Dist. 2 panel to lead inquiry
Discipline records to be analyzed for any racial disparity
SUMMERVILLE — A new group will analyze Dorchester District 2's suspensions and expulsions and determine if the statistics show any racial disparities.
The school board created the committee at a workshop Monday night. It will be led by school board members Harry Blake and Charlie Stoudenmire and could include other district employees and community members.
Louis Smith, a former Summerville resident now living in Surfside Beach, protested outside a board meeting last month with roughly 20 expelled students and upset parents. He questioned whether the district applied equal discipline standards to white students and black students. He cited figures that appeared to show that the district expelled and suspended a disproportionate number of black students.
National and state statistics, including data from other Lowcountry school districts, found that the racial discipline discrepancy was widespread and did not only apply to Summerville schools.
Smith's concerns prompted The Post and Courier to request detailed discipline data from Dorchester 2, Charleston and Berkeley school districts under the Freedom of Information Act. The newspaper's request asked each district to break down their statistics for each school along racial and socioeconomic lines, and to compare last year's figures with data from the 2001-02 academic year. The newspaper is still waiting for each district's final statistics.
Smith did not attend Monday's meeting, but Assistant Superintendent Barbara ahead and shared some of the district's findings. She only presented board members with expulsion data and did not mention the district's suspension statistics.
At many schools, the expulsion figures showed a decrease in the percentage of black students kicked out of school. One high school, for example, expelled 31 out of 682 black students during the 2001-02 school year, and 22 out of 907 black students last year.
"The only pattern I see is that in our high schools, the numbers are decreasing," Stroble said. "The population is increasing, but the number of youngsters expelled is decreasing over time."
Summerville High, the focus of the group's protest last month, totaled 59 expulsions last year. White students accounted for 37 of the expulsions and black students 22, according to district data.
Even though the numbers may show the problem is less severe than Smith claimed last month, board member Bill Reeves said the board shouldn't hesitate to organize a committee if even one community member perceives that some sort of disparity exists. But he said the data shared by Stroble should prove that the board isn't "playing defense" and instead is being proactive in examining the issue.
"We deal with discipline," Reeves said. "We don't deal with color."
School board Vice Chairwoman Fran Townsend also called for a separate board committee to analyze the district's graduation rate and dropout rate. Many students who struggle with behavior also are at risk academically, she said, and the issues go hand in hand. Townsend asked district officials to examine the interventions and programs in place, and to compare them with other districts.
At the meeting following the workshop, Superintendent Joe Pye unveiled the district's plan to address three weapons found on campuses last week.
Ammunition was discovered at a middle school, while loaded guns were found with students at an elementary school and in a high school parking lot.
Pye said all three cases disturbed the community, especially the situation at the elementary school.
"That really shakes you, if nothing else does," Pye said.
The superintendent praised a meeting held Wednesday with law enforcement officials from various jurisdictions, district administrators, principals and parents. Pye said he hopes the group will meet monthly to further delve into the issue of school safety. "This was a wonderful thing after a bad situation," he said.
Schools will start stressing several strategies discussed at the meeting, Pye said. Officials will better communicate the consequences for bringing weapons to campus; provide ongoing education with morning announcements, newsletters and assemblies; ask parents to talk to their children about school safety; begin strong interventions such as searching students' lockers and backpacks; and ensure all staff members receive training in how to handle emergency situations.
Reach Mindy B. Hagen at mhagen@postandcourier.com or 937-5433.
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Comments
This article has 77 comment(s)
Posted by Inapastlife on November 13, 2007 at 1:04 a.m. (Suggest removal)
40 YEARS DIFFERENCE SCHOOL--OUTCOME
School 1967 vs. School 2007
Scenario: Jack goes quail hunting before school, pulls into school parking lot with shotgun in gun rack.
1967 - Vice principal comes over, looks at Jack's shotgun, goes to his car and gets his own shotgun to show Jack.
2007 - School goes into lockdown, the FBI is called, and Jack is hauled off to jail and never sees his truck or gun again. Counselors are called in to assist traumatized students and teachers.
Scenario: Johnny and Mark get into a fistfight after school.
1967 - Crowd gathers. Mark wins. Johnny and Mark shake hands and end up buddies.
2007 - Police are called; SWAT team arrives and arrests Johnny and Mark. They are charged with assault and both are expelled even though Johnny started it.
Scenario: Jeffrey won't sit still in class, disrupts other students.
1967 - Jeffrey is sent to the principal's office and given a good paddling. Returns to class, sits still and does not disrupt class again.
2007 - Jeffrey is given huge doses of Ritalin. Becomes a zombie. Tested for ADD. School gets extra state funding because Jeffrey has a disability.
Scenario: Billy breaks a window in his neighbor's car and his Dad gives him a whipping with his belt.
1967 - Billy is more careful next time, grows up normal, goes to college, and becomes a successful businessman.
2007 - Billy's dad is arrested for child abuse. Billy is removed to foster care and joins a gang. State psychologist tells Billy's sister that she remembers being abused herself and their dad goes to prison. Billy's mom has an affair with the psychologist.
Scenario: Mark gets a headache and takes some Aspirin to school.
1967 - Mark shares Aspirin with the school principal out on the smoking dock.
2007 - Police are called and Mark is expelled from School for drug violations. His car is searched for drugs and weapons.
Scenario: Johnny takes apart leftover Independence Day firecrackers, puts them in a model airplane paint bottle and blows up an anthill.
1967 - Ants die.
2007 - Homeland Security and the FBI are called and Johnny is charged with domestic terrorism. Teams investigate parents, siblings are removed from the home, computers are confiscated, and Johnny's dad goes on a terror watch list and is never allowed to fly again.
Scenario: Johnny falls during recess and scrapes his knee. His teacher, Mary, finds him crying, and gives him a hug to comfort him.
1967 - Johnny soon feels better and goes back to playing.
2007 - Mary is accused of being a sexual predator and loses her job. She faces three years in a federal prison. Johnny undergoes five years of therapy.
Posted by beespencer on November 13, 2007 at 1:33 a.m. (Suggest removal)
hmmmm...last scenario may not be true because some schools abolished recess...too harsh and too stressful to play outside
Posted by Inapastlife on November 13, 2007 at 1:44 a.m. (Suggest removal)
True So how about this in its place
Scenario: Pedro fails high-school English.
1967 - Pedro goes to summer school, passes English, and goes to college.
2007 - Pedro's cause is taken up by local human rights group. Newspaper articles appear nationally explaining that making English a requirement for graduation is racist. US Civil Liberties Association files class action lawsuit against state school system and Pedro's English teacher. English is banned from core curriculum. Pedro is given his diploma anyway but ends up mowing lawns for a living because he cannot speak English.
Posted by camigreen on November 13, 2007 at 2:37 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I find it interesting that Smith did not show up to the meeting where the district supplied factual numbers of the ratio of expulsions. Where were the protesters? Where is Al and Jesse. I guess he figured that the school district would not settle out of court. Time to move on and play the race card on someone else that might actually cut a check.
Posted by mggoose2000 on November 13, 2007 at 7:11 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Having taught in the Dorchester District #2 school system, I believe I qualify as someone that can testify to the facts; While there are problems with children from all races and ethnic backgrounds, the majority are with the black students. Lack of family structure and discipline at home is a major contributor.
I taught for 5 years and I had more problems with black students misbehaving in class than white or other students.
No prejudice here, folks, just the facts!
Posted by datadiva on November 13, 2007 at 7:26 a.m. (Suggest removal)
mggoose2000,
Let me just throw something out there...
Maybe you were treating the black student differently, expecting the worst and creating a self-fulfilling prophecy.
I don't know, I'm just asking; respectfully, of course.
Posted by ImplantedYankee on November 13, 2007 at 7:54 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Hopefully this new committee will take a more objective approach than this newspaper did -- or those that raised the issue in the first place, for that matter.
Posted by bhippey on November 13, 2007 at 8:45 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Disparity this, disparity that....It all boils down to teaching your children manners, respect, and how to act in public. It is BAD A$$ children ending up expelled, not BLACK children. If the majority of problem starters happens to be black children, then they are the ones getting expelled. It's not some White master plan to expel only black children. Because then the NAACP gets called in and here comes Jesse Jackson. I think Dorchester 2 has more important things to do then single out black children.
Posted by whatelseisthere on November 13, 2007 at 9:08 a.m. (Suggest removal)
What a waste. Another "panel" to investigate something....is it really worth the time, effort, and $$$ to chase after the few problem students who don't want to be there at the expense of the many who do? We need to stop playing parent to these kids. If they cause repeated problems, just cut them lose.
Posted by MHA on November 13, 2007 at 9:44 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Quoted: "School board Vice Chairwoman Fran Townsend also called for a separate board committee to analyze the district's graduation rate and dropout rate. Many students who struggle with behavior also are at risk academically, she said, and the issues go hand in hand."
Struggle with behavior??? Bad behavior is a disease now? Bad kids actually have a battle with themselves trying to decide to act bad or good? Why could she just say "Bad kids have trouble graduating"?
Quoted: ""We deal with discipline," Reeves said. "We don't deal with color.""
Outstanding comment.
Posted by nochasgirl on November 13, 2007 at 9:58 a.m. (Suggest removal)
If Mr Smith is so concerned with the situation, maybe he should volunteer at Summerville High School. Positive actions go so much further than negative actions. If he spends time in the school with the students, he may find all the answers he is looking for. Maybe Mr Smith was just looking for his 10 minutes of fame.
Posted by NS_Highlander on November 13, 2007 at 10:09 a.m. (Suggest removal)
A few days ago I met a nice lady who is white who teaches elementary school in North Charleston that has told me of all the disrespect she gets from Black children. She really believes some black parents are teaching their children to hate and disrespect whites. Can anyone relate?
It is funny how liberals, activists and bad parents ruin public schools and when the good parents start putting their children in private school, THEY ARE ALSO BLAMED for the public system crashing and burning.
Posted by My_50Cents_Worth on November 13, 2007 at 10:31 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I have relatives who are educators at various school in the tri-county area. In fact, one of them is a vice principle at a school in Summerville. I have heard many of their stories and issues, but I’ve never known or heard that there is a protection clause for black students.
If there are principals telling their teachers to treat black children differently in discipline situations or there will be “consequences” -from the “black community” I’m guessing- then those principals need to be exposed and disposed of. Principals lose their schools all the time for committing lesser infractions…that’ s huge!
My stance on this issue is the same no matter how the P& C delivers it. If the bulk of the discipline issues are with black students, the numbers of expulsions and suspension will and should reflect that.
Datadiva, I don’t think that educators intend to be prejudice-for the most part. My relatives have been called racists by both white and black parents. Fact, no one wants to hear bad things about their “angels”. I think teachers go into the classrooms with the greatest intention of educating and helping with the academic and social development of children without regard for race or other prejudices because they care for the welfare of children, they want to see them succeed and they love what they do.
Everyone, it’s time to wake up and stop blaming the educators and support them in their efforts. Poor behavior in school needs to be eradicated; it’s inexcusable. Today there on paper as a statistic, tomorrow they’ll be in the paper as the Lowcountry’s Most Wanted…Then who do we blame?
"Do you have any idea what it's like to be a teacher and to be told by the principle that too many black children are getting in trouble and we will have consequences?"
Parents need to be parents 24/7/365-66 on a leap year and stop treating their children like they are the property of Berkeley/Charleston/Dorchester county schools…they don’t become “the teacher’s problem” when they are at school. When someone points out that there’s a trend and the trend shows the problem is your child, argue all you want, but formulate and execute a plan to make some improvements. We all, in the end, want the success of all children. There is no conspiracy.
Posted by My_50Cents_Worth on November 13, 2007 at 10:42 a.m. (Suggest removal)
" She really believes some black parents are teaching their children to hate and disrespect whites. Can anyone relate?"
Hell no,
I don't think that blacks, collectively, teach their children to disrespect whites any more than whites, teach their children to disrespect blacks. Get real.
Posted by My_50Cents_Worth on November 13, 2007 at 10:49 a.m. (Suggest removal)
"Do you have any idea what it's like to be a teacher and to be told by the principle that too many black children are getting in trouble and we will have consequences?"
This question Early asked should've led my first comment. It ended up towards the end...in case you're confused.
Posted by blondjes on November 13, 2007 at 10:52 a.m. (Suggest removal)
it all starts with the family and if their is not a stable family environment at home the kids will portray that, i don't have kids yet but whenever i do and they act up in class, give a little slap in front of the class so they'll get embarrassed, bet they won't do it again, i went to a private school when i was a kid where they would paddle you if you did something really bad, rarely did a kid get paddled but when they did the whole school was talking about it.
Posted by blondjes on November 13, 2007 at 10:55 a.m. (Suggest removal)
50_cents worth, i have known teachers here who were called every white racist name in the book by their black students, it is happening, did everybody forget that white teacher pretty recently who won a settlement from the school district because she was being verbally and physically abused by her black students?
Posted by bhippey on November 13, 2007 at 11:05 a.m. (Suggest removal)
There are kids of every color taught to hate other races and/or religions. Don't think it isn't happening. Parent's prejudices get pushed onto their children all the time. Either that or the kids pick up on it. It's not only the parent's fault for these children growing up with race issues, alot of times their friends contribute.
Posted by My_50Cents_Worth on November 13, 2007 at 11:05 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Blondjes,
Did you read my post? What are you trying to point out to me? I'm quite aware that it is happening. I think I stated that my relatives who happen to be educators have and do experience it.
As far as teaching a child to dsrespect people based on race I'm sure it happens, but it has not been my experience as the poster so asked.
Any child, in my opinion, who is bold enough to disrespect an adult, will do so without regard for race, size, sex or any other physical traits. It's a lack of discipline and respect issue, not a race issue.
Posted by bhippey on November 13, 2007 at 11:06 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I was taught never to date outside my race. Does this mean I hate every race other than mine? No.
Posted by lvhasnocolor on November 13, 2007 at 11:07 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Will this board replace parenting classes? Can American Parents be responsible for what we teach our children, let them see, let them participate in, let them hear, let them dress like rock stars or hiphop wannabees, let them hang out with and not think the problem starts at home? Does it take a particular race to sucessfully raise a child? Does it take income to raise a "successfull well behave child"? I live in North Charleston and would like to buy a house North Charleston but I am afriad to let my child attend schools where parents are not taking parenting seriously... and/or live in that area. How does the state correct this problem? THEY CAN NOT NOR CAN A BOARD! Please wake up District 2, Charleston County, and all others... DDS please stop patting bad parents on their backs and so we can stop reading about dead and neglected children in the paper and having all these people claiming to be non racist hiding behind screen names in this comment section of the paper...
Posted by Charlie_Speaks on November 13, 2007 at 11:11 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I came to South Carolina from another state in which I taught. Now, I am teaching here, previously in Dorchester 2 and now in Charleston County. NEVER in my previous experience as a teacher was "it" [education or discipline] about the color of someone's skin or their ethnic background. Education should be about attitude (I'm going to take advantage of the opportunity provided) and the fact education is provided freely to the entire country--including illegal immigrants.
As a special education teacher, I have never had as many students and their parents who do not care about their [children's] future. They think when their child reaches high school, they are old enough to make their own decisions and take care of themselves--thus, discipline problems. No 15 year old is mature enough to make the right decisions. Most 18 year olds are not making the right decisions and, for that matter, most 25 year olds are not making wise decisions. It's 2007 and kids don't understand what they do today effects them tomorrow.
Parents are too afraid of DSS to discipline their children. I am often told "while my child is at school, you are their parent." I did NOT give birth to YOUR child! I am their teacher. If I did give birth to your child, he/she would not have the problems they are having.
As a child, I was FEARFUL of disappointing my parents and other adults in the community. I knew what humility was--maybe not the definition--but how humility felt. I was ALWAYS told I had to EARN respect or I would not receive it. My students constantly tell me I "have" to respect them. When a child becomes an adult--acts like an adult, makes adult decisions, completes high school, and COMPLETLY supports themselves (legally), they will EARN my respect.
There is an old saying--"it takes a village to raise a child." I truly agree with the sentiment. However, if a parent is not willing to raise their child, our (the village) hands are tied.
I do not CAUSE a child to get in trouble. Their choices and their actions get them in trouble. The fact the parent will not back the teachers or the school (but would rather point their finger at educators) only adds to the behavior problems the child is experiencing. It is not fair to students who are in the classroom to LEARN, to endure the constant nagging of the teacher toward those students whose parents use school for baby sitting and meal services.
I think this topic has run its course. The bottom line? White or Black, Green, yellow, polka dot, or purple, the apple doesn't fall far. Until parents accept responsibility for their child's actions, nothing will improve. Until educators are willing to stand up and say, "YOU are their parent, so start parenting!" Nothing will improve. We are ALL at fault. We are too politically correct to tell the truth! Get over it! Political correctness will be the downfall of this country! If you don't believe me, look around!
Posted by YankeeBob on November 13, 2007 at 11:19 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I think bhippey hit the nail on the head.
Does Jesse look at the racial mix and say if there's more than 28% blacks getting expelled, there's a racial issue. Is the crime rate for blacks more than 28%? I guess that's due to racial profiling??
Posted by lvhasnocolor on November 13, 2007 at 11:20 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Even if the statistics shows that there are racial disparities then what?????? Well I guess then it is the principal fought your child got in trouble in the first place right! How shallow is that? Will there be a march for BAD CHILDREN or a boycott? See that is why my faith is where it needs to be in GOD ;) Not a corrupt system of robbers and takers!
Posted by theronce on November 13, 2007 at 11:21 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I would not be surprised to learn that the most distinctive number to come out of this review would be a higher than expected percentage of females as opposed to males.
Posted by bhippey on November 13, 2007 at 11:23 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Racial breakdown
From July '05 to June '06, the latest year for which data is available:
25,820
Cases sent to S.C. Juvenile Justice Department
60%
involved black youths
38%
involved white youths
Per county
Berkeley
1,368 cases
50% black
48% white
Charleston
3,369 cases
79% black
20% white
Colleton
273 cases
61% black
38% white
Dorchester
804 cases
53% black
45% white
Atleast we know the asians are behaving...this s*** is NOT tolerated in their homes!
Posted by bhippey on November 13, 2007 at 11:31 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Wait this can be spun: The numbers are so high regarding black children being sent to court because of their race. The only reason they are sent is because South Carolina has a big problem with African Americans. It's a state wide/nation-wide conspiracy....
Posted by juniemoon1957 on November 13, 2007 at 12:02 p.m. (Suggest removal)
bhippey... "There are kids of every color taught to hate other races and/or religions. Don't think it isn't happening. Parent's prejudices get pushed onto their children all the time. Either that or the kids pick up on it. It's not only the parent's fault for these children growing up with race issues, alot of times their friends contribute." And you also stated you were taught not to date outside of your race....Did you just not say last week you despised Mexicans? Are your children growing up with race issues propelled by you?
Posted by bhippey on November 13, 2007 at 12:09 p.m. (Suggest removal)
You again?!?!?! You must not have read all of my posts. Or else you would not have asked this question..Let me go copy and paste for you. Hold on...
Posted by bhippey on November 13, 2007 at 12:11 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Posted on November 10 at 5:43 a.m.
"...and my child will be able to make his own observations on people. He is only 20 months old right now. But his prejudices, if he has any, will be his own. Not mine forced on him."
Posted by hondais1 on November 13, 2007 at 12:24 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Charlie_Speaks -- EXCELLENT post and SO true!!
I am a boomer and grew up with my dad (who grew up getting "beatings") blistering my behind with his belt when I did something wrong. If I back-talked him or my mom, I got smacked in the mouth. It didn't take me long to figure out how to speak with respect to my parents. It also didn't take me long to figure out that the more I was good, the more I could sit comfortably. I went to public schools and got a great education. I NEVER would have dreamed of disrespecting any of my teachers because I knew my dad would beat my a$$ when he got home. I have never been a violent person or ever gone to jail.
Both my children were reared getting spankings whenever necessary and both went to Summerville schools. It was much different from the days I was in school, but both got good educations and NEVER disrespected any of their teachers. If that had ever happened, they would have gotten their a$$e$ cut too! They are responsible, respectful adults now. Neither one has ever hurt another person or has ever done anything that would land them in jail.
Contrary to what Dr. Spock and all the "experts" said, spanking does not make a child violent--it teaches them respect. Respect means that one has some degree of fear. We cannot give our children self-respect. Self-respect is something that must be EARNED. It seems that parents these days tell their children they're special and that they DESERVE respect from others. They are doing these children a great disservice! They not only disrespect others, they expect others to treat them with respect.
IT ALL BEGINS WITH THE PARENTS!!! Of course, many of the parents these days were just children themselves when they had their children and didn't have a clue about how to rear them... SAD!!!! The saddest thing is that it has brought about all these problems and there will never be a solution; it will just fall on other, more responsible people to have to deal with them.
Posted by mggoose2000 on November 13, 2007 at 12:32 p.m. (Suggest removal)
DataDiva,
Respectfully, no, in answer to your question.
Race never was an issue with me.
I can tell you this, I had two students that were black in my classes over a 5 year period that were "certificate" students. That means they would not graduate, but only get a "certificate". No diploma, no GED, just a certificate. I tutored those two students, mentored them and helped them to graduate from High School.
The Administrators and other teachers has given up on them, adding them to the stack of statistics known as "also ran".
Both of those two students are successful, married and have children. They have become productive members of society, paying taxes and mortgages, etc. They don't forget me on my Bday or at Christmas.
One is in Afghanistan, fighting with the Marines. He calls me reguarly and emails me as well; the other is a fine machinist, making more money than I do.
Both students were trouble makers, often serving in school suspensions and Lunch and Break Detention. Both were from single parent homes (no fathers) and had grown to be too much for their mothers to handle.
It took a strong male figure in their lives that belived in them and pushed them to do better for them to see the error of their ways. I'm damned proud of both of them and they deserve it.
The problems associated with single black parent homes is real. You can sugar coat it, ignore it, chalk it up to "racism", put what ever blame on it that you want; it's real and not likely to change until someone has the guts to stop being Politically Correct and stands up and says what is the truth. If blacks want to change their lot in life, then they need to look at what they can do to improve their lives and quit expecting everyone to be sympathetic to their situation.
Life is tough; every working man/woman struggles to keep the wolf from the door. It's no different in my home. My wife and I both work, full time. We have our problems just like all Americans.
That is the American way; it's the way I was raised and the way I raised my children. You get what you earn!
Posted by nochasgirl on November 13, 2007 at 12:52 p.m. (Suggest removal)
When I was in elementary school, we had an electric paddle, so that there was an even amount of "spanking" given to a child. I was so afraid of that machine...the fear was enough to keep me out of the principal's office. I had a friend who grew up during the same time in the upstate. She told me if someone was paddled, it was put over the PA system for everyone in the school to hear. Very few discipline problems!!!!
Posted by hondais1 on November 13, 2007 at 12:53 p.m. (Suggest removal)
AMEN mggoose2000!!!
Many children today have never had to work for or earn anything and believe they are owed whatever they want. Parents need to realize that the more they give their children without the children having to earn it, the more harm they are doing in the long run. Children will appreciate more and take better care of something they had to work for or buy themselves. That is true of material items, knowledge/education and self-respect!
Posted by datadiva on November 13, 2007 at 1:19 p.m. (Suggest removal)
mggoose, Thank you for responding - I was more speaking as devils advocate than anything else because parents of these expelled kids would probably say something like that "You're not treating my child the same"
I think my post was misconstrued and for that I apologize.
I'm right there with you - as far as a strong male influence, it is SO true, I wholeheartedly agree. I really wish there were more male teachers on the elementary school level to 'get to the kids' before they become discipline issues!
oh, and bhippey - are there ANY Asians in the Charleston area? I'm new to the area and dumbfounded of the small percentage of Asian students compared to where I'm from. It's unfortunate.
Posted by bhippey on November 13, 2007 at 1:22 p.m. (Suggest removal)
There were a small amount of Asians at Summerville High when I went there 6 years ago. It is unfortunate. For the most part they are bright and well behaved.
Posted by juniemoon1957 on November 13, 2007 at 1:29 p.m. (Suggest removal)
........bhippey.....I rest my case....the comments below are ones posted by you...even though your son is "Only 20 months old"...do not think for one minute he is not aware of you and your emotions toward people....per bhippey....Juniemoon: please preach to someone else. Your words are falling on deaf ears. I've lived all over the world and have come across many different races of people. I only have a problem with the Mexicans....and my child will be able to make his own observations on people. He is only 20 months old right now. But his prejudices, if he has any,will be his own. Not mine forced on him.
Posted on November 9 at 6:32 p.m.
Blah blah blah...I don't care what anyone has to say. I don't like Mexicans and that's that. I don't have to answer to anyone because I don't like a race of people. And don't name off crap they do because no one else wants to do it. Yay them, more than half of them are here illegally, have 2-4 kids, live off of WIC, Medicaid, and Welfare, cram 15 people to a 2 bedroom apartment...I could go on. They howl and hoot at anything with a vagina, no matter what age. They even do it with their wives, or whatever they call them, standing next to them with their kids in a stroller. RIDICULOUS
Clem: I know. I used to have to drive that way when I worked at the Weapon's Station....This is going to be really offensive, and I'm sorry, but I flat out cannot stand Mexicans.
Why do sooo many people dwell on the past? Focus on the future and all of the hate in the world TODAY! You can't change the past, but you can help work toward a better, less hate filled, future
Posted by gencon1 on November 13, 2007 at 1:29 p.m. (Suggest removal)
What do you mean 40 years?
In 1979 most of the trucks in the Wando High School parking lot had guns in the rear window gun racks during hunting season. People respected each other and respected life much more than now. The guns aren't the problem. It's the degradation of our society.
In the 1800's many children carried guns to school.
Posted by My_50Cents_Worth on November 13, 2007 at 1:32 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Posted by mggoose2000 on November 13, 2007 at 12:32 p.m. (Suggest removal)
"The problems associated with single black parent homes is real. You can sugar coat it, ignore it, chalk it up to "racism", put what ever blame on it that you want; it's real and not likely to change until someone has the guts to stop being Politically Correct and stands up and says what is the truth. If blacks want to change their lot in life, then they need to look at what they can do to improve their lives and quit expecting everyone to be sympathetic to their situation."
Mggoose,
I would like clarification before I get started. Are you talking about black people in general? That was a verrrry blanket statement. FYI, there are black children from "single-parent" homes who are raised by not only their parent, but their father uncles, grandfathers, cousins and other positive male figures.
For the record, there are many, myself included, who are doing very well and have NO ISSUES with where they've ended up in life.
My parents weren’t together, but they co-parented. I had many peers, black and white who had both parents in the home and only one parent was actively involved. I credit many people-black, white, male and female- who were strategically placed in my life -and may not have even known how influential they were in my life…until much later when I told them.
Your statement reads like all black people from single parent homes have issues, are failures...unless of course someone like you comes along and saves them from themselves, and need to be re-directed or they're doomed.
Agree with you everyone has to work hard for what they want and work even harder to keep it.
Please let me know if I'm reading this correctly.
Posted by juniemoon1957 on November 13, 2007 at 1:33 p.m. (Suggest removal)
........per bhippey...."We are all adults here, I'm guessing. Why can't we start acting like it? Every race has their own stereotypes."
Posted by bhippey on November 13, 2007 at 1:39 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Junie: What is your point?? I don't like Mexicans. Is that bothering you? I'm sure alot of what you believe in or don't care for would bother me....Would I attack you about it? No. I don't go around having anti-mexican meetings or posting kill all mexicans signs. I don't like them therefore I don't hang around them or do business with them. It's not a threatening hatred of them. Just a strong dislike. I don't use ethnic slurs to describe them. The only negative things I have to say about them are listed in my posts above. My husband and I refrain from cussing and such in front of our child. You should worry about raising your own children (if you have any), and less about mine. I'm glad that you think you are sooo perfect and so much better than me. I'm sure you have your little prejudices that you choose to keep to yourself. And that's fine. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions of others. It's when it results in violence that's the problem.
"Why do sooo many people dwell on the past? Focus on the future and all of the hate in the world TODAY! You can't change the past, but you can help work toward a better, less hate filled, future."
That is geared towards the murders and/or beatings that happen to people DUE TO their skin color. I would never resort to violence because I disliked someone.
Posted by bhippey on November 13, 2007 at 1:40 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Junie: still waiting on what you're trying to accomplish here....
Posted by yeahright on November 13, 2007 at 1:55 p.m. (Suggest removal)
A child raised in a racist home is bound to be predisposed to the same prejudices. They don't miss a thing.
Posted by bhippey on November 13, 2007 at 2:01 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Oh please. I know plenty of people that are racist and their children aren't. My husband's family is extremely racist. They told him never to bring a black girl home. He dated two black woman. One for almost 2 years. He didn't care what their prejudices were. He made his own decisions and choices. It's when the child has no choice. When racism is forced upon them by their parents.
Posted by yeahright on November 13, 2007 at 2:10 p.m. (Suggest removal)
So when your child brings "Carlos" home to play after school you're going to treat him the same as you would "Trevor"? YEAHRIGHT!
Posted by lovedogs on November 13, 2007 at 2:11 p.m. (Suggest removal)
PrinciPAL= The principal of the school is our pal (friend). Go figure, but a good way to remember how to spell it. For some who are not spelling the word correctly;)
Posted by juniemoon1957 on November 13, 2007 at 2:13 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Ahhh...not trying to accomplish anything. I could care less who you like or "despise". I despise no one. Not even you. The Mexicans I have dealt with have all been very nice and appreciative, very polite. I am a person who chooses my battles carefully. Being prejudice is not one of them. I say what I mean and mean what I say. I rarely say one thing and mean another, or do another. I was taught to treat people with kindness, decency and respect. Tolerance. Human grace. I do not think I am better than anyone as you stated above, or perfect, far from it. You are more than free to raise your child as you see fit, I never stated otherwise. Just stated that children are very perceptive individuals, even at 20 months, they can pick up on non-verbal language. My sister adopted at birth a Native American child, male. Another Native American can recognize that he is "Indian", but very few white people can see it. They think he is Mexican. His Dad is a full Cheyene and mother a Navajo. He was born on the "Indian Reservation" in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma. The "real Americans". But anyway, continue with your posts.
Posted by bhippey on November 13, 2007 at 2:15 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Yeahright: Children are innocent. I don't have prejudices against children.
Posted by lovedogs on November 13, 2007 at 2:22 p.m. (Suggest removal)
All of you angry people should volunteer in a school near you. Then argue about what you have learned and who you should blame. I refuse to teach anymore this year because of certain children ruining the opportunities for the ones who want it.
Posted by juniemoon1957 on November 13, 2007 at 2:25 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Lovedog......no anger here. Life is way to short to be angry.
Posted by My_50Cents_Worth on November 13, 2007 at 2:26 p.m. (Suggest removal)
...Bhippey does have a great point.
I've met many people throughout my career who were taught to be racists, but abandoned that part of their upbringing and made friends with, dated and in some cases married people from races other than their own.
I feel really naive, I never realized how poor race relations were in Charleston. Growing up on Johns Island many many years ago that was not an issue. We only took issue with folks who had poor work ethics, and even then the matriarchs and patriarchs of the community quickly made "real men and women" out of them.
My life parallels yours, Juniemoon. In my community, blacks and whites lived close together and genuinely respected, trusted and cared for each other and each other's children.
Posted by yeahright on November 13, 2007 at 2:32 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I'm really not trying to debate BHippey on this issue. Her comments are consistent. My problem is that if she had said "I just don't like white people", or "black people", these boards would be lit up like Christmas. I guess people only get offended by racists comments when it's their race being discriminated against, and apparently there are no latinos to voice their displeasure on these boards.
Posted by lovedogs on November 13, 2007 at 2:35 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I have also quit after 10 years because I fear for the safty of the other children, staff and myself. I will not put my name to a district that will not remove a dangerous child due to their race or disability. That in itself discriminates against all of us. Tax paying or not.
Peace to all. I'll take my dogs.
Posted by lovedogs on November 13, 2007 at 2:49 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Oops! Safety. Sp. error.
Posted by datadiva on November 13, 2007 at 2:56 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I am rather upset about someone saying that they dislike "Mexicans" but honestly what can I do. I can't change anyones mind.
I am both white and black, grew up with a Caucasian mother and a stepfather who repeatedly used derogatory words for blacks and Hispanics. (My biological father was in the picture later in my life)
Anyway... I had a distorted view to begin with and even had my own prejudices about both of these races because of what I heard growing up. AND, I was a minority myself - my skin color is similar to that of Halle Berry.
Ultimately I wound up marrying someone who is Hispanic (not Mexican) but Puerto Rican, Guatemalan and Italian. I did think though that I would NEVER marry someone other than a Caucasian, go figure, huh?
Do I feel bad when we go out and I constantly feel like I have to prove myself; prove that I'm educated and can put together a coherent sentence? Yes, it is frustrating but what can be done. We chose to move here and if we end up not liking it, we can easily go back to Boston where if someone doesn't like me for what I look like, I'd never know it because racism exists everywhere - it just happens to be voiced more here in the South. (in my opinion)
My point is, there are going to be people that dislike others and there's not one thing we can do about it. I alone am not going to change someones opinion, nor do I want to.
All I can do is raise my children with values and morals and continue to hold them to a higher standard. I can teach them to speak articulately (which is ANOTHER thing that I see a lot of, that irks me to tears)
So, I have to ensure my kids are doing the best that they can, and they are truly excelling at Dorchester School District - that's all I can do. It's not my place to judge the bad kids, until of course, they do something that directly affects my child... you know?
Posted by My_50Cents_Worth on November 13, 2007 at 3:05 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Yeahright,
The board is pretty lit up. There are over 50 comments.
Bhippey's statement about her dislike of Mexicans was greatly debated last week, if I recall correctly. Many people expressed offense. I, personally, feel no need to engage Bhippey about the statement because #1 her mind is made up, #2 Juniemoon has tried talking to her and #3 for me, there is a much bigger issue to discuss than Bhippey's dislike of Mexicans.
I know exactly what you mean about people expecting the same respect for another race that they would demand/expect for their own, Yeahright.
Welcome to the Lowcountry, Datadiva!
Have a great day Charleston.
Posted by bhippey on November 13, 2007 at 4:33 p.m. (Suggest removal)
which one of you reported me to the management??? that's really funny. thanks for the spanking....lol
Posted by My_50Cents_Worth on November 13, 2007 at 4:40 p.m. (Suggest removal)
What are you talking about, Bhippey? None of your comments were deleted.
Anyway, it was not me!
Posted by bhippey on November 13, 2007 at 4:49 p.m. (Suggest removal)
No, they're all here. But I got an email from the P&C Online Director stating that I always turn the topic to race, even if the article is nothing about race, and if they get one more report they will take away my posting priveledges....WTF. I don't start the race conversations. And how me telling a girl who used to f word while talking to me, to watch her mouth, is derogatory. Oh well.
Posted by My_50Cents_Worth on November 13, 2007 at 5:19 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Wow!!!! I didn't realize it'll go that far...An email from the Director? I can make a few recommendations for privilege revocations. :-)
Whether you like hearing it or not, your comment about Mexicans was over the top. If you feel that way, then do. But, there are just some things that are not necessary to share with the world. I hope you don't lose your privileges, but if you continue to make those kinds of comments you'll deserve it. I can guarantee you, that was the proverbial "nail in your coffin."
The person who reported you should've "chatted" it out with you...Then again, I guess it was easier to report you than to get into an online war. I guess I just like a good debate.
You'll be okay either way. Take a break and feed the ducks. :-)
Posted by yeahright on November 13, 2007 at 5:30 p.m. (Suggest removal)
wasn't me. While I obviously don't agree with your comments, I've seen much worse.
Posted by bhippey on November 13, 2007 at 5:33 p.m. (Suggest removal)
My husband and I took our son to feed bread to the ducks. It's sad though. There used to be 11 babies, and now there are just 7....
Posted by juniemoon1957 on November 13, 2007 at 5:49 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Well, 50_Cents...I am thank-ful everyday that I was taught not to treat people different because of thier skin color/nationality. It is just not fair. And even more thank-ful I was taught not to hate. Sure, there are things I do not like but when it gets down to living and breathing...in the whole scope of things, does it really matter? I can respect anyone's opinion, we can all agree to disagree. Realize we have differences and get along. However, some posts here are just stewing with anger, and some get riled when you do not think like they do. And some, I just feel want to argue. And no, I have not reported anyone to the booger man. SO...not my style. Somethings are not worth saying. It is human grace that allows us to keep some thoughts to ourselves. Some thoughts better not shared at all. I do have three pet peeves, cruelity to old people, children, animals. My three battles.
Posted by bhippey on November 13, 2007 at 6:17 p.m. (Suggest removal)
All hail Mother Junie. She does no wrong. *bows*
Posted by Hey_U_Guys on November 13, 2007 at 6:21 p.m. (Suggest removal)
People have a right to say what they want. Some people just don't hold back. That's how they are. Others, like JunieMoon1957, obviously do care what people think.
Posted by juniemoon1957 on November 13, 2007 at 6:24 p.m. (Suggest removal)
like I said...human grace.....
Posted by Hey_U_Guys on November 13, 2007 at 6:28 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Do you two know eachother??
Posted by juniemoon1957 on November 13, 2007 at 7:11 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Hey_U_Guys...I hope you meant to say...that I do not care what people say...because...I do and I don't......as I stated...I choose my battles carefully. bhippey is not one of them. And no, I do not know bhippey, but if on the occasion I did get to meet her, I would shake her hand and I would treat her with kindness, decency and respect, just like I was taught and just like I practice everyday.
Posted by Hey_U_Guys on November 13, 2007 at 7:15 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I meant that you care what people think about what you say. Meaning you obviously don't go around and spout off hatred towards others...
Posted by Hey_U_Guys on November 13, 2007 at 7:23 p.m. (Suggest removal)
About the article: I feel as though black individuals feel alienated by the educational system because the numbers are what they are. Have they posted the statistics for the other races of children being suspended and expelled?? I'd like to see those so that we can compare. If 10 out of 15 children being expelled were white and the administrators were black, whit people would think something was going on. It's always about race. Typically it's more black vs. white and vice versa. I don't recall reading any article about White kids feeling ostricized by Asians because they get better grades, if that's even true. I've noticed that the post and courier tends to only print half of the story. It's always "to be continued" with this paper. What gives? Is only half the story known when the paper is ready to go to press?? Why report at all if it's not the whole story?
Posted by juniemoon1957 on November 13, 2007 at 7:23 p.m. (Suggest removal)
hey_u_guys.....I see what you mean....and you are correct.
Posted by datadiva on November 13, 2007 at 7:53 p.m. (Suggest removal)
because it's not actual reporting Hey_u_guys... it looks more like 'stirring the pot' to me...
Sad and irresponsible considering this is the 'best' paper the area has to offer.
So, why do I read it? Good question.
Posted by SomeTruthPlease on November 13, 2007 at 9:23 p.m. (Suggest removal)
There happens to be a book at each and every school that outlines what are to be considered offenses and how those offenses are dealt with. I believe these "handbooks" also outline what repeat offenses will deserve what punishments. My opinion, and this is just MY opinion, is that people of any color that decide that race has become an issue, needs to make an outline of their children's offenses, look up the punishments for those offenses as spelled fairly clearly in the student handbook for that school, and if there is a discrepancy, take it up with the Principal, and the board if there is no other resolution. When the numbers are so varied, I'm sorry, but I believe that it is a true reflection of children's behavior in the schools. My 21 year old son went to Summerville Schools. He had wonderful teachers, for the most part. I absolutely despise most of the administration, however. I volunteered a LOT in his classrooms, and never, ever, did I see a teacher show any more tolerance to one student than to another. The teachers that my son had in his later years, I still communicate with today, and they still refer to all of those kids as "my kids". No singling out one child over another due to race. I think that what has happened, is that these kids are in "cliques", and most of those "cliques" couldn't care LESS about education. They only attend because it's seven hours of socializing, and it keeps Lessie Penn off their butts on Thursdays every week at the Dorchester County Courthouse on Truancy charges. Four out of ten kids are there for an education...the other six are there for other reasons, but personal betterment isn't one of them.
Posted by eyfigueroa on November 14, 2007 at 1:04 p.m. (Suggest removal)
"I guess people only get offended by racists comments when it's their race being discriminated against, and apparently there are no latinos to voice their displeasure on these boards."
yeahrigh: I'M HERE!!!!!!!! i'm HIGHLY OFFENDED and i'm not MEXICAN. bhippey doesn't discriminate against children but she won't Carlos' mami come into her house though. how can you hate an entire race yet be okay with a child of that race?
my personal note to bhippey:
good afternoon:
sometimes i go back into the archive logs to read individual's earlier posts on different articles. i did that for you because i've been a bit confused as to how on occasion you could deliver such cogent opinions on various subject matters yet write such assinine remarks like "i hate mexicans". As i've stated before you certainly have a divine and constitutional right to have opinions different from others and i'm the last individual that would want that right infringed upon. that's why i'm not in favor of Post & Courier censoring your posts and it's my goal to inform the online editors of the P&C of that fact. i certainly hope that the P&C allow you to continue posting on this site. I find your inherent ignorance, bigotry and flat out racism fascinating and entertaining. No, you don't ALWAYS steer the conversation towards race, but you certainly jump on that bandwagon quite often. I read where you posted that your child will form his own prejudices on his own because you and your husband don't curse in front of him. but if you are bold enough to publish your biogtry and racism on such a public forum such as this, then it is almost impossible for me to believe that you won't teach that to your son. he will grow up knowing that his father dislike ALL blacks (your words) because of his dealings with them. (of course you were quick to tell the world he dated 2 black women back in the day. i guess they were good enough to piss off his parents but not good enough to respect now, sorry, i digress). your child will also learn to hate mexicans because you find them lazy baby making welfare queens/kings. your child will also learn that it is okay to despise and indict entire races & ethnicities based on the behaviors of a certain percentage. you will teach him by not only your words but by your actions and responses to those unlike yourself. he will learn to think of himself as superior to others and will be unable to enjoy the true benefits of a life filled with friendships, relationships with those who look different from him.
again, i hope the P&C continue letting you post. i see you as the poster child of ignorance and the rallying point for all of us out there who are working diligently to teach subsequent generations that thinking like you only cheats them out of a fulfilling life.
i look forward to "seeing" you online.
E.Y. Figueroa
Posted by bhippey on November 15, 2007 at 9:01 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Here's the second email, she didn't post:
Hello, The user eyfigueroa sent the following message to you via www.charleston.net: ============================== i stand corrected. i went back to your posts and i sent messages to both you and to blondjes. it was blondjes that stated her husband despised blacks. i apologize for attributing that to your spouse. as to the rest of my letter i do stand by everything i wrote. also, i thought it was disingenuous for the Post 'n Courier to chastise you for speaking your mind. though they certainly have the right to moderate their own site, i would think a newspaper would be the last entity to squash free speech. i wrote to the online moderators on your and others' behalf.
Posted by My_50Cents_Worth on November 15, 2007 at 9:36 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Hmmmmmmm, interesting!
Posted by eyfigueroa on November 16, 2007 at 3:02 p.m. (Suggest removal)
bhippey: i never tried to hide that i sent you a second email, i was simply busy.
i made a mistake simple as that. i still stand by what i wrote about your obvious bigotry and elitism. i enjoy reading your posts and i certainly hope that the p&c continue to let you and those who think like you spread your ideals to the world!
i enjoy the entertainment.