Political hot spots
Upstate diners feed need to talk presidential politics
By Brian Hicks
Upstate diners feed need to talk presidential politics
The Post and Courier
Democrat Robert McDowell (left) and Republican Michael Henderson rib each other over politics at Jimmie's restaurant on the west side of Greenville Wednesday.
The Post and Courier
Dickie Corbin (center) jokes around with Hugh Wilder (right) and Vernon Smith at The Beacon restaurant in Spartanburg which has become the goto place in the Upstate for candidates running for office and political conversations.
SPARTANBURG — They talk about football over their fries, chew over local issues with a helping of barbecue, sip sweet tea as they pass around an unflattering picture of Hillary Clinton.
For 127 consecutive Wednesdays, this "Lunch Bunch" has met at the Beacon Drive-In, a landmark diner — and a must-stop for politicians since the days when Strom Thurmond actually had to campaign.
In this most conservative area of a conservative state they are, of course, all Republicans. And although they talk about the presidential candidates a good bit, don't ask them to pick one.
At one table, there isn't an ounce of consensus. Hugh Wilder likes McCain; Bill Hudson says Romney's the guy; Dickie Corbin likes Giuliani; and Vernon Smith says Thompson best represents the Upstate.
Three months before the Republican primary, this key region of South Carolina, like much of the country, is up for grabs. The only thing they can agree on is a nearly supernatural fear that "she" — Clinton — will win.
For all the gabbing, all the photo ops with the candidates parachuting in weekly, no contender has broken away from the pack. Right now, most voters seem resigned to just picking the least offensive one.
"We're not going to find anyone perfect," says Roger Bennett, "we're just going to have to find the best choice out there."
The polls are, of course, inconclusive. They suggest Fred Thompson, the actor and former U.S. senator, leads the bunch along with former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani. But polls don't mean much in these parts, and a lot of people here can't even pronounce Giuliani — and laugh about it.
If there is a flavor of the week, it is Mitt Romney. The former Massachusetts governor has pushed hard to win over South Carolina voters, and enjoyed an early endorsement from Upstate U.S. Sen. Jim DeMint.
The big question about Romney is his religion. He is a Latter-day Saint, and a lot of people Upstate flat-out consider the Mormons a cult. It might have been enough to sink his campaign in South Carolina, but then Bob Jones III — chancellor of the Christian Bob Jones University in Greenville — shocked a bunch of people by endorsing Romney.
"We can't understand what he's doing," says Michael Henderson, a Greenville Republican. "He's always preaching against the Jehovah's Witnesses and Latter-day Saints."
Jones said he made the choice because he could not abide a race between Clinton and Giuliani, calling the match-up of two pro-choice candidates "a disaster."
"As a Christian, I am completely opposed to the doctrines of Mormonism," Jones told The Greenville News. "But I'm not voting for a preacher. I'm voting for a president. It boils down to who can best represent conservative American beliefs, not religious beliefs."
Daniel Kerr of Greenville says Jones' endorsement will carry a lot of weight. "People say they don't like Jones, but they listen to him," he says.
The same week Jones made his endorsement, Don Wilton, pastor of Spartanburg First Baptist Church, jumped on the bandwagon and also endorsed Romney. But Wednesday, Wilton rescinded his support, calling it a "personal mistake."
His congregation "chewed his butt out," several of the Lunch Bunch guys laugh. But Hudson contends that's just church politics, not an indication of Romney's candidacy. He says he can see why the evangelicals might turn to the Mormon.
"I'm sure the Democrats will have something to say about it, but at least he goes to church. He believes in God," says Hudson, a former North Charleston resident. "I like Romney because he's the only businessman in the race."
Pardon his friends, though, if they disagree with his pick.
"(John) McCain has Reagan's thoughts," Wilder declares.
"Mr. Thompson is the only one with any real morals," Smith contends.
The Lunch Bunch crowd doesn't argue; they listen to one another, laugh again at the picture of Clinton, then worry aloud that she is going to win.
At Jim's Restaurant, 30 miles away in Greenville, a similar group meets for a late breakfast of biscuits and gravy. Childhood friends who grew up in the same mill village, they are mostly retired and split politically.
While the Democrats at the table all like Clinton, the Republicans are scattered as broadly as Spartanburg's Lunch Bunch.
Henderson, the most vocal, likes Thompson. He kind of likes Romney, too, but coming from Massachusetts is a big strike against him. Ted Kennedy, after all, is from Taxachusetts.
On this morning, the Democrats are enjoying the confusion among the Republicans. As they spar over candidates, William Trotter laughs and says, "You don't have anybody good, that's why they keep digging up new ones."
There is, it seems, a point to Trotter's jab. These Republicans can find something wrong with every candidate.
Giuliani is too liberal, Thompson doesn't stand for anything. McCain is yesterday's news, either that or still suffering from the mudslinging job the Bush campaign did on him in 2000.
"I wouldn't give him air in a jar," Bennett says of McCain.
Some of the gang like Mike Huckabee, the former Arkansas governor who holds fifth place in most polls. Kerr says if Huckabee had Romney's money, he'd be the nominee. Several others agree. But Upstate, where residents feel they are guiding the rest of the nation, they feel they can't choose a candidate just because they like him.
They've got to pick one who can win it all.
This debate will continue in Upstate diners until the GOP primary Jan. 19, and most folks here expect there will still be a split vote. They may hold their noses at the polls, but swear they will come together behind the eventual nominee, whoever it is.
Because if there is anything they can agree on here, it is that they don't want to see "her" win.
Reach Brian Hicks at 937-5561 or bhicks@postandcourier.com.
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Comments
mac0cm4 (anonymous) says...
The P&C has no qualms about displaying which party they support.
October 27, 2007 at 4:31 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Diamondhead (anonymous) says...
Mac...
Oh oh:sour grapes.
October 27, 2007 at 8:08 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Viva_La_Revolution (anonymous) says...
P & C you have to be kidding me. Are you telling me that not one person you spoke with regarding this article mentioned John Edwards? Talk about biased news reporting.
John Edwards is from the upstate of South Carolina and you are telling me that not one person mentioned his name. So much for truthful reporting.
John Edwards for president, he is our only chance for real change. Let's show the US that we are not all uneducated in SC.
October 27, 2007 at 9:12 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Gerald2008 (anonymous) says...
True Christians should understand that GOD has historically used a variety of means to expose to His true followers those "apostates" who inevitably rise to positions of leadership amongst His people.
Thus, while it is disappointing that Bob Jones III has endorsed Mitt Romney; and disappointing that Pat Robertson requested that Mitt Romney deliver the commencement address at the 2007 graduation ceremonies at Regent University; and disappointing that Robertson's sidekick, Jay Sekulow, head of the American Center for Law and Justice, has endorsed
Mitt Romney; and disappointing that various leaders within the American Family Foundation have endorsed Mitt Romney; and disappointing that numerous Pastors, Ministers, and other "professed christians" have endorsed Mitt Romney; IT IS NOT SURPRISINGLY.
The candidacy of Mitt Romney, in particular as a conservative Republican (he could as easily ran as a liberal Democrat), is a BLESSING. The LDS church is a pseudo-christian religion used by Satan to deceive and
mislead the GOD's people away from true worship of mankind's Lord and Savior -- Jesus Christ.
Any true Christian, be they a layperson or leader in their church, who truly has been born-again, and has the Holy Spirit dwelling within them, would both recognize such, and refuse to provide aid, comfort, and support to any "psuedo-christian"; whether in a political race, or any other endeavor.
Why? Simple. A counterfeit "anything" is more dangerous than the anything's "opposite". Opposites stand out in stark contrast to the genuine -- thus are easily identified as to their nature and objective. Counterfeits have only one purpose. Counterfeits are intended to mislead and harm those seeking the genuine article.
Of course, those who support the "supporters" of "counterfeits" are just as responsible as are the counterfeit and his direct supporters. Thus, not only will Jones, Robertson, Sekulow, and many other apostates have
to stand before Jesus Christ and explain their aid and support of one of Satan's better efforts, but so will every single "professed christian" who continues to support those supporters.
Thank you Mitt Romney for flushing out the apostates.
October 27, 2007 at 9:19 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Brant (anonymous) says...
Uh-huh...yeah, right. Did you know, Gerald, that your boy the Mitter and his clan perform "Baptisms by Proxy"? That means that they take names from death records and, because of their way-out-beyond-left-field beliefs, "baptise" someone who's dead because they don't feel that person is "saved"? Oh, and did I mention that they've also culled names from the list of Holocaust victims? That's as shameful a practice as anybody in the Established State Religion could come up with!
I hope the worst nightmares of these Right Wing nut jobs comes true and Hillary DOES win!!!
October 27, 2007 at 9:33 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
sjmehlhose (anonymous) says...
I'm a conservative Bible believing born again Christian. Although I know that Mormomism is a dangerous cult, we have to remember that there is a difference between a vote for President, and a vote for Pastor or Deacon of a local church. My greatest concern with Romney is his recent conversion to being a concervative. Until about a year ago, Romney was pro-abortion and pro-homosexual (or anti-family) and made a 180 degree turn when he began to campaign for President. Huckabee is the person I will vote for in the primary. However, if it becomes a choice between Clinton and Romney in the general election, I will vote for Romney to try and assure the Rodham-Clinton isn't elected. If Giuliani is nominated, I simply won't vote. Giuliani is just as evil as Rodham-Clinton. He is pro-abortion and pro-homosexual. I could NEVER vote for someone who supports the legal murder of babies or supports the agenda of child molesters and perverts.
October 27, 2007 at 11:01 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Diamondhead (anonymous) says...
Viva La Revolution:it doesn't take much to figure out your political leanings. Are you a revolutionary from south of the border comrade or a homegrown wannbe?
This is a gathering of conservatives not a bunch liberal socialists who want to remove every freedom that Americans have fought for. It wouldn't surprise me if the democratic convention will be held in Havana, Cuba this year.
October 27, 2007 at 11:08 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
sjmehlhose (anonymous) says...
I agree. Viva La Revolution sounds like a dyed in the wool commie (or Demoncrat, same thing).
October 27, 2007 at 11:17 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
sjmehlhose (anonymous) says...
stand828:
You sound like a very angry, biased bigot. BTW, you might want to check out the facts before mindlessly spouting off unsubstantiated figures. Chill out.
October 27, 2007 at 9:35 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Diamondhead (anonymous) says...
Stand828.:I read your post with some interest but I'm somewhat confused. Judging from this post and the previous read in this thread your sympathies are with the liberal democrat party and you're in opposition to the conservative base republican party yet you say you're a Southern Baptist?
Liberalism is a tree with many branches just like the color red has many shades. Some will even claim to be green but if you look a little closer they are still red. Conservatives used to be blue but the liberals did a George Orwell on us and now we are red or red states:go figure but don't worry we're still blue. Republicans lack backbone to stand up against liberals for doing that kind of stuff to us. Hillary Clinton and the liberals controls the trunk on this tree. Liberalism is a belief system that is clearly different from the our traditional value system and what this country was founded on.
All this boils down to issues and what side of the issue you're on. Liberals believe that single mothers, 2 mommies or 2 daddies would make great parents with no studies to back that up. Liberals believe that citizens do not have the right to a firearm to defend their property or family from criminals. Liberals do not believe in property rights as clearly shown in the Supreme Court case of Kilo vs. New London. Liberals believe in the redistribution of income by way of taxation. Liberals are anti-Christian but NOT anti-Muslim, anti-Buddhist, anti-Hindu:etc. We can go on and on but I think you got the idea. We have a great divide in this country and it's not a question whether we hate liberals even though it may seem that way at times, it a question whether we want to live under liberalism, that is what we hate.
Hillary's marriage to her husband Bill is not a marriage in the traditional sense but more of a political partnership. This forgiveness is all about politics, it has nothing to do with forgiveness especially Bill's track record chasing women after all these years.
I'm new this area but where I come from I was a minority both in ethnic background and my belief system. I'm a Christian but I've been away from the church for a long time. I'm also a conservative and since conservative republicans only represent 14.5% of the vote in the city I come from we didn't get much representation. After living in a liberal utopian for 28 years it is a lot different than just disagreeing with a person's opinion or letting a person live the way they want as you say because that's not what liberalism is all about. Like gun control it's all about control and how much liberals want to control your life. We need only look to places like Cuba, China, the former Soviet Union, Nazi Germany, Fascist Italy etc:to see the failures of too much government.
October 28, 2007 at 10:24 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
sjmehlhose (anonymous) says...
Diamondhead:
I couldn't have said it better myself. Thank you for your well though out opinion.
October 28, 2007 at 12:52 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Diamondhead (anonymous) says...
Thanks sjmehlhose:.the problem with relocating to another part of the country, you have to readjust your team loyalties. I would never imagined myself being a fan for Atlanta Braves or Carolina Panthers but here I am. The Panthers took a real beating from the Colts today. If the Panthers win 50% of the games this year then they'll at least stay out the hall of shame.
October 28, 2007 at 5:19 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
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