectual and wasted life onto me, Yird. And really, if all of your pompous whining just boils down to taking a cheap shot like saying "grow up" then it's fairly clear that you aren't really an overflowing font of wisdom and understanding.
For all your grandiose posturing, it remains apparent that your mentality is defined by making up arbitrary groups and inventing asinine reasons to hate and blame them for the world's problems rather than understanding where responsibility truly falls. You're a shill for the type of closed-minded, fear and hate-based scapegoating and brainwashing that keep people too stupid and afraid to think for themselves and which our leaders have been using for almost a decade to subvert and oppress us.
December 23, 2008 at 7:02 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
yird (anonymous) says...
ltgrunt;Not only do you need to grow up but you need treatment.
You are clearly delusional.I never assumed you were very young. Just younger and far less experienced than myself.
=====================================================
"fear and hate-based scapegoating and brainwashing that keep people too stupid and afraid to think for themselves and which our leaders have been using for almost a decade to subvert and oppress us".
So you've been an adult (or have tried to be )for at least a decade!
Just the fact that you think our leaders have only been sticking it to us for the last decade(read your own words above)when it's been going on big time since FDR show what an emotionally driven neophyte you are.
After you figure out how to separate the lines of gibberish you write(make them easier to decipher) you might want to try and give some other poster your snow job for a while.
Your pi$sing into the wind and I'm way out of your league!
December 23, 2008 at 10:48 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
ltgrunt (anonymous) says...
You're still making assumptions, Yird, and they continue to be further distanced from reality. If you're as old as you claim to be I shouldn't have to explain to you what methods of control and misdirection were used before the current trend of fear mongering. If anything, your age should have made it all too easy for you to point out how the current "us vs. them" and "those scary foreigners" mentality smacks of McCarthyism, as tends to happen with the cyclical nature of social and political trends.
I never said that our leaders have been sticking it to us *only* for the past decade, I only said *how* they have been sticking it to us *for* the past decade. And if you're asking me to simplify anything I write to make it easier for you to understand then I have a hard time believing that you truly understood any of the writers I mentioned, let alone Bastiat.
You're not going to be able to bully or berate me into submission, Yird, and your claim of being out of my league rings hollow and impotent.
December 23, 2008 at 2:46 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
yird (anonymous) says...
Hey Grunt,"You're a shill for the type of closed-minded, fear and hate-based scapegoating and brainwashing that keep people too stupid and afraid to think for themselves and which (((our leaders have been using for almost a decade))) to subvert and oppress us."
Look at the bracketed portion of you statement and tell me how you determine that "almost a decade" which is rather definitive can be construed as anything else.
We had no "leaders" in previous decades? There were no previous decades with leaders?
Come on guy get real. You are so desperate to upbraid me that you are getting yourself all twisted up in knots.
Tell me oh learned one, what was the basic theme of Bastiat's book, The Law?
Just answer that if you can. Don't insult my intelligence with your normal pattern of obfuscatory bovine scat.
If you know, good. If you don't I wont waste anymore time trying to save you from yourself.
December 23, 2008 at 3:56 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
ltgrunt (anonymous) says...
I'm shouldn't have to explicate Bastiat to you if you can't even understand my writing. Nevertheless, that pamphlet was in part an argument for government to protect individuals and individuals' rights but at the same time argues against governmental infrastructure, tax and expenditure. In The Law and his other works, Bastiat appears to be something of a Libertarian, arguing for less law and government overall, while ironically arguing against Utopian beliefs. It's worth noting that such minimalist approaches to government are fantastical and Utopian in their own right, but Bastiat certainly wouldn't have wanted to hear it.
I find it astounding that you can't grasp the structure of such a simple sentence. I'll simplify it to make it easier to understand how far off-base you are.
"You're a shill for the ... brainwashing ... which our leaders have been using for almost a decade ... ." Stripped of a few words, it should be glaringly obvious that the decade in question refers specifically to the kind of brainwashing our leaders have been trying to use. Obviously - or at least obviously for people with adequate reading comprehension - I am not generally stating that our leaders have only been trying to control us for a decade, rather it is painfully clear that I was commenting on the exact method that our leaders have been using to attempt to brainwash us for this past decade.
Now maybe you're done trying to deliberately misconstrue what I've written as a cheap way to feel as if you're right. You aren't trying to save me from anything. You're trying - in vain - to force your own misguided views on someone who isn't falling for your tripe, and you're embarrassing yourself in the process.
December 23, 2008 at 4:29 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
yird (anonymous) says...
Greunt; Your a two bit phony, and not even a very good liar.
The law dealt with the natural inclination of man to garner his needs in the easiest way possible including subverting the law.
It also went to some lengths to expound on the injustices visited on society through it's own inherent weakness.
There was also considerable discussion on the merits of capitalism and the pitfalls of socialism/communism.
You might have picked up something written by Bastiat and skimmed it for a general idea of what he was about, but nothing more!
Goodbye.
December 23, 2008 at 4:59 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
ltgrunt (anonymous) says...
If you're going to pretend to be so much more intelligent than other people, Yird, it would probably be a good idea to learn when to use "you're" as opposed to "your."
That aside, you asked for a basic theme, of which there were more than one in that pamphlet. Clearly, though, you would rather accept only your own interpretation and pretend that anyone else's different interpretation must be either wrong or fraudulent. By the same token, I could ask you to explain the theme of The Allegory of the Cave, call whatever interpretation you offer wrong and tell you that it's about optical illusions.
Apparently you'll never be done with your posturing and delusions of grandeur, but you should know that it isn't getting you anywhere.
December 24, 2008 at 6:41 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
yird (anonymous) says...
Grunt; You're, (I know the difference but sometimes it just comes out the way it sounds)attention to minutia is duly noted.
I took the liberty of looking over your posts to see if I could figure out your modus operandi
The following is a partial list of the individuals who have received your lengthy lectures.
Wilx45x EvilGenius Mosinfin SoutherGent
Jane Tides SimplyMad Beth1070 Highclass
Geekboy Johnnyholmes B_Fwank Chicag_Thug
Eyecantspel and of course myself.
In nearly every instance you assume the role of educator, patiently trying to get your irrefutable position to be understood by those you perceive as being so incapable of doing so.
It's really a shame that you have chosen a habitat populated by so many individuals of limited intellectual capacity.
It may boost your ego feeling that you are a "big fish in a small pond" but it has to be a tough hand to deal with.
I have no delusions of grandeur and I'm not specifically trying to get anywhere in particular.
I'm just jumping into the fray now and then and aside from trying to lend something of value to the topic of discussion, there is the added value of getting folks like yourself to keep trying to convince everyone else of their moral and intellectual superiority.
Granted, few who post would doubt your apparent intelligence. What rubs we poor unfortunates is the condescending undercurrent present in most of your diatribes.
And please, separate your lines so that those of us gracious enough to read them will be able to do so with less difficulty.
Thanks
On that cheery not I bid you Adieu and wish you a Merry Christmas.
December 24, 2008 at 10:31 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
wmsbg (anonymous) says...
Stanley Pasley, how dear you ink a 55 page agreement to bring a MEGA Dump to Williamsburg County. Is this the only way you think revenue can come into the county? If so, you are out of touch with the citizens of Williamsburg County and what is important to the county. What is important to the citizens of Williamsburg County are: high tech jobs, new schools and new hospitals to name a few.
If the county had these opportunities and conveniences available in the community most people that went on to secondary and post secondary school to obtain their bachelor and masters degree will return to the community to give back. However, if these opportunities are not available to them in the community, the education that is gained will be used in other counties that have career opportunities available to them.
So for once, be smart and say no MEGA Dump for the Williamsburg County, and draft a plan to bring viable jobs to the community that can enrich the community and its residents instead of bring more disease and ailments to the community.
December 31, 2008 at 11:39 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
nesmith (anonymous) says...
I am a resident of Williamsburg County specifically the Nesmith area and I am opposed to the Mega Dump. Williamsburg County has produced educated citizens. It is appalling to see people degrade a portion of the state when in whole the State has the lowest rating for education statistics in the United States. This is a situation that must be addressed in a different article. In reference to the Mega Dump Williamsburg County Supervisor/Chairman Stanley Pasley should reconsider his vote on this issue. He is an elected official that should be working on behalf of his constituents not against. Also I think all citizens of the state should stay abreast of this Mega Dump issue. Why should South Carolina be known across the United States as the Dumping State for all trash. Think people Williamsburg County is centrally located between the following counties Berkeley, Georgetown, Florence, Clarendon, and Marion County. This Polluted Garbage will have to travel through various counties and cities to get to the landfill. South Carolina will have more garbage trucks and landfills than tourist traveling throughout our beautiful state. I have included the names of the council members and I am urging all to call them to discuss this matter. We Don't Want Trash in Our Back Yards, Black River, Lakes, and Polluting the Air. It will travel and pollute your area also.
Council Meets: 1st Monday & 3rd Tuesday, 6:30 p.m.
Stanley S. Pasley Supervisor/Chairman
(843) 355 9321
Andy D. McKnight, Sr. Council Vice Chairman
(843) 354-6294
Harry L. Darby County Council (843) 221-5428
Samuel E. Drucker County Council (843) 354-3141
Franklin Fulmore County Council (843) 355-6955
Harry Huggins County Council (843) 558-2511
Washington Wilson County Council (843) 558-2626
A. Vincent McCrea Environmental Services Dir.
(843) 355-9312
Ricky Scott Solid Waste Director (843) 382-2881
Pearl R. Brown Treasurer (843) 355-9321x546
Clarence Scott Landfill Director (843) 387-5133
Betty Etheridge Assessor (843) 355-9321x516
Sally Mouzon Auditor (843) 355-9321x543
Zella Major Roads & Bridges Dir. (843) 382-2881
Please see the links referenced.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21585255/
http://www.foundationwebsite.org/Misc...
December 31, 2008 at 11:43 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
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