Judicial dilemma
Courts face tough choices on probation, prison
Alan Hawes
The Post and Courier
Circuit Judge Roger Young questions alleged probation violator Alecio Montez (center), along with his public defender, Kelly Solar (right), and his translator during a hearing at the Charleston County Judicial Center. Similar proceedings take place weekly in courtrooms across the state for offenders who have broken the terms of their supervised release.
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A young man in black hunched over on a bench outside the courtroom door, head hung low and right leg pumping like a piston.
His girlfriend sat beside him, twirling a lock of hair around an ornately painted fingernail and staring into space. She seemed oblivious to the people pacing the worn blue carpet around her. An officer checked a long list of names on a clipboard. The air buzzed with nervous chatter. A public defender trolled through the scrum, calling the name of a client she needed to find.
Behind the courtroom doors, a couple of dozen others were easier to locate. Dressed in baggy, striped jail uniforms, shackled and chained at the hands and feet, they awaited their chance to shuffle before a judge and be released again or sent to prison.
This scene repeats itself weekly at the Charleston County Judicial Center and courthouses across the state. Like a criminal justice cattle call, dozens of offenders are hauled before judges to explain why they broke the terms of their probation.
All caught a break at some point, avoiding prison for their crimes in favor of supervised release in the community. Then they messed up. They didn't report in. They didn't pay their fees or restitution. They couldn't hold a job or started using drugs. They resorted to old ways or picked up new crimes.
Now, they must explain their behavior and persuade a judge for a second, third or fourth chance. Week in and week out, they trot out the same old excuses for why they didn't report, as required, to their probation agents: "I was scared ... " "I was broke ... " "I couldn't find a ride."
The size of the docket at these proceedings turns the process into an assembly line, giving judges scant time to evaluate cases. In just minutes they must decide who gets another shot at probation and who should be shipped off to prison.
Circuit Judge Thomas Hughston conducts many such hearings in Charleston County, and he feels the weight of his task each time he takes the bench.
"I live in fear all the time of not putting someone in jail who should be put in jail and then having them go out and commit one of these horrible crimes," he said. "I'm lucky not to have had that happen. But I do live in fear of that."
Examples of wrong calls and bad results are not hard to find.
Take the case of Rafael Horlbeck, a 19-year-old arrested for possessing a gun in July 2006 while on probation for a cocaine charge. He stayed free on probation after his firearms arrest. Three months later, he was charged with gunning down a man on a Charleston street.
Or consider Herbert Antonio Smalls, accused of killing a man over a bicycle in North Charleston in June 2007. Smalls, who has a prior conviction for assault and battery with intent to kill, was let free on probation despite a charge of an attempted armed robbery one month before the killing, police said.
Probation violators go free
Law enforcement officials say police and probation agents are doing their part by rounding up problem criminals and carting them off to jail. But, they say, some judges, faced with swollen dockets and overcrowded prisons, are reluctant to drop the hammer on probation violators and further burden the state's already struggling correctional system.
Between 2003 and 2007, less than half of the 64,970 criminals arrested for violating the terms of their release had their probation revoked by a judge, according to state records.
Even when that occurs, judges rarely require violators to serve the full terms of their original sentences. Some receive just a few months behind bars before returning to the streets on probation once again. Others simply get credit for the jail time they served waiting for the hearing and are released. Some persistent violators are just "terminated" from probation and set free with no supervision.
Jeff Harmon, Spartanburg County's supervising probation and parole agent, has seen a noticeable shift in judicial attitudes toward probation in his 14 years on the job. Today, he said, judges seem less selective about whom they put on supervised release, viewing probation as a cheaper alternative than incarcerating them in the South Carolina's packed prisons.
Alan Hawes
The Post and Courier
Tommy Lee Harris Jr. , 37, has a hearing in a Charleston County courtroom on charges that he violated the terms of his probation on a burglary offense. Circuit Judge Roger Young ended Harris' probation pending a payment of outstanding fees.
The state spent $14,093 per inmate last year to house criminals in its prisons, compared to an estimated $1,080 to supervise offenders on regular probation, according to state figures.
Years ago, Harmon said, judges like the late, legendary Frank Eppes of Greenville willingly gave people a second chance but didn't hesitate to send offenders to prison and make them serve out their full sentences if they screwed up.
"Judges like that don't exist anymore," Harmon said. "They view us more as a sentencing option, and if an offender comes back before them again, they will likely just continue them on probation. Prison overcrowding is making us a more viable option for judges because we can supervise these offenders for less."
Asked if he feels pressure to avoid sending some violators to prison, Hughston replied: "There's certainly no direct pressure, but unless you're living in a bubble, you're aware of the numbers... I'd hate to admit that."
Hughston said he has no problem shipping them to prison when they need to go. He recalled one man, facing drug charges, who was allowed to remain free while an evaluation was conducted to determine if he was suitable for probation. While out, the man committed a robbery and tried to shoot someone. Hughston sent him away for 10 years.
Hughston said most of the people who come before him for probation violations are there for a litany of petty crimes. He asks a lot of questions and tries to divine from their responses and records which ones are likely to succeed on probation and which ones are not.
"I just wish there was some way of magically knowing which ones are really bad people and which ones are not," he said.
Duffie Stone, solicitor for the 14th Circuit in Beaufort, said anyone who shows a propensity for violating the law is a risk. A career petty criminal could easily turn into a rapist or a murderer. That's just one more step over a line they've already crossed, he said.
"Some folks have decided that crime is a disease that good people catch, and that is simply not true," he said "Bad people commit crimes, and they don't specialize."
Charleston police Sgt. Debbie Fritts, who heads a special unit that tracks problem offenders, said lenient judges and lax parole boards give these criminals time and opportunity to realize this ill promise.
Fritts recalled sitting through 43 probation hearings one day to see what happened. All but three of the violators remained on probation or were set free with no additional reporting requirements, she said.
20-20 hindsight
Shannon McGee didn't get locked up for good until after he sexually molested a child younger than 11 years old in late 2005.
McGee, then 39, had been on a trail of violent crime since 1987, starting out with an armed robbery conviction. But each time he committed an offense, he was paroled or placed on probation.
The Georgetown County man was sentenced to life in prison two years ago for violating the state's two-strikes law by committing at least two serious offenses. Even then, he was charged with assault and battery with intent to kill for attempting to strangle the prosecutor in the courtroom.
Deputy Solicitor Robert Bryan for Georgetown and Horry counties said he was not physically hurt in the attack, but says it illustrated McGee's dangerous nature.
"Hindsight is 20-20," Bryan said. McGee should not have been free on probation at the time of the sexual assault, he said. "Shannon McGee is a dangerous person and he's where he belongs now."
Never the same
Jackie Olsen and her husband used to love visiting Charleston. He proposed to her in the Holy City, and they'd shared so many good times here. No more.
"Going there is just horrific," the Sumter resident said. "It's a painful thing, and I guess it always will be."
Olsen's sister, Mary Lynn Witherspoon (above), was strangled to death in her Tradd Street home by an stalker on probation after he was released from jail in November 2003 and ordered to get mental health treatment.
Edmonds Tennent Brown IV (below) had been arrested five months earlier for breaking into Witherspoon's laundry room and stealing her underwear. Brown, who has bipolar disorder, also had violated his probation on a stolen auto charge by failing to get mental health counseling.
His road to freedom began when he pleaded guilty to the charges and was dumped into a mental health court program that offered intensive outpatient counseling instead of a prison cell. Brown blew off treatment after his initial visit to a mental-health facility. No one went looking for him until he showed up at the 53-year-old French teacher's home a few days later, forced his way in, tied her up, raped and strangled her, leaving her body floating in a bathtub. He is now serving life in prison.
"I don't think the courts know how to handle probation for someone like Tennent," Olsen said. "You just totally obliterate the system by letting them out early."
Olsen championed and won a tough new anti-stalking law named for her sister. She is proud of that. But the pain never goes away. "My life will never be the same. I think about her all the time. With her kind of death, there is no closure."
Fritts remembered one hearing involving a man who was arrested for running from police and other offenses just six months after he was sentenced to probation for stealing a car.
"The judge says 'What am I to do with you,' sighs and then continues his probation," she said, throwing up her hands. "It's absolutely astonishing. There are no consequences."
It plays out on the streets
The revolving door that sets probation violators back on the streets contributes to increased street crime, especially among rival groups or gangs, Fritts said. "Retaliatory stuff is happening because there's no other justice." She shook her head in disgust. "Street justice. Do we have any other, really?"
Defense attorneys maintain it's unfair to hold an arrest against a person with a criminal record until he or she is convicted. Many judges, a good number of whom were defense lawyers before they rose to the bench, adhere to this logic as well. The problem is criminal cases can take months or years to come to trial, raising the chances that an offender will bond out of jail and commit more crimes.
In Charleston County, Circuit Judge Deadra Jefferson recently began an effort to push cases through the system faster. She told probation officials to gather dozens of pending cases and bring them before her for two days of marathon sessions.
This initially sparked panic that she was going to release criminals wholesale. But as she systematically moved through the list on a recent morning, Jefferson seemed weary of offenders' excuses and vowed to resolve as many cases as possible. She terminated the probation of a number of criminals and sent them back behind bars.
At one point in the hearings, Jefferson turned her eyes to the probation officers gathered in the seats where jurors normally sit, and told them "I know you all are overworked and understaffed. That's all I'm trying to do ... Make your load a little lighter ... get em off y'all's back."
Blind justice or soft on crime?
Still, many law enforcement officials remain convinced that the process is stacked in favor of criminals.
Offenders are almost always represented by a private attorney or public defender at probation revocation hearings. Probation and parole agents, however, seldom have a prosecutor on hand to argue their side, and judges limit what facts they can present.
Ninth Circuit Solicitor Scarlett Wilson, whose district covers Charleston and Berkeley counties, said she wants to send prosecutors to hearings with problem offenders but she doesn't have the staff to cover every hearing that comes up.
A couple of years ago, Charleston police tried to even the playing field by sending officers to the hearings so judges could get information first-hand from officers who worked the cases. The idea was that this would help judges get a better handle on which offenders were creating the most problems.
Police said they discontinued the practice because the judges seemed to resent the police presence in the courtroom and wouldn't let them talk.
Defense attorneys acknowledge that the system isn't perfect, but they argue that probation remains a crucial component for ensuring offenders get some opportunity for rehabilitation and redemption, particularly since budget cuts have eliminated most prison rehabilitation programs.
Frank Eppes, a prominent defense attorney in Greenville and son of the legendary circuit court judge, said nothing is wrong with the system that couldn't be fixed with more money to properly staff probation and parole offices and pay for effective alternatives to prison, drug abuse treatment and job counseling.
"Parole and probation are just critical, critical functions. There's not enough money to put everybody in prison or jail," he said. "It's a crime against God and man that everybody says 'Keep em' in jail,' but won't pay the taxes necessary. How's that going to work?"
Prosecutors and police say that without enough resources to monitor offenders on the outside, judges and parole boards need to be extremely careful whom they return to the streets.
Otherwise, criminals such as Charleston's Jamal Washington get new chances at lives of crime. Arrested at least 16 times since 1994, he has convictions for aggravated assault, aggravated domestic violence, illegal weapons, drug offenses and a host of other crimes. Despite his record and propensity for committing new crimes while on supervised release, Washington was paroled from prison on three separate occasions and placed on probation an equal number of times. He now faces a murder charge, accused of gunning down a James Island man in late July.
Circuit Judge Hughston understands the risks. But he has also seen successes, such as an Upstate man who came before him several years ago for stealing a car and leading police on a chase after a cocaine and alcohol binge. Hughston decided to give him a chance on probation.
The man went on to become a model citizen who married, had kids and held down a steady job.
What separates that man from the criminal who preys on the community that gave him another chance? Hughston wishes he knew.
Reach Glenn Smith at 937-5556 or gsmith@postandcourier.com. Reach Doug Pardue at 937-5558 or dpardue@postandcourier.com.
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Comments
This article has 45 comment(s)
Posted by Cid95 on August 26, 2008 at 1:26 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Prison overcrowding should NOT be an issue. The expectations of those in prison, for violent crime in particular, should be a roof and three meals a day.
Stop spending money on welfare, start spending it on prisons. One pays for lowlifes to live in society where they can and and do cause harm, one pays for lowlifes to live in prison where they can't cause harm to society.
Posted by BPFROM843 on August 26, 2008 at 4:10 a.m. (Suggest removal)
what i dont get is that you can get life in prison for drugs but if you kill or rape or rob you can plea out for 25 and under i feel that if the only person you put in jepordy because of your crime is yourself than you should never get any more than 10 years in prison for any drug charge if there is no violence no guns involved 10 years max and have something set up to where you can get your record expunged if you pay your debt and remain clear of trouble if you take the felonies off and let people in regular society i guarantee a reduction in repeat offenders once you have a felony your opportunities are cut down to about 30% which often leads back to crime but if they are givin a 2nd chance then you will see change until that happens what do they have to live for bein a bum is not an option drugs aint goin no where and neither is drug users these days everyone does background checks and even tho the manager used to do alot of drugs in his younger days but didnt get caught he looks down upon the one that did
Posted by NativeSon on August 26, 2008 at 4:57 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I think it is time for judges to answer for their lack of concern for the public. Aren't these judges elected? If not, they should be.
Kick them all out and start fresh with NO bleeding heart liberal judges kissing the butts of these career criminals.
The point these judges are missing is that the career criminal is really begging to be put in prison for a long time ~ that is why they keep commiting serious crimes. So, give them what they want - 30+ years behind bars without possible parole!
Posted by amberjack2362 on August 26, 2008 at 6:21 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I am tried of hearing that we have violated the civil rights of these carer criminals. The rights of the people in reality have been violated. We need a tent city like that sheriff out west and put them on chain gangs. The streets of Charleston and sourrounding areas would be cleaner of trash . Get hot Mayor
Posted by moonpie on August 26, 2008 at 6:24 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Wow really sheds some light on the problem didn't it? Sounds like you'll only go to jail if you commit a bad crime on an individual like murder, child molestation, etc. Stealing, drugs, etc won't get you there.
Well we are doomed!
Nothing in the headlines on the democrats convention opening last night? Was the P&C asleep? I got up early to post on that subject and not one article?
Posted by pirate42 on August 26, 2008 at 6:30 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Why not let the public say who goes to jail or gets free, like a poll on the net or a jury keep some of theses dogs off the street by the way is there a island called MEXICO we can send them too (all Races LOL)
Posted by thermmax on August 26, 2008 at 7:34 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Our Probation system is a joke as well as the Judicial system. Criminals do not fear anything there are no consequences, prisons are like country clubs. Drug dealers do more business and get more drugs in prison. And the probation system what a joke we might as well have them report to wal-mart.I personally know 20 people that are on probation, (most all of them are Caucasian I might add) because of the profession I am in. That report every 3 months and have not been drug tested in a year or more. They are addicts and if they are tested they buy some health food drink that makes them test clean. I do not believe we have a so called war on drugs in this country. Our government officials make way to much money on the sale of illegal drugs.I think we need to be more aggressive when it comes to illegal drugs/ alcohol and crimes. With the current economic situation the addicts and dealers are going to resort to even bigger crimes.
For those of you that think marijuana should be legalized perhaps you do not know the long term effects. Decreased IQ and memory in consistent heavy users could be the fact that long-term cannabis use has been found to decrease blood flow to the front areas of the brain (Neurotoxicologyand Teratology). Schizophrenia, paranoia, pulmonary infection and respiratory cancer just to name a few.
Posted by DoaMM on August 26, 2008 at 7:45 a.m. (Suggest removal)
It's the dumbing down of crime...If you have a good enough excuse for your "poor judgment" in the burglary, then I'll let you pay 500 bucks and you can go free.
"Just don't do again, you wacky guy, you!"
Pathetic.
Posted by mkris on August 26, 2008 at 7:47 a.m. (Suggest removal)
re "For those of you that think marijuana should be legalized perhaps you do not know the long term effects. Decreased IQ and memory in consistent heavy users could be the fact that long-term cannabis use has been found to decrease blood flow to the front areas of the brain (Neurotoxicologyand Teratology). Schizophrenia, paranoia, pulmonary infection and respiratory cancer just to name a few."
Aren't you talking about the average South Carolina voter, not marijauna smokers? Prohiition didn't work in the 1920's, it hasn't worked now with drugs. Drugs are a medical problem. Treat it like a medical problem. For abuse theres AA and Narcotics Annonymous. Tax and regulate marijauna like alcohol. That will free the space in the prisons for violent criminals. That would solve the problem. Won't happen because its too profitable for government officials and politicians to pander to the average voter.
Posted by charlene68 on August 26, 2008 at 7:49 a.m. (Suggest removal)
It is this way, because the judges give 2nd and 3rd and 4th trys. I know Someone with a record since back in 2000 he has been put in jail for cdv and has 2 probation violations and the probation officer said he did not break his probation for having a cdv charge. He said that CDV was not one of the conditions on his probation so did not know if he would go back to jail or not, he has a hearing in 2 days. lets hope they will put him back in there for the rest of the 5 years he is supposed to be serving. If my tax dollars are going to be spent on scum like that, I had much rather them be in jail than on the street looking to get into more trouble casue they know the justice system will give them a slap on the wrist.
Posted by 1963 on August 26, 2008 at 7:54 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Let these criminals go on probation and they will come back to haunt you. Who ever started probation anyway?
Posted by keepinitreal on August 26, 2008 at 8:19 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I say we open up Alcatraz again. Take all the violent offenders and put 'em on it with only the basics they need. Then when they get close to runnin' out, do a drop by heli with only half of what they need. Soon enough they'll kill each other to survive. Let them dole out their own justice. Oh, I'm feelin' sorta mean this mornin'.
Posted by DoaMM on August 26, 2008 at 8:23 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Jane, they'd think they had been dropped in Heaven. Looting, pillaging, and killing abound...
We don't want them feeling THAT good about their situation...
:)
Posted by Missing_Home on August 26, 2008 at 8:34 a.m. (Suggest removal)
BPFROM843- - - Right on, give them some incentive not to go back.
Posted by Missing_Home on August 26, 2008 at 8:55 a.m. (Suggest removal)
great article;
http://freedomflyers.info/forums/viewtop...
Posted by fullmoon on August 26, 2008 at 8:56 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Bravo, this is an excellent article. This is why crime is so out of control.
Posted by Missing_Home on August 26, 2008 at 9:03 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Hey Oristo, What you don't see on TV is the prison gang rapes, Fights in the yard, stabbings/beatings in the cellblocks. Lets say you commited a petty crime (drugs) non-violent, but because of sentencing guidelines you are thrown in with the lifers, They do all of these things to you for a few years. What is your mindset towards other members of society if you do your whole ten years?
What is your mindset towards society if you were out on parole in 3 years?
Don't answer right away, take a few minutes and think about it. Your there in your cell, doing your time naybe watching a little cable tv Than BAM!....Leroy and Bubba,(in jail for life) a couple of butt pirates want some fun with you.....Everyday
Posted by Dmoney on August 26, 2008 at 9:37 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I think one of the problems is our prisons which are suppose to be design to rehabilitate, are nothing but a breeding round for criminals to learn new crimes.
Posted by ysillyme on August 26, 2008 at 9:44 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Someone correct me if I'm wrong but S.C. is one of only a few states that combine parole w/ probation officers. This confusion is shown vividly throughout this story. Interchanging probation w/ parole helps criminals overload the system and keep the ratio of parolees to parole officer so ridicuously high. Probation officers can handle a much heavier caseload than can parole officers. Not to be sexist but the very high # of female agents enhances the need for police officer involvement thus restricting their ability to prevent crime; which is their job.
Posted by DoaMM on August 26, 2008 at 10:12 a.m. (Suggest removal)
ysillyme, Probation is given INSTEAD of a prison sentence. Parole is term used for getting out of jail early, and generally means that you will be on probation for the remainder of your sentence.
They are all probation officers, just working with different situations.
And they're all criminals too, no big difference there...
Posted by iceman1978 on August 26, 2008 at 10:16 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I don't have a problem with using probation so long as they keep a close eye on these people. The best solution I can think of for this is to take the ones that you think are less of a threat and put them on house arrest. Slap an ankle bracelet on them and monitor their movements so they can only go to work, the grocery store and maybe church. If they violate the terms they go back to prison to serve the full sentance.
Posted by abitskeptical on August 26, 2008 at 10:18 a.m. (Suggest removal)
moonpie said "Sounds like you'll only go to jail if you commit a bad crime...like murder, child molestation, etc. Stealing, drugs, etc won't get you there."
What it seems like to me is the opposite of your observation.
Many people get put away for ludicrous amounts of time, sometimes what amounts to a life sentence, for various drug violations, yet the violent offenders get the opportunity to exercise their violence on innocent others over & over.
thermmax said "perhaps you do not know the long term effects[of marijuana use]. Decreased IQ and memory in consistent heavy users could be the fact that long-term cannabis use has been found to decrease blood flow to the front areas of the brain (Neurotoxicologyand Teratology). Schizophrenia, paranoia, pulmonary infection and respiratory cancer just to name a few."
There are many substances, the heavy use of which, will cause similar & even worse toxic effects(short term & long term) on the body. Alcohol & tobacco readily come to mind. This knowledge is known & has been available for a long time now. Should alcohol & tobacco be criminalized because of the damaging & toxic effects which occur from longterm abuse?
Posted by Lovely_One on August 26, 2008 at 10:41 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Jane, the point is that they don't keep these people in the can forever so they come out with the same or worse mindset than when they went in. If they are going to be released at some point, it would be beneficial to us as a society and the innocent victims if the criminals were rehabilitated.
And keeping them away from drugs for years does not rehabilitate. It just suppresses the addiction for the time they are there. Most addicts come out and go back to the drug within a few years or months. Heck, there are people that even have access to drugs while they are locked away. I have seen this with my own two eyes while visiting a family member who was a ward of the state. A guy would go to the vending machine and leave a package on top. The next guy would come over and retrieve the goods. It was as simple as that!
Posted by thermmax on August 26, 2008 at 11:03 a.m. (Suggest removal)
abitskeptical---- I am not saying that one drug is worse then another. Abuse is abuse, and our society is out of control. Tobacco does lead to schizophrenia or paranoia, lung cancer, aging yes. My point is that legalizing drugs is not the answer. I do agree with rehabilitation and good information passed on to our future generation. Even pot heads commit violent crimes, a dealer does not care who sells to as long as he is making money. Selling to school children makes me sick; kids do not have the knowledge to make good decisions unless they have good parenting at home.
We have more people in this counrty abusing drugs, whether legal or illegal.
Look at the Olympics China showed that they are disciplined and a lot of self-respect. Something our society has forgotten, that we no longer instill in ourselves. We would rather walk around numb and blame everyone else for our circumstances.
Posted by jeff61 on August 26, 2008 at 11:14 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Posted by thermmax on August 26, 2008 at 11:03 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Look at the Olympics China showed that they are disciplined and a lot of self-respect.
I think that is because by not doing so will get the hell beat out of and thrown in jail until they decide to let you out.,,, if at all
Posted by wonderdog on August 26, 2008 at 11:47 a.m. (Suggest removal)
The teenager who robbed my parents years ago was caught red handed with the goods and was connected to more than 27 burglaries and robberies. He pled guilty to 7 crimes and served a year or two. Within 3 months of being paroled, he committed another crime. Twenty eight years later, he has been arrested and given probation at least 7 or 8 times, and now he is committing crimes including carjacking, muggings/assaults, drug dealing, larceny of a motor vehicle, breaking into motor vehicles and receiving stolen goods (all according to the Charleston County Clerk of Court website). He has been convicted more times than I can remember but has served no more time, thanks to the judges. He's totally free and has no fear of the judicial system - why should he?
True story: when this little piece of trash was caught, his parents mortgaged their house and hired an attorney, who drove the perp around and asked him to point out the houses he had broken into. The attorney had to withdraw after the perp pointed out the attorney's house. ROFLMAO
Posted by Missing_Home on August 26, 2008 at 12:24 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Hi Jane; correct prisons were originally built to punish, but as we progressed we realized that as prison sentences got longer we would have to let these guys out oneday. So we tried rehabilitation programs. They were expensive and not seeming to work so they quit, now we are faced with the same dilema, only instead of considering rehabilitation programs we are considering the "lock 'em up and throw away the key" method.
Someone else said "why can't we just drop them on on Island"?
One word answer to that "Austrailia"
Posted by abitskeptical on August 26, 2008 at 12:27 p.m. (Suggest removal)
thermmax..the concept is not to "legalize" drugs but to decriminalize some of them.
I would have to see the study showing the things you have mentioned. Studies can be developed to "show" just about anything.
Aging is not the only side effect of long term tobacco use. Besides, the term "pre-mature" aging is more appropriate.
Anything which decreases circulation on a chronic basis, while delivering numerous poisons throughout the body affects more than just aging. The brain & all of its functions will suffer long term affects from the decreased circulation & oxygen delivery. There are studies which demonstrate that long term tobacco use dulls thinking & IQ.This makes a lot of sense. The brain needs blood & oxygen to work. Studies show that infants born to mothers who smoked in pregnancy are smaller & not as bright.
As I've said before, the history of why hemp/marijuana was criminalized in the first place is very interesting & enlightening. It had little to do with its effects on folks who use it.
I am not an advocate for drug use.
I do not smoke-anything.
I have an occasional beer or glass of wine.
I have used pain killers only as prescribed for very short term use after a couple of surgeries.
We keep a drug testing kit in our house & our kids know we will use it on them if we suspect they have crossed that line.
I post the above as a disclaimer to some who like to claim that those of us who are against this so called war on drugs do so because we have a personal agenda at stake. We have been called everything from "pot-whiz kids" to the "pro-drug user crowd".
It is not a function of the government to protect us from our own stupidity.
Posted by eyfigueroa on August 26, 2008 at 12:40 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Anyone who would look to China as some sort of inspiration for a societal utopia should really take some time and READ. RESEARCH. READ AGAIN.
What you admire is only the very thin superficial mask of a utopian society. The Chinese do not have any "RIGHTS".
The centralized COMMUNIST government dictates EVERYTHING from what a child will become when they grow up (that is if the child is born since abortion and sterilization is mandated and physically forced upon their female citizens) to being able to follow/express religion views.
I could say how I'm still surprised by the lack of intellect many of the posters here gladly express under the guise of having a conservative or liberal viewpoint.
I could say that, but it would be mean.
So I won't.
Posted by Missing_Home on August 26, 2008 at 12:40 p.m. (Suggest removal)
"it is not a function of the government to protect us from our own stupidity"
I Totally Agree, we need to quit electing people that "Know what is best" and elect people that Do what we want.
Posted by Lovely_One on August 26, 2008 at 1:12 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Jane, that is where our dilemma comes in. If criminals admit that they cannot be rehabilitated, we are doomed.
And thank you for your condolences (along with everyone else that flooded my inbox...Lol). Yes, she was...is my cousin and she died a senseless death at the hands of some people that should have been behind bars as well. Now her 4 beautiful babies have to grow up without her. Thank God for family, they will not have to go into the "system" and will not have to be split up.
Posted by Lovely_One on August 26, 2008 at 1:37 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Jane, yes it is sickening, and I think Judge Deadra Jefferson (she is mentioned in the story and is also my cousin...yes, I have a huge family) will continue to put these people back in prison because she is genuinely tired of the mess that these people are causing. She has seen and heard people come before her (and other judges have as well) and claim to be totally rehabilitated and promise they won't repeat their behavior, only to be given that 2nd chance and commit the same crimes or worse.
I have personally sat in on parole hearings where these grown men cry and profess their love for God and beg for forgiveness from the people they have wronged only to get out and land back in prison in 2 year's time. It is a terrible thing. But, I have also seen those that have come out and never received as much as a speeding ticket. My uncle being one of them. He has been out of prison for over 10 years now and has been on the up and up every since. He is the type of person that gives hope that some...not all...but some of these people can be rehabilitated and are. But they have to want to do better for themselves, no one can force it on them. And there in lies another dilemma. Who is really serious about getting out of the crime business? And the beat goes on!
Posted by abitskeptical on August 26, 2008 at 1:44 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Ditto to what others said in response to the China/Olympics comment. My other post had gotten long enough before addressing that.
Believing anything that the Chinese present for the world to see is simply naive.
I did not see the article about the following online, but it was in the paper edition.
The Chinese child who was to sing the Chinese national anthem in the opening ceremonies was kept from singing in person because she was not considered pretty enough to present to the world.(I almost fell out of my chair when I first read this) She would not present the best image of China to the world according to the Chinese officials. So a "more attractive" child was in the spot light & did a lip synch of the other child's singing.
The singer's coach brought this to the attention of the media because he was outraged by this(bet his life is rosy about now).
There was a photo of both children. IMO they both were adorable & precious.
I imagine that this type of thing is just a tip of a very large& ugly iceberg where the Chinese government is concerned.
We can assume nothing about the people because we will not have an opportunity to know any truth that is "bad".
Human nature is human nature & I imagine that there are plenty of Chinese who struggle with addiction & "lack of self respect". Those things are afflictions of the human condition.
Posted by Perspective on August 26, 2008 at 1:54 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Any judge that lets someone violate probation (a gift that has been given to them) and lets them sty on probation or does not send them to jail is a coward and is playing up to his defense attorney buddies.
I think it is a lie that they are concerned about the costs of incarceration. If that is the truth then they are knowingly saying that my safety and that of my family has a price.
The judges are clearly the problem.........
Posted by Lovely_One on August 26, 2008 at 2:51 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Thomas, is there something wrong with Dee Dee having a thing for white men? Much of our family is white, so what?
Posted by mkris on August 26, 2008 at 3:25 p.m. (Suggest removal)
RE: have personally sat in on parole hearings where these grown men cry and profess their love for God and beg for forgiveness ...
Now there is the start of the problem.... Too much Bible thumping. Know how to know someone is lying? when they profess thier love for God, tell you they're saved, or "found Jesus". I never thought he was lost.
Posted by aircman on August 26, 2008 at 3:38 p.m. (Suggest removal)
South Carolina is still ranked 49th in education. We were told the Lottery would put an end to our school problems. We should go back to funding the schools the way it was before the Lottery (was S.C. not 49th before a lottery) A Prison lottery would be so much better. I believe you would see immediate results! At the very least,I could stop reading that some poor soul was killed by another who had a lengthy Criminal record!
My hats off to the Police who keep arresting the same people over and over again because our Politicians have no GUTS! If I were a Police Officer I would be frustrated too!!
Posted by Lovely_One on August 26, 2008 at 3:49 p.m. (Suggest removal)
mkris, exactly! The "I found Jesus" bit is very tired and there are people that buy it. I have a bridge to sell them when they are ready too!
Posted by GeecheeBoi84 on August 26, 2008 at 5 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Well now it's a lil easier to see why people opt to handle things on their own. If you call the police instead of killing the person yourself, that person MIGHT get caught, get paroled, and will prolly end up killing YOU. Nice Catch-22...
Posted by Dmoney on August 26, 2008 at 5:16 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Certain places like Canada have prisons designed to rehabilitate. Canada also has a low crime rate and less repeat offenders. maybe...just maybe because they rehabilitate prisoners. now certain criminals i don't think should see day light ever. thats child molestors, murderers, rapist or people who hurt the elderly.
Posted by JJRPAS on August 26, 2008 at 6:51 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Dmoney - Your comment is logical and makes sense. Very little in the SC Criminal Justice System uses common sense. Whatever nonsense that the public will "buy", like this proposed change, will be passed and the we'll continue to fail. Keep the non-violent offenders in jail longer and continue to provide plea bargains for the violent offenders. The problem has nothing to do with parole or probation. It has to do with the lack of proper prosecutions and therefore lesser sentences. Non-violent folks should be rehabilitated. Rapists, murders, child molesters need to be prosecuted and locked up until they are no longer a threat.
Posted by fyrefighter273 on August 26, 2008 at 7:24 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Seeing where this is going leads me to think most of society is uninformed. Like it or not we have a constitution which affords us a few rights, we elect judges that will side with those rights, all sorts of bottom feeders go to law school and will point out (for a price) how the rights of inmates are violated. Our constitution does not state the right to.......except for criminals. The answer is there vote, if a judge is too forgiving vote them out, know what laws the legislature is passing, e mail your reps to voice your concerns. I have been in a correctional facility for 20 years now (staff member) I am an upper level manager, we only do what we are directed to do by budgets, laws and mandates from the public. In 20 years of max, medium and minimum, I can only recall one rape, and most violence comes in from gangs or from inmates own actions. We have our hands tied, get involved then you get change! Apathy is a bit-h!
Posted by STREETLAW on August 26, 2008 at 8:36 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Thomas1776 a clear winner on this one.
Who was that sheriff out west who put the inmates in tents? Said if tents were good enough for our military in Iraq, damn well good enough for felons.
And I think he makes 'em wear pink underwear. If that doesn't stop sagging nothing will.
Posted by wonderdog on August 26, 2008 at 8:58 p.m. (Suggest removal)
"A young man in black hunched over on a bench outside the courtroom door, head hung low and right leg pumping like a piston. His girlfriend sat beside him, twirling a lock of hair around an ornately painted fingernail and staring into space. She seemed oblivious to the people pacing the worn blue carpet around her."
I don't know who is the bigger loser - the young man or his girlfriend. Very shallow gene pool there.
Posted by moonpie on August 26, 2008 at 9:28 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Jeff61 good point about China. Some of their thinking is totally wrong but you have to give them that, they're are disciplined and they don't put up with crap!
wpc3iop exactly! It's over as far as the liberal news media are concerned. Can't wait to see how far they say he is ahead after the convention. Then I can't wait to see the real margin he loses by in Nov! The Obamas are about as fake as they come.