Sanford proposes tax changes
Goal of broad-based plan is to spur job growth
By Yvonne Wenger
Gov. Mark Sanford proposed a plan Tuesday that he thinks will make South Carolina more competitive by wiping out corporate income taxes and cutting taxes on individual earnings in exchange for raising the state's cigarette tax, trimming business incentive packages and eliminating sales tax holidays, including those for back-to-school supplies and guns.
Gov. Sanford's tax plan would include cutting corporate income taxes and raising the state's cigarette tax.
The Republican governor wants the Legislature to cut income taxes for top earners and eliminate the 5 percent corporate income tax. Both changes would require legislative approval.
Sanford outlined his proposal at a stop in Greer, a day before the Board of Economic Advisors is expected to announce details of a worsening state economy that will force agencies to make another round of budget cuts.
"We believe staying competitive amid today's challenges means two things," Sanford said in a statement.
"One, a lowered and flattened income tax would represent a significant step towards making our state more attractive, and improving our competitive position when it comes to growing our economy. Two, we've got to get away from this piecemeal approach to jobs incentives."
Josh Barro, staff economist with the Tax Foundation, gave Sanford's proposal high marks.
Reader poll
Do you support Gov. Mark Sanford's proposed 30 cents per pack cigarette tax increase as part of his overall economic plan ?
- Yes, it's a good way to generate revenue and a good way to offset the proposed income tax cut. 72% 619 votes
- No, the combination of cuts and tax increases is not the way to solve our state's economic woes. 27% 232 votes
851 total votes.
Based on an analysis by the Washington, D.C-based nonpartisan research group, South Carolina would jump to No. 6, up from No. 25, in a ranking of state business climates if the governor's proposals become law.
That ranking would put South Carolina ahead of all the Southeastern states, he said.
"It sounds like a combination of really great reforms," Barro said.
For individuals, Sanford's plan would use a 30-cent cigarette-tax increase per pack and a new $3-per-ton tipping fee at landfills to offset a 50 percent cut in the state's top income tax bracket.
To balance the cut, the state also would have to repeal its sales tax holidays on back-to-school supplies in August, guns sold during the 48 hours after Thanksgiving and energy-efficient appliances, which is set to be offered for the first time in October.
Income taxes for workers who earn roughly $13,000 or more a year would be cut from 7 percent to a flat 3.65 percent.
Related documents
Click here to read what Josh Barro, a staff economist with the Washington, D.C.-based Tax Foundation, says about Sanford's tax plan.
Read Gov. Sanford's proposal, (Word document)
Read the S.Cc Chamber of Commerce response, (Word document)
Workers would be able to either pay the flat tax or pay 7 percent income taxes and claim deductions.
Rep. Jim Merrill, R-Daniel Island, likes Sanford's idea to cut the income tax rate, and sponsored legislation last session to do so, but he acknowledges that it will be a battle to put it into law.
Merrill said he doesn't necessarily agree with repealing the sales tax holidays, but the bigger issue is over how to use money generated by a cigarette tax increase.
South Carolina has the lowest cigarette tax in the country at 7 cents a pack, and a consensus has been building to use any new revenue to help more residents obtain health-care coverage, a cause the state Chamber of Commerce threw its support behind Tuesday.
"The South Carolina Chamber believes that any increase in the cigarette tax must be used for health-care-related purposes only," Otis B. Rawl Jr., president and CEO of the South Carolina Chamber of Commerce, said in a statement.
Previous story
SC Legislature close to illegal immigration reform; Sanford vetoes cigarette tax hike, published 05/27/08
"The Chamber supports increasing the state's cigarette tax to the Southeastern average to provide premium assistance to individuals and small business tax credits."
As far as eliminating the corporate income tax, Sanford proposes to pay for the cut by phasing it in over 10 years as the state's current incentive packages dry up.
The governor believes having no corporate income tax would be a strong recruiting tool as well as a benefit to businesses already located here.
State Commerce Secretary Joe Taylor supports the proposal.
"I think this will be a tremendous job creator," he said. "It will be a boon for our state."
South Carolina would be one of only five states with no corporate income tax. The other states are Nevada, South Dakota, Washington and Wyoming.
Reach Yvonne Wenger at 803-799-9051 or ywenger@postandcourier.com.
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Smart_Enough_2_Know_Better (anonymous) says...
Now THIS is an impressive proposal. I'm so glad to see that at least one leader in this state understands the importance of focusing on increasing the economic vitality of our state. So many other knucklehead politicians spend their time pandering to moronic causes. (Saggy pants, the naval brig status, etc.) I hope the rest of our legislature recognizes the value of this proposal and passes it- intact.
Now let's do something to overhaul the education system and South Carolina can look forward to bright and prosperous future!
December 10, 2008 at 1:26 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
chucktonian (anonymous) says...
Go Sanford! Great ideas all!
December 10, 2008 at 4:13 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Teach7775 (anonymous) says...
Tax them a dollar a pack...
December 10, 2008 at 5:20 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
groggle (anonymous) says...
Yep, Mark is one of the best governors out there. Fiscally responsible BEFORE it all hit the fan. This is a great idea. I hope he can pull it off!
December 10, 2008 at 5:45 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
KidYendor (anonymous) says...
We love Mark and we look forward to the day when he will become President of the United States.
December 10, 2008 at 7:04 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
amhsmom (anonymous) says...
Can't Nancy McGinley talk to him and get some advice before she axes neighborhood schools and overcrowds the already overcrowded schools, like Wando? Go Mark Sanford, I think his proposal is creative and good news in a time when we need it.
December 10, 2008 at 7:06 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
theronce (anonymous) says...
This is encouraging. It's time for the legislature to step up.
December 10, 2008 at 7:10 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
majorjohnson (anonymous) says...
I like it all but the cigarette tax. Know what, maybe we have the lowest beer tax in the nation too...maybe the lowest fast food tax. And it would be a terrible shame if we had the lowest property tax. And now that I think of it, we do have the lowest food tax! Food isn't even taxed anymore, what the heck is that about? We should raise the food tax to the national average, because if there is anything that we don't want here in SC, it's the lowest tax on a legal commodity. Heck, maybe we should just raise all of our taxes so we can be proud and say we have the highest taxes in the nation!
Everything in this list is about revenue, except the cigarette tax. That's about using the power of taxation to force people to not do or do something by artificially manipulating the price, and that's not what the power of taxation is supposed to be used for. I already don't agree that I should pay taxes to provide someone elses health care, for me to say someone who smokes or drinks or eats fast food should have to pay even more for someone elses health care would just be hypocritical. Let them be responsible for their own health care, and make the government quit playing these damned games with the tax code.
December 10, 2008 at 7:11 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
wonderdog (anonymous) says...
Great idea - this would attract new business to the state, which means more jobs. I wish there were more leaders like Sanford.
December 10, 2008 at 7:13 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
islandbenzbc (anonymous) says...
I think this proposal is worth a try...get moving legislators!!!!
December 10, 2008 at 7:14 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
lillycollette (anonymous) says...
Profiting from addiction -- of any type -- is morally reprehensible to me.
Simply saying that those funds are to be spent exclusively on health care is no more than taking the word of people I already regard as [duh] -- morally reprehensible.
So I vote 'NO' on increasing cigarette taxes.
December 10, 2008 at 7:16 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
lillycollette (anonymous) says...
http://www.irs.gov/newsroom/article/0...
Remarks of Commissioner Douglas Shulman before the 21st Annual George Washington University International Tax Conference
IR-2008-137, Dec. 8, 2008
[:] Global corporations based in the U.S. pay taxes in countries throughout the world, but recent events have shown that when it comes to tax jurisdictions, not all are created equal. In our current economic environment, when major multinationals need a helping hand from government, they don't seek a pro-rata portion from each of the dozens of jurisdictions around the world where they claim to do business. [:] We cannot allow an environment where large corporations can pay hefty fees and salaries for top talent to engage in overly aggressive shifting of taxable activities to low tax jurisdictions. We cannot allow this corrosive behavior to undermine the fundamental confidence in the fairness of the tax system which could prompt more and more taxpayers to cross over that dangerous line into non-compliance. In this arena we will devote whatever resources are at our disposal to ensure that our citizens are confident that we're all playing -- by the same set of rules. [:]
December 10, 2008 at 7:26 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
karmann (anonymous) says...
Increasing Cigarette tax is a great idea and may discourage some from using, not all, but some. I have always liked the idea of a flat tax too. Cut out all the loop holes and simplify the tax process.
December 10, 2008 at 7:28 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
lillycollette (anonymous) says...
Financial Crimes Enforcement Network (FinCEN)
Rulings
http://www.fincen.gov/statutes_regs/r...
and
U.S. Department of the Treasury
http://www.treas.gov/
Key Topics
http://www.treas.gov/topics/
December 10, 2008 at 7:31 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
oldglory (anonymous) says...
major - you said most of what I thought as I read the article. But I would add in all fairness that it seems only certain interests are targeted. How 'bout we tax the ammunition for guns, the worms for fishing, the golf balls for golfing and anchors for boaters-- oh oh and the big one, illegal drugs! Tax the heck outta those illegal drugs, because we pay a bundle in health care for those users! And for heavens sake, continue to allow kids to have their school supplies tax-free! We don't offer ALL kids a good education unless, of course, one has an innately intelligent child who will qualify for a magnet school, right?
December 10, 2008 at 7:36 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
carolinadude (anonymous) says...
You know, I think Gov Mark supported the 06 tax shift which has proven to be a major boondoggle. It also proved that he was for shifting taxes from his "beach buddies" and the "good ole boys" in the gated communities to the "have nots" in SC society. NO MORE TAXES!!! I believe in his spending caps proposal for local and state gov, but GOVERNMENT DOES NOT NEED MORE MONEY. And leave the smokers alone!! LOL
December 10, 2008 at 7:41 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Larz13 (anonymous) says...
Gov. Sanford has been advocating this since he was elected 6+ years ago. The bonehead legislature NEVER has gone along with it and it is both reps and dems! Jerks!
Major..FYI the food tax (e.g food you buy in a grocery store) in PA is 0%. That would seem to be lower than the food tax here.
December 10, 2008 at 7:46 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
singleroni (anonymous) says...
got to do something we need the jobs - worth a try as long as the jobs are for sc residents, not mexican immigrants
December 10, 2008 at 7:58 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
ChrisPia (anonymous) says...
I think this proposal has some good points and bad points.It would definately increase jobs in this state. I don't know if they would be high end jobs,though...My concern is this: If we take corporations off of the tax rolls than it would affect school funding and we as citizens would wind up footing the bill in property taxes.The cigarette tax is not a viable option because it depends on consumption of the product. If People quit or the price becomes to high than the tax base would be impacted....But I like the flat tax idea.
December 10, 2008 at 8 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
justjerry (anonymous) says...
Great proposal to increase investment in the state. The cig tax will generate some extra revenue for a little while and then have diminishing returns but by that time there should be enough new investment to make up for the difference.
December 10, 2008 at 8:01 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
nappyd (anonymous) says...
There are are already budget cuts in the state. How does cutting taxes help that out? This wouldn't balance, and there was already the referendum for cig tax that was voted down b/c of the push from convenience store owners, even if that would have eased the population's tax burden.
And corporations already have received huge tax breaks & incentives just to relocate here.
Not a bad idea, but wouldn't work.
December 10, 2008 at 8:10 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
exorcist_pencocky4u (anonymous) says...
JimIslander,
We are starting a collection to buy you a one way ticket to the workers island paradise of your choice, Cuba. Hope you enjoy your stay.
From all of us,
Merry Christmas
(PS- we have a penny in the pot, so far)
December 10, 2008 at 8:14 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
jk_newhard (anonymous) says...
Sounds good - will fail miserably. Continue to see cuts in health care and education. Low paying jobs will increase as will the incomes of the top earners. Infrastructure will continue to crumble. Then again, I'll benefit so why the heck should I care?
December 10, 2008 at 8:15 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
justjerry (anonymous) says...
singleroni - there is a huge difference between a SC resident who is a mexican immigrant and an illegal mexican immigrant who happens to reside here. Just wanted to clarify :)
December 10, 2008 at 8:25 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
SC_Native_ElCid07 (anonymous) says...
GO SANFORD!
I agree 100%. It will bring jobs to this state!
Cigs should have a higher tax as well, if you smoke I'm sorry but thats just what I think. Smoking (as if you didn't know) causes so many health problems and when you get sick, we have to pay for it through OUR taxes. If you choose to kill yourself, you should at least have to pay your way.
December 10, 2008 at 8:46 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
guidedbystewart (anonymous) says...
I think it is another bad idea by Sanford. It may attract low wage jobs but that is about it. Educated workforce brings well paid jobs, not tax breaks, and we have constantly seen how much our elected officials care about education. And where will the tax burden go? Probably the middle and lower classes! We are currently having budget shortfalls and now you want to shift the tax base. CRAZY! This is another plan to make the richer and keep everyone else poor and ignorant.
December 10, 2008 at 9 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mkris (anonymous) says...
JimIslander's got it right. Tax breaks for the highest earners only benefits the highest earners. Once the living costs are paid, any additional funds are invested -- out-of-state. Sandford's proposal will continue this state's race for the bottom. This state already has a tax burden 40th in the nation. High paying businesses are not locating here because this state's workforce is the most poorly educated, just ahead of Mississippi and Alabama and behind Louisiana.
December 10, 2008 at 9:07 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
wjhamilton3 (anonymous) says...
This is a massively regressive tax proposal, shifting much more of the tax burden to the poor and working class. I wonder if there will be any protest at all in South Carolina? With the massive cuts in government services, the poor will be paying more for less.
It's possible local government will need to increase revenues to replace State assistance, which will probably show up in fees (which aren't taxes). We'll certainly be committed to being a major industrial dumping site by putting so much emphasis on tipping fees for state income. Has anyone considered what it might cost to clean that stuff up fifty years from now?
With states and nations bidding against one another for corporate investment, it will be interesting to see when, if ever, the working class rebels against higher fees and taxes, lower wages, reduced government services and the prospect of expensive waste and contamination cleanups caused by under regulation.
Zoloft and TV keep people quiet now, but that doesn't solve the economic problem.
Where are working class people left in such a situation supposed to find the money to buy cars, houses and the other things the corporations have to sell? Has no one thought that far ahead? Surely the massive reduction in the value of stocks would indicate the rich have an important stake in making sure people can afford to buy things.
This won't leave much for our children. Maybe they will work cheaper than the Chinese and Mexicans and have the same standard of living. This isn't the South Carolina we were hoping to created thirty years ago.
December 10, 2008 at 9:10 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Name_Withheld (anonymous) says...
Government of and for the Corporations. The turnover of the state government to selected business interests would be complete with this one. No taxes for Corporations indeed. Anyone who is in favor of this who does not live on Corporate dividends exclusively, or works for a living, is a sucker to support this Republican Flat Earth proposal.
December 10, 2008 at 9:15 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
SCdeacinNYC (anonymous) says...
Dont' forget the fact that many of the companies that do locate in SC, locate for the cheap labor. Guidedby is right when he says the ideas will attract low wage jobs.
For those that disagree with the cigarette tax (I'm not sure how I feel about it myself, but I don't smoke), I think you have to realize that with Sanford cutting taxes essentially in almost every other area (except for eliminating the sales tax holidays, especially the most recent idiotic one on guns) taxes HAVE to be raised somewhere else. How else is a state budget that's already seeing a large deficit going to get the money it needs to run? While I like that Sanford actually has ideas, what will his ideas be when the legislature AGAIN votes down a cigarette tax increase, while approving everything else. We would have cut taxes everywhere else and have no where to make of the revenue. That's the major weakness in this plan.
I also think cutting corporate income taxes so that companies can locate here is bad. It's already proven many times to be a bad economics for struggling economies. The companies already have the incentive to locate here because of our cheap labor force, why give them a tax break on top of it. The idea that corporations chose to locate in an area because of low income taxes is an oversimplification of what happens. There are tons of factors, but states love to throw low corporate income taxes in there to sweeten the pot.
December 10, 2008 at 9:17 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Larz13 (anonymous) says...
$17000 and above is the highest tax bracket in SC. Seems like an income tax break would help just about all WORKING citizens. These are the highest earners.
Corporate tax breaks would make SC more attractive to business and hence, bring in more jobs and therefore, more tax revenue without raising taxes.
December 10, 2008 at 9:21 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
thisguy (anonymous) says...
One way to stop the bickering over income tax, corporate tax, and increased cig tax is FAIRTAX.
Everybody who spends becomes a contributor. This includes blacks, whites, smokers, non-smokers, legals, illegals, fast food eaters, gun buyers, gum chewers, drug dealers, and anybody else who spends money.
December 10, 2008 at 9:40 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
guidedbystewart (anonymous) says...
There are many of problems with this plan. It would have might have worked 30 or 40 years but as a country we rarely make anything anymore. We can not compete with the third world countries when it comes to cheap unskilled labor, tax breaks or not. We have shifted to an information based economy, an information based economy that takes a highly educated and skilled workforce. This is where SC has suffered. Even if we attract new businesses such as Goggle, we will have to import the workers from other regions of the country. This happened when Google moved one if it's centers to Berkeley County. Wonder how many people are from SC that works for Google, I can guarantee you that it is not many.
In our State, education has been our Achilles heel and continues to be so. The best thing we could do is invest into our future and train a more educated and skilled workforce. Then and only then will we see well paid jobs into our area.
December 10, 2008 at 9:43 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
justmyview (anonymous) says...
Even with no corporate income tax, seems like many corporations would not come to South Carolina due to the relatively small educated population.
December 10, 2008 at 9:45 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
exorcist_pencocky4u (anonymous) says...
Posted by SCdeacinNYC on December 10, 2008 at 9:17 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Dont' forget the fact that many of the companies that do locate in SC, locate for the cheap labor. Guidedby is right when he says the ideas will attract low wage jobs.
â-'â-'â-'â-'â-'â-'â-'â-'â-'â-'â-'â-'â-'â-'â-'â-'â-'â-'â-'â-'â-'â-'â-'â-'â-'â-'â-'â-'â-'â-'â-'â-'â-'â-'â-'â-'â-'â-'â-'â-'â-'â-'â-'â-'â-'â-'â-'â-'â-'â-'â-'â-'â-'â-'â-'â-'â-'â-'â-'â-'â-'â-'â-'â-'â-'â-'â-'â-'â-'â-'â-'â-'
I agree with you SCdeacinNYC and guidedbystewart, that Gov. Sanford should be trying to raise Corporate Tax to the highest point possible. That way he can attract the higher paying jobs and better Companies.
As seen on Billboards across America,
"It's okay to say Merry Christmas"
- Jesus
December 10, 2008 at 9:49 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Southern_Cousin (anonymous) says...
Anyone who can read can find the state's problem easily.
Please refer to the P & C's posted copy of "SC State Employee Salaries over $50K". There are thousands and thousands of SC state employees making a really nice living.
Only problem is, we can't afford them all.
Now, it used to be that if you worked for the state, you understood you didn't get paid a whole lot, but you got good benefits: health care, vacation, retirement. It was called "public service".
Now, the benefits offered are of much less quality and the salaries are huge -
Go look for yourself. This document is on the home page of Chas.net. It made me sick to read it!
Cut the fat, people!
December 10, 2008 at 10:07 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
iceman1978 (anonymous) says...
I like the idea of eliminating State corporate taxes since it may create an incentive for businesses to locate here. If more jobs are created then it generates more money, and revenue, in the process. I also like the idea of reducing the State income tax, but it should be reduced for middle and lower income first. If it were up to me, I would raise the sales tax to 9% across the board and abolish the State income tax completely.
Education has to be fixed however. If we have a well educated work force, we will have higher paying jobs and a better standard of living. I don't oppose an increase in the cigarette tax, I just think the revenue should go into medical care. Here's what I would do:
-Raise the sales tax to 9% and abolish the income tax.
-Raise the tobacco tax and use the revenue to increase funding for preventative health care.
-Add five cents to the gasoline tax (we can afford this now) and use the revenue to perform much-needed repairs to our roads and bridges.
-Streamline the education system to remove waste and misuse of funds. Legalize gambling under the condition that all revenues will be used for education.
December 10, 2008 at 10:16 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
GermanyXO (anonymous) says...
thisguy, too bad not enough SC residents will support a fair tax, but I have seen it mature where I lived overseas and problems with tax revenues as we witness under current economic conditions will raise arguments against it.
Why?
Every member of our state legislature wants a piece of the tax revenue pie and will wheel & deal with other members to fund existing and future projects (state infrastructure, corporate/employer incentives, tax breaks, schools, and highways) based on what the outlook is for projected revenue. So basically, members of our legislature are constantly planning to spend our state's money for existing and future projects over time, collected not only today, but over the years ahead, too. It is this practice that our Honorable Governor Sanford directed our legislators to abandon when he asked for drastic cuts.
And in turn, he's generating a climate for those with the finances (out-of-state/in-state corporations) to fund local positions (job growth). On the flip side, he's proposing elmination of sales tax holidays and raising taxes on goods so that when you look at the big picture, both parties are meeting each other somewhat half-way--both sides are providing capital for economic growth. With so few corporations and so many of us citizen-consumers, the Honorable Governor Sanford is wise to challenge legislators, and legislators would be wise to educate their constituents to recognize this goal.
December 10, 2008 at 10:24 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Time4action (anonymous) says...
Hold on Southern_Cousin. I work for the State, have a Bachelor's Degree, worked just under 20 years and make less than $50K. The salary is still low for more than half of state employees, the benefits are still great and it is still called "public service".
Having said that, there ARE some extremely high paid state employees in Columbia.
December 10, 2008 at 10:27 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
hairy1663 (anonymous) says...
Southern_Cousin, the majority of the state workers that make over 50 g work for quasi state organizations such as Santee Electric and the Port. These companies are self sufficient and don't use tax dollars to fund their operation.
So when some of you refer to low income labor I'm assuming your talking about companies like BMW,Nucore,Michelin & Blackbaud, because tax incentives played a major part in bringing those companies and others to SC. Many of these companies train there own labor, working with tech schools and colleges to educate workers. The Port sponsored an intermodal transportation class at C of C and Michelin sponsored classes in Greenville.
If you want to see how competitive it is between states read this article
http://www.hks.harvard.edu/case/ncbat...
December 10, 2008 at 10:46 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
k5 (anonymous) says...
Thank you Time4action! I am also a State Employee and feel the EXACT same way!!! I have given many endless hours of service to the citizens of this state, many that were overtime, flex hours or whatever you choose to call them that I never wrote down to ask for them back - so they were freely given! I do not make anywere near $50K and I am a supervisor; however, I love my job and am very thankful for my job and appreciate my benefits! So while there may be many making over that figure - what you don't understand is that there are 10x that number that don't even come close to that figure that are also working hard!! So before you judge - please get the entire story!
December 10, 2008 at 10:55 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Smart_Enough_2_Know_Better (anonymous) says...
wjhamilton, are you REALLY hoping for a revolt by the working class?? Are you still struggling with your interpretation of Das Kapital??
Dude, you're a divorce lawyer living in I'On. Other than how to profit from it, what do you know about working class struggle and despair? Perhaps it's the guilt that drives your extreme leftist comments?
December 10, 2008 at 11:15 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Larz13 (anonymous) says...
divorce lawyer living in I'On = DO THEY PAINT YOUR GRASS GREEN?
December 10, 2008 at 11:39 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
yird (anonymous) says...
guidedbystewart;This is another plan to make the richer and keep everyone else poor and ignorant.
Naturally you are not one of the ignoramuses.
=====================================
SCdeacinNYC;except for eliminating the sales tax holidays, especially the most recent idiotic one on guns) taxes HAVE to be raised somewhere else.
One reason to live in the anti-gun, tax mecca, NY, would be to avoid warrants issued in SC. Another would be if one hated guns and loved taxes. Either way your in the right place so you need not worry about what goes on here in SC.
========================================
JimIslander;Enjoy your depression idiots!!
Jim, by his own admission, takes government provided drugs to help him cope with the difficulties associated with his homosexual lifestyle, and he accuses others of being depressed?
=======++++++++++++++++=============++++++++++++=======
These are the same whining liberals that consistently see only more taxes and more government as a solution to all problems.
Could defective genes be the cause of this adversity to common sense thinking?
Liberalism is to freedom what the bubonic plague is to life.
December 10, 2008 at 11:47 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
guidedbystewart (anonymous) says...
Johnnyholmes, you are an idiot and just as much a troll as JimIslander. You are what is wrong with this State, too many self absorb pricks that have little to add more than just me me me me me me me me!
Stupid Enough To Know Little,
Just because someone is looking out for the poor and the working class does not mean that they are Communist or even Socialist and to say so is utter BS. Few look out for the poor and the middle class (particularly the local government) and with the direction this State is going in, and with policies such as these, things are only getting worse. While I have worked to better myself, I know what it is like to come from modest means. I know it gets many of you conservative's panties in a wad to have someone with half a brain to speak against the "good ole boy" system establishment, such as wjhamilton, but to me, he is one of the few that carries an intelligent point on this board and makes valid points!
December 10, 2008 at 11:53 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
POPPI (anonymous) says...
I agree with Govenor Sanford,it is too bad that the real
authority in this state is Bobby Harrell and his band of merry men.For gods sake give the govenor the veto power he needs to lead our state.But of couse that would take an act of congress.
December 10, 2008 at 12:27 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
AFWally (anonymous) says...
johnnyholmes--You are coming up with some sheet today. :-)
December 10, 2008 at 12:36 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
iceman1978 (anonymous) says...
Every free-market economy has some degree of socialism, even the United States. If we lived in a pure capitalist society we would have no protections or regulations to make some attempt at ensuring the safety of goods and services. We have OSHA, the FDA, FAA, FCC and Consumer Product Safety Commission. We also have Social Security and Medicare to help the elderly, many of whom would be in poverty without it. These all represent a degree of government intervention into the marketplace. There are varying degrees of socialism, some of which we need and have benefitted from. Most people don't understand that socialism and communism are two very different systems.
Communism is complete command-and-control of resources, management, industrial planning, distribution, wages, you name it.
Socialism has varying degrees. Sweden and the UK are probably more socialist than they are capitalist, Japan is somewhere in the middle, while the US and Australia are more capitalist than socialist. The difference in socialism is that certain industries are either nationalized or heavily regulated and subsidized. Energy, banking, medical care, defense and transportation are usually industries that are more regulated under socialism.
In Norway the oil company, Statoil, is heavily regulated and a good portion of the revenues go towards medical care and retirement programs.
In Sweden the airline and banking industries are mostly nationalized, but automotive and electronics and all private.
In the United States we spend taxpayer dollars to subsidize industries such as agriculture. We've spent hundreds of billions to bail out companies. You can't tell me this isn't socialism. Under pure capitalism you would sink or swim.
December 10, 2008 at 2:47 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
guidedbystewart (anonymous) says...
JimIslander,
I was not calling you a troll, yet many others have called you out for being one,
("An Internet troll, or simply troll in Internet slang, is someone who posts controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum or chat room, with the intention of provoking other users into an emotional response [1] or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion.[2]")
, yet there are many others on this site that are right winged that are rarely called out as being one, when it is obvious that they are as defined in the above definition.
:sorry if I hurt your feelings.
December 10, 2008 at 2:48 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
JC (anonymous) says...
I think most of you are missing the fact that he also wants to cut income tax by 50% for those who are in the top income bracket. This is the part I strongly disagree with. I usually agree with Gov. Sanford, but not in this case. This plan is giving to the rich and taking from the poor, widening the gap of the haves and have nots. Don't cut taxes for the haves - they have enough write-offs and loop holes now. SC should have raised cig prices ages ago. i don't think it will pass this time either.
December 10, 2008 at 4:29 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
june (anonymous) says...
I vote yes on the cigarette taxes and why give the rich a tax cut when the more
they earn should be taxed more,but the poor already poorer have nothing left
when payday comes around. I think the governor should rethink his ways of
improving the tax system. Perhaps it would be good to eliminate taxes on
back to school,gun and holidays taxes, everyone should have to paid same
fare.
There are a lot of other fat he could cut rather than funds on health care and
like all agree,support a better public education plan to people of SC. not all
can afford private school for their children.
December 10, 2008 at 4:31 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
iceman1978 (anonymous) says...
Eliminate the state income tax completely. The sales tax is the way to go since people who are making money on the black market would still have to pay. It would probably reduce the necessary overhead for enforcement too.
December 10, 2008 at 4:42 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
thisguy (anonymous) says...
Correct me if I am wrong, but this is what I read:
"Income taxes for workers who earn roughly $13,000 or more a year would be cut from 7 percent to a flat 3.65 percent."
Since when did $13,000 make you rich? Do you really think that this is a tax cut for the upperclass?
Seriously, how many people on here make less than $13,000/yr?
December 10, 2008 at 4:43 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Smart_Enough_2_Know_Better (anonymous) says...
GuidedByIgnorance,
My point wasn't that if you have money you can't help/want to help, it was more that if you haven't ever struggled to feed your family or pay your bills, should you really present yourself as knowing the needs/thoughts of those that have?
WJH spoke about the possibility (with a hint of hopefulness?) of a working class revolt/rebellion:
"...it will be interesting to see when, if ever, the working class rebels against higher fees and taxes, lower wages, reduced government services and the prospect of expensive waste and contamination..."
Since you clearly didn't make the connection... one of the major theoretical arguments made by Karl Marx is that the working class should revolt and take over the means of production to build a Utopian society. It's one of the first, important steps towards communism.
So no, I wasn't accusing him of being a communist for wanting to help the poor. I was asking him if he was because he brought out Marxist rhetoric.
December 10, 2008 at 5:16 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
majorjohnson (anonymous) says...
People who say the rich should pay more and the middle class should pay less obviously are getting their economic information from moveon.org. Half of Americans pay NO taxes at all. Not only that, they get money back called refunds that they never even paid in. How do you pay less than getting money back you never paid in? The rich pay practically ALL of the taxes in this country. I'm hardly wealthy, buy you people who just absolutely hate anyone making more than you make me pretty darned sick. What you really want is an even distribution of misery, and you'd even harm yourself and your country if you could hurt one person with more money than you. Greed may not be pretty, but envy is downright disgusting.
December 10, 2008 at 6:50 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
yird (anonymous) says...
Smart_Enough_2_Know_Better; GuidedbyStupidity wrote,
it gets many of you conservative's panties in a wad to have someone with half a brain to speak against the "good ole boy" system establishment, such as wjhamilton, but to me, he is one of the few that carries an intelligent point on this board and makes valid points!
Misguided implies wjh has only half a brain yet is still capable of impressing him because he carries an intelligent point and makes
valid points, whatever that is supposed to mean!
Constantly trying to elevate himself above the common low life, redneck, backwoods southerner, Guided lectures the rest of us on
just about every subject does nothing to mask his insecurity.
He is, what he accuses many other posters of being!
Governor Sanford has tried repeatedly to curb the out of control spending that the legislature seems addicted to.
Higher taxes do not equal better education.
Utah spends far less per student per year than most other states and produces better educated graduates but in spite of that the
same tired arguments are presented by the same egotistical know it all folks thinking that increased investing(higher taxes)in the
school system is somehow going to turn South Carolina into the Athens of America.
Liberalism, government sponsored failure!
December 10, 2008 at 7:35 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
crj3279 (anonymous) says...
Not a bad plan. It's always good to cut corporate tax rates (unless you're a socialist and hate the very idea of people making money) and income taxes are an abomination. Always makes me squeamish to tax vice because it seems a way to target the less-able but then it makes me squeamish to tax anything. Better to tax the less able than to tax the producers into oblivion.
December 10, 2008 at 9:36 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
rollo (anonymous) says...
The one thing that convinces me that this could be a real boon to this states economy is the people who post against it!
Anti-growth all!!
The principals of the fair tax could be applied to this state, but some people would fear that erasing all their objections to tax policy would leave them with nothing to complain about!
LOL!!!
December 10, 2008 at 9:52 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
scconservative (anonymous) says...
I like our Governors ability to rethink the same old Tax & Spend policies that have bankrupted the majority of the states, especially the Blue State cesspools. The Fair Tax is innovative and would do much to take the corruption out of all levels of Government. The incoming administration is preparing to foist a huge bevy of enormous tax & spend policies that almost guarantee a deepening recession and will shock the electorate to a level that hopefully in 2012 we will return to sanity and elect a leader with a clue. Gov. Sanford may just be that leader.
December 11, 2008 at 9:43 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
eyfigueroa (anonymous) says...
the Fair Tax would NEVER fly here in SC is it would take away too much power from our legislature and local politicians.
Without using taxes as a weapon to wield, how else could politicians convince the dumb masses of how to think and act?
People fear what they do not understand and are too lazy and intellectually limited to do their research.
I for one am tiring for railing against stupidity in our government.
I'm just pooped...
December 11, 2008 at 9:59 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
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