City, fire union build closer ties
By Ron Menchaca , Glenn Smith
Once dismissed as a "boys club" of rabble-rousers, the Charleston firefighters union has grown dramatically in size and clout since last year's deadly Sofa Super Store blaze, forcing city and fire department officials to acknowledge its members' concerns.
As recently as two years ago, the local firefighters union could claim fewer than half of the department's eligible firefighters as members. The group's leaders struggled to recruit members, and its calls for more safety-oriented tactics were met with resistance from a fire department rooted in hard-charging, aggressive traditions.
But the June 18, 2007, fire that killed nine city firefighters drew fresh scrutiny to those methods, and the union has seen its membership rolls swell ever since. Though state law bars the city from bargaining with the union, nearly all of the department's 225 rank-and-file firefighters have joined, giving the organization greater leverage to push for change.
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City and fire department officials who once called the group a vocal minority now pledge cooperation with the organization and have promised that the city's new fire chief will share that commitment.
"We have an excellent relationship with the union," Charleston Mayor Joe Riley said. "I want to make sure the new chief shares the feeling I have of the importance of having an open door to the union and its members."
'Level playing field'
As the union enjoys improved relations with the city, the man who led the organization through the dark days following the sofa store fire is preparing to step down. Retired Charleston Fire Capt. Roger Yow, who has led the local union since 2003, said he has been looking to hand over the reins for some time but first wanted to make sure the organization was strong and headed in the right direction.
"I was determined after that happened that I wouldn't step down until I knew there was a level playing field, and I feel that's happened now,"
Yow, 55, said.
It is unclear who will succeed Yow when he leaves next month. He has endorsed the union's current vice president, Brian Conley, to become the next president, but other firefighters also are said to be considering a run for the top seat.
Retired Fire Capt. Ricky Koger, a longtime member, said the union's growth is welcome, but that the new president must find ways to motivate both long-standing members and new recruits to get more involved in pushing the union's agenda. Too often in the past, those duties fell on a select few while others stood in the shadows, unwilling to risk speaking out for fear of jeopardizing their careers, he said.
"They've got to participate. We've made inroads, but we need to build on that," he said. "They've got to use their voices."
Such reluctance was illustrated this week by the lack of new union members willing to speak with The Post and Courier about why they decided to join the organization. Yow and Conley couldn't find any new members willing to talk about their interest in the union.
Push for answers
City and local union officials never have been cozy until now. While some of the old animosity stemmed from a general suspicion toward organized labor in the South, local politics also soured the relationship.
South Carolina, a right-to-work state, is one of about a dozen states that prohibits governments from engaging in collective bargaining with public-employee unions. While the law does not bar city leaders from meeting with the union to discuss firefighters' concerns, city leaders long have cited such rules as limiting the discussions they can have with union representatives.
The Charleston Firefighters Association, which in the 1970s could claim a large majority of the department among its membership, lost much of its standing in the Riley era, and the union faded away around 1980. When firefighters moved to reform the dormant union in 1996, Riley scoffed at the notion. "I don't expect anything will materialize," he told the newspaper at the time.
Though the effort succeeded, Riley remained dismissive of the union, painting it as a minority voice with no firm status in the fire department. For its part, the union backed candidates who unsuccessfully tried to unseat Riley, further straining the relationship.
That changed abruptly on June 18, 2007. In the wake of the sofa store blaze, firefighters around the country began asking tough questions about how so many firefighters could have died.
Many local firefighters looked to the local union to push for answers, and Yow, a softspoken grandfather, suddenly found himself in the middle of competing agendas among the more aggressive state and national firefighters' unions, city leadership and his own members. For example, state and national union leaders quickly called for the ouster of Fire Chief Rusty Thomas, while many members of Yow's local group remained fiercely loyal to the chief. Yow had to choose his words and maintain a delicate balancing act.
Yow said the deaths of the nine firefighters, which included three union members, gave him strength to push for the truth. "Before we were talking about benefits and stuff like that. Now, we are talking about the deaths of nine guys. I think that's what built the fire in me. It was very personal."
'Different ball game'
Many of the union's criticisms and concerns about how the department fought the sofa store fire eventually were validated by outside investigations, including a scathing report from the city's own team of independent consultants. The Post and Courier's own investigation into what went wrong uncovered numerous shortcomings in the department's tactics, equipment and command structure.
Such findings, coupled with the retirement of Fire Chief Rusty Thomas in June, boosted the union's credibility within the department's ranks and brought in dozens of new members.
"That's what it took for these guys to see that things were going to change," Yow said. "You had a lot of Thomas followers — people I thought would never come in. It's a different ball game now."
Conley already has met with the department's interim chief and expects the union to maintain that dialogue once the new chief arrives. "The mayor assured us that the new department administration will have to work with us. It's also brought the department together. It's not a union versus nonunion thing anymore."
Even the national firefighters union, which lobbed incendiary statements about Riley and Thomas in the wake of the fire, has adopted a conciliatory tone and an optimistic outlook for the department's future.
Riley and the city seem genuinely committed to addressing the problems that led to the largest single loss of firefighter lives since 9/11, International Association of Firefighters President Harold Schaitberger said. "The mayor is sincere in wanting change," Schaitberger said. "He seems legitimately interested in creating a new fire department there."
Reach Ron Menchaca at rmenchaca@postandcourier.com or 937-5724. Reach Glenn Smith at gsmith@postandcourier.com or 937-5556.
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Paulie (anonymous) says...
This could very well set a great example of the positive aspects of a Union organization.
If this degree of involvement had been in place at the time of the fire, a different outcome would have been possible.
August 24, 2008 at 8:19 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
zekemire (anonymous) says...
UNIONS: THE SCOURGE OF A FREE SOCIETY!
August 24, 2008 at 8:19 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
jifdeng3 (anonymous) says...
The scourge of a free soceity? Try again. Do your reaserch and then come back and say something. The IAFF has done more to push for firefighter safety then anyone else. Who knows where we would be without them. Why are unions so bad? Because they push for fair treatment of workers? Better pay, better working conditions, better benefits? Give me a break.
August 24, 2008 at 8:40 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
CaptPete (anonymous) says...
To see the look on the faces of the troublemaker members being assigned to new shifts and new firehouses priceless.
August 24, 2008 at 9:04 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
dadsemt (anonymous) says...
The union came to the Tri-County area in the 1980's to fight for Firefighter safety, pay, and hours. When departments were going 24 hours on duty and 48 hours off duty because of Firefighter safety, departments in the tri-county area were resisting this. So the Firefighters Union was brought in and got the needed changes in place. Cities resisted and found ways to cut pay, using an overtime system that decreased pay the longer a Firefighter worked. It was a win/no win battle.
Then tri-county Firefighters fought for safer equipment, safer working conditions such as the Incident Command System, Hazardous Materials training, and other safety related programs. But once again Cities fought this. The bottom line was it cost to much time and money to do these things. As National Trends changes and the union stepped in to help make the job safer, most cities realized that they were right and it ended up saving money and lives.
Unfortunately, the City of Charleston never realized this. Rusty Thomas would not put Firefighter safety, proper incident command, and safer equipment in place. As he said that they did not need change, the system always worked. Well the system did not work. I lost 9 brothers in that fire. Had Rusty put a proper Incident Command system in place, we would have lost no one. Had Rusty accepted assistance from other experienced Fire Chiefs from other departments, there would have been less confusion, and more coordination.
So here's the bottom line, I am not a big fan of unions. I feel they have served their purpose and with the new labor laws, there is little need for them. However, the Firefighters Union pushes for Firefighter safety initiatives, pushes for National Firefighter qualifications, and works with Homeland Security and FEMA to establish National Firefighter Response Teams.
So if the Firefighters Union is in Charleston, then there must be a problem. If most all the firefighters are members, then there must be a problem. If the Union has to step in, just to make the City change in the interest of Firefighter Safety, then there must be a major problem. It takes years to train a Firefighter, and the rest of their career to keep training a Firefighter in new and improved safety procedures to lessen the Line Of Duty Deaths. It is also the responsibility of the Chief and his Staff to make safety a priority, and enforce the standards. Rusty Thomas did not and refused to do this, and the City let him.
So, the IAFF union is needed, is helping, and is supporting who they need to, The City of Charleston Firefighters. It is just shame that it took 9 of my brothers to bring this about. I am not a member of the union as I am a past paid Firefighter and now am a Volunteer Firefighter. So please don't judge the union without knowing why they were invited here. That's right, they were invited here, and they did not come in on their own. So there must be something to this if they were invited.
August 24, 2008 at 9:30 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
dadsemt (anonymous) says...
CaptPete,
Are you stupid? Do you not care about safety? Oh, that right, 200 years of tradition unimpeded by progress! Way to go Capt! You need to retire also before you get someone killed.
August 24, 2008 at 9:33 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
flygirl06 (anonymous) says...
UNION'S are a good thing. They represent the workers who want a fair wage and safe working enviroment. Our plant had SOOOOOOOOO many safety violations(the company failed to report them), it wasn't until we became UNION that OSHA was FINALLY brought in. They were on site for 4 days! Now the company is forced by law to provide a safe working place. You'd think they would want to provide that anyways but it's all about saving the money, at the expense of the workers! This state provides a cloak for greedy businesses.....all the way up the food chain.
August 24, 2008 at 11:18 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
JF (anonymous) says...
Even though I am not a big supporter of Unions, here is a case where incompetent leadership demonstrated a need for a union to push the Mayor for safer conditions, modern equipment, and modern standards for the CFD. Too bad the Mayor wouldn't listen to the Union's numerous warnings a long time ago, when they called for changes.
August 24, 2008 at 11:42 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
newbattleaxe (anonymous) says...
Well said, JF and dadsemt (first post)!
August 24, 2008 at 12:02 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
firefightersforthetruth (anonymous) says...
CaptPete
As I remember it Daddy Thomas tried to can you years ago. You hated the Thomas family. You were a poor mechanic, and an even poorer firefighter. You refused to train when you came to a company and worked on your model cars. Then at every opportunity you were willing to rat on anyone. You are a dangerous Man who only made Captain because you and
Rusty became butt buddies after your wife died. I do not believe you can cut it in a progressive dept. The new Chief will weed out those like you , with the help of the Union. You are also a bigot and love to call blacks "BOY". PEOPLE LIKE YOU ARE REASON NINE MEN ARE DEAD! You are a disgrace to the CFD. When you leave take Shriver with you. THE GOOD OLD BOY SYSTEM IS DEAD ALONG WITH NINE OF THE BEST FIREFIGHTERS IN THE CFD. God Bless my 9 brothers who were sacrificed because of idiots like you.
August 24, 2008 at 12:33 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
tc1 (anonymous) says...
After doing some good unions eventually become the new food chan. Same ones on the bottom, now hostage to the union bosses who live as well as managment, just a new top of the chain.
HOWEVER, unions can only exist because of really bad management. So IMO management you are the source of the problem, unions are the result!
August 24, 2008 at 1:04 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
jadmom (anonymous) says...
captpete, sounds like you're definitely the minority now!
August 24, 2008 at 2:38 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
jeff61 (anonymous) says...
Sounds like firefighter has your number Captpete
August 24, 2008 at 4:21 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
gmc1 (anonymous) says...
City and Firefighters Union build closer ties.
Isn't that sweet? How about a group hug? I'm feeling the love here.
August 24, 2008 at 5:05 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
firefightersforthetruth (anonymous) says...
Uneducated idiots like CaptPete do not know how to respond when knowledgeable people challenge them. I guess the next thing he will tell us is the Routley Panel have no idea what they are talking about. Rusty's last effort at intimidation, as CaptPete is so proud of, went unchallenged by the union because Joe chose to let it happen. As I see it Joe is as much at fault here in the death of those 9 brave men, as Rusty. Joe is a little man, and so is CaptPete. Truth will find it's way forward in the near future. Read the Line of Duty report, just release by the national firefighters ass.. Chiefs are being tried in court now for criminal neglect because of not following national standards. Rusty your days and troubles are not over and that new pick up truck that you received is only to soften the blow that is about to come.
CaptPete I want to see the look on your face when they read the verdict in court to your great chief. PRICELESS!!!
Any firefighter having to work for this moron needs to watch their back! He will get you hurt or killed! As I remember when you first came into a company you told us you already new every thing you need to know. First fire you got you did not even know how to stretch a 1 and half line off the pumper. In the fire service the old saying goes " A MAN WHO TELLS YOU HE KNOWS EVERY THING THERE IS TO KNOW IS A DANGEROUS MAN"! CASE CLOSE! YOU ARE A DANGEROUS MAN!
August 24, 2008 at 8:30 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Carolina_Politics (anonymous) says...
Who can really blame them? I'm surprised there are a few that are still holding out membership after last year's disaster.
Generally, I am not very supportive of unions. I think many of them are unnecessary and exist only to serve accumulating more wealth for the union itself rather than the people it is supposed to represent. Additionally, they have a long history of corruption and greed which have been a top factors in the loss of competition of American goods and services on the international stage destroying industry in this country and sending labor overseas.
However, they do have positive influences and one of those is assuring workplace safety and aiding in shaping such policy. In the case of Charleston, the city failed in its duty and had the union been more of a bargaining power a year ago perhaps this tragedy would have been avoided. In that same respect, I'm not entirely certain a union is still needed in Charleston because I imagine the city will be wanting to avoid any future embarrassing tragedies such as last summer's, but I can't blame any one of those guys for signing up. I'd probably do the same.
http://www.carolinapoliticsonline.com...
August 24, 2008 at 9:54 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
CaptPete (anonymous) says...
It's nice to know one has many friends.
August 24, 2008 at 10:19 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
firefightersforthetruth (anonymous) says...
You think it is a joke just like all your stupid games! Men are dead! They will never have another chance! You attitude is what makes you such a looser! They are dead because of an attitude just like yours! You and Rusty deserve each other! May god take vengeance's on you both! You get from life what you put into it and your day is near! Only I want be the one to bring it on you! You have brought it on yourself! Gods power is swift and he never forgets! Just as he knows the truth about what really happened, he knows the darkness in your heart! Laugh while you can! Enjoy your small pleasures, for in the end people like you will be seen for what you really are! Small, petty, ignorant clowns! Laugh bozo! Laugh! The Joke is you and God is not laughing!
August 24, 2008 at 11:12 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
CaptPete (anonymous) says...
It's seems you are the one upset. Come on by and have shrimp and crab cakes. Maybe you won't be so hard on yourself. Lighten up a little.
August 25, 2008 at 1:05 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
cplpunishment (anonymous) says...
Go to the other website and argue to that fat guy on hourly....maybe he will give you some of his wisdom....he is smarter than everyone around...just listen to him and he will tell you! Maybe CaptPete will get sick off of his crab cakes and shrimp!!! Go give the to your best friend.....I am sure he is bored!
August 25, 2008 at 8:37 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
NIMS800Chief (anonymous) says...
In these times, the International Association of Fire Chiefs have joined forces with the International Association of Firefighters and the relationship is as solid as ever. The main goal is to assure firefighter safety to comply with national standards. Any fire chief or politician who does not embrace the union (who BTW represent 90 to 95% of the fire service organization body) is running up a waterfall without a paddle. Fire chiefs and politicians have been unseated when they create a hostile work environment. The bottom line is that we are all people with common goals and objectives. As a fire chief, we have a solid relationship with the union and have joined forces to develop great safety innovations and techniques that usually do not cost the taxpayer a dime. Numerous grants have been awarded to departments through the cooperation between the management and union. This is a win-win for CFD. You will get a fire chief that will mend fences and do not bring in a personal agenda against any member.
God Bless the souls of the CFD 9 and my prayers go to the families and members during these times.
August 25, 2008 at 9:15 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
NIMS800Chief (anonymous) says...
Guys & Gals just a quick not about blogs. There are folks who like to get into the crawl of your soul. The more anger you write, the more fuel to the collective fire. Truth will be told in the end whatever the circumstances may be. This is a time to heal and getting ready for new leadership that will assure mending fences. It will be a bumpy road so do not get me wrong....however, it is a road worth the travel.
The report from my friend and collegue Roger Youtley has opened discussion. This is a report for all fire service agencies and their firefighters to learn from. Pointing fingers and disparaging one another will not correct the past, it will only improve the future of how we run our emergencies and daily operations at each firehouse.
August 25, 2008 at 9:25 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
firefightersforthetruth (anonymous) says...
CaptPete you are right, I am upset! That will cure nothing! I will take you up on dinner but not until I can serve you some CROW! NIMS800CHIEF, Thank you! sometimes these kind of things just get under my skin. Nothing will change what happened on 6-18-07. People like CaptPete will wake up tomorrow the same as they did yesterday. It has been proven over the last year that these folks can not see beyond their own ignorance, because if they were going to understand they would have already done so.
GOD BLESS THE 9 BROTHERS LOST!
August 25, 2008 at 11:24 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
iceman1978 (anonymous) says...
I don't have any fire fighters in my family but a good many of my relatives are educators, professors or doctors. From my knowledge of teacher's unions I can say that they will work to improve safety conditions, wage levels, vacation and personal leave and will help with job security. When you've worked with a union and then worked without a union you begin to understand the difference they can make. Remember Brentwood? If they had an effective teacher's union it never would have gone that far. Same story with the Charleston Fire Department. When their concerns went un-noticed they could have called a strike until the appropriate changes were made. Instead it's taken the death of nine firemen and the subsequent emotional ruin upon their families for people to take safety seriously.
Why is this? The lack of preventative safety measures seems to be a pattern in history. It took the deaths of the workers at the Triangle Factory for us to take a good look at building codes. It took the deaths of thousands in Galveston to take hurricane safety seriously. It took the publishing of Upton Sinclair's 'The Jungle' before we realized that food safety wasn't something to be taken lightly. It took the deaths of 1,500+ on the Titanic for people to wonder if maybe having enough lifeboats was a good idea after all. Finally, it took Sept 11th for us to realize that these people mean business.
A union isn't always the end-all solution but overall they work for the better of those who can't stand alone. Trust me, being completely at the mercy of the administration is not a good thing, as the Sofa Super Store tragedy has shown us. The concerns of the fire department obviously fell on deaf ears. This tragedy was avoidable if you ask me.
August 25, 2008 at 4:12 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
MARK (anonymous) says...
CAPT. PETE THE ONE WHO CRIED TO THE CHIEF'S OFFICE THAT SOMEONE HAD THERE CAR ON THE FRONT LAWN WITH FOR SALE SIGNS ON IT. TAKE CARE OF YOU OWN STATION AND KEEP YOU NOSE OUT OF OTHER CAPTIANS STATION.. RONNY CAN'T HELP YOU WHEN THE NEW CHIEF COMES IN. DID YOU FIGURE OUT HOW TO USE THE 5" HOSE YET.
August 26, 2008 at 11:02 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
CaptPete (anonymous) says...
Son you know Firehouses are City Property not car lots. The Chief warned you folks about that since the councilmen came around. The next thing you know you'll be having a bake sale out front.
August 26, 2008 at 11:18 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
ProudIAFFMember (anonymous) says...
Captpete
I have never heard such reactionary drivel in all my life.
Have you no conception of teamwork?
I am a long time career firefighter and union leader, as such I find it hard to believe you work in the same job I do, Where we depend on each other, both on the fireground AND in our battles with management.
August 27, 2008 at 6:24 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
bootlicked (anonymous) says...
If this is the same Pete I know ; what would you rather be buying at a fire station? Oh I remember (butch) wasn't you trying to buy something and they threw a wrench in your plans? What a pitiful excuse for a man. Wasn't you a union member? Oh yeah you are probably one of those that had to quit to make a promotion.
September 7, 2008 at 10:16 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
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