Residents rally for Rusty Thomas

burton (anonymous) says...

Blind loyalty is not the answer. The folks that are supporting Chief Thomas need to read up on the Peter Principle. Chief Thomas is a lame duck chief folks. There is no way you can implement change in the CFD and keep him in charge. He has lost the confidence of the men that work under him. Once a leader loses that confidence they have to move on. How can you implement change when the leader is resistent to change? If Chief Thomas was in the business world or in the militay, he would have been fired long time ago. This blind loyalty is not the answer. Forgt that he is a good guy and likeable. Look at all the reports that have come out that have questioned the Chief's leadership. Let me ask you this question: who should be held responsible for nine firemen dying at one time? Chief Thomas established the present culture at the CFD. Take the blindfolds off folks!! You got a lame duck chief and a King for a mayor. Those of you that are supporting them can continue to kneel and kiss the Citadel ring! Hell, you been doing it for 32 years anyway! What is another four years!

October 3, 2007 at 1:14 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Pols101 (anonymous) says...

Nothing wrong with the Citadel ring. I suggest you get one if you are so jealous of it. However, the chief has major problems and needs to go. I think the mayor has been in office too long. Retirement is the wave of the future for these two.

October 3, 2007 at 1:27 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

nitelite (anonymous) says...

Cruel and unfounded???

Well I guess what we saw on video the night of the fire, the reports by OSHA, the reccomendations by the city appointed review team, and the soon to follow ATF/NIOSHA report, as well as the subpeonas are all unfounded. This is a non story. why does the P&C feel the need to promote this rhetoric rather than do some serious investigative journalism and reach out to the fire fighters who still can't openly criticize the department?

October 3, 2007 at 1:28 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

nitelite (anonymous) says...

yankeeStuff?

did he say yankeestuff??? And they wonder why there is a request for changes at the leadership levels at the CFD.

I am really beginning to wonder what are the backgrounds of these men leading the department?

yankeestuff???

he needs a gag order....

October 3, 2007 at 2:02 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

yeahright (anonymous) says...

"overly cautious "yankee stuff""??

That's an embarrassingly ignorant comment. How can anything be "overly cautious" after what happened on June 18th? And what does one's region of origin have to do with any of this? Other than possibly more experience fighting fires of this magnitude? One more example of good ol' boy B.S.

October 3, 2007 at 2:12 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

cfdiaffman (anonymous) says...

You have to know George G. to understand him. He doesn't have much brains to work with. He had little respect from his peers and now he has none. He has always been a Rusty Ranger even though Rusty has alway treated him like he was nothing. People like George are always starving for affection and have to get that puppy dog pat on the head. For the people on James Is. you are just fools. Having you grass cut at your school is more important than your firefighters safety. Maybe Dusty Rusty will have more time soon to cut your school grass. What a sad bunch of people on J.I.

October 3, 2007 at 2:18 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

yeahright (anonymous) says...

No need to attack James Island, cfdiaffman. This story quoted TWO people, one with a job in broadcasting, and one who admits to buying and posting 200 signs to support RT. They don't speak for the entire island.

October 3, 2007 at 2:28 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Neponset (anonymous) says...

I wonder about the motivation of the leaders of this Rusty pep rally. My guess is that they are of two categories.
1. Misguided folks like Miss Zanette, who don't know the facts or their thinking process is too clouded to process them.
2. Folks who have something to gain by being a friend of city hall (ie. get approval for some new development, new contracts with city, job security, promotion in some city dept. etc).
Hey - I thought Joe went to C of C.

October 3, 2007 at 2:33 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

cfdiaffman (anonymous) says...

Sorry "yeahright" I didn't mean to put all people of JI down, it just makes me so mad that these people supporting Thomas are so stupid. They want people to email in support of Thomas.

I say make it a two way street. If you think it's time for Thomas to retire, let them know.

chiefhelpedme@comcast.net

October 3, 2007 at 2:44 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

BillyTheKid32 (anonymous) says...

Nine firemen lost their life going into a building that was cleared, or so I have read.
I have also read that there were a lot of firemen there from the golf outing, how much of a problem were they? A few beers into me and I can talk the talk but I can't walk the walk. Rusty is Rusty.

October 3, 2007 at 3:57 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

lillycollette (anonymous) says...

Ditto on the comment of nitelite: This is a non story. Why does the P&C feel the need to promote this rhetoric rather than do some serious investigative journalism and reach out to the fire fighters who still can't openly criticize the department?

A public display of warm fuzzy sure can make a body feel good. However, feel good fails to address any of the immediate issues. On the flip-side, it can also play against any future arguments that negative press was responsible for whatever the outcome may be (see your allegation of negative press -- and raise you a publicized warm fuzzy).

October 3, 2007 at 4:37 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mac0cm4 (anonymous) says...

Hmm, there must be something to that 'Yankee Stuff' if it's nationally accepted standard. With the present supervision still in place all the training in the world will not remove the attitude that has proliferated over the years that gusto is more important than safety. A year from now you will still find firefighters at CFD scenes doing what they've always done - the number of those may be lower, but they'll still be there. There will always be that mentality there, it will take a drastic change to implement a new way of thinking.

If Rusty can pull it off, then great - he'll just have to remember that hindsight is 20/20 and had he gotten off his duff earlier to move his FD forward then those 9 people would still be serving proudly.

October 3, 2007 at 4:47 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

islanders (anonymous) says...

So far I haven't read any credible facts supporting the claims against the CFD. The SC OSHA report was a joke. The CFD was fined for individuals having unbuttoned their own jackets when they were outside of the fire. That's their own decision, not a violation by the CFD. They also knew good and well the is was a steel truss system. They inspect thousands of these every year.

The fire doors were chained shut. The contractor didn't have the proper permits when construction, so the inspections were avoided.

This has become dirty politics against the city of Charleston.

I also haven't read any complaints about the fire chief by anyone at the CDF. If he was such a problem where are the facts to back that up? The CFD has done and good job of providing public safety.

All I read by you people are base allegations by political sh*t weasels. If you have some facts we would like to read them.

This was a rescue effort. A flashover occurred three minutes after someone was rescued in the back. The 911 dispatcher claimed there was someone still inside.

Someone has to make the call to go into a fire or not. Chief Thomas didn't violate any regulations with his decision. No one else can tell them when to go into a fire and when not to. That's their job to go into dangerous situations, because fires can spread.

I think flashovers like this will happen again as long as sofas are made of such a highly flammable material, stacked to the roof.

don't blame firefighters for doing their job

October 3, 2007 at 6:53 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

MHA (anonymous) says...

islanders, Allowing men under your supervision to wear polyester uniforms in to a burning building is one of the stupidest things I've ever heard of. Anyone that has worked in fire fighting in the past 3 decades knows that polyester will melt to your skin. These uniforms may not have contributed to the death of the fire fighters, but they show a complete idiocy at the tops ranks in the department and a total lack of caring on the mayor's part for allowing Rusty Thomas to keep his job after such a huge blunder. This entire episode is an embarrassment to the area and the supporters for the mayor and his chief show how backwards we can be at times. I say "we" because I'm a southerner too:, but this type of stupidity just feeds the stupid southerner stereotype. Give "bubba" a job because you're friends with his daddy. Advance "bubba" way beyond his capabilities. Keep "bubba" in a top position even though he constantly screws up. Gotta love the good ol' boy" network.

October 3, 2007 at 7:11 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

islanders (anonymous) says...

Firefighters may not be the most educated and articulate individuals, but what that guy was saying is true about the Charleston investigation. Just because improvements were suggested doesn't mean the CFD was not properly equipped or trained. A firechief with hands on experience is going to know more than OSHA or some investigation that can only go by a trail of paper work that may not be accurate. The CFD has taken the suggested improvements and used this as an opportunity to upgrade their own equipment.

But some people are not going to comprehend the scope of the situation.

It will probably get to the point where firefighters don't rescue people anymore. You can't have it both ways.

October 3, 2007 at 7:19 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

FunandGames (anonymous) says...

Yankee Stuff? How about some fire fighter stuff?

Here's some History stuff:

Montgomery County is south of the Mason Dixon, that would mkae it NOT Yankee stuff. Chief Routley and Asst. Chief Crawford are from Louisiana, most definitely South of the Mason Dixon. Tim Sendelbach, another "Yankee" from Savannah? Chief Roche is from Arizona, they weren't a state but they did become Confederate, its hard to make the arguement that he is a Yankee.

I'll concede that Chief Chiramonte is a full blooded yankee, he's from New York but that's okay with me.

You might want to look "stuff" up before you talk to the press.

October 3, 2007 at 7:57 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

MtP (anonymous) says...

Thank you to the P&C for printing the story.
It shows that a lot of people still support the Chief!
No one complained about the Chief for the past 30 years or questioned his leadership skills until now.

October 3, 2007 at 8:18 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

oldcap (anonymous) says...

Working with the Chief is an experience. He's good in the community and woeful at his profession.

Judging the department on Rusty coaching baseball is absurd. Luckily he will be leaving-he'll say retiring-but he is gone.

October 3, 2007 at 8:18 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

leelee (anonymous) says...

Islander, fireman are not the most educated or articulate people in the world? Are you kidding me? You want to make a valid point and or an opinion, and then you write something like that? I am so disgusted by your comment I am at a loss for words, and I am not even a firefighter. Duh.

October 3, 2007 at 8:19 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

oldcap (anonymous) says...

Forgot to add the bad stuff hasn't come out yet. By January there will be information that makes people shudder.

October 3, 2007 at 8:19 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

islanders (anonymous) says...

Early,

Could you point out the negligent acts? This is what they are trained to do. Go into fires and rescue people and put them out.

Please back up your statements. What other states have had fire chiefs make similar mistakes? Please post a link.

In the military people die in war. It's the same situation here. Fires have killed many firefighters in the past and will take more lives in the future. Fire is dangerous.

If he was so unqualified why has everyone been supporting him for the past 15 years? The fact is he meets the qualifications for the job and we have been very satisfied with his performance for over 15 years.

Please post a link to your own dissatisfaction before this event took place, otherwise you are just a political junkie know in all.

Now go back and read my first post more carefully.

You don't bother to dispute the facts that I stated.

The City of Charleston has challenged the accuracy of the OSHA findings.

October 3, 2007 at 8:21 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

islanders (anonymous) says...

leelee,

I was commenting to the criticism to the one firefighter use of slang or jargon. It wasn't all that articulate but I stated the context of what he said was true. While you may have more education and are more articulate, you are not very intelligent and can't keep anything in context and have no sense of right and wrong.

Keep your problems to yourself.

October 3, 2007 at 8:29 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

islanders (anonymous) says...

So now it's my fault these nine people died? Please people keep your comments directed at the topic and not make this into a personal attack on others opinions on the issue who might not agree with you.

I don't have time to argue with idiots who can't keep anything in context.

bye

October 3, 2007 at 8:33 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

ccfirefighterchick (anonymous) says...

I still support Chief Rusty and will continue to do so. Call me a "Rusty Ranger" if you people want, but he does his job as he is trained to do it. Countless people have been saved under his command, and those go unnoticed. How would you feel if during the Sofa Super Store fire the firefighters on scene brought out a baby and then nine were killed??? Does that change anything? Of course it does! You people only go for the sensationalism. Nine men were killed in an unfortunate blaze and you immediately want to blame the fire department. How about the owner??? From most of the comments I've seen, you people are completely supporting the business owner when he illegally built, didn't seem to know what he was selling, didn't read contracts, chained and padlocked doors, and failed to test his fire doors. That is worse in my mind than sending firefighters into a building to fight fire!

Again, I'm glad this story ran. I mean, come on, what would you guys have complained about today if it hadn't???

October 3, 2007 at 8:36 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

islanders (anonymous) says...

Early, you are the one who took issue with my post, yet ignored the statements I made. I didn't call you out.

From what I have read, the front windows were taken out so that firefighters could escape.

So you really haven't even bothered to read the most basic reports.

And what makes you qualified to be an expert on fires?

I also read that a flashover happens when a room is depleted of oxygen. A flahover is when there is a fire in part of a room and smoke and gases spread out until the oxygen is depleted and everything catches on fire at the same time.

This is what happened at the Sofa Super Store, a flashover not a back draft.

Next time get your facts straight and do a little research before you start calling for someones job.

I support people who work hard and are an asset to our community.

Sorry, I don't have more time to do your research for you.

October 3, 2007 at 8:54 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

burton (anonymous) says...

Islander,
You need to read up on the Peter Principle. This is a classic case. Yes, the dept has been moving along for the past 15 years, but then along comes that one event that shows the incompetence of the leader(s). This sofa super store fire proved that. The command structure of the CFD was not ready to handle a fire of that magnitude. A culture had been developed where it was ok to fight fires without all your safety equipment on. A culture had been developed that the lame duck chief would be the one in charge at the fire and would ignore the command structure that was already supposed to be set in place. A culture had been established that chaos at a fire was acceptable as long as the job got done. And lastly, the comments by Capt. Gardiner proves that change will never happen at the CFD as long as you still have the same leadership structure in place. Anyone that has taken a management class knows this. You can't implement new changes if the current culture is resistent to change. Take the blindfold off Sir and do not comment again until you read up on the Peter Principle.

October 3, 2007 at 8:54 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

islanders (anonymous) says...

burton, just try and stay on topic and do a little research on fighting fires, not what you learned in management class. So now you are an expert on fighting fires?

I have personally worked with Charleston Fire Department. They oversee construction projects with some of the largest contractors in the nation. Some of the best hospitals in the nation are in the city limits, universities, as well as hotels.

The Charleston Fire Department has done a top job of providing public safety.

No wonder you losers can't argue the facts, and just come across and know it all jackasses who resent anyone who works hard to get ahead in life.

If I don't respond to your comments that doesn't mean I agree with you.

October 3, 2007 at 9:03 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Local (anonymous) says...

"Many of Thomas' critics agree that the chief is an affable, big-hearted man, but they say that doesn't qualify him to lead a fire department."

Exactly. It is time for Rusty to do the right thing and step aside.

October 3, 2007 at 9:04 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

jadmom (anonymous) says...

Of course Rusty is a nice guy, he's an Island boy and all that and people revere him. But, I'm appalled at the number of people that are very pro-Rusty, just because he's Rusty. Are they keeping up with the stories and the facts? Also, Islander, just because many of the chiefs in the department are not educated, does NOT mean that the firefighers aren't. Many are college-educated. Also, if any of you had loved ones that were actually in the department, your views would change. If there are things that need to be changed and haven't in the past, now's the time. To say the OSHA report is a joke is just ignorance. Sorry. It's like parents that will never believe their children do anything wrong, even when the proof is right there.

October 3, 2007 at 9:04 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

MHA (anonymous) says...

Failure to see how poorly the city is managed is why the same officials keep getting elected year after year. Those same officials appoint the same inadequate supervisors to positions within city management. As long as this cycle continues, the streets will continue to fall apart, the schools will continue to fall apart and perform poorly, crime will continue to rise, traffic will continue to get worse, the economy will continue to suffer as Charleston loses contract after contract with new business and lives will continue to be needlessly lost. You're making your own bed Charlestonians... I hope you sleep well in it.

October 3, 2007 at 9:08 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

icbmman (anonymous) says...

ccfirefighterchick makes a good point. While I think Mr. Goldstein is getting unbelievable crap thrown at him, he did seem to run a store where he cut corners and did not design his business with the highest quality. Oh sure, his furniture may have been great, but I think he cut expenses on his facility on Savannah Highway. The store itself used to be an old Piggly Wiggly that was built in the 70s before the city annexed it. The obsolete design in itself needed to be changed, and he didn't pay for it.

If I owned my own business, I would invest as much money as possible to have the safest, most modern, and most workable store in the region. So I wouldn't EVER use chains and padlocks on my doors. I would invest in a sprinkler system (usually insurance companies give a discount for that) and modern alarm system. The bottomline is that Mr. Goldstein is reaping from the shortcuts and methods he used to save money. This tragedy shows that it's just not worth it.

October 3, 2007 at 9:08 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

n4dhs (anonymous) says...

My husband did 25 years in the Navy and retired in '93 - the Navy phased out their polyester uniforms YEARS ago! - you should see some of the scars my husband has from solder and stuff falling on his uniforms when he was working on electronic equipment (he was an electronic tech when he was enlisted) - so if anyone says that polyester uniforms are OK to wear in a fire whether you have protective covering over it or not then you are an idiot!

October 3, 2007 at 9:19 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

nubianeducator (anonymous) says...

I support Rusty Thomas. I have never seen or heard of so many people that aren't in his shoes, having so much to say. Firefighters are aware of the risk that they have when they fight fires. THis isn't the first time that firefighter's lives have been lost in a fire. So what makes this so diffrent. If these men were alive right now, they would probably support Rusty Thomas because this was there job. They loved it. They knew the risk and yet continued to do their job.

October 3, 2007 at 9:34 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

jadmom (anonymous) says...

Nubianeducator, do you have a loved one who works for the city of charleston fire department? It's not that folks dislike Rusty, it's that many things were brought out years ago that needed to be changed and were not. Unfortunately, it ultimately comes back to the man in charge. Make the changes, catch up to to the times, reward the best workers not necessarily your buddies and then let's see how people feel.

October 3, 2007 at 9:38 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

aquaticorange (anonymous) says...

nubianeducator, do you think they blindly follow him? do you KNOW they LOVED their job? because I know one of them who wasn't fully satisfied with it. Do you know that they would support rusty? Because I don't think you do, and I can almost assure you they wouldn't. Believe it or not, firemen put their own safety before the politics of what has become the blame game for the city of charleston. No, its not the first time a firefighter's life has been lost in a fire, but it is the first time that the public can see the inadequacy of the city of charleston's leadership.

The mayor can spend $8 million on city hall, but buys the cheapest gear for his firemen, spends $25 on training per man per year and buys polyester uniforms because they last longer, saving him money. Vote out Joe.

October 3, 2007 at 9:53 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

aquaticorange (anonymous) says...

as for islanders, you are one of the most ignorant people here. it is quite obvious that while you "worked" with them, your condescending attitude probably made it very difficult to be able to communicate effectively, much less get to know the men who are protecting this community and saving lives just like yours every day.

PS- if you knew what actually happened at that fire, you wouldn't have to go on the post and courier website and argue about the details... because the "details" in the reports are hardly scraping the surface.

October 3, 2007 at 10:02 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

easy (anonymous) says...

this CHICK and everyone that signed the card are the same type that have their heads in the sand out there on the island. you have no clue what has happened and was has been going on, they are all just trying to get seen and somehow make a name for themselves, i guess we will all see after MAYOR JOE BLOW ME loses the election, and the new mayor gets rid of the DUSTY RUSTY....

October 3, 2007 at 10:44 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

bfd1318 (anonymous) says...

Islander,

Flashover-The temperature in a compartment that results in the simultaneous ignition of all of the contents in the space.

You can not have ignition in an oxygen depleted environment. Essentials of FF page 50.

Maybe you should do some research before you comment.

October 3, 2007 at 10:56 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

jameschucktown5 (anonymous) says...

Aquaticorgange,

And just what do you know that others don't know? Talk about condescenting--I would aggrogant to discrible you and ignorant.

October 3, 2007 at 11:09 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

LeeWalton9 (anonymous) says...

This article--and the letters to the editor, the yard signs and other forms of support--is deserved. There is huge support for Chief Thomas, as there should be. He is an honorable, competent and respected chief. He has led the department with distinction and if some there do not like him, I'll bet it is because they created their dissatisfaction by not performing to the chief's standards.

I say again: Whom would you prefer to answer a call to your house--Chief Thomas or Yow or Lowry?

October 3, 2007 at 11:33 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

yeahright (anonymous) says...

Somebody's been drinking the Kool-Aid.

October 3, 2007 at noon ( permalink | suggest removal )

JH09915 (anonymous) says...

I absolutely agree with LeeWalton9.

October 3, 2007 at noon ( permalink | suggest removal )

leblackw (anonymous) says...

For years the JIPSD fire department has been in jeopardy with the city of charleston wanting to take them under their belt, and for years the JIPSD firemen have been pleading against this. A few of the arguments from these firefighters include the quality and capability of the city's firehoses/equipment, training priorities, and overall firefighting tactics. From a JIPSD fireman "it's not their fault. those guys have been trained to run up to a burning building and take action without surveying the scene first."

Firefighting is a dangerous job, and we as a city should place the highest priority in making sure our firefighters are overly protected, overly prepared, overly ready for what could come their way. They give us their all and it's only fair that we give them ours.

Among my firefighting friends this is not the first time the city of charleston's tactics have been questioned by their firefighting peers (notice I did not include the media or community, so don't go all haywire on this, it's mere conversation). For instance, several years ago JIPSD ff's were the first to respond to a house fire on Folly Beach. 10 minutes later the CFD shows up and immediately raises the ladders, running to blow out windows and take action on the fire. Sounds well and good, but they didnt hesitate to survey the area or even communicate with the PDS ff's on site and could have seriously injured or killed the three PSD ff's who were inside had other PSD ff's not stopped them. They are trained to just attack. Why can't we put more focus on new and improved tactics to prepare these boys for the worst to come?

It's a shame that this happened, but let's give everyone a chance to heal first and then learn from the mistakes. Change doesn't happen over night, and changing an entire city's fire department policies won't happen in what civilians know to be "a reasonable amount of time." While I am irate that notices, warnings and recommendations seem to have been ignored prior to this incident, I think it's only fair that we give the city a chance to show us that they can change, improve, and get smarter about fighting fires!

I challenge you, Rusty and co. to earn your keep and change for the better protection of our men and women!!

October 3, 2007 at 12:24 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

saveaff (anonymous) says...

Wake up people!
Being a great guy doesn't qualify you as a fire chief. A fire chief has to make decisions that determine the lives of all his employees on a daily basis. He has to keep up with the changes that happen in the fire service and make sure his staff is prepared, trained, and ready to protect the citizens of Charleston. Thomas didn't do this and in his own statements after the fire proved this! OSHA proved this! The panel proved this! Now 9 firefighters are dead! All the training and recommendations that they are implementing are things that other fire departments have been doing for years! If you are a firefighter please educate the public so they can understand that thomas and the mayor need to go!

October 3, 2007 at 12:42 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

FightingCocks (anonymous) says...

LeeWalton9: "He has led the department with distinction and if some there do not like him, I'll bet it is because they created their dissatisfaction by not performing to the chief's standards."

I'll give you one thing, the chief definitely has ran his department with distiction... Yes, Distinctly different from national standards! Thats what all this boils down to. We have had two firefighters now that have come forward talking about the bad conditions and bad management in the CFD. I'm sure with time there will be more that come forward. I have to agree with Jay Lowry when he interviewed with Channel 4 news... "If an engineer designs/builds a bridge and it collapses, they don't ask the same engineer to rebuild it"... It is time to send Rusty packin!

October 3, 2007 at 12:53 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

hipchick (anonymous) says...

Wow...this commentary is humbling. I was here in 1989 when Hugo tore up this town & I saw people come together in a way I never thought possible. Mayor Riley was not at fault for the devastation of Hugo, just as Rusty is not at fault for this tragedy. Things have certainly changed in this community, for the worse, when one man is attacked for the mistakes of many. Another state is looking really good for my retirement years.

October 3, 2007 at 1 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

yeahright (anonymous) says...

hipchick- I think what people are trying to point out is that RT is fighting fires the same way they were fought in 1989. Chances are "another state" uses modern technology and nationally accepted standards in fighting fire.

October 3, 2007 at 1:27 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

bourbo17 (anonymous) says...

Everyone needs to realize that most of the firefighters are ashamed of Capt. Gardiner's comments. Everyone in the department knows he is a moron.

October 3, 2007 at 1:34 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

bickleseagrave (anonymous) says...

Quote islanders "
Could you point out the negligent acts? This is what they are trained to do. Go into fires and rescue people and put them out.

Please back up your statements. What other states have had fire chiefs make similar mistakes? Please post a link."

There was negligence in the recent training tragedy in Baltimore and guess what happened, heads rolled!

Not having coats buttoned or worn is not as serious as the "Willful Negligence" of there not being an Incident Command system. Are you a firefighter islander, probably not, because pretty well every experienced firefighter in North America have seen the videos and heard RT's ridiculous qoutes about not cahnging and doing it his way. It is "willful Negligence" as OSHA pointed out.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/bal-...

October 3, 2007 at 1:36 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

McBear (anonymous) says...

Institutions and people are resistant to change. There was plenty of evidence that the SSS fire scene was not properly managed. The investigation is meant to discover why the fire was not properly fought. The mayor must support the FC- there is nothing else he can do- for now, anyway. If there are institutional abuses- fire doors locked, etc., this suggests a problem endemic across many boundaries. This is a management problem. The investigation(s) and now this lawsuit should reveal what the problem(s) are. The "willful" element of this- if these institutional problems have existed for years- suggests that management has been blind, or unwilling to make changes, or incompetent, or maybe all three. Such management needs to be excised. May I make an analogy to sports? If you play, and play badly, you sit the bench, or you "retire".

October 3, 2007 at 2:02 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

jjmp03 (anonymous) says...

I completely agree that the training of all firefighters needs to be updated as often as mandated. No argument there!!

I could not imagine the responsibility that Chief Rusty Thomas has, but it should not all fall on him.

As for the comments of the good ole' boy BS and the Yankee comments ... grow up people. If you do not like it here, PLEASE go back to where you came from. We are tired of your complaining and that would also ease traffic so much!!! :-)

October 3, 2007 at 2:03 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

BILLYBOB (anonymous) says...

YES-BREAKING THE WINDOWS OUT DID CAUSE A BACK DRAFT----BUT LOOK AT THE UNIFORM IT WAS NOT A CFD FF.

October 3, 2007 at 2:28 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

islanders (anonymous) says...

In a perfect world we wouldn't have fires.

I think this could have happened at any of the Sofa Super Stores.

The situation was just too unforgiving.

I'll save my politics for the voting booth, thank you.

October 3, 2007 at 2:32 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

MHA (anonymous) says...

I'm just glad I live outside of the Charleston FD jurisdiction. If Rusty Thomas showed up to lead a fight against fire at my house, I'd send him away. Based on his past performance, the firefighting training I had in the military better qualifies me to lead the effort. I'm sure there are a lot of great men fighting fires for the city. Poor management and leadership can not only hinder their efforts, but can endanger their lives. The new fire fighters are only as good as they are taught. They will follow a leader in to a bad situation just because they don't know any better yet. More fire fighters will die under Rusty Thomas' "leadership". Some will die because fighting fires can be a deadly occupation. Some will die because the people in leadership positions in Charleston do an inadequate job. All of hose that give their lives will be heroes, but when a hero dies needlessly, someone should be held accountable.

October 3, 2007 at 2:49 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

captivated (anonymous) says...

jameschucktown5-DUH-WHAT?!! Here's a suggestion. Try posting your thoughts before the six pack!

October 3, 2007 at 2:53 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

jjmp03 (anonymous) says...

Oh please remind me of how many firefighter's have died under the leadership after alllll of these years???????????? Please humor me!

Get a grip and stop being so judgemental. "If Rusty Thomas showed up to lead a fight against fire at my house, I'd send him away." Then if you think that you are better w/ your qualifications, then do something about it and apply for the position!

This is what kills me. Everyone who judges, or is critical or demeaning does not do anything to help. They just sit on their butts and do nothing!!

October 3, 2007 at 3 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

islanders (anonymous) says...

Exactly, the vast majority of people who live in Charleston have confidence in the CFD and Mayor Riley to continue providing public safety.

Not everyone agrees with all of Riley's policies, but when it comes to public safety we have confidence in his abilities to manage these situations.

Perhaps we can be accused for being traditional but there is a lot to say for experience as well.

By the way here is a link to the definition of a "flash over"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flashover

Please note: "

These are some of the signs firefighters are looking for, when they attempt to determine whether a flashover is plausible.

* If the room is closed or mostly closed, so the oxygen of the room has been consumed, a flashover is plausible. Flashovers in open air are very rare."

I never claimed to be a firefighter, I only claimed to support ours.

If you aren't from Charleston, please make this clear in your post.

October 3, 2007 at 3:08 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

islanders (anonymous) says...

You can read why the front windows were broken out here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlest...

October 3, 2007 at 3:14 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

cakie (anonymous) says...

These poor families of the fire fighters-will they ever get to put this to rest- As some one that lost a love one in a tragic way - there has to be closer-not the consant blame-I am not a stupid person and if I support rusty are not it is my right to choose- That is why I live in this country!the right to have free speech- Get involved -Be active in your city -Charleston is a great place to live --support it or leave-

October 3, 2007 at 3:42 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

MHA (anonymous) says...

Apply for a position within the City of Charleston ... that is funny.

1) I'm not in the good old boy network, so I'd never get the position.
2) I'd never take that big of a pay cut.
3) I don't want to deal with the crappy traffic that goes with working in Charleston.
4) I don't want to ruin my car driving on Charleston streets every day.
5) I don't want my family subjected to the crime in Charleston.
6) If I did get the position, I'd get fired for laughing at the mayor every time he walked in a room.

There would be an upside to taking that job though... job security.. no matter how poorly I performed.

October 3, 2007 at 3:53 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

jeffyoung007 (anonymous) says...

The public does not have the means to evaluate the chief's effectiveness. They are not firefighters, they know nothing of the fire service. Let the firefighters fix their problem, if you like a city official elect him or her to mayor, do not get involved with something you have no comprehension of and risk peoples lives you do not know.

October 3, 2007 at 4 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

firebreather (anonymous) says...

I know I am more qualified than Rusty.....I have had numerous ICS classes....I have been accepted to the Executive Fire Officer Program in Emmitsburg MD. Islander...you obviously need help....look outside the box....do some research and look at other sites that show what other fire departments do on a daily basis. You will find that the practices done on a normal day are not even a thought in many of the city fire officers thoughts. It is time for the command staff to step down....allow change for the better! The firefighters deserve better....much better. No, I would not like the job...but I bet if the position was opened...we would fine some of the finest chief officers from around the country with a great deal of training and expertise apply! Maybe one of them could be Joe Blow Me's godson like Rusty....and get the job!!!

October 3, 2007 at 4:03 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

JH09915 (anonymous) says...

To M.H.
Who in the hell are you trying to bs?
If your house were on fire, (God forbid
), you would send Rusty away if he came to fight it??
I can't believe you said something so ignorant and in a public forum..
God help you man!!

October 3, 2007 at 4:41 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

hotrod2007 (anonymous) says...

This article is strictly political. If you don't like Joe then Vote for Rusty on November 6th. It would be nice if the P & C did some investigative reporting and get the views of the firefighters.

Considering this matter further, I would not terminate RT. It is probably best to reduce his rank to firefighter and allow him to walk in shoes of the Charleston 9. Maybe then Joe would get the FF the resources they need to save Rusty.

One thing is fact, it will take a lot of Gene Reeds to shut down Motley Rice.

October 3, 2007 at 4:43 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

icbmman (anonymous) says...

MHA, your political affiliations and agenda are oozing to the surface, especially each time you make a comment considering this subject. If you hate this area so much (and yes, this is the Charleston area, take it or leave it), please know that I-26 takes you northwest far away from here. Turn left or right on I-95 and find some other place you can complain about.

Does Riley need to be voted out? Yes, but not replaced with the current lineup of candidates. Should Rusty be fired? No, but he should be demoted since he has shown incompetancy in following nationally mandated regulations through the NIMS (National Incident Management System) and has made other poor judgements (the polyester uniforms and unbuttoned coats with suspenders hanging out just shows laziness and lack of attention to detail).

Despite the city's flaws, I still felt safer and more protected when I lived there. The city has such potential, and the good ol' boy system it fosters has hindered the city from truly becoming the leader in the state and Southeast US.

October 3, 2007 at 5:24 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

JH09915 (anonymous) says...

Firebreather.. your comments are unbelievable..
If you are so qualified, where were you on June 18??
I need to echo a comment that I see here.. I 26 and or I 95 will take you out of here.. I am sure that if you are as sharp as you say you are , you will have no problem becoming a fire marshall or even a mayor somwhere else..

October 3, 2007 at 5:49 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

jjmp03 (anonymous) says...

Oh please remind me of how many firefighter's have died under the leadership after alllll of these years???????????? Please humor me!

This is what kills me. Everyone who judges, or is critical or demeaning does not do anything to help. They just sit on their butts and do nothing!!

I just felt a need to repeat myself.

I like the comment about I95 and I26 taking people back to where they came from or either they can leave. Hey! That is one way to alleviate the traffic problems!!

October 3, 2007 at 6:16 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

exorcist_pencocky (anonymous) says...

icbmman - Having delusions of grandeur again, are we. I would thought, even you could see, that the city of charleston is just getting by, through leaching off the other citys nearby.

October 3, 2007 at 6:31 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

charleytowngirl (anonymous) says...

Islanders wrote: "I have personally worked with Charleston Fire Department. They oversee construction projects with some of the largest contractors in the nation. Some of the best hospitals in the nation are in the city limits, universities, as well as hotels."

and also wrote:

"The Charleston Fire Department has done a top job of providing public safety."

Public safety....Top Job!?! Then why does Chief Thomas send ONE engine in response to an automatic alarm at hospitals or schools.

The other fire departments in the area send a larger response. What happens the ONE time the automatic alarm at an hospital (full of people who can't get out of bed) is the real thing and then they have to wait on CFD to send more engines while the building is rapidly burning?!! You think that is doing a "top job" of providing public safety?!?!? Puhleaseee............!

Let me know if you feel any different when one of YOUR relatives dies in a fire because the Chief does not believe it would be best to send more than one engine to an automatic alarm at a hospital!

God bless the Charleston 9. I support the firefighters for change!

October 3, 2007 at 6:55 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

jammer (anonymous) says...

"yankeestuff"?? so is just about everyone here

even the people that came here before the civil war came into "yankeeville" on America before they headed south, excluding American Indians we're all yankee's if you follow true roots

I have roots that go back over 400 yrs here in Charleston, but even they came in to America up north around Mass., and some into Ellis Is. later

October 3, 2007 at 7:20 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Boosterhose (anonymous) says...

Billybob,
There were 2 CFD white shirts watching that ff knock out the windows. No way that wasn't a result of thier "leadership".

October 3, 2007 at 7:28 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

SamKentov (anonymous) says...

Ms. Zanette, Why don\\\'t you ask a family member of one of the Nine to sign the card. I would be like to see if you have any takers.

RT-FTM

October 3, 2007 at 7:38 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

jifdeng3 (anonymous) says...

Just take one look at who is calling for what. Fire Service leaders want him out, and residents who know nothing about firefighting are his support. That sums it up there. CFD needs a new leader.....period. Its not a political statement, and its not a witch hunt. Rusty is a good man, I have talked with him many times, and he has a big heart. I am sure that he is devestated over the loss of his men. That does not changs the facts though. His blatent disregard to modern firefighting methods, equipment, and command lead to this.

October 3, 2007 at 8:37 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Boosterhose (anonymous) says...

If MHA's house was on fire he would be quite right to send Rusty away. You see the lowest man in the whole dept has more certification than R. Thomas. He has no state certification. MHA's best bet would be to retain the crews and keep Thomas away.
Roger Yow over Rusty: Read the above. Roger has demonstrated that he is willing to change and adapt with changes in modern fire fighting.
If Yow had been in charge those 9 men would most likely be worrying about what to get thier kids for Xmas. Instead you have grieving families having a black Xmas.

October 3, 2007 at 8:38 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

charleytowngirl (anonymous) says...

I was a Rusty supporter in the beginning, but it did not take long for my opinion to change.

If citizens of Charleston would take the time to read and do a little research on nationally accepted practices used in fire departments all across the country, they would see how behind the times this dept. is. If Rusty truly cared about his brothers, he would step aside and let someone lead this department into the 21st century.

Lives depend on it.

And, by the way, the "most excellent fire chief" should not have to be sent to another state for basic training in incident command. If he were so wonderful, wouldn't he be teaching it to others, instead of learning what has been practiced in departments countrywide for YEARS!?!

October 3, 2007 at 8:57 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

jifdeng3 (anonymous) says...

Islander, If you are still here Ill give you some reasons, and this is from a firefighter.

1. Top and foremost.... LACK OF COMMAND.... There was no organized command system in place at this fire. The initial incident commander went inside. The IC should have relied on his first due companies to relay a report on interior conditions. As the fire progressed there should have been sector chiefs, and so on and so forth. The radio traffic was terrible. No radio discipline at all. Rusty didnt even know what the national ICS standard were, remember.

2. Hose size... The City used hose that should not be used at a structure fire. Namely 1 inch booster for attack, and 2.5 inch for supply. This severly limits the amount of water you can get from the hydrant, and that you can put on a fire.

3. The amount of sofas had nothing extra to do with the flashover, ANY room can flash. The trick is to know the signs and get you butt out.....training. Did these men know what to look for? Extreme heat, Black smoke banking to the floor, flames rolling through the smoke. Flashover gives plenty of warning. You must either cool the room with ALOT of water, or retreat. In this case, with the fire load, and construction type, retreat is the only option. But the city doesnt let property burn, do they. (Rustys words)

4. This structure should have been vented from the roof before the interior was well involved. That would have allowed heat and fire gasses to escape and reduce the chance for flashover.

5.Sure, they were individuals withot gear, guess what, some where chiefs. If my chief saw me on the fireground without gear I would be going home to think about it with a nice write up in hand. But when the leaders are doing it, it suddenly becomes ok for the troops to do it

If you need more I can keep going. Listen, I like Rusty, he is a good guy. However there comes a time when you need to seperate the good guy and the fire chief. Rusty needs to step down and allow a progressive modern fire chief to take the helm in the city. Charleston could become a model fire dept, but not under this staff. I feel for the men of the department who feel stuck right now.

October 3, 2007 at 9:05 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

burton (anonymous) says...

And you wonder why King Riley has been on the throne for 32 years?? It is amazing the blind alligiance some people on this board have. Do you not know incompetence when you see it? I mean let's just use common sense. Jay Lowery put it nicely: "if an engineer designs a bridge and it collapses, they don't ask the same engineer to redesign it."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Pr...

October 3, 2007 at 9:10 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

FightingCocks (anonymous) says...

I couldn't have said it better myself jifdeng3

October 3, 2007 at 9:20 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

WalkMan (anonymous) says...

I could sit here and write until tomorrow about the shortcoming of the CFD. I could also write quite a bit about the strengths of this department and it would go on being debated over and over again. The point is that Chief Thomas ran the CFD "his" way for years believing (and promoting) that these national standards wouldn't work on the peninsula of Charleston. The historic district is just so "different" that we can't follow these "standards." CFD is not eligible for federal grant money because of their failure to comply. Let me give all the readers just ONE standard...just ONE, and then follow it with a question.

One national standard states that no firefighter should be committed to the interior of any structure where there is any indication that a metal truss system has been exposed to fire. (It doesn't' say proof just an "indication.") Now my question is this; was their deaths preventable? My opinion: Undeniably yes.

I do not have a malicious thought towards Chief Thomas, but I am angry and hurt. I do not envy the position he is in or the road he must travel. But this is a road paved by years of neglect; ignorance and a complete lack of respect for what the rest of the firefighters/departments in this country have learned (many times the hard way) and tried to share. The CFD takes EXTREME pride in not conforming; "we do it our way." Aggressiveness is the hallmark of CFD's philosophy, no matter what. Chief Thomas is responsible for the continuation of this philosophy and that is not going to change while he remains the fire chief. I wish him well in his future, but not as the City of Charleston's Fire Chief.

October 3, 2007 at 9:30 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

bfd1318 (anonymous) says...

Islander,

Firefighter I and Firefighter II do not come from wikipedia. They come from an IFSTA manual in accordance with NFPA 1001.

That is also where the definition of flashover came from.

October 3, 2007 at 10:06 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

SamKentov (anonymous) says...

BTW, Mr. Gardiner (I didn\\\'t call you captain for a reason), you truly showed the true fire service professionals your ignorance with the statement \\\"...a tragic accident no one could have predicted would happen.\\\" I would suggest that you invest in the DVD \\\"The Art of Reading Smoke\\\" and then re-think your statement.

October 3, 2007 at 10:07 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

bfd1318 (anonymous) says...

Islander,

Also, the definition that you are quoting from wikepedia is for a "rich flashover" or Backdraft. Totally different.

Go back and read the whole thing.

October 3, 2007 at 10:20 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

islanders (anonymous) says...

Walkman and jfding3, I can appreciate your reasoning and appreciate you sharing your experience.

I wish I could say the same for the rest of you, but sorry, I can't.

I also agree the fire department has to sort out it's own problems.

However, I still think you may be taking things out of context. If you never allow a firefighter inside a building with a steel truss has been exposed to fire, there are always exceptions to the rule. For example, the World Trade Center was exposed to heat when hundreds of firefighters rushed inside and up the stairs. I guess they had a good old boy system, and were run out of a rail for their incompetence? Were they calling for the mayor to retire?

I don't remember that response. I remember the community pulling together and dealing with their issues with respect to one another.

Also, no one else here was at the fire. This isn't a training exercise. You can never teach someone how to adapt to the real world. That's what real people are for. So, every situation is different. But they were there in three minutes. Mistakes are made and they have to work with what they have until more equipment can arrive.

But there wasn't much time with this fire.

All of you are also ignoring the other serious violations by having doors padlocked, sofas staked up, smoking, no sprinklers.

Rusty Thomas wasn't hiding some secret strategy. This is a unique city. He has a excellent track record.

I do appreciate some of your post, but others are so sensational I can't respond.

9 people died and the city, state and feds are evaluating the situation. Changes are being made.

But Charleston is a unique city. If you let a fire get going downtown it could consume the entire city. It has happened before.

Everyone always thinks they can do a better job, and I'm old enough to know the hard way they can't.

October 3, 2007 at 10:35 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

goosecreekff (anonymous) says...

Ms. Zanette, Being a city fire chief is not a popularity contest. I have no doubt that RT is a fine person. But he is a poor fire chief. Most city fire chiefs have a college education, attend classes and seminars around the US and have a well educated command staff. This is not the case at the CFD. Local firefighters experience first-hand the antiquated methods of the CFD. The citizens, mayor, and chief do not understand current fire fighting methods. As long as RT is the Chief, no one will ever know how backwards CFD really is. This horrible tragady places the CFD in the national news. IF the CFD is on par with our state and national fire departments, the scrutiny would subside. We could begin the healing. Nationwide firefighters ask, "How could a city fire dept. be this backward!" I receive many phone calls from fire service friends asking me if what they read and see is how the CFD really operates. To their astonisment I have to say, "Yes!" RT is a black eye to the CFD. His lack of progress and refusal to modernize is a crime. What you do not know is the RT you hold up as a great fire chief is really a dinosaur. Because he would not allow CFD to advance in everything fire, he is accountable for the loss of life at the SSS. As long as RT is chief, nothing will change at the CFD and he'll conntinue to be obsolete. RT's command staff is taking Incident Command classes in Maryland. Upon their return to CFD, they cover up their new found ignorance by calling their nationally recognized trainers names (ie: Yankees). These are the same advanced classes most chief officers take early in our fire service career, yet it is new to the CFD. What a shame. Ms.Zanette, you have NO CLUE.

October 3, 2007 at 10:35 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

goosecreekff (anonymous) says...

What is so unique about Charleston? Here we go again with the city burning down if not for the CFD. If you were to leave Charleston and travel to any old city you'll find the same construction type's and consentration of buildings. All major citys have had conflagration's in their histroy. Sorry, Charleston is not that unique. What you won't find in other cities is 2.5 inch supply line, booter lines for fire attack or the Incident Commander running around the fire ground with his protable radio screaming for more water!

October 3, 2007 at 10:58 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

jifdeng3 (anonymous) says...

The World Trade Center was a different type construction. It was type I or fire-Resistive construction. All structural elements and most interior elements are required to be noncombustible. Interior, nonbearing partitions are permitted to be 1 or 2 hour rated. For nearly all occupancy types, Type I construction can be of unlimited height. Also, most steel in type I construction is coated with a fire and heat resistant coating to protect the steel. A skyscaper under fire had NEVER collapsed prior to WTC. Look at building 7 for example. What did it take like 7 hours under fire to finally collapse. However type II, or non-combustable, of which steel trusses fall into have a extensive history of collapse under fire load. If you look at that fact right there, FDNY would have not expected it to collapse, but the IC at SSS should have been aware of the performance of a steel truss under fire load. WTC was an extreme event that no FD could have prepared for, but there are thousands of fires every year in buildings with steel truss roofs that can be studied.

October 3, 2007 at 11:05 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

rjahopp (anonymous) says...

jammer,

re: "even the people that came here before the Civil War came into "yankeeville" ... before they headed South, excluding American Indians we're all yankee's if you follow true roots"

This is a historically inaccurate statement.

Prior to the Civil War the term Yankee was typically used to refer only to residents in the New England States. In the mid-eighteenth century the British had derisively referred to soldiers from New England as Yankees.

The term "Yankee," as used by most Southerners today, originated during and after the American Civil War, its popular meaning expanded to include any Northerner or resident of the Union (i.e. lived North of the Mason-Dixon Line).

In that context, if you follow true roots, only Southerners who migrated from the North to the South after the Civil War would be of true Yankee heritage and that would be almost two hundred years after the founding of Charlestown in 1670.

Also, hundreds of thousands migrated to the Southern U.S. without coming through Northern ports in MA, Ellis Island in NY, etc.

There were many Southern immigration ports, including Charleston, Georgetown, and Port Royal, S.C.; Mobile, AL; Key West and St. Augustine, FL; Savannah and Darien, GA; New Orleans, LA; Baltimore and Annapolis, MD; Edenton, New Bern, Plymouth and Washington, NC; Alexandria, Hampton, Norfolk,Portsmouth and Richmond, VA. Some folks may have immigrated to Canada before moving to the South.

We're not all Yankees if you "follow true roots." It is believed that my German-Irish-British ancestors in Charleston entered the U.S. from the port in Baltimore, MD, south of the Mason-Dixon Line - never having touched "Yankee soil."

October 3, 2007 at 11:42 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

islanders (anonymous) says...

You still need to address the other fire violations.

Haven't safety advocates and fire officials been trying to do something about the flammable nature of the sofas?

Yep, that's about all you can do is stand back when a sofa warehouse catches on fire and watch people die and it spread to a gas station then a residential neighborhood.

Also, firefighters die every year fighting wildfires. So, sometimes it's just a bad situation that can't be prevented and you have to learn from it.

How long have we had these retail sofa warehouses?

But you guys just read and see what you want to see.

By the way Chief Rusty was on the news. He said the entire department from top to bottom were going to implement the suggested improvements.

goosecreekff.. you just like thumbing your nose at Charleston. Enjoy it while you can.

You experts should be fire chief of mayor of some other city. Make sure to send us a note when you find your perfect world to live in.

October 3, 2007 at 11:55 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

WalkMan (anonymous) says...

Fine, I'll address the other issues Islander. The SSS owner needs to be fined for his violations. Fire was not his business; it is the business of the fire department. The fire fighters should not have been inside of that building and the command should have known it. That's my core belief; they should not have been inside. Do you know what the expected collapse time of a fast food chain restaurant is when exposed to fire? I doubt you do, and don't expect you to know. Their are those I do expect to know. The answer is 5 minutes. By the time fire units arrive it has usually already exceeded that expectation.

October 4, 2007 at 7:53 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

WalkMan (anonymous) says...

This was a commercial building, no rescue's were required (the one was already done, from the outside I might add), this was not a personal dwelling with personal belongings, it was commercial. Let it go, write it off and don't let it spread to other structures, protect exposures. There was NO reason to be so aggressive on this fire. We will learn from this fire, changes will be made and many of them will be the things that should have been in place before this fire. Not because hindsight is 20/20, but because these standards were already there. You accuse people of thumbing their nose at the City of Charleston but that is EXACTLY what the CFD has done to these regulations. Islander, I've already decided that you are not going to be convinced or change your stance, but at least recognize that there are those that not only have a different opinion but have sound reasoning for those opinions. This is real life. This was predicted!!! It was not predicted that on June 18, 2007 a fire on Sav. Hwy would kill 9 ff's, but it was predicted that the City's tactics are going to kill firefighters before they are willing to change. That prediction came true and my heart is ready to explode with grief b/c we couldn't stop it ahead of time. The CFD "thumbed their nose" at things that very possibly cost these guys their lives, and it's things that would have made the SSS's violations a mute point. That doesn't make the owner free and clear for his violations but it doesn't enter into my equation for the resulting deaths.

October 4, 2007 at 8:10 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

jifdeng3 (anonymous) says...

The point of a defensive operation is to PREVENT the spread of fire to structures that surround a fire building and to dump water onto the fire bilding until it decides to give up. You do not need people inside to accomplish this goal. Islander, I do not understand your point when you say "Yep, that's about all you can do is stand back when a sofa warehouse catches on fire and watch people die and it spread to a gas station then a residential neighborhood" That is exactly what they did AFTER it collapsed and killed nine men. They could have accomplished the same thing by evacuating the building ang going defensive before those men burned. As far as Rusty saying that change is going to be implemented, I challenge you to talk to some city ff's. The guys I have talked to say that its all been paper change, nothing but memos, no training. Its a joke. They are not going to change, not with RT around. You say that we see what we want to see. Sir, there are some of us discussing in here that have an inside view. We work with city guys, we have years of fire service experence, we want to see the city change so no more brothers get killed for absolutley no reason. Those of us that know the atitude toward firefighting that Rusty has outside of the face of the press know that he is not going to change his ways. Its a cherade.

October 4, 2007 at 9:27 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

icbmman (anonymous) says...

Exorcist, it is you that truly has delusions. If anything, all of these other suburban cities have been leaching from the Chas city for DECADES. If Chas didn't exist, do you honestly think the area would be as popular as it is now? Please, go back to your trailer park in the sticks and continue drinking your Schlitz beer.

Reality must be harsh for fanatics.

October 4, 2007 at 10:36 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

canary (anonymous) says...

islanders

Have you ever heard of vertical ventilation? Neither has Chief Rusted!

October 4, 2007 at 4:19 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

juanitagarrett (anonymous) says...

I support Chief Thomas all the way.He has served Charleston well for years. He is qualified and dedicated in
his profession. How many of his critics have walked in his shoesor any fireman's shoes. This was an unusual and
terrible tragedy, we wisk had not happened. No human is to blame. Enough is enough, he has been unmercifully criticised. I think it has more to do with politics than anything else. It's time to move on so Charleston can heal
and learn from this experience. Rusty, I support you. JG

October 5, 2007 at 12:57 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Boosterhose (anonymous) says...

Were they calling for the mayor to retire?
Islander, you should go to the IAFF website and see what the mayor really did at 911. He took all the refuse[deceased firefighter and civilians mixed in with the collapsed structures] to the dump.
When he recovered the gold from the towers he changed the status of operations from recovery to salvage. At this point he quit pulling out remains and toof everything straight to the dump.
He had radios that didn't work correctly and replaced them with radios that didn't work correctly. End result was police were recalled from the building but the firefighters never heard the recall.
He was told not to put the antenna for the cities radio system in the twin towers since it was already a subject of terrorist attacks but he did so anyway.
Guiliani should be sentenced to sifting garbage at the dump collecting the body parts that he so callously sent there.
Oh you don't believe me? Ask a NY firefighter.

October 5, 2007 at 1:08 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

FiddlerCrab7 (anonymous) says...

It is true that some firefighters unfortunately perish in wildfires, but there are still expectations of proficient incident command and firefighting tactics:

http://cms.firehouse.com/content/arti...

October 5, 2007 at 3:47 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

firedude (anonymous) says...

Yankee stuff huh? It's that kind of attitude and back woods thinking that got our nine brothers killed in the first place. Thats the way we've done it for a hundred years and it shows........

October 5, 2007 at 8:26 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

gregf (anonymous) says...

Ok...lets talk reality here. It's not that unbelievable to see that Chief Thomas is getting support from family, friends and citizens. But I would like to ask Richard Davis, one of his main supporters, a question. If while running his real estate company a member of his staff was conducting business and lost his company 9 million dollars would the person be fired? I believe so! If the charleston government is truely running like a business Chief Thomas would be gone due to gross negligence.

And to Juanita Garret I must ask what knowledge you have about firefighting? Chief Thomas and the Charleston FD were YEARS behind in procedures, policies, equipment and tactics. This tragedy was unforseen but so is every fire we respond to. It is the Chiefs' responsibilty, along with his staff,to help minimize injury and death to his members...this was absolutely lacking!

October 5, 2007 at 11:44 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )