How hot is too hot for carriage horses?
Official thermometer high above steamy streets decides
By Doug Pardue
Charleston's carriage tour horses and mules got a break from the searing heat Wednesday when the city's official thermometer hit 98 degrees and the city ordered them back to their stables for the first time this year.
The Post and Courier
Deanne Pace holds her own thermometer as she stands on Anson Street in downtown Charleston on Wednesday. The official city thermometer is located at the South Carolina Sea Grant Consortium's office on Calhoun Street.
Deanne Pace said the animals should have been pulled out of the heat a lot sooner Wednesday and on a lot more days because the city's official thermometer is not on the hot streets where the animals do most of their work. To prove her point, the Johns Island silversmith bought a new thermometer and took it on Tuesday to the corner of North Market and Church streets near where most of the carriage tours operate and stable their horses and mules.
At 3:45 that afternoon, her new temperature gauge read a sweat-beading 106 degrees. She looked around and noticed that several horses pulling tour carriages still clomped along the steamy streets loaded with tourists. Others stood ready to take on more. So, she said, she walked over to a city animal services officer near the stables and inquired. He assured her that the temperature was below the official 98-degree cutoff and showed her the official reading, which came in just under 93 degrees, she said.
So where exactly is the official thermometer anyway?
City code specifies that:
Previous stories
Horses won't have to work on dog days, published 05/30/03
Turning up the heat, published 07/28/06
"The official thermometer used for determining the temperature and the heat index shall be located at the South Carolina Sea Grant Consortium located at 287 Meeting Street."
Inside the Sea Grant Consortium the receptionist confessed that she had never heard of the official thermometer, but offered that she was new and went to another worker to ask. That person also didn't know and took the question to Executive Director Richard DeVoe, who replied, "Really?"
Offered a look at a copy of the pertinent section of city code, he responded "We've never been aware."
So just where is the official thermometer?
DeVoe said maybe what the city has in mind is the little weather monitoring station at 113 Calhoun Street where the Sea Grant Consortium keeps another office. That station monitors for the on-line weather site, WeatherBug.
At 113 Calhoun, next door to Buist Academy, Susannah Sheldon with the Sea Grant Consortium agreed to show where the official thermometer sits.
How hot is it?
She spiraled up three, narrow, squeaky floors of wooden steps to the attic. There rested a bunch of electronic gadgets.
But where is the actual official thermometer?
She walked back down the stairs, made a phone call to find out, walked outside and looked up at the roof. There, on a pole several feet atop the roof's peak, perched the city's official thermometer.
That's up above many of the second-and third-floor piazzas where Charlestonians historically retreat to enjoy cooling sea breezes and escape the heat below on the streets.
This discovery made Pace even more upset. "This is where the horses are," she said. She stood in the middle of Anson Street outside several of the carriage tour stables, shortly after the city put a halt to the tours early Wednesday afternoon.
Watchdog series
The official thermometer reached slightly above 99 degrees about 2:30 p.m. before an afternoon thunderstorm sent the mercury into the low 80s and the horses back to work. But as Pace stood on Anson Street about 3 p.m. her thermometer registered 109 degrees at horse height.
"Why would you take it anywhere else?" she asked of the temperature.
Mary Margaret Baker, tourism management coordinator for the city, said the WeatherBug reading was picked a few years ago after lengthy work by a study committee. The committee felt the WeatherBug site offered a better reading of the actual, ambient temperature instead of readings at street level which could be affected by various things and change by location. And she said the online site is accessible to anyone.
U.S. Weather Service meteorologist Joe Calderone said the service's downtown monitor is near the harbor and tends to read lower than the temperature on the streets. The service recorded a temperature of 94 degrees Wednesday at Waterfront Park, 5 degrees off the record set in 1956. The temperature at the airport hit a record 100 degrees.
But, Calderone said, the best reading for what people experience should be taken from about 6 feet above the ground. Readings made from higher sites, such as the service's airport thermometer, which is mounted 30 feet high, reduce the influence of radiated heat off the ground, "the urban heat island."
At Old South Carriage Co., a big French Percheron named Dick rested in the shade of the stable still hitched and ready to go when the weather cooled. He got plenty of water, a couple of spray-downs and a fan. Driver Becky Anton said they carefully watch the big animals, take their body temperature after each one-hour tour and rest them between tours.
Maria Frank and her family from Myrtle Beach walked up to see if they could take a carriage tour but were told the heat put a temporary stop to the rides. Standing in the sun near where Pace still held her thermometer reading 109 degrees, Frank said.
"We understand."
E-mail this story
Printer-friendly version
Comments
meesta_challie (anonymous) says...
I agree with Ms. Pace.
Measure the temperature where the horses actually work.
August 7, 2008 at 1:58 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
letstakeawalk (anonymous) says...
Another good example of the City either not being aware or not enforcing its own laws. Stop trying to blame the Carriage industry- they have shown that they are willing to do what the City asks of them. The fault is obviously with the City.
"Offered a look at a copy of the pertinent section of city code, he [Sea Grant Consortium Executive Director Richard DeVoe] responded "We've never been aware.""
Who's job is it to be aware?
"The official thermometer used for determining the temperature and the heat index shall be located at the South Carolina Sea Grant Consortium located at 287 Meeting Street."
The answer is clear. The City ignores the codes it has created, or employs individuals who are negligent in their duties.
"At Old South Carriage Co., a big French Percheron named Dick rested in the shade of the stable still hitched and ready to go when the weather cooled. He got plenty of water, a couple of spray-downs and a fan. Driver Becky Anton said they carefully watch the big animals, take their body temperature after each one-hour tour and rest them between tours."
The carriage companies submit and comply with every regulation the City lays upon them. They are humane, caring, and protective of the animals in their charge.
August 7, 2008 at 2:42 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
ForPnC (anonymous) says...
When I first saw these horses working for a living I was mad as hell. Then I saw how well they're taken of and that these carriage companies do take care of the horses. They do, for the most part, comply with the codes that the city gives them. I think some of those codes are out-of-date.
That thermometer needs to placed where the horses are. It's too hot for them right now.
August 7, 2008 at 3:39 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
beth1070 (anonymous) says...
Why on earth would an "official thermometer" be placed so high up where it catches the breeze and obviously will NOT give an accurate reading of what horses (and people) experience on the street. That's about the dumbest thing I have ever heard! Since the city (and its employees) are not competent enough to monitor temperature, the carriage companies should have their own thermometer at street level to gauge the conditions for the horses.
August 7, 2008 at 5:03 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Neponset (anonymous) says...
First I will say that I don't know horse hockie (sp?) about the care of horses, but will add my two cents anyway.
1. Agree that the weather station output is not representative of the conditions where the horses stand or work. I looked up some guide lines for the placement of these stations and one of them is :the station should be 50 feet away from pavement. But, I think it can be use, so long as folks realize that it reads low, but is proportional.
2. I am impressed that the horses internal temp. is checked after each tour and assume if temp. is too high, corrective action would be taken.
August 7, 2008 at 5:15 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Reader (anonymous) says...
Beth1070 wrote, "Why on earth would an 'official thermometer' be placed so high up where it catches the breeze and obviously will NOT give an accurate reading of what horses (and people) experience on the street. That's about the dumbest thing I have ever heard!"
I'm no Rob Fowler, but I think you are totally wrong about measuring air temperature. A breeze does absolutely nothing to lower the ACTUAL temperature. Circulating air makes someone FEEL cooler because the air that passes over one's skin dries moisture on the skin (namely, sweat) and that reaction makes the person FEEL cooler. This is the prinicple at play when discussing the wind chill effect. It is also why two un-air conditioned rooms - one with and one without a ceiling fan - would still have the same temperature reading according to a thermometer placed in the rooms. Since a thermometer does not "feel" anything, it merely records the ACTUAL air temperature.
The point of this is simply that I think you are completely off-base with your comment about recording the temperature in a breezy location being the dumbest thing ever.
As for the best location at which to record the temperature, I would say that Broad St. would be better. After all, when a horse is in the Market area, it is generally standing around doing nothing. The horse is actually WORKING when it is pulling the carriages around, and most of that is further downtown.
August 7, 2008 at 6:11 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
eatmorecollards (anonymous) says...
I say hook Joe Riley up and let him pull those fat yankees all over Charleston.
August 7, 2008 at 6:12 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
lemonhead (anonymous) says...
welll seems they worry more about the horse then humans.. on a very hot day why arent they worried about all the humans out working in the heat they have a warning for high heat yet workers still make their employees work in it,i like animals but feel people should worry more about other humans then animals,if they think is to hot for them,,why shouldnt it be to hot for men
August 7, 2008 at 6:16 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Neponset (anonymous) says...
eatmore..
I like your idea, perhaps he could do a better job than he is doing managing Charleston.
August 7, 2008 at 6:19 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
moonpie (anonymous) says...
E_M_C great idea!
You know you can bet that the stable owners are better equipped to watch this than some city slacky. You thing they want to kill their animals they have so much invested in? Anyone bought a horse lately?
But hey what freaking TOURIST wants to take a stroll in 100 degree heat! Never mind the horses! Of course I did see someone outside YESTERDAY in a sweater!
August 7, 2008 at 6:36 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
shoelaces (anonymous) says...
These carriages take several different routes. Maybe they should place thermometers along the routes and take different readings.
Having recently gone on a field trip I can tell you that these stable hands work very hard to ensure the health and safety of these animals. Hopefully, this will continue and no horses will suffer needlessly.
August 7, 2008 at 7:34 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Paul (anonymous) says...
What about actually picketing the area where the horses are being tortured? Peacefull protests are legal and get far more action than typing words in a Comment section of an online news site that the "elected" officials ignore ...
August 7, 2008 at 7:37 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
512c (anonymous) says...
These poor horses are falling over about once a year and dying in front of tourist. The carriage people take care of them, but most of them are aged horses, the Clydesdales' especially.
I have a friend that works with the mules and says they're far more reliable.
But still, they should take a break.
August 7, 2008 at 7:43 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
willie08 (anonymous) says...
I have no problem yelling at the carriage companies when they're pulling tourists in July!
Yeah, I'm that crazy local who yells, 'YOU'RE KILLING THE HORSES!!!'
I DON'T CARE HOW MUCH MONEY THEY MAKE YOU, HORSES BELONG IN PASTURES, NOT CITIES.
August 7, 2008 at 7:54 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
DoaMM (anonymous) says...
Screw the horses...How 'bout letting us get off work while it's so dang hot?! That'll take care of the horses too...
August 7, 2008 at 7:58 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
fred_durst (anonymous) says...
Probably getting off the specific topic of the thread but,
"Reader" telling Beth1070 she is totally wrong is a little over the top since this isn't a science forum. In layman's terms you make an attempt to describe thermodynamic principles and definitions such as "dry bulb temperature", "wet bulb temperature" and other effects that relate to the temperature of a given body such as heat transfer due to convection and radiation (the sun). I would say you're way off base. While it is true a breeze across a thermometer will not directly change its reading, that is not the same as saying a breeze will not effect the temperature that a given body will see when it is placed in close proximity of a black tar street.
Her point was that the temperature above the city is not what it is on the street where the horses work. The measured temperature at the street level will be higher than 30 feet above the street.
August 7, 2008 at 8:04 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
berthelot (anonymous) says...
Let me start by saying that I hate these businesses, partly because of the horses working in the heat but mostly because they wreak havoc on the traffic downtown. It is ridiculous. I have searched the City Municipal Code and have found nothing restricting the use of horse & carriage. This leads me to believe that we are free to use a horse and carriage as our own personal transportation.
In this economy with gas prices skyrocketing, I would like to get a stage coach (complete with a driver wearing a top hat) and take it all over downtown. Could they stop me?
August 7, 2008 at 8:19 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Reader (anonymous) says...
Fred_Durst wrote, "[T]hat is not the same as saying a breeze will not effect the temperature that a given body will see when it is placed in close proximity of a black tar street."
Actually, it is. A breeze DOES NOT affect the temperature that a given body will see whether it is close to the street or not. Admittedly, you are more likely to see higher temperatures immediatley above asphalt than you are on the roof of a building because the asphalt retains heat and radiates it back. But that was NOT what Beth1070 said.
Besides, on the streets of Charleston, you also have the chance to enjoy the shade of the trees - which you cannot enjoy on the rooftops. And, unlike breezes, shade DOES affect the actual temperature.
August 7, 2008 at 8:35 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Neponset (anonymous) says...
Cold Beer
Happy to see you back in the saddle again. Yesterday must have been a record for comments on an article. Question: Do you think this horse can be ridden to a new record?
August 7, 2008 at 8:36 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
RTC (anonymous) says...
I do feel for the horses, but I feel worse for all of the people whose jobs keep them out in this heat all day.
I was near Tanger Outlet yesterday, and those fools from Cici's pizza had a poor employee walking down that hot road with a stupid sign around their neck. If people don't know about Cicis's buffet by now then they haven't gotten out much.
Look at those in construction, landscaping, etc. It's too hot out there for any form of life right now.
August 7, 2008 at 8:42 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
abitskeptical (anonymous) says...
Remember though, wild horses roaming the plains are not pulling a load of obese tourists around in that >100 degree heat.
I do agree that a healthy horse is a robust animal that can tolerate the high temps if they have been conditioned to it & have plenty of H2O & recoup time.
When we were 1st married my husband & I lived in an apartment on Bedon's Alley downtown & the carriages were part of the scenery. Sometimes it was inconvenient & annoying, but I think if they suddenly stopped business, I would have missed hearing that familiar clip clop coming down the street.
August 7, 2008 at 8:52 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
DoaMM (anonymous) says...
ASHLEY_COOPER wrote:
"They really need to put in-dwelling catheters on those horses to deal of the urine issue."
You wanna pay for the vet bills? In-dwelling catheters require replacement on a schedule and cause infections if not properly taken care of. They are, by no means, an answer to the urine problem and never considered for permanent use, even in humans.
August 7, 2008 at 8:52 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
MsPiggy (anonymous) says...
Oh my gosh, Gasdsen!
"Its sooooo hot that when a horse dumps 5 gallons of piss on the asphalt it immidately evaporates and turns into a pee-pee mist for everyone's breathing pleasure."
That was so daMn funny!!!!!
I personally don't know why anyone in their right mind would WANT to take a carriage tour in the dog days of summer. In fact, I don't know why anybody would want to go downtown in this heat. You don't catch me in that area unless its early spring or late fall.
You just get all sweaty, wet and nasty...Your hair sticks to the back of your neck and are miserable. Not to mention HOT POO IN THE SUN smells way worse than regular poo in the cold. Ugh. Poor horses. Give em' a break, will ya?
I agree with whoever said to hook Riley's butt up to a carriage. HAHA! Yall are great.
August 7, 2008 at 9 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
drp7773 (anonymous) says...
my god these are horses, the same ones that hauled full wagon trains with families on board across the praries, the ones that chased cattle heards that went wild for a day, the ones that used to haul ice and food and milk carriges , also was used for taxi's. I really believe they can handle walking slowly around the city hauling a carriage and some people..and on top of that they get breaks during the day and they even go back to the barn. Lighten up folks
August 7, 2008 at 9:09 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Neponset (anonymous) says...
I think the bottom line is that most folks care about the animals that surround them and want them to be cared for, unlike the other article today where three men are charged with animal neglect. I think these horses are reasonably well cared for. Unfortunately, the day of the horse has pasted and there are four routes open to them: racing, private pet, tourist draft work and the cannery. Which do you choose?
August 7, 2008 at 9:13 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Larz13 (anonymous) says...
The one time I took a carriage ride downtown, the guide had a phony southern accent and after the tour I asked him where he was from and he said--Pennsylvania!
I said, "Me too, but I don't talk with a twang covering up a Philly accent".
August 7, 2008 at 9:20 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
chucktowncolie (anonymous) says...
I worked in the carriage industry in the early - mid 90's. Things were different (and more in line with this article) back then. The "official temperature" was monitored every fifteen minutes by animal control in the lawn of the First Baptist High School gym near the intersection of Hayne and Church street. There was a metal box with a thermometer in it (the metal box was to protect the thermometer from the "heat index" so it would show the actual temperature). The carriage industry was shut down more frequently. I feel this system should be put back in to place after reading this article. I no longer work in the industry, and have enough time seperation to view this as an "outsider". I do know this, the horses that work in this city are well monitored and cared for by every barn in the city. They are also extremely powerful, and pulling the carriages loaded with tourists is "easy" in terms of the load they are pulling- think adult pulling a wagon with a two year old around the block. I've had a few get excited about something when I used to drive, and they can pretty much decimate a carriage in just a matter of seconds with the amount of power they have. I'm not going to get in philosophical debates about whether or not the job is right or wrong because I've seen what they do when they aren't pulling carriages. They work on farms pulling plows or are sold at auction to dogfood companies (I'm not kidding about the last one) or horse lovers. The carriage companies have the resources to take better care of these horses than your impoverished farmer (can't afford a tractor or fuel) can. Also, in this day and age of "Green living" this is one of the better ways to see the city. There are fat tourists on there because they can't physically manage to take a walking tour.
In short. Move the thermometer back to where it was. Take readings near the street, carriage companies, keep doing what your doing, I know how much the stable hands love the horses, and they can run @ 20 miles per hour with a loaded carriage when they are freaked out, it's not physically difficult for the horses (in terms of weight).
August 7, 2008 at 9:22 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Tammie (anonymous) says...
PETA hasn't been all over this yet?
August 7, 2008 at 9:56 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
MindBath (anonymous) says...
Posted by lemonhead on August 7, 2008 at 6:16 a.m.
welll seems they worry more about the horse then humans.. on a very hot day why arent they worried about all the humans out working in the heat they have a warning for high heat yet workers still make their employees work in it,i like animals but feel people should worry more about other humans then animals,if they think is to hot for them,,why shouldnt it be to hot for men
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Look, the workers need the money. The horses don't. I say let them have the day off and the workers can decide for themselves if they need to work or not.
I noticed a theme today of insecure people afraid that animals (or trees) will be considered more important than themselves. These horses are slaves, their owners make money off of them. The horses cannot speak up for themselves. Thus, an authority may sometimes need to tell them when it is too hot to work the slaves.
Relax, we are still the top of the food chain.
August 7, 2008 at 9:59 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
iceman1978 (anonymous) says...
Posted by eatmorecollards on August 7, 2008 at 6:12 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I say hook Joe Riley up and let him pull those fat yankees all over Charleston.
----------
Yes!!! *S*
When I was house sitting for a couple that has dogs I would only let the dogs out for a few minutes at a time when it was hot like this. If they wanted to stay outside longer they had to wait until dark. I can't imagine what those poor horses must be going through. That's animal abuse to work them in this heat.
August 7, 2008 at 10:18 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
willbillbedamned (anonymous) says...
I belong to PETA (People Eating Tasty Animals) and I can tell you we have NO interest in the horses.
August 7, 2008 at 10:34 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
fred_durst (anonymous) says...
Hey Reader - Again the point is that the temperature above the city is not the same as it is near the street where the horses are.
And yes a breeze can have a signifigant impact on the temperature that a body will see. Radiation is not the only form of heat transfer. Convection will have a signifigant impact. Thats why a fan is blowing accross the electronics of the computer you are using right now.
August 7, 2008 at 10:52 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
IslandGirl83 (anonymous) says...
SERIOUSLY PEOPLE!! I grew up on a farm raising Percherons and pulling these carriages is nothing to these horses. The heat does affect them, but if you seriously think that pulling people in those carts is hard for them then you are nuts. Those horses are REALLY REALLY strong.
You should go to the fair in columbia every year and watch the draft horse show. It is usually the 3rd weekend in Oct.
August 7, 2008 at 11:01 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Tammie (anonymous) says...
Lmao @ WillBill!! I wasn't referring to YOUR branch..(although I am a member myself)...when's our next meeting again at Smokey Bones? ;-)
August 7, 2008 at 11:02 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
IslandGirl83 (anonymous) says...
But yes without getting in to thermo dynamics the thermometer should be moved. sounds like a lot of "that is not my job" is going on.
August 7, 2008 at 11:03 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
icecoldbeer (anonymous) says...
First off let me start off by insulting the vast majority of ya....Y'all are idiots!!!
proff
example 1...There are NO, let me repeat NO Clydesdales in the city... there are percheron's, belguin, suffix punch, mules and a couple of mutts that the mule compnay uses
example 2....most of the barns/stables are certified by PETA as cruel free...So yes PETA is envolved and horse meat is very gamey
example 3...mississippi delta... do you have any idea the heat & humidty there? cuz that is where most of these working horses come from...comeing to the city for retirement. carriage tours are great exercise for these horses that have a great mass of muscles..
example 4..historic city....Charleston's historic district is the second largest in the world (Rome,Italy being number 1)..in the world people...We try to preserve so much here..what is wrong when it takes you 5 more minutes to get somewhere..i get stuck behind school busses that slow me down, but i dont rant and moan for them to pull the school busses of the streets. The carriage industry is one of the oldest industries that is still legal today (they had to ruin things and take away all the whore houses that made rainbow row so much more fun) so slow your life down...enjoy what the city has to offer or God forbid walk somewhere last time i checked there are no carriage tours on the side walk
I apologize for the non-idiots, but to be honest those seem to be to relevant around here...
August 7, 2008 at 11:28 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mkris (anonymous) says...
Its all about profit for the Carriage companies. So a horse dies --- not before making lots of money off the fat tourists.
If they really cared about the horses, the city would not need to enact a law to monitor the temp. THe carriage companies would do it themselves and take the horses off the street when it became too hot. Does anyone see the companies taking a temp reading "street level"? NAWWWWWW
August 7, 2008 at 12:15 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
grannyofsix (anonymous) says...
I havent been to Downtown Chas in 4 years
My fav place to go now is Savanna river walk
August 7, 2008 at 12:16 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Neponset (anonymous) says...
mkris
The carriage companies take the temp. - anal after each tour. I believe this was cover in previous posts - pay attention - if you can't keep up take notes.
August 7, 2008 at 12:25 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
letstakeawalk (anonymous) says...
mkris - RTFA. There are thermometers all around the stables and barns on Anson Street, and the horses and mules are closely monitored. It's the "Official Thermometer" that is not being properly monitored/maintained.
"Driver Becky Anton said they carefully watch the big animals, take their body temperature after each one-hour tour and rest them between tours."
icecoldbeer - Thanks for your rational and reasoned post. I don't understand why people think Downtown streets should flow at speeds higher than 15-25 mph (the posted limits on most streets). Aside from the Carriages, there are children playing, tourists trying to cross streets, and drunk lawyers trying to stumble out of the bars... give them all a chance, will ya?
IMHO, the sound of the horses' hooves is much more pleasant than that of reving engines and the smell of manure is sweeter than diesel truck exhaust.
August 7, 2008 at 12:36 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Neponset (anonymous) says...
let..
Like the part about lawyers.
August 7, 2008 at 12:41 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Neponset (anonymous) says...
Cold Beer
Very good -you have a mind for this stuff.
August 7, 2008 at 1:07 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
eatmorecollards (anonymous) says...
Seriously folks, what I would be more concerned about is the horses hoofs. The poor gentle creatures are forced to tramp around for hours at a time on asphalt so hot eggs will fry on it. If it will cook a egg it can't be good for thier hoofs and must be very painful for them day after day. I know they are shod, but that steel has to get hot and transfer the heat up into thier tissues. I think it would be better to take the temperature of the asphalt and not let them walk on it when it reaches those high temps.
August 7, 2008 at 1:19 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Neponset (anonymous) says...
eatmore..
I don't know if it was adopted, but the following was proposed:
"Rubber or elastomer shoes with reflective ankle cuffs on all four legs"
(found this in one of the links in the article)
August 7, 2008 at 1:32 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
10216340 (anonymous) says...
Thanks for the information and great post icecoldbeer.
August 7, 2008 at 1:46 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
dogwoodroad (anonymous) says...
wow...it's obviously a slow news day...but in the interest of the article...it's way too hot for anyone to be outside, much less a horse pulling a bunch of tourists in a carriage!!! that's why I'm not at the pool for my break from school...
August 7, 2008 at 2:03 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
ln1959 (anonymous) says...
Coldbeer Does it again. Always bring a laugh.
August 7, 2008 at 2:22 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
charlestonroots (anonymous) says...
eatmorecollards-love your post about having old joe riley pull the carriage.
As an animal lover I find it cruel to have the horses pulling the carriages. I believe that the carriage companies treat the animals well but that does not make it ok. A few years back there was an incident where a horse was scared by something in the market area and the handler lost control while the the horse took off with a carriage full of people. I do not recall what type of injuries there were but it's more than likely going to happen again. Remember, if something tragic happens because a horse was spooked, it's not the horses fault, or the handlers, it's the company owners that send them out into the streets everyday.
I think they should get off their lazy butts and walk.
August 7, 2008 at 2:43 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Neponset (anonymous) says...
Dog..
Your user name brings to mind the expression by Randy Jackson on American Idol when addressing some contestant who has just performed - something like "hey dog" and then he goes on to tell the person what he thought. - often Randy will say "that was ok" - your remark is better than ok - it is hotter than the hinges of hell out there and the horses need to be at least in the shade..
August 7, 2008 at 2:43 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Lovely_One (anonymous) says...
Well, I don't have a horse in this fight (all puns intended); however, icecoldbeer, you made good points in your very informative post but did you have to resort to name calling. That sort of takes away from your argument. Also, you may want to minimize the spelling, punctuation, and grammar errors in a post where you start out calling people idiots. That just leaves much more ammo should anyone decide to fire back at you. :-)
As far as the horses are concerned, I am happy that they are being taken care of the way they are and that the owners take the measures they take to make sure none of them get over heated.
Coldbeer, as always, you never disappoint. Thanks for the laugh.
August 7, 2008 at 2:47 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
dogwoodroad (anonymous) says...
well...if we're going for euphemisms...I'd say it's hotter than a whore in church, dog!
August 7, 2008 at 2:49 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Neponset (anonymous) says...
Thats ok dog.
August 7, 2008 at 3:45 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
MissPriss (anonymous) says...
CB you're back!!! Yay! And your story was funny! :)
August 7, 2008 at 3:58 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
grannyofsix (anonymous) says...
CB ya got me I was so enthralled. Then the end came wow !!!!
HAHAAH I loved it
August 7, 2008 at 4:15 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
letstakeawalk (anonymous) says...
Charlestonroots - "I think they should get off their lazy butts and walk."
As a walking tour guide, I endorse this comment. (No offense meant to my friends in the carriage/bus industry)
Now if only there were a way to convince the average tourist that 0.667 mph is not considered a strenuous pace... Ya'll might be surprised to how many people can't walk more than two blocks without huffing and chuffing lungs.
August 7, 2008 at 4:33 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
JF (anonymous) says...
What a joke can't the city do anything right? I think they just make up laws to make themselves feel better, with little thought of following through on implementing them.
I for one am not a fan of the overpowering odor of horse pee in the Market. Horse belong in the country. I think the carriages need to be replaced with smart-car type electric powered or natural gas carriages. They are easier to manuever, quite, and they don't stink, and poop or pee all over the place.
August 7, 2008 at 4:42 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
iceman1978 (anonymous) says...
Posted by letstakeawalk on August 7, 2008 at 4:33 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Charlestonroots - "I think they should get off their lazy butts and walk."
As a walking tour guide, I endorse this comment. (No offense meant to my friends in the carriage/bus industry)
Now if only there were a way to convince the average tourist that 0.667 mph is not considered a strenuous pace... Ya'll might be surprised to how many people can't walk more than two blocks without huffing and chuffing lungs.
-----
Have you tried dangling a pork chop in front of people like that?
Sorry, I know that's mean but I just couldn't help it.
August 7, 2008 at 4:46 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
kerwin1959 (anonymous) says...
Setting some of the record straight:
Horses hooves are made of a cellulose type material(tissue which is similar to compressed hairlike strands)--imagine real, real thick toenails.
All horses I've seen are shod(have horseshoes on). They have an area in the center of the bottom of their hooves call a 'frog'. This helps cushion the hoof from the impact as the horse walks(think shock absorber) and it has to be cleaned and trimmed frequently in order to stay healthy, as do the hooves. I have NEVER seen a problem with any of the horses I've looked in on.
The horses used in Charleston are all from breeds known as "working horses". They can pull large logs up hills when properly trained. They are also known as gentle giants with very docile personalities. Regardless, pulling a cart with wheels and fat people on flat land is not a big deal to these guys.
These larger horses can live to be fairly old, but not as old as a smaller horse - much like larger breed dogs have a shorter life expectancy than smaller breeds. We had a horse that was part Clydesdale who lived to be 32 years old. Not bad!
Finally, the horses I've checked on are WELL taken care of and in great condition. They are accustomed to the heat, They get plenty of good feed with the right level of protein; good quality hay to munch on to provide fiber(thus the nice poop you see); good fresh water(you have to be careful not to overwater or overfeed horses--if they get an upset stomach, they are not able to vomit or burp and can colic, get gastric torsion and/or just lay down and die). They are bathed & brushed often, which stimulates their coats & the shedding process, and this helps keep flies and gnats off.
Charleston's horses live a good life; if you want to look at an industry that's tainted, look at horse racing or show horses(gaited, such as American Saddlebreds and Tennessee Walkers). It would shock most of you to know what is done to these horses, all in hopes of the blue ribbon(and I don't mean the beer).
Welcome back, Cold Beer. Hope you got my e-mail.
As for the horse that died(?); they're animals,& like humans, collapsing doesn't automatically equate to cruelty or mistreatment. Some of these really big breeds can have heart or respiratory malformations that may not be picked up on a regular physical examination.
August 7, 2008 at 4:57 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
YankeeLady (anonymous) says...
In Charleston, as well as in different cities where carriage rides are offered, animals are put at risk by potential traffic accidents, and many horses die while on duty. I can understand the political pull of the carriage trade, and would hope that most owners/operators would care for their animals well, but I think that this practice should be at minimal more closely regulated. Of course, what it really boils down to money; income for the carriage trade, tourism income for the City. It's obvious that by manipulating the "true" temperature, the carriages will roll on. Oh, and I'll forward the article to PETA.
August 7, 2008 at 5:01 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Rebel_Yell (anonymous) says...
In the old days the problem was solved by kids hurling water balloons at the tourists on carriages. Ahhhhhhhhh, those were the days when southern kids actually lived downtown and ruled the streets. :)
August 7, 2008 at 5:05 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Rebel_Yell (anonymous) says...
Yankeelady -- you are all wet
August 7, 2008 at 5:13 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
iceman1978 (anonymous) says...
If you're riding on a carriage in this heat a water ballon might be refreshing.
August 7, 2008 at 5:17 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
letstakeawalk (anonymous) says...
Yankeelady - RTFA! Sheesh. The carriage industry is already extremely rigorously regulated. It's the City that has fallen down on the job. No increase in regulation will change anything, if the incompetent boobs at City Hall continue to ignore their own edicts.
Rebel_Yell - Our favorite activity was hurling sopping wet paper towels at vehicles - imagine a sloppy snowball that goes splat! Of course, I've grown up now, and I would never encourage anyone to repeat my childhood actions... hehehe. Of course, the favorite activities of the downtown kids today are shoplifting and petty vandalism.
August 7, 2008 at 5:17 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Brant (anonymous) says...
I would certainly hope that the animals would be taken off the streets in such heat!! It's inhumane to make animals work in such conditions.
August 7, 2008 at 5:29 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Natasha (anonymous) says...
I would have thought your city had enough historical charm to lure tourists - why add horse-drawn carriages with all its baggage : the traffic issue; pollution issue; humane issue; the accident issue?
Carriage horses are very controversial now particularly in New York City and Rome, Italy where horse advocates are asking for a ban of the trade in both cities for very good reason. Things in Chicago are also moving onto the radar screen - as they are in Charleston.
This is one Yankee who will not set foot in your fair city as long as you still have a carriage trade and compassion for animals is not even an after thought.
August 7, 2008 at 6:07 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
letstakeawalk (anonymous) says...
I noticed that Natasha declined to mention her own home city. I'm sure that where she's from, everything is perfect: there is no traffic, no pollution, no inhumanity to others, nor any traffic acccidents. And now, she deprives our litttle burg of her presence! Oh how I miss her already...
August 7, 2008 at 6:28 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
abitskeptical (anonymous) says...
Thank you Kerwin for your logical informative post.
August 7, 2008 at 6:35 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
CoastofCarolina (anonymous) says...
icecold: great post but I agree with Lovely.
Kerwin: thank you for posting FACTS. I'm a long-time horse owner and you took the words right out of my ...uh ... fingers.
I'm vexed at all these *folks* who are weighing in on the treatment of these horses when they don't own them and obviously don't know anything about them. The horses are just fine. None of the carriage companies would ever do anything to cause them pain. The horses enjoy their jobs and it's fun to watch the pride in their demeanor and body language when you know what to look for.
ColdBeer: GREAT story! LOVED IT! Thanks for the laugh.
letstakeawalk: Thanks for being a voice of reason.
Natasha: I hope we always have carriage horses here - just so you stay under that rock you call home.
Yankee"female" (I only use the term "lady" when it's appropriate): Why don't you go visit Natasha and stay there? We don't need you here.
And finally, Deanne Pace is right. Measure the "official" temp at street level. It's only logical.
August 7, 2008 at 7:31 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
jeff61 (anonymous) says...
Posted by DoaMM on August 7, 2008 at 7:58 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Screw the horses...
I think that is illegal in most states
August 7, 2008 at 10:27 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
willie08 (anonymous) says...
The horses downtown piss all over the place, and it smells like urine everywhere.
Tourist's kids pick up the little flags and play with them, and have no idea what they are.
Horses don't belong in a city. They are NOT charming.
I don't care how many years they've been bred to serve us humans. Horses were never meant to be trotting all day on concrete next to auto exhaust. If a horse could talk, he would say, get this crap off me and take me to the farm. I don't have to be a equine expert in order to know that.
They are still enlaved to make people money, I don't care how good they're treated in their tiny little cells, or what kind of diet they're on. I would at LEAST hope they're fed well.
Comparing carriage companies to horse racing is pointless.
That's a totally different subject, and does not relate to our city.
August 7, 2008 at 10:35 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
jeff61 (anonymous) says...
Posted by drp7773 on August 7, 2008 at 9:09 a.m. (Suggest removal)
my god these are horses, the same ones that hauled full wagon trains with families on board across the praries, the ones that chased cattle heards that went wild for a day, the ones that used to haul ice and food and milk carriges
I really don't think they are the same horses. I do not know the life expectancy of a horse but I am sure those horses have long since died.
On another note I realy don't think the temperature varies all that much from street to street. Why not just go with what our reliable weather people say the temp will be or is and go with that?
August 7, 2008 at 10:36 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
willie08 (anonymous) says...
jeff61
If I was a horse, I would rather be going cross country pulling a wagon or chasing cattle heards then be making the same rounds on downtown streets.
August 7, 2008 at 10:48 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
BanHDCarriages (anonymous) says...
Yes, horses get heat stroke--and it is potentially deadly, as it is in people.
Why all the hostility? There is nothing funny about it. Charleston's horse-drawn carriage industry is inhumane, as is New York City's. The ASPCA, HSUS, and dozens of other national and international organizations are unified in supporting a full ban on horse-drawn carriages in NYC.
Please investigate this issue in Charleston. There is no reason to have horse-drawn carriages. Your city is beautiful and historic. No need to exploit animals for the sake of "entertainment."
An excerpt from an article on TheHorse.com:
As horses exercise or work, energy is produced by muscle metabolism, and approximately 80% is released as heat. Under normal circumstances, this heat is released to the environment without consequence. However, when the temperature is high, the workload is excessive, or the horse is not acclimated, heat load might create a problem. Under those circumstances, the horse might not have adequate blood volume to supply working muscles and blood vessels to the skin while maintaining perfusion to the vital organs. When vital organs don't receive enough oxygen, their function becomes compromised.
The clinical manifestations can include poor performance or inability to follow commands. In serious cases, it might lead to erratic behavior or even collapse. This condition is known as "heat stroke" and results from lack of oxygen to the brain.
August 9, 2008 at 5:30 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
wood_floors (anonymous) says...
i think the poor horses shouldnt be used in weather over 90 degrees and anything higher should be animal cruelty. These horses are pulling heavy laden carriages around in this heat, gimme a break or is it the buck driving this! cons.rep. comment
August 14, 2008 at 4:25 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Postandcourier.com is pleased to offer readers the enhanced ability to comment on stories. We expect our readers to engage in lively, yet civil discourse. Postandcourier.com does not edit user submitted statements and we cannot promise that readers will not occasionally find offensive or inaccurate comments posted in the comments area. Responsibility for the statements posted lies with the person submitting the comment, not postandcourier.com. If you find a comment that is objectionable, please click "report abuse" and we will review it for possible removal. Please be reminded, however, that in accordance with our Terms of Use and federal law, we are under no obligation to remove any third party comments posted on our website. Read our full Terms and Conditions.
Users can now build user-to-user connections, follow friends' recent posts, add an avatar that fits their personality, and more. If you have posted here before you'll need to sign up again, or if you've never posted before, start now by signing up!
Thank you for your interest in this story. The comment thread for this article has been closed.
- Most Commented
- Most Emailed
- Shared
- Upper King on rise: Hotels, apartments, restaurants changing face of downtown area
- UPDATE: Missing woman's fiance seen leaving scene of burned SUV, carrying a shovel
- Missing woman case gets murkier
- Magnolia Gardens offering free dream wedding to contest winner
- Body of missing woman's fiance was found near handgun
- Pinterest: Pinning hopes and dreams
- DAVID SLADE: S.C. offers hybrid car tax credit
- Black women today: Strong. Resilient. Ambitious.
- Ex-Boeing worker claims racism, retaliation in firing
- MCDERMOTT COLUMN: Golf business has risks, rewards
