Fire panel wants big change
Report to cite need for improvements from hoses to training to staffing
Report to cite need for improvements from hoses to training to staffing
An independent panel hired to study the Charleston Fire Department in the wake of the Sofa Super Store tragedy will recommend a sweeping overhaul of the department's practices, procedures and equipment in its forthcoming report, The Post and Courier learned Tuesday.
The report, expected to be released this week or next, will recommend changes in virtually every aspect of the department, including the purchase of larger fire hoses and supply lines, more training at all levels and improved communication between department leaders and rank-and-file firefighters.
Tyrone Walker
The Post and Courier
Charleston Fire Department Chief Rusty Thomas.
Among the recommendations the panel is considering for its report are:
-- Increase the water supply at fire scenes. The Post and Courier reported Sunday that firefighters at the sofa store blaze that killed nine men lacked an adequate water supply because their hydrant supply hoses and attack lines are outdated and smaller than those used by most departments around the country.
-- Improve firefighter training and education at all levels of the department.
-- Hire more firefighters to adequately respond to blazes.
-- Revise pre-planning policies for structures with known hazards and ensure that those plans are updated and used in the event of a fire.
--Work cooperatively with other area fire departments to conduct joint training, share resources and provide mutual aid.
-- Adopt administrative changes aimed at spreading authority and oversight among more leaders and form committees to rereview and make suggestions on key issues, such as promotions and discipline.
-- Ensure that Chief Rusty Thomas and other department leaders include firefighters in decisions and encourage them to express disagreement.
Many of the panel's recommendations dealing with equipment and staffing were part of an earlier list of findings the panel issued Aug. 17. Some of the panel's recommendations dealing with incident command procedures also were identified as deficiencies in a recent state workplace safety report.
The state office of Occupational Safety and Health Administration cited the city last month for four violations stemming from the sofa store fire.
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In our special section with photos, videos, interactives, donation information and every story written about the tragedy.
On Tuesday, attorneys representing the city formally protested those citations and requested a hearing with agency's review board. The Associated Press reported that OSHA also received a protest from the Sofa Super Store and that a hearing would be scheduled. No date has been set.
The review panel's forthcoming report had been expected last month, but panel members have said that was only a ballpark estimate.
City spokeswoman Barbara Vaughn said the city has not been provided a copy of the report, though "parts and pieces have been shared" with city officials.
The six-member team of firefighting professionals began its examination in August. Team leader Gordon Routley, a former fire chief in Shreveport, La., pledged that the panel would work autonomously and pursue the facts wherever they may lead.
Since then, panel members have pored over hundreds of city and department documents and interviewed dozens of firefighters. On Aug. 17, after less than a week of work, the panel announced an initial list of findings, saying that the department's outmoded tactics and dated equipment must undergo significant change in order to catch up with basic fire service standards followed throughout the country.
The forthcoming report is the first part of a three-step process. Next, the panel will compile the various investigative reports into the fatal June 18 blaze, and later it will draft a long-range strategic plan for the department.
In addition to Routley, other team members are: Kevin Roche, assistant fire marshal and assistant to the fire chief in Phoenix; Tim Sendelbach, former chief of training for Savannah Fire and Emergency Services; Brian Crawford, assistant to the fire chief in Shreveport and resident instructor at the National Fire Academy; Mike Chiramonte, a fire inspector and former fire chief in Lynbrook, N.Y.; and Pete Piringer, spokesman for the review panel.
Reach Ron Menchaca at rmenchaca@postandcourier.com or 937-5724.
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Comments
This article has 51 comment(s)
Posted by bigbrotheriswatching on October 10, 2007 at 1:38 a.m. (Suggest removal)
what happened to the first class, best in the nation, fire department that mayor riley boasted so proudly about? According to the first report and now this, it seems like the review team is basically saying that the past and current state of the department needs a total overhaul. If Rusty were he CEO of a business, he would be fired. A principle of a failing school, he would be fired. He wouldn't be allowed to drive a bus if he operated his fleet they way he must have been operating the department. Not even the short one. If Trademark properties loves him so much, why don'tthey hire him. But if Richard Davis handles his subcontractors in the manner he does on his TV show, then why in the hell he feels Rusty Thomas can still operate the CFD. Wonder what in the world he would do if he found out someone on his staff was responsible for 9 workers getting killed renovating one of his properties. People in this city need to look at the obvious. anyone who continues to support this utter disgrace needs to be ashamed of themself.
Posted by Neponset on October 10, 2007 at 5:30 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Looks like the P&C has dropped the last article concerning water and the discussion will continue here.
fyrmnjim
It is my understanding also that truss roofs are very comon in contemporary commercial building construction, since it provides large open spaces in the building, with a minimum number of support columns to clutter the interior space. My brother has lots of experience in this type of construction and has commented on the use of a spray on coating to insulate the steel from the heat of a fire. Don't know how effective this coating is, but it would certainly delay the effects of the heat. IMHO, the preplan should include details on roof construction - whether trusses are present and if fire proofing has been used.
Posted by the_white_owl on October 10, 2007 at 5:51 a.m. (Suggest removal)
This is a damning indictment of our fire departments leadership.
This report leads straight to those in charge at the top levels of the City of Charleston Fire Department. It tells a damning tale of incompetence, arrogance and stupidity.
"And now there are 9 DEAD firemen because of this."
Mayor Joseph P. Riley, Jr., I expect you to discharge your duty and responsibility as Mayor of the City of Charleston
and IMMEDIATELY terminate Rusty Thomas, and other as leaders of "MY" fire department.
Yes Joseph, its time the residents of the City of Charleston, reclaimed their city and their fire department.
You have been there long enough, cost us well more than enough and messed up more than enough.
For the life of me I don't know why we left you there this long.
We will take care of you, on election day, and remove the stain you have placed on our fair city.
Associated Press indeed! The story of "your stupidity" has now gone worldwide and has our city's name on it.
Posted by teeitup on October 10, 2007 at 7:49 a.m. (Suggest removal)
ISO Class 1?
Posted by crankyyankee on October 10, 2007 at 8:07 a.m. (Suggest removal)
The question is not what the people want! It's what does Little Joe want. How long do you need to be a resident of this area to know that? Jesus some of you are slow learners.
Posted by easy on October 10, 2007 at 9:07 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I am so very blessed I do not live in Charleston, the county or surrounding area, or have to pay taxes in the same. I see why many of you are so fed up with the bull$HIT and you should be, but you have no one but yourselves to blame. So get out and speak up. Tell everyone that you know who is able to vote and elect another mayor, so that person can get rid of the fire chief. And a new admin can start to re-build the city and dept with your assistance, and not smoke screen it. Even if you yourself cannot vote in this election because you do not live in the city, I am sure you know people in your stations districts that can and are able to vote, go forward and tell them what you as the person, company and dept are putting up with to try and protect their property and lives. Then if you are harassed at work, given a substandard performance evaluation or threats are made about your job, file a lawsuit, federal law protects you. Remember the rights provided you in the u.s.constitution, to speak free. If you now do this, you will honor the 9 that died, because no one before stood up to make change occur.
Posted by CHRISJIII on October 10, 2007 at 9:09 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Well if this report doesn't tell it that it's past the time for Rusty to be gone I don't know what will. Take Joe with ya'!!!!
Posted by summervillesc on October 10, 2007 at 9:32 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I think they need to fix the problems and drop this enough is enough.Everyday there is something about this in the paper let the fireman that died in that awful fire rest in peace and let the families get on with their lives.
Posted by burton on October 10, 2007 at 10:34 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Ah, they left one recommendation out: Get rid of the lame duck Chief!! I'm going to keep saying it: Voters of Charleston, continue to kneel at King Riley's throne and kiss his Citadel ring! As voters, you should be ashamed that you been electing this guy for the past 32 years. His arrogrance and stubbornness is astounding!
As far as the lame duck Chief, what more can be said on that? I guess it is going to take a couple of wrongful death suits against them to see if anything changes. Folks, please read up on the Peter & Paul principles! After you do, ask yourself: Is this not the lame duck Chief? Sad!
Posted by dixie on October 10, 2007 at 11:02 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I agree with Summervillesc. Enough is enough. Fix the department anyway it needs to be fixed so it can be up to date and safe. Everytime you open the paper, turn on the news or listen to the radio all you see and hear is about the CFD and the tragic event. It is time the public thinks about the 9 families that lost their loved ones, the brothers of the fire department that knew and loved those 9. Everyday it is a hurtful constant reminder of that night. How can anyone expect everyone that has been hurt, touched or affected by this tragedy to start a healing process when it is constantly in their face.
Posted by jackgumb on October 10, 2007 at 11:11 a.m. (Suggest removal)
When anything goes wrong these days we always have to blame someone...that is wrong. Remenber the saying "s**t happens" well sometimes it does. Bad things happen sometimes, but that does not mean someone is ALWAYS to blame!
Posted by redcat on October 10, 2007 at 11:53 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Jackgumb -
Yes, bad things happen and when it is totally unprecedented or unexpected someone might not be to blame. However in this case everything that happened had precedent or was previously identified as a hazard -
Truss Construction - Been identified as a Firefighter hazard for years - Why didn't CFD leaders recognize and react to the fact that the SSStore had truss construction?
Incident Command and Accountability - A National standard used by the majority of departments in the US - Again Why did leaders in the CFD not use it?
Large Diameter Hose for Water supply - been used nationally for at least a decade. Why didn't the CFD Leadership upgrade their supply hose before the fire?
The bottom line is that this tragedy could have bee avoided if CFD leaders had taken action before the fire to bring the department up to accepted standards.
So yes there is someone to blame.
Posted by jackgumb on October 10, 2007 at 1:43 p.m. (Suggest removal)
To Redcat
Hindsight is ALWAYS 20/20.
Posted by FiddlerCrab7 on October 10, 2007 at 2:36 p.m. (Suggest removal)
In all due respect, if hindsight is 20/20, then why can't leaders see the need to expedite the purchase of large diameter hoses now?
F7
Posted by truckie1 on October 10, 2007 at 3:07 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Hindsight is 20/20 however great chiefs and leaders have foresight and the ability to know when to go defensive.
Posted by WalkMan on October 10, 2007 at 3:15 p.m. (Suggest removal)
That's not foresight!! It's called legal advice.
Posted by WalkMan on October 10, 2007 at 3:55 p.m. (Suggest removal)
IAFF Testifies Before Congress on Reducing Fire Fighter Deaths
Captain Bob Livingston, legislative director for the Oregon State Council of Fire Fighters, testified before the U.S. House of Representatives Subcommittee on Technology and Innovation on ways the United States Fire Administration (USFA) could help reduce fire fighter line-of-duty deaths. Livingston told the Subcommittee that USFA should make it part of its core mission to ensure every fire department in America complies with fire safety standards, including standards for safe staffing and operations. Additionally, Livingston told the Subcommittee that all fire fighters must receive adequate training in compliance with national consensus standards
Posted by WalkMan on October 10, 2007 at 3:56 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Does any of this sound familiar?
Posted by ccfirefighterchick on October 10, 2007 at 4 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Lots of recommendations to get rid of Mayor Joe and Chief Rusty. But, the fact that the department is understaffed and not properly supplied with adequate equipment is not their fault. Chief Rusty doesn't have free run to just go buy whatever he wants the department to have or hire as many firefighters as he feels they need. Let's get off our butts and put forth the money to purchase the equipment and pay more firefighters. How many of you would argue with a new tax to fund the department? You would be sitting in the same message board griping about another new tax that you don't feel you should pay.
Let's not place blame for these brave men's deaths. It is not Chief Rusty's, Mayor Joe's, or anyone else's fault. These men died doing a job that they loved. They died doing something that they knew was inherently dangerous.
Posted by WalkMan on October 10, 2007 at 4:15 p.m. (Suggest removal)
ccfirefighterchick,
Watch. We'll come up with a way once the recommendations are out. (And it will be the same way CFD could have done it before all of this.)
Posted by redcat on October 10, 2007 at 4:40 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Hindsight? It would be Hindsight only if this were the first time it happened.
If you drove your car with bald tires, worn out brakes and no seatbelt would it be hindsight if I told you that it was your fault when you skidded off the road and killed yourself or someone else?
No, because the event WOULD have been avoided if you had just followed the accepted standards.
In the case of the SSS Fire, the CFD willingly ignored and failed to implement accepted standards THAT WOULD HAVE PREVENTED THE DEATHS.
Charleston Leaders bragged about how good the CFD was, but didn't actually ensure that it had the appropriate and up to date knowledge, equipment, and procedures that back up a "world class" fire service organization.
That these men died doing what they loved does not release those in charge from their failure to do the right things to prepare CFD for this event. Nothing that happened that day wasn't something that hadn't happened to some other organization in the fire service, ie Hackensack NJ and the failure of the truss roof killing 5 firefighters 15 years ago. This event is used throughout the US to teach the danger of this type of construction -
CFD Leadership just failed to learn the lessons from the deaths of previous firefighters in the U.S. because of their arrogance and reluctance to use that "overly cautious Yankee stuff."
A great organization taught me a significant truth about leadership - you can delegate Authority, but never responsiblity.
That means the man in charge is ALWAYs responsible for what happens in his organization - NO EXCUSES - The Leadership either knows or should have known what the shortcomings were.
Posted by concerned_NC on October 10, 2007 at 5:12 p.m. (Suggest removal)
ccfirefighterchick, we understand its your job to protect joe and rusty at any cost. Isn't 9 dead firemen enough.
Posted by thetruth on October 10, 2007 at 5:45 p.m. (Suggest removal)
ccfirefighterchick:
I've worked for the cfd for almost 20 years and its always been understaffed and under trained you would think that after 17 years rusty could have done something about that. Its clear and i say this with all do respect to you because i don't no you nor want to affend you but you have not a clue what your talking about
Posted by burton on October 10, 2007 at 6:15 p.m. (Suggest removal)
thetruth,
LOL. That was good!
Posted by charleytowngirl on October 10, 2007 at 6:55 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I am constantly amazed every time the mayor opens his mouth and says Charleston has the best man for the job of fire chief, Charleston has an ISO class 1 rating, Charleston will be a model for other fire departments across the country and internationally..........That is BS Mayor and you know it!
If the chief is the "Best" why did you find it necessary to send him to school in Maryland last week? If the chief is the "best" why is the training budget for the CFD only $6,000 per year? If the chief is the "Best" why hasn't he taken any other classes in the last several years.....I can go on and on with this, but it's stuff most of us already know and are sick of hearing the mayor say.
You spent taxpayer money on hiring this panel of experts to tell you what's wrong with the department and how to fix it. Just shut up and FIX it! Don't tell the citizens that 19 of the original recommendations have been "implemented" just because you appointed a committee to review the recommendations. Just order the damn hose! Order the uniforms! Get these men the training they need to do the job! And in my opinion, the panel needs to step up, grow a set and tell the mayor that the Chief, given his own lack of education in the fire service NEEDS TO GO!
This fire department does have the capability of being one of the best in the nation with the right tools and equipment, not because of the chief, but because of the FF's. How those men do what they do day in and day out under the circumstances they are forced to work in says alot about their dedication to the fire service.
Mayor, wake up! When your review panel has to make recommendations to bring the department up to "BASIC FIRE SERVICE STANDARDS FOLLOWED THROUGHT THE COUNTRY", that should be your biggest clue right there that something is terribly wrong with the leadership of the fire department and about your own management of public safety for the City of Charleston.
Posted by ccfirefighterchick on October 11, 2007 at 12:13 a.m. (Suggest removal)
thetruth -- I do know what I am talking about. But, thanks for not wanting to offend me since you don't know me, but I don't need to be walked around gently. I'm a strong girl that can take care of herself.
concerned_NC -- It's not my job to protect Chief Rusty or Mayor Joe at any cost. I have a brain in my head and definitely have no problem voicing my opinions.
The department does need to change some things. However, I don't feel that we should blame the chief for things beyond his control. I vote that we all pay one helluva tax to support the men and women that put their lives on the line daily to protect everyone. All firefighters should have 'booster' courses every year to update their training. Additional equipment should be purchased. More firefighters should be hired. I agree completely with these recommendations. But, I completely disagree with everyone that votes to oust the mayor and chief.
Posted by WalkMan on October 11, 2007 at 1:40 a.m. (Suggest removal)
The Fire Chief had plenty of opportunities to upgrade his department, but those opportunities ended June 18, 2007.
Posted by Res7cue on October 11, 2007 at 8:05 a.m. (Suggest removal)
ccfirefighterchick let me tell you something about firefighting the fire chief is liable for all actions of the department and just in case you dont know the meaning of the word liable -
Definitions of 'liable' (līə-bəl) - 3 definitions - The American Heritage® Dictionary
liable (adj.) Legally obligated; responsible: liable for military service. See synonyms at responsible
liable (adj.) At risk of or subject to experiencing or suffering something unpleasant. Used with to: liable to criminal charges;
liable (adj.) Likely. Often used with reference to an unfavorable outcome: In a depression banks are liable to fail
Its time for Rusty to step up and take responsiblity or step down
Posted by Res7cue on October 11, 2007 at 8:15 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Oh and by the way I dont care if I offend you.
Posted by Res7cue on October 11, 2007 at 8:23 a.m. (Suggest removal)
"On the fireground, if you become involved in a crisis situation, you will not rise to the occasion but, rather, default to your level of training" Lt. Andy Fredericks FDNY Squad 18
Posted by east3 on October 11, 2007 at 10:41 p.m. (Suggest removal)
ccfirefighterchick - the reason Chief Thomas is unfit to command the brave firefighters of Charleston is that he failed in his responsibility to prepare for June 18 and once there to take control of the events of June 18. He failed to educate himself first, then his department in the basics of fire tactics, fire command and fire hydraulics (water).
The concept of "control" in firefighting, at a fire, is to take control of the situation and control the outcome. That may mean the building burns to the ground because you cannot put out the fire before it does. But as a fireground commander you need to be able to understand the circumstances and balance that against your resources and capabilities. You need to know when to pull back. You may only be able to keep your firefighters from getting hurt and keep the fire from spreading. You need to be able to assemble the water supply and appliances necessary to "control" the fire. Thomas failed in all of these.
The CFD commanders - BC Aytes, AC Garvin and Chief Thomas never properly estimated the problem they faced. They treated it as a trash fire and investigation, then slid into an interior firefight they could not win. They never pulled back and nine men paid the price for their ignorance and incompetence.
The other sense of "control" here is that for fifteen years Thomas totally controlled the policies and procedures and training and equipment of the CFD and failed to bring his department forward, fighting fires the same way they did forty years ago. All progress in firefighting in those decades bypassed the CFD, even though the union five years ago urged the adoption of the same standards that are now both such a great part of the controversy and of the Task Force recommendations.
The resistance to change both five years ago and demonstrated so clearly by the defiant statements made in the aftermath of the fire, show how right the state OSHA findings were - the negligence was willful - intentional. Thomas declared he did not know if his policies met any standard and he didn't care and they would never change. With those statements he as much as admitted his intent to continue to defy national professional standards regardless of how many might die as a result.
Posted by Boosterhose on October 12, 2007 at 5:31 a.m. (Suggest removal)
He has also expressed his resistance to change months later. Right now he's marshalling his forces trying to maintain what he has with no changes that are not forced down his throat.
We'll hold the brass ring in front of a select few. If they jump through the proper hoops then maybe they'll be allowed to grasp it.
Meanwhile morale sinks lower and lower.
Posted by charleytowngirl on October 12, 2007 at 6:11 p.m. (Suggest removal)
East3 and Boosterhose: Hang in there guys!
Posted by vesta on October 12, 2007 at 8:45 p.m. (Suggest removal)
East3 and Boosterhose: Good comments.
One of the most disgusting comments I read today are the Mayor's comments in the Fire Chief article about the CFD and Rusty. Riley said, about the changes that will need to be made, "We will find the money. The money will come from our budget and we're on a calendar year and we'll be addressing this on the January 1 calendar budget. We will find the money. I've always made public safety our first priority."
If the mayor can NOW find the money to make these changes, why didn't the city, the mayor and the chief make these changes years before June 18, 2007 so that nine men would not have lost their lives??? If public safety has always been his first priority, WHY is the CFD living in the last century???
Posted by WardLaFrance on October 12, 2007 at 9:46 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Vesta, E3, CTgirl, Booster: It's good to see you hanging in there. It's disheartening to see that some people still don't realize that the complaints are not about blame, but rather about making sure a similar incident doesn't happen again- It's about giving City Firefighters the best tools/education/leadership to do their jobs safely so they may go home at the end of the shift. It's about valuing the employees of the CFD, caring about their families, so they don't have to deal with the same thing the Charleston 9 Families are going through. Although it involves the past, it's more about the future. These firefighters should be grateful someone is trying to look out for them, since their chief and mayor are not.
Posted by FiddlerCrab7 on October 13, 2007 at 6:12 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Well said, WardLaFrance. People aren't raising issues for the sake of being critical -- they want the best for the city of Charleston. The focus is on the future safety of the firefighters and the people who entrust their lives to the city.
Posted by bootlicked on October 14, 2007 at 11:07 a.m. (Suggest removal)
It would be good to remove Chief Winn from his position because he thinks Rusty is a competent leader. Stick to your hardwood floors bootlick.
Posted by bootlicked on October 14, 2007 at 11:26 a.m. (Suggest removal)
The culture is thick in the CFD. Change will only come with a new leader one that doesn't care about what people can do for him. A Chief that doesnn't care about brownosing but about competent people who are educated and can do their job. A Chief that doesn't care your daddy was a Chief. One that won't hire your son just because he is your son and he knows apples don't fall far from the tree. The CFD needs change now!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by noviceopinion on October 14, 2007 at 5:47 p.m. (Suggest removal)
http://youspeakvolumes.blogspot.com/
this constant argument is ridiculous.
Posted by trinitytim on October 14, 2007 at 6:40 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Well I see a lot has happened in my absence. Unfortunately, the one thing that needed to happen has not. Namely, the Chief is still the chief.
ccfirefighterchick... If you can't see the difference between leadership and stubborness, then you are a lost cause.
Rusty needs to go and he needs to go now.
Posted by nickiegarbeil on October 14, 2007 at 11:58 p.m. (Suggest removal)
noviceopinion,
I read your link...when I finished laughing at ITS ridiculousness, I resigned myself to ask you..when does HE argue with anyone? He posts the stories, his OPINION, and the rest of the readers do the rest...your link...two posts by the SAME PERSON..Everyone is entitled to their opinion on this fire...and I assure you that those opposing its handling outnumber those in support...there are MANY people NATIONALLY that weigh in on this story and the various blogs and message boards...some merely email those of us blogging...
You don't have to agree with everything he, or anyone else writes, but it is freedom of speech...it is my belief, as well as others, that those of us who blog, on any site, have the interests of Firefighters everywhere in our hearts and minds..
Respectfully
Posted by Wilmot on October 15, 2007 at 6:19 a.m. (Suggest removal)
This is from the above blog spot. >>>the problem is that too many of these people are too impassioned to make a difference.<<< What? How can you be too impassioned when the things you are impassioned about brought on the death of 9 men. 4 months and people already forget that they died. This argument isn't about some guy and how nice he is or whether you support him or not, it's about lives lost and lives that could be lost. Wake up people!
Posted by vesta on October 15, 2007 at 9:08 a.m. (Suggest removal)
For those of you who do not subscribe to the P&C, check out the Letters to the Editor section today. Jay Lowry has written an excellent letter which, surprisingly, was published! The P&C has it set up that you cannot write comment on the letter published today, until tomorrow. Great job, Jay!
Posted by vesta on October 15, 2007 at 9:25 a.m. (Suggest removal)
noviceopinion: Read your blog spot. How pompous of you to direct the fire fighters of the CFD who realize their lives are in jeopardy each and every time they go to a fire, to NOT post on these sites. For your "novice" information, not all of us are uninformed. Some of the ffs who initially posted on these sites were, in fact, at the fire that evening. Their cries for help did NOT go unheeded this time. Their cries for help, unlike their brothers', were not dimmed by a roaring fire surrounding them. We have not, nor will we ever, leave them in peril. Some who post on these sites are very experienced fire fighters and chiefs with even more years of experience than some on the CFD. We have all heard these cries for help and believe me, noviceopinion, we are going to continue to do whatever it is we can to make sure that any remaining CFD ffs come home safely to their frightened families after each and every shift. The only services we want to attend for those remaining are services thanking them for their brave efforts to keep our city safe.
Posted by nickiegarbeil on October 15, 2007 at 11:14 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Vesta,
You speak volumes...no matter what, there are those of us here for the FFs left behind, and for those yet to come...we want answers, and will not give up until we have them. No one will deter us from helping the men and women in the fire service from getting the tools they need to do the job they love in the safest manner possible.
Jay's letter to the editor made it through...Great job! Editor must be on vacation, eh?
Posted by captainscott on October 16, 2007 at 12:49 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Any new info on when the report is to be out???
Posted by nickiegarbeil on October 16, 2007 at 2:36 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Captain Scott,
The report is being kept hush hush...I have heard there are MANY more recommendations on this one, but that it has been on the Mayor's desk for several weeks. We could ASSUME that it is to minimize its impact in citizen opinion before an election. Some speculate that it won't be released before the election, others speculate it will come quietly on a weekend...
It is my OPINION that the report, paid for by the City-who in turn work for the citizens, belongs TO THE CITIZENS and should not be kept from them as it appears to be at this moment. It also APPEARS to me that the Mayor has forgotten who he WORKS for...and seems to believe he has the ultimate control over all things in this city...I consider that a rogue politician...
Posted by charleytowngirl on October 16, 2007 at 5:37 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I am in complete agreement with you on this, Nickie.
I had heard a few weeks BEFORE P&C published this article on the 20th of October that the report had already been turned over to the mayor and had been on his desk for several weeks. Even if that isn't true, he most definitely has had the report AT least since Oct. 20.....Why hold on to it?
It must be getting harder and harder for Rumplestiltzkin to spin this tragedy into gold.......
Posted by charleytowngirl on October 16, 2007 at 5:39 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Another good article by Lee Walton in www.charlestonwatch.com.
Posted by rjahopp on October 19, 2007 at 8:36 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Some have wondered why Charlestonians don't accept their views regarding the Mayor and the Chief in the aftermath of the SSS incident.
Maybe Charleston's only major paper is a key reason.
The Evening Post company's constant, negative reporting over the last 4 1/2 months regarding the Charleston Fire Department may turn people off and lead them to doubt the paper's credibility.
Informed people do want the facts; but, they are not interested in the paper's opinions given in daily articles - opinions should be saved for the editorial page.
Just give people the facts; they are more than capable of drawing their own conclusions and forming their own opinions.
The Evening Post company's reporting practices regarding the SSS fire more often than not smack of supermarket tabloid journalism which turns most citizens off - many of whom may no longer read articles about the CFD in this paper.
A little forthright, positive reporting might make their tabloid ranting more palatable.
This article exemplifies Henny-Penny, the sky is falling, opinionated negativism and speculation: task of dealing with nearly 200 recommended changes; where are we going to find the money; the report was an indictment; others look on in amazement at the sheer volume of shortcomings listed; Hiring nearly 40 new firefighters alone will constitute a financial wallop; fire service experts said that is likely to cost several hundred thousand dollars as well; I think we are living a lie here; an influx of unfamiliar equipment could be overwhelming; one expert said it's more difficult to calculate the changing of attitudes; etc. - even if there were an ounce of truth in any of these opinions, the negative presentation turns people off with a palpable degree of skepticism.
When dealing with politics, religion, and family, one never wins another over with unsubstantiated opinions or by attacking personal beliefs, particularly beliefs that they have formed over many decades.
Personal attacks and insults on a man's honesty, integrity and character, like attacks on his politics, religion, and family, win few, if any, converts.
Negative, often insulting, attacks on the Mayor, the Chief, the City of Charleston, and the citizens of Charleston are all self defeating. They turn off the very people whose support is sought. .
Look to State, Regional, and National reports to follow this story. They show their bias too, that's human nature; but, hopefully they present accurate reporting and key facts on both sides of the issues.
Fire Chief's web site shows its journalistic integrity with an honest, non-sensationalized account of the PIAERT report without the uncalled for, opinionated, negativism evidenced by the Evening Post company. Compare the two articles.
Posted by bootlicked on October 20, 2007 at 11:20 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Rj If the P&C is so screwed up why do you keep reading it? What are you going to do once this story of the Chiefs and Mayor's incompetence goes national? Have you seen what the Fire Chiefs reporter is saying now? Once again you are no longer ignorant you are an idiot. More are accepting our veiws than you or Riley must realize. You will soon realize. Maybe not. You are so blind or just don't care about the city's heroes or citizens. Get a life simpleton. Let us worry about our issues and you worry about yours. If you think Rusty has done a great job you definitely have some serious issues.