CFD sends chiefs for training

THISMUSTSTOP (anonymous) says...

Why would they need to learn a new way? I thought the Mayor said that the Fire Department's Command was a "Model!"

...turns out that it is a "Model"...for what not to do on a fire scene!!!!!!!! (folks, please don't think that the SSS fire is the only one where these tactics were used. This retardedness went on every fire but it took 9 guys & CNN to get anyone to listen. Shame on you Riley, SHAME!!!)

Why would they waste the money and effort of sending Rusty up there? His career has to be washed up. I'd bet he couldn't get a job as a Volunteer Chief right now.

Just leave Rusty, PLEASE!!! Just go away!!!

September 6, 2007 at 1:39 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Neponset (anonymous) says...

You have to give credit to the P&C - they just keep these articles coming and won't let this story die. I am sure that this article will draw another 100 hard comments.

September 6, 2007 at 6:01 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mggoose2000 (anonymous) says...

Hind Sight being what it is, we must, as a society accept that we live in an imperfect world. Mistakes were made, by the store owner, the CFD and possibly the Mayor, but do we really want to slander a man's name like THISMUSTSTOP did in his comment? THISMUSTSTOP, if you lost someone close in this tragedy, then I understand your anger and you have my deepest sympathies. Yet, why would you want to ruin a man's reputation and destroy his credibility? Do you think that this will bring your loved one back? Let go and forgive. We all fall short of perfection, even you.

September 6, 2007 at 6:56 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Neponset (anonymous) says...

mggoose2000
Rusty is the reason the CFD is not up to snuff and his hard headed old ways will not be changed by some brief training course. If Rusty does not go, the training of the commanders will be just window dressing and it will be business as usual.

September 6, 2007 at 7:25 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

bickleseagrave (anonymous) says...

Back to the P&C article. This is a very positive step, you have to start somewhere and it appears this training facility is top notch. The way they are learning is also good, with formal classroom training, simulators and mentoring with the local department. Give them the benefit of the doubt now that they are starting to take some of the necessary steps to bring the CFD up to date. Let's just hope all this new info is brought back to the CFD, passed on, new SOG's written and IMPLEMENTED!

September 6, 2007 at 7:36 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Pluffmuddy (anonymous) says...

mggoose,

Forgiveness is a wonderful thing, but I think you're far too generous in this situation. While public figures may not be the experts they claim to be, they nevertheless assume full responsibility and are ultimately accountable to their electors when they take the job. As far as credibility is concerned, the Mayor and Chief have destroyed their own through their actions, inaction, and incompetence. This situation has merely brought their deficiencies to light. It's grievous that 9 died to prove the point.

September 6, 2007 at 7:49 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

idennis (anonymous) says...

Rusty was Wilmonts right hand man for years and years...
CFD hasn't changed in many decades.
I like Rusty as a person but new blood at the top will bring us more up to date on correct procedures. But not another yes man or good ole boy.
Now with that said we must get past all this, learn and correct the outdated practices and get a good chain of command that's not overruled or runs scared.

September 6, 2007 at 7:58 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

trinitytim (anonymous) says...

mggoose...

You're loyalty to this failed chief seems to be misplaced and you must in denial. Anyone that allows 9 people to die needlessly in a fire, short of an incident like 9/11 should not be in command. It's time for this chief to go.

I'm glad that some of these chiefs are going to Montgomery County, one of the best fire departments in the country, but these guys are incompetent, autocratic and they need to retire. If they had any integrity at all they would resign.

September 6, 2007 at 8:40 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mggoose2000 (anonymous) says...

Neponset and Pluffmuddy,
Thank you for your respectful thoughts. I appreciated that you didn't turn this into a name calling and finger pointing issue. Not living in the City of Charleston, I am probably naive about the goings on in the CFD, but, aren't we being a little hasty in condemning one man? If "the fish rots at the head first", then there are more to be held accountable than just Rusty. If there is a complacent attitude in the CFD, then let's fix it. To ruin a man's reputation; that is a little too far left for me. This man has been working in this profession all of his life. Think what it would do to you if you suddenly found yourself without a job and the only profession that you knew was slamming doors in your face. It would seem that Rusty is a product of the system that he works in. If it has failed him and others in the CFD, let's fix it. Then, if he refuses to change and adopt new ideas and training methods, the blame lies with him.

September 6, 2007 at 8:57 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

bvfd271 (anonymous) says...

I agree with the first comment posted,why does the VFD need this training if thier Command structure is a Model for all Departments around the Country?An definite example of how not to handle a major incident,if it were a hazardous materials incident,the loss of life and number of injuries and exposure would have been much greater than the SSS fire.CFD does need resh new leadership,a Chief hired from outside the Department,young with strict standards of safety and training,sorry residents of Charleston,you won't have a FireDepartment you can depend on to save your life and property until a new Chief is hired.

September 6, 2007 at 9:05 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

vesta (anonymous) says...

In an article which appeared beside this article, but which is not posted on here, Riley blasts OSHA for telling the City that the uniforms were acceptable in 2003 and again last week and that the uniforms complied with state regulations. The mayor is irate that OSHA would now CHANGE THEIR STATEMENT and he calls it "revisionism at its worst." Well, Mayor Riley, we could rank it right up there with your statement, right after the fire that the CFD is the top ff department in the nation to the statement you made after the panel gave you their results, the statement that changes need to be made. And now you are sending your chiefs for training (thank goodness, but a little late for nine men) which would indicate that the CFD is NOT the top ff department in the nation. ARE THOSE STATEMENTS of yours also not revisionism. Wake up people of Charleston....do not sleep through the November election.

September 6, 2007 at 9:12 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

intheknow (anonymous) says...

I don't think 4 days of training is going to somehow change 30-plus years of ingrained habits.

September 6, 2007 at 9:24 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

LeeWalton9 (anonymous) says...

Trinitytim, idennis, bvfd271, Harpo: How are y'all so certain of things that you write about? Are you in the CFD and know its operation and management? Or, are just speculating--without full knowledge of things? Everybody has a right to an opinion even when you are wrong or have another agenda.

Anybody who knows Chief Thomas knows he is a dedicated, smart and competent manager. That is why the CFD is ISO-1.

Give the guy the credit and respect he is earned.

September 6, 2007 at 9:29 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

bickleseagrave (anonymous) says...

Just out of curiosity, what ranks comprise the 18 senior officers, Battalion Chiefs and above? Are they really going to pass the info on? The Captain's should be taking this training as well so the information can be passed on directly to the crews.
As I said above this training is great, but a fresh new forward thinking administration should be implemented as well.

September 6, 2007 at 9:29 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

exorcist_pencocky (anonymous) says...

The city of charleston fire chief didn't just loose a fire hose, didn't just loose a contest between fire departments, 9 firemen died, people like you and me. I'm sure he is upset and remorseful. Any person would and should be. The bottom line is that he is not fit for that position and since other firemens' lives are at risk he should be removed from it, immediately. He is a risk that the city of charleston can do without. Or at least put him back to rookie fireman in some other department, so he can learn.

September 6, 2007 at 9:30 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

bigbrotheriswatching (anonymous) says...

One of the best departments according to the mayor...is all of a sudden in need of training??? Now who's judgement is in question...we can't let him continue this charade...join us in getting rid of the both of them (rusty and the mayor)...
http://youtube.com/share?v=umfO8upIIBo

September 6, 2007 at 9:38 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

traley (anonymous) says...

Remove Joe Riley from office and then Rusty will follow. Chief Thomas should have removed himself. I understand he may be a good man who coaches baseball and makes chili with some of the DJs around here; but he "ain't" it as a Fire Chief. I read your comments here and in the P&C and you cannot seem to separate the "good" man from the "lousy" Fire Chief. Before training; there needs to be a house cleaning.

September 6, 2007 at 9:45 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

exorcist_pencocky (anonymous) says...

Up till now, the city of charleston mayor riley has helped keep the firefighters without sufficient equipment and training. Why mayor riley?

The city of charleston mayor riley has kept fire chief thomas in a position of authority. Why mayor riley?

To the mayor of the city of charleston I pose this question.
Since you are a board member of the city of charleston Commissioners of Public Works (newly renamed Charleston Water) perhaps you would care to explain the rational for putting the connection and impact fees for fire suppression sprinkler systems so astronomically high.

When you saw the disaster that action helped cause, one word from you and the rates fell immediately. You are a member of the board and voted on raising them, mayor riley. Did any member resist the increases?

Fire suppression sprinkler systems have saved both firemens and civilians lives when installed. You gave business owners an out.

The city of charleston awaits your answer, sir.

September 6, 2007 at 10:04 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

trinitytim (anonymous) says...

ISO 1 in limited areas only.

The mayor needs to go followed shortly thereafter by this chief. Leewalton why aren't you more concerned with the men and women of the CFD and protecting them from the same leadership that killed 9 of them. Perhaps you have something to lose if the chief goes?

September 6, 2007 at 10:04 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

oldcap (anonymous) says...

Chief Thomas is a joke among those of us in the department and everyone on the outside.

He's done so well that his department is in the midst of being reorganized by outide people. He's so respected that at the Firehouse Expo he was the butt of jokes by other fire chiefs.

Yeah he's done a great job of leading the department right into the 19th century.

September 6, 2007 at 10:29 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

juniemoon1957 (anonymous) says...

Although I know nothing of firefighting....I know a little about mangagement and bad managers and poor leaders. One thing for sure....A LEOPARD NEVER NEVER CHANGES IT's SPOTS.

September 6, 2007 at 10:32 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

nickiegarbeil (anonymous) says...

TrinityTim,

Exactly...a VERY small portion of City of Charleston is ISO 1. And it is an INSURANCE RATING...not a gauge of how well the department is trained or are managed...THAT can be seen on how this fire was handled. The men on the line in the CFD are very good FFs, but they can only do what they are allowed to do. There is already evidence that change that IS coming is done so grudgingly...and THAT DOES come from the FF's in the CFD. Not through word of mouth, but from their mouth to MY ears.

September 6, 2007 at 10:32 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

burton (anonymous) says...

The chief is a lame duck chief. There is no way he can effectively command his dept after this. Once you lose the faith and confidence of those under you, you have to step down. If he stays, there will be major morale issues in the CFD. There will be power plays going on. After a tragic incident where 9 firemen died at one time and reports show the lack of command training and structure, how in the world do you keep the chief in his position? This is a slap in the face to the families and the men and women of the CFD. You have to do a nationwide search and bring in a new chief with progressive thoughts and ideas.

Someone must be held accountable. If it doesn't start with the chief, then who? Shame on you King Riley for keeping the chief in his position. What about your subjects on City Council? Why aren't any of them demanding that the chief resigns?

Voters in the City of Charleston, if you reelect King Riley you deserve everything that he has been doing to you for the last 32 years! Let me reemphasize that: 32 years! Mercy!

September 6, 2007 at 10:48 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

trinitytim (anonymous) says...

well said burton. I agree.

I am not a firefighter but I have led men in dangerous and chaotic situations as a police commander. When a leader loses the confidence of his/her command that leader is finished. Resignation or termination is in order to prevent future problems.

Start fresh with competent leadership, spend the money to get the best equipment and give them the tools they need by training them. This will save lives and preven injuries.

September 6, 2007 at 11:07 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

traumajunkie15 (anonymous) says...

Their ISO rating is being reviewed also at this time. LeeWalton, Rusty is a politician. He has no concerns about dedication to his FFs or any1 else but Riley. As I said before Riley and Rusty will fix the issues that come in the public light just to be able to "appease" the voting public. All their other dirty little secrets will remain just that.
Mggoose... I did lose some1 that horrible day. I lost 9 friends, family members they are considered. And yes I blame Rusty for his negligence in training amongst other things. So until you walk a mile in my shoes I suggest you reconsider standing up for a man that is willing to risk more lives just to make Mayor A**hole Riley happy. They have made themselves look stupid. Rusty started that night at the fire scene by taking over IC and then losing his damn head.
Lets not forget who Rustys predecessor is...his own father

September 6, 2007 at 11:59 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

trinitytim (anonymous) says...

traumajunie15...

My heart goes out to you. I know how hard it is to lose a friend in the line of duty. I can only imagine how losing 9 would be.

I have a son who is a firefighter/paramedic in Florida and I attended 4 of the funerals of your CFD friends. A terrible weekend that was and one that I believe was unnecessary.

You and the entire CFD ae in my prayers.

September 6, 2007 at 12:10 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

trinitytim (anonymous) says...

Harpo...

Would they print letters to the editor in the print edition? I don't subscribe so I don't know.

Maybe it's time to move these comments to letters and use the USPS to get the word out.

September 6, 2007 at 12:27 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

traumajunkie15 (anonymous) says...

Maybe around election time some of the better ones will become posters, his comments and ours. Thank you trinitytim for your support and every1 elses. 8 funerals in the span of alittle more than a week was devistating, I hope to never do it again. We just have to keep their memories alive and continue or push on getting Joe and Rusty gone. Thanx also to the P&C for their continued "heat" on this subject. I hope they will not let it die until we see some real results.

September 6, 2007 at 12:38 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

traumajunkie15 (anonymous) says...

To see a very nice memorial page go to www.myspace.com/charlestonfirefighters. If unable to get to it this way go to my page www.myspace.com/traumajunkie15 under my friends its listed as the charleston 9 FD memorial page

September 6, 2007 at 1:24 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Neponset (anonymous) says...

LeeWalton9
I believe these are your words:
"Anybody who knows Chief Thomas knows he is a dedicated, smart and competent manager."
I am not with CFD and only read the P&C and read the hundreds of comments by FF. After digesting all of the above, I come to the conclusion that Rusty is not smart and not competent. The overwhelming cry is for Rusty to just leave and I feel sure that Joe feels the heat and is working on easing Rusty out.

September 6, 2007 at 1:45 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

angeleyez0818 (anonymous) says...

Instead of hearing that they are sending old dogs to learn new tricks, which they may perform for a short time just to appease people; they need to remove Thomas. The panel should clean house, start from scratch, with new people that actually give a S**t. What is Rusty going to learn? It's just another hoop for him to jump through to make it look like he's doing the right thing.(If not simply for Riley's campaign this fall.) It is far too little much too late. Wasting taxpayers money to send people that aren't going to benefit from the training. Unfortunately I won't be able to vote in November either, but I can only hope that the city does the right thing by removing Riley and Thomas since they are too pigheaded not to just step down.

And as far as morale? I think that it would be a boost for these guys. They lost nine of their brothers, and god forbid something as disasterous as the fire at the SSS happens again, they have to rely on him...AGAIN? I DOUBT they want that. With a new chief they may actually get the training and leadership that they need!

September 6, 2007 at 1:52 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

captivated (anonymous) says...

King Riley, if you really love Charleston like you say you do, then resign or do not run in the next election. Go away and take Rusty with you. The CFD procedural manuals are'nt the only things that need upgrading around here. My condolences to traumajunkie15 and all the families and fellow fire fighters of the Charleston 9.

September 6, 2007 at 1:54 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

trinitytim (anonymous) says...

traumajunkie15...

I love your tribute page. I sent you a friends request from my site.

September 6, 2007 at 2:10 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

masmith53 (anonymous) says...

I'm not harpo, but yes trinitytim they would.

September 6, 2007 at 3:12 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

vesta (anonymous) says...

trinitytim: In addition to what Nickie said, ISO is more a "quantity" rather than a "quality" training. For example, if a CFD ff follows a BC around for half an hour, Rusty might consider this "1/2 hours worth of training". Exactly what type of training the BC has had is immaterial or exactly what was explained to the ff, etc. The records would show "1/2 hour worth of training for a ff from a BC." It is my understanding that the individual who gave the CFD an ISO rating of #1 had never given any other fire department a #1 rating. This statement by itself sounds like the CFD must really have been worthy of the class #1; however, the individual who issued the #1 rating was retiring and setting up a consulting business to help various fire departments achieve lower ratings. One might ponder this for a while. The higher the ISO number, the worse shape the fire department is in and, therefore would cause local businesses to be insurance risks. This is a rating used by insurance companies to evaluate what they (the insurance companies) should charge businesses and residents in premiums. ISO does not operate at the behest of any fire agency, national or otherwise, but rather for the benefit of insurance companies. Please bear that in mind when the Mayor continually repeats this rating in his speeches.

September 6, 2007 at 3:50 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

trinitytim (anonymous) says...

Vesta...

Thank you for the information. It was very helpful. I have been discussing this with my FL firefighter son and between his take on things and the information on these boards, I think I'm getting a pretty good handle on what's going on in the CFD.

September 6, 2007 at 3:57 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

vesta (anonymous) says...

trinitytim: you are welcome. Also, with regard to letters to the editor: although there have been at least four letters to the editor lauding the praises of Chief Thomas, none have appeared which have been negative. I do know at least four letters, which did not praise the Chief, were submitted to the P&C. It is possible, in this day and age of lawsuits, that the P&C are looking out for the interests of the writers to not become involved in some type of libelous action. Letters to the editor can be accessed through the P&C's main page and I believe it allows the individual to also access archives of Letters to the Editor. If memory serves me, one individual wrote a letter last week about his admiration of Chief Thomas. You can also access original articles immediately following the SSS fire along with the comments made to these articles up to the present time.

September 6, 2007 at 4:19 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

trinitytim (anonymous) says...

don't buy the lawsuit argument. Letters to the editor do not reflect the opinions of the newspaper and are thereby not admissable as evidence in any lawsuit against the paper. If the negative letters were not published, I would be very suspicious of a cover up and I'd be a little worried about what's going on.

You all who are opposed to the re-election of the mayor, might want to get serious because time is growing short. If the support for this mayor and his chief are not countered, you may have the same administration in place for another full term.

Now that is scary.

September 6, 2007 at 5:02 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

oldcap (anonymous) says...

A number of guys heard several chiefs knocking Montgomery County as a "volly" club.

September 6, 2007 at 5:30 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

jammer (anonymous) says...

you people are actually expecting Riley to admit wrong, fire thomas and most of his commanders, and then step down himself?? you must be kidding me...

he didn't tell greenberg to go until he beat on a citizens car putting dents in it, and even then it took him awhile to decide to go through with it

riley won't do anything, thomas will stay in place and all the commanders that failed will still be right there because they think everyone has short memories and will ultimately forgive and forget

you can't get rid of bad people in this city or county, unless you catch them red handed doing something illegal they all stay where they are at no matter how incompetent... for decades

they'll take a cpl classes and pat each other on the back and move on

nothing seems to be able to encroach on the good ole boy system, not even tragedy like this

September 6, 2007 at 5:35 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

trinitytim (anonymous) says...

Oldcap...

I'm not sure what you mean by a "volly" club but I worked in the adjacent pd there for a long time. In my opinion they have a very professional operation. High standards and I have always been very impressed with the way they operate. I actually taught them driver training for awhile. They are a very good and professional department.

I don't know what chiefs you overheard but if that's what they're claiming, I wouldn't expect them to come back with any changes in attitude or behavior. Sounds like there setting this trip up for failure even before it begins. That tells me they have no desire to change and the status quo will continue unchanged in Charleston.

I would trust Montgomery County with my life. In fact I actually did once and they performed great.

September 6, 2007 at 5:53 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

angeleyez0818 (anonymous) says...

Tim thanks for the input. I'm with you though. Too bad it's being wasted on people that won't change.

Jammer: you're right about the good ole boy system, but if enough people start banging fists at least we can help change the outcome of the elections and get them out of there. November is just one and a half short months away.

September 6, 2007 at 6:19 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

east4 (anonymous) says...

someone in our training division was heard to say that the panel was B^&^SH*% and they had no idea what that were talking about. Now they are up against someone who is in a leadership position put there by rusty, and also will be teaching the new techniques that the panel recommends. WOW now that is really messed up. If they don't believe it then how are we suppose to get the right info that may save our life someday????

September 6, 2007 at 6:46 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

charleytowngirl (anonymous) says...

mggoose2000 and LeeWalton9:

Thomas ruined his own reputation.

His comments, his arrogance (that his way is the right way), the nepotism in the department, acts of retribution against his men who have spoken out against him....all of this and much more have led citizens and FF's to our opinion.

Again, make no mistake...he did it to himself. He hung himself immediately after the fire....did not take a lot of rope to do it.

September 6, 2007 at 6:48 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

exorcist_pencocky (anonymous) says...

The city of charleston mayor riley and fire chief rusty both, shame the good memories of 9 firefighter heroes.

"Hey, Hey, Ho, Ho, little joe has got to go ............ Hey, Hey, Ho, Ho, little joe has got to go."

September 6, 2007 at 7:30 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

THISMUSTSTOP (anonymous) says...

mggoose2000 & LeeWalton9,

Let's say that we all lived in a town that had this old Doctor that had been around forever. This doctor was very respected in the town and everyone knew him. Everyone thought he was great the way he helped people with runny noses, sore throats and scraped knees. (note: all of these things will fix themselves without any help from a doctor) He was well known at town functions, sports games and was the life of any party that he attended. He lent people money when they were down. He didn't make poor people pay for Dr. visits.

This Doctor went to medical school about 30yrs. Ago. He didn't need any continuing education because he had more experience than any other doctor in town.

Then one day someone burst into his office crying for help on the dock with someone that had been pulled from the water and was not breathing. The good doctor reaches into the recesses of his brain to recall some far away training that he received. He lays the victim on his stomach and proceeds to pound on his back. (this used to be the method for clearing the airway of a drowning victim)

After the funeral several doctors in the area are rumored to be having meetings about the way the beloved old Doctor handled the drowning victim. Members of the public were starting to ask the same questions.

Was the Doctors' education outdated? Did these outdated procedures still work? Would newer procedures have possibly saved this drowning victim?

Some investigative journalists uncover some evidence that the old Doctors ability to practice medicine had been questioned years earlier. Also noting that the Doctor had been invited to attend ongoing training for the past 20 years but had never attended. When questioned about these things the doctor volunteered that he didn't need that nonsense. In fact he even showed them the stack of unanswered invitations from the last 20 years. He stated, "he was a good Doctor and that's all anyone needs to know." He continues, "I'm the best Doctor in town and probably even the country. Are you a Doctor? How could you question my ability? Were you there on the dock that day? I would do the same thing again tomorrow if summoned to the dock for another drowning."

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Would argue that this Doctor should continue to practice medicine? Would you trust your family's health to this Doctor?

September 6, 2007 at 7:58 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

nitelite (anonymous) says...

whoa thismuststop.... you hit it right on the head...but people must mobilize and take action...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=umfO8upIIBo

September 6, 2007 at 8:08 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

THISMUSTSTOP (anonymous) says...

Sorry about the many errors with my story. I don't know how everyone else writes stories or uses words or puts sentences together, but my writing style has evolved over the years and it works for me. I'm the best writer I know. It doesn't matter how everyone else writes, I'm the best. I wouldn't change a thing with my writing style. There are no pre-written sentences in my writing, I write every word myself. No proof reading! No spell check! No grammer check! I'm the most dedicated writer around. I'll never quit writing.

September 6, 2007 at 8:11 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

nickiegarbeil (anonymous) says...

Thismuststop,

Great analogy...

September 6, 2007 at 8:13 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

trinitytim (anonymous) says...

THISMUSTSTOP...

Excellent!!!!

Your wisdom is obvous.

September 6, 2007 at 8:21 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

exorcist_pencocky (anonymous) says...

cvs - It works better as a very loud chant. Well suited to the Broad Street area.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=umfO8upIIBo

September 6, 2007 at 10:04 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

exorcist_pencocky (anonymous) says...

Harpo - You Bad.

September 6, 2007 at 10:08 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

exorcist_pencocky (anonymous) says...

Up till now, the city of charleston mayor riley has helped keep the firefighters without sufficient equipment and training. Why mayor riley?

The city of charleston mayor riley has kept fire chief thomas in a position of authority. Why mayor riley?

To the mayor of the city of charleston I pose this question.

Since you are a board member of the city of charleston Commissioners of Public Works (newly renamed Charleston Water) perhaps you would care to explain the rational for putting the connection and impact fees for fire suppression sprinkler systems so astronomically high.

When you saw the disaster that action helped cause, one word from you and the rates fell immediately. You are a member of the board and voted on raising them, mayor riley. Did any member resist the increases?

Fire suppression sprinkler systems have saved both firemens and civilians lives when installed. You gave business owners an out. Why mayor riley?

The city of charleston awaits your answer, sir.

September 6, 2007 at 10:15 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

nickiegarbeil (anonymous) says...

Harpo,

LOL..Love the Onion

September 6, 2007 at 10:53 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

angeleyez0818 (anonymous) says...

Harpo: That's hilarious.

ThisMustStop: Ingenious. I couldn't have said any of it better myself! =P

September 6, 2007 at 11:16 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

cindybalch (anonymous) says...

Let me say, that the gag order you guys have on you seem too be in place, because you are all acting like a bunch of kids....that is to those of you who are acting like they have no sence. Why are you working at a job you seem to hate so much??/ Can't be for the money....Listen, those guys are GONE. They are sadley missed, but NOTHING will bring them back. They are probably pretty dissappointed if they could see you acting like this. You use names to log on that say things like prick and names like pencocky and against the hype, you made those names for yourself...what do they say about you? Nothing about being a firefighter, part of a family. Nothing about before all of this, the guys you bash, were your dinking buddies and friends. NOTHING about how sad we are to have lost these fine guys and how we know that we are faced with dangers and risk when we go to a fire. WHAT IN THE H*** are you thinking? Not only now have you made yourself look selfish and childish, but you have made the department that you loved, into a joke among firefighters. Guess you should be proud, cause now you are in the lime light and it has talken away the meaning that caused the fire. If it was someones fault, they will pay for it, not by your hands or words, but you are making your own bed of drama to lie in...I hope for those of you who are bashing Garvin and Johnson or anyone else standing up for what they believe, you need to look and think, that it may be your butt they save one day and you need to remember the pride and respect that the department once had.....Get a new job if you don't like that one...I would hate to know that a firetruck was coming to save me, when they can't even get along.
Don't make everything these guys died for about you....Let them rest on peace and you look in the mirror before you start on someone else.

September 7, 2007 at 12:02 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

exorcist_pencocky (anonymous) says...

My dear cindybalch, were you to read the written words, you would easily see for whom the praise and accolade's have been given. You would also see for whom, the condemnation is delivered. We couldn't save the nine heroes who perished in the fire, for them it truly was too late, too many years of indifference by citizens of the city of charleston. To make sure it is less likely to ever happen again, we can stand up, speak up and storm the very gates of "HELL" if need be. Thus to honor the memory of the nine.

September 7, 2007 at 12:29 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

nickiegarbeil (anonymous) says...

If just once the brass involved in the failures of this tragedy would have come forward and admitted they made mistakes and were WILLING, from the start, to correct them, the rage would have dissipated much sooner.

Had ANYONE with the knowledge of what truly happened believed that they honestly want to change this department for the better, and not wait until the panel tells them their faults, our rage would have dissipated.

If you knew the things that some of us know, through investigating, speaking with City officials, speaking with firefighters, their family members, friends, etc. You would also be angry. Unfortunately, you seem to be like many other complacent citizens of Charleston-for whatever reason.

Read around, Cindy, find out the stories behind Johnson...they aren't lies, his comments and actions were witnessed. Find out for yourself... www.firefighterhourly.com Don't take anyone's word for it, read for yourself. As for Garvin..He AND Johnson were together, inside the rear of that building and opened the fire door..duh? What happens when you open a door with a fire right outside of it????

Now, for the reality check...without public outcry, there will be no punishment for anyone within the CFD for their actions and failures that night...there aren't any laws to provide for those here in this state...what they did isn't criminal, it's lack of training and in my opinion, stupidity...However, from what I am told, the City will pay out their liability of roughly $250,000 (dollar amount passed on to me by several public officials)...there you go folks...Those nine mens lives have been given a price within the legal aspects of this City...Insurance will pay out the rest..but the maximum the City will be responsible for is a mere $250,000! Frankly, I find their lives worth a HE!! of a lot more than that...Angry? Nope...LIVID!!!

Without public outcry, Rusty will remain on the job, the Mayor will be re-elected, and the people will go on sleeping through the reality check we have been given...

Have a cup of coffee Cindy, the Kool-Aid is tainted.

Respectfully

September 7, 2007 at 1:05 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

nickiegarbeil (anonymous) says...

Oh...and Johnson was the acting Captain that night for Engine 11...he was supposed to be first on scene but decided to take the scenic route and made it there second. THAT places HIM responsible for laying the supply line to Engine 10 that was first one scene, as a result of his scenic tour of West Ashley...Guess what? He didn't lay that supply line...Ask the firefighters on here what that translates to in plain English.

No supply line, no unending supply of water, enabling the fire to get away from them from the start...Accountability...Pass it on...

September 7, 2007 at 1:08 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Boosterhose (anonymous) says...

It amazes me when people like Cindybalch post. It
lets me know how out of touch the populace is on the
poor leadership and the trials facing the men in
the department.
You take it for granted that posters have been read-
ing older input in this forum. There is a serious
need to educate the voters before election time
and we have to figure out how to do it before it's
too late.
Everything Nickiegarbiel said is true and she is
only hitting the high spots. There is a major mess
with the leadership in this city and it goes all the
way to the halls of the shrine the mayor is building
for himself at the 4 corners of law.
We need to clean house in Charleston.

September 7, 2007 at 6:45 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

cindybalch (anonymous) says...

I hope this finds all with some kind of a concious. Have any of you gone back to read the things you right about people you called your friend? As I stated in another comment, I am aware there is a gag order and none of this is being respected. Do you guys get kicks with the attention you are getting and could you be more proud of the fact that you are afecting the families ability to heal. I guess that makes you special. You guys need to grow up and be in the real world, where you are not perfect either. I know Johnson, Garvin and Thomas and have known them and thier families for years and I have served as a fire fighter. I attended the Fire Academy and am aware of what should take place on scene. I too lost 9 brothers...do you think you are alone. These you are bashing grieve and have constant reminders. No one will heal unless you band together to make good come out of their deaths. These are affecting the children and no one is telling yall to cool it. You find drama to fun to do what is right. I pray that the people you continue to save don't look to you for support, you can't even support each other. No one said and knew what would be the outcome of this tragety and no one will ever know the whole truth. If you were not on the scene or in the family, you do not know how this is afecting each person. Maybe you can deal with it by being angry. Who is it hurting? Go to bed tonight and be proud that you are part of the problem you are trying to solve, because the last time I looked, it too more than just those you are bashing to run and work that scene. You will never know the TRUTH. Accept it and move on. Let the CHARLESTON 9 rest in peace and don't make a joke out of what they stood for.

September 8, 2007 at 1:25 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

FiddlerCrab7 (anonymous) says...

Sorry to slide off-topic here, but has anyone considered contacting Senator Graham?
http://lgraham.senate.gov/

There's a contact form on his Web site, although it does request some personal information.
http://lgraham.senate.gov/index.cfm?m...

I read the City's Freedom of Information Requests, and I am concerned that they are being submitted in the midst of an ongoing investigation. You can find a link to a .PDF of the requests at the top of the Charleston.net article below.

The .PDF file sometimes hangs when I try to read it, though. Note that the requests were sent to multiple agencies, so there are multiple letters.

http://www.charleston.net/news/2007/s...

September 8, 2007 at 4:26 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )