Your suggestions for Patriots Point
We asked you what should be done with the ships at Patriots Point.
There's still time to weigh in. We're accepting answers through the close of business Monday.
In the meantime, here are some of your responses, by e-mail and voicemail. (Editor's note: E-mail addresses, street addresses and phone numbers, when provided, have been removed.)
Subject: Message via the Web site
From: regreenie
I have an idea on the boat problem. How about building some pedestals and/or a cradle under water for each ship to sit on. Kind of like when you buy a model ship that sits on pedestals. If the bottom of the boats are to fragile, beams can be run under the deck, supported by the pedestals from below, to let the ship hang from.
Subject: Suggestion for Raising Money for Patriots Point Ships
From Gerald Teaster
There is one untouched resource in saving the ships at Patriots Point. That is the school children of South Carolina or even other states. What could be more appropriate -- they are the ultimate reason the ships are being preserved. These ships are their heritage. There is a clear, proven mechanism of how this may be done. During WWII, war savings stamps were sold by the US government so that school children could make a contribution to the war effort. These stamps sold for a dime or a quarter and were kept in a stamp book that held $18.75 worth of stamps. When the book was full, it could be turned in and redeemed for a $25 war bond.
Use the same idea. Work with the schools, churches, Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts and other civic groups to sell the stamps and books. Each of the Patriots Point ships could have its own stamp and children could have a favorite. Work with businesses, all over the state, so that full stamp books could be redeemed for movie tickets, sporting event tickets, CD's, pizzas, etc.
Enlist veterans to volunteer to visit the schools, tell their stories, and promote the stamps. During WWII, War Bond drives were held with celebrity concerts and appearances and the price of admission was the purchase of a War Bond. Solicit popular bands, etc. to give concerts and appearances where the admission could be a certain number of stamp books.
This would be an ambitious project and require lots of volunteers and administrative effort. I do not think that, by itself, it could raise all the necessary funds but could make a big dent in the amount needed. It would also have the benefit of widely publicizing the plight of the ships to the people of South Carolina.
Personally, I think that sinking the ships would be a literal sin. It would be be like bull dozing what is left of Fort Sumter.
Gerald Teaster, PE
Summerville, SC
Subject: Re: Yorktown
Ken...
I am a third generation American...my father's father fought in WWI, my father fought in WWII navy against Japan...I enlisted in the USAF-NATO during the Viet Nam conflict...it is sad that so many people want to discard these ships...I have followed your articles on this issue and 64 million dollars even in a good economy is a large some of money...I doubt that visitor's or donation's will cover that cost...
Given the task of what to do...If the efforts are to keep them maybe there could be a way to build a base or stand upon which these ships could be placed above the water at high tide...one could use coffer dam's at select points of the ship...place concrete piers up to the hull so the ship would rest on the concrete stand...when high tide was in the hull would still be out of the water to prevent damage...there shouldn't be much damage to the eco system since the Big Bridge has concrete piers in the water...the question would be what is the cost for this type of project? I would guess with the right guy in charge one could find several veteran run construction companies that might be interested in pulling together resources to make this happen...it would take efforts going in several directions at once to pull in monies as well as services to start a project such as this...
Either way there will be millions of dollars spent to resolve the problem...without having the budgets for review how can anyone make a decision of trying to keep the ships or letting them go...
Just a thought...
Stan Marcinkowski
Daniel Island, SC
Subject: The Point IS Patriotism
I'm moving into the Mt. Pleasant area after running small businesses in Tennessee. I love this place.
The reason we lose interest in Patriots Point is because we're moving farther from the history. Create a plan that joins current issues and sell the NOW first. Mcdonald's has been serving the same burger for years...Because It's GOOD! Your presentation is not pumped. You put the previous alligator guy's attitude in there, and everybody will want to watch. Stick to the real guns. Entertainment, History, and Education (in that order if you want revenue). Create a show for the history channel and you get international recognition. Combine stories of soldiers, have cadet training, create a children's documentary, put in town meetings, have extraordinary speakers and sell the seats, do telemarketing "Support the Point" and give away tickets at local restaurants and hotels during the tourist season.
If we can make a reality show that tears down old houses, surely we can sell Real History! (we just have to make it exciting).
You push enough, you succeed...Get the lazy out of the performance, and stop watching the news! Revenues grow from performance, not from the news. As for the cost of repair, what's the only thing that salt water can't destroy?....glass (sand). If you find that humorous, you haven't seen what they can do with flexible fiber optics. Need help, give me a buzz. Good luck, it's like the extinction of the Paleated woodpecker...We can talk about it, but it's not the same as actually seeing the bird. Don't sink our history!!!!
Charlie Bobo
Subject: Preserving the Yorktown and other vessels
From: Buddy Thompson
Could the same process that is being used to save the Morris Island Lighthouse be used? The Dredge material from the harbor could be used as the fill material.
George Thompson
Mt. Pleasant, SC
Subject: Re: Alternative Uses for Patriots Pt. Ships
Josh Gregory wrote:
Has anyone consulted the school board about converting these old boats into classrooms?
That was more of a tongue-in-cheek suggestion, though I wouldn't put it past the school board. I suppose that submarine wouldn't be too different from those trailers they use anyway.
Josh Gregory
Subject: Patriots Point Ideas
From: John Balog
Thanks for the opportunity to input on the problem. Obviously, any solution will have to overcome the justifiable pride people have for these ships. So, we must balance fiscal realities with patriotic pride. The authority is considering ways to raise enough money to rescue the ships. If this is not possible, alternative solutions must be faced.
I would suggest turning the ships into a memorial reef off Charleston so that tour boats might visit the area, divers might explore the ships, and fish would be attracted to this man made reef. If possible, a buoy can mark the memorial reef and the site depth might permit actual viewing from the surface.
The placement of the vessels should be done with as much ceremony as possible and involve former crew members. A video might be made to raise funds for whatever would occupy the former site. The area near the Vietnam exhibit might have a building to house the Medal of Honor museum. Perhaps this could be combined with the war museum exhibit now located near the aquarium. Together, they would be an outstanding way to proudly display our military heritage. As part of this complex, I would recommend including a modest theater to show "specials" about the exhibits and our military history. Some parts of the ships might also be displayed outside, such as deck guns, and a few planes.
John L. Balog
Goose Creek, SC
Subject: The Laffey
From: Wilfred Spoon
Dear Ken, I am a painter living in Mt. Pleasant. I read your article on Sunday about the vessels at Patriots Point and due to an affinity that I have for the Laffey I have planned to paint a portrait of the Ship That Wouldn't Die. I would like to donate the painting to the Save the Laffey Fund. I was hoping you might have some idea of who to contact for my donation. I am just beginning the painting. If you have time take a look at my Web site at wilfredspoon.com. I think it would be a shame for our community to lose any of these ships.
Thanks,
Wilfred Spoon
Subject: Yorktown idea
From: Hal Rose
Ken,
I appreciate your column. Honest opinions are hard to find in the media these days.
The idea I have may be costly, but may help pay for itself too. If concrete was poured in around the ships in a way that they actually sat in the concrete just as they do the water. There would be considerably less salt water right up against the hull. The concrete bed could be high enough above the high tide level that it could serve as a boardwalk and/or a party/reception venue. Who wouldn't find it fascinating to walk up to the hull of an aircraft carrier and look up at the rest of the massive ship?
I know concrete is expensive and the project would probably involve some dredging which may be difficult at best depending on the current damage to the hulls.
Thank you for the opportunity to submit my idea for saving these great ships.
Hal Rose
N. Charleston
Subject: Patriots Point
Just a short comment on your article about the ships at Patriots Point.
I to believe that there is a time and place and a beginning and end for everything.
Unfortunately the children in school are not taught about WWII any more - they just have to learn about what is going to be on the MCAS test and everything else is left up to happenchance. Therefore the ships that are on display over there are really nothing to them unless they are taught about the history by their parents.
I think that they should do a complete evaluation of all the ships and perhaps save 1 or 2 of them and sink the rest. I definitely think that the Yorktown should be saved if at all possible just because it is the biggest. If they got rid of the rest of them and concentrated on the smaller amount perhaps they would have enough money to get a ship or two that is in mothballs that would have to do with the Korean War or VietNam. The children are not learning about that either so it would give them a chance to learn.
It is a wonderful place over there and I would hate to see the whole thing go down the drain because no one can make some hard decisions. There is no extra money now and there will not be for a long while so lets stop playing politics and try to save some of it.
Penny Cocking
Subject: Ships at Patriots Point
From: Lighthart, John M Jr Civ USAF AMC 437 CES/CEOHP
Once some environmental issues are addressed; why can't all of these vessels be surrounded with weather proof coffer dams and all of them encased in one large area with concrete , or some other material. It may not have the same curb appeal, but it could be a viable solution with significantly less cost.
John Lighthart Jr
James Island, SC
Subject: Ships at Patriot Point
From: Chris Sowers
I think that the money generated by the Yorktown in a one year timeframe does not cover the bill to fix it, but the lack of that money would be a tremendous drain on the Charleston economy.
When WWII Vets are diminishing more and more every day, I think that this ship serves as a constant reminder of their sacrifice for this country. We should absolutely spend any and all funds to make sure that their devotion to this country is passed on to every single man, woman and child who ever steps aboard the Yorktown.
Chris Sowers
Product Specialist
Sawgrass Technologies
Subject: Yorktown
Ken:
As a retired Naval Officer and student of Naval History, I have to admit your idea has some merit.
In 2002, we visited the USS Missouri (BB63) in Hawaii, which is privately funded and managed and appeared to be in good condition.
I'm not sure the circumstances are the same, but history dictates that ship is worth saving. There are no easy answers.
Best regards, John Navarre
Subject: Patriots Point Ships
Ken,
The solution to the sinking problem is to pump sand into the area. The ships do not need to float at this point in time. The river probably could use a little cleaning any way.
Always enjoy your column. Looks like you are having fun.
Paul Hund
Subject: Hurray for you!
Thanks for the having the guts to say what needed to be said about the Yorktown! Especially in today's economy, we don't need to pour money into a rusting hulk. It will be interesting to see what response you get (my bet is on the sentimentalists!)
Jane O.
Subject: RE: Sink the Yorktown
Ken,
My wife has a better idea - sink the Hunley and use the money wasted on it to fix the Yorktown. Personally, I like that idea.
Regards,
Randy (and Yvette) Guy
Summerville
Subject: Patriots Point ships
From: Swing, Jane E.
Great idea to take the ships and sink them. Charleston has an avid fisherman and SCUBA diver population. These mighty ships could be added to our artificial reefs offshore. The USS Oriskany (an almost twin of the USS Yorktown) has recently been sunk in the Gulf Sea off the FL/AL shore as part of an artificial reef. Many other war ships have been given an opportunity to continue to serve not as a mighty carrier or cargo ships, but as a home to myriad marine lives.
The cost to get these ships to the bottom of the sea is considerable, but the USS Vandenburg sunk this past week near Key West is expected to generate 8 million dollars in tourist revenue.
Jane Swing
Subject: Sinking the ships
From: David Peterson
Ken,
A good, sensible column. People don't realize that steel ships and a highly corrosive medium -- and that's what seawater is -- are highly incompatible and are not intended to last more than their design lifespan, say 30 years. Yes, you could fabricate them from stainless steel alloy 316, but that would be prohibitively expensive, and not a perfect answer to boot. Wooden boats are more easily preserved; they can be worked on piecemeal, etc. There's a size limit, though. The large ones still extant (as museum pieces) are less than 300' long. I suspect though that your column will just generate a slew of comments like Dick Trammell's -- unheedful of future problems and expenses. It's really a logical fallacy: ig noratio elen chi; he simply isn't addressing your comments.
Cheers,
David D. Peterson
Port Royal SC
Subject: Patriots Point Dilemma
With all due respects to all the people who find deep emotions stirring when the Laffey, the Clagmore, and the Ingham are mentioned or seen, they are three vessels that do not present any form of real visitor interaction as does the Yorktown--walking down quiet corridors and looking at old fixtures ( besides the Laffey's "big guns"), does not make for an exciting tour; difficult decisions must be made about their future that should include their removal from the site. The stories of these three vessels can be shown in visually stunning reality exhibits on the Yorktown in a manner similar to the Medal of Honor Museum for a lot less money than restoring and maintaining them; the Yorktown IS Patriots Point and if we have limited funds for preservation, it is the Yorktown that should be given absolute priority. Those veterans, who bring strong emotions to the three vessels, should be given important roles in developing the wonderful exhibits that can be developed on the Yorktown to document the vessels' place in naval history.
Seymour Rosenthal
Mt. Pleasant
Subject: The biggest Yorktown Question(s) -unasked in Charleston
From: S and W Hardwicke
1. When the hull fails, say due to rust, what will be done with the ship, and who will be responsible for the fix?
Is the Yorktown authority funded/prepared/insured in any way against these costs?
Who will get stuck with the bill? City of Chas?, Mt Pleasant? Chas County? State? Federal?
2. And are they aware they might get "stuck" with the cost of fixing it, including maybe hauling it out to sea? Sounds easy to take it to sea, but it could sink in the ship channel, plus you might have to haul it a long way offshore to sink it deep enough.
Wayne Hardwicke
Mt. Pleasant
Subject: Patriots Point
From: Jon Liles
Ken, I wonder if anyone has considered talking with the folks in charge of the dozens of other naval museums across our country?
This should sound too obvious but I know of many times that our powers that be have tried to reinvent the wheel when a simple visit or phone call could have unleashed loads of information.
Jon P. Liles
Edisto Island, SC
Subject: Sink the Yorktown? You must be kidding!
From: Kim Miller
Hi Ken,
While I have to say that I have enjoyed your columns for years (except for a few random attacks you've made on Lou Holtz), I have to respectfully disagree with your Sunday article regarding the Yorktown and the other WWII era ships docked at Patriot's Point.
While I can see your point about the expense that is required to keep the "Fighting Lady" and her berthmates afloat, I can also remember a trip I took to Patriot's Point with my father several years ago. My dad is a member of that "Greatest Generation" and served aboard the destroyer/seaplane tender Orca, which was very similar in design to the Laffey at Patriot's Point.
Walking through that ship with my father, for the first time, I truly saw the young man from Hendersonville, SC, who was 17 when Pearl Harbor was attacked, and was actually afraid that the war might be over before he had a chance to serve his country. He showed me bunks just like the ones he had to fold his 6'2" frame into (no easy task - those things were TINY!), and bulkheads just like the ones he banged his head on before he learned to duck while running through the tight confines of the destroyer. His proudest moment was showing me the Laffey's signal tower, where someone just like my dad sent signals to other American ships nearby.
Dad is now in the Veterans home here in Walterboro, and on the days when his mind is clear, he speaks of the Orca in reverent terms, as if she was one of the family. In fact, a 19-ft cabin cruiser named Orca III, sits in the boathouse in my backyard this very minute. Because of this, perhaps I am too close to the subject to be objective, but to send the Yorktown, Laffey and Clamagore to the bottom of the sea seems nothing short of blasphemy.
Would you do the same to the U.S.S. Constitution, simply because "Old Ironsides" has outlived her service? After all, she was commissioned in 1797!
Instead of promoting the destruction of these monuments to the men who served on them, wouldn't your column be put to better use by encouraging people to donate to the preservation of these wonderful ships? After all, it was a handful of school children who began a nationwide effort in 1927 to raise money to save the Constitution?
We are losing WWII veterans at the rate of almost 1,800 per day. Some day, much sooner than I can bear to think, my father will be one of those 1,800. When that happens, I should hope that the Laffey will still be afloat, so that I can go there, and remember why my father is part of the "Greatest Generation." Thanks for listening, and you are still welcome in Walterboro any time!
Kim Miller
Subject: Ships at Patriots Point
Since the ships have become such a huge financial liability, why not explore the option of recycling. Naval engineers could determine the amount of usable steel from the ships that would be cost effective to recover. Using the recycled materials from the donor ships would then be used to lay the keel and build a new ship whose mission would be Maritime Homeland Security along our east coast. This ship would be built at the Old Navy Yard and home-ported here in Charleston. Look at the jobs this project would create. There are highly skilled craftsmen in the "Low Country" that would jump at this opportunity. A contest to name our new ship would add to the excitement and pride of accomplishment. Charleston area residents and visitors along with the citizens of South Carolina would be able to tour the ship a few times a year when it is in port.
The unused portions of the aging vessels should be used to create an off shore reef appropriately named and marked on all charts. There is an old saying: "WE GIVE HONOR TO THOSE WHO HAVE GONE BEFORE US, BY TAKING CARE OF THOSE WE HAVE NOW". What a wonderful way to pay tribute to our veterans who served on these ships, by taking the heart and soul of these vessels and continuing our proud naval heritage in the creation of this new "Fighting Lady."
Thank you,
G. Neil Paul, Sr.
Voicemails:
Ed Stencel suggested they melt down the bronze propellers, make them into tie tacks and cuff links to sell as keepsakes for profit.
Gene Geer said officials here should contact the folks who manage the USS North Carolina in Wilmington and ask if they have any secrets to share.
Tom Lawson said he used to inspect these vessels and thinks the Wilmington group ran a tighter ship, even using prisoners to do the manual labor to save money.
Dwight Agnew had the Styrofoam idea and Bill Roberts said they should fill the ships with concrete.
Russ Dean said this issue is a clarion call for these historic ships and suggests saving them is the right thing to do. He said the folks at Patriots Point should send out an SOS to save our ships. He's sending $250 to the get the ball rolling.
A.J. Tarquino said the ships should be dry-docked and have some type of epoxy added as a final coat on their hulls to preserve them.
John Jasper said in honor of all the dice and card games played on the ships by sailors and soldiers we should deed the land and vessels to the Edisto or Cherokee Indians who could partner with Harrah's to transform the Yorktown into a casino.
Elton Carrier says they had the right idea when they constructed the Submarine Cold War Memorial at Patriots Point, a dry-land exhibit with minimal upkeep.
Brian Tollison said they should reduce the admission prices to allow more people to visit the ships.
George Gundy sent a engineering diagram of how to surround the ships with an inflatable floating tube and use multi-ply vinyl sheets to encase the hulls to prevent rusting.
Hal Rose wants to pour concrete around the vessels that would also serve as a boardwalk and reception venue.
Stan Marcinkowski was just one of many who suggested building a coffer dam around the ships to float them in fresh water instead of salt water.
