Riley: City to sub fire uniform
Safety question about polyester prompts decision
Safety question about polyester prompts decision
The city of Charleston will move immediately to replace the polyester uniforms worn by city firefighters, Mayor Joe Riley announced Friday.
The Post and Courier reported Wednesday that the uniforms offer inadequate protection to firefighters because they can melt in high heat and do not meet national safety standards. The newspaper's report also cited a state workplace safety official who said the city's uniforms are not in compliance with state regulations because the uniforms don't meet standards prescribed by the National Fire Protection Association.
Dottie Ison, administrator for the state Occupational Safety and Health Administration, said on Friday that her agency uses the national standards to determine whether fire departments are in compliance with state workplace safety regulations. She said that the national standard on fire department uniforms requires that they meet heat-resistance guidelines. "We look to NFPA and that will determine compliance with OSHA," she said.
The polyester uniforms used by the city do not meet heat-resistance guidelines or the national standard, according to the uniform's manufacturer, Elbeco.
Riley disputes that the city is not in compliance with state regulations. The city was assured in a 2004 letter from state OSHA that the uniforms were in compliance, Riley said. "If nothing has changed since then, it's reasonable to assume we are in compliance ... unless those people issued an erroneous document."
In 2003, state OSHA inspectors visited the Charleston Fire Department in response to complaints about the uniforms and other safety issues. The inspectors determined that no hazard existed because the department requires firefighters to wear outer protective gear over the polyester uniforms.
Riley said that Ison told him Thursday that the state "could" consider the city uniforms out of compliance. "I think 'could' means they don't know," Riley said.
The mayor said he and other city officials spoke with Ison again Friday and were assured that the uniform issue is not a part of the state's ongoing investigation into the Sofa Super Store fire June 18 that killed nine area firefighters.
OSHA spokesman Jim Knight said Tuesday that the polyester uniforms are not in compliance with OSHA regulations. On Friday, Knight wrote in an e-mail that questions on the issue would be handled by Ison. Knight reiterated in his e-mail that "OSHA expects fire departments to comply with" the national standards on uniforms.
In a statement issued Friday, Riley said that Ison "confirmed that the statement attributed in The Post and Courier to S.C. OSHA Public Information Officer Jim Knight, asserting that the current uniforms were not in compliance, was not accurate."
Ison declined to discuss Riley's comments or Knight's statement that the fire department is not in compliance.
The main risk with polyester uniforms is that they provide little or no protection if a firefighter is not in full protective gear or if that gear is compromised, said Jeffrey Stull, an expert on protective equipment who advises the National Fire Protection Association on standards for protective equipment.
Carl Peterson, director of the public fire protection division for the National Fire Protection Association, said the uniform standards are designed to protect firefighters. "Polyester has very poor thermal stability. If it's subjected to heat, it's going to melt."
Riley said the city intends to replace the polyester uniforms "because there was a question about their safety" raised by the newspaper and the firefighters' union.
The Charleston Firefighters Association, the labor union that represents about half of the city's firefighters, raised concerns about the department's polyester uniforms in a 2002 proposal that it provided to Riley, Fire Chief Rusty Thomas and City Council.
"Chief Thomas felt that the work uniforms were safe and I accept that," Riley said. Still, the mayor said he doesn't want the community to have any concern that the city is not protecting its firefighters in every possible way.
The polyester uniforms likely will be replaced by uniforms made of 100 percent cotton or some other blend of materials, Riley said. He estimated the cost of outfitting the department with new uniforms could be between $60,000 and $150,000, depending on the style selected. A final decision on the material is expected next week and firefighters could be wearing the new uniforms within 60 days, Riley said.
The independent review team hired to examine Charleston's fire department in the wake of the furniture store blaze will be involved in selecting the new uniforms, Riley said.
Review panel spokesman Pete Piringer said city firefighters raised concerns about the polyester uniforms in recent interviews with panel members and that the panel was planning to address the issue in its forthcoming report.
Piringer applauded the city for taking quick action to meet the national standards.
"These things are good standards to aspire to, provided you have the resources to do so," he said. "It's always something you should be looking at and setting your sights on."
Most fire departments across the region now outfit their front-line firefighters in cotton-based uniforms. The Columbia Fire Department hasn't used polyester uniforms in at least 15 years. North Charleston dumped theirs a decade ago; Isle of Palms and Myrtle Beach did the same in the 1980s.
"Statement from Mayor Joseph P. Riley, Jr."
On Wednesday, August 29, 2007 the Post and Courier reported that a South Carolina OSHA official stated that the work uniforms that the City of Charleston Fire Department uses are not in compliance with State OSHA rules. The City received a determination in 2004 that these uniforms were indeed in compliance with OSHA standards. There has been no communication with the City since then, either written or verbal, to indicate otherwise.
The uniforms at issue, which were approved by SC OSHA in 2004, are the daily work uniform worn by our firefighters and are covered by a firefighter's personal protective equipment outerwear during active firefighting. This personal protective equipment is fire resistant and protects the skin and other clothing worn underneath from high temperatures. On Thursday I spoke with Dorothy S. Ison, SC OSHA Administrator, and she confirmed that the statement attributed in the Post and Courier to SC OSHA Public Information Officer Jim Knight, asserting that the current uniforms were not in compliance, was not accurate.
Notwithstanding this, I want to ensure that there is no question about the safety of our firefighters. Wednesday, I met with Chief Thomas and directed that we begin the process of acquiring new daily work uniforms. Since the work uniforms were an issue which the Fire Review Task Force was also looking into, also on Wednesday I spoke with Chief Gordon Routley, the leader of our Fire Review Task force, and discussed the current issue of the uniforms. He concurred with my decision that we begin immediately to set in motion the process of having the Charleston Fire Department work uniforms changed to a material recommended by the national experts of our Fire Review Team.
Chief Thomas has begun working on the change of material for this uniform. The current uniform presents a crisp, professional appearance the same reason our Army continues to use polyester uniforms. Nevertheless, I believe it is important to allay any safety concerns with regard to these uniforms for our firefighters.
FOR MORE INFO: Barbara W. Vaughn, Director
Media Relations/Public Information
Phone: (843) 724-3746 Fax: (843) 724-3734
Email: vaughnb@ci.charleston.sc.us
Reach Ron Menchaca at rmenchaca@postandcourier.com or 937-5724.
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Comments
nickiegarbeil (anonymous) says...
But not without the attempted Riley spin! There was concern in 2002, he wasn't worried about it then...but then again, he isn never wrong...must be OSHA...pfffft!
Here is another news flash Mayor! The citizens are concerned about the men's safety under Rusty's direction...does that mean we can count on your replacing HIM NOW?????? I'm going to hold you to your understanding of our concern Mayor...
September 1, 2007 at 2:02 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Boosterhose (anonymous) says...
In an office the military wears polyester not in a manual labor position, hence fatigues. Joes a politician who will confirm my opinions on his honesty everytime. A lack of.
September 1, 2007 at 2:06 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
trm2105 (anonymous) says...
I like this part, "He concurred with [my decision] that we begin immediately to set in motion the process of having the Charleston Fire Department work uniforms changed.."
September 1, 2007 at 7:53 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
nitelite (anonymous) says...
Wow....Joe is actually spending some money on the fire department? Took a tragedy and an election year to get him to loosen the purse strings...Let's see if Rusty can make him buy the very best uniforms, and don't stop there...push him to equipment, new hoses, trucks, etc.,etc.,etc., oh I forgot, Rusty is on a short leash because he is lucky to still have a job...Maybe Yow will rally the troops and get them out publicly on Broad street and force the mayor's hand on this one...He is backed into a corner
you guys need to see this...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umfO8u...
September 1, 2007 at 8:31 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
exorcist_pencocky (anonymous) says...
Perhaps the city of charleston mayor would care to explain how he found it hard, since before 2002, to raise money to replace the dangerous fire department uniforms, but he could easily find $11.5 million dollars to purchase an abandoned federal building. If the building is purchased, how many more city of charleston dollars will you spend to tear it down, mayor riley.
Every mother in the city of charleston has known for many years the danger of 100% polyester near fire. What if the protective suit is compromised? It does happen mr. mayor.
He claims the cost of outfitting the department with new uniforms could be between $60,000 and $150,000, as if it were an unnecessary extravagance, depending on the style selected.
Didn't your fire chief understand the problem.
September 1, 2007 at 8:39 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
east4 (anonymous) says...
Keep up the pressure maybe rusty is next!
September 1, 2007 at 8:47 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Pluffmuddy (anonymous) says...
Isn't it fun to watch Little Joe micromanage the affairs of the FD? I guess if rusty Rusty had checked his mail/email for the past 3 years he might have seen that uniform standards had changed. Of course, that's not the way we did it in the 1800s... Heck, at this rate, we can save tons of money by bypassing all other department heads as well, and let the Mayor run everything! Imagine the size of that tax cut! I'll bet the growing poor population will appreciate it...
September 1, 2007 at 8:52 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
nickiegarbeil (anonymous) says...
"Chief Thomas felt that the work uniforms were safe and I accept that," Riley said.
Chief Thomas FELT????? In other words, he didn't KNOW, BECAUSE HE didn't feel like LOOKING up the standards, which are HIS responsibility as Chief. It isn't OSHA's responsibility to TELL Rusty, it is HIS responsibility to make sure he looks at the standards every year...Maybe that is the reason the Fire Chief is supposed to be a desk job and not the micromanagement officer of the department??
"Still, the mayor said he doesn't want the community to have any concern that the city is not protecting its firefighters in every possible way". There's OUR cue people...he doesn't want the citizens to feel the they aren't protecting our guys in every possible way...DEMAND Rusty's retirement and DEMAND O'Donald's replacement from OUTSIDE the state with certified, EXPERIENCED people!
He said it, paper re-stated it...now it is OUR time to hold him to it! Let's see how arrogant and belligerent his Chief is now!
September 1, 2007 at 9:23 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
hawneena (anonymous) says...
I think $60,000-$150,OOO for new uniforms is dirt cheap for an entire fire dept. It is a shame that they couldn't have spent that pocket change years ago.
September 1, 2007 at 9:36 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
vesta (anonymous) says...
From an article posted on SCONFIRE: "Riley said they are safe because firefighters wear protective gear at fire scenes anyway. He also said the uniforms were approved by the state Occupational Safety and Health Administration three years ago.
"Nevertheless, I believe it is important to allay any safety concerns with regard to these uniforms for our firefighters," he said.
Riley said the city, working with outside experts reviewing department procedures after the Sofa Super Store fire, will probably decide on a new uniform material next week.
"We haven't picked out the exact material," he said.
Firefighters at a fire scene wear protective clothing and with it "you could have on your pajamas if you answered a call at three in the morning," he said. "Be that as it may, I don't want any question about our firefighters' safety, period." "
OK, I don't want to be picky, but the GEAR, to which you, Mayor Riley, allude the ffs could wear over their pajamas, is ALSO ANTIQUATED. If, Mayor Riley, you truly "don't want any question about our firefighters' safety, period," you might also want to look into newer protective gear for the CFD firefighters (the ones who ACTUALLY go into the fire--not the ones who stand outside the building). Yes, that does mean more money. Yes the firefighters who are risking THEIR lives for "YOUR" city are worth it.
September 1, 2007 at 9:37 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
oldcap (anonymous) says...
I got a kick out of this response from Firefighter Hourly.
http://www.firefighterhourly.com/fire...
September 1, 2007 at 10:07 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
miki (anonymous) says...
"The uniforms at issue, which were approved by SC OSHA in 2004, are the daily work uniform worn by our firefighters and are covered by a firefighter's personal protective equipment outerwear during active firefighting." We've all seen photos from the SSS fire that say this isn't the case.
At least now out FF won't die of polyester heat stroke related causes. Now lets get them some AC.
September 1, 2007 at 10:07 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
nickiegarbeil (anonymous) says...
Here is how UNINFORMED Mayor Riley is-it is obvious that he wasn't brave enough to serve in the military to actually KNOW what he is talking about...I wore polyester uniforms to inspections and formal events ONLY! Everyday working uniforms were either cotton whites or dungarees(those would be the ugly blue uniforms/jeans-sprayed with a fire retardant)...and Mayor, they crease very well, look nice and it is all possible by this neat little invention called STARCH! If you have trouble figuring it all out, I will gladly volunteer my time to come into the station AND your Mayoral office, to show you and Jr. how it is done!
Again, from the mouths of _________! You can fill in your own blanks!
Miki, I agree...but, I say the next emergent fix would be a new Chief and henchmen... :)
September 1, 2007 at 10:24 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
WardLaFrance (anonymous) says...
Kudos to Ron Menchaca and the Post and Courier. At least someone is listening! In spite of how it was accomplished and the all the angst involved, the bottom line is that the firemen will have safe, decent uniforms. Now we must tackle the leadership issue which will lead to correction of training, gear and equipment problems.
September 1, 2007 at 10:30 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
firecop967 (anonymous) says...
I think it great that these changes are coming about, but I was told by my mama "Dont throw rocks if you live in a glass house." I say that because there is not one Fire Dept in any state that is totally compliant. Look at Lexington county just a few short years ago with the loss of Jeff Chavis. What was learned from that... NOTHING. It is sad that such loss has to occur to make small progressive changes. I have learned over the years that there is a job for everyone in the fire service, and if you are in the position to make changes in your Dept I challenge you to do so. I would much rather not read about your dept than to read about your loss and the changes your are about to make. Prepare for tomorrow, don't repair yesterday.
Another thought that comes to mind, is placement of blame. Sure the chief and mayor are who come to mind, but lets work up the food chain, those city council members who now want a more active role, where were they? Kissing hands and shaking babies?? Or the county of Charleston to adopt stiffer Fire inspection procedures so that the city can incorporate them and issue fines. How about the the SC Fire Academy whose interest lies in industrial fire training. The same academy that sets "Standards" but then in the last line of it says something to the effect that all that they have deemed as "standard" can be ignored by the chief and he can do as he sees fit. I call that passing the buck. And last but not least the SC Congress that we elect, make them accountable for allowing the SC Academy to be run the way it is. Make them accountable... they asked for it.
September 1, 2007 at 10:55 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Local (anonymous) says...
Great posts on this story, and great job P&C! This story is worthy of national attention from the major news outlets. I bet we would see things change FAST if that happened.
September 1, 2007 at 10:55 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
UDIDIT (anonymous) says...
Ya Kno- Da boyz be tryin to git em rite n u folk still aint huppy. Whit mo do u went-da boyz r tryin to impove n atz ebby turn all we hey iz sova supa sto.
Let GO n Let JOE
September 1, 2007 at 10:57 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
WardLaFrance (anonymous) says...
Udidit: In case you missed the news, nine guys died at the sss fire. So no, I'm not happy. Neither are the families, coworkers and friends of the lost. It's been "let go" for too long and now it's time for a change. By the way, your cute little post was insulting and shows your ignorance. Your apathy disgusts me.
September 1, 2007 at 11:06 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
exorcist_pencocky (anonymous) says...
Keep up the good work P&C
September 1, 2007 at 11:19 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
vesta (anonymous) says...
Udidit: No, the "boys" are not getting it correct. They are only doing twenty-five to forty percent of a job of improvement. For example, although changing the uniforms is a good change, they do not (or I should say, "should not") wear the uniforms to fight fires. The turn-out gear is just as, if not more important, and the CFD ff's (not the chiefs' gears) is antiquated. What we are encouraging is "MEN" (as opposed to "boyz") in the CFD administrative posts who can make some sound decisions as to training, equipment and leadership so that even one more ff or civilian does not have to die in the line of duty because they were not properly trained, or equipped or led at the scene of a fire.
September 1, 2007 at 11:26 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
buzz457 (anonymous) says...
Looks like another issue that Chief Thomas is right on top of. The CPD is moving forward with a new Chief time for fresh ideas at the FD.
September 1, 2007 at 11:48 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
nickiegarbeil (anonymous) says...
LOL...Ward and Vesta...you understood that post???? Can someone translate that for me?
September 1, 2007 at 11:49 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
camo (anonymous) says...
It still amazes me after moving from Charleston 9 years ago that the citizens continue to re-elect Little Joe.....there are things the city needs to upgrade, and unfortunately it is taking the loss of 9 firefighters to bring the fire department into light as one of those things...the fire department and police department are two that should have top priority....oh wait, I forgot, this is Joe's town....he is more concerned about annexing to get a wider tax base, more income for the city, but yet where are the improvements? the upgrades? the sensibility? If he would worry more about the city and less about increasing his microworld, it would benefit the citizens.
In a seminar I went to about management, the one thing that was stressed was how "stale" a business can get if they don't grow with the times.....managers should be changed every 5 years to allow new thoughts/ideas. Joe and Rusty have been there too long and need to be replaced. I know Rusty, and I wondered when he was appointed fire chief if he was mature enough to handle the situation. After reading all that happened with the fire and the findings of the fire I have to sadly say he was not ready to take on this responsibility. Anyone that goes into a position such as head of a department, whether it is police or fire, should be able to come in, look objectively at the department and make recommendation on what is needed to improve their department, and have the guts to stand up to the mayor and demand these improvements be made especially if it means additional safety for the staff, and thus improved services for the citizens.
Little Joe, Rusty, be men and admit that you both messed up badly, save some dignity and step down for the betterment of the city.
September 1, 2007 at 11:57 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
charleytowngirl (anonymous) says...
Anyone who knows me, knows that I spend most of my entire weekend fishing with my husband. This whole thing is kind of like fishing to me. One you get 'em on the hook, you have to keep the pressure on, or the slimy thing will get away. Riley is the fish. The newspaper, the union, the men, the citizens, all had Riley on the hook over these uniforms. The pressure was on and we caught him. Now the men get the safer uniforms.
Of course, Riley tried to get off the hook by "spinning" this issue, but it didn't work.
Keep up the pressure, people. Plenty of big fish left to catch!
September 1, 2007 at 12:09 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
vesta (anonymous) says...
Nicki: check your pm.
September 1, 2007 at 12:30 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
hawneena (anonymous) says...
I think UDIDIT was attemting to use Gullah dialect and fell very short.
He not only doesn't know Gullah, but he is apparently clueless to what has been going on.
After all of these articles coming out and all of the links that people have been posting, how can anyone still be in the dark about this very serious sitation?
September 1, 2007 at 12:40 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
FiddlerCrab7 (anonymous) says...
Although the motivation seems somewhat political, this is a step in the right direction. The changes may not have happened without news coverage and citizen pressure, however.
It's incredibly important not to drop the push for safety improvements. Don't let this become a "WE gave em the uniforms and maybe they'll be quiet about 2/in and 2/out, training, improving automatic response, and leadership issues" consolation. Public safety is number one in the city's budget goals and city leaders should be held to it. The amount on uniforms is a mere pittance compared to baseball stadiums and golf-course tunnels.
On a side note, the Mayor's comments about the military seem ill-conceived in light of these links:
http://www.usmc.mil/marinelink/mcn200...
http://www.military.com/features/0,15...
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi...
September 1, 2007 at 1:22 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
charleytowngirl (anonymous) says...
Fiddler, continuing the theme of my previous comment, we all know there are much bigger fish to be caught and fried! This is just one small issue of many bigger, more serious issues with the leadership and mentality of those that lead the department. All we, as citizens, can do is keep the pressure on. Write to council members, national media, etc.
On another note:
"Chief Thomas felt that the work uniforms were safe and I accept that," Riley said. Still, the mayor said he doesn't want the community to have any concern that the city is not protecting its firefighters in every possible way.
Did anyone else think this statement sounds like Riley passing the buck back down to Thomas? Seems like everytime Riley gets in between and rock and a hard place, he passes the buck to Thomas.
At some point he's going to pass the buck to Thomas and Thomas is going to have to stand up and say ENOUGH. Come on, Thomas, tell us the hold that Mayor Riley has on you that you have neglected the safety of these men for so long that you ignored the issues brought up in 1996 and 2002. Have you ignored these issues because the Mayor did not think they were important? Wise up, man! When it comes right down to it, if the Mayor thinks he might lose an election over this, he will drop dime on you in a minute. He will not risk office for you!
However, you, Chief, on the otherhand might gain a vote of confidence or two if you stand up and tell Charleston how it's really been. In my opinion, the Mayor has control over you and has used it for many years so you could keep your job. You, in turn, do the same thing to your men. It's a cycle that must be broken. Why the memo that FF's aren't allowed to discuss issued with the media? Sounds to me like a violation of their constitutional right to freedom of speech!
Now that the city has directed that the FF's will get safer uniforms, now let's look at the issue of the firefighter's complaints of cheap outer protective gear. Why does the chief and other top ranking officers have the
"bes" gear? Who spends more time fighting the fires, the firefighters or the brass?
September 1, 2007 at 1:53 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
fyrmnjim (anonymous) says...
New uniforms will be a nice plus for you guys. However, any changes that are made will not mean a hill of beans if the CFD continues to have such gross incompetent leadership. If another SSS fire occurs tomorrow, those same morons will still have no clue as to what to do and you and your brothers will be put at risk again.
September 1, 2007 at 3:13 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Boosterhose (anonymous) says...
The city has addressed the 2 in/2 out and should be compliant. Manpower is being hired to make operations more expeditious.
The mayors hold on Rusty is empowerment. He has virtually unlimited power and only answers to the mayor, Which is pretty much answering to noone.
Unfortunately fyrmnjim is right. RT thinks he did a good job at the SSS and will only change what the I team tells him to.
September 1, 2007 at 3:38 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
UDIDIT (anonymous) says...
u wanna tlk bout da trajedy or bout wha happens now..sum of you cant seprate da too! Whay u folks work?--iny one of u lead a biz wid mo dan 5 folks? how wid you biz stood-up if exspert frum round da world cum wida comb of fyne tewth? i du and my gues is dat you biz wud hav jus az many vio as fire dept. i bin right ya, i know what happen on dat regretfil dey--betta dan most of u--yue ack like da world dun end---eye undastand the trajidy--i lost a relative--da corect responz tu trajedy is growth but fo you idiots out dey who tink change at da top is tha only n alwayz best ansa to growth--you btta chek ya hestery!
September 1, 2007 at 3:47 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
charleytowngirl (anonymous) says...
Boosterhose, any idea why Rusty was given that much power? Could Rusty's campaigning on the mayor's behalf and encouraging the firemen to campaign and/or vote for Riley have anything to do with it? I honestly don't know if any of that is true, but this information came to me from someone in politics that I believe is honest and sincere. Do you have any knowledge of it?
September 1, 2007 at 3:50 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
charleytowngirl (anonymous) says...
oh yeah, and Mayor, since you finally got off some money to spend on the department, why don't you spend the money on a computer for Rusty. Maybe, just maybe, he can spend a little time on the internet and learn how to keep his department up to standards.
September 1, 2007 at 3:54 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
charleytowngirl (anonymous) says...
Udidit: If you mean "growth" as in learning from the experience, whay da hell u been, man? You can only grow and learn from mistakes if you are first willing to admit that you made mistakes. No one at da top has admitted to dat yet!
September 1, 2007 at 3:59 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
nickiegarbeil (anonymous) says...
Charley..That fool sounds like a bootlick, too chicken to show his own true identity...he is BADLY faking his "lingo"...in other words, white boy with chicken legs...
Shame on you UDIDIT for degrading and mocking others for your own personal twist...
The tragedy MUST be talked about in order to never repeat it in the FUTURE...you cannot separate the two. They are completely inter-connected. If you want to have intelligent interaction, then do so..
As for the business(CFD) violations...NO SIR...we do NOT, nor will we, excuse them. You want to lay your life down for an arrogant attitude, so be it...don't sacrifice the others unwittingly. Violations will hit the owner of the store, and violations will hit this fire department...sink or swim pal...changes will come, and they will come from the top down...They still see no problem with the way they called this fire...so, since they are blind, WE WILL SHOW THEM THE WAY....OUT!
September 1, 2007 at 4:46 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
charleytowngirl (anonymous) says...
I dunno....sounds like Rusty's dialect to me......
September 1, 2007 at 4:48 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
nickiegarbeil (anonymous) says...
LOL...Can't be girlie, he doesn't know how to blog, remember?? No computer!
September 1, 2007 at 4:51 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Boosterhose (anonymous) says...
Most of the firefighters aren't in the city. 30 years ago the firefighters picketed Joe Rileys house and he never forgave the union. The union president at the time was fired. That's why noone on the inside wants to speak out. RT's hold is that he brought the fire dept up to a class one. He and the mayor meet regularly at the mayors office. I guarantee its for Rusty's benefit and not the mens. That's how Rt's salary has risen by more than 40 thou since he was made chief.
Now the mayor is lining up someone to fall right in after Rusty. Someone just like Rusty and completely under the mayors thumb.
September 1, 2007 at 4:51 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
WardLaFrance (anonymous) says...
We're just not accomplishing anything by continuing to attempt an adult discussion with udidit. For many, Udidit in particular, the SSS fire and the loss of nine firemen is yesterday's news and most people in our society have short attention spans. As long as they are not directly affected, they'd rather hear the next Paris Hilton/Anjoli/Pitt story than hear that some local leader should be held accountable for the deaths of the firemen.
Our time would be better served by re-listing the changes that should be made, and why.
September 1, 2007 at 4:55 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
nickiegarbeil (anonymous) says...
WardlaFrance,
I agree...here is a beginning list:
1) Remove Rusty-because HE was and is ultimately responsible for the calls made, actions taken and lives lost in this department, with regard to the SSS. His lack of ability to admit wrongdoing, and his failure to maintain his department in the proper fashion(violations, lack of training, no management abilities).
2) Remove Garvin-not a bad man, but also responsible for actions taken, or NOT taken at the scene.
3) O'Donald and Kleskie-ask the men the truth about that topic...
4) Uniforms-coming FINALLY..BTW Mayor, that was also RUSTY'S responsibility to know what was or was not OSHA standards!
5) Hoses(supply and attack)-supposedly on order-believe it when I see it...Again, SHOULD have been done long ago...
6) REPLACE REMOVED PARTIES WITH OUT OF STATE APPLICANTS-why? DUH?
Anyone else want to add?
I didn't inadvertently leave Riley off, but...we know the writing on the wall there..
September 1, 2007 at 5:39 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
exorcist_pencocky (anonymous) says...
Udidit - >>> People bitchin about how many hours after a game they can sit in a public parking spot and consume alcohol. We give money, we are not criminals, crime is on the East Side, long time tradition, Riley is the problem....
MERCY! >> Fort D is a real contender with the way the defense played last nite--I understand we gotta a new Defense Coordinator---He must be doing a helleva job! Anybody got any info?
GO PATRIOTS----ALL THE WAY BABY!!! <<<
On Patriots run away from Gators
Well I'll be! Amazing!
September 1, 2007 at 6:07 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
FiddlerCrab7 (anonymous) says...
More training budget (and training from external parties), more practice using thermal imaging cameras, better on-scene accountability checks (PAR), turn-out gear for ff that's equal to that of the chief, improved attitutes toward fire rehab (to reduce risk of dehydration) are potential additions to the list.
Meanwhile, is it true that the automatic fire response to hotels, schools, and hospitals is not up to par with other FDs. Just one apparatus? Many automatic alarms are false, but what if a fire started in a guest's or patient's room and s/he wasn't able to call it in (i.e. overcome with smoke or disabled)? A fire could smolder undetected by the hotel clerk or hospital staff who could call it in.
If automatic response is limited, is this going to change?
September 1, 2007 at 6:08 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
UDIDIT (anonymous) says...
neber once did i sey furgit ore excuz-simply-i sey u kant atac ebyding sumbody do wehn dats exackly wha u axin dem tu du--cleen up da mess. ain't no chief nor maya apulogist in me-i jus went u angry folk tu tink n stop wreactin tu all da enuendo. i mit i stupid n unkumpassion n a kowerd--but what does da wrest of yall mit ta (otta dan bein a bunch of hotheds widout da faxes). N YALL adult eh!!!
September 1, 2007 at 6:26 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
vesta (anonymous) says...
Nicki: I would add to your list that, along with these new uniforms, should come updated turnout gear for the ffs who actually fight the fires. I am sure Rusty tells the Mayor,"We have the best turnout gear there is," and he (Rusty and other supervisors) may very well have the best turnout gear there is, but the ffs who GO INTO THOSE BURNING BUILDINGS do not have updated turnout gear. To me, a uniform worn everyday is for "show"....I want to see these ffs protected when they are working these fires.
September 1, 2007 at 6:43 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
FiddlerCrab7 (anonymous) says...
This Fire Engineering Journal blog post by Bobby Halton discusses additional issues. Make sure to read the blog comments.
http://www.pennwellblogs.com/fireengi...
September 1, 2007 at 7:44 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
OldChasFirefighter (anonymous) says...
Food for thought. I believe that it will take several years of hard work to get the CFD to where they should be. It has been my experience that businesses that have good safety cultures are the ones that not only embrace the core value of safety, but also are the ones that try to do more than the standards say. Remember that codes and standards are the minimum that are accepted. And given the training history of the department as a whole, the minimum was all that was required and expected. Perhaps this is why they did not jump and start correcting things earlier. There is a part of my heart that is afraid that unless they really see the light, no more will be done than has to.
I would also like to say that while many of us would like to see changes in the Department that really outsiders are limited in what they can do. At some point, I hope that the firemen will figure it out to band together and have a voice. I know that the years I spent in the department if you tried to have a voice or questioned anything you were dealt with, one way or another, but guys, I believe that this is the best time that you will ever have to make changes to not only help yourselves, but also the future firemen and there would be no better way to honor the 9 who left use in June. I would suggest talking to possibly the city council at a public meeting and ask them about the firemen having a vote on some issues. The ballots could be yes or no questions, and you would not have to sign them. that way you would not have to worry about facing the wrath. It would either be a vote of confidence for the current administration or it would show the mayor, council and public that the men of the department want a change and one way or the other would help to silence one side. It makes me think of the war in Iraq. No matter what we want for them, there will not be any changes until the people start doing it and then it will only be what they believe in. They might not have the same beleifs, or wants that we do.
Men please band together so that real and lasting change will happen.
God bless all of you, my heart is not only with the men of the department, but with my friends that died in June
OldChasFirefighter
September 1, 2007 at 8:17 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
WardLaFrance (anonymous) says...
OldChas and East3: Is there an interest within to get the training, even if they have to go outside the department? I realize that putting ICS into effect would be very difficult if the crews are trying to implement it and the leadership refuses, but I hate seeing the "lemming" factor come into play. I do understand that might appear to be a mutiny- but the issue here is the general safety of the ff. Maybe by joining volunteer departments or as a group, addressing SCFA or NFA? At this juncture, safety/training is far more important than anything else that comes to mind.
September 1, 2007 at 8:31 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
nickiegarbeil (anonymous) says...
Ward, check your email
September 1, 2007 at 8:55 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
nickiegarbeil (anonymous) says...
OldChasFirefighter,
Well stated...the idea of secret ballots is fantastic!
September 1, 2007 at 9:05 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
nickiegarbeil (anonymous) says...
OK...I'm falling for it..UDIDIT...a bunch of hotheads without the facts, eh???? Have you been sleeping during this entire event? Reading isn't your strong point eh? There are TONS of facts floating around these sites...any number of them...I suppose you would have us sit around and knit masks to hide behind, while more men die? Nawwww...I think not..hotheads could apply...we are HOT that this occurred...HOT that we didn't understand the weaknesses and failures before the men died, and HOT that there are braindead people out there who are willing to sit back and wait while the next year passes and much of the facts are lost in the shuffle..Tell ya what UDIDIT...you sit back and watch the REAL citizens step up to the plate and you ride along for the show, k?
Take care...
Sorry guys, I had to....I'm done now
September 1, 2007 at 9:46 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
vesta (anonymous) says...
FiddlerCrab7: That was a very interesting site and I especially enjoyed reading John McNeil's comments. Thanks!
September 1, 2007 at 9:53 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
WardLaFrance (anonymous) says...
Copied from the Daniel Island News:
Candidate forum planned for Oct. 29
The Daniel Island News and the Charleston Metro Chamber of Commerce will present a candidate forum on Oct. 29. District 1 candidates and the mayoral candidates are expected to participate. The forum will begin at 7 p.m. on Monday, Oct. 29, at the Bishop England Performing Arts Center.
September 1, 2007 at 9:56 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
WardLaFrance (anonymous) says...
These are the candidates for Mayor in the upcoming election. A forum is planned (see earlier post) and these are the websites for each. Perhaps we can get our candidates to discuss our concerns.
http://gregorieformayor.com/ - supports firing rusty thomas
Omar Brown: omarbrown.com
Marc Knapp: no campaign site, but he writes about city politics on charlestonwatch.com
September 1, 2007 at 10:09 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
WardLaFrance (anonymous) says...
I just went to charlestonwatch.com and read a few of knapp's comments. If you plan on voting in the mayoral race, this should be recommended reading.
September 1, 2007 at 11:03 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
nickiegarbeil (anonymous) says...
Has anyone heard if the Union has chosen to back any of these gentlemen? Just curious
September 1, 2007 at 11:11 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
vesta (anonymous) says...
Ward: Knapp's comments about the council meetings and, in particular, the CFD are very enlightening. Do you have any information on his background?
September 1, 2007 at 11:35 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
WardLaFrance (anonymous) says...
I've been trying to research- I understand he works for or runs a utility construction company west side - his name's appeared in the BCD council of government minutes, and that's all I've found so far.
September 2, 2007 at 12:07 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
intheknow (anonymous) says...
charlestonwatch.com
September 2, 2007 at 11:20 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
vesta (anonymous) says...
intheknow: Although this may be Marc Knapp's site on which he posts editorials about issues in the Charleston area, I do not see a biography section which accompanies many of these sites. Where can we find out more about Marc Knapp, the person?
September 2, 2007 at 11:37 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
WardLaFrance (anonymous) says...
I'd like to know as well. If he's running for mayor, I'd like to see his campaign info and a biography.
September 2, 2007 at 7:23 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
nickiegarbeil (anonymous) says...
I have heard he runs all the time, but that financially he doesn't have the big campaign...I tried to contact him via that website, but it wouldn't accept the email...maybe one of you can try...?
September 2, 2007 at 7:41 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
traumajunkie15 (anonymous) says...
I dont normally blog but this particular subject hits home and i have some things to say. First and foremost, Rusty and Joe have got to be replaced long before we will see any significant changes in this department. They still run it under the "good ol'boys" system. As for Garvin, well. you cant really blame some of his actions. Most of his FF career has been under dumb a** Rustys supervision, which we all know SUX. Their training is sad to say the least. Its all done in house and only Rustys personal favorites get to go the fire academy at all. There are some ppl within this department that have been passed up numerous times for promotion due to their lack of Rustys approval for what ever his stupid reasoning may be. If they still desired to hire for the new positions within the department they could have done WAY better than Odonell thats for sure. Cuz Odonell is one of Rustys "golden children".
The uniforms? Great! Im glad they are replacing them BUT sounds to me like Joe is trying to appease the public. Like he doesnt really care about the FFs just the voting public. And lets face it, the public doesnt know all the dirty details so he only has to fix what comes to light.
Training....Oh where to start... Ok lets just hypothetically say that some nice young aspring FF comes to CFD to start his/her career and the only training they get IS CFDs training...hence the attitude some have that CFD firefighting is the best ever. Kinda scary huh? This would easily be fixed by hiring an outsider with some qualifications in AT LEAST 20th century firefighting.
As for the FF not being able to speak tp the press..well thats just Joe and Rustys way of keeping the horrible and life threatening secrets with in the dept.
So what happens next? Do we have to endure the loss of another 9 or more FF to get things done? I lost some good friends that day and I dont think thats what we should wait for. I think the community as a whole needs to rally around our FF and turn the heat WAY up. This issue is not the only one that Mayor riley refuses to address full faced that puts his citizens in jeapordy every day 24/7.
Oh one last thing, That ISO ratng that Rusty so proudly boasts about every chance he gets is only applicable to certain partsof the CFD district.
So heres my challenge to EVERY1 whether your in Charleston, a FF, a medic, a spouse or family member to a CFD FF or not Lets get Joe out of office and scream for Rustys head before we lose more FF. Just remember all you other non CFD FF out there these could have been one of your own considering the incompetency of the IC at this scene and the numerous other mutual aid FF on scene that day.
Thanks everyone for their support here and their support to the Charleston 9 families.
Take care and be safe
A concerned CFD Batt chiefs daughter
September 3, 2007 at 11:31 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
nickiegarbeil (anonymous) says...
I just got word that the Mayor is MADDDDDD about this attention for the uniforms and just to spite the FFs (paying them back for our loudmouths) the RUMOR is that they are plotting to purchase the MOST EXPENSIVE ROMEX they have...in other words, a nice uniform but HOT as HE!!. So then when the men OR public citizens complain, they can come back and twist our concerns to make it look like they spent all that money and we still aren't satisfied...
MAYOR...WE ARE WATCHING AND SCREAMING!!! NO ROMEX!!! Give these men some cotton uniforms and let them DO THEIR JOBS!
traumajunkie15...check your email
September 3, 2007 at 11:44 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
traumajunkie15 (anonymous) says...
I sure hope that all of charleston is paying attention so that when election time rolls around this a**hole wont be reelected.
September 3, 2007 at 1 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
vesta (anonymous) says...
nickie: check your pm.
September 3, 2007 at 2:28 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
nickiegarbeil (anonymous) says...
CORRECTION...Not ROMEX, rather NOMEX...sorry guys, I misread my email...My bad...LOL
Thanks for the correction Vesta...
Either way, this is very expensive, and VERY HOT..the expensive part isn't the issue, but IF the Mayor truly IS trying to get back at the men by giving them this equipment, then it turns into another abuse of power and money...
September 3, 2007 at 2:38 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
WardLaFrance (anonymous) says...
I think it's time to find a comedian with a UTube talent. Let's get him to stand out in front of the station and do a "newscast". After all it couldn't be any more ridiculous than Joe and Rusty's antics, could it? And firefighters across the US would get us our million hits.
By the way, Am I the only one who couldn't find this article under the SSS heading on line? I had to resort to detective work!
Ward
September 4, 2007 at 1:24 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
nickiegarbeil (anonymous) says...
Ward...You are not the only one...but...tip to the wise...bookmark the pages when you first see them...then when they hide them in the rear pages of history, you still have the link... :)
September 4, 2007 at 6:43 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
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