Fire chief, mayor subpoenaed

ccfirefighterchick (anonymous) says...

Let the vultures out! Here it comes. These nine men were doing something that they loved doing and they knew the risks they were taking every shift they worked. These families aren't happy with everything they are receiving from the death benefits and the generosity of the country, so they are going to sue and try to get more. No amount of money in the world is going to bring these men back.

October 3, 2007 at 8:25 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

nubianeducator (anonymous) says...

I agree. Firefighters know that they are taking a risk when they take this job on. They never know what to expect in a situation. It is sad that it happened to these nine men. But they knew this was there line of duty before they went in to fight the fire. In fact this could have happened anywhere. Stop having so much to say. We need to stop badgering Rusty Thomas and take the time to support him and help build up our department. Grow up citizens.

October 3, 2007 at 9:27 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

robert8096 (anonymous) says...

This lawsuit will not bring any more information to the table about what went wrong and how it can be avoided in the future.
This is for money hungry relatives and bottom feeding lawyers.

October 3, 2007 at 9:29 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

JH09915 (anonymous) says...

Joe Riley and Rusty Thomas are not not to blame for this tragedy.
It is so apparent that money, again, is the root of all evil.
Assuming that this lawsuit is won by the families of the fallen firefighters, what next?
What else can possibly be done for the families and survivors of this horrible event?
As I have said, Charleston as a community needs to come together and begin the healing process.
Mayor Riley and Chief Thomas have done a wonderful job for the citizens of Charleston, no question about that.
If the mayor should be defeated in November, and Chief Thomas is ousted, what will we have accomplished?
Will that erase what has happened?

October 3, 2007 at 10:15 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

swhfd28 (anonymous) says...

I agree with JH09915. I also noticed that the family wanted to sue the company who had their couches in the show rom. I am suprised that havent tried to sue the company who built the pumpers that supplied the water to the fire. Once again money is the issue...imagine that. If the chief does resign, i feel sorry for the next chief as he has to acccept the job and this matter. The mayor/fd chief cannot be blamed for this. I dont think I heard of any lawsuits with the 6 ff's that died in Worcester. There needs to large settlement of funds to the families..and move on.

October 3, 2007 at 10:31 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Fire_Inspector (anonymous) says...

"This lawsuit will not bring any more information to the table"

Actually it is EXACTLY for that purpose. It will put Rusty and Joe on the RECORD as saying they have NOT HIDDEN information. What do you want to bet that either something new is provided now OR they hide something that is later leaked...

And why should they care if they are providing all the records anyway. Its JUST LIKE the democrats requiring the varied Bush people to swear to tell the truth when testifying before congress. If you aren't going to lie, what are you so afraid of?

October 3, 2007 at 10:33 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

exorcist_pencocky (anonymous) says...

>>> JH09915 - If the mayor should be defeated in November, and Chief Thomas is ousted, what will we have accomplished?
Will that erase what has happened? <<<

When they are defeated and new people make the fire dept a better, safer place to work without the arrogant stupidity that is there now, that will be alot accomplished.

October 3, 2007 at 11:53 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

jjmp03 (anonymous) says...

So, if Mr Calvin Champaign Sr really wants to make a statement, then I strongly suggest that ANY money that he receives be given to a charity in Mr Melvin Champaign's name. That would prove that he was making a statement other than making money for himeslf.

I also wonder if he has gotten rid of any of the furniture in his house that could be a potential fire hazard since he is so against these companies. Absolutely ridiculous!!!

If someone spits on a sidewalk, someone would sue them if they fell b/c of it.

Always out to receive something for NOTHING!! So annoying.

October 3, 2007 at 12:34 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

WalkMan (anonymous) says...

The fund was an outpouring of support from the community to the grief stricken families. These lawsuits are about (or should be about) accountability. Accountability in the face of arrogance and ignorance. Chief Thomas before AND AFTER the fire was quick to inform the public that he did not conform to national standards and had no interest in conforming to national standards. I think his words were along the lines of; "I don't know if our policies follow national standards," and "I wouldn't change anything if I had to do it over." Despite the education being there to obtain, despite the fact that organizations repeatedly approached him about departmental concerns, despite the fact that these national standards were adopted all around him, he turned his nose up at all of it and proudly boasted that "we do it OUR way!! By that, meaning, he did it HIS way. I have no doubt the firefighting community will develop a course based on this fire showing the hazards of this type of arrogance and teaching what not to do. A case study in how this fire went wrong YEARS before the fire. And Mayor Riley's blind devotion to his fire chief and unwillingness to exact change at the administrative level should make him equally as culpable for failing to protect the remaining employees. You want a human being with over 30 years on the job to completely overhaul his attitude towards these national standards before you can even remotely request him to change his department. You don't think he feels these changes are necessary do you? I believe he thinks he's being forced to make these changes and I'm sure he shares his emotional beliefs with the rest of his command staff. Why else would Chief Ricky wish to "make a joke" about rehab stations in the mist of this legal firestorm? National standards dictate that a rehab station should be established at fires, and with all the hoopla about the city not following standards Chief Ricky makes up bumper stickers stating, "rehab is for quitters." This is the attitude of the command staff at the City of Charleston Fire Department starting at the top. Chief Thomas MUST go (whether retired or fired) for long-term beneficial change to occur here. I wish him the best in his future endeavors. He's still alive and has a life to lead and a family to care for, but not as the Chief of a Fire Department.

October 3, 2007 at 1:23 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

jjmp03 (anonymous) says...

The sad part is ... all of the people who are critical wouldn't step foot in a fireman's boots. These lives have been lost and they were very brave in doing what they did. So are the firefighters who did not lose their lives.

That is what is wrong with society today, people ALWAYS judging others when they can't even step up and do the job.

No one is ever happy unless someone is burned at the stake.

October 3, 2007 at 1:57 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

featherbrained (anonymous) says...

From Walkman: "These lawsuits are about (or should be about) accountability. Accountability in the face of arrogance and ignorance."

Working for a contractor, one of our very first discussions concerned the steel roof trusses and the dangers posed by them in a fire of this magnitude.

Our brave Charleston Nine did give their lives doing what they loved to do, but they COULD have been better protected/informed/directed in this event. How many steel truss structures do we have dotted along Savannah Highway alone? Should the same type fire occur in the future what will be done differently to help protect our firefighters? I firmly believe that NINE LIVES did not need to be lost in this fire, although I am not a firefighter. Like many others, though, I spend a lot of time wondering "why" this happened.

People should not be so hasty to judge Mr. Champaign's attempt at filing a lawsuit. Perhaps it is not the money he is after, at all. They (lawsuits) are not always about the money, as Walkman says, they "are about...accountability". It could be that this is what his family needs for closure...accountability. I can respect that, they are trying to move on, and possibly make a difference should this situation (God forbid) occur again.

October 3, 2007 at 2:18 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

jjmp03 (anonymous) says...

I agree regarding accountability wholeheartedly.

If any money is won in this lawsuit, it should be given to a charity in Mr Melvin Champaign's memory.

October 3, 2007 at 2:29 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

rjahopp (anonymous) says...

This article raises more questions than it answers.

Re: "The subpoenas order Riley and Thomas to turn over "key information and documents, :" and ":city attorney Susan Herdina said the subpoenas came as a surprise because Motley Rice requested the same documents in August under the state's Freedom of Information Act and the city was working with the firm to supply the files."

Questions: If the attorneys filed a FIA request for the same documents in August, why wasn't that fact reported by the media? Why are these attorneys asking for the same documents again and why is that now highlighted by the P&O? The documents do not belong to the Mayor or the Chief; why wasn't the City and the CFD subpoenaed?

Jay Lowry, alleged knowledgeable firefighting author / contributor / ex-CFD firefighter, etc., said in a recent public interview that the CFD had the "best firemen the most aggressive and the best in the country doing what their training tells them to do." Is the requested information to be used to support his position and to show that the CFD has well established, firefighting policies and procedures? How can you have the "best firemen : doing what their training tells them to do," many having grown up in the CFD, without having a top rated FD?

Re: "The lawsuit, filed Monday on behalf of firefighter Melvin Champaign's family,:"

Question: Nine firemen lost their lives; why is only one family bringing a case for wrongful death at this time? Do they not trust ATF, SLED, S.C. OSHA, NIOSH, the U.S. Fire Administration, the City's expert panel, etc.? S.C. OSHA only investigated possible safety violations in the work place. Why was this case filed before the formal, detailed investigations have been completed? Are the attorneys more knowledgeable about fire science than the acknowledged industry experts?

Re: Motley Rice attorney Marlon Kimpson: ""We will leave no stone unturned in this investigation, : As more information is gathered, other defendants may be added."

Question: Is this case going off half-cocked? Since there is no current risk to surpassing a statute of limitations for filing a case and since there is ample time to turn over many more stones (e.g. fire department personnel files, firefighting policies and procedures, as well as code and building paperwork for the sofa store), why was the case filed if the plaintiff's attorneys do not have all of the information necessary to support their allegations and to identify all of the potential defendants?

Re: ":a state report that cited the city for workplace safety violations :"

Question: Why does the P&O consistently repeat that the city was "cited : for workplace safety violations :" without acknowledging that S.C. OSHA's report specifically cites the City for "alleged violations." The report does not provide proof to support these "alleged violations" and that the City may appeal.

October 3, 2007 at 3:56 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

MHA (anonymous) says...

Expect more of these, for what ever the reason the suit is opened. There will be more law suits about this fire, and there will be more law suits about other deaths that occur under this city leadership. Hopefully the residents of Charleston will wake up and realize that it's time for a change. If not, the only hope is that the burden of these 9 deaths, which falls squarely on Rusty Thomas' shoulders, will cause him to retire. Maybe even the old mayor himself will realize he's partially to blame for this mess and he'll get out of public office. I doubt it... but we can always dream.

October 3, 2007 at 4:45 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

charleytowngirl (anonymous) says...

MHA.....could not have said it better myself!

October 3, 2007 at 6:21 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Boosterhose (anonymous) says...

Rjahopp,
Most of the firefighters started in other departments and transferred to the CFD. What Jay was saying was the Rank and File have the balls to get the job done despite inferior equipment and poor leadership.
Now, do you need me to define poor leadership? I think we already have a prime example of that.

October 3, 2007 at 7:15 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

bootlicked (anonymous) says...

Rj Hopp and George Gardner are two birds of a feather. All of your breath will be wasted when the smoke clears. It has not even begun.

October 3, 2007 at 8:35 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Reader (anonymous) says...

jjmp03 wrote: "Always out to receive something for NOTHING!! So annoying."

This lawsuit is meant to recover compensation for the children's loss of their father. It is insulting to suggest that that is "NOTHING."

October 3, 2007 at 9:35 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

chiefswife (anonymous) says...

No amount of compensation will bring these firefighters back. I agree with accountability, but is that what this suit is really about? It would really be unfortunate for the outcome of all of this just to be to keep making the victims families wealthier. Greed is such an evil thing and it destroys many people. I know the risks my husband takes each time he answers a call. I also know that if he answers his last call today it will be doing the job that he loves and is what defines him. He can choose to walk away from this profession, but he would never even consider it. I pray the he is never in a situation like the sofa warehouse fire, but if he is I know that God will take care of him, and He will take care of me. There are just some things money cannot buy!

October 4, 2007 at 12:55 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

jjmp03 (anonymous) says...

Reader ~ FYI...They received over $900,000. That isn't including what they get from Life Insurance. I cannot imagine what loss they are going through. I am pretty sure that the CHILDREN are well taken care of.

FYI The immediate family stated that they did not bring this lawsuit to action, it was only one member and HE IS THE COUSIN. Not the children, wife, or parents.

October 4, 2007 at 6:14 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Reader (anonymous) says...

It wouldn't make any difference if he were of no relationship whatsoever. The plaintiff is not suing in his capacity as a cousin; he is suing because he is personal representative of the estate. It just so happens that he is the cousin too.

As the personal representative, he is not going to receive a share of the proceeds from any litigation. Instead, he will receive the money on behalf of the children. I have no idea who the conservator for the children is, but any proceeds will be placed under the strict control of the probate court to make sure that the money is not wasted.

October 4, 2007 at 11:53 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

shooter100 (anonymous) says...

Perhaps there wouldn't be lawsuits if Firefighters were allowed to have things like, Unions, Collective Bargaining, right to protest, Work slowdowns.
Or even a decent weeks salary. Maybe you should care more about these firefighters when they are alive so you won't have to jealously complain about them after they have perished. Get a life!

October 5, 2007 at 10:29 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

bootlicked (anonymous) says...

Why are they suing? Their loved ones are dead. They were killed under the command of an incompetent leader. Nine reasons to sue. Its not over yet. Don't be pissed at the family members or the union or anyone else. Be pissed at the CFD and the city leadership. CHIEFS WIFE if you want to talk about greed look no further than the THOMASES on the CFD. Greed is the people that gave to the Charleston Nine Fund and now are trying to say what the families should do. You all should be ashamed. I hate to tell you Chief's wife your husband doesn't take nearly the risk that the rank and file firemen do. Hopefully when the smoke clears the firemen will have a safer job because of litigation because if it were up to the Chief nothing will change. Remember "he's the bes".

October 7, 2007 at 2 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )