Merchants sometimes violate credit card policies
Rules not made to be broken
By Tony Bartelme
For more info
Click here to read VISA's official guidelines for merchants (141 page PDF)
Earlier last week, Dan Gracie pulled out his credit card to buy some shoes and socks at Factory Brand Shoes at the Tanger Outlet Center in North Charleston.
The Post and Courier
The cashier asked for his driver's license, saying she needed to see it before she could ring up the purchase.
Gracie declined, saying a customer doesn't have to produce an ID, just the credit card.
Who was right?
The customer, of course.
Visa's and MasterCard's official guidelines for merchants say that retailers can ask for an ID, but they "cannot refuse to complete a purchase transaction because a cardholder refuses to provide ID." Doing so violates the merchant's contract with the credit card company.
Further, Visa recommends that merchants not "ask for ID as part of their regular card acceptance procedures," noting that "several states have laws that make it illegal for merchants to write a cardholder's personal information, such as an address or phone number, on a sales receipt."
How to complain
Here's whom to contact if a merchant doesn't follow credit card rules.— MasterCard has a special online reporting form for consumers: Mastercard site— American Express 1-800-297-1234— Visa 1-800-VISA-911
Requiring IDs is a common credit card misconception. Another big one is requiring a minimum purchase .
Page nine of Visa's guidelines to merchants spells it out clearly:
"Always honor valid Visa cards in your acceptance category, regardless of the dollar amount of the purchase. Imposing minimum or maximum purchase amounts in order to accept a Visa card transaction is a violation of the Visa rules."
Gracie says he gets peeved when merchants break the rules, particularly when they ask for government IDs. "They might have good intentions," he said, but he doesn't like the idea of handing over personal information when he doesn't have to.
Concerned about identity theft, some states have passed laws prohibiting retailers in most cases from requiring customers to hand over IDs, phone numbers and other personal information during credit card transactions. With a consumer's home address, driver's license number, phone number, it's much easier for a thief to make mischief.
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In some cases, merchants have legitimate reasons to ask for an ID.
For instance, if someone hands over a credit card that hasn't been signed on the back, Visa says it's OK for a merchant to match a customer's driver's license signature with the one on the receipt. MasterCard has similar rules.
But Gracie said he signs his credit cards, and that some even have his photo on them. Merchants routinely ask him for his driver's license anyway.
"I was at a Shoney's a while back, and the manager and supervisor almost threatened to call the police when I refused," he said.
At the Factory Brand Shoes store, the sales person said it was the company's policy to ask for government IDs, he said. He gave her his American Express card with his name and photo on it, but she told him they didn't take cards with pictures on them because people sometimes put false photos on them.
Gracie said he finally caved in and showed her the driver's license.
Erin Conroy, Factory Brand Shoes spokesperson, said their company policy is to ask a customer for photo identification if the card is unsigned, if the signature line says "please ask for ID," or if the signature on the back doesn't match the signature on the receipt.
"In this case," she said, "our store associate was confused about the credit card policy but felt that she was protecting our customers. We apologize for any inconvenience to the customer, and are taking steps to ensure that all of our associates are reminded of our policy."
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Comments
LowCountryCrime (anonymous) says...
I'm always happy to see merchants asking for ID and matching the name with the name on the credit card. I have yet to see one actually writing down any info from the ID presented. A simple name and signature match is all that is needed. IMO, it is simply an extra step that helps to prevent fraudulent purchases in your name. After working a few of these types of cases, I developed a personal policy of NOT signing the backs of my cards. You would be surprised how many merchants don't ask for an ID even then.
Here's another helpful tip for you: Head down to the DMV and get a state issued ID card in addition to your driver's license. This prevents someone else from getting that ID in your name. If someone else tries to get that ID in your name, one quick look at the photos in the computer will verify to the clerk that something isn't right.
December 9, 2008 at 12:47 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Cid95 (anonymous) says...
While protecting personal info is important, so is protecting your money. And I've always thought the credit card system is really dumb - whoever holds the right little piece of plastic with my name on it can charge things to me. There is no validation that the person holding the plastic is me though!
How about a PIN to use a card? It's common in many countries. Yes, your liability is limited in case of a lost or stolen card, but why not make the system better so that fraudulent charges can't happen?
December 9, 2008 at 1:23 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
joldham (anonymous) says...
I FOR ONE WANT THE STORE TO ASK ME FOR ID... IF SOMEONE STEALS THE CARD BY WHAT THIS ARTICLES SAYS THERE IS NO WAY FOR THE STORE TO CHECK TO SEE IF THAT PERSON REALLY IS THE LEGITIMATE CARD OWNER. THE CREDIT CARD COMPANIES DON'T TAKE THIS POLICY INTO ACCOUNT IF SOMEONE STEALS A CREDIT CARD AND RUNS UP A LARGE BILL. THEY JUST WANT THEIR MONEY AND THEY COME TO THE CARD OWNER. WE NEED TO CHECK INTO THIS MATTER TO MAKE A NEW POLICY TO PROTECT THE RIGHTS OF THE CREDIT CARD HOLDERS.
December 9, 2008 at 6:48 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
wonderdog (anonymous) says...
I wrote "REQUEST ID" on the back of my credit card, and I am always asked now. My number was illegally used to buy cell phone minutes for a pay-as-you-go company a few years ago after I used it in a restaurant on King Street, so I am also very careful about where I use my card. I raised hell with the cell phone company, and they refunded the money, but it was a big hassle.
December 9, 2008 at 7:09 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
realintheus (anonymous) says...
Some people just want to make things difficult. I used to work in retail and we did match the signature and name on the card to the picture id. We didn't write down anyone's information because I think that could lead to ID theft. I think some people want to cause a scene or just want to be difficult. I would appreicate if the vendor took the extra steps to help protect me! If this same customers card was stolen and used with this same vendor he would probably be upset with that merchant if they allowed his card to be used without checking for ID. It is Christmas and the economy is in a slump. I think everyone should be particularly careful during this season. Come on people, either you will take a few extra minutes to help complete the transaction safely or you want to take years of dealing with ID theft on your credit report.
December 9, 2008 at 7:11 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
dogwoodroad (anonymous) says...
this is absolutely ridiculous - why on earth are you offended at being asked for your ID?
December 9, 2008 at 7:23 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
ms_lady2u (anonymous) says...
In this day in time we should be appreciative of those merchants that still try to protect one's idenity.We all know that some people are just never satisfy!!
December 9, 2008 at 7:28 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
justjerry (anonymous) says...
If I remember correctly another rule in the credit card company's merchant agreements which is routinely violated is charging a fee above and beyond the regular price for using a credit card. Not as common as it used to be but you still see it every so often. There are some merchants that can't handle the fees for small transactions and I don't blame them for declining to take a card for under a minimum amount.
December 9, 2008 at 7:34 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
ColdBud (anonymous) says...
There are two sides to this coin. Credit Card fraud is abundant everywhere. It's not uncommon for someone to present a card that is not theirs. Later, when you get a bill for something you did not buy, you dispute the charge and end up not paying for the purchase. Guess who loses money? When you use a credit card, or write a check, you're asking the merchant to trust you to pay him later. In my opinion, that justifies the merchant asking for ID. We follow the rules for using Visa and MC at my location and we don't ask for ID, but if you write a check, not only do we ask for ID, we photocopy that ID. If you don't like giving me your ID, its simple... pay in cash.
December 9, 2008 at 7:55 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Snapper (anonymous) says...
I have had this happen to me several times over the years and it makes me angry! I was once at a local area retailer and presented my debit card with my picture on it, and they still asked me for another form of ID. I told them that my picture is on it, and they still refused to complete the transaction. Ok, I left and went to my bank that issued the card. My bank informed me to contact the corporate offices of the retailer, I did, and they told me to return to the store and the manager would meet me and sort out everything. I returned, met with the store manager, was given my purchase at no charge, plus a $100 gift card for the troubles. It is the sole responsibility of the card holder to cancel their cards if they become lost or stolen. Not the merchants who accept them. What's next? A current W-2 form to show that the currency that I am using was earned by me, and not stolen from the pizza place?
December 9, 2008 at 8:06 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Charleston_21 (anonymous) says...
I think the guy in this article is just one of those guys who complains about eveything in life. He probably stays PO'd at the world. I have never been to a place where they write down my information from my ID whenever I use my card. Hell, most of the time they just look at your picture/name and give it back two seconds later! I HATE, HATE, HATE going into places and they never ask for my ID. My card isn't signed on the back but at the same time I shouldn't have to tell them how to do their job. Everytime someone runs my card, without looking at my ID, I just want to tell them to not ring up whatever I'm purchasing because I find it sort of rude... and there is that awkward silence when they take it and run it.
December 9, 2008 at 8:39 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Charleston_21 (anonymous) says...
Credit card policies are great and all, but what about store policies... stores aren't trying to make the world mad, it's just another form of protection, especially with everything going on these days, I would want to make sure I'm protected everywhere. The last thing I need is someone else taking my card, going into a store that doesn't check IDs and then draining my bank account with their shopping needs.. this year I want to buy stuff for my family not some con artist's family! :)
But, at the same time it would be nice if merchants put up a sign saying "we check IDs for all card purchases". That way the clients are well informed ahead of time!
December 9, 2008 at 8:42 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
ssturmsc (anonymous) says...
Is this really a story?
December 9, 2008 at 8:47 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
hoyce (anonymous) says...
What if you present a fake ID with the stolen card? most cards these days have the $0 liability for fraud. Target and most other retailers doesn't require a signature for purchases under $25, what major retailer asks for ID at all? gas stations don't require ID for paying at the pump! Just keep throwing you ID and info out there, but don't come crying when somebody steals it!
December 9, 2008 at 8:51 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
MsPiggy (anonymous) says...
Charleston_21:
I'm thinking that since this article was the P&C's "watchdog" report, maybe the guy in this article was the guinea pig. Maybe he was going to test it out to see what would happen when he refused to show his ID with a credit card transaction. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm hoping he was doing it just for the article. :-)
I for one am PEEVED when I go to gas stations and they tell me I cannot use a card for purchases under 5 bucks. Who carries cash on them anymore? I understand that the owner has to pay the credit card company everytime the card is swiped, but still. I can't tell you how many times I had to tell the person working the register to put back my moonpie and coke because it didn't total 5 dollars. >:( I KNEW that it was a breech of contract and this article proves it! Muah ha ha!! Thanks P&C for providing the credit card company information so I can report them. Now when I'm at the Big D's gas station off of 95 in Where Ever, GA wanting my moonpie and coke on my card, I can share with them my new knowledge. tehe!! :-)
December 9, 2008 at 8:58 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
poor_paul (anonymous) says...
I agree with just about everybody who wrote in here, except Snapper. I especially agree with ssturmsc and Charleston_21.
By Tony Bartelme (Contact)- Tony, this was a really slanted piece of crap article that should not even have been printed. The whole article acts like the store is offending your rights by asking for an ID. I hope they do so every time.
If somebody steals my card and uses it, I of course will complain/report it, and the merchant gets stuck with a worthless receivable.
December 9, 2008 at 9:02 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
glevans (anonymous) says...
I don't mind people asking to see my driver's license when I use my Visa card, however; it does seem a little crazy to ask someone who already has a picture of them on their credit card for more ID? I don't think that most people would have the equipment at home necessary to duplicate a credit card and add a picture but who knows??
December 9, 2008 at 9:16 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Kerry (anonymous) says...
The credit card companies actually hype the threat of identity theft so they can continue hawking their "credit protection plans" which are nothing more than pure profit centers. If they truly wanted to stop criminal use of their products, then positive cardholder identification would be a requirement instead of a violation of merchant contract terms. The cardholder is only responsible for a small portion of any fraudulent charges in most cases, so the extra cost of these so called protection plans is a waste of money. Simply write request ID on the card, review your monthly statements carefully, and never let your card out of sight during a transaction if possible. Better yet, just pay cash and stay out of debt.
December 9, 2008 at 9:24 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
tgr83 (anonymous) says...
what about bars that require a minimum purchase amount on open tabs? is this technically allowable?
December 9, 2008 at 9:24 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
jmw9 (anonymous) says...
Working a job in retail is a real pain in the butt. Dealing with the public and all of their..... it makes a good job feel so bad. Thanks Dan Gracie.
December 9, 2008 at 9:37 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
will2297 (anonymous) says...
This is an incredibly slanted piece of journalism. I often read the Q&A by Judith Martin, aka Miss Manners, and a few weeks ago she posted a question on this very subject. Someone in the article said they were "highly offended" because a merchant asked to see identification for a credit card purchase. The merchant explained it was to prevent unauthorized credit card use, yet the patron still made a big scene because he was "so insulted" at the fact he was being treated like a criminal for using his own card. Judith Martin's response was perfect and is as follows:
Gentle Reader: How to lessen your feeling of offense:
Leave your credit card lying around someplace where there are likely to be disreputable strangers. Then check your next credit-card bill.
After that, Miss Manners suggests that you might want to make a sheepish apology to that insulting company.
December 9, 2008 at 9:37 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
SCdeacinNYC (anonymous) says...
tgr83, I'd like to know that too. Numerous bars here in the city try to pull that crap, it's usually high like $40 or so. Not to say I haven't racked up that much and more before...but it's still annoying, because I usually don't carry a lot of cash around with me. I've had friends who were only told about it afterwards and had to wrestle their credit card back from bartenders as a result.
As far as ID with credit cards go, I don't mind people asking to see my ID. My card has "Please See ID" also. I see both sides though, if you have a "credit card", if there's fraud or if it's stolen you are usually ok anyways. If it's a debit or bank card, you should be careful, it's a lot harder to prove fraud and get your money back if one of those is stolen. It's probably a good idea to have "Please See ID" on the back. At least if it's stolen and you can't get it cut off fast enough, It would be hard for a thief to make those purchases and have those purchases come straight out of your bank account.
December 9, 2008 at 9:40 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
tmi (anonymous) says...
I work in a retail store and I never ask for the ID UNLESS IT IS NOT SIGNED OR IT STATES "SEE ID" on the back of the card. We actually have training that states that we are not allowed to ask for the ID and we had to sign a form stating we would not violate this policy.
And if you think about it, that is the right thing to do. How many of you have ever (I MEAN EVER IN YOUR ENTIRE LIFETIME) used a family member's card whether it be your spouses, mother, or someone else in your family. I know some of you probably give your card to your teen child to pick something up at the store. Or maybe you had to purchase something for a friend. Even my co-workers and I sometimes will go get lunch for each other--one person will pick it up and a different person will pay with their card.
The problem here is that Customers have such DOUBLE STANDARDS!!! Most of you state here that you want employees to check your ID, yet if you were in a situation where you had to use someone else's card that you knew and were allowed to, but then told you could not, you blow up at the store employee and cause a scene in the store if they didn't let you. WHATEVER! If you card is missing report it!!!! END OF STORY.
December 9, 2008 at 9:44 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
onesidedsquare (anonymous) says...
i would think a better article would have been on the fact that you don't have to show your receipt to leave the walmart
December 9, 2008 at 9:55 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
dhshjh (anonymous) says...
I for one write "check id" on my credit cards. But there have been times I have sent my son with my card and no one ever checks. But the point is that these companies are violating the credit card agreement if they check id without it saying it on the card. Neither the customer or the merchant get hurt with the charges if the card is stolen. The credit card company does. I understand the stores trying to be more careful, but once they scan the card and it is approved they are no longer responsible for it. So stores need to honor the agreement they have with the cards. I agree that you as the card holder may have the "inconvienience" to call the credit card company and tell them that the fraudulent charges are not yours. If you want them to check your id then write it on the card. I have lost my card and called the companies and have never had a problem. I have never had extra charges on my card so I really don't know if there would be a problem, but they ask when is the last day you used it and I hope anything after that would be taken care of. My sister did have a problem with her card, (someone uing her account #, she still had her card,) and the credit card co called her because the charges seemed weird and she had no problem with them taking the fraudulent charges off her bill. Just keep track of your card and watch your statements.
December 9, 2008 at 9:57 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
iceman1978 (anonymous) says...
I don't mind being asked to show ID. You would be surprised at how often stores don't check for ID.
What bothers me is when they want to check your reciept and look in your shopping bag before you leave.
December 9, 2008 at 10:01 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
kimkayt (anonymous) says...
Want to avoid this debate at the cash register? Carry CASH! That'll shut 'em up ...
December 9, 2008 at 10:05 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
onesidedsquare (anonymous) says...
JH,
i haven't had that problem there yet but i had a best buy guard block my exit after buying an over priced camera till i showed him the receipt even though the associate I bought it from was still holding it in front of him!
December 9, 2008 at 10:50 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
TinaR (anonymous) says...
Johnnyholmes, I will have to respectfully disagree with you about Target. I sent my neices some items from Target at Christmas where I paid CASH and mailed the receipt with the items in case they did not work. When my brother and his kids went to exchange for something else he was told, that they did not carry the item that he had in hand even after he should the manager the same item on their shelf, then was told that he could only get something from that department instead. My brother was then told, well if they do not need anything from this department get something for yourself, they are just kids they'll never know the difference. My brother felt like it was stealing from his kids. Only after contacting the REGIONAL MANAGER did the store actually allow the kids to exchange the items.
Another instance that I know of is that someone I know ordered dishes for their mom from Target online. The order was placed in September, as it was supposed to be a Christmas gift, the dishes were back ordered and did not arrive until 4 months later, when the mom finally got them, and opened them, the dishes did not match, so she went to the store to exchange/return them and was told since the orginial payment was in September, and she came in January it was past their time for return/exchange EVEN THOUGH she had the packing slip that showed the items were not shipped to her until January. Store nor online attempted to correct the situation.. That is why I have not shopped at Target in 4 years nor will I ever. They are always trying to find a way to scam the customer in my opinion.
December 9, 2008 at 11:05 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
coolfreaknbeans (anonymous) says...
My friend and I years ago went shopping at Walmart. Upon leaving the 105 yr old door greeter dug through her bag and looked over her receipt. He then began yelling out, "What's a PREG TEST? ANYONE KNOW? Whats a PREG TEST?!" All while still plundering through her small bag. She and I were both absolutely mortified! Nearby shoppers were snickering. It was ridiculous. I had a mildly retarded door greeter chase me down in the parking lot screming at me for a receipt once. I'm with johnnyholmes- Target shows much more respect to their customers. I also agree with tmi's post very well said tmi!
December 9, 2008 at 11:14 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
iceman1978 (anonymous) says...
Does anyone know the legality of whether or not they can check your receipt and look through the shopping bag as you're leaving the store? Can you refuse to allow them to do that?
December 9, 2008 at 11:54 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Charleston_21 (anonymous) says...
dhshjh: sometimes it's not about who is going to have to pay penalty charges.. it's about losing your customers. I manage a salon and I would rather pay charges than lose a client.
December 9, 2008 at 12:03 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
onesidedsquare (anonymous) says...
you can find more consumer horror stories at the http://consumerist.com/
December 9, 2008 at 12:20 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
coolfreaknbeans (anonymous) says...
I'd be very curious to know the answer to that as well iceman1978. It seems to me that it would be illegal. Even police have to have probably cause to search you. I can't stand it. I've waited in line to get out of the fn door before, because peoples bags are being snooped through!
December 9, 2008 at 12:29 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
onesidedsquare (anonymous) says...
iceman1978, if you didn't agree to have your receipt checked you don't have to show it, they have no legal right to stop you, unless you set of the alarm, which gives them reasonable suspicion to check
but other than that, just walk around them, or clam illegal detention, if they don't let you out, just take your goods back to customer service and get your money back, go somewhere else,
http://consumerist.com/consumer/civil...
the exception is if you have a sam's club membership, they say in the contract that you agree to have your receipt checked
http://consumerist.com/consumer/civil...
December 9, 2008 at 12:29 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
monstermusic (anonymous) says...
DHSHJH, and everyone - here's news you can use. If you challenge a charge on your credit card statement, the credit card company says "no problem" and CHARGES IT BACK TO THE RETAILER! No way does the bank take the hit!!!
As a retailer, I am very gratified to see the vast majority of respondents who wrote that they would PREFER to have their ID checked. We do this not only for OUR protection, but for YOURS as well! We have had tons of customers over the years expect this, and they are very thankful that we do.
So imagine this - you're a business. Someone walks in and makes a purchase with a credit card. If it's signed, you just assume it's ok and run it without checking ID. Then suppose it gets charged back to you. That's tantamount to shoplifting! You've lost the product and not received payment. What the consumer does not see or realize is the very short-sighted policies of the credit card companies. We've had to deal with this sort of thing over and over.
Want to see how more ridiculous it gets? Look at the top of the online article for the "click here to read VISA's official guidelines for merchants (141 page PDF)". Are you kidding me? 141 pages and you expect the merchant to commit the whole thing to memory and abide by every last word? How many of you have ever read YOUR credit card agreement that comes with your card?
Shame on the P&C and Tony Barhelme for giving retailers another black eye. Everyone - we are not out to get you and steal your identity! This was a sham of an article and totally one-sided. How many merchants and business owners did you talk to? I guess business was slow at the "Watchdog" desk & they couldn't find anyone else to play "gotcha" with.
Why do you suppose, by the way, that VISA has this policy? Could it be, perhaps, so that if the worst happens and a merchant DOES steal your identity because they looked at your ID, you don't sue VISA as a result? This is totally to cover their own butts and has nothing to do with the consumer.
December 9, 2008 at 12:31 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Satanssybil2007 (anonymous) says...
I know a lot of merchants in mt p that have the minimum purchace requirement and it pisses me off. I dont go to a lot of bars at all but the very few happy hours i go to i am not going to drink 10-20 dollars worth of beer and then drive!!! Hell no the DUI sure as hell is not worth it! now we know visa does not allow merchants to do this i wonder about mastercard?
December 9, 2008 at 12:39 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
yird (anonymous) says...
wonderdog;Like you I have written on my card "ask for ID. If someone gets hold of my card there's no sense in giving them a signature along with it.
If they want a picture ID I show it to them but it remains in my hand.
I never hand my debit card over where I cannot see it at all times like in a restaurant where the server shows up at the table for payment.
I'll pay at the register and tip the server in a separate transaction.
My identity has yet to be stolen, I can't find anyone who wants it!
December 9, 2008 at 12:47 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
n4dhs (anonymous) says...
what about the post office - i had to use my bank card there a while ago with my picture on it and was told that i had to have id - so i guess they are breaking the law too?
December 9, 2008 at 1 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
justjerry (anonymous) says...
OK - I did a little reading in the Visa guide and found out a couple of things. First (copied right from the guide) is on minimum purchases:
Dollar Minimums and Maximums
Always honor valid Visa cards in your acceptance category, regardless of the dollar amount of the purchase. Imposing minimum or maximum purchase amounts in order to accept a Visa card transaction is a violation of the Visa rules.
The next thing was that a merchant can offer a discount for cash payments but cannot have a surcharge for Visa payments. Sounds the same but it is just slightly different.
December 9, 2008 at 1:11 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
ColdBud (anonymous) says...
You do not have to show your receipt to anyone at WalMart. You don't have to let them look in your bags either. All you have to do, when they request to see your receipt, is say "I'm good, Thank You" and keep walking. The receipt is yours. The bags and their contents are yours. They cannot force you to turn over either item. A policeman can't even force you to turn over the items UNLESS the store has reason to believe that you are shop lifting. You cannot be detained UNLESS the store has reason to believe you are shoplifting. Reasonable suspicion of shoplifting is clearly defined by SC State Law. Purchasing items legally and then refusing to show your receipt or bags after the purchase does not constitute reasonable suspicion. If they stop you, they are then guilty of unlawful detention.
Some say that it's silly to refuse to show the items. Personally, I feel that WalMart is asking you to be part of their security team and failing to pay you for your services. Once you pass the point of sale and you have purchased the items you have, they are yours. Unreasonable search and seizure is a violation of your rights.
WalMart does not explain to all of it's employees that the inspection is voluntary on the part of the customer. The employee than takes the brunt of the frustration when it's not really his/her fault. I always try and be polite, but I never show my receipt under any circumstances.
December 9, 2008 at 1:28 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Charleston_21 (anonymous) says...
I have heard that this is illegal but some places will charge you MORE for gas if you use your card but if you use cash, then you pay less... that's why I always get a reciept for gas now just in case :) As long as people get their money, they'll go to all costs!
December 9, 2008 at 1:28 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
justjerry (anonymous) says...
"Posted by Charleston_21 on December 9, 2008 at 1:28 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I have heard that this is illegal but some places will charge you MORE for gas if you use your card but if you use cash, then you pay less... that's why I always get a reciept for gas now just in case :) As long as people get their money, they'll go to all costs!"
We are smart enough to know that it is just semantics but technically they can only charge you less for cash not more for credit. I am smart enough to know that if a company does this it is just setting a price that they are willing to discount to if it is a cash purchase but evidently that is OK with the credit card companies.
Makes my head hurt thinking about it....
December 9, 2008 at 1:36 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
ColdBud (anonymous) says...
Charging more for credit card purchases is not illegal. There are many companies that do just that. They have to make sure that you know what you are paying, that's all. If they have a different price for cash gas purchases than they do for credit gas purchases, they just have to make sure they have signs up that clearly state the different prices. Credit Card companies charge the business a fee for each transaction, usually 3% of the purchase total. There are companies that have big signs up on the wall that state "All credit card purchases will be charged a 3% fee". It's legal as long as you are notified in some way. Some companies, like mine, just suck up that fee as a cost of doing business.
December 9, 2008 at 2:18 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Charleston_21 (anonymous) says...
Gotcha! I wasn't sure about the gas ordeal!!
Not sure what kind of company you do have or if I benefit from it but when business owners "suck up and pay the % fee", it helps everyone in the long run and eventually it will pay off. So thanks for doing it and good luck with your business! It's things little things like that that help your business grow. It keeps people coming back :)
December 9, 2008 at 2:41 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
halfsheli (anonymous) says...
Yird --
In a restaurant (or other places) the real danger in using a credit / debit card is not in allowing the server to take your card. The danger lies in the possibility that once the card is swiped, your number / info. could be stolen by a computer virus.
My mother owns two restaurants and someone uploaded a virus onto her POS system (computer) from a remote location. As credit cards were swiped, numbers were stolen before the POS program could encrypt them. Those numbers were then sold and my mother's customer's were victimized as their credit card numbers were being used by random criminals charging hundreds of thousands of dollars all over the country.
This situation is actually fairly common in restaurants. Companies who manufacture and sell POS systems are creaitng programs to prevent this type of theft now, but it is still a reality of using your card. This has nothing to do with merchants; they may do whatever they thought was necessary to protect their systems, but sometimes online criminals are more savvy.
December 9, 2008 at 2:46 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
justjerry (anonymous) says...
coldbud - not sure about illegality or not but it is against Visa's rules. You can give a discount for cash but you cannot add a surcharge for someone using a credit card (I am assuming that the other card companies are the same.) By giving a discount for cash you are in effect doing just that but the card companies don't mind that. They want you to do what you do and build the fees into the price of the products.
Here is the rule:
Always treat Visa transactions like any other transaction; that is, you may not impose any surcharge on a Visa transaction. You may, however, offer a discount for cash transactions, provided that the offer is clearly disclosed to customers and the cash price is presented as a discount from the standard price charged for all other forms of payment.
Six in one hand, half a dozen in the other....
December 9, 2008 at 3:36 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
ColdBud (anonymous) says...
True justjerry, it is a credit card company policy, but not a law. I don't see too many businesses do it anymore, I know that has the sign hanging and charges all credit card purchases an extra 3%, but I remember when credit cards first became the in thing all of the gas stations listed a cash price and a credit price. That was back in the 70's.
December 9, 2008 at 4:43 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
justjerry (anonymous) says...
Coldbud - did a little more research...
This is from a Q&A on the Michigan Retailers Association website:
Section 167 of the federal Truth in Lending Act states: "No seller in any sales transaction may impose a surcharge on a cardholder who elects to use a credit card in lieu of payment by cash, check or similar means."
Bankcard companies also include in their agreements with retailers a section that prohibits businesses from imposing a surcharge on credit card purchases. Businesses that violate this or any part of their bankcard agreement may be dropped from the bankcard program.
However, businesses are allowed by law to offer a discount for purchases made by cash or check. Check your bankcard agreement to see what it says regarding these transactions.
The difference between a surcharge for credit (which is illegal) and a discount for cash (which is legal) is the advertised price-a retailer cannot charge a credit card customer more for an item than its advertised price.
December 9, 2008 at 4:52 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
chs294 (anonymous) says...
Off the subject but I have to agree with Coldbud.. Wal-mart makes a little bit of money , pays it employees squat and then wants us all to play security for them. More reason to stop shopping there. They can keep their led-based, Chinese "stuff"
December 9, 2008 at 7:42 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
MsBehavin (anonymous) says...
I'm always happy to show my I.D. and appreciate any cashier who asks for it. IMO there should be more checks at the point of sale to insure that the ID matches the name on the credit card. Not sure how much money that credit card companies have to write off each year due to credit card fraud, but you'd think the cc companies would come up with a system to help eliminate some of it at the point of sale.
December 9, 2008 at 8:09 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Time4action (anonymous) says...
I had my debit card stolen at Walmart Tanger Mall. Not sure how they got it but that was the last place I used it and the next day at lunch I went to use it, it was not in my purse. I called my automative line and found out my card was used that morning and after I had used it at Walmart the day before. I called my bank and they had already put a block on my account. Not sure actually how they knew but was glad for the quick action of First Federal. It was used 3 times before a block was put on and First Federal refunded my money. I never carry cash. I always sign the back of my credit or debit card with "see ID" of course when they use it at gas stations or the like nobody checks. Normally nobody checks for my ID anyway.
As far as Walmart is conserned. They always checked for packages not in bags so I always ask for my big package of tolit paper to be put in a bag. That way I'm not stopped at the door.
I'm a new customer of First Federal but I like them.
December 9, 2008 at 8:18 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
wonderdog (anonymous) says...
I put a FREE fraud alert on record with all the credit bureaus. No one can open any credit in my name unless the company calls my home phone number (only) and verifies the application. I am not going to pay some credit card company a monthly fee to monitor my transactions. It costs me nothing to check my account periodically on line.
December 9, 2008 at 8:45 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
yird (anonymous) says...
halfsheli; Thanks for the info.
December 9, 2008 at 11:42 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
doxielover (anonymous) says...
Great, another thing for people to get all worked up over at the registers, making the lines longer. Just suck it up and show the cashier you ID! If someone steals your credit information, dispute it with the company. They will give you your money back and charge the retailer for the amount. Keep in mind that when you sign the electronic pinpads they often never look like your signature when it appears on the cashiers screen. I've worked retail for years and have never seen a signature match on that!
For all of you thinking you're so clever writing SEE ID on your card, try reading the fine print that says, not vaild unless signed.
I do have a problem with retailer who tell you how much you need to use to charge to use your card. I think that's a bigger problem!
December 13, 2008 at 11:58 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
hudson2408 (anonymous) says...
All you merchants who insist on asking for ID in violation of credit card contracts that you've signed, beware! You never know when you are going to encounter that cranky person, like me, who will report you. I won't waste my time and make a fuss in the store, but I have made many of these incident reports and every store that I've reported has subsequently stopped asking for ID.
December 18, 2008 at 3:40 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
chuckstown (anonymous) says...
wow i would like to thank the writer and the complaintee. Not only have they managed to scare small businesses into never asking for anyones i.d.and blindly acepting anyones card. but they are a huge effort in keeping your credit card interest rates up to cover for fraud.
I work for a small business and now that this article is out we accept anything handed to us by anyone because the owner is afraid he will lose his credit card license.
I have had my credit card stolen and had to eat the bill because they want you to prove it wasnt you. the credit card companies want credit cards to get stolen so they can charge higher interest rates. they will use any reason to raise the rates. recently 2 of mine went up even though i have been paying large amounts before the due dates.
And as far as the limit goes if you like using your card at many places then there should be a small limit or business will stop taking cards. All businesses pay a fee to take cards some pay a flat rate plus 7 cents per transaction. It varies but if it cost 35 cents to charge a $1.00 item that they are only making 40 cent profit it is not worth their time to take cards. there is a story in here a while back of a small gas station that had to stop taking cards because he only makes 7 cents per gallon and the cards were costing him 11 cents a charge.
I bet if the writer or the complaintee were to have their cards stolen they woulnt be so light on credit card fraud.
December 28, 2008 at 11:01 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
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