Teens caught up in broken system
Many receive reduced, more lenient sentences only to end up committing more violent crimes
The Post and Courier
Bellinger
The Post and Courier
Richardson
The courts decided George Bellinger deserved another second chance. He was just 19 when he got nabbed for having drugs and running from Charleston police in 2004. Sure, he had been arrested before, but there was still time to turn his life around.
Bellinger ended up in the state's shock incarceration program for first-time youthful offenders, an intensive prison program designed to set young criminals straight and release them in as little as 90 days.
Bellinger, however, quickly went back to his old ways after he was released on community supervision. He got busted again for drugs and running from the police. Then, in July 2007, he was charged in the fatal shooting of a 15-year-old boy in Charleston. He awaits trial on a murder charge.
Such stories are not uncommon among the 1,900 or so criminals between the ages of 17 and 24 supervised as youthful offenders. Historically, they are the least likely group to succeed, with a 55 percent failure rate. Success was even more elusive last year in places such as Charleston County, which saw a 65 percent failure rate, and Spartanburg County, where 81 percent bombed out.
The reasons are many: Lousy home lives. Poor education. Few job prospects. A network of family and friends in the criminal life.
The problem is this age group also drives much of the bloodshed plaguing South Carolina, fueling the rise of gangs and waves of retaliatory violence.
Under the state's Youthful Offender Act, known in legal circles by the shorthand "YOA," young criminals receive indeterminate sentences that can stretch up to six years.
Lynne Moldenhauer, lead probation and parole agent in Charleston County, said most young offenders who don't get shock incarceration serve about eight months behind bars and then must complete a year of community supervision. Many can't do it, as was shown by a recent review of 180 youthful offender cases handled by her office. "I couldn't find one case that was actually eligible for completion because the performance is so poor," she said.
Moldenhauer said she has seen criminals work the youthful offender system into their 30s, avoiding harsh punishments for their crimes. A trip to the Turbeville Correctional Institution, where many youthful offenders are sent, appears to pose little deterrent. For some, it represents a brief respite from the hazards of the street and a chance to reconnect with old acquaintances, she said. "It's like going off to camp."
Still, some bristle at the notion of further clamping down on young offenders and cutting off chances for wayward kids to move beyond their bad mistakes. One group, dubbed Juvenile Justice Reform, is pushing to change state law to allow young people charged with violent crimes to qualify for more lenient sentences under the Youthful Offender Act. Lawmakers removed violent crimes from consideration under the act in 1996.
The law has been the subject of heated debate since two former students from Mount Pleasant's Wando High School were sent to prison for 10 years for their role in a pair of 2006 holdups. Legislation that would have allowed young robbers to qualify for more lenient sentences failed to win passage this year.
Frank Cornely, a Charleston defense lawyer, represented one of the Wando teens and has been involved in efforts to change the law to give prosecutors and judges more discretion in dealing with offenders 21 and younger.
He said studies have shown that human brains still are developing in the teenage years and that young offenders might not be able to fully appreciate the consequences of their actions. Keeping teens out of adult prisons and working at rehabilitation gives them the best shot of making something of themselves, Cornely said.
Law enforcement officials largely have opposed such changes, saying it makes no sense to lessen consequences for violent offenders simply because of age, particularly when young criminals are behind much of the bloodshed.
"Violent offenders are getting younger and younger, and teenagers are getting involved in more and more hard-core crimes," Charleston Police Chief Greg Mullen said. "And a significant number of the people we are seeing have been through YOA."
Mullen and others argue that expanding the youthful offender program will increase the number of violent criminals who enter the justice system and come right back out. They say the program already has enough tragic examples.
One example is Lavelle Richardson, arrested in North Charleston in June 2006 for armed robbery, a charge that carries a maximum punishment of 30 years. Richardson, who was 17 at the time, was instead sentenced to a lesser charge of strong-arm robbery in September of that year under the Youthful Offender Act.
Richardson completed the 90-day shock program and ended up back on the streets in March 2007. A month later, he shot a 57-year-old man in the chest in North Charleston's Russelldale neighborhood. The victim lingered in a hospital for more than seven weeks before he died. Richardson is now serving a 15-year prison term for voluntary manslaughter.
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Comments
Cid95 (anonymous) says...
No welfare, more prisons with the money saved. "Reform" and "social programs" obviously aren't working. Send them to prison until they are adults.
Worst case scenario: they get out and commit crimes, which is what's happening now
Best case scenario: they grow up and mature in prison and come out clean(er)
August 28, 2008 at 3:36 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
js3c (anonymous) says...
The YOA sentences should have both a full term adult sentence and the YOA diversion. If the kid gets out and screws up then they go right back in to serve the adult sentence. Having worked in the prison system I can tell you that I always had to be more on guard with the YOA's than with the adult medium or even maximum security offenders. Also, only ONE YOA sentence. If you fail then you can NEVER get another chance.
August 28, 2008 at 4:20 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
auger (anonymous) says...
Another liberal "forgive them and they will turn their lives around" failed program. It seems that the only time they see the error of their ways is when one of their own is wiped out by one of the YOA program participants.
August 28, 2008 at 4:45 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
WhoCares (anonymous) says...
Stooopid activists!! I say combine the YOA and the Young Republicans...eitha way you's providing a training ground for future crooks and crimnals!!
August 28, 2008 at 5:40 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
sig (anonymous) says...
Just another example of DHHS not doing there job. The system is broke and they need to fire everyone at DHHS and start again. This state spends over a billion dollars a year on Welfare programs so people can sit on their butts and go out and committ crimes. While the people that really need the help can't get it.
Welfare moms creating welfare criminals and no father figure to try and keep these scumbags out of trouble.
The cycle needs to stop. I have worked for 42 years to pay for all these scumbags. The cycle will never end.
August 28, 2008 at 6:41 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
DoaMM (anonymous) says...
I don't care if you are a minor. Same punishment every time for every crime...and 2nd strike for the same offense gets you life!
They are worthless punks that work the system. "It's like going to camp..." Puleeaase. Harsher sentences is the only thing that will work, not leniency!
August 28, 2008 at 6:48 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
NativeSon (anonymous) says...
Perhaps we are ready to return to the law of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts ~ 1649:
Any Childe
Over The Age of 16
Who Shall Curse
Or Smite Their Natural Father Or Mother
Or Act In A Stubborn Or Rebellious Manner
Shall Be Put To Death
August 28, 2008 at 6:49 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
theronce (anonymous) says...
The young thugs are smarter than the people pleading their case for more lenient sentences. It's not that they "cannot" realize the consequences of their actions, it's that on some level they know that there is an exellent chance of NO consequences. Dang, there are some dumb adults out here.
August 28, 2008 at 7:32 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
justjerry (anonymous) says...
My uncle was a youthful offender for stealing a car as a teenager was given two choices, go to real big people jail or join the military. He chose the military, had a good career there, became a civil servant in the 70's and then owned a tractor trailer repair business until he retired. Why don't they do more of this? Force these kids into the military where they can be trained, learn a little respect and then either get out as productive citizens or stay in for a good career in the armed forces.
August 28, 2008 at 7:43 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
echo (anonymous) says...
Hey WhoCares - I'll bet you these thugs and their families and friends ALL vote democrat. I think the republicans are for letting innocent babies live and killing the horrible criminals. It's the dems that want to kill the innocent babies and let the horrible criminals live.
August 28, 2008 at 7:47 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Tammie (anonymous) says...
Unfortunately, when young punks such as these two (can't call them men because they're acting stupid) get into a program that is supposed to give them a chance to turn their life around fails, it makes the program look bad. These fools made a choice and like Boogie down Jones said, don't sugar coat anything, how many chances have they really gotten?
Since they want to act like animals, treat them like road kill. It's disgraceful to see people act like this.
August 28, 2008 at 7:48 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Cid95 (anonymous) says...
The military of today (all volunteer for 30 years) is very different than the military of the 70's (just coming out of 30 years of conscription).
The US Armed Forces don't need anyone there that didn't choose to be there.
Now, chain gangs and work camps, on the other hand...
August 28, 2008 at 7:51 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
DoaMM (anonymous) says...
I've also got a problem with the title of this article:
"Teens caught up in broken system"
I don't think their "caught up" in anything except what they've chosen to become. The term "caught up" suggests it was an accident which, clearly is not the case for these dingleberries...
August 28, 2008 at 7:52 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
DoaMM (anonymous) says...
Agreed Cid...
August 28, 2008 at 7:53 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
WhoCares (anonymous) says...
In my humble opinion, this article highlights the major problem facing our justice system today.
On the one hand, you have groups (i.e. Juvenile Justice Reform) of people made up primarily of affluent white citizens trying to change the law because a couple of rich white kids got a hefty sentence for participating in a couple of armed robberies.
On the other hand, you have groups (NAACP, ACLU) crying foul because they claim a serious inequity exists in the justice system whereby poor black kids usually get the harsher sentences.
And in the middle you have the judges and lawmakers who do not have the foggiest idea what to do. They are like a deer caught in the headlights! They cannot afford to offend either group; The more affluent white community is where they get the vast majority of their financial support, yet the NAACP and ACLU wield so much political clout that they can get them voted out of office (or at the very least, cause them serious public relations issues). So they're content to leave the system the way it is, even though everyone one both sides of the argument know the system is broken.
Sound familiar?? Look at Congress... Re-read the above and replace white affluent community with "Republicans" and replace NAACP, ACLU with "Democrats" and you will understand why our political system is just as screwed up as our justice system!!!
August 28, 2008 at 7:58 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
ccfirefighterchick (anonymous) says...
NativeSon, I like that idea!!! I am all for ending crime, and that would certainly help. If someone knows that they can commit a crime and not get in any real trouble for it, they are going to do it. If I know that I can walk outside and shoot someone and not get prison time, do you think I won't??? (Okay, well some of us won't because we were taught right from wrong all of our lives. But, you get the point.)
The Shock program may work for some, but I don't see any reason that repeat offenders should be able to participate. We are paying (with our tax dollars) to babysit these criminals and give them a fairly easy life. They get locked up, they are not working and providing anything for themselves. They are mooching off of society like they did before they went in while they were living in Section 8 housing and getting a welfare check. Where does it end?
August 28, 2008 at 7:59 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
oldglory (anonymous) says...
South Carolina just doesn't get it! EDUCATION
I know there are problems in the school system too. But how come with all those educated brains someone cannot come up with a few ways to make sure these kids are educated? No one on school boards, no administrators, no teachers, and most of all no parents. Is is because we are such a litigious society? Finger pointing and suing are our first answers rather than problem solving.
Does anyone problem solve any more? Is ANYONE, including parents, allowed to physically touch these children? Being a product of 'distant' emotional parents, I now realize just how much a hug would have meant, a word of encouragement, and someone rooting for me (and I was a good person and a good student and they were very good parents of that era).
I believe children are reared on 'their rights' rather than 'what can you do to resolve this issue in a good way'. I believe they are reared lacking emotional needs and never ask for comfort from any adult; therefore, feel no emotions causing them to act out horrendously.
At my age, I can say that life is far too short and still leaves years to ponder the 'what ifs'. Parents, Educators, State Officials, and yes, Children, we normally get only ONE CHANCE at life. Try.
August 28, 2008 at 8:03 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
justjerry (anonymous) says...
I would question the title of this article, it should read broken teens caught up in system. The opportunity is there, if they don't want to take it they deserve what they get.
August 28, 2008 at 8:10 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
number1volsfan1 (anonymous) says...
Until we get rid of the liberal "do-gooders", nothing will ever change.
August 28, 2008 at 8:10 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
ashleyatwork (anonymous) says...
Have any of you ever talked to these thugs? They do not want to do better!!!! They do not want an education or a real job. There lazy and proud of their lifestyle.
August 28, 2008 at 8:13 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
oldglory (anonymous) says...
I do know this too--babies are not born BAD. We have to imprint them.
Parents aren't born that way--they have to learn and follow their instincts.
When we don't educate all people, whether it be book-learning or life experiences, WE ALL LOSE.
August 28, 2008 at 8:21 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
jeff61 (anonymous) says...
If state Attorney General Henry McMaster gets his way, future victims and their families won't have to deal with these perennial hearings and endless uncertainty. He wants to abolish parole in South Carolina and is criss-crossing the state to build support.
info@scattorneygeneral.com
I guess contacting him would be a start for those who wish to see this parole program abolished
August 28, 2008 at 8:22 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
luckylady (anonymous) says...
Old Glory - I agree with you on the education. But parents - it must start at birth. You have to teach your children. Make them want to learn more and more. Hugs and kisses and quality time with your children will make a difference. Stop letting video games be a babysitter because you are too tired after working all day. There's a big world out there - why would someone want to spend it behind bars. There are always going to be criminals, it's just a sad fact of life. We need to crack down on school attendance and give the classrooms back to the teachers. It's sad when a teacher is afraid of her students - it should be the other way around. Kids skipping school should not be tolerated. Don't suspend them - that's what they want - a reason not to go. Drugs and thugs turn into MUGSHOTS!
August 28, 2008 at 8:27 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Weeeee (anonymous) says...
This reinforces what I said yesterday in another article.
Just another "second chance" to commit another crime.
August 28, 2008 at 8:52 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Weeeee (anonymous) says...
Hahhaha...the more "second chances" the merrier?
August 28, 2008 at 9:30 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
sethook (anonymous) says...
Come on, give him his 5th 2nd chance. Eventually he will make the wrong move with the police and they will end his pitiful life.
August 28, 2008 at 9:37 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
SCHoser (anonymous) says...
It's all nothing but piss in the wind-it will not stop no matter what programs you have, how much welfare you give or don't give, how many churches you build or how many schools you build. These thugs revel in the life of crime, and they all think that it's cool what they and their little friends do. The only time they get serious and act like they want to "go straight" is when they get caught. It's time to make decisions: Either get tough on crime or just deal with it. Until then, life will go on as it is and as it has been. Then one day down the road, we will hit a boiling point and all hell will break loose. People will eventually get tired of being robbed, raped, pillaged and plundered, and then they will do something drastic. It's life, that's how it goes.
It is simply amazing how we went from a country that could sleep at night with our doors unlocked, to not being able to go outside after dark. Our forefathers would be sick at how this country is being destroyed by criminal elements while we all just sit idly by and feel sorry for the poor little criminals. Makes me want to puke!
August 28, 2008 at 9:46 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
iceman1978 (anonymous) says...
The single biggest problem facing young people such as the ones in this article is that so many of them come from a household where there is no father around. Not only is there no father, there is no father figure present. Mom's situation is as such that she's either working two or three jobs to make ends meet, or she's into drugs and alcohol and hooks up with abusive men. The terrible home life however, is not an excuse for them to go out and commit crime. There are many who come from disadvantaged and/or dysfunctional backgrounds and are able to overcome to odds and make something of themselves.
The problem of fatherless children is one issue that needs to be addressed, as does our education system, drug policy and the ways in which we dish out punishment. Take some of these punks and get them out of the school systems for starters. If necessary, put them into a boot camp type of school for a year to straighten them out.
August 28, 2008 at 9:48 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
suec (anonymous) says...
"The reasons are many: Lousy home lives. Poor education. Few job prospects. A network of family and friends in the criminal life."
And because society portrays them as the "victim". They chose the criminal life. The right way is not always the easiest.
August 28, 2008 at 9:52 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
iceman1978 (anonymous) says...
Posted by suec on August 28, 2008 at 9:52 a.m. (Suggest removal)
"The reasons are many: Lousy home lives. Poor education. Few job prospects. A network of family and friends in the criminal life."
And because society portrays them as the "victim". They chose the criminal life. The right way is not always the easiest.
--
.....but it is the right way.
A friend of mine has that saying at the closing of e-mails.
August 28, 2008 at 10:15 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Bones (anonymous) says...
Easy solution for these two worthless pieces of trash, quick execution followed by charging the mother (next of kin) the price of the shell. When I was growing up (not that long ago) they had chain gangs and the prison they sent you too was HARD LABOR. It grew its own food 9all of it, including chickens, pigs and cows), dug ditches on the highways, etc. etc. If you committed murder, you were put to death by "sparky" and it wasn't 15 years down the road, it was in ~2 years. Kids were damn scared to commit crimes that would send them away. Sounds to me like we need to go back to that system. Oh, get the moral equivocators off the Supreme Court so we can kill these pieces of **** even if they commit murder while under 18.
August 28, 2008 at 10:25 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
forget (anonymous) says...
I was raised in a military family. We didn't get into trouble in our community because we weren't going to shame our father. We knew that he would get the repercussions of our shenanigans. Then in turn we would get ours...
It all goes back to the day they were born. There are never any consequences for their actions. We didn't act up in school because we would get that ruler on our hand then the teacher would call home at night. Then we would get it again. The adults ran the show then. Kids are allowed to run it now. I'm only 40 so it wasn't THAT long ago. Part of the problem is the lack of parenting in some homes, and those of us that want to parent, the government wants to dictate to us how we should NOT do it anymore. In other words, we should NOT do it anymore the way it WORKED.
I know someone who brags "I've never had to spank my children", well I hate to tell him, maybe if you had, you oldest wouldn't have a felony conviction against him. Maybe if you had spanked him he might not have a cocaine problem today. Maybe if you had, he might have respect for his supervisors at work, learned how to control his mouth and temper and be able to hold a job.
Again, there were no conseqences for his actions.
The saying goes "spare the rod-spoil the child".
Alot of these young people don't have fathers. Baby daddys don't count.
August 28, 2008 at 10:54 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Yeah_I_said_it (anonymous) says...
{speaking in my most annoying baby voice} Ah, wook at the wittle darwings. Aren't they jus the wittle victims of our cuwwupt system. Yes they are! Oh, my! Jus let 'em out to continue their wittle cwime spwee!
August 28, 2008 at 11:53 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Tammie (anonymous) says...
YISI...you know where to go. Thanks for playing.
August 28, 2008 at 12:05 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
iceman1978 (anonymous) says...
YISI, lol
August 28, 2008 at 12:09 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Yeah_I_said_it (anonymous) says...
Sorry, that's what the title of the article made me think of...lol! Seriously, exactly how are these teens caught up in broken system? They caused this crap on themselves. They need to get off this whole, "let's give them a hug and one more second chance" BS and punish these little shytheads!
August 28, 2008 at 12:21 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
amandamac (anonymous) says...
The system needs to start cleaning up the Section 8 housing and the people on welfare checks. If their child messes up in the system kick them out of Section 8 and cut the checks off. And for single moms that don't work and live off the system they need their tubes tied after two kids. Don't let them keep having kids that we have to support. Parents have to be more involved with their kids. And quit saying my kid wouldn't do that.
August 28, 2008 at 12:52 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
GreenvilleGirl (anonymous) says...
I understand the importance of education, and in SC, there is a problem with educating children.
We have proper personnel, gifted teachers, books, buildings, parents, administrators and students. Where's the problem? I'd estimate that almost half of our middle and high school students do not want to be in a classroom. They are HUGE discipline problems. They fight, disrupt class, threaten students and teachers, damage school property, and generally, they just keep others from learning. Until SC's education system can come up with a plan to put these kids in a different environment(a heavily disciplined regimented alternative school, away from students who are trying to learn), we won't see any improvement in test scores, rankings, etc.
These children should be in single gender schools on a closed campus, in a live in "boot camp" environment. We have the Governor's School for the Arts, why not form the Governor's School for Life Preparation. These kids are not likely to go to college, so teach them trade/vocational skills so they can function in society without stealing, selling drugs and committing violent crimes.
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that we're not doing something correctly. What would we have to lose by trying a different approach?
August 28, 2008 at 1:17 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
ms_lady2u (anonymous) says...
I totally agree with you'orist' I'm thankful for all the *##- whippings i got. Ever since they took our parental rights of discipline away, kids have used this against us!!
August 28, 2008 at 1:19 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
WhoCares (anonymous) says...
Amandamac -- Section 8 housing??? Welfare?? Where did that come from? Is it automatically assumed that just because someone commits a crime that they are from Section 8 and on welfare? I don't remember the rich white kids from Wando being from Section 8 ...or their pricey attorney being paid with welfare checks or food stamps! Or do you not consider armed robbery a crime? Of course not, through your rose-colored glasses I'm sure it was just a group of guys having fun. Darn those cops and the judge for sending them to prison!!! Shame, shame, shame!!!
August 28, 2008 at 1:21 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
DoaMM (anonymous) says...
Let's just go the German route:
Once a male in Germany hits 18 years old, he must choose whether he wants to be an apprentice while going to college for 8 years or join the military for 4 years.
That's it. No other choices.
(at least that's the way it was back in the early 90's...probably still is)
We should also adopt their drinking ages...but that's for a different story...
August 28, 2008 at 1:23 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
coolfreaknbeans (anonymous) says...
The tone of this article makes me wanna puke.Poor,poor criminals.I bet things would change if the people who let these thugs go were held accountable.For example the one in this article who shot and killed a 15yr old boy after his release.I think the family of the slain child should be able to sue and/or the people responsible for his release be charged with criminal negligence.
August 28, 2008 at 1:29 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
jeff61 (anonymous) says...
This is not germany. I see what your trying to say... but I don't think we need to model our self after a country with that history.
August 28, 2008 at 1:32 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
amandamac (anonymous) says...
Yeah those Wando guys did rob the stores and was found guilty. How many of them was sent to Shock treatment and how many straight to prison? They didn't get a second chance like some of these criminals that keep doing these crimes. Look at the people living on Section 8 and WORKING citizens, Which has the highest crime rate?
August 28, 2008 at 1:41 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
DoaMM (anonymous) says...
Awww, come on, jeff. We'll only "adopt" these German laws:
1. From the time of your birth, you're allowed to drink beer. (Who can argue with that!)
2. When you turn 14, you can drink hard liquor. (Get the pukin' outta the way before #3)
3. You don't drive until 18, and only AFTER a 2 year driving course.
4. You can have 3 marijuana plants in your home for your personal use. (no selling, buying, or smoking in public)
5. The polizei are able to kick the crap out of someone who deserves it.
That's it...America would be a better place for it.
August 28, 2008 at 1:55 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
iceman1978 (anonymous) says...
DoaMM, You forgot the best part. The Autobahn.
August 28, 2008 at 1:58 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
DoaMM (anonymous) says...
Oh...I almost forgot a couple:
6. 2 hour lunch breaks.
7. Within that 2 hour lunch break, you can drink beer.
August 28, 2008 at 2:09 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
jeff61 (anonymous) says...
Posted by DoaMM on August 28, 2008 at 1:23 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Let's just go the German route:
Once a male in Germany hits 18 years old, he must choose whether he wants to be an apprentice while going to college for 8 years or join the military for 4 years.
I was only questioning the part above. Why would it be a male only requirement? I just don't agree with forcing people into something which limits their options. Without going in to details there many occupational opportunities that do not require 8 years of college or a stretch in the Military...This does not include the criminal occupational opportunities list in these crime and parole stories of course.
August 28, 2008 at 2:13 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
DoaMM (anonymous) says...
The apprenticeship is for 8 years before they are considered a master in their trade. You don't HAVE to go to college while in the apprenticeship program from my understanding, but most do and get their degree in the typical 3-4 years.
There are/were very few women allowed in the German military while I was there. Women typically always went to college, but weren't required to do anything.
August 28, 2008 at 2:21 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
DoaMM (anonymous) says...
C_J...I'll race you with my F1.
I'll buy you your vette if you buy me my F1...deal?
August 28, 2008 at 2:22 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
DoaMM (anonymous) says...
I'll get you the GTO too, but that's it. What do I look like...the Democratic party wanting to give everything away to your broke arse?!
I am kinda interested in your Chevelle desire, though...why the Chevelle?
August 28, 2008 at 2:42 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
jeff61 (anonymous) says...
Well guess what,,, the guys in the article will steal all your cars... LOL
August 28, 2008 at 2:58 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
DoaMM (anonymous) says...
Ehhh, never liked the Chevelle's outsides. To each their own.
CB, I've done 175 on the Autobahn in a BMW 750...I was passed like I was standing still by an Audi A8. No joke. I wasn't wearing Depends at the time, but sure needed 'em.
August 28, 2008 at 3 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mkris (anonymous) says...
Hey if we had an apprentice system like germany, we might even have knowledgeable plumbers that can do a real plumbing job.
Oh yea, Charlesotn destroyed that educaiton system too
August 28, 2008 at 3:06 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
DoaMM (anonymous) says...
175 mph in a European spec BMW. It's the fastest I've ever been and don't wish to go that fast again on a public roadway. The sad thing is that all their cars are geared so high for the Autobahn, that I could beat just about any car off the line in my American spec Chevy S-10 with a V-6 4.3L.
Yeah, seeing that thing pass me gave me a new respect for Audi's.
August 28, 2008 at 3:18 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
luvmydogs59 (anonymous) says...
Posted by cypress_jones on August 28, 2008 at 2:45 p.m.
"A 1965 427 Galaxie 500 is good too..."
Damn, I miss my 1967 390 V8 Galaxie 500...best car I ever had. I used to race that car (typical teenage racing LOL) and it could kick some serious ass!
August 28, 2008 at 3:21 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
luvmydogs59 (anonymous) says...
Back in the day, my boyfriend had a '74 (or '73, not sure) Challenger. That was some awesome car. They just don't make 'em like they used to...
August 28, 2008 at 3:31 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
luvmydogs59 (anonymous) says...
"Back when the chrome was thick and the women were straight" - M. Savage
LOL great quote! Ah, the good old days...
August 28, 2008 at 3:41 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
iceman1978 (anonymous) says...
I always like the opening on the Michael Savage show when he plays the oldies music. I've got a 2008 Mustang GT that's a beauty. I didn't like the designs they went through in the 70's or 80's. The 90's were ok, but the newest design is awesome.
Want to see a concept car that Ford might have on the next Mustangs? Check this out.
http://www.motortrend.com/future/conc...
August 28, 2008 at 4:52 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
jeff61 (anonymous) says...
These Thugs just stole your truck money and got him hooked on crack...LOL
August 28, 2008 at 5:04 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
jeff61 (anonymous) says...
trunk monkey
August 28, 2008 at 5:05 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
iceman1978 (anonymous) says...
cypress_jones, I'm wondering when the dealerships will start getting those in.
Before the Mustang I drove a 350Z and then had a Mitsubishi 3000GT.
August 28, 2008 at 5:15 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
iceman1978 (anonymous) says...
I wish I could get a Cadillac CTS and use that as a day-to-day vehicle and drive the Mustang for pleasure.
August 28, 2008 at 5:15 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
jeff61 (anonymous) says...
LOL... Ok that is what makes it so mean......go check out the office attacked story
August 28, 2008 at 5:26 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
iceman1978 (anonymous) says...
The CTS is very sharp looking, and Cadillac is one of the most comfortable cars in my opinion.
August 28, 2008 at 5:33 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
jeff61 (anonymous) says...
I have .. never mind....I have a nice truck
August 28, 2008 at 5:54 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
1dyankee (anonymous) says...
mkris,
I am a plumber. 4 Year college degree in education. Put myself through college doing plumbing part time. Got my degree and went for a job interview. Was offered about 60% of what I was making part time. Why would ANYONE want to teach at the salary that is paid?
August 28, 2008 at 7:42 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
jeff61 (anonymous) says...
Posted by 1dyankee on August 28, 2008 at 7:42 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I am a plumber.
You lay a lot of pipe... so what are you complainig about....
August 28, 2008 at 7:54 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
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