9 more poker suspects surrender
Charleston County deputies defend gambling arrests as their public duty
By Nita Birmingham , Nadine Parks
The Post and Courier
They're not all in yet, but nine more of them are.
The accused gamblers surrendered Wednesday night in the nearly year-long undercover poker investigation. Forty-five have been arrested, and there's more to come. The probe involves more than 60 suspects wanted on nearly 200 charges.
Among those who arrived at the Charleston County Detention Center in North Charleston for processing were Cpl. Michael McElveen, 38, a 14-year veteran of the Charleston Police Department. McElveen is on administrative leave without pay.
In response to public criticism this week, deputies did not wear the black masks Wednesday that had protected undercover officers in the previous arrests.
They strongly defended the arrests, saying it was their public duty to break up what they called a well-organized operation.
Players are charged with misdemeanor offenses, but eight dealers face felony betting and gaming charges, said sheriff's Maj. John Clark. The dealers were paid $1,300 a night for their work, he said.
Clark said that despite players' contentions that the games were nothing more than boys' poker night, it was a high-stakes operation with paid employees and a house fee to play. Clark said he did not know who among the suspects are charged as dealers.
Players paid $5 per hand to get in the games, and that money went to the host, Clark said.
Poker arrests
The following people surrendered Wednesday night and face unlawful betting and gaming charges.
-- Michael B. McElveen Jr., 38
-- Mary Rippe, 45
-- James Wesley West, 41
-- Scott E. Richards, 33
-- Curtis Heyward, 43
-- John Edward Egonut, 34
-- James A. Laing, 44
-- Bryan Keith Raver, 39
-- Robert Gregory Keiger, 41
-- Michael W. Williamson, 46, and Jeremy Brestel, 27, were previously arrested but surrendered Wednesday to face additional charges.
Gamblers had to have $300 cash just to sit down at the table, and there was no limit on the betting, Clark said. After midnight, the buy-in went up to $1,000, he said.
Other games of chance were set up around the room, Clark said. He said refreshments were on the house.
"This was not boys' night out," the major said.
The Charleston County Sheriff's Office had faced criticism about what some critics said was a heavy-handed approach, with officers in black masks booking suspects into the jail Monday night at a makeshift station outside.
On Wednesday, officers worked unmasked, many of them in civilian clothing.
"We accept the criticism, but we did our job," Clark said. "The guys that put in the work, they don't have anything to feel ashamed about. It's what they are paid to do."
Attorney Mark Peper represented several of the clients who surrendered Wednesday. Most of them are professional business people who knew that what they were doing was illegal, he said.
"I'm not naive enough to believe that anybody doesn't know that gambling is illegal," he said. "They're having to explain this to their wives and children. It's taking a toll on their families."
Earlier Wednesday, some of the players arrested in Friday night's raid in Hanahan started showing up at the Sheriff's Office to retrieve their wallets. Harold Hutzler, 44, was among them. He's facing four charges of unlawful games and betting.
Hutzler owns about a half-dozen pieces of property and said being without his credit cards for four days put him in a bad spot, as it did many of the men busted with him. He didn't get his seized cash back.
"I can't do business. They've got all my money," he said outside the Sheriff's Office.
Hutzler had arrived at the home of Martin and Dawn Reyes at 6916 Tanner Hall Blvd. around 8 p.m. Friday. Law enforcement came through the door a couple of hours later.
"I didn't know what the hell was going on. I just heard a bunch of commotion. They rushed the door in their ninja suits," Hutzler said.
Some of the undercover officers wore face masks.
"I thought we were getting robbed," Hutzler said.
The players were processed at the Hanahan Police Department. Those accused of playing in games in Charleston County's jurisdiction, including Hutzler, were then transported to the jail for a second round of processing. He thinks he got to the jail around 1 a.m. Saturday but isn't sure because officers took his watch.
"They could have just given us a ticket and let us roll on," he said.
Hutzler said he's been playing poker for three years. He disputed the Charleston County sheriff's assertion that this was a well-organized gambling group with paid employees. Games moved as locales became available, he said. The Sheriff's Office said it identified a total of five locations set up for casino-style gambling. Some are businesses where Hutzler said players gathered after closing hours. He started playing at a North Charleston business, but moved to another game when the owner closed it down, he said. Word spread among friends.
"We like playing poker. If you're a fisherman, you find a good fishing spot," Hutzler said.
Hutzler said he doesn't understand why the Sheriff's Office investigation stretched out over 10 months.
"I don't know why they would do such a deep investigation for a magistrate-level misdemeanor," he said.
Reach Nadine Parks at nparks@postandcourier.com or 937-5573. Reach Nita Birmingham at nbirmingham@postandcourier.com.
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RMabry (anonymous) says...
There has always been some-sort-of an unspoken feud between the CCSD and CPD so perhaps the moment the CCSD found out in there investigation that a CPD officer was involved, well you know the rest. It makes very good news too, notice that the first individual mentioned in every article was Charleston's finest. I feel bad for the CCSD officer who is caught speeding in CPD territory; ha-ha; just kidding I'm sure that would never-ever happen.
It is hard to believe that so many resources have been put forward on this and it does seem odd about the ski masks. That does seem really odd. (Are they embarrassed? Or hiding from CPD officers?) Why the masks? It doesn't look right.
Statistically we are 4th worst state in crime in the entire country and now even one of the worst places to raise children? Some people say we just keep better criminal statistics than other states but people in other states say the same thing about their own states' figures too. My point is that our quest to improve seems flawed.
This is the most unbelievable case in this tri-county's history.
April 10, 2008 at 12:47 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Ron_Godzilla (anonymous) says...
This is so pathetic. We have violent crime, crack, murders and robbery festering all over this area and our law enforcement agencies wasted our tax payer money on this. If I were a cop involved in this case I would spit on my badge. Shame on you Charleston law enforcement, shame on you!
April 10, 2008 at 1:24 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Cid95 (anonymous) says...
In principle, this is indeed a ridiculous waste of police effort.
However, in reality, running a de facto casino in a residence is not 'ok'. To me, the problems here are more on the unlicensed business side though.
I mean, what if I made great hot dogs or hand tools or whatever and started selling them from my home, with customers and cars everywhere paying me cash only? That isn't 'ok'.
But, I can't understand the difference between a real casino (run as a licensed business in a proper venue) in SC and the lottery. Both are games of chance for people to piss their money away on and maybe get rich with some luck. Both provide revenue for the state. Why can we have one but not the other?
April 10, 2008 at 2:31 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
lillycollette (anonymous) says...
Quote: "Attorney Mark Peper represented several of the clients who surrendered Wednesday. Most of them are professional business people who knew that what they were doing was illegal, he said."
This says it all.
Eliciting theatrical diatribes against law enforcement for enforcing this law only undermines arguments for changing this law. If you believe that it is time for a change, present a valid case for it.
April 10, 2008 at 4:10 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
BKLYNIRISH (anonymous) says...
"In response to public criticism this week, deputies did not wear the black masks Wednesday that had protected undercover officers in the previous arrests."
Great...now they're "used up" for undercover work. Sometimes you just have to say, "criticize away! This is an officer safety issue."
What have they accomplished by taking away their anonymity?
April 10, 2008 at 6:09 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
moonpie (anonymous) says...
Some of you people are just police haters and no matter what they do it will always be wrong to you. This was 60 people not 5 or 10 friends getting together to play a little poker. Sorry you "professionals" got caught. Like I have said before, when the stakes are this high it just takes one to lose and get mad and things can turn ugly real fast. Then you nay sayers would have been crying for the police's neck! Want a hobby take up fishing, want to gamble buy a lottery ticket! Hey don't forget 12 of these "professionals" had outstanding warrants! I'd love to hear what for?
April 10, 2008 at 6:16 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
abitskeptical (anonymous) says...
It seems that most of the "diatribes" are against selective enforcement of "the LAW" &/or what appears to be questionable priority setting by those who make decisions about what to investigate.
If you play in a game with pennies, nickels, dimes,& quarters, according to Al Cannon as he stated on WTMA, the police will not raid your home. Also "It may be an old law," Cannon said. "But so is murder." This doesn't say it all, but it certainly says a lot.
April 10, 2008 at 6:17 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Nonsense (anonymous) says...
I don't hate the police, I just think the priorities are all screwed up, considering the crime problems, drug problems, etc. in the area. It's a misdemeanor - with a maximum fine of $100.00!!!! I guess it seemed like a great way to make some quick cash.
April 10, 2008 at 6:22 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
BKLYNIRISH (anonymous) says...
"When will criminal charges be brought against the deputies for wearing those mask? It's illegal for them to do so."
I am looking forward to seeing this "law" in print (I know which one you are thinking of). The hoods come down to a matter of safety for those officers involved, who are often in plain clothes/undercover assignments. Until such time as the law is changed, the folks that were arrested for this crime are CRIMINALS, and SOME of them were not exactly choirboys to begin with.
If this is not a case of "Organized Crime," then I don't know what is.
****
"There has always been some-sort-of an unspoken feud between the CCSD and CPD..."
There has, in the past, been a perceived feud between the two agencies, but that alleged feud was not between the line officers but the leadership (and that perception is, at best, questionable)
I would throw that line of thinking out of the equation.
April 10, 2008 at 6:33 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
ChrisPia (anonymous) says...
They did their job and did it professionally under the law.
The laws Need To be Rewritten or abolished. I think that even if this law is rewritten they still would have violated it.
Lilycollette ...I Agree. But there angershould be at their Attorney Not the police.They are paying him for a defense."you have the right to remain silent"
April 10, 2008 at 6:44 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
jimmy1370 (anonymous) says...
"If this is not a case of "Organized Crime," then I don't know what is."
What crime is that?? Playing cards? You are aware that the law says any game involving cards or dice. Which means they could break up my "go-fish" ring I have going. But, I have my monopoly ring to fall back on thankg goodness.
Now if you all will excuse me, I have to go buy me some Lottery tickets!!
April 10, 2008 at 6:51 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
BKLYNIRISH (anonymous) says...
Jimmy1370:
At this point, and whether you agree with it or not, gambling is still a crime, and judging by the set-up they had at the house, it is pretty "organized." Until such time as you successfully lobby the General Assembly to change the law, these men (and women) are CRIMINALS.
This scene is reminiscent of the "good old days" of the mafia running games like this, but they were "good people" too, right?
April 10, 2008 at 6:57 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
gococks1985 (anonymous) says...
Well...I need some answers here so here is my question. If this law is still in effect, then why do we (city halls, business license departments) knowingly sell cards and dice games in the towns/state? It would seem to me that the Department of Revenue is just as guilty for allowing business' to sell these items. I would also like to know this, should we start calling the law when we see a deck of cards or a monopoly game in houses? I'm sure that everyone here has played that game at least once. I realize what they did was break the law and I don't agree with the level of "action" that was going on in the house, but I really think that the efforts need to redirected to change this very old law and many others out there.
April 10, 2008 at 7:22 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
jcg04 (anonymous) says...
Here is the gambling Law as it is written in the South Carolina Code of Laws.
ACCORDING TO THIS, I GUESS I SHOULD CALL SHERIFF CANNON AND REPORT ALL THE OLD WOMEN IN TOWN THAT PLAY THEIR WEEKLY GAME OF BRIDGE (and yes, they do use pennies to through in the pot). THEN I GUESS THE CCSD COULD BREAK THEIR DOORS DOWN (while wearing their mask of course), AND ARREST THESE DANGEROUS CRIMINALS.
SECTION 16-19-40. Unlawful games and betting.
If any person shall play at any tavern, inn, store for the retailing of spirituous liquors or in any house used as a place of gaming, barn, kitchen, stable or other outhouse, street, highway, open wood, race field or open place at (a) any game with cards or dice, (b) any gaming table, commonly called A, B, C, or E, O, or any gaming table known or distinguished by any other letters or by any figures, (c) any roley-poley table, (d) rouge et noir, (e) any faro bank (f) any other table or bank of the same or the like kind under any denomination whatsoever or (g) any machine or device licensed pursuant to Section 12-21-2720 and used for gambling purposes, except the games of billiards, bowls, backgammon, chess, draughts, or whist when there is no betting on any such game of billiards, bowls, backgammon, chess, draughts, or whist or shall bet on the sides or hands of such as do game, upon being convicted thereof, before any magistrate, shall be imprisoned for a period of not over thirty days or fined not over one hundred dollars, and every person so keeping such tavern, inn, retail store, public place, or house used as a place for gaming or such other house shall, upon being convicted thereof, upon indictment, be imprisoned for a period not exceeding twelve months and forfeit a sum not exceeding two thousand dollars, for each and every offense.
April 10, 2008 at 7:43 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Clemson1979 (anonymous) says...
I have 2 Questions.
CPD..who killed my old high school history teacher Mr Harris at the battery? (a year ago?) Did you spend 10 months looking for the killer?
What does the Gov. think about all of this? I can not see him wanting to waste 10 months of salary going after poker players. Has he been quoted yet?
April 10, 2008 at 7:48 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
BulldogTLC (anonymous) says...
Thomas1776: "Any person engaged in a trade or employment in which a mask is worn for the purpose of ensuring the physical safety of the wearer or because of the nature of the occupation, trade or profession;"
This is where they would be exempt from this law. They are undercover cops who are protecting their identity for their own safety.
April 10, 2008 at 7:48 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Perspective (anonymous) says...
In this case the masks were a bad idea, but certain officers' identies must be protected in some cases. This case was not one of them. Uniformed officers should have been used for the warrant service and processing.
It is obvious that some of you just hate law enforcement and government, failing to realize that every liberty and pleasurable moment you have is due to your government and those who enforce the laws. If it were not for them, the country would be called Somalia. Warloads would run the streets and pirates would run the coast.
To one half-witted poster on here - you pretend to be so Holy than Thou, but if there was an illegal casino next door to your house you would be singing a different tune rather than having a silly screen name pretending you founded Charleston and wrote the constitution.
If these were black crackheads downtown shooting dice, you would be raising hell wanting no expense spared in locking 'em all up and throwing away the key.
Illegal gambling operation in a residential neighborhood - NOT a couple of guys getting together to play cards.
April 10, 2008 at 7:50 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
BulldogTLC (anonymous) says...
Clemson 1979: "What does the Gov. think about all of this? I can not see him wanting to waste 10 months of salary going after poker players. Has he been quoted yet?"
It doesn't matter what he has to say. These was a Charleston County investigation. While I don't agree with the law, you cannot fault the CCSD for doing their job, which is to enforce all the laws, not just the ones that they agree with.
April 10, 2008 at 7:52 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
teeitup (anonymous) says...
These comments show just how much ignorance there is in this area. Whats the bitch, these people were knowingly breaking the law and should not be surprised at the outcome. Being in the privacy of your home does not justify breaking the law. No matter if you agree if the law is just or not, it still is the law.
April 10, 2008 at 7:54 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Clemson1979 (anonymous) says...
I can fault them for doing that Bulldog. Show up...write them 100 dollar tickets...then leave. No need to waste 10 months on it. It is that easy. Chas is turning into a scary place with all of the murders going on there. Just ask my old history teacher...oh nevermind..he was killed
April 10, 2008 at 7:57 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
theronce (anonymous) says...
The investigation and raid is easy to "blame" on the "nameless" police in general. The decision maker(s) has a name. This was not a group decision by the rank and file officers. Someone with a name, quite possibly a civilian, made the decisions to investigate then raid and how to do it. The police were truly doing their job. Please let them off the hook, so to speak, and identify the decision maker(s) for the investigation, raid, and methods.
April 10, 2008 at 8:12 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
courtjester (anonymous) says...
Front page of P&C "Charleston County deputies defend GAMBLING arrests as their public duty"
Section B Front page "Lady luck 3 women hit lottery"
Can I get some clarification?
April 10, 2008 at 8:23 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
BulldogTLC (anonymous) says...
Clemson, did they waste 10 months on it? SOund to me like they conducted a sucessful 10 month investigation. I'm sure this was no the only case they were working during this 10 month time either. I certainly agree that this law needs to be examined. However the cops cannot pick and chose which laws they uphold. Whoever killed you history teacher may have thought they were justified in doing so. The law says differently and I hope they too are caught.
April 10, 2008 at 8:28 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
oldglory (anonymous) says...
This wasn't a regular Saturday night game of poker with a couple of tables of friends.
This was a 'floating' big time operation, a business. Look at earlier pictures of the tables and rest of the layout. These were people who decided they were above the law, sadly.
I had to laugh at the man quoted as having said that four credit cards/some cash were confiscated from him, worried about operating his business. Not that worried about his business or he wouldn't have been there.
I love Las Vegas and New Jersey casinos--are great fun. I don't have a problem with gambling if one chooses to do so; however, one doesn't break the law to have fun and then say they are innocent.
Does the law need to be changed? Up to citizens and legislators to decide that, woulnd't you say?
April 10, 2008 at 8:30 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
courtjester (anonymous) says...
Poker tables, casino style poker chips, playing cards and other such paraphernalia are readily accessible to purchase at many local retail stores.....are these just souveniers for "eye candy"? Marijuana is illegal in this state as well, but I am not able to buy it at many retail stores here in SC.
April 10, 2008 at 8:40 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
abitskeptical (anonymous) says...
Well said theronce.
I think most reasonable people understand that most of the LEO involved with this operation were following a chain of command order,
As previously said, many, if not most, posters voicing criticism are not specifically upset that a law on the books was enforced but, rather, that priorities are off & also that it seems selective enforcement occurs more than merely by happenstance.
There is only so much money, so many officers, so much time...
An ER doctor sewing up a child's split lip is, in fact, doing his/her job.
But if he/she is doing this before attending to the heart attack patient in the next cubicle, he is not doing his job well, even IF he/she gets a perfect closure on the split lip. Get it?
April 10, 2008 at 8:44 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
jcg04 (anonymous) says...
BulldogTLC I disagree with you on the fact, that the police cannot pick and choose which laws to uphold. Because the simple fact of the matter is that the police can pick and choose which laws they can uphold, its called DISCRETION. Have you ever been pulled over by the highway patrol for speeding then let go without a citation or with just a warning? That is what we call discretion. And if you would like, I could give you the numbers of several USC professors that would be more than happy to explain the nuances of police discretion.
April 10, 2008 at 9:06 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
abitskeptical (anonymous) says...
Hey give us a break, the investigation took 10 months, there's a lot to say.... :)
April 10, 2008 at 9:06 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
crankyyankee (anonymous) says...
So when the police turn a blind eye to illegal immigration they are using discretion? Peachy!
April 10, 2008 at 9:30 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
crackerJ (anonymous) says...
I HOPE ALL 60 ASK FOR A JURY TRIAL.
April 10, 2008 at 9:37 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
outrage (anonymous) says...
Thomas1776 - You are my hero! A true Constitutional scholar.
April 10, 2008 at 9:41 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Satanssybil2007 (anonymous) says...
clemson1979 - Mr. Harris was my former history teacher as well......my mother taught at FBS also and I ask CPD the same: Where is the lunatic who killed that wonderful man on the battery a year ago! Oh yeah couldn't find that person, y'all have been too busy watching a card game! Hey I think my mom's bridge group plays today! maybe i should call her and warn her and her friends!
April 10, 2008 at 10:26 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
bigwhip (anonymous) says...
Plenty of media coverage, plenty of dialogue equals an important issue.Most of the comments are viable all of which tells an important story. I feel it is quite ironic that our police departments have to defend themselves for upholding a law that we know needs revision.The catch.....that group of golfballs in our State Legislature who just don't get it. South Carolina is at the lower end of almost every state benchmark because of our Columbia clowns. We continue to re-elect,re-elect, and re-elect.
April 10, 2008 at 10:44 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
FlowertownPhil (anonymous) says...
I'm a bit confused, if Cannon said "we enforce the law" why would he then admit on WTMA (as said in another post by abitskeptical) that they would not bust a small stakes game in someone's home. You either enforce the Law or you don't. Commonsense does not come into play!
BTW - this was not "boys playing poker" from what I've read, but an organized gambling operation that should have been shut down. My point is that politicians (The Sheriff is a politician) need to keep their stories straight.
April 10, 2008 at 10:45 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Letsberational (anonymous) says...
Ok everybody.... say this with me:
"Charleston... County. Different than Charleston... City"
The murder at the Battery, like any other murder in Charleston "city" is investigated by city, not COUNTY police.
Should CPD have found the killer? Sure, they should solve every crime.
Regardles... is this CCPD's fault? NO!
Furthermore, what is wrong with them enforcing an illegal gambling operation? You guys have a very subjective interpretation of the law. I'm afraid if you break a law, especially one as egregious as an underground gambling operation, you WILL be punished. No one gives a damn whether or not you are a professional.
The law does not apply simply to those that you people think are "lawbreakers". It applies to ALL lawbreakers, period.
April 10, 2008 at 10:52 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Clemson1979 (anonymous) says...
I live in Greenville SC now, and this would never happen up here. I am not saying they wouldnt give out tickets to the players, but they would have gone there the day somebody complained, and that would have been the end of it. With all of the murder and drugs in Charleston, one would hope the PD would devote as much time as they can fighting it. Most people in here are thinking we are mad that they got tickets...I am somewhat upset about that, but they did break the law. I am shocked that they wasted 10 months on it. I mean is a Task Force really the answer? Ski Masks..LOL? It is a very very minor charge, with a tiny fee. Who Cares? Go fight drugs and murder, etc....
April 10, 2008 at 10:58 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
forget (anonymous) says...
The Reyes had a good size gambling operation. The amount of tables and other gambling paraphanalia says the same. It is against the law, and they all broke the law. The big concern that these people didn't consider is that if someone else (someone MORE morally corrupt) gets wind of this operation going on and the amount of cash involved and decides him and his buddies are going to make a big haul. Of course, they would go in with a few guns, and I'm sure there's at least a few guns on the individuals playing. No need to speculate what would happen next. I'm thinking that is one of the main reasons the law is still around and they're enforcing it like it is. This place we call home doesn't need anymore senseless killings.
April 10, 2008 at 11:01 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Satanssybil2007 (anonymous) says...
OK letsberational we can all see you are the smart ass of the day here! CCPD - can we all say Charleston City Police Department???? duh!
AND I can assure you not one of the late Hr. Harris' students gives a rat's ass who should be finding his killer as long as his killer IS found and prosecuted and then executed!
and let me guess letsberational you have NEVER EVER played a simple card game! b/c then that too would make you a law breaker! OMG
April 10, 2008 at 11:07 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
lilpenny0 (anonymous) says...
I agree with TP. Why couldn't they have used officers who were not undercover to "raid" the house? Also, why didn't they just get tickets. If only a few of them were actually charged with felony charges, how come they weren't the only ones arrested? As another poster said on yesterday, they could have just as easily went over there, knocked on the door and made themselves known. Did they really expect to see gun weilding thugs in that room? If they were "investigating" this "operation" for 10 months, then they already knew who would be at this game, or at least have a pretty good idea of the type of people who would be attending.
Although a few of them had outstanding warrants, they couldn't be anything more than some traffice violations or unpaid tickets (of course, that is just me speculating at this point). But how can you run a business and have a warrant for a violent offense?
And yes, the cops do have the choice of whether or not to enforce a particular law...not every law, but certain ones. They can't decide to not arrest you if you are a burglar who has been caught and just write you a ticket. But if they are only going to charge you with Unlawful Gaming & Betting, then they could have very well let those who were charged with this offense go home with a ticket and have them appear in court.
I would like to see how they broke down the amount they claimed was "in play". According to the P&C, $20k of that money was in a safe in a bedroom and a lot of it came from out of people's pockets. How much of the money was actually in play on the tables? All they would have to do is count the chips that were being used by each player and that will tell them the true amount that was in play.
I think they are bundling any and everything they can associate with the game in order to justify them making the arrests. Don't get me wrong, I don't have anything against the cops for doing their job. For the most part, they were just doing what they were told to do, respectfully. At the same time, I think they carried out their operation in bad taste and are doing and saying what they feel they need to in order to make it seem like it was all done properly. Well, it wasn't....
April 10, 2008 at 11:12 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Letsberational (anonymous) says...
Satanssybil2007:
Ah yes... they both share the same abbreviation. You caught me there.
Does that refute my argument that people like you are fools? Not really.
Also this wasn't a simple card game, pal.
OMG? What are you, twelve? Ok I g2g work, brb!
April 10, 2008 at 11:26 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
jcg04 (anonymous) says...
Letsberational, lets see how long long you hold on to that opinion, after you or someone you know gets assaulted, murdered or raped in Charleston county. Then you might reconsider who the real "lawbreakers" are! And if this happened I am sure you would be the most vocal of the group, wanting to know what the CCSD were doing while the crime was being committed. Oh, thats right I forgot these Dbags were busy catching people playing cards.
That is the question that every family that has had to deal with any of these crimes in the past 10 months, should pose to Sheriff Cannon! Look at the stats (letsberational), the Charleston County serious crime stats show a trend, and its not a good one. The community suffers while the the CCSD uses valuable resources attack the decent citizens of the county. (Congrats Sheriff John Wayne and his morality posse.) I am sure the county finds itself much safer this week, than it did the week before.
P.S. And the Sheriff still can't seem to figure out why the CCSD can't get more community support! I wonder why that could be be........
April 10, 2008 at 11:33 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
BravesFan (anonymous) says...
I have to admit I'm torn. Although I believe the law is extremely outdated and needs to be changed, I have a hard time equating a family playing Monopoly or even playing the lottery with what these guys were doing, regardless of what the law actually states. God forbid we actually apply common sense to our laws. Common sense is why we can play our family card games with our kids and not get arrested. Common sense is also the reason why these people did.
April 10, 2008 at 11:38 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Clemson1979 (anonymous) says...
They find Poker Machines in the upstate all of the time. Some in bars, some in the woods! They destroy the machines and fine people. No task force, no year long drama, no ski masks.
Letsberational--even IF it wasnt a simple card game...does it really take 10 months to do something about it?
Satanssybil2007--Did you grad from FBS? if so what year?
April 10, 2008 at 11:39 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Satanssybil2007 (anonymous) says...
Am I 12 you ask, letsberational? not no but hell no but we all are aware that is your IQ with the things you post. OK it was not a simple card game obviously with the cash flow running through the house but as well as jcg04 put it the CCSD and any other department who was involved in this "investigation" over the last 10 months should be held accountable by the citizens who were relying on their expertise in finding the harden criminals who harmed their families! And as for your calling ME a fool??? NOT with a screen that starts with SATAN you dumb ass! and a pal of yours I am not!!! all my friends have Intelligence, morals and character! something you are lacking in completely.
April 10, 2008 at 11:45 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Girleygirl (anonymous) says...
I have a question and I know some of you all are going to get upset, but I have to ask this.
About two weeks ago when PC printed the story about the mothers walking the kids to the bus and they were fighting tickets, the majority of you all were mad because the mothers' disrespected the law and these officers. I think the majority of the posters were all for the cops and even made comments about the cops taking gaurd by the crosswalk due to the mother's bad behavior. Do you all remember that?
Now the same posters are mad at the cops for upholding an old stupid law as well.......I just don't understand how some of you all two weeks ago wanted to give some of these officers gold badges and parades and now saying they should be embarrassed for breaking up a poker game....
Why are you all that stood up for the cops two weeks ago are upset with them this week?
April 10, 2008 at 11:49 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
jlaw (anonymous) says...
if i took a brief case with $100,000 down to any gas station. I could buy 100,000 losing lottery tickets. Who cares?
North Charleston is one of the top 10 most dangerous communities in this county to live in according to the FBI. With the sheriff spending their resources on this mess it is no wonder why.
I am sick of hearing about staffing and budget problems with the police department since they appear to have time and money for this investigation.
We should demand that Cannon resign and that the county cut the police departments budget and give the difference to our strugling school system.
When will one these reporters have the guts to press Cannon on the number of manhours wated in this? and the costs?
April 10, 2008 at 11:50 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
buzz457 (anonymous) says...
Hey Sheriff why don't you make a statement about the real reason that you spent a year doing this lame investigation. That it was all about forfeiture money that you can use to buy new toys for the department.
April 10, 2008 at 11:50 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Letsberational (anonymous) says...
Easy there. Ok, I apologize for calling you a fool and getting personal.
I was just trying to point out that *CCSD* doesn't exactly have a great deal of jurisdictional authority over Charleston County. His are the unincorporated areas, and he only helps the municipal governments.
Charleston County does have a great deal of crime, but mostly in the municipalities.
Is black masks ridiculous? Yes. 10 months of investigation? Probably. But this was a serious gambling ring. And CCSD isn't out there solving the crimes of North Charleston, Charleston, etc.
April 10, 2008 at 11:55 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
jlaw (anonymous) says...
For those who say, " the police can't pick and choose the laws to enforce"... Bull
They do not break into our bedrooms to enforce sodomy laws!
They do not arrest us for spitting on the sidewalk!
When you are number 7 in the list of the most dangerous cities to live in.. You need to have a sheriff who will focus the departments attention on making his community safe and getting his city's name off of the FBI most dangerous list.
April 10, 2008 at 12:01 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Satanssybil2007 (anonymous) says...
Clemson1979 I went to FBS from 4K to the tenth grade. My sister gradusted in 1976. I ended up graduating from East Cooper Private. My mom retired as a teacher from FBS and my sister is now a teacher at FBS!
and letsberational, apology accepted and the knickname SATAN is actually my husbands, my knickname is the SYBIL part! black masks are a must for the UNDERCOVER agents I agree!
April 10, 2008 at 12:01 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
GeecheeBoi84 (anonymous) says...
[Some of the undercover officers wore face masks.
"I thought we were getting robbed," Hutzler said.]
LMAO!!! Even funnier, a 14-year veteran of CPD was arrested in the sting (kind of a hard blow to those of you who swear up and down that (N)CPD officers are squeaky clean). I guess he saw it like a lot of us... it's really not that serious. Take a course in Criminal Justice; gambling is marked as a victimless crime. Charleston has MORE than enough things going on to keep CPD busy, than breaking up a gambling ring...
April 10, 2008 at 12:01 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
OldSalt (anonymous) says...
I wouldn't want this operation going on in my neighborhood, but the reasonable response would be to go after the organizers on a racketeering charge and let the feds handle it.
(I was going to say I bet they wish now they had handled it differently - but I don't want that to be misinterpreted.)
April 10, 2008 at 12:05 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Satanssybil2007 (anonymous) says...
Clemson1979 meant to ask you if you graduated from FBS and if so what year I went to FBS from 1969 - 1981/82 (I started 4k when I was 3)
April 10, 2008 at 12:06 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
jlaw (anonymous) says...
This wasn't a serious gambling ring. There have been no ties to organized crime atleast from what i have read. Players paid $5 to the house and the house provived food. Gee hiz.. DO you really think someone living in a $600,000+ house cares about making $5 per player per night - his food costs? Please, the $5 probably didn't even cover the food and beverages that he provided.
As for the dealers.. who cares. They were there to provide a service for the players and the prayers compensated them for doing so, just like people pay house cleaners or anyone else who do work for them.
Unless someone was actually making money by running the event this is junk. From what I have read $5 per player going toward food and beverages for the evening should not count. a dealer being compesated by the players.. well that's just a nice way to host a party (if I hosted a party I would hire bartenders so my guests do not have to worry about it).
As for Al Cannon's turf being the #7 most dangerous city in America - Well that is something to talk about. Maybe, if he keeps wasting the tax payers money on this junk, he can earn the #1 spot n that shameful list this year!
April 10, 2008 at 12:08 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Chilldiesel83 (anonymous) says...
I guess I will throw a few comments out there as well. Basically what I see us having here is that a few buddies got together to play some poker. It happens all across America in every state. The problem is that it eventually grew into an illegal operation, with people being paid for services rendered ie a dealer making 1300 a night. Now as far as this SC law goes, one cannot seriously believe that gambling will ever stop, illegally or otherwise. It happens with cards, on the golf course, etc etc. The bigger problem with gambling is the lottery thing we got going on. Now I am not opposed to the lottery, after all I am assuming that the money made from it is going back into the state and towards education, at least I hope so. The bigger problem is people complaining about poverty and having no money, yet if they get a 100 dollar check, they go and buy 75 dollars worth of lottery tickets. But then again, how can you tell one person or a group of people who are below a certain income level that they cannot go buy a lottery ticket. Ok so I guess I pretty much just talked and didnt say a damn thing, but I guess the point I am trying to make is that yes, the gambling ring that these guys were operating was illegal and they should be prosecuted for it. Gambling as a whole will never cease, and you cannot write a law that says one level of gambling, ie playing for 20 bucks on the golf course is ok, but playing for 500 at a poker table is not ok. You will never be able to draw that line in the sand. The other issue on hand is that the law written makes no sense, and needs to be updated, although I dont know what it could say, ie see my last sentance. Kinda like the same reason we have amendments on the Constitution. Oh yea, and those people who spend every dime they have on lottery tickets, and then complain because the goverment does not give them enough money to live and prosper on, well I just dont know what to do about that one.
April 10, 2008 at 12:11 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
ted (anonymous) says...
OK,Seems like overkill on the fuss,,BUT!! if the powers to be knew about the friendly little poker games and didn't proceed with arrests and legal action there would be SCREAMING about cover-ups and special treatments..Can't win for losing nowadays.
April 10, 2008 at 12:13 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Letsberational (anonymous) says...
jlaw... Al Cannon's turf isn't any "city". It is the county. I am assuming you mean North Charleston, and that is the responsibility North Charleston PD.
April 10, 2008 at 12:13 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
jlaw (anonymous) says...
When police beakup late night parties.. they typlicaly come by and tell everyone to go home.
That would have worked fine here to. They could have had an officer knock on the door 10 months ago and say stop it or we will come back and arrest you'll. These people were not hardened criminals, nearly all had no records. I am sure being good citizens they would have gladly complied and this waste of money and resources could have been avoided. They would have then been able to fight the real crime out there in dangerous N. Charleston.
April 10, 2008 at 12:14 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
jlaw (anonymous) says...
Weather people play for $5 per game or $5000 isn't a seperating factor. Some people have more income and more money and that's just America. You can say this wasn't "poor boys" night out.. but you can't say it wasn't "boy's night out" altogether.
April 10, 2008 at 12:19 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Clemson1979 (anonymous) says...
I went to FBS from second Grade to Grad. I finished in 1997. It was kind of a family thing..my sister, mom, 3 cousins, 3 aunts, 3 uncles all went there! We are all from John's Island, and St John's High school was a place I/we were not interested in at all.
April 10, 2008 at 12:23 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
jlaw (anonymous) says...
My math says, of the $40,000 sized (half of it came from the guys safe in his bedroom and wasn't involved). Money was not only taken from the table but also from the players pockets and cars.
So of that $20,000. How much was actually "in play"? $10,000 for 25 people. That's an average of about $400 per person.
The police need to go solve some murders! They have enough of those around here too. Leave these people alone.
April 10, 2008 at 12:24 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
BKLYNIRISH (anonymous) says...
"Why couldn't they have used officers who were not undercover to "raid" the house?"
It is often a matter of manpower, but it is certainly a matter of specialty. This is part of what that task force does. Drugs, vice, prostitution.
Sending patrol deputies/officers is unnecessary, and perhaps even a liability.
Would you send a proctologist to do a heart transplant?
April 10, 2008 at 12:34 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
jcg04 (anonymous) says...
jlaw - I totally agree with you. You raise some good questions, that I think the P&C should address. (It must be that LBA edu.)
And for you people who really believe that crime in the city of N.C., is only the responsibility of the NCPD. That is just plain wrong. I refer you to the CCSD webpage. There you can get some additional info on the their jurisdiction. They are the Charleston COUNTY Sheriffs Dept. So yes they should share responsibility for for all the crime that happens in Charleston County.
April 10, 2008 at 12:34 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
BillMan (anonymous) says...
Bottom Line, we have the 7th most dangerous city in the US according to government statistics and local law enforcement chose to conduct a 10 month investigation into magistrate level offenses while all these serious crimes having been taking place all over Chas. county, day and night! This is unacceptable as a taxpayer, how many of those crimes could have been prevented if the poilice had focused the resources of their ten month investigation on the hard core criminal element responsible for these crimes we see on local news and read about! This is an outrage! I have always voted for Cannon but can't in good conscience again!
April 10, 2008 at 12:40 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Satanssybil2007 (anonymous) says...
Clemson1979 - yep family thing for us too! My 2 nieces and nephew and his wife all went there and all graduated, one niece still there! I am sure you know them as they too are from the Johns Island community as well and I would bet you know my oldest niece, my newphew and his wife! you are in their age bracket! Also grew up going to the church as well. have gone their all my life as has my mom, sister and her family. I guess you were subjected to the 3 "major" projects of Mr. Harris' 7th grade SC history class!
April 10, 2008 at 12:42 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Clemson1979 (anonymous) says...
Someone should tell him THOUSANDS of people in SC play poker online for money every day! I know of a dozen people who do that for a living.
April 10, 2008 at 12:44 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Clemson1979 (anonymous) says...
Small world we live in Satanssybil2007. My cousins' wife works at FBS also. Most of my extended family are Farmers. And YES, that 7th grade class kicked my butt!
April 10, 2008 at 12:50 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Satanssybil2007 (anonymous) says...
My brother-in-law is into the equestrian world instead of farmers! My nieces and nephew all rode as children in horse shows at their ranch and all over the southeast! I was never too fond of having my mom there as a teacher, heck she was my teacher for 3 years also! now that was embarrassing! It is a small world, I agree! what grade does your cousin's wife teach? If I may ask? My niece may have had her or could be looking forward to that pleasure!
April 10, 2008 at 1:01 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
BulldogTLC (anonymous) says...
jcg04 - "BulldogTLC I disagree with you on the fact, that the police cannot pick and choose which laws to uphold. Because the simple fact of the matter is that the police can pick and choose which laws they can uphold, its called DISCRETION. Have you ever been pulled over by the highway patrol for speeding then let go without a citation or with just a warning? That is what we call discretion. And if you would like, I could give you the numbers of several USC professors that would be more than happy to explain the nuances of police discretion."
Okay, jcg04, there is a huge difference in a single cop letting you off with a warning, verses a group of cops that has been dispatched to break up a gambling ring. They were following orders and had been instructed to do this. But, for what it's worth, although its none of your business, I have never been let off with a warning, nor would I expect to be if I was breaking the law. As far as your USC professors.... umm no thank you, they can't keep their football players out of jail up there. But, thanks for the offer anyway. Are you suggesting they are putting all of their efforts into keeping the faculty out of jaail? Now that, I would believe.
April 10, 2008 at 1:10 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
crankyyankee (anonymous) says...
Since the local law enforcement has repeatedly used the excuse when dealing with illegal immigration "you can't deport 30 million people it would be impossible". Maybe if every South Carolinian that has ever played a game involving dice or cards would turn themselves in, the so called law enforcement clowns would throw up their hands and treat card players with the same respect they show illegals. Then again probably not! What hold do illegals have over law enforement that makes them immune to prosecution? I'd sure like to know. If this was a game organized by Mexicans you couldn't get Al Cannon within 20 miles of the place.
April 10, 2008 at 1:11 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
BillMan (anonymous) says...
The victims of serious crimes this past year now see where local law enforcements focus was, same with the Ravenel case, that has been a 3 year investigation into a guy using cocaine at parties while countless murders have occured during that time, then we have the SC Highway Patrol playing Wild Wild West with traffic stops and breaking laws left and right, when is enough going to be enough!
April 10, 2008 at 1:19 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mominthesouth (anonymous) says...
Clemson......maybe your perfect Greenville police are not doing their job. Why don't you read your newspaper every morning and soak in the crime reports. You are a foolish person to say the things you do. These police are doing their job. They have families that respect them. Every state has laws that are old and out of date. You have the privilege of electing officals that will help change these things. First Baptist school is in the city of Charleston. Your old teacher was murdered in the city. This is not North Charleston's or Hanahan's area of service.
By the way.....Wasn't that old teacher at the Battery in the wee hours of the morning along with other questionable people? Or was he looking for a date?
April 10, 2008 at 1:21 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Rebel_Yell (anonymous) says...
Officer safety was accomplished in this case with or without the masks. By spending 10 months investigating this non-violent poker game, the officers and their superiors chose to be tough against non-violent offenders as oppossed to violent criminals who might put them at risk. I feel so much safer knowing that the cards have been dealt for the last time. I would choose one tough cop who is not afraid to go after the violent criminals over 10 cops who choose to wear masks and bust non-violent poker players. What a waste -- Barney Fife could have gotten the same result in just one week. The truth is probably that the county police wanted the income from the property and poker $ forfeiture as opposed to enforcing an outdated law because it was on the books or going after violent criminals.
p.s. Lily -- you have to read between the lines if you plan to be worth your salt. Everything happens or does not happen for a reason.
April 10, 2008 at 1:25 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Satanssybil2007 (anonymous) says...
Um hey mominthesouth - to speak ill of the dead whether what you say is fact or fiction is dispicable. That "old" teacher that clemson refers to was mine as well. and the actual term clemson meant to use, I'm sure, is "former" teacher b/c Mr. Harris was NOT OLD! No he was not with quesitonable people NOR was he looking for a date. We students of Mr. Harris all knew he got up around 3 am to have his morning coffe at the battery and go for his jog before school. Back in my day teachers had to be at FBS at 0730, i should know I had to ride with my mother for her to arrive on time to her job at FBS. Mr. Harris was a dedicated and wonderful teacher and human being! for you to suggest that he would do such a thing is insulting not only to his memory but also to those who knew him! I am ashamed to be on the same post with someone who would suggest that and you have some nerve calling you self a southers lady a/k/a mominthesouth! Clemson ignore this nut! We had the honor of having Mr. Harris grace our lives and I KNOW I am a better person for it! FBS is moving to James Island so they will not have to worry about the city cops! Now the church will - cant be a good thing!
April 10, 2008 at 1:32 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Letsberational (anonymous) says...
jcg04, you're statement is only partially true. While the County technically has jurisdiction anywhere, that is by no means the focus of their operation. Many of their major duties (i.e patrol and investigations, most importantly. Look further into that website you speak of.) are intended for the unincorporated areas. They have certain divisions that help in municipal investigations, and help when asked by cities. But the county sheriff simply does not have a lot of authority in cities.
April 10, 2008 at 1:33 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
BravesFan (anonymous) says...
I'm curious; exactly how many people does it take to investigate? Just because they used a bus load of officers to perform the raid doesn't mean all of them spent the last 10 months investigating, does it? I agree with "ted". There would have been the same number of complaints from the other side if the police simply looked the other way. I'm all for "the guys" getting together and playing cards. In fact, if they want to go in for $5 or $10, fine by me. But consistent weekly, monthly games (or however often they played) became a source of income. Illegal income, I might add. Its racketeering and it's against the law. Period. Let's change the stupid law and move forward.
April 10, 2008 at 1:43 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
lilpenny0 (anonymous) says...
BKLYN - "It is often a matter of manpower, but it is certainly a matter of specialty. This is part of what that task force does. Drugs, vice, prostitution."
I didn't read where they found any drugs or prostitutes, granted gambling is considered a vice by certain measures. And I'm sure that it does not take a task force to break up a card game. They had been investigating these people for 10 months. In that 10 months time, I'm pretty sure they were able to identify who the people were who participated in any of the games played at any one of the locations (I think 5 in total). With knowing this information (that a retired cop, currently employed cop, an assistant solicitor, and a host of business owners would be there), they still felt the need to use a special task force? Is that what you are trying to say here? People have house parties with nothing but binge drinking going on and they'll send 1 or 2 officers to the house to break up the party. Who knows what could happen with a house full of drunken folks? I'm sorry, but I just don't get why they had to send in a "task force" to break up this party. Were they expecting these folks, who they've already profiled during their 10-month investigation (I've already listed who was there), to confront them with violence?
I can understand wanting to break this up, but I believe all the hoopla was about something else besides wanting to break up a "gambling ring".
Under the Freedom of Information Act, can we obtain reports about this investigation from the police dept(s) involved? I'd like to see the flow of information about this entire thing.....from top to bottom. Anybody else?
April 10, 2008 at 2 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
jcg04 (anonymous) says...
BulldogTLC - you would't take a pass if a cop caught you speeding, thats just BS. And your use of the term "gambling ring" is quite liberal. Where is Tony Soprano when you need him? Bada Bing. And in my opinion its even worse that it was a group of cops at multiple levels from the CCSD that wasted time and money on this most recent folie. Because that just shows that at the CCSD they can put multiple heads together and still not get the common since of one average person. And I think you were really reaching with the rest of that quasi-incoherent rambling...I can see why a cop has never let you out of a ticket.
P.S. Crankyyankee - I don't think an observation can get much more honest than yours. I am glad to see that there are still rational people out there, that recognize true problems when they see them.
April 10, 2008 at 2:04 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
BravesFan (anonymous) says...
I'm ALL IN for that!...ooops, bad choice of words. Sorry.
April 10, 2008 at 2:05 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Clemson1979 (anonymous) says...
Mominthesouth....Are you kidding me? Half of your garbage I wont even mention. I lived in Chas County for 20 yrs before I moved to the Upstate. For the last darn time, I do not have a problem with cops doing their job. I have a problem with management wasting so much time and money on this issue. Greenville is not perfect, but they are MUCH more conservative up here. I would move back to the lowcountry today if I could find a job paying what I make now (which wont happen). I wish people would quit looking at pointless details, and just look at the big picture. These gamblers could have been taken care of in a week MAX. The one year long dog and pony show was a waste of time and money.
Satanssybil2007- she works w/ K4 or K5, something like that. She just married my Cousin a few months ago.
April 10, 2008 at 2:12 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
ChrisPia (anonymous) says...
MEMBERS OF THE SENATE
E-MAIL ADDRESSES
Thomas C. Alexander SGE@scsenate.org
Ralph Anderson RA@scsenate.org
Kevin L. Bryant BRYANTK@scsenate.org
Paul G. Campbell, Jr. PaulCampbell@scsenate.org
George E. "Chip"Campsen III CAMPSEN@scsenate.org
Catherine C. Ceips CEIPS@scsenate.org
Raymond E. Cleary III CLEARYR@scsenate.org
John E. Courson EDU@scsenate.org
Ronnie W. Cromer CROMERR@scsenate.org
John W. Drummond PTE@scsenate.org
Di-ck Elliott DE@scsenate.org
Michael L. Fair FAIRM@scsenate.org
Robert Ford RIF@scsenate.org
Chauncey K. Gregory SFG@scsenate.org
Lawrence K. "Larry"Grooms STR@scsenate.org
John D. Hawkins DH@scsenate.org
Robert W. Hayes, Jr. set@scsenate.org
C. Bradley Hutto CBH@scsenate.org
Darrell Jackson DJ1@scsenate.org
John M. "Jake"Knotts, Jr. SIV@scsenate.org
John C. Land III JCL@scsenate.org
Hugh K. Leatherman, Sr. SFI@scsenate.org
Phil P. Leventis PL@scsenate.org
Joel Lourie JBL@scsenate.org
Gerald Malloy MALLOYG@scsenate.org
Larry A. Martin SRU@scsenate.org
A. Shane Massey shanemassey@scsenate.org
John W. Matthews, Jr. JWM@scsenate.org
Glenn F. McConnell SJU@scsenate.org
J. Yancey McGill JYM@scsenate.org
William H. O'Dell WHO@scsenate.org
Kay Patterson KAY@scsenate.org
Harvey S. Peeler, Jr. MED@scsenate.org
Clementa C. Pinckney CCP@scsenate.org
Luke A. Rankin LR@scsenate.org
Glenn G. Reese GR@scsenate.org
James H. "Jim"Ritchie, Jr. JHR@scsenate.org
W. Greg Ryberg SLC@scsenate.org
Randy Scott SCOTTR@scsenate.org
Nikki G. Setzler NGS@scsenate.org
Vincent A. Sheheen VS@scsenate.org
Linda H. Short (Mrs. Paul) LHS@scsenate.org
David L. Thomas SBI@scsenate.org
Lewis R. Vaughn LRV@scsenate.org
Daniel B. "Danny"Verdin III SAG@scsenate.org
Kent M. Williams WILLIAMSK@scsenate.org
Lt. Gov. Andre Bauer ltgov@scsenate.org
To change The law You must contact these lawmakers.
April 10, 2008 at 2:33 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
jimmy1370 (anonymous) says...
Why is gambling bad?
April 10, 2008 at 2:34 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
ChrisPia (anonymous) says...
S.1006 is Senator Ritchie's bill that would allow health and dental benefits for the families of slain law enforcement officers.
The Senate Finance Committee meets tomorrow, Tuesday, April 8, at 3:00, to discuss S.1006. We need lots of calls and e-mails to the members of the Senate Finance Committee to ask for passage of this legislation!!!!
Get on the phone and e-mail if you want this to pass!!!!!
You can find the members of the committee on the State House website,
www.scstatehouse.net, along with their e-mail addresses.
E-MAil Addresses Above
April 10, 2008 at 2:35 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
sadjamesislandgirl (anonymous) says...
I THINK THIS SH-T IS DUMB AS HELL. I THINK AL CONNON SHOULD RESIGN AND LET SOMEONE ELSE COME IN WHO WANTS TO HELP GET CRIME OFF THE STREETS. IF THAT WOULD OF HAPPENED TO ME AT MY HOUSE I PROUBLY WOULD OF SHOT THEM THEN ASKED QUESTIONS. IT IS NOT RIGHT FOR THE POLICE TO BARG IN ON SOMEONE IN THERE HOME LIKE THAT. AL CONNON SAID IF THEY WHERE PLAYING FOR PENNIES OR NICKLES HE WOULD NOT BUST THEM BUT BECAUSE THEY USED DOLLARS AT THIS GAME THEY GOT BUSTED. IT IS UNFAIR THAT THE FIRST 8 PEOPLE TO TURN THEM SELVES IN HAD TO GO IN FRONT OF POLICE WHO WORE MASK BUT ON WED NIGHT WHEN 11 MORE TURNED THEMSELVES IN THEY WERE IN STREET CLOTHS. IF I WAS ONE OF THE FIRST 8 TO BE ARRESTED I WOULD SUE THE SH-T OUT OF CHARLESTON COUNTY.. UNFAIR JUSTICE. FOR ALL THE ONES WHO WERE ARRESTED I AM SO SORRY WE HAVE POLICE OFFICERS OUT THERE NOT PROTECTING US FROM THE REAL CRIMMINALS. I HOPE YOU WIN YOUR CASE AND I HOPE AL CANNON GETS WHATS COMING TO HIM.....
April 10, 2008 at 2:38 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
theronce (anonymous) says...
Gambling is not new here. I remember "casino" type games and tables back in the late 60's and early 70's in the North Charleston and Goose Creek area.
April 10, 2008 at 2:44 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Girleygirl (anonymous) says...
With that comment Jamesislandgirl- you just answered why the police came in the way they did......because you would be ready to shot them! Trust me they would have shot you back so you would not even have to ask questions about the warrants they served.....
Not only that instead of being sad you might have been dead....cmon now...please tell me you are venting and not for real about shooting up police.
April 10, 2008 at 2:48 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
jcg04 (anonymous) says...
Letsberational...I guess the limited jurisdiction you speak of does not apply in the municipality of Hanahan! And if their major duties include patrol and investigation, and this is the best they can do, thats just sad. I want my tax money back! BCSD busting Meth Labs - CCSD busting people playing cards.
Now which guys do think are making a difference? CCSD should wear mask to hide the shame they should feel for shirking their responsibility to protect and serve the community.
April 10, 2008 at 2:49 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
outrage (anonymous) says...
sadjamesislandgirl - Check the 4th amendment.
April 10, 2008 at 3 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
BillMan (anonymous) says...
How many hard core criminals were left to savage us because of the 3 year investigation into Thomas Ravenel's cocaine parties, and how many muggings and robberies occured because local law enforcement were more concerned about busting up a card game for the last 10 months! The ski masks are because they are ashamed about dumping our tax dollars down the drain so they can play Wild Wild West parties in people's homes!
April 10, 2008 at 3:09 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
mominthesouth (anonymous) says...
You are a sad James Island girl. First of all, you could use a little more education. Maybe a grammer lesson would help. Oh....I am sorry, that is what that James Island taught you.
What would your comment be if there were weapons involved and someone got shot? There are children living and playing in the neighborhood. Many of these so called innocent men have prior records. They knew what they were doing was wrong. They need to suck it up and take it like a respectable (or not) citizen. After they pay their dues, they can vote for new laws.
April 10, 2008 at 3:24 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
SJ1 (anonymous) says...
Easy there Harpo. Not everyone in this state is as brain-dead as sadjamesislandgirl. If you're that unhappy with this states residents then I strongly suggest that you move. And although, the "dis is a lawsuit" thing was funny, it certainly isn't typical of the entire state. Need help packing?
April 10, 2008 at 3:31 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
sadjamesislandgirl (anonymous) says...
GIRLYGIRL
I WAS NOT SAYING I WOULD SHOOT POLICE BUT HOW DID THEY KNOW THAT WHO THEY WERE? YOU GONNA TELL ME THAT IF SOMEONE CAME INTO YOUR HOUSE WEARING SKY MASK THAT YOU WOULD NOT BE SCARED TO DEATH? TRUST ME IN THESE TIMES AND DAYS YOU CAN NOT BE TO CAREFUL. AS YOU CAN SEE THERE ARE ALOT OF PUBLIC OFFICALS THAT ARE NOT 100% PERFECT.
April 10, 2008 at 3:45 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Clemson1979 (anonymous) says...
MOMintheSouth....Why dont you move to California with the rest of your kind. I am sick of your stupid insults. What is wrong with a James Island education? I know what sadJIgirl meant. and I agree with her, somewhat. If a person in a ski mask runs into my house, I will shoot him dead no questions asked....ONLY if they do not announce who they are first. Who wouldnt?
April 10, 2008 at 3:46 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
RMabry (anonymous) says...
BKLYNIRISH - Good comments, an acquaintance of mine who works at the CCSD said the exact same thing you did about CPD (upper management thing, etc) although they would love to get their hands on Former Charleston Police Officer Daniel Hiers. As I am sure anyone would... anyways the wearing-the-mask thing though seems a little overkill-ish for these crimes:sort of a like a paramilitary-Gestapo- raid -for-al qaeda but this was for citizens who committed misdemeanors.
Is this a battle (resources, manpower for this gambling thing) that can change us from being the 4th most dangerous state or a better state to raise our children (we're in the bottom 10 for worst state to raise children)? We need to focus our priorities.
I'm sure I'll some get flack on this but (keeping in mind this misdemeanor has a maximum penalty of $100.00 and/or 30 days in jail) I really don't think the policeman or the prosecutor should be suspended or terminated. I'm serious. Now the officer that beat the crap out of the disabled man should have his police certification pulled (if he hasn't already).
I do agree with almost everyone one here that leadership changes do need to occur in our law enforcement in the tri-county areas. No change means exactly the same thing for our community and state for the next decade.
April 10, 2008 at 4 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Girleygirl (anonymous) says...
Okay JamesIslandgirl- I understand what you are saying now but your 1st post shows how angry you are and I was thinking you were going to start shooting after being served with a warrant. That's not good of course.....
I think the police learned a lot from that little old lady in Atlanta that was shot when the cops did NOT announce who they were...
But to answer your question of course I would be scared but once I found out who, what, and why all I can do is be mad at myself for getting caught.
April 10, 2008 at 4:05 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
sadjamesislandgirl (anonymous) says...
CLEMSON1979
Well said. There is nothing wrong with a James Island Education. And by the way MOMintheSouth any education is better than none. Why do you put down James Island so bad. I was just trying to say that if it was my kouse and people came in my house wearing ski mask then i am gonna take action. Do you not read the paper where the REAL crime is. Playing cards is not hurting anyone. People who kill other people do, I think the police should use their time in more useful ways by catching the REAL CRIMMINALS. I hate to have watch over my back all the time due to real crimminals that are migging elderly people and kids shooting other kids due to drugs. How dare you imply that I have no education. My friend you need to get a life. I also believe you should tell everyone who lives on JAMES ISLAND that you are VERY SORRY and that you are an idiot.
April 10, 2008 at 4:09 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
sadjamesislandgirl (anonymous) says...
Girleygirl
yes they did get caught but I feel they handled this in the wrong way. Look at todays paper another SC Police Officer is accused of lude acts on a minor. Where is the justice?
The people who are supposed to be protecting us are the ones in all the trouble. I think the Police needs to investagating there own poeple due to all the talk of so many Police Officers being accused of all different kind of crimes. WHy dont they spend 10 mo. investagating that?
Dont you agree?
April 10, 2008 at 4:13 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Girleygirl (anonymous) says...
There are alot of things the police can do more of. I will agree with you on that JamesIslandgirl, but I just can't say what the police should have, could have, would have, or need to do in this case. Yes I think its a stupid law, and I will agree that it needs to be changed, but I know that it won't be changed anytime too soon.
I also like to play poker, but if I get caught all I can do is say "damn they got me." I will just pay my fine and let it go....no need to hire a lawyer and say yeah I know I was wrong, but........
You see my point.
Fight the law to get it changed before you get caught up, but in the mean time if you are still doing the same thing that you got cited for and get caught again then shame on me/you...not the police.
There is a couple of bad apples that can mess it up for everyone no matter what profession you are in...I won't say all police officers need to be checked out because of one officer trying to find pleasure from a kid...we could say the same thing about some of our teachers as well since they are prone to molesting kids too, right?
April 10, 2008 at 4:48 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
sadjamesislandgirl (anonymous) says...
Girleygril,
You are so right. I play Black Jack also but I still feel that they (POLICE) should and could of handled it in a different way. I just think it is so stupid that they wasted all that money for people playing cards rather than invest it in cases like murders and drugs and people who should not even be in this country.
April 10, 2008 at 4:55 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
forget (anonymous) says...
They committed a crime. Bottom line.
The reason (I believe) that this got busted the way it did is because when there's gambling, there's usually drinking. When the gambling is involving large sums of money there's usually weapons somewhere. Now we're mixing gambling, alcohol, guns and losing a large chunk of change. What may possibly be the next crime committed?
Ok? Now, next scenario. Someone else of dubious charactor gets wind of this large gaming operation going on, and decides that this would be an easy hit. Now we have someone going in with a gun, probably guns on the inside, and mixed with a little alcohol. We can guess what happens next.
Just an opinion....
And besides, I wouldn't want this business being conducted next door to me in my neighborhood, either. The neighbors probably got this ball rolling.
April 10, 2008 at 5:06 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
BulldogTLC (anonymous) says...
jcg04 - Never said I wouldn't take a pass, just said I'd never been given one. And I would never ask for one if I knew that I was breaking the law, which these people have admitted to. As far as my use of the term gambling ring, I would say that is pretty much spot on. It was an organized group that had regular games at regular spots. And actually what the CCSD did was put multiple heads together and realize that laws were being broken and did their job of enforcing those laws. If you don't like the laws, do something to get them changed. Don't whine when the cops do their job.
April 10, 2008 at 5:14 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
ChrisPia (anonymous) says...
RMabry...I was told by a couple of Friends Whom are law enforcement that If a law enforcement official gets caught gambling they are fired under the law. Even the lottery...
Does anyone know if this is a law?
April 10, 2008 at 5:23 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
BillMan (anonymous) says...
How come my comments get no love, I think I'm one of the more thought out people on here!
April 10, 2008 at 6 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
ChrisPia (anonymous) says...
Billman...You have some valid points about Violent Crime.I Don't think that anyone is not for resources going towards this...I have made my points and took alot of hits on this one.I understand the resources issue. I don't however want to bash the Police for doing policework without complaints of Corruption or abuse. The amount of people and money involved and NO complaints......They did their job and did it well.
The Lawmakers dropped the ball on this and the police are getting the beating.
April 10, 2008 at 6:21 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
wegwam (anonymous) says...
forget,
with all your what's next crap i can see how you can overlook that this was a 10 month investigation. since you laid the natural progression of playing poker as leading to someone getting killed, why didnt it happen? this has been going on for how long? at least 10 months and i never heard about someone getting killed, robbed, shanked or any thing else.
perspective,
since when did the govt provide me with every liberty? not in my lifetime. in fact over the past 100 years the only thing i can think of that the govt has done is take away liberties.
as for every pleasurable moment. are you kidding? ha. law enforcement has, by not enforcing the law, enabled me to have pleasurable moments though.
April 10, 2008 at 6:42 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Perspective (anonymous) says...
Chrispia - I think I heard that the attorney general sent out an opinion the law enforcement can play the lottery (I think).
Jlaw knows everything, ask him. (ps - jlaw, I think each player paid the house for every hand. So that more than covers food and drink.) They were operating an illegal casino in a residential neighborhood. Maybe it was a little overkill, but I support Al Cannon for shutting it down. Who needs all those people parking in your yard and bring all that crap next door.
"No son, they are not having another late night birthday party. Our neighbors are operating a victimless illegal casino next door to us. Next week they are bringing in some hookers for entertainment."
April 10, 2008 at 6:47 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
jimmy1370 (anonymous) says...
I guess I'll ask again. Why is gambling bad?
April 10, 2008 at 7:15 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
BKLYNIRISH (anonymous) says...
Ssshhh, Jimmy. Everybody is too busy cop-bashing to answer your question.
April 10, 2008 at 7:39 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
miked1199 (anonymous) says...
Again why do they not arrest anyone who buys a card game at any store in the area / a card game is a card game so lets not worry about any money and arrest a 7 yr old buying a board game at toys r us. enforce the laws across the board ...But thats what we have selective enforcement .. we can rack in millions if we do it by the books and thats what it is all about taxs without state approval
April 10, 2008 at 8:50 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
bootlicked (anonymous) says...
Police officer gets caught gambling and gets time off without pay. Rusty Ranger CFD Capt. exposses himself in city vehicle and gets time off with pay. Look up Dale Jenkins record. What is wrong with this picture?
April 10, 2008 at 8:56 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
bootlicked (anonymous) says...
Why was he ever a Capt. on the CFD ? I know why because he would be perfect for Rusty to lead. Rusty loves promoting guys like him because he is a person that wouldn't question Rusty's leadership.Just like the teacher that he hired from James Island. Rusty and his followers need to go. Twenty -two people have left the CFD since June 18th. I wonder why? If you are concerened about your safety you might start paying attention. Riley tonight talked about how capable Rusty is. Stop by your nearest station and ask the men and women of the CFD how good of a job he has done. Remember these guys need your support. They are the ones who risk life and limb for the citizens of Charleston not Rusty Thomas !!!!!!!!!!! This is the calm before the storm Riley. You think throwing them a bone has the wool pulled over their eyes don't you? Get ready to raise taxes again.
April 10, 2008 at 9:14 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
teachme (anonymous) says...
A crime is a crime, regardless of how petty you may personally believe it to be.
Until the law is changed, one has to be willing to face up to the consequences if one engages in deemed illegal behavior. It appears that there is alot of crying and whining like children that have gotten caught with their hand in the cookie jar.
Granted it may only be a misdemeanor and I'm sure the emabarassment of having one's name posted publically as a criminal offender is more painful than the imposed fine, but gambling is not a victimless crime. How many times have we read about children dying in hot vehicles while parents went inside to gamble, play gaming machines, etc? Sometimes games that seem innocent enough at first lead to damaging addictions later that usually lead to victims other than the participants themselves.
Being that people in today's society cannot take responsiblity for their actions and want to shove off the blame on the police, teachers, television, rock music and an assorted laundry list of ills, maybe the solution is too create even more laws that further restrict the freedoms that we attempt to manipulate for self gratification.
April 10, 2008 at 10:10 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Dooley2 (anonymous) says...
The officers were breaking the law too.
South Carolina Code of Laws
Title 16 - Crimes and Offenses
CHAPTER 7
OFFENSES AGAINST THE PEACE
SECTION 16-7-110. Wearing masks and the like.
No person over sixteen years of age shall appear or enter upon any lane, walk, alley, street, road, public way or highway of this State or upon the public property of the State or of any municipality or county in this State while wearing a mask or other device which conceals his identity. Nor shall any such person demand entrance or admission to or enter upon the premises or into the enclosure or house of any other person while wearing a mask or device which conceals his identity. Nor shall any such person, while wearing a mask or device which conceals his identity, participate in any meeting or demonstration upon the private property of another unless he shall have first obtained the written permission of the owner and the occupant of such property.
April 11, 2008 at 2:21 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
lillycollette (anonymous) says...
Some members of the public idly question the ability of LEO to effectively "prioritize" what laws should be investigated or ignored on the allegation that funds are so tight that this has to be done.
Then in the next breath they complain and make unsupported allegations of "selective enforcement" of the law-which was they had just said was needed (priorities).
And all this no-brainer double speak in the face of a numbers of articles on a wide variety of cases being handled by LEO disproving all the double speak flatulence.
Go figure.
April 11, 2008 at 8:12 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
lady_emery (anonymous) says...
Oh cmon, gambling is everywhere...
This is one of the few times a bust happens, compared to the times busts "do not happen".
Usually, many cops do it for press release. Lol. No offense.
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June 4, 2008 at 4 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
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