Sanford opposes stimulus proposals

chucktonian (anonymous) says...

Go Sanford Go! The government shouldn't be bailing ANYONE out. No more stimulus checks, no more government bailouts, no more corporate welfare.

SC has some great conservative leadership. Sanford and DeMint.

December 4, 2008 at 1:53 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

justjerry (anonymous) says...

Unfortunately the country does not have the same restraint. Obama/Reid/Pelosi will be running up the biggest deficit ever in order to do anything they can to prevent the free market from taking it's course. Get ready to open your wallets America, the middle class tax cut is getting ready to be a middle class tax increase real soon.

December 4, 2008 at 2:56 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

3olivesmike (anonymous) says...

Jerry
Can you explain to us how the free market taking its course will reverse the unemployment trend which is causing further default on consumer and mortgage loans which is convincing banks and institutional lenders not to lend which is causing further contraction of private business which then causes even more unemployment and default.
No name-calling, no post-election bitterness, no fear tactics from right-wing talk radio. Just economic theory please. If you can show me how the free market with no public intervention can pull us out of a recession heading toward a depression then I'm with you.

December 4, 2008 at 6:54 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

islandbenzbc (anonymous) says...

I agree with Gov. Sanford...no more bailouts for anyone!

December 4, 2008 at 7:06 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

AFWally (anonymous) says...

Mark is the man!

December 4, 2008 at 8:15 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

tigerrecord (anonymous) says...

3olivesMike.

There is a guy named Adam Smith, who created a theory, or a metaphor, called "the invisible hand." Google it.

I heard one of our representatives, Larry Grooms, speak recently and he said the most qualifying statement a politician could say. He said, "you can't borrow your way out of debt." Simple, yet so clear.

We are not heading towards a depression. We've only been announced in a recession recently, and while you ask that we remove the right-wing fear tactics, please refrain from using the qualifier of a depression in your psuedo-labeling. You couldn't speak of a depression in this market if you tried.

When the free market is free, it will act in it's own best interest. If businesses fail, they fail, if they prosper it's because they have competitive advantage and ingenuity. The framework of capitalism only thrives when left to itself. As much as it can be.

Let people default on their loans and suffer the consequences of their own stupid borrowing actions. Plenty of people were being foreclosed on before Bush, it's just more exposed and "relevant" now due to the stupid lending policies and even more ludicrous borrowing actions of the sub-prime loans.
Question, why is it more "relevant" now?

Why would you trust the government to run our markets, when they have never run the government well. There certainly should be public intervention, by the citizen mass, but not by the government. Let's stop dreaming that printing money so that we can use it to shrink debt, while annihilating our dollar will work. Your living in a fantasy economic world with no actual grasp on the concepts.

December 4, 2008 at 8:38 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

3olivesmike (anonymous) says...

Smith is the father of modern economics in that he saw individual self-interest as making all parties in a system better off. This is the "invisible hand". In Smith's day governments exercised complete control over people's wealth and Smith's insight was that left to their own devices individuals will make mutually good economic decisions. I believe that and therefore believe in the superiority of free markets over any command economy. However, Smith's theory works when individuals are trusted to make moral, well-informed decisions. Google "Prisoner's Dilemma" for a mathematical explanation of why this often doesn't work. The lack of transparency of financial institutions has led to greed by some and poorly informed decisions by others. In the short run the market is not going to repair itself. The fiercest free-marketeer I can think of, Larry Kudlow of CNBC, will not argue pure hands off. I agree with him that our solution is limited, focused government intervention that helps private business retain employees while investing in projects that will yield a return to the taxpayer (us).
Gov Sanford knows all this. He is being dishonest if he says he would reject aid to SC infrastructure. Actually I question whether he said what the article says he said.
And by the way, at least part of my "fantasy economic world" that which says that trying to control the deficit in a recession would be a disaster is taught in every macroeco class in the country: CofC, Clemson, Princeton, U of Chicago... You and Larry Grooms should check it out.

December 4, 2008 at 9:26 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

JC (anonymous) says...

Gov. Sanford, I applaud you!. Look what bailing out the banks got us - higher interest rates, fees and minimum payments, even if you have excellent credit. Banks took that money only to help themselves in order to pay stock holders and buy up the little banks that don't make it. And, what if we bail out the automakers? If the consumer doesn't have money to buy their cars, how long is that bailout money going to last, so what good is it to bail them out? Let them file bankruptcy and work their way out like the taxpayers have to.

December 4, 2008 at 9:28 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

3olivesmike (anonymous) says...

JC
Your comment on the bank bailout is fair. But it's an example of poorly thought out government policy. The cash went to banks with the expectation that the banks would do the right thing for their country. They didn't. They did the right thing for their own balance sheets - they sat on the cash. I also agree that the auto companies should go bankrupt and be allowed to try to re-organize possibly bringing the $75/hr labor cost more towards the $45/hr labor cost of Toyota in the USA.
But what about well planned and executed government spending to help business retain workers who will then resume their mortgage, car, and credit card payments. It all comes down to the worker/consumer.

December 4, 2008 at 9:43 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Zod (anonymous) says...

Tigerrecord, Free Marketeers won the day in 1929 also. They let it all die. All the cheerleading in the world could not save this economy from falling flat on it's face. Ignoring that fact is irresponsible. I suppose you believed peak oil was driving the barrel over 150 bucks too. Yes, the free market never goes wrong.......

You made a point to mention the "announcement" of a recession. It's funny that you rely upon an announcement from the government to defense your position. Logic did not need the announcement. Stocks are traded based upon a company's financial strength and profit. If you did not notice, the markets have lost 40% of their value in the past year. This was not a result of the future prospects of companies. The companies were in dire straits already. The markets told you that we were in a reccession over the past year. The government simply quit denying the fact. I guess you could not hear the market over the cheerleading of some conservative talk show host on the radio. But I commend all that would cheerlead the economy forward. "Free Market!" "Free Market!" "Free Market!" I just hope you realize that the last time we let it all die, it took more than a decade worth of public works and a ramp up to a world war to bring it all back from the dead.

December 4, 2008 at 9:44 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

willbillbedamned (anonymous) says...

Look around at the sorry state of financial affairs in SC and think of the gall Sanford has giving anybody advice. This is a conservative Republican state that has been run into the ground. You can't blame it on Obama. You can't blame it on Pelosi or any of the others often cited in conservative rants. It's the GOP, baby. A no tax weekend for guns while health care for children is cut. SHAME

December 4, 2008 at 10:19 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

3olivesmike (anonymous) says...

In the print version of the paper, this article is attributed to "staff and wire reports". If anyone from the PnC is following this please tell us what the sources are for Gov Sanford's remarks to the Pres-elect.

December 4, 2008 at 10:30 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mkris (anonymous) says...

Posted by 3olivesmike on December 4, 2008 at 9:26 a.m. and Posted by Zod on December 4, 2008 at 9:44 a.m.

good analysis.

December 4, 2008 at 10:42 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

islandbenzbc (anonymous) says...

Don't worry...Clown Clyburn will get SC's share to spread up and down his beloved "I-95 corridor"...and line the pockets of his relatives!

December 4, 2008 at 12:02 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Chilldiesel83 (anonymous) says...

I am a Republican, but if you look at the Auto Industry bailout compared to the financial market bailout it is like comparing a pinto to a rolls royce. The reason the Financial Institution bailout did not work, is because the money was given with no stipulations and no oversight. This money is being given to the auto companies with the oversight that salary, production levels, dealerships, etc etc will all be lessened to a point, because there is one, there is a point in which the auto industry can make supply and demand an equilibrium. That is how this probably can be solved for auto industry, because they are going to bankrupt because salaries for all employees are too high, and supply is extrememly higher than demand. Equilibrium for Supply and Demand along with salary and compensation/benefit concessions would solve this problem. The other note, is that Congress can either spend 100 billion to bailout the auto industry, or spend 1 trillion dollars to pay unemployment and provide health care to the 2 million people that is about to lose their jobs if they go bankrupt. The bailout will work with concessions and government oversight and extensive re-structuring. That is the only way it will work.

December 4, 2008 at 1:52 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

AFWally (anonymous) says...

The Government can't even control it's own criminal spending habits let alone holding the auto industry to some stupid concessions they'll never keep. Even if they do get bailed out who's gonna buy their overpriced junk? Our docks and ports all over the country are filled with vehicles the dealers can't sell. This whole thing will be another cluster like the bank bailout, bend over everyone....no grease needed this time around.......

December 4, 2008 at 3:21 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

3olivesmike (anonymous) says...

Hey Wally. Hate to break it to you but the "overpriced junk" manufactured by the Big Three in the USA isn't what's at the docks.

December 4, 2008 at 3:35 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

AFWally (anonymous) says...

Exactly the point.....they can't get rid of whats at the docks.....so who will be buying all these fine vehicles from the big 3 after the bailout?

December 4, 2008 at 3:40 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

3olivesmike (anonymous) says...

Then if that was your point you could have left the "overpriced junk" out. Cars aren't selling because unemployment is on the way up and credit-worthiness is on the way down. I don't agree with a GM bailout but there has to be some government spending to prevent the economy from contracting to the point of no return. How does 14% unemployment sound. Could be very close.

December 4, 2008 at 3:50 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

AFWally (anonymous) says...

I'm well aware of the scenario... I have 2 close associates who run dealerships local. I beleive unemployment is a factor but many are curbing spending, trying to pay off debt and houses etc. a lot of new purchase items are out the window. I suspect your close on the unemployment figure, maybe even higher as other industries begin more layoff's and furlough's such as the DOD and others. I was in Long Beach late August the cars in port were as far as you could see.....and not moving anytime soon.

December 4, 2008 at 4:04 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )